Instant Reaction: Judge Rejects Subpoenas of Fed in Powell Case, DOJ to Appeal

Summary

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Balance of Power: "Instant Reaction – Judge Rejects Subpoenas of Fed in Powell Case, DOJ to Appeal"

Date: March 13, 2026
Hosts: Bloomberg correspondents Joe Mathieu and Kailey Leinz
Guests: June Grasso (Bloomberg Legal Analyst), Michael McKee (Bloomberg Economics & Policy Correspondent), Tim O'Brien (Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delivers instant analysis of the bombshell legal decision by Judge James Boasberg rejecting subpoenas aimed at the Federal Reserve and Chair Jay Powell. The discussion explores the legal, political, and market implications, probes the White House’s strategy, and considers what lies ahead for the Fed’s leadership during a period of political and economic turmoil.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legal Ruling & Its Unusual Tone

[02:20 - 03:50]

• Judge Boasberg’s Opinion: Legal Analyst June Grasso notes the ruling started with social media posts from President Trump criticizing Powell, calling him "too angry, stupid and too political," which she describes as highly unusual for a judicial opinion.
  • Quote (June Grasso, 02:40):
    “He started with a page and a half of social posts by President Trump...usually they didn’t even give a preface. He just went right into it.”
• Reason for Quashing Subpoenas: The judge cited lack of evidence of wrongdoing by Powell and highlighted that the motive behind the investigation appeared to be political retribution. Rule 17 was cited, prohibiting subpoenas that are "unreasonable or oppressive."
  • Quote (June Grasso, 03:25):
    "The judge found that this was unreasonable and probably oppressive."

2. Judge Boasberg’s Background and Political Ramifications

[03:50 - 05:04]

• Judge’s Reputation: Boasberg, appointed by both Democratic and Republican presidents, has previously clashed with the Trump administration, having been accused—unsuccessfully—of ethics violations.
  • Quote (June Grasso, 04:40):
    “He was called an activist judge by Jeanine Pirro, and actually calling out Judge Boasberg and a few other judges as activist judges...they call dyed-in-the-wool Republican judges activists.”

3. Aftermath for Jay Powell and the Federal Reserve

[05:04 - 08:38]

• Powell’s Response: Michael McKee observes that Powell "is not rejoicing" but satisfied, and the Fed’s stance has always been that there is no crime.
  • The judge compared Trump’s crusade against Powell to the line, “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?”
• DOJ Appeal Path:
  • Pirro will appeal and may seek reconsideration, but June Grasso doubts the judge will reverse himself. She notes the difficulty in actually securing criminal charges based on ambiguous or mistaken testimony—comparing to the Barry Bonds perjury case, which was overturned on appeal years later.
  • Quote (June Grasso, 07:44):
    “Getting a criminal case based on statements that are mistaken—that is a very tough case to make…perjury cases are just really cost overruns.”

4. The Allegations Against Powell – Substance or Fishing Expedition?

[07:48 - 08:38]

• Contentious Grounds: Michael McKee clarifies the disputed testimony was about cost overruns presented to the Senate Banking Committee, but multiple senators insisted Powell did not lie.
  • Quote (Michael McKee, 07:53):
    "When he was asked about the cost overruns...he didn’t have all the information right in front of him. But there was no lie in it. Tim Scott...said, ‘He didn’t lie to us.’”

5. Leadership Uncertainty and Market Impact

[09:38 - 11:26]

• Powell’s Future: If Kevin Warsh’s confirmation is delayed (as Senator Thom Tillis promises), Powell could remain as Fed Governor until January 2028, and possibly chair the FOMC for longer. The appeals process could “continue for months.”
  • Quote (Michael McKee, 09:51):
    "Powell can stay as a governor until January of 2028...he just stays as chair until and unless he either resigns or Warsh comes in.”

6. The White House’s Lack of Strategy

[11:26 - 14:54]

• Tim O’Brien’s Perspective: Trump’s administration, O’Brien says, is marked by chaos rather than strategic planning, especially compared to the careful orchestration needed for a Fed transition.
  • Quote (Tim O’Brien, 11:55):
    "It matters when you plan a party…how you get a Fed nominee on track...and the fact that they're not suggests...they actually don't have a blueprint for how to go about this.”
• Is Chaos a Strategy? O’Brien doubts there’s conscious chaos, insisting most actions revolve around Trump’s self-interest, not organized planning:
  • Quote (Tim O’Brien, 13:49):
    "This is an attempt to impose a rational structure on what’s an inherently irrational process...Trump clearly has goals...not having a strategy. Strategies require patience...The rest is throwing Mud up against a wall to see what sticks."

7. Fed Independence and Market Confidence

[19:03 - 20:00]

• Fed’s Standing Post-Ruling: McKee contends markets are reassured by the ruling, seeing Fed independence as intact—critical to investor confidence.
  • Quote (Michael McKee, 19:19):
    "Markets feel basically that Fed independence is strong...the more the President turns other members of the Fed against him...the Fed itself is more important."

8. Political Theatre and Administration Messaging

[17:25 - 18:54]

• Pirro’s Press Conference: Tim O'Brien describes U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro’s press event as "combative" and staged for President Trump—the "audience of one."
  • Quote (Tim O’Brien, 17:46):
    "It reminded me of the Attorney General’s...testimony...I am not going to concede your point...I’m here because Donald Trump is the best president in the history of the world."

9. Economic Backdrop – Stagflation and Energy Crisis Risk

[16:32 - 21:27]

• Stagflation Fears: O’Brien evokes stagflation, noting economic uncertainty and lack of senior advisors curbing Trump’s impulses.
• Oil Market Volatility: Both hosts and guests agree President Trump attempts to "massage" energy markets but can’t control them indefinitely—risking an energy crisis if the Iran conflict deepens.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• June Grasso on Boasberg’s Ruling:
  "He just went right into it. And...there’s no evidence that Powell committed any crimes. On the other side, there's a mountain of evidence that this is about retribution against Powell by Trump." [03:03]
• Michael McKee on Political Motives:
  “It basically comes down to, will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest? And Jeanine Pirro is the person who's trying to do that.” [05:24]
• Tim O'Brien on Chaos vs. Strategy:
  “It’s important to discern strategy from chaos and discern strategy from goals...almost everything that [Trump] aspires to is in one of those silos. But that’s not having a strategy.” [13:49]
• Michael McKee on Fed Independence:
  “Whether they love Jay Powell or hate Jay Powell, the Fed itself is more important.” [19:19]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:00 – 03:50]: Analysis of the judge’s opinion and legal reasoning
• [05:04 – 08:38]: What happens next for Jay Powell, Fed, and DOJ appeal
• [09:38 – 11:26]: Process implications for Warsh’s nomination and Powell’s tenure
• [11:26 – 14:54]: Tim O'Brien on Trump team’s lack of strategy
• [16:32 – 21:27]: Economic risks: stagflation, oil market, and Fed independence

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Judge Boasberg’s ruling was striking in style and substance, underscoring the political nature of the case and shielding the Fed from further legal fishing expeditions—for now.
• Powell remains in place at the Fed, with his continuation all but assured as long as the appeals process delays Warsh’s confirmation.
• The White House strategy—if there is one—appears reactive and chaotic, risking legislative and economic repercussions.
• Markets, for now, view Fed independence as secure, even amid political drama; but economic and geopolitical tension (especially around energy) looms large.
• Media performances (Pirro’s combative press conference) are seen as meant for the President’s approval, not broader accountability.
• Broader context: The episode provides both legal and political insight, and leaves listeners with an understanding of the judicial, policy, and economic stakes in the Fed chair succession battle.

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Transcript

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[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

this is

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

a breaking news update from Bloomberg. Instant reaction and analysis from our 3,000

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

journalists and analysts around the world.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. jeanine Pirro vowed to continue her investigation of Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell after a judge earlier rejected subpoenas issued to the central bank, threatening to delay the confirmation of Kevin Warsh as Powell's successor. She spoke from her office in D.C.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

jerome Powell today is now bathed in immunity, preventing my office from investigating the Federal Reserve.

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

This is wrong and it is without legal authority.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

That's U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. jeanine Pirro. We're joined by June Grasso, Bloomberg Legal analyst and host of Bloomberg law weeknights at 6 and 10pm on Bloomberg Radio. Michael McKee is with us too. He's Bloomberg TV and Radio International economics and policy correspondent. June, you brought a printout. This is the full opinion. What have you found?

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

Let me first read you, if I may, the first few lines. Jerome Too late. Powell has done it again. It's too late. And actually he's too angry, stupid and too political to have the job of Fed Chair. He's costing our country trillions of dollars.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

It sounds like a true social post.

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

So wait, the judge started with a page and a half of social posts by President Trump.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

So all legal rulings are like that, right.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

These days.

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

I've never seen one like this because usually they didn't even give a preface. He just went right into it. And, you know, the thing is that he said there's, there's no evidence that Powell committed any crimes. They've presented no evidence. On the other side, there's a mountain of evidence that this is about retribution against Powell by Trump. And that's why Judge Boasberg put that evidence so political.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Can we read retribution as political or no?

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

Yes, Yes, I definitely think so. And you heard Jeanine Pirros talk about how there's no evidence and there's no this is against the rules and all that stuff. Well, you know, I'll just read from Rule 17 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which prohibits subpoenas that are unreasonable or oppressive. So the judge found that this was unreasonable and probably oppressive. So, you know, this is a judge that's well known. He's the chief Judge of the D.C.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

circuit Judge Boasberg you're talking about.

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

He's very well respected. But you also might know he came into prominence because he's the judge who told the Trump administration to turn the planes around when they were flying Venezuelans to El Salvador.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Well, we heard from our Elliot Stein of Bloomberg Intelligence, right. Who said that this is a judge who's been kind of a thorn in the side of the Trump administration.

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

They went after him for ethics violations and failed. So it was about a conference, a private statement that he made at a conference of judges, and they actually tried to pursue ethics complaint against him, and that was dismissed.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

So he was, he was appointed in 2011 by President Obama, but earlier he was appointed to the Superior Court of D.C. by President George W. Bush. So he's had support from. And you know, we're talking about this because these days we, there's a lot of. He was called an activist judge by

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

Jeanine Pirro, not only that, by Pam Bondi months and months ago. I have, I can, you know, find the quotes of her calling him and actually calling out Judge Boasberg and a few other judges as activist judges. So, I mean, that's a term that is used a lot by people in this administration. And, you know, you really can't put any credit on that because they call dyed in the wool Republican judges appointed by Ronald Reagan activists.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Micah, why don't you come in? You're going to stick around a little bit later and also talk with Our Tim o' Brien about all of this. But, I mean, is Jay Powell sitting there being like yahoo or it's not over yet. So he's, you know, because remember, he made that video after these subpoenas and was. It was unheard of to see a Fed chair come out and do something like that.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

Well, he's not rejoicing. I'm sure he's happy with the ruling. And the Fed had always taken the position there was no crime here. And they pointed to the senators who all said there was no crime here, which Judge Boasberg notes in his decision. And the administration has just continued to pursue this. So the Fed has had to sit back. This was sort of the Fed's longer shot strategy, try to get the subpoenas quashed. It's sort of the first line of defense. And they won on that. So now they don't even have to go farther unless she wins her appeal. But Powell is going to have to wait and see what happens with the appeal. And if then she finds some other way to, to try to indict him for something because they're trying to get him. It's very interesting in Judge Bloosberg's opinion, he paraphrases a man for all seasons when he compares. He lays out all these tweets that the President put out. And he said, this basically comes down to, will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest? And Jeanine Pirro is the person who's trying to do that.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

So go back June, then to the legal case. What's next? What does she, what does she have to do to get.

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

First of all, she said that this gives him blanket immunity. That's not the case. First of all, she's going to appeal. And also they're asking for a reconsideration because she said the judge had some dates wrong. But does that matter legally? Well, it may not matter legally based on, you know, we have to look at what the context of it. Okay. But, you know, will he reconsider? Maybe he'll reconsider, but I doubt that he's going to come out with a different opinion. So that's, that's next is the, is the appeal. And she can also, she can also find, as Mike said, other information to move her case forward. And the other thing is she and particularly the D.C. attorney's office has had a lot of trouble getting grand juries to indict people in cases and having grand juries reject cases that are, you know, overcharged this case. I have to say Getting some a criminal case based on mistaken, based on statements that are mistaken. That is a very tough case to make. I mean, perjury cases are just really cost overruns.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

This is something the president kind of,

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

I mean, it's what doesn't he.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

This was not about cost overruns.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Oh, okay.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

This was about his testimony to the Senate Banking Committee.

[IBM Representative]

Okay.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

When he was asked about the cost overruns and what he said was sort of evasive because apparently he didn't have all the information right in front of him. But there was no lie in it. And Tim Scott, the chairman of the Banking Committee, said there was. He didn't lie to us. The rest of the bank committee said he didn't lie to us. But that's what Pirro is trying to build a case, which is what she

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

highlighted also in the press conference today. Right. In terms of the cost.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

Well, yeah, it all revolves around the cost.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Okay.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

But he didn't. She hasn't tried to charge him with anything in relation to the cost. It's a fishing expedition. If they got some paperwork from the Fed, if the subpoenas had gone forward that showed he did something wrong. But that's fishing expeditions.

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

Well, I was going to say that if you remember the Barry Bonds case years and years and years ago where they were trying to get baseball player. Yes. They were trying to get him perjury based on statements he made to a grand jury. And if you read it, he just went around and around. He didn't lie, specifically seven years of pretrial and things like that. He finally got convicted and then it was overturned on appeal. I mean, these are not easy cases to make. And by the time it goes through, Jeanine Pirro will probably be out of

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

the D.C. kevin Walsh has to wait seven years.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Well, we got our conversation is going to continue. You have work to do. We have to say goodbye to you. June Grasso, Bloomberg legal analyst. She's host of Bloomberg law weeknights at 6 and 10 on Bloomberg Radio. Mike McKee, you're not so lucky. You're sticking with us.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

And we're going to bring our Tim o' Brien into the studio as well and also talk with him about all of this. But Mike, one of the things. Yeah, can we go? Can we go?

[Bloomberg Legal Analyst (June Grasso)]

We're going to go.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Mike.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

One of the things I think about is what if there is kind of the back and forth still going and Kevin Warshis nomination isn't confirmed? What happens? Does Jay Powell stay in the job? Like how does this.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

Well, Powell can stay as a governor until January of 2028, because that's when his governor's as a governor. He would not be chairman of the Board of governors anymore after May 15. But the open Market Committee that makes the interest rate decisions elect own chair every year. This year, the Open Market Committee elected him to be chair for the entire year. The last time they elected somebody in this situation, they said until a successor is confirmed so he could, they don't have to do anything. He just stays as chair until and unless he either resigns or Wash comes in and they decided to replace.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

This is something we're going to talk about with Tim o' Brien, too in just a minute. But, but Mike, it seems like this could have been such an easy opportunity to fast track Kevin Warsh to becoming the next Fed chair had Janine Pirro accepted the decision from this judge and said, okay, he's the judge spoke, we're done, we're, we're, that's it. And we're not going to appeal this. But now Thom Tillis says as long as this process continues, he will not allow Kevin Warsh to move forward from committee to get confirmed.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

Well, and if this is going to continue through the appeals process, it's going to continue for months because that's the way the legal system works. So Warsh is not going to be confirmed anytime soon. I suppose it makes Stephen Myron happy because he stays in the seat. But you have to, you have to shake your head. You have to wonder and say, what were they thinking? But we're always saying that these days.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Yeah.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Let's bring in Tim o'. Brien. He's Bloomberg Opinion senior executive editor. He's back here in our studio. Tim, we wanted you on because you have a store column earlier that we spoke about about the president and plans and planning for this. And I think this is kind of a perfect opportunity to talk about what was the plan here?

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Is there a plan?

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Is there a plan here? And I think if we know what

[Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor]

my answer is going to be.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, I know your answer is going to be, but this seems to be like we were saying, not necessarily prudent to get the next Fed chair in position for President Trump.

[Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor]

Yeah, again, you know, planning matters. It matters when you plan a party. It matters when you plan a home renovation. It matters when you plan how to run a business. And it certainly matters when, when you plan how to run the federal government in its myriad facets and all the important things it does. So, of course, the orchestration of how you get a Fed nominee on track, how you get a Fed nominee approved, and how you then get them seated really matters. And a lot of this, the thing that's going on with Lisa Cook, it is theatrics, the issue being looked into. Other members of the Trump administration have wrestled with this, including Treasury Secretary, who wasn't singled out for an investigation. And it would be just wise for them to let go of it and smooth the waters and get warsh right in there, as Michael was saying. And the fact that they're not suggests a number of things, that they actually don't have a blueprint for how to go about this. They're not communicating well with each other. It's not clear to me how well the President's team communicated with Pirro before she got in front of a microphone to talk about this, how much of it's informed by peak rather than strategy, et cetera, et cetera. And that is a common feature of how the Trump administration rolls.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

I want to ask you, though, Tim, like part of us sometimes wonders, is this chaotic approach and, you know, President Trump's ability or goal of putting so much out there to kind of confuse us is a plan, strategy, what, you know, that flood the zone kind of idea. How much of that do. Should we think that this is part of what he wants to do? I think we're not talking about some

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

oil prices or the Epstein files or Epstein files.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

We talk about this all the time. There are things we're not talking about as a result.

[Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor]

Well, so I think that this is an attempt to impose a rational structure on what's an inherently irrational process, which is that Trump is a chaotic force of nature. This is who he's been forever. He hasn't really had to suffer the consequences of chaos in his own life or his own career. He's come very close a few times. He flirted with personal bankruptcy in the early 1990s. He's been through a number of marriages. He was in the White House, then out of the White House, now he's back in again. So this is present, but I think, I think it's important to discern strategy from chaos and discern strategy from goals. You know, I think Trump clearly has goals. It's usually self aggrandizement or self preservation. Almost everything that he aspires to is in one of those silos. But that's not having a strategy. Strategies require patience. You have to think long term. You have to build a team around you that can help you execute your vision. That's strategy. The rest, all the rest of it is throwing Mud up against a wall to see what sticks.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Who does have strategy is Jay Powell. And I keep thinking, Mike, about next week and the Fed meeting and we'll know where. I'm sure there will be posts on social media that we will get from whether it's the White House or the administration or what have you. But I just think about where Jay Powell is going to be on Wednesday, no matter what is kind of swirling around him. And when it comes to this specifically, we know he'll be asked.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

Yeah, the Fed has to make a decision. And Powell, I'm sure, when asked about it, will say something along the lines of, well, we agree with the. That's all I'm going to say because it's under appeal and I'm not going to talk about it anymore. And then we're going to ask him, are you going to stick around as governor when your term is and what will he say? And he will say, I haven't thought about that. I'm not giving that any thought right now. I'm just focused on the job in front of me, which will, in a way, get easier because of the President, because the war has pushed up oil prices and is threatening the economy. The Fed is now, you know, going to be sitting back and doing nothing. Even if Kevin Warsh were confirmed immediately, he wouldn't be cutting rates under these circumstances with Stephen Myron? No, I don't think so.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Okay.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

I mean, we talked to Stephen the week the war started, and he said, I just don't know enough right now. So I'm still on my position. But if you thought that inflation was going to rise significantly, then cutting rates would not be the thing you'd want to do. Myron's argument would be, well, if the economy is going to slow, we're going to get higher unemployment, then that is something you might cut rates for. But for right now, we're not seeing that.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Tim, where is the President's advisers? Like, I'm just thinking in a normal White House, they would be like midterms, affordability.

[Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor]

Like, you know, just as Mike, as Mike was talking, I was thinking stagflation, stagflation, stagflation. We do all of the, you know, all the, all the bells are chiming towards that. You know, I think in Trump's first White House, he had advisors around him who talked back, whether it was, you know, General Mattis on the one hand or Rex Tillerson on the other. And I don't think those sort of people exist in this administration because I think the lesson that the President took away from his first administration was people who give you independent advice get in your way and they contradict how you see the world. And he doesn't like either one of those things. So what you have now is essentially an apparatus around him that's enabling. But anyone who talks to people in the White House or reports on it describes it as essentially a tornado of different goals and poor communication.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

What did you, Tim, were your takeaways of the press conference we saw with the US Attorney, Jeanine Pirro? It was combative, it was energetic. She, I think she was very. I'm just confused about, like, who, who that was for. And, well, you know, and it reminded me as sort of emissary of the

[Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor]

President, it reminded me of the Attorney General's recent congressional testimony where it was similar. It was. I am not going to concede your point. I'm not really going to answer your question. I'm here because Donald Trump is the best president in the history of the world. And our goal is to achieve acts, and therefore we will do it. And I, and I tend to think, I think today the War Secretary Pete Hegseth, gave a press conference to debrief the American public on where we are. And it was very performative. And again, I think all of these people are cognizant of that when they're on tv. There's an audience of one in the Oval Office that they have to think about before everyone else.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

There's something interesting about this too, because at the Defense Department, remember, they essentially forced all the regular mainstream press out. So the people who are at Hegsensmith

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Lindell TV asking a question earlier today,

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

all basically affiliated with right wing media outlets. But at the Justice Department today, there was a lot of antagonism that she was responding to. She got asked, how does this fit in with all of the other cases that you have failed to get grand juries to indict?

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Right.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

And that made her very angry at the end.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

You know, one of the things I think about too is just, I just blanked, actually.

[Bloomberg Host/Interviewer]

Well, I wanted, I wanted to ask about Fed independence, Mike. And I'm wondering if, if a decision like this from, from a judge makes you think, okay, the Fed, and maybe makes investors think Fed independence is strong.

[Bloomberg Reporter/Analyst (Michael McKee)]

It's kind of a mixed picture. Yes. The, the markets feel basically that Fed independence is strong. Now, one of the issues is how strong is their credibility because of what they, the problem they had with the big inflation scare and things like that. And everybody doesn't know exactly how this plays out with the President and the Fed. But for right now, the markets believe in the Fed and I don't think it's going to take a lot to change that. And the more this goes on, the more the President turns other members of the Fed against him. And people stick up for the institution. And whether they love Jay Powell or hate Jay Powell, the Fed itself is more important.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

That's what I actually wanted to go to. So thank you for like trading my brain, the synopses. But I mean, I think about Tim too, that we talk about a Trump put right, that the President does watch the markets. And really this week I think we've seen things where he's come out to almost massage the energy trade. So should we assume whether it's the Fed, you know, nervousness in the markets that he will come back to that?

[Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor]

Well, I think, you know, he can't just massage the energy trade forever. You know, oil, there is a point where prices have been on a yo yo and at some point, because of the nature of the industry, everything will shut down for a period of time and it'll take a while to revive it and there will be economic consequences for that. And I think he's hoping that within these little moments of breathing room, maybe the Iranians come to the table or something else. I don't know exactly what he's thinking, but.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

But nobody does. Ever.

[Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor]

Nobody does. But the interesting thing here now if you compare it to like Liberation Day and tariffs. Yeah. Is the whole dance around was he going to impose tariffs or not? Played out over several months because he had the time to do that. He does not have the time in this situation to let this play out that long at all. And, and he is now dealing with fanatics in Iran who are going to dig in and wage a long war, it appears. Yeah. And he can be fanatical himself. And if he, if both sides on this end up just digging in, we're going to have a full blown energy crisis.

[Bloomberg Host/Reporter]

Which is why we also have, you know, market watchers saying, you know, we've got to know kind of the duration, the impact and that will determine so much going forward.

[IBM Representative]

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