DOJ Faces Deadline to Release Epstein Files

Summary

Bloomberg "Balance of Power" – DOJ Faces Deadline to Release Epstein Files

Date: December 19, 2025
Hosts: Joe Mathieu, Kailey Leinz
Key Guests: Sarah Kristoff (Legal Expert), Jeannie Shan Zaino (Democratic Analyst), Lisa Camuso Miller (Republican Strategist)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) impending legal deadline to release investigative files pertaining to Jeffrey Epstein, as mandated by recent legislation. Hosts Joe Mathieu and guests examine both the political and legal maneuvering around the deadline, the potential fallout of the file release—or delay thereof—on the White House and Congress, and what the public and press should expect from the documents. The episode features in-depth legal analysis, political context, and reflections on the continuing impact for Epstein’s victims, all unfolding with high anticipation in Washington D.C.

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Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Political Backdrop: White House Refocuses on Domestic Issues

Key Points:

• The episode opens with a discussion of President Trump’s planned speech emphasizing affordability, drug pricing deals (e.g., with Pfizer, Lilly, AbbVie, Bristol Myers, Gilead, Merck), and the administration’s efforts to regain voter trust on economic issues (01:04–04:43).
• The White House is also actively pivoting from weeks dominated by foreign policy crises to more voter-friendly domestic issues, anticipating the political impact of the Epstein files (04:43–04:55).

Quote:
“The rest of the prices we’re paying remain pretty stubborn. What’s he going to say about this today?”
— Joe Mathieu (01:04)

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2. The DOJ’s Deadline and Legal Loopholes

Key Points:

• Congress passed a law mandating the DOJ to release all unclassified investigative materials on Epstein by midnight, but Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch signaled that only some “hundreds of thousands” of records would be released on time (05:16–07:13).
• No real enforcement mechanism exists if deadlines are missed, and officials cite legal carve-outs to withhold info (ongoing investigations, survivor protections, national security) (06:33–07:13).

Quote:
“There are so many files that ultimately have to come out… we probably aren’t going to get them all today. And, you know, you’ve been talking about this. There’s no enforcement mechanism to make sure that they do all come out, though it did seem that the administration was indicating that they’re going to.”
— Political Correspondent (05:16)

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3. Legal Analysis: Is the DOJ Breaking the Law?

Guest: Sarah Kristoff, Partner at Cozen O’Connor, Former Federal Prosecutor
Key Points:

• The DOJ will be “clearly not going to fully comply here” with the law as written, partly because of the daunting volume of documents and absence of penalties for noncompliance (08:33–10:12).
• While criminal prosecution is unlikely under the current administration, civil cases or future prosecutions could arise if a new DOJ leads enforcement (10:12–11:37).
• The potential exists for sweeping redactions, meaning new or meaningful revelations may be sparse, and Congress retains certain methods of pushing back, such as impeachment or civil action (11:37–12:45).

Quotes:
“They’re clearly not going to fully comply here. And I encourage everyone to actually just read this law... It really helps you understand what Congress has mandated here.”
— Sarah Kristoff (08:33)

“What is going to happen to them if they are not compliant with this or sort of timely with their obligations under this law? Not that much, probably.”
— Sarah Kristoff (09:05)

“...There is this, this idea floating out there, an interesting idea, that there could be some sort of criminal prosecution down the line, but that would require, you know, clearly the DOJ is not going to bring charges against itself or its own representative.” — Sarah Kristoff (10:44)

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4. What’s in the Files? What Should Reporters and Public Look For?

Key Points:

• Best place to seek substantive content: FBI 302s (interview reports), which outline the witnesses interviewed and investigative scope (13:03–13:40).
• The law specifically bars redaction solely to avoid reputational harm—a unique and potentially controversial facet of this mandated release (14:06–14:22).
• Many individuals could be swept into public scandal by mere association, regardless of involvement, due to broad investigative materials (14:22–15:16).

Quote:
“Some of the most interesting information is going to come in the FBI 3 or 2s…essentially reports that the agents prepare…The 302s are probably the best starting place for anyone looking at this information to really get a sense of the scope of the investigation…”
— Sarah Kristoff (13:03)

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5. The Notorious ‘Client List’ and Public Expectations

Key Points:

• Despite public speculation and occasional inflammatory statements by politicians, experts doubt a singular “client list” exists, suggesting a more complex task ahead for those sifting receipts, logs, and correspondence (15:16–15:58).

Quote:
“I don’t think we’re going to see anything like that. I mean, and I think if that, if some sort of very delineated list was there, we would have known about it before this point.”
— Sarah Kristoff (15:33)

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6. Political and Human Fallout: The Victims and Congressional Maneuvering

Guests: Jeannie Shan Zaino (Democratic Analyst), Lisa Camuso Miller (Republican Strategist)
Key Points:

• The numerous exceptions and lack of clear timeline are causing anguish among Epstein’s many victims, who have been repeatedly traumatized by the slow drip of information and intense public scrutiny (17:53–19:13).
• Vulnerable members of Congress lack preparation or messaging strategy, potentially creating more confusion amongst the political class and public (19:46–21:03).
• Both panelists highlight “heroes” among victims and pushy reporters, but also criticize elected officials from both sides for lack of support and slow action (21:10–22:37).

Notable Quotes:
“The thousand or more women who at that point were children in many cases, who were victimized by the most powerful men in the world…have continued to be victimized by this process.”
— Jeannie Shan Zaino (17:53)

“There will be questions, there will be no answers, and it’ll be a lot more confusion first for an issue that really, really deserves to be settled and solved and resolved.”
— Lisa Camuso Miller (19:46)

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7. Friday Night News Dump and Future Fallout

Key Points:

• The timing—files due as the President holds a rally in North Carolina—suggests a classic “Friday night news dump,” likely meant to minimize political splash but in fact creating a weekend of media frenzy (24:57–26:23).
• Panelists expect limited revelations and high disappointment, predicting a “great big buildup to a great big nothing” unless transparency prevails (23:25–24:57, 26:57–27:24).

Quote:
“It feels to me like this is going to be a lot of waiting and a lot of anticipating for something that ultimately will not reveal enough information for some actual stories to hit. And so, maybe I am the Cynic of Washington, DC today, but I don’t expect this to be as explosive…”
— Lisa Camuso Miller (23:25)

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Additional Noteworthy Segments

• Political Impact on Congressional Leadership: The discharge petition that forced the file release bill to a vote was spearheaded by rank-and-file members, with Speaker Mike Johnson ultimately pushed to support after initial resistance. This dynamic highlights intraparty strains and MAGA pressure (22:37–23:25).
• Market Update: Briefly addresses the day’s significant options expiration and “Trump trade” influence on markets, but is clearly a secondary subject (28:52–33:02).

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Timestamps for Major Topics

| Segment | Description | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |----------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|-----------------------| | White House pivots to domestic focus | President’s economic messaging, drug pricing | 01:04–04:43 | | Legal requirements for Epstein files | DOJ’s looming deadline, legal carve-outs | 05:16–07:13 | | Legal analysis of DOJ actions | Compliance, potential future enforcement | 08:33–12:45 | | What to look for in the documents | Investigative files,, redactions, 302s | 13:03–15:16 | | Expectations and the “client list” | What will/ won’t be found | 15:16–15:58 | | Impact on victims, political fallout | Victims’ perspectives, Congressional reaction | 17:53–22:37 | | “Friday night news dump” dynamics | Timing of the release, political calculus | 24:57–26:23 |

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Tone & Observations

• The tone is urgent, skeptical, and sympathetic towards Epstein’s victims, reflecting the high tension surrounding the pending release.
• Legal experts maintain a candid, somewhat cynical view of the government’s compliance, while political analysts voice frustration over the lack of transparency and support for victims.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “They’re clearly not going to fully comply here.” — Sarah Kristoff (08:33)
• “This will be a great big buildup to a great big nothing when it all comes to be in the light of day.” — Lisa Camuso Miller (23:25)
• “The thousand or more women who... were victimized by the most powerful men in the world... have continued to be victimized by this process.” — Jeannie Shan Zaino (17:53)
• “We probably aren't going to get them all today. And, you know, you've been talking about this. There's no enforcement mechanism to make sure they do all come out...” — Political Correspondent (05:16)
• “If they had wanted to get it done, they certainly could have.” — Sarah Kristoff (09:05)

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode of Balance of Power gives a comprehensive breakdown of the legal and political drama surrounding the anticipated—but partial—release of Jeffrey Epstein investigation files. Listeners are taken through the key legal ambiguities, political calculations, the deep anxieties of victims, and expert predictions on the likely anticlimax of the event. The episode leaves listeners with a critical understanding of both the scope and limitations of the DOJ's actions, Congressional motivations, and the enduring struggles for truth and closure for Epstein's victims.

Transcript

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[Joe]

In a short time, the President will be, as I mentioned, making an announcement from the White House. And that's where we start with Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall, because these really are all the same story. Tyler when the President talks about affordability, he frequently points to drug prices with deals with the likes of Pfizer and Lilly, this most favored nation status that that they're receiving, as well as gas prices. The rest of the prices we're paying remain pretty stubborn. What's he going to say about this today?

[Political Correspondent]

Right, exactly. It's no surprise that this event is happening to cap off a week where we really saw the White House try to refocus on the economy, retool that narrative amid what has been consistent polling showing that President Trump is losing ground when it comes to Americans confidence in him in his handling of the economy. We were talking about this last hour on this program, but you spoke earlier this week with Cliff Young of Ipsos, and he had a new poll out this week being cited widely that shows that Americans approval of President Trump has now slipped to 39%. But really importantly, it's showing that his support among Republicans is eroding. And that's why you're seeing the White House really go out this week with a slew of initiatives, his primetime speech and now this event on drug pricing. According to the White House press secretary, that's what this is going to focus on, lowering the cost of pharmaceuticals. There was some reporting out earlier today from Reuters that named those companies that could be here for a potential deal at the White House, including AbbVie, Bristol Myers, Gilead and Merck. As you mentioned President Trump had signed that executive order in May urging the administration to negotiate on most favored nation drug pricing, essentially alleging that there are unfair trade practices here, that these companies are giving better rates to other countries. And the understanding has consistently been that if they can bring down the pricing, then these companies are ultimately going to get a tariff reprieve from the administration.

[Joe]

Interesting. So he'll have something potentially new to talk about in North Carolina tonight. What's the plan is going to Rocky Mount is stumping as well as campaigning.

[Political Correspondent]

Well, and you know what's important about this area in North Carolina? This is North Carolina's 1st congressional district. It was newly redrawn. These are new maps in North Carolina. And this district had historically gone to Democrats, but now it looks like it will lean Republican. So it feels like we are so long away from next November. But everything really does have to do with the midterms. This is all about campaigning and reaching out to the voters in this area in a critical battleground ground state now in a critical battleground district potentially.

[Joe]

But he's going for Whatley. Right. Michael Whatley is running for Senate and that that's why they chose North Carolina. Beyond it its importance on the map in general.

[Political Correspondent]

Right, Exactly. This is going to be about down ballot races because even though President Trump himself isn't on the ballot, this has a lot to do with his agenda going forward and whether or not he can get through initiatives like we saw him get through this year if Republicans don't maintain both chambers of Congress. But you're exactly right. This is the second stop in what's expected to be a domestic tour around the country on the issue of affordability. And that's really where the White House has tried to refocus the conversation. We were talking about it earlier, but in just the last 24 hours, Bloomberg News has a great story out on the terminal looking into just the list of policy initiatives released in the last 24, 48 hours. Right. Those checks that are going to service members some gains for the cannabis industry making the days around the Christmas holiday federal holidays. There has been this retooling to talk about domestic policy amid what has been recent weeks really focused on foreign policy.

[Financial Analyst]

Right.

[Political Correspondent]

We started this show for weeks talking about the US Venezuela tensions ratcheting up, what's happening with the talks in Ukraine. And it does appear that the administration wants to shift that narrative.

[Joe]

Really something. It's a late speech, 9pm Eastern time. And it's kind of interesting the way this is all going to pan out. And we're going to talk about this in just a moment here with Sarah Kristoff. But it's Epstein Day. The files are supposed to drop. We don't know when. Right. But the DOJ has until midnight. So presumably the president could be on stage in North Carolina when this happens.

[Political Correspondent]

Right. And there seems to be an understanding that they may come later in the day to go up against Friday news, drop against the deadline. And we did hear from the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanch, earlier who said that there are so many fil ultimately have to come out, we probably aren't going to get them all today. And, you know, you've been talking about this. There's no enforcement mechanism to make sure that they do all come out, though it did seem that the administration was indicating that they're going to. And of course, this comes after Congress overwhelmingly passed that bill last month compelling the DOJ to release all of these items. We should say it requires the release of unclassified investigative records, flight logs, travel documents, immunity deals, internal department communications and papers. The list is really long here. But of course, it poses a political headwind for President Trump that he hasn't really been able to get ahead of. And that's been dominating the conversation over the summer, for example. So we'll see how that sort of pairs with him trying to talk about the issue at hand, which is the economy.

[Joe]

Well, it's pretty amazing to hear from Todd Blanch, deputy attorney general, telling Fox News that they will miss the deadline. We'll get hundreds of thousands today, but there will still be hundreds of thousands to be released. So they're not going to get this all done as mandated by law?

[Democratic Analyst Jeannie Shan Zaino]

No.

[Political Correspondent]

And one of the other questions here is, of course, how the DOJ is going to invoke some of those exceptions. We know that there's exceptions to protect survivors. There's also exceptions here that officials can withhold any information if it's related to an ongoing investigation, which could be complicated by the fact that President Trump did direct the DOJ to launch investigations into alleged ties between Epson and prominent Democrats. So maybe that could also impact the amount of files that we ultimately end up getting. At this point, we just don't know. It's wait and see. But as you said, the deputy attorney general saying that we will get, quote, several hundred thousand documents today. It's going to take us a while to go through, no doubt.

[Joe]

Stay with us. On balance of power. We'll have much more coming up after this.

[Republican Strategist Lisa Camuso Miller]

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[Podcast Host]

To the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30.

[Joe]

We want to stick with the idea of the Epstein files being released, at least some of them today. Sarah Kristoff is partner at Cozen o' Connor and former federal prosecutor with the Southern District of New York and joins us now live on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Sarah, it's great to have you back. I'm looking at the actual language in the law that President Trump signed into law. Quote, all unclassified records, documents, communications and investigative materials related to Epstein in a searchable and downloadable format must be prepared by the end of the day. So is the administration about to break the law?

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

They're clearly not going to fully comply here. And I encourage everyone to actually just read this law. I mean, it's it only takes a few minutes, it's short, it's a couple pages. But it really helps you understand what Congress has mandated here and will help people evaluate whether or not the DOJ is compliant with what they are required to do.

[Joe]

So was this just a matter of not getting homework done on time, or would that have been impossible, knowing that it is truly hundreds of thousands of documents we're talking about?

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

I mean, there's a couple of things going on here, right? I mean, first of all, lawyers are not particularly known for their timeliness. So it is not infrequent that lawyers are later or running behind on a deadline. So that is sort of one thing that to consider here. The other thing is that the DOJ knows there's no real enforcement mechanism here. What is going to happen to them if they are not compliant with this or sort of timely with their obligations under this law? Not that much, probably. And so did they make a good faith effort to get documents together in order to release them today? Maybe it sounds like it, but you know, it is a process is certainly to the DOJ's credit. And it does take a lot of work to comb through these documents page by page to make to assess redactions. But they have an enormous workforce to get that done. So if they had wanted to get it done, they certainly could have.

[Joe]

Okay. With that said There's a big question about enforcement or lack thereof. Ro Khanna was talking about this. The Democrat from California, one of the co sponsors of the discharge petition, said that while the department would be breaking the law, as we've just established here, if it didn't meet the deadline, officials would be unlikely to be prosecuted during the current administration. They would likely be subject to prosecution in the future. So could Todd Blanche find himself in trouble in three years?

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

Yeah, it's certainly possible. I mean, the. There are some avenues for enforcement here apart from sort of criminal prosecution. There could be. The Congress could bring a civil case. Individual individuals could bring a civil case. There could be sort of formal complaints lodged against the OJ Although those are likely not going anywhere. But there are certain sort of some processes that could be followed short of a criminal case. But there is this, this idea floating out there, an interesting idea that there could be some sort of criminal prosecution down the line, but that would require, you know, clearly the DOJ is not going to bring charges against itself or its own representative. So that's going to be something that would happen down the line with a different administration and the DOJ run by different folks.

[Joe]

Well, you know, when you consider this lack of enforcement, the political interests of the administration here and the idea that they can essentially redact anything they want, we might not see anything new today or ever. Right?

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

Yeah. I mean, there are, I guess, you know, there are other processes that Congress has to, to bring action against individuals that they think have violated the law. Right. They have impeachment processes that they utilize. So, I mean, there are other avenues they use. But I mean, I think, you know, we have been waiting very patiently to see what is in these documents. Once we get them, it's going to take a long time to, to search them and parse them out. Although, you know, within the current technological landscape, the processing of this type of information is much easier than it ever has been before. And, you know. Well, there's a lot to come in the next few weeks to see whether DOJ complies or complies at least in part, with the law.

[Joe]

When assuming this does happen when the files are released, then considering, Sarah, your experience in the legal field, what will you be looking for? Because you're going to have massive bands of journalists and lawyers digging through these files all weekend. Where do you start?

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

Yeah, I think some of the most interesting information is going to come in the FBI 3 or twos, which are essentially reports that the, that the agents prepare. So for instance, if they're interviewing a witness or a person of interest, they are required under their regulations to prepare a report, a 302 regarding that interview. And so the 302s are probably the best starting place for anyone looking at this information to really get a sense of the scope of the investigation that has happened in years past.

[Joe]

Understood. With all of that said, it's entirely possible, if not likely, we're going to be seeing names that have not been invoked in this story yet. To what extent can individuals find out if they are in these files, if they may be prosecuted because they're in these files? How messy is this going to get?

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

Yeah, so it's a really interesting question because the law itself tells DOJ you cannot withhold information just because it is going to cause someone reputational or professional or personal harm.

[Financial Analyst]

Right.

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

So imagine someone who has a social, close social relationship with Epstein but no involvement in the sex trafficking part of Epstein's life. And so that person may be sort of impugned by the documents that are released, but really have no, there is no sort of no basis to, to levy any criminal charges against that person. And that person was in fact like ignorant of the Epstein's involvement in the criminal activity. So those types of issues are really ones that we should consider and are important ones to think about as particularly when we have, you know, a situation like this where we're releasing investigative files. And I think those, that sort of precise situation is the reason it is so unusual and to release investigative files.

[Joe]

Only got a minute left. Sarah, this has been a fascinating conversation. Remember when Pam Bondi, the Attorney General said she had the client list and it was on her desk? Of course we now assume that was not the case. Is there a client list or are we just digging through a lot of receipts here for the next many days?

[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

Yeah, I don't think we're going to see anything like that. I mean, and I think if that, if some sort of very delineated list was there, we would have known about it before this point. Right. We had the years long Epstein conversation and the Maxwell investigation. We would have seen it before. We haven't seen it yet.

[Podcast Host]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.

[Joe]

The entire city of Washington is holding its breath for the release of the Epstein files that we were just discussing. In a great conversation, we learned a lot from Sarah Kristoff about the way this might work, knowing that the law not only mandates the release of these files today, but goes even further to call for all unclassified records, documents, communications, investigative materials to be made available and searchable and downloadable online. So when this happens, you're going to see scores of headlines come out probably today, but also over the course of the weekend. They're talking about hundreds of thousands of documents. The deputy attorney general Todd Blanch telling Fox News they're not going to get them all out today. That's how many, I guess there are. They're not ready. We'll have hundreds of thousands more to be released in the days or weeks ahead, even though that would technically be violating the law that President Trump signed himself. We turn to our political panel for the political side of this story. Having now covered the legal side, Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeannie Shan Zaino is with us, our Democratic analyst and democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. @ her side, Lisa Camuso Miller, Republican strategist, senior vice president, Rock Solutions, former spokesperson for the rnc. So let's get into it, Jeannie. We talked about it for months and months and ended up happening in a discharge petition. A vote was forced by a couple of lawmakers. It then gained critical mass, sailed to the Senate. The president had no choice but to sign it. But will we actually see the files.

[Democratic Analyst Jeannie Shan Zaino]

Today? It's still unclear. There are so many loopholes in the bill, even though it was written fairly tightly. They include everything from any information on the victims to things about national security. And of course, as we've talked about any ongoing investigation. So there's a lot of ways the DOJ could defend themselves by withholding information. Todd Blanche going on FOX News and saying, you know, we're going to do the best we can, but we don't know if we'll get all of them out or it sounds like they're not going to. But I think left out of all of this, and this has been true from the beginning of this saga, are the victims the thousand or more women who at that point were children in many cases, who were victimized by the most powerful men in the world? They have continued to be victimized by this process. And that is on both sides of the aisle. The Democrats drip, drip, drip of information has re victimized these victims and some of them have talked about that. And it would be very nice if Washington would find a way to support these victims by letting them know what's coming out and when so they are prepared for this onslaught. I think that is the most troubling aspect of this story, Lisa, we've.

[Joe]

Talked a lot today about the lack of enforcement here, and Todd Blanch is already making it pretty clear that they're going to violate the law by not getting everything out today. There's not much that can be done, but political pressure as opposed to legal pressure is a very different thing. The fact that we got to this point is due entirely to political pressure. If the White House, if the DOJ doesn't satisfy people and you're hearing as much skepticism, skepticism as I'm sure I am here, a lot of people don't think that they're going to be satisfied by the release today. What will be the political.

[Republican Strategist Lisa Camuso Miller]

Response? You know, I don't know what the political response specifically will be, Joe, but I think the thing to watch most closely here, Jeannie makes a great point about all of those that have been impacted by this. And I think that the worst part of this is that this will they will relive this over and over again. Politically speaking, Joe, what really does an incredible amount of harm is to all of those vulnerable members of Congress who have no response to what is about to happen because the White House has given almost no guidance to those members about what it is that's about to happen. So there is an intense and very strong unhappiness amongst elected officials out in those vulnerable districts feeling very much without any preparation, any understanding of what is about to occur and not having the right words to say when this information does become available. So it's going to be it's going to be incredibly corrosive for hundreds of people, the hundreds of people that will be affected. But overall, there will be questions, there will be no answers, and it'll be a lot more confusion. First, for an issue that really, really deserves to be settled and solved and resolved for so.

[Joe]

Many. Well, that sounds like a disappointment, Jeannie. Should people prepare to be.

[Democratic Analyst Jeannie Shan Zaino]

Disappointed? I mean, the whole thing is incredibly sad, but I think there are heroes in this story. Number one, these victims who for decades have gone against the odds to report on the most horrendous things that can be done to a person and who kept after it. Of course, the congressmen and women who pushed against their own political, you know, with their own political future are at stake to get these released. And of course, also reporters like Julie K. Brown at the Miami Herald and so many others who have made sure that they were going to be on this case. And those reporters who are on a Friday night tonight waiting to see these releases so they can pour over them. I mean, so there are really good and positive aspects of this. And I would also include those people in MAGA and elsewhere who wouldn't let this rest. So, you know, we see a lot of positive aspects of this, but I think the negative parts are so glaring, and they mostly have to do with elected officials and on both sides of the aisle who have not only committed these crimes, but turned a blind eye to others who did and have not been willing now to abide by law and get these out immediately and in the interests of these victims. So I think there's a positive, there is a negative. But I think the most important thing is that we remember the thousand of victims here who are reliving this as we wait for this to drop.

[Joe]

Today. Well, I appreciate your returning to that point, Jeannie, and I, as someone who worked in a former Republican speaker's office. Lisa, I'm curious your thoughts about the conversations that took place with Mike Johnson, knowing that there were so many members who wanted this, there were so many folks in the MAGA community who demanded it. It's partly why Donald Trump was looked at the way he was in the campaign, because they thought he would be the only one to actually do this. And the fact of the matter is Mike Johnson resisted this till the very end. It required a discharge petition to go around the Speaker's office and bring it to the floor. Then suddenly everybody was on board and it cruised right through the Senate. As I mentioned earlier, nothing seems to get done without a discharge petition. Now, Lisa, will Mike Johnson regret that.

[Republican Strategist Lisa Camuso Miller]

Decision? You know, it's really hard to tell, Joe. This speaker himself has been incredibly cooperative and has worked really hard to work in close tandem with the White House for a variety of reasons. It's very difficult for him because of the slim, slim margin that he represents in the House on the Republican side to really get anything done without that kind of very close connection and very close coordination with the White House. But to me, my understanding is that there has been very little guidance, very little information shared from the administration into the Republican Conference or any, any elected officials. The other cynicism I have here, Joe, is that it feels to me like this is going to be a lot of waiting and a lot of anticipating for something that ultimately will not reveal enough information for some actual stories to hit. And so I, maybe I am the Cynic of Washington, D.C. today, but I don't expect this to be as explosive and explosionary or whatever the word is that you use for this. Epstein. I think that this will be the kind of thing that will be a great big buildup to a great big nothing when it all comes to be in the light of day. And not because there aren't people that are guilty, but the way that is revealed and the way that it's rolled out that it becomes less of a story because of the way that it has been handled to your original point that who knows how much will really be offered up.

[Joe]

Today. Spoken like someone who's been around Washington for a minute, Jeannie. The president's going to be on stage tonight. He's going to be in North Carolina 9:00pm Eastern Time. If this is some kind of Friday night news dump, be the ultimate Friday night news dump, I guess. And the later this goes the I guess later people are going to be up sorting through these files. Does he have to mention this? I mean, would you consider the dynamic of him in front of thousands of people when these headlines.

[Democratic Analyst Jeannie Shan Zaino]

Break? Yeah. I mean, you're hard pressed to imagine what he would say about it beyond what he's already said. And what he has already said has been pretty frustrating again for the victims. I mean, these victims asked to go to the White House when he signed the bill in recognition from the White House and the president that they were indeed victimized. Instead, he did it in the middle of the night and then he politicized it, focusing on the Democrats who were perpetrators and certainly there are enough of those. So I can't imagine he's going to say anything that will satisfy the people who have pushed for so long and so hard to get these out that's going to satisfy them. I think what there is a concern about is that he's going to try to counter program this by saying something outrageous or doing something outrageous. You know, you're hard pressed to know. But it is quite a Friday night that he's speaking at 9pm and at this point it looks like we may not even get this document until around that.

[Joe]

Time. Well, they could wait till he's off the stage, I suppose too. And I can't imagine he's going to be gaggling with reporters after the fact. There aren't going to be any binders released today, it looks like, Lisa, but it could in fact take the weekend. To your point for any real news to come out here that could be confusing for some people as well. But as a communications expert in our last moment, I wonder for the rnc, which you used to speak for or the administration, do they need to have a deliberate response prepared for when this.

[Republican Strategist Lisa Camuso Miller]

Breaks? You know ordinarily, yes, that would be exactly what we would be doing and preparing. I'm reflecting on this week alone, Joe. The President himself said some pretty unpopular and unique unsympathetic things about a horrible, horrible tragedy that happened in California. And two days later a very revealing report came through from Vanity Fair. So this administration is really good at dodging all of that kind of information over and over.

[Joe]

Again. Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after.

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[Podcast Host]

Com. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg.

[Joe]

11:30. This is the largest ever expiration $7.1 trillion and a triple witching options expiration happening today. We wanted to extend the conversation on the markets before we're joined by our friend David Westin just to spend a bit of time with Nora Melinda, Bloomberg Markets correspondent, who's watching all of this occur. What's this going to mean for the end of the session here, Nora, with this many options.

[Financial Analyst]

Expiring? Well, we're certainly seeing a lot of green across the screen. I've certainly got my eye on information technology. We're seeing that leading the S&P 500 higher. But of course we know we've been getting a lot of news in the tech space and more importantly today we got that TikTok news. We've been seeing shares of Oracle rising higher and looking at shares of Oracle up more than 7% right now. And we know that TikTok is being bought by a group of buyers led by this company, Oracle. So you're certainly seeing a lot of a risk on sentiment right now being displayed in the market. Health care, of course, the second best performing sector right.

[Democratic Analyst Jeannie Shan Zaino]

Now.

[Joe]

Hmm. Yeah. You know, it's pretty interesting reading analyst notes today about in video. Everybody's been upset about a potential bubble suggesting that valuations are too rich in the AI space. But this is really remarkable. An analyst at Truist, William Stein, says semiconductor stocks remain cheap upgrading in video today, hiking the price target to 275. Are we going to find that after all the fits that we had about AI at the end of this year that a huge buying opportunity is being.

[Financial Analyst]

Created? Well, I'm looking at the NASDAQ 100 right now on pace to end the year up about 21% so far this year. And when we think about a broader potential AI bubble, people are really just fixated on whether or not current market valuations in the tech space are enough to justify further returns as we think about the future and whether or not they're actually going to be able to see all the money being poured into the sector actually paying off. So that still remains at top of mind for a lot of investors when we think about speculative names. But you really are seeing the majority of these tech stocks still buoying the market higher as we've seen in really recent years.

[Joe]

Joe? Mm, really pretty remarkable the, the idea of this broadening out. You know, Charlie was just talking about the Russell. We're looking at the RSP, the equal 8, equal weight S&P 500 and we've seen us walk up to the line, this market walk up to the line of a so called rotation or broadening rally and then it kind of just goes Back to the Mag 7. Is it really happening this.

[Financial Analyst]

Time? Well, we're certainly going to have to wait and see for that one. But I'm also looking at the Russell. If you look at the Russell on a year to date basis as we're heading into the end of the year up about 14%. So it's interesting when you just flashback to last year and what expectations were heading into this year as we think about the Trump trade and expectations about his economic policies and how they would actually affect the market. There were some areas where of course expectations did fall short as we think about the broader trade war more globally and the impact that it's really had on the economy more broadly. But if you think about it on a broader scale, we still are seeing strength broadly across the broader market. As you're mentioning the Russell, we're also looking at major indexes like the Nasdaq and S&P 500 double digit returns across the.

[Joe]

Board. Just quickly, Nora, you mentioned the Trump trade and I haven't heard anybody refer to that in months. Remember that was the big story at the beginning of the year and when the president took office. And really interesting in our Macro View column, markets live Trump trades diminishing expectations. What is the Trump trade at this point? Is it AI and crypto or.

[Political Correspondent]

Is it more than.

[Financial Analyst]

That? Well, if we look at that markets live story, they talk about 2026 seeing more modest expectations as we think about this quote unquote Trump trade, which essentially was optimism on Trump bringing in economic policies that would actually benefit the economy and the broader market. But if we think about the fact that we've also been seeing President Trump putting a lot of pressure on Jerome Powell, the Fed chair, and wanting to bring in another Fed chair that has a more aggressive easing cycle, there are concerns about whether or not this could potentially backfire, especially as we think about this is pushing up long term rates here if investors start essentially demanding higher yield to offset inflation risks down the line. What this could mean in terms of margins in the market more broadly and what this means for the bond.

[Joe]

Market. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington D.C. at noontime [e-mail] if a Lenovo computer for your business is on your holiday list, don't shop around, just go directly to the source lenovo.com it's your last chance to get exclusive deals on the PCs you want for your business like the ThinkPad X9 14, Aura Edition and Yoga 7i 2 in one. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source lenovo.com where PCs are up to 35% off. That's lenovo.com. Only one movie answers the.

[Democratic Analyst Jeannie Shan Zaino]

Call. Hello, it's me.

[Joe]

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[Legal Expert Sarah Kristoff]

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Patrick? No, I'm asking. The SpongeBob movie rated DG now.