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- [00:00]
A
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B
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio news. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [00:55]
C
Fascinating conversation a little bit earlier on Bloomb as David Gura spent some time with Andrew Cuomo generating the headline Democratic Party Civil War. That's how the former mayor, the former governor, I should say, is describing the mayoral race that's currently underway, a civil war, one that even President Trump has tried to get involved in to try to get somebody to drop out. Because at the moment, this four way contest favors Zoran Mamdani. And David Gura is with us now from world headquarters in New York. It's great to see you to sit down, David, and I appreciate your bringing this conversation to us because this race feels frozen in time. It does.
- [01:34]
D
And you look at the polling data, Joe, and so much of it has stayed the same. It really is kind of glacial and how it's moving. And I think that's an element of frustration for Governor Andrew Cuomo, who, you know, had a bad performance in the primary, took some time to think about his performance in that primary and sought to reinvent his campaign. But as I learned over the course of this conversation with him, a lot of the messaging is still the same. He's raising the specter here of what a Mamdani mayorality would mean for New York City. And as you laid out, there were a number of directions that we could go and obviously some questions about the policies that he prioritizes, what he hopes to put in place and how to pay for them. But really at this point in time, 40 days out from this election, I thought it was important to start with the state of play and how he sees the the path forward to victory. And I and I started off by asking him about the polling. How do you see the path forward here given the polling and sort of where things stand? I should note that the polling hasn't changed a tremendous amount in recent Weeks.
- [02:27]
E
Yeah, it will change dramatically. What you see in the polls is Mamdani is always at about 40%. That leaves 60%. As you accurately pointed out, you have a multi candidate field. So four people or three people are breaking up that 60%. I don't think you're going to wind up ultimately with that larger field. I think the field is going to collapse. I think it's going to come down to me versus Mr. Mamdani. And as I said, Mamdani has 40%. He has his very radical ideas, which are exciting to one group of the population, especially young people, but are polarizing to many other people. And I think it's going to come down to a one on one and then it is a totally different race.
- [03:17]
D
Dave, with a Republican candidate says he's not dropping out. The incumbent mayor, Eric Adams, says he's not dropping out. We've passed the ballot deadline. If we were to have a race where it's you against or Mandani, polls still show him leading you by a substantial amount. What do you see in the electorate that the data aren't showing when it comes to that particular configuration?
- [03:37]
E
Yeah, well, polls are historically wrong, especially this year, especially in New York. On your first point, you can stay in the race. First of all, technically nobody can get off the ballot, Right? The question is, are you viable in the race? And you can have people who are in the race, but the voters just think they're not really competitive, they can't win. I'm not going to waste my vote. And I think that's what happens here. I think it comes down to me and Mamdani. I think when people understand what Mamdani stands for, besides what he has said on TikTok, you know, he's anti police. This. Ban the police, legalize prostitution, legalize the drug trade, abolish jails. You know, this would be anarchy in New York. Socialism does not work in New York City. It's antithetical with a business capital. Right. We're pro business. Business is the engine that drives the train. So none of that has been communicated yet. And when it does, I can tell you the minds will change.
- [04:53]
D
Is there an effort, you and your campaign, to try to convince Eric Adams or Curtis Lewa to drop out of this race? Are there conversations that are happening behind the scenes to make what I imagine you see as a compelling case for them to step aside to make this more of a one on one race?
- [05:06]
E
No, I'm sure they're making their own decisions. Look, I've been in elections where I have dropped out because I thought it was the right thing to do. They have a decision to make. There is no apparent path to victory for them. In essence would act as a spoiler. And that's a decision they have to make. They have to make it personally and that's their business. But again, I think it's going to come down to a two person race no matter what, because that's what the polls are going to say and that is the choice. I am a Democrat. My father was a Democrat. I worked for Bill Clinton. Zoran is a socialist. They call themselves Democratic socialists. Right. Didn't support Democrats Barack Obama. Obama was a liar and evil and didn't support Kamala Harris against Trump. Right. So this is a very different. This is apples and oranges between the two of us.
- [06:13]
D
I want to ask you about some comments that Curtis Sliwa made yesterday. I'm sure you heard them. He was campaigning and suggested that you or affiliates of your campaign had reached out to him and offered him money to the tune of $10 million to drop out of this race. And I'm going to quote from what he said during that campaign event. He called these class classic Andrew Cuomo tactics. Why don't you strap up Cuomo to a lie detection machine and ask him and we'll all be blown to kingdom come because he's behind it. I don't have a polygraph machine with me here. But how do you respond to what he's alleging in those comments?
- [06:43]
E
Look, you can't. You have to take Saliba with a grain of salt, right? He is a known con man. He's lied about being victims of crime before. But it's very simple, David. When he said that someone should have said who? Who offered you the money? Let him answer the question because it would happen to be a crime, right? Who offered you money? He never said who. Which sort of tells you, right, that it's all malarkey. There was no person who did it.
- [07:25]
D
I want to ask you, last we've talked about the state of the race, where you hope that it's headed. And if we can, I'd like to look back to 1977. So ways you were 19, you were a stud at Fordham University. Your dad was making a run for mayor and you were helping out on the campaign. He didn't win the Democratic primary and decided to run on an independent line for mayor. He ended up losing that race by nine points. They say that history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. And I know that you don't Want history to repeat itself here. You'd like to win this race in a way that he wasn't able to back then, 50 years ago. I'm not the first to point out this historical parallel, but I imagine you've thought about it, and I wonder how that experience has informed your outlook on this race. There was introspection after the primaries. You didn't do as well as you wanted to do. You decided to make this run. What can you learn about that race that your dad waged, and how does that inform the way that you're running this?
- [08:15]
E
Yeah. My father was an extraordinary individual on many levels. Highly principled, frankly atypical for a politician. And he did, quote, unquote, the right thing, whatever he thought the right thing was for me. I believe in the Democratic Party. I believe in what my father stood for, what John F. Kennedy stood for and Robert F. Kennedy stood for, and Bill Clinton and what Mondami represents. And this Democratic Socialists of America, DSA Socialists, call them whatever you want, is repugnant to the Democratic Party. I know. And that's what's really going on here. This is a civil war within the Democratic Party, right, where the extreme left is pulling the Democratic Party and the moderates are afraid of the extreme left. It's the inverse of the Republican Party when they had the Tea Party, and the Tea Party was pulling the Republican moderates too far to the right because they were afraid of them in a primary. That's what's happening here. It's a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. And the Democratic Party is not anti business, it's not anti police. That's not who we are. We're not about redistributing income as a policy. Right. You tax to provide a service. You don't tax to take money from the rich to give it to the poor. Right. That's why Donald Trump calls him a communist. So this is not the Democratic Party that I believe I represent and traditionally has served this nation well. He has zero experience in the position, never managed anything. Five employees, never had a real job. And when, when you. When you're willing to consider chief executive, New York City, no management experience, ran five people. Now he's going to run 300,000 employees, $115 billion budget. You wake up any morning, you could have a terrorist attack, you could have another Covid. It just the means government and demeans public service in a way that I just find abhorrent, and I'm going to do everything I can to stop it.
- [10:58]
D
My conversation there With Andrew Cuomo, the former governor of the state of New York, mounting a campaign here for mayor in New York City. And Joe, what stood out to me a number of times is how he kind of cast himself in the mantle of being a Democrat. He said, I'm a Democrat. My father was a Democrat. I worked for Bill Clinton. You heard there at the end, him talking about Democrats, saying of Mamdani's platforms, that's not who we are. You have to just go back to the results of that primary, that Democratic primary from a few months ago, that ranked choice primary. Mamdani got 56% of the vote and Cuomo had 44%. So, yes, he's running on the independent line, but still very much associated himself with the history and the Democratic Party.
- [11:35]
C
Really interesting you brought up his dad. Does part of you think that his father would be impressed by the gains that Zoran Mamdani has made among young progressives?
- [11:47]
D
You know, I think that he might, far from me to psychoanalyze, you know, what he might have thought. But I do think that it is something that clearly is flummoxing, not just Andrew Cuomo, but the other candidates in this race. And you heard Andrew Cuomo there kind of disparaging the TikTok side of this campaign, the success that has had on social media. And yet it is still working and working so effectively for him. And again, going back to what I said before we played that interview, I expected that there would be kind of a market change in outreach and tone and platform from Governor Quo. And to be fair, he is out more. He's on the campaign trail more in and around the city talking to voters. But the way that he has set up the contrast between him and Mamdani remains the same. That is, there is an element of fear, less than hope about the direction of the city if Mamdani were to win. And I think that's something that he's, you know, he's continuing to hammer home here in these last 40 days of this campaign.
- [12:42]
C
Really interesting. Always a pleasure to have our friend David Gura with us. Thank you for the great conversation today with the former Governor David Leif in New York as we assemble our panel for their take on this and what it might mean on a grander scale at this moment for the Democratic Party. Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis is here, partner at Stone Court Capital, a Republican strategist alongside Democratic strategist. Strategist Ophiskel, director of External affairs at the Democratic Governors Association. Really interesting to hear the conversation and the language that Andrew Cuomo chose to use Mamdani's candidacy abhorrent. The competition a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. Ophira, he said your party is in a civil war. Is New York a microcosm for what's happening nationally?
- [13:25]
F
Absolutely not. I think New York and the mayor's race is about what's happening in New York. And I think New York voters were very clear that they want a leader who's going to be focused on, on making life more affordable. And what I just heard Andrew Cuomo say was that he doesn't have a lot of forward looking vision for how he's going to do that. And I know he's complaining about poll numbers, but I think voters, again, were very clear during the primary about what they want. But I also don't know that it would be helpful to be running as somebody who keeps invoking Trump if you're looking to bring the party together and show that you're going to be a fighter for New Yorkers.
- [13:58]
C
At what point do more seniors in the Democratic Party need to get behind Zoran Mamdani for this candidacy to have credibility?
- [14:07]
F
Well, I think this campaign's about what's going on in New York City. And I think Governor Hochul has been a leader on this and has been very clear she looks forward to working with him in the mayorship on, on how they can make life more affordable, keep the city safe, bring more people there. And I think a partnership with somebody in that seat is something that Governor Hochul is looking for. And again, we, I think Democrats are looking for somebody who's going to show that, that they're focused on these kitchen table issues, but also that when Trump is trying to come after New Yorkers and their freedoms, that they're a voice that's willing to stand up and fight. And I don't know that we're seeing a lot of that from Andrew Cuomo right now.
- [14:40]
C
Interesting. Rick, you've run a lot of campaigns in your career. There's a Suffolk University City View poll shows Mamdani leading Cuomo by 20 percentage points. Do you believe the landscape as the pollsters are calling it?
- [14:55]
G
Yeah, even, even Cuomo said that, you know, he was talking about Mondami having 40%, which means he probably does have 45%. And, and I thought what was really interesting in that Suffolk poll is he has a above majority over 50% of Hispanics, Asians, African Americans. I mean, like the basis of the New York Democratic Party is their resilience with diversity. And Cuomo is Not getting any of that. When you look at his growth, you know, since he became an independent and said I'm going to be the guy that beats Mondame, he hasn't really grown at all. And so if you, if you were to believe his pitch, you know that there's 60% standing out there and I can get, you know, the majority of that, then he better start going. The election's a little over a month away and he has yet to grow a bit. So I really don't understand even the messaging, but let's just leave it at that. That polling looks extremely strong. I think this race is pretty much over and we'll see where we go from there.
- [16:02]
C
Well, that would be the end of his political career, would it not?
- [16:05]
F
Far be. I know what they called before I do next.
- [16:08]
C
By the way, President Trump has become somewhat invested in this, calling on certain candidates to drop out. Eric Adams, Curtis Sliwa. If there was a head to head here, though the polls still show Mamdani as the next mayor of New York.
- [16:21]
F
Well, I think he again has been echoing for what New Yorkers are looking for. He's showing a vision for how he can work on a lot of the issues that people say they want to see Democrats make progress on. And I think we hear time and time again, affordability, affordability, affordability. And I think he's really excited people in New York with that and they're looking for somebody who's going to drive progress forward on that. And I think again he's exciting people like Rick said, you know, all across the base. I think that's a good thing and we want to see more of that.
- [16:48]
C
Obviously it's interesting Trump's involvement in this case Rick, because he talks about Mamdani so often that you'd think he wants the so called communist, even though he is a democratic socialist, at least self labeled, to be there for him as a foil for the next three and a half years. What do you think Trump, Trump's motivations are when it comes to the New York mayoral race? Is he looking at this as a New Yorker or as a national Republican political figure?
- [17:14]
G
Well, I would say for the record, I have no idea what motivates Donald Trump. That being said, what we do know is that he has a substantial business investment, including his own image of being a successful New York businessman in New York City. Right. And this could have an impact, impact on, on the businesses and the activities that he's been involved in his entire life in New York City. I know there are a Lot of real estate developers in New York City, him included, probably, who are very fearful of this, this. This Mandami as mayor. That being said, you're right. On the other hand, to be able to see the rising star of the Democratic Party being an avowed socialist who as, as, as, as Andrew Cuomo said very articulately on our show just now wants to redistribute income is a very hard thing to stomach if you're a Democrat running for reelection in 2026. So Donald Trump will make good use of that. I would doubt there are very many candidates outside of the city of New York who are going to include any of the Mandami platforms in their reelection campaigns in Congress for 2026.
- [18:30]
F
Hmm.
- [18:31]
C
Is that why Hakeem Jeffries has not endorsed the Democratic nominee?
- [18:35]
F
I mean, I can't speak to Leader Jeffries, but I do think that the. That Zoran Mandemi is running a campaign that, again, is really focused on issues that I think a lot of Democrats are talking about right now, how we can lower costs for the American people, and we don't all have to agree on everything. I think that's the nice thing about being Democrats. Democrats, it's a big tent. But I think where we're showing a real contrast is, again, that we're laser focused on how we can make life more affordable. People, keep them safe, put money back in their pockets, and not hear a lot of that from Republicans on the other side.
- [19:03]
C
Well, you know, maybe that endorsement doesn't matter. You look at these numbers, Rick Davis seems to think this thing's already baked. Does the Democratic leader in Congress matter in a New York mayoral race? Granted, he's from New York.
- [19:14]
F
Well, I think these races tend to come down to local issues and again, local leaders and I think think so. Orrin has really distinguished himself in the field as somebody who is focused on how he can make life better for New Yorkers. And I think Governor Hochul jumped in and endorsed him because she's looking for a partner she can work with as governor and make sure we're uniting the party on what really matters, how we can lower costs for people, but also stand up against the president and the actions he takes that hurt.
- [19:37]
C
This is fascinating to Rick's point. It's almost time to vote in New York. I'm really glad that you could both weigh in on this. And a great conversation. David Gura brought us with Andrew Cuomo of area. Haskell, thank you as always. Democratic Governors association, of course. Our friend Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor and Republican strategist partner at Stone Core Capital. Thank you so much for the great conversation. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. We've got another good one coming up for you. Chris Sununu is going to sit down with us. The former governor of New Hampshire is on to the next chapter of his career, but he's still talking politics and he's going to be with us coming up next. Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this.
- [20:16]
B
Hiscock Small Business Insurance knows there is no business like your business. Across America, over 600,000 small businesses, from accountants and architects to photographers and yoga instructors, look to Hiscox Insurance for protection. Find flexible coverage that adapts to the needs of your small business with a fast, easy online'@hiscox.com that's his c o x.com there's no business like small business. Hiscox Small Business Insurance. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa.
- [21:02]
F
Play Bloomberg.
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C
Alex.
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B
11:30.
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C
We've covered a lot of ground this hour, already ticked our way through a possible government shutdown. The better than expected economic data we saw this morning, the New York mayoral race. And we get to cook it all down with an old voice on the show, a friend of the program who has entered a new chapter in his career. I don't know if I can even call it a political career anymore. The former mayor. Republican mayor.
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A
Mayor. We're doing mayor. I've been demoted.
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C
I just had a mayor with.
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D
The.
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C
Former governor of the great state of New Hampshire, the live free or die state. Chris Sununu, great to see you back.
- [21:40]
A
To see you.
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C
You're not here as a senator or a congressman. You came back to Washington as the CEO of Airlines for America, which is the big trade group for the industry. You and I have talked a bunch about why you're not already down here seeking national office or something beyond being governor. And you always had a pretty good answer because he didn't think he'd get a lot done here. What are you going to get done on this job?
- [22:02]
A
Well, that's the excitement of it. I mean, when folks first said, hey, come to airlines American, I said, well, the trade association Washington, you know, where's the connection with being governor? But the fact that you're looking at rebuilding the air traffic control system of America, which is Desperately needed. I mean, 30 years of antiquated technology, and for the first time ever, you have an administration that is making it top priority. Secretary Duffy at Transportation, Brian, who's now running the faa, this great guy used to be the CEO of Republic Air Lines. People that are really have hands on, on the ground experience. I thought this could be done. This could actually be a win for not just Washington, but for the country in terms of safety, a strategic asset. And it's the airlines. And you have. I mean, I'm not, I'm not just saying this. The CEOs of the airline industry right now are amazing. These are some of the best CEOs in the country. They are mission focused. They deal with all these strains, international and domestic, and they all want the same thing. They're all rowing in that same direction to make sure that this system gets revitalized for the safety of the country.
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C
It's a national security asset. To your point earlier, Governor, I have a couple of questions for you about this, and I want to get into the toy department with you a little bit because you must have an amazing shopping list on how exactly we're going to build all of this out. But here we are again on the verge of a possible government shutdown. It does appear that there's a carve out for the air traffic control system, and we would expect that. But would it mean other disruptions or problems for the industry?
- [23:23]
A
It'll be a strain. So a couple of things. Number one, the airlines still stay in the air, right? TSA that does all the security. The faa, which basically makes sure that the planes are landing safely and on time. Those are all deemed essential workers, those folks come to work. So the planes will be there. Now, will the system be strained as it is often with these shutdowns? Absolutely. And that's where we ask for people just to take your time, be a little more patient, give yourself a little extra time. But the planes will get, will get there.
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C
Manpower. Do you know, not everybody gets to work. Or they're all working.
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A
They're all working, but they're working without pay. Okay, they're working without pay. And so that's a lot to ask.
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C
TSA air traffic controllers, everybody you encounter.
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A
Or at the airport, hundreds of thousands of workers that make sure that they all are asked to come to work day after day. And so that's why a short look, a short shutdown can be managed pretty, pretty well. The longer it goes, as you would expect, more days, more weeks, whatever potential might be that just really exponentially increases the strain on the system, the system doesn't shut down, but it will get strained. And so that's where, you know, we're fighting hard to not have the shutdown. We're fighting hard for folks up on the Hill here to understand what those repercussions are. Because, because there could be a potential carve out for, for the tsa. But what is likely going to happen is all these new things that are just happening. 12 and a half billion dollars allocated. It all gets, comes to a screeching halt. The new, the new simulators they want to buy for FAA because we need more manpower in those control towers. We want to train people more, we want to get those certifications going. All that comes to a screeching halt. Some of the new technologies that are going to be implemented, everyone has to basically take a pause. Pause until the system is turned back on again. So, you know, again, I've seen Washington, we've all seen Washington fail time and time again. But when you're talking air traffic control reform, this thing is moving. It's really exciting. You know, Senator Cruz has been an absolute leader. Senator Collins, Susan Collins of Maine, a leader. Congressman Graves just absolutely gets it. Everyone's pushing hard. No one's accepting failure, which is what makes it exciting and what makes the potential shutdown really scary.
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F
Scary.
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C
Well, it is scary when you frame it like that. Let's talk about resources. You don't have enough money to do this all now. Right. Congress is going to have to have a couple of layers, I presume, of funding approvals. You have the President behind you. Yes, we did talk to Senator Cruz about what would be involved here. This is a massive, this would be an unprecedented undertaking to essentially rebuild the American air traffic control system. The President talks about copper going into fiber going into ip. It's a Frankenstein looking system. Now how long would it take to rebuild?
- [25:55]
A
Great question. So first let's you hit it right on the head. It's a bit of a Frankenstein patchwork system with floppy disks and copper landlines for communication. And that's really what it is. More than anything. It's a communication system between the planes. Planes to ground, ground to ground, more than anything. And so when you're talking about the epitome of safety with folks in the air, that's where it gets scary. And obviously lastly, the tragedy that happened last January was, I mean it was incredibly severe that everyone in this town and across the country stood up and said, yeah, this should have been done literally 30 years ago. Let's go, let's get it together now. How long will it take? It'll take a few years. Congress has allocated 12.5 billion. That's a good chunk of change. But when you're talking about the most technologically advanced overhaul system that this project, this country's ever seen seen, it's going to take a lot more than that. But we've kind of outlined what are the quick wins. Let's get the copper, old fashioned copper out of the ground and put fiber in the ground so these towers can talk to each other. Let's upgrade the, like I said, the, the simulators, the opportunities to bring more people, younger people, new, new workers into the faa, into those control towers. So you have the redundancy. Those are easy and short wins that the secretary understands, that the FAA understands, understands, and that we think are going to be undertaken pretty quickly.
- [27:11]
C
So you get that done. That's, I guess, the low hanging fruit. Do you essentially then end up building a tandem system? It's like building the other Cape Cod bridge and then eventually you just move everybody over to the new one, or does it actually have to be integrated into the existing system?
- [27:23]
A
It would be great to build a whole new system and turn the old one off and the new one. You can't do that. And it'd be great to do it nationally all at once. You just can't do that. So what I think the way they're going to go about it, they're going to bring what they call an integrator, kind of an overseer, if you will, of the prize. Sometimes that doesn't go well. Right. So they, so the fact is, Secretary Duffy knows there's got to be accountability in that, there's got to be standards. To your point, there's got to be a schedule that has to be kept because the President's behind it and he's behind it very loudly. So anyone that comes on board and isn't achieving those goals, they're going to be held to a very loud and public standard. Like, this is not Washington as usual, which is awesome. This is, you know, when I came, I only came down here about not even a month ago. And I told everybody, I said, I look, Washington is moving faster than ever because of President Trump and this administration. So if you're going to keep moving at Washington pace, it ain't going to work. Yeah, we got to not just keep up, but we got to, you know, sprint just to keep, just to keep pace with these guys. But the team is there to do it, which is really exciting. Okay, so what's going to happen is they're going to look at it, I think regionally and kind of three or four major pieces of the system that get overhauled and patchworked in and replaced one at a time.
- [28:29]
C
Boy, fascinating.
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A
Yeah.
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C
I don't know the price tag on this, but this is a Congress that can. We can't even keep the lights on, it looks like by the time we get to next Wednesday. Do you trust lawmakers with coming up with the money or do you have other sources of funding?
- [28:41]
A
So I believe that the additional sources of funding will be there if and when we achieve those results.
- [28:46]
C
I see.
- [28:46]
A
What I've said is get these three or four wins, show Congress it's a win, show some progress, show that it's working. And when you do that, as a governor, I can tell you we did it in New Hampshire. The legislature says, oh, okay, it's working. There's accountability, there's standards. This isn't just a black hole of money money. We're getting something, a return on our investment. The system's getting safer. Our Americans are getting where there's better customer service on the front back end or sometimes the side you don't see, which is just making sure that plane lands safely on time, gets to your gate and folks have confidence in the system.
- [29:15]
C
Really interesting.
- [29:15]
A
When all those pieces come together, I have no doubt that Congress will take further actions and again keep that investment coming to make sure that this system is built out to fruition, not just piecemeal, not just we tried something, it didn't work. Work failure really isn't an option given the level of safety that we're talking.
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C
You sound like you've been in this business your whole.
- [29:32]
A
I love it. I don't know. It's been two weeks. I'm having a ball. I really am. I love the people I work with. I love the, the projects. And there's other challenges too. It's not just air traffic control. Right. There's all these other challenges that the airlines deal with on a day to day basis. But here in Washington, whether it's some other technology, technology issues, some policy, you know, they're going after deregulation hard. That's no secret around here, which is awesome.
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F
Awesome.
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A
The previous administration was really tough.
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C
They really over regulation mean for the.
- [29:56]
A
Airline business, it means getting rid of all the. Look, there was basically so much regulation put on in the last four years with the previous administration where basically they had to do drastically less flights. They had to find ways to fit more people on planes, crowd them in less flights per day. That was the mandate. Just, you know, do less flights. We want more flights because.
- [30:15]
C
Because of the number of hours pilots can fly, or was it a number of factors?
- [30:19]
A
I think there were some environmental issues, and those are very important issues. The industry has taken a lead on sustainable aviation fuel. They're putting hundreds of millions of dollars of their own money into new technologies on sustainable, clean energy, clean aviation fuel, which is awesome. We're not just saying, hey, government, you do it. Sure, the industry's taking the lead, so it's very exciting. But the previous administration was pretty tough. But now that it's not that the regulations are just off, they're more streamlined to make sure it's a better customer service and a safer. A safer system as a whole.
- [30:47]
C
Your industry is not only a national security asset, it's also an economic indicator. Remember the old. As goes gm, so goes the nation.
- [30:54]
A
That's right.
- [30:55]
C
As goes the airline business. Right. You have a better sense on how many seats you're filling, on how many planes you need to have in the air of where this economy is going. And there's a big conversation in Washington right now. Are we slowing down? There's some weakness in the job market. There's a lot of noise with tariffs. Canadians don't want to come to New Hampshire anymore. When you add all of this up.
- [31:13]
A
Or maybe they don't want to come to Massachusetts, but.
- [31:17]
C
It'S Vermont. But you know what I'm saying. Are we on a trajectory of growth right now or are we at the beginning of a slowdown?
- [31:22]
A
It's growth. There's no question. So a couple really interesting metrics that I didn't even know since for the. Over the last five or six years, the average price of an airline ticket in this country is down.
- [31:34]
C
No kidding.
- [31:34]
A
It's not. It's not just up a little bit where everything, you know, inflation has taken everything 25% up call. The competition that has happened has, you know, forced a more options consumer. You can buy a much cheaper ticket if you want. You can decide not to take baggage or take baggage. You can design your own experience on the plane at a much cheaper price.
- [31:52]
C
So you're less at the whim of the economy. Is that your point?
- [31:56]
A
No. It's because the competition is so strong. It's a great argument that why free markets work. And when they compete, the prices have come down. Where the opportunity really is on that international market. I think what the president has done with most of the general agreements agreements is make sure that it's A zero for zero tariff issue on the airlines and specifically on the manufacturers in the, in the parts. So at least with the, with the European Union, that was a big one, a big win for them. I mean we got to codify it as all these tariff deals have to be ultimately codified. Yeah, but that was a huge win there in terms of making sure that the tariff issue isn't going to somehow inflate prices or cause some sort of strain. Like I said, I was just shocked to learn that competition. Do you know anything else in America that has come down in price in five years? I literally can't think of.
- [32:43]
C
And they still seem kind of expensive, I have to admit, which is why I'm amazed to hear that.
- [32:47]
A
But again, but they're not. I mean there's this, this idea that. Oh, there's the prices are screaming high I think because they, they allow you to develop your own experience. So if you want to take an extra bag or whatever, you pay a little more here. But that base price of a ticket has gone down about 2 or 3% over the last few years, which is. Which means more families can afford whether it's for vacationing or traveling. You know, we didn't touch upon something here. What's coming up? The holidays. So when you talk about government shutdown and putting a strain on the system, I don't know about you. What do you do for Thanksgiving? Do you go. Do you stay at home? Do Christmas? Do you travel? What do you do?
- [33:19]
C
I try to go home. Yeah, you try to go home, but I'm usually driving because it's. And then I end up taking 10 hours to get to New England.
- [33:25]
A
So many millions of dollars.
- [33:26]
C
Can you get me home this year?
- [33:27]
A
Can I get you home this year to New England? Well, everyone's loving the airline, so they're flying. If we stay open, if there's no shutdown, I'll do what I can to.
- [33:35]
C
When do we get a supersonic? When do we get a Concorde for the few. When's the supersonic jet going to be part of that was fleet that would be that you're now helping to run?
- [33:43]
A
I don't know but I'm going to make that the next.
- [33:45]
C
We're going to get on an air.
- [33:46]
A
Travel taken care of.
- [33:48]
C
Yeah.
- [33:48]
A
Then we'll work on the super.
- [33:49]
C
Technology is a big part of your industry here, obviously. And the CEOs that you mentioned are using it to improve things a lot. Forget the planes for a minute. When does AI become a factor or is it already in the call Centers.
- [34:01]
A
At the airline sense AI is already in place. I mean, ise in place almost everywhere. So whether it's call centers, whether it's helping with dynamic pricing, whether it's making sure that you can create, like I said, create your own package and model, whether you want a nonstop flight, whether you want to stop in Des Moines, whether you want to take an extra bag, whether you want just to sit in the back, sit in the front, have extra legroom, whatever it is, you're kind of designing your own system. And I does that helps with a lot of that dynamic pricing, which has kept the competition and the prices look low. When we're talking about air traffic control, of course air is going to come into play. The robots aren't landing airplanes. Don't let's not make any mistake about that.
- [34:35]
C
But having balls and strikes, but having.
- [34:38]
A
A backup system that says, you know what the weather in Los Angeles and we have a flight leaving Des Moines, but that could affect this connecting flight out of Miami. And in real time, crunch all that data to say, hey, the incoming flight from Chicago to Boston, let's, let's get that out of the gate a little faster.
- [34:53]
C
You're getting the data from the government that you need on that front front.
- [34:56]
A
The airlines work very closely and it's not just with the government. I mean, they've made such huge investments in their own data. Yeah, their own data. Their own. When it comes to weather specifically. And when the FAA gets, you know, when the real bulk of the rebuild of the, of the air traffic control system comes underway, obviously, again, I won't necessarily be on the front end, but the back end as a kind of a redundancy, a back check system in a variety of different ways just to make sure that folks to are going getting from A to B faster, safer and with confidence.
- [35:24]
C
You get to fly free.
- [35:25]
A
Now, do I fly for. Yeah, I, I do. I fly for free.
- [35:30]
C
I don't think you'd answer it.
- [35:30]
D
I don't.
- [35:31]
A
I, I haven't flown. I just really job two weeks ago.
- [35:33]
C
Oh, man.
- [35:34]
A
Let's go down the airport.
- [35:35]
C
Let's go to national. We'll go to Vegas.
- [35:36]
A
I'll find out if I fly for free and I will let you know when I come back in. In a week.
- [35:39]
C
All right, fantastic. Please do come back. It's great to see you. I'm happy to see you now I'm right up the road. We're neighbors.
- [35:44]
A
Yeah. This is, you know, I used to be a cynic about this town, but now I'm like wreck I love the swamp. I love it. This is. This is my swamp now and I'm loving it here.
- [35:51]
C
I love that as well. Chris Sununu, the former governor. Yes, governor of New Hampshire. What a great opportunity to catch up on things without the pressure of elected office. He's the new CEO of Airlines for America. Of course. Former Republican governor. You never know who you're going to bump into around here. We're going to have to make this a regular thing. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, D.C. at noontime eastern@bloomberg.com running small and medium sized businesses is hard work. Business owners need to be sure that their ads are working just as hard as they do. Amazon Streaming TV ads helps put small and medium businesses front and center on premium content and shows that people are already watching. With Amazon ads, you don't have to sacrifice relevance for reach. Trillions of browsing, shopping and streaming insights help you reach the right audience, and measurement tools show you what's working the hardest to help you optimize your campaign in real time. Gain the edge with Amazon ads Hiscock.
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B
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