Kailey Leinz (3:07)

Exactly. It seems like both part parties are pretty far apart at this point. It's unclear if negotiations are happening or if we're really at an impasse because it kind of depends on who you.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (3:17)

Ask on Capitol Hill.

Kailey Leinz (3:18)

If you look to Republican leadership like Senate Majority Leader John Thune, he's saying that there's some optimism here. He's saying that the sides are engaging in good FAI discussions, as he put it. But then you ask the Democratic side and they do not seem impressed with what Republicans have put on the table. In fact, we heard earlier from Democratic leadership in a statement, the Democratic leader in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, who called the Republicans counter proposal woefully inadequate in his words. So there's a lot that we have to watch going forward here. It appears very evident that we're not going to see full fiscal year funding for the Department of Homeland Security. So then the question becomes whether or not they can reach that continuing resolution to kick the can down the road. But at this point, it feels like the two sides are pretty far apart. After Democrats outlined their top 10 demands, we know some of those are nonstarters for the party, like new warrant requirements or demasking, as it's being called, of federal agents that are doing these immigration operations. All right, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall, our Washington correspondent. Thank you so much. It's good to see you, Tyler, here on Bloomberg TV and radio. And as Tyler just said, how you feel about the likelihood of a shutdown or the progress being made on this ice reform issue probably depends on who you ask on Capitol Hill. So we're going to ask someone there right now. Joining us, I'm pleased to say, live from the House is Republican Congressman Brian Stile of Wisconsin. He, of course, is the chair of the House Administration Committee. Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio, sir. It's good to see you. It's been a while since we've talked. As you just heard Tyler say, it seems that there is still a bit of daylight between Republicans and Democrats on what reforms both can actually get behind. Sir, what would you be willing to accept?

Congressman Brian Stile (4:58)

Kelly, welcome back. Here we are again, Democrats threatening to shut down and this time a portion of the federal government if they don't get their way. I think what we need to do is have cooler heads prevail. The Department of Homeland Security is an essential agency that covers not only ice, but also Coast Guard, TSA and other essential federal government programs. And so the threat of a shutdown is unproductive. At an absolute minimum, we should pass a continuing resolution. And in fact, the House passed complete funding for the entire fiscal year in a bipartisan vote. So at the end of the day, what we need to see is Senate Democrats come to the table to make sure that we can get 60 votes in the Senate, fund this for the full year, allow cooler heads to prevail. And I think what we're seeing is more and more local jurisdictions cooperating with ice and that prevents some of the more challenging situations that we've had.

Joe Matthew (5:51)

A Congressman, there are a lot of questions about the way this goes. The calendar is not a friend at the moment. There was only a two week continuing resolution. So here we are again, up against a deadline. If Democrats and Republicans can't come to terms in the next couple of days here, would you support a continuing resolution of that duration again, or should it be something longer so we don't have to keep coming back around on these?

Congressman Brian Stile (6:13)

You know, I don't love cars, but boy, they're better than shutting down the government or a portion of the government in this case. Two weeks is pretty insufficient for Congress to operate. It's too bad that's the case. I'd be open to even a slightly longer cr. But again, this final negotiation is going to take place between about 10 Democrats, the United States Senate with President Trump. It's trusting that they can land this plane. Cooler heads prevail. Getting local jurisdictions to cooperate with ICE and giving that time to reach agreement on this funding deal, I think is what's going to ultimately be required.

Kailey Leinz (6:50)

Well, so while the work on a funding agreement happens in the background, Congressman, you of course are doing work of your own, including holding a committee hearing on election integrity today as well, of course, having introduced the Make Elections Great Again, the MEGA act around election security. That act, as well as the SAVE act, which of course is a kind of tandem effort going on. Congressman, was criticized by Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski as effectively federalizing elections. Is that what you are intending to do? How do you avoid doing that?

Congressman Brian Stile (7:24)

Article one, Section four gives authority both to the states to operate elections, but also the authority for Congress to make sure that there's clear laws to make sure that we have confidence in our elections. The MEGA Act, a portion of which is the SAVE act, puts forward Common sense reforms to reinstate America's trust in our elections. I think it's common sense that we should require, for example, photo identification. When an individual goes to the polls, I have to do that. If you want to board an airplane, you want to open a bank account, or heck, you want to buy a six pack of beer, you need to show photo identification. So it's common sense. It's popular. This is far from the takeover argument that some are attempting to make. It's putting in baseline standards so that all Americans have confidence our elections are being run accurately and fairly.

Joe Matthew (8:11)

Do you worry about mission creep here, if I can use that term, Congressman, when you hear President Trump talking about nationalizing elections and taking it out of the hands of the states. In the case of sanctuary cities or states that have sanctuary cities, he says Republicans should run those elections. Isolating about 15 states he thinks need that kind of attention. Does that run against the conservative principles that you bring to the table?

Congressman Brian Stile (8:37)

Well, I think what it is is putting in baseline standards that are needed to operate our elections. Again, the states are going to be the ones operating the elections. But I do think it's appropriate to a federal standard with which every state must meet at an absolute minimum. Sixteen states, for example, don't require photo identification when an individual goes to vote. Again, I think all 50 states should require that we should end elections on election Day so the American public knows the results of elections on the night of the elections. These are core principles. They're common sense, and they instill confidence in our elections. And what we saw from the state of Georgia after they implemented election integrity reform in 2021, and they've run two statewide elections, high voter participation, increasing confidence. And as that occurs, more and more people are likely to participate, which is a good thing for our democracy.

Kailey Leinz (9:28)

Well, and as we consider what will be on the minds of the American electorate as they go to vote, Congressman, we know the economy always features quite heavily in the impact certain fiscal policies and others have on the economy, like, for example, the impact of tariffs that have been levied by the Trump administration. There were supposed to be just a few hours from now a procedural vote, a rule vote, on what Speaker Johnson is pushing, essentially extending a prohibition of calling snap votes on repealing the president's tariffs. We now understand that has been postponed to 8:30pm this evening. It seems there's a little bit of trouble in the water here, Congressman, as a few of your colleagues have suggested that they will not be voting with the speaker on this. What are you hearing?

Congressman Brian Stile (10:08)

Well, there's a lot of dialogue and discussion as to exactly how we move forward. I think we have an opportunity here to work with the President as we strike trade deals, in particular with our allies, to bring those trade barriers down and to give American markets access into foreign markets. For far too long, countries like China have taken advantage of US Trade agreements in holding countries like China, along with our allies, accountable I think is absolutely essential. We're going to have a lot of dialogue and debate over this or the next handful of hours. But at the end here, I think the goal is to create these trade agreements with our allies. And I think we have an opportunity to do that.

Joe Matthew (10:45)

You know, the Supreme Court at some point is going to rule on this, Congressman. In fact, we thought we, we would possibly even know by now how would that potentially argue or complement a law passed by Congress when it comes to the veracity of this tariff regime.

Congressman Brian Stile (11:01)

Well, for a number of years, beyond just this administration, we have seen executives, both at the presidential level as well as governors, use emergency orders to take actions that they would like to take without legislative approval. We saw that all throughout the period of COVID The case before the Supreme Court I think could be, depending on how it's written, transformative as we understand emergency powers. Many of the tariffs that the President put forward are dependent on those emergency powers. The Supreme Court may rule, but I think in lieu of that, I think what we would like to see is the President continue to work and finalize these trade agreements with our allies to provide real stability in the trade agreements that we need to keep our economy strong and just.

Kailey Leinz (11:46)

Finally, Congressman, on the subject of the economy, President Trump suggested in an interview with Fox's Larry Kudlow that the economy could be growing at 15% under the leadership of Kevin Warsh if he is confirmed as Fed chair. Take a listen.

Llewellyn King (12:00)

We should be at 15% if I'll tell you if our new head of.

Congressman Brian Stile (12:06)

The Fed, who I think is going to be great and he's, he's a.

Llewellyn King (12:09)

Really high quality person, but if he does the job that he's capable, we can grow at 15%.

Joe Matthew (12:17)

I think more than that.

Kailey Leinz (12:20)

You sit on the Financial Services Committee, Congressman. Do you buy 15% GDP growth in the United States of America?

Congressman Brian Stile (12:26)

Well, wouldn't we all love to see it? But I think we got a ton of run room in front of us. The underlying economy in the United States is strong. If we continue to work to remove the burdens that have been put in place through red tape, through high regulations, through taxes, and we work to empower the American economy. I think we're going to continue to see strong economic growth. I think it's great that the president is out there cheerleading for the country and putting a high bar in front of us. But we should all be working to drive forward economic growth in particular, as we look at a period of time where debt and deficits are significant challenges in front of us. The biggest answer to get out of this situation is to grow the economy at rates that we haven't seen. We've seen strong economic growth over the course of the past few quarters. I think we have an opportunity to continue to, to build on that success.

Joe Matthew (13:15)

Congressman, it's great to have you back. Thank you for the insights as always. Brian Stile of Wisconsin, the chairman of the House Admin Committee. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kailey Leinz live in Washington. This is BALANCE of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. We assemble our panel for their take on everything we just heard. Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie Shan Zaino and Rick Davis back together now. Jeannie is our Democratic analyst and Democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. Rick, a Republican strategist and partner at Stone Court Capital. I'm going to park the 15% economic growth over here for just a minute, Jeannie. Did that make you think that we might avoid a government shutdown or is it just a question of how long the CR needs to be? Well, it was good to hear.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (13:57)

The representative is open to the CR.

Kailey Leinz (13:59)

And I agree with him. It should be more than two weeks.

Joe Matthew (14:01)

If he gets it. I am not convinced myself listening to that committee hearing.

Kailey Leinz (14:06)

Hopefully he, you know I'm wrong, but.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (14:08)

I'm not convinced they're going to get there. And I think one of the big.

Kailey Leinz (14:11)

Questions on the Republican side or for the Republicans is why are you committed.

Joe Matthew (14:17)

To the masking, the doxing and everything else they've talked about?

Kailey Leinz (14:21)

No federal officials are masked except for certain circumstances. None of our law enforcement officials are masked.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (14:27)

Why is that going to be a bridge that you would quote, unquote, die on? So that's something thing.

Joe Matthew (14:33)

And then of course, why oppose judicial warrants? The other big sticking point, that's the Constitution. So I think there is room to maneuver.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (14:40)

But we haven't heard those conversations yet and they're going to be critical to getting a deal on this.

Kailey Leinz (14:46)

Well, and Rick, something else we're hearing from Republicans is ICE was already funded through the one big beautiful Bill Act. So if you shut down, you're shutting down TSA and fema. Is that a winning argument for them.

Joe Matthew (14:57)

First of all, great to have you back, Kelly. Yeah, I don't think it's a winning argument for either side at this point. What's kind of interesting is nobody seems to have any leverage on this. I don't know anybody who actually thinks it's a great idea to shut down dhs, at least the non ice portions of it. Nobody has articulated a reason to want to do that and yet nobody also seems to want to compromise. You've got, you know, 10 guardrails the Democrats put out. To me it's as simple as coming up with, you know, pick five of those and one of them can't be masking.

Kailey Leinz (15:33)

All right, go for 100%, maybe get 50%. We'll see. But we have 100% of our panel here with us today, Rick Davis and Jeannie Shan Zaino. They'll be back for more in just a few minutes as we get ready to talk to the chair of the dccc. She's in charge of getting Democrats elected to the house. Congresswoman Susan DelBene will be with us next here in Balance of Power, live from Washington.

Joe Matthew (15:52)

Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this.

Congressman Brian Stile (15:59)

Support for the show comes from public.

Joe Matthew (16:01)

On Public you can build a multi.

Congressman Brian Stile (16:03)

Asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI.

Joe Matthew (16:13)

It all starts with your prompt.

Congressman Brian Stile (16:15)

From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and and put.

Joe Matthew (16:24)

The AI to work.

Congressman Brian Stile (16:26)

It screens thousands of stocks, builds a.

Joe Matthew (16:28)

One of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500.

Congressman Brian Stile (16:32)

Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio.

Joe Matthew (16:46)

That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30.

Kailey Leinz (17:28)

I'm Kailey Leinz back in Washington alongside Joe Matthew here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. I'm on air for the first time in 2026, actually on air for the first time since midway through 2025. But it's good to be back, Joe, and it's good to be back, especially at the beginning innings here of a midterm year. Yes, we have elections coming up in November just about nine months from now. And of course, all eyes are focused specifically on whether or not Republicans can retain control here in Washington. The area in which that might be most vulnerable to change is, of course, the House of Representatives, where the margins are already incredibly tight, difficult for Speaker Johnson. And Democrats are feeling pretty optimistic that they could become the majority. Even more optimistic. If you take a look at what the DCCC is putting out today, they're targeting five more seats in this cycle, bringing the total, Joe, to 44.

Joe Matthew (18:20)

Democratic optimism is on the rise. One thing that has crept into this sort of daily conversation since you left us six months ago is the Senate being in play. And I mean to the point of where we're calling it, a very favorable map and a favorable bit of timing for Democrats. We're going to focus on the House. Now to your point with the woman who is charged with getting Democrats elected and retaking the majority. The DCCC announcing its second expansion. It's out with this new map that contains, to Kaylee's point, five additional seats, Colorado, Minnesota, Montana, South Carolina and Virginia. Congresswoman Susan Del Bene is chair of the dccc. The Democrat from Washington State joins us right now. Congresswoman, it's great to see you. Welcome back. It's nice to see you as Haley returns to our conversation. Yes, exactly. We had to bring the chairwoman here for this opportunity. I'm just wondering, you add five, what's emboldening you and making you feel ever more confident to have a second revision to this map?

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (19:22)

Well, we're listening to the American people and all across the country, people are souring on the Republican agenda. Families are hurting in every corner of the country. It's hard to get by. There's no interest from Republicans in addressing the affordable affordability issues that they're feeling across the country. You know, Republicans promised to lower costs on day one. Prices are skyrocketing, all because of actions of this administration and Republicans in Congress. People want representatives who are going to stand up for them. And so we have opportunities all across the country. And as you said, we added five more because there are five more opportunities we have to flip the house. So 44 in total on our offensive map. We need to net three to take back the gavels in November.

Kailey Leinz (20:11)

Yeah, it is a relatively small number. Chairwoman, and thank you for the warm welcome back. As we consider what you were just talking about here, the notion that Americans are hurting from a financial standpoint, this still seems to be an economy argument. You think you're on the side of winning. Is that true? Is it not a shift in the wind on immigration and ice, for example, that you also are hoping to ride here?

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (20:33)

You know, across the country, people are struggling and prices have skyrocketed. Food, housing, health care, childcare, energy costs, all going up and all going up because of actions of this administration. And they don't care. You heard the president talk about affordability as a hoax. You've heard him say that the economy is doing great. But the reason that people don't listen to that anymore is because that's not what they're feeling. That's not what they're seeing in their checkbook right now. So they need folks who are going to stand up for them. We have folks, incredible candidates running across the country going to stand up, fight to make sure that American families are doing well, not just fight for the wealthy and well connected. That seems to be the focus of Republicans. And yes, fight for safety in our communities, fight for due process. All these issues are important. Affordability is what we're hearing from folks in every part of the country.

Joe Matthew (21:31)

Congresswoman, you started talking about the fundamental reasons why you think these seats are in play, pointing to the economy, of course, here you just mentioned immigration, add health care, price hiking tariffs. To your point, I'm wondering about the technicals here. These new targets are all in districts that President Trump won by 13% or less. What brought you to that threshold? Was it internal polling or the anecdotal evidence you're pointing to?

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (21:58)

Well, we look at all of these districts specifically at what's happening on the ground in these districts. But yes, all of these districts, Trump won by 13 points or less. In special elections across the country, Democrats have been running 13 points ahead. And in congressional special elections Since November of 2024, Democrats have been running 17 points ahead across the country. But if you look at these districts Specifically, I'll take Minnesota 1 as an example. Amy Klobuchar, a Democratic senator there, has won in that district twice. We look kind of at these districts and we know that they have folks who want to stand up for them. And when we have great candidates running who are talking about the issues that matter, we can win. We had 14 Democrats win in districts that Donald Trump also won in in 2024. Now that support for Trump has tanked, people are tired of Republicans who are not addressing the issues that matter for them making their lives worse. So we have strong support across the country. Great candidates, absolutely. Reason we'll take back the House in November.

Kailey Leinz (23:05)

Well, Congresswoman, as we consider the policies of President Trump, many of which, of course, do affect the economy, tariffs are one of those that may feature most prominently. We were just talking with your Republican colleague Brian Style of Wisconsin about the now postponed procedural vote on rule to advance the Speaker's effort to essentially put another block on calling snap votes to repeal President Trump's tariffs. It seems that there are some Republicans who, along with Democrats, would not like to see that go forward. What are you hearing from your colleagues across the aisle who are a bit hesitant around the president's tariff policy? Do you think the midterms are the reason why?

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (23:45)

Well, let's be clear. Congress has the authority and Congress needs to vote on these tariffs. It is just astounding that Republicans over and over again are even scared of taking a vote on this. Remember, this vote that we're having today is so they can avoid taking a vote on tariffs. And yet that's our job as members of Congress, to vote on important issues. And this is an issue that Congress needs to weigh in on. If they think these tariffs are great, then they can vote yes and support Trump's sweeping tariffs that are raising prices across the country. But they aren't. They don't even have the courage to stand up and just take a vote. They are hiding, and they're trying again through this vote today to hide again so they don't have to take a vote. That's another reason people across the country are souring on Republicans. They want representatives who are going to stand up for them. We should stand up and stand up as a co. Equal branch in Congress. Take a vote if you like those tariffs. They can vote yes. But I have been fighting against these, these sweeping tariffs. The president doesn't have this authority. And let's be clear. These are taxes on the American people. It's raising costs on families across the country.

Joe Matthew (24:53)

We saw the response, Congresswoman, from Democratic leaders to the restrictions on ice that Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries had been putting forth. Put forward, rather, the response from the administration was clearly not acceptable. Are we going to watch the Department of Homeland Security shut down Friday night?

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (25:14)

This is really up to Republicans. People across the country have been horrified by what they've seen all across the country. Renee Goode and Alex Preddy being killed for no reason in Minneapolis. Horrific stories not only in Minnesota, but in all parts of the country. Absolutely. People are demanding reforms. We are demanding reforms, too. There should be due process. There should be a rule of law. That's what the American people want to see. Republicans need to be listening to their constituents. They should be standing up as well. If they are willing to actually do listen to their communities and do what their communities are asking for, then we would be able to find a path forward. But as we've seen in all things, they've been unwilling to do that over and over again. And now they're at risk of shutting down the Department of Homeland Security.

Kailey Leinz (26:06)

All right, Congresswoman, we appreciate you joining us here on Bloomberg TV and Radio, the Democratic congresswoman from Washington, Susan Delbene, chair, of course, of the Democratic Congressional Campaign committee, now eyeing 44 potential pickups in terms of seats in the midterms in November. So let's get a reaction to that number as we reassemble our political panel here. Rick Davis and Jeannie Shan Zaino, Bloomberg Politics contributors are still with us. Jeannie, it does seem that Democratic optimism is in the air. Do you share it or do you think 44 might be a number that's quite high? You know, I share it and I.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (26:38)

Think the representative, she made an excellent point. Democrats have been overperforming by 17 points. They've won almost every, if not every.

Joe Matthew (26:47)

Election since Donald Trump was elected.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (26:49)

And of course, they're looking at the same polls we are.

Kailey Leinz (26:52)

Kelly and what are those shows polls showing?

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (26:55)

If this is a referendum on the Trump administration and GOP control of Washington.

Kailey Leinz (27:00)

D.C. even members of the Republican Party.

Joe Matthew (27:03)

Who helped elect Donald Trump in 2024.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (27:06)

Do not like what they're seeing, particularly as it pertains to the economy, costs.

Kailey Leinz (27:12)

Inflation and this big issue of affordability.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (27:15)

Not to mention the other issues of corruption, chaos and what's happening in immigration. You couple all that.

Joe Matthew (27:22)

It should be a very good year for Democrats, Democrats.

Kailey Leinz (27:24)

And you can hear sort of the.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (27:26)

Enthusiasm in the congresswoman's discussion with you.

Joe Matthew (27:30)

Guys that they're feeling. They're feeling the excitement, if you will.

Congresswoman Susan DelBene (27:33)

And thank you because I love a.

Joe Matthew (27:34)

Good election story, as you know, Kelly well, remember the shellacking. I think that was 2010 when Barack Obama lost, I believe, more than 60 seats. Rick, it's hard to imagine a turn of Fortune revision on that level. Do you buy the math as Kelly is asking and do you think we'll see a third revision from the D triple C? I definitely think you could see a third revision by the dccc. Look, forget all the issues, right? Jeannie's right. Those are the issues people are going to campaign on. But this is what I really watch. First of all, the cyclical nature of the midterms. They're always against the party in power, always. And so you know that Trump's going to have a hard time holding the House just because it's a midterm election. Two, redistricting is now ignoring potentially to the benefit of the Democrats because part of the other cyclical nature of this is that because of realignment, a lot of our voters aren't the type that vote in midterms or special elections. As Jeannie pointed out, Democrats have won every special election statewide since Donald Trump became president. Why? Because mostly Republicans don't show up for these kinds of votes. So when you start looking at that, you say, well, these five redistricts, local congressional districts in Texas where we took safe Republican seats and made them less safe so that we could make more of them actually may have resulted in actually making more states less potentially successful. And so you know, if you look at Donald Trump, you know, and in the districts we've seen, he, you know, when you see over 15% of Donald Trump, you know, one in 2024 are losing, then you say, well how many districts are plus Donald Trump, you know, by 15%, that's about 46 districts. Well, that's what the target is. Sounds like the math is mathing. I'm glad we had this opportunity with Rick Davis and Jeannie Shan Zaino Williams. Stay in touch if there is a third revision. Stay with us on balance of power. We'll have much more coming up after this.

Congressman Brian Stile (29:50)

Support for the show comes from public on public. You can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now.

Joe Matthew (29:59)

Generated assets which allow you to turn.

Congressman Brian Stile (30:01)

Any idea into an investable index with AI.

Joe Matthew (30:04)

It all starts with your prompt.

Congressman Brian Stile (30:06)

From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and.

Joe Matthew (30:15)

Put the AI to work.

Congressman Brian Stile (30:16)

It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets.

Joe Matthew (30:21)

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Congressman Brian Stile (30:23)

Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio.

Joe Matthew (30:37)

That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30 thank you for joining us here on the Tuesday edition of Balance of Power. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington as we stare down the barrel of another partial government shutdown only four days away. No one's getting along. We just spent 10 minutes talking to Tyler Kendall about two big scandals brewing in Washington. You can add the brutal winter weather and yes, you might feel like you have seasonal depression. Gallup sees it differently out with new numbers today that make us question our mindset and our politics in America. And we're going to talk to the great Llewellyn King about this in a moment. Consider these numbers the percentage of American adults who anticipate high quality lives in the next five years. And if you're running for re election right now, you might want to listen. It fell in 2025 to just over 59%. That is the lowest level since measurement began nearly two decades ago. Gallup says since 2020, future life ratings have fallen a total of 9 percentage points, projecting to an estimated 24 million fewer people who are optimistic about the future now versus then just in 2020. Of course, that was before the whole pandemic thing happened. Americans ratings of their current lives also declining since rebounding in 21, but not as steeply as their Future Life ratings. We're losing faith in our future. And that's where we start our conversation with the great syndicated columnist, an old friend of mine, the host of White House Chronicle, and someone we used to call our in House ombudsman when we worked together. Llewellyn King, welcome to Bloomberg. It's great to see you.

Llewellyn King (33:01)

It's lovely to be with you, Joe.

Joe Matthew (33:02)

It's always a pleasure when you're in the nation's capital. We're better for it. And I'm wondering how you rationalize this, if this is a political story, a cultural one, or if we don't separate.

Llewellyn King (33:10)

The two anymore, all of the above. Well, we're in a seminal time. And if you take seminal to mean what I mean, which is nothing will be the same again. Permanent change. You've got political change, you've got cultural change, but most importantly, you've got technological change. People do not feel secure about the future because they don't know what it will be. And insecurity will produce this kind of sense of lack of confidence that the public has. And it's often, as it is at the moment, at odds with the reality. I mean, people are not badly off at the moment financially, but they sense that it won't go on, that the future will not be as the past, the trajectory will not be all ever up. You know, I grew up in a generation where I was expected and it turned out to do better than my parents. And we all did. We were all on this ascent. Well, the ascent is less certain. And the big uncertainty, which I think is underestimated and certainly been ignored by the political class, and I say that advisedly, the political class has been AI, artificial intelligence. This is causing the whole future to be uncertain, out of kilter. We know that the things that we used to be able to rely on, a certain type of employment, particularly white collar employment, is not going to be as certain.

Joe Matthew (34:42)

Well, what does that say then about President Trump's golden age that embraces AI, that embraces crypto, and embraces a whole different level of rhetoric at the same time? Shouldn't people feel optimistic when they're.

Llewellyn King (34:55)

I think that's just what you said. It's rhetoric.

Joe Matthew (34:57)

Yeah.

Llewellyn King (34:58)

It has no basis in fact, it has no depth of analysis and there's no data behind it. It's a hopeful expectation. It's a political claim that is without foundation. We don't know how this will work out. And it is, in my view, very possible that we're taking the wrong actions to deal with the future. For example, with artificial intelligence, we are not as a people looking at it, its impact, but also how to use it. We're in the sense that we're in a race with the Chinese for it, which is the wrong way, in my view, to look at it. You've got to look at it as inevitable and how we're going to use it. At the moment, with artificial intelligence, we're looking at it as though we've got to get our arms around the whole enormous. In reality, we only have to get our arms around a little bit of it, really. A bit that applies to ourselves. Take the internal combustion engine. When that arrived, if you said, oh, there are going to be tractors, there are going to be trucks, there are going to be cars. Taxi. I've got to get my arms around. All that was. All you need is to get your arms around your Toyota Camry. You don't need everything. And I think we're going to see really a change in expectations. Corporations are going to have to decide how they're going to use it and how much of it. Because when you go whole hog into AI you also expose yourself your proprietary data is no longer proprietary, your phone numbers are no longer.

Joe Matthew (36:37)

That's why a couple of year old columns are probably in these LLMs right now. That's not even a joke.

Llewellyn King (36:42)

So in the future we're going to be much more cautious and we're going to be much more concerned about the veracity of information and there will be a new level of user and usage of AI which is less all encompassing. But that does not mean that we can predict a solid and worthwhile future from it. I think we'll get it, but we don't know that.

Joe Matthew (37:07)

There's a lot there. I want to ask you about what you just said, veracity of information and then I want to ask you about the energy component to this because that's where we go to ground for something very real and is a matter of expertise for you. Veracity of information. When the President of the United States is posting AI videos that you cannot tell if they're real or not does what to the American psyche, It undermines.

Llewellyn King (37:29)

Us, it undermines our confidence, it undermines our certainty and it's who cares Attitude is developed. If the President can do it, I can do it. It's very, very damaging to a society not to venerate truth.

Joe Matthew (37:48)

How about when somebody goes on Facebook and they can't tell, it doesn't. We'll take the President out of this. The fact that they can't tell what's real. I have people send me stories on a semi regular basis saying is this true? Where does that leave us?

Llewellyn King (38:02)

I think it leaves us with an opening to create something in technology which will be able to establish the veracity. The history of some sort of watermarking. Exactly. And it hasn't happened yet. The thing to remember about technology is it tends to fix its own problems in time or we get it to fix its own problems. It doesn't actually do it by itself. Well, this is true. The great question about AI is will it be already they're saying that it is contemplative. I wonder as we have fed it on all Western civilization Whether this isn't now going to be part. Western civilization is full of morals standards. We don't keep to them, but they're there. And will AI Suddenly stop actually thinking about the moral content of something? But we're not there yet. We're worried about that, and we're worried about quantum computing. We're standing at the frontier of an entirely different world. And it would be very surprising if we were terribly confident about it and probably be very dangerous if we were. So we're going to go as best we can into this new world, but take the application of artificial intelligence in a corporation. Corporations think, should we do this? I mean, down on the shop floor, everybody's using it, isn't that right? So you've got a different situation. You've got hesitance at the top and enthusiasm at the bottom.

Joe Matthew (39:45)

Fascinating.

Llewellyn King (39:45)

And not everybody is scared of it. We took my little television program, White House Chronicle, over to a conference in Spain recently where there were a lot of young people not dominated by Asians, which is usually the AI world. If I go to mit, there are an awful lot of people from India, Pakistan, China, et cetera. You can tell, because obviously the facial characteristics, and they're very gifted people. But this was people who use AI in our culture. And it was built, and they were all occupied, preoccupied with creativity, advertisements, designing shoes, clothes, making artworks. And they were very excited about AI A they had solid employment from it and making good money. And they were at the frontier, and the frontier was working for them.

Joe Matthew (40:43)

Or there are evangelists everywhere in Washington as well, and many of them have been on this program. And when you listen to them talk, talk, it's a beautiful story. For many people, though, their only interaction with AI has been a data center that screwed up their view looking out the back of the house, and it jacked up their electricity prices. So the president says big tech ought to pay for it and that there's going to be a new approach to the grid. You've been writing about the grid and energy demand in this country since anyone ever thought of a data center. Can this administration solve this?

Llewellyn King (41:13)

No. Technology will solve it. And that is, we're not going to be on a trajectory that goes like a graph line going up off the paper. More electricity, 25% more. 50% of the world's electric generation is going to data center. It isn't going to happen. What's going to happen is there will be improvements A in the technology, the data center, and quite possibly something very radical. For example, if we had a photon chip where we used light instead of electricity. And the Japanese in particular are working on this. You wouldn't need the electricity. Already they're reducing the demand by cooling with water, not with air. But think of some other shortage. I think of natural rubber. Along came the automobile. We needed rubber. You would think the whole world would be put down to a rubber plant, plantations, but it wasn't. We created synthetic rubber. And so, you know, at one time the Amazon was the hot new possibility place that was the frontier. There was a wonderful opera house on the Amazon. It was so prosperous, growing rubber trees. Well, rubber. And we got a solution.

Joe Matthew (42:31)

Maybe someday that's what they'll be saying about Abilene, Texas in the data center.

Llewellyn King (42:34)

Well, I think we may live long enough, or certainly you will live long enough to see the data centers. Looking for some other mission.

Joe Matthew (42:42)

Interesting. Can we do this again sometime?

Llewellyn King (42:45)

Oh, anything.

Joe Matthew (42:46)

The great Llewellyn King. Find him online. Read his column. Syndicated columnist, White House Chronicle. It's great to see you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, D.C. at noontime eastern@bloomberg.com. With volley from iShares. You get access to both monthly income and growth potential in one simple ETF.

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