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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
The Chase Inc. Business Premier card is a pay in full card with flexibility made for business owners who make things happen. Earn a total of 2.5% cash back on every purchase of $5,000 or more, plus earn unlimited 2% cash back on every other purchase, giving you unlimited earned potential to invest cash back into your business. Inc. Business Premier is part of a suite of credit cards from Chase for Business designed to meet your needs every step along the way. Learn more@chase.com businesscard Chase for Business make more of what's Yours Accounts subject to credit approval restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio news. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomb York business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [01:05]
Tyler Kendall
Tyler Kendall here in Washington alongside Joe Matthew and the federal government is reopened after the longest shutdown in U.S. history. Now this is a funding package that includes a stopgap measure, which means that we are funding partially the government through January 30. Some key agencies will be funded through the fiscal year like the usda. So theoretically the question of SNAP benefits should be off the table for the next negotiation. But we do have our eyes on the next negotiation because this deal does not address that core demand that we saw from Democrats when it comes to expanding the expiring Affordable Care act premium subsidies. Looking for an extension there. We heard from President Trump last night, who put the blame squarely on Democrats, as Democrats themselves have been saying that they did this to fight for the American people.
- [01:54]
Joe Matthew
With my signature, the federal government will.
- [01:57]
Rick Davis
Now resume normal operations.
- [01:59]
Joe Matthew
They had to do it the hard.
- [02:00]
Congressman Brad Sherman
Way and they look very bad, the Democrats do. I just want to tell the American.
- [02:04]
Joe Matthew
People you should not forget this.
- [02:06]
Congressman Brad Sherman
When we come up to midterms and.
- [02:08]
Joe Matthew
Other things, don't forget what they've done to our country.
- [02:10]
Congressman Brad Sherman
We'll work on something having to do with health care.
- [02:13]
Joe Matthew
We can do a lot better.
- [02:14]
Congressman Brad Sherman
We can do great.
- [02:17]
Joe Matthew
Around 10:30 last night in the Oval Office and a big round of applause for the President as he put the Sharpie to paper. And we start with what's going on ahead of our conversation with Congressman Brad Sherman. The Democrat from California will be with us in just a moment. We start with Laura Davison, our deputy Washington bureau chief here at the table. Laura, this is seen as a good moment for the president, or at least he was casting it as a good moment, a victory, he called it. Did anyone actually win here?
- [02:43]
Laura Davison
No one actually won. In fact, a lot of people lost in terms of federal workers who went without pay and SNAP benefit recipients. From a political angle, Republicans came out ahead. They didn't have to make any concessions. They sort of staked their territory. And it was ultimately a handful of Democrats, moderate Democrats in the Senate, who said, look, we just want to get this over with and move on to the next fight, which will theoretically be this Affordable Care act subsidy. Though it's unclear, you know, if they're going to actually achieve what they're looking for here to get those premium tax credits renewed before the end of the year.
- [03:14]
Tyler Kendall
Have we gotten any update from the administration on when Americans could see relief? You mentioned the food benefits, but also what about our air travel system? Because we know that that has caused thousands of delays and cancellations across the country.
- [03:26]
Laura Davison
We're looking about at about a week for things to return to normal. So the Secretary Duffy said air travel will take about a week. That puts it right before the Thanksgiving holiday when air travel gets really busy. Also, for people expecting SNAP benefits, there's only two processors in the entire country that do all 50 states. So there could be a backlog there as everyone is trying to get those up and running, you know, today and through the weekend. Federal workers who are waiting for their paychecks, they can start should start receiving money as soon as Saturday, but it may take again until next Wednesday. There's also going to be a higher withholding rate so that they may have to wait. Their paychecks may be smaller than anticipated and they'll get that in a refund next year. So there's not, you know, this is not a no one is held completely harmless here. There are, you know, some latent effects that will continue.
- [04:08]
Joe Matthew
Wow. Remarkable. So, all right, everybody comes back next week with, with new vigor. I guess there's going to be a debate over health care, but we still don't have a plan from Republicans. Right. So this starts as a debate over extending Obamacare subsidies, or are we starting from scratch? Because we're hearing from Republicans that Obamacare simply makes health less affordable and they like the president's idea of sending money directly to people.
- [04:33]
Laura Davison
This is really going to be a political mess. You have Democrats who don't even know exactly what their ask is. You know, they will kind of get the first move in the Senate to put some bill forward, but in the House and with the president, you have them talking about, you know, doing Some sort of repeal and replace thing when it comes to Affordable Care. And, you know, didn't go so well the last time. You even heard Trump in the Oval Office last night saying, you know, he doesn't want to have these insurance subsidies go to insurance companies. He wants them to go to people directly and then they can buy insurance. It's unclear who they would buy insurance from if not from a health insurance company. So there's a lot of sort of conceptual questions that haven't even been answered, much less to this brass tax of what is the bill and how does it move forward?
- [05:09]
Tyler Kendall
So that's health care, which is going to be an issue. But what about what funding the government is actually about the spending levels for the rest of the fiscal year? Because this minibus will fund some agencies through the rest of the fiscal year. But it leaves a lot an open question, and it sounds like Senate Republicans and House Republicans aren't really on the same page when it comes to the sort of spending levels that we could see going forward. Could that cause a shutdown on January 30th?
- [05:35]
Laura Davison
It absolutely could. Basically, the way they structured this bill is they gave themselves until January 30th to get through all these additional funding bills through the government. You know, they said, okay, look, we have a couple months, but remember, there's a lot that happens between now and then. They're going to be out for the Thanksgiving holiday, out for Christmas. Then suddenly they will be back and that deadline will be bearing down on both chambers of Congress again to get all of this work done. And emotions are not going to be in a great place. There will probably be some tension over this health care fight. There may be tens, you know, whatever new political crisis comes up within the next couple of months. So we should not expect that things will be smooth sailing come the end of January. People should definitely keep their calendars open.
- [06:11]
Joe Matthew
Oh, my God. Okay. In the meantime, then, when we start considering the idea of regular order, that would require a lot more work to actually get all 12 spending bills together, do we potentially see another CR? I mean, how serious are we about regular order? Because that hasn't actually taken place in a generation.
- [06:28]
Laura Davison
I feel very safe to say that we are not serious about regular order in the US Congress. It could be another situation like we've seen here, of a minibus. You know, a couple of those bills packaged together with another CR and there's just an iterative process to get this done, or it could just be a straight blanket cr. Democrats are going to have to figure out their strategy, you know, do they, do they try to force a shutdown or play a game of chicken again, or do they just say, look, we need to get this resolved? The political calculations for both sides will be different in January. You're just that much closer to the midterms. And so those are the things. Democrats are also hoping that Republicans are feeling pressure from this health care fight if there isn't a resolution by the end of the year, that they're suddenly, you know, they're hearing from their constituents. You know, ACA subsidies, you know, tend more towards Republican states than Democratic ones. So there's, there's definitely not no political risk there for Republicans.
- [07:15]
Tyler Kendall
All right. Well, we may have the chance to pose that question to a Democrat coming up here on Balance of Power. Laura Davison, deputy bureau chief here in our Washington bureau, thank you as always. And for more, we turn now to Congressman Brad Sherman. He's a Democrat representing California's 42nd district. He joins us live now from Capitol Hill. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us here on Bloomberg. I just want to start with Big picture. Get your perspective here. First, what did Democrats achieve now that the government's reopened?
- [07:44]
Congressman Brad Sherman
Well, at very least, we raised the awareness that we're about to see a doubling of these premiums. First, 24 million Americans. Hopefully, people will be calling the White House and demanding that we fund those premium subsidy the same way we have for the last several years. And hopefully the president will get the message. Instead, what he's doing is he's throwing out just to distract people, the idea, well, maybe you'll get the money and some of you will get the health care, too. If he had a particular proposal, that would be fine. But since he came down that escalator, he's been saying he, he's going to replace Obamacare with something much, much better. And he'll tell you next week what it is. And his objective is to destroy Obamacare and replace it with nothing.
- [08:37]
Arshi Siddiqui
Wow.
- [08:39]
Joe Matthew
Congressman, I appreciate your joining us and staying in town here. I know a lot of folks have already left. I'm just wondering if you think this was worth it. Did Democrats in the Senate crossover too early? Because we kept hearing that a promise of a vote was not enough. And it looks like there is no promise in the House.
- [08:57]
Congressman Brad Sherman
The promise of a vote is illusory. Even if they were to vote it on the Senate, it probably wouldn't pass because Republicans would vote against it. Even if it passes Senate, it would be shredded as soon as Mike Johnson, the House speaker, got his hands on it so that's an illusory promise. What we really need is to bring down the cost of the overall health care system. And that requires, I think, adopting Medicare for All. We've just got a crazy and complicated and very expensive system in this country. Medicare for all is the way to make it sane. Also, I'll be introducing a bill later this month or early next month to regulate all pharmaceutical prices the same way we regulate electric prices.
- [09:39]
Tyler Kendall
Well, I appreciate you bringing up some tangible policy solutions we could see to help lower costs for Americans when it comes to health care, because we've heard Republicans say that just extending the Affordable Care act premium subsidies would be putting a subsidy on top of subsidies. That's often the talking point that we hear. But I'm wondering, do we need to see an extension first when it comes to these tax credits in order for there to be time down the road to negotiate on a fuller deal like you might be outlining here?
- [10:11]
Congressman Brad Sherman
Look, President Trump keeps talking about abolishing Obamacare and replacing it with something even better, and he won't propose anything progressive Democrats have. We call it Medicare for All, but that's not a solution to the problem that we have. In the next six weeks, those premiums are going to double. We need those subsidies restored. And if millions of people will call the White House and say that it'll.
- [10:38]
Joe Matthew
Happen, Medicare for All. Congressman, you're bringing us back to 2008, 2009. If Barack Obama could not get that done, how do you do it with this Congress?
- [10:50]
Congressman Brad Sherman
Well, we, we tried Obamacare. It's work, I think, reasonably well. Republicans think it needs to be repealed and replaced. They don't have a proposal. We do. And I think that as more and more attention is paid to our health care system, we'll realize that we are by far not the healthiest of the rich countries in the world, but we pay usually about double for health care. What other advanced countries do. A system of covering everyone makes sense and would be a lot less expensive.
- [11:26]
Tyler Kendall
Have you gotten any indications from Republicans that this is something that they would negotiate on? Have any talks been happening on Capitol Hill? I realize you've only been back for one day, but it is clear that this has been the issue that we've been teeing up for a conversation on this entire shutdown.
- [11:45]
Congressman Brad Sherman
There are a few Republicans that want to restore the Obamacare subsidies more in the Senate perhaps than in the House. But Republican leadership, I think is going to try to do either nothing or do just a little bit so they can say they did something. But they're hell bent on even increasing the tax cuts for the very wealthy, and they know they can't do that without gutting programs like. Like Obamacare.
- [12:18]
Joe Matthew
I want to ask you about the discharge petition that we now understand will get a vote next week to release the Epstein files. We spoke yesterday with Ro Khanna and with Tim Burchett about their efforts here to get the files out. And I'm wondering if you're prepared for that vote and if that's as far as we go. Congressman, it doesn't appear to have support in the Senate. The President would have to sign it, right? Is, is the Oversight Committee the best venue for these documents?
- [12:45]
Congressman Brad Sherman
Well, the best venue is the floor of the House, and we will be voting on that next month. But it's going to take a lot of political pressure to get the Senate to vote on it. The reason for that is that in the House you have a discharge petition process so 218 members can sign and a few Republicans joined us. In the Senate, it would take a lot of pressure on Thune because there is no discharge petition process. There's only popular will.
- [13:15]
Tyler Kendall
But is there any indication that that pressure is building or is this going to be a futile exercise if ultimately these documents don't get released?
- [13:25]
Congressman Brad Sherman
I think that this is the issue that will not die and that eventually the public will demand the release of the files. You see the release of some of those files just this week. We're going to continue to have that. And ultimately the President is going to have to explain what his relationship with Epstein was and why he is so opposed to releasing the documents.
- [13:53]
Joe Matthew
You know, you step back from all of this, Congressman, I just wonder how you're feeling today. We've been talking with Democrats and Republicans over the past 48 hours, and in fact, over this entire shutdown and now that we've actually got the government back open, everybody seems to have some kind of a hangover, in a bad mood. There's a lot of concern about the health care debate coming, whether we shut down again in January, what the President's going to do next, where the leadership is on everything that we've been talking about. How would you describe this political moment that we're in?
- [14:22]
Congressman Brad Sherman
This country is more divided than it's been since the 1860s, and hopefully there'll be more people who say, I know I want this or I want that, but what I really want is a compromise that gives the other side something as well. I haven't seen that from either side of the political spectrum. And all the Polls are telling and a lot of the problem is your phone, which is programmed to give you opinions that push you in the direction you're already in. And I wish I had a solution to that. But hopefully people are getting more of a reasonable and centrist view here on Bloomberg.
- [15:05]
Joe Matthew
So throw your phone in the water, Tyler.
- [15:08]
Tyler Kendall
If only.
- [15:09]
Congressman Brad Sherman
Absolutely. Watch Bloomberg. Throw away your phone.
- [15:11]
Joe Matthew
Yep.
- [15:13]
Tyler Kendall
Oh well, that's the political stakes perhaps. I also wanted to pull on your expertise on the House Financial Services Committee and asked about the economic stakes here because the NEC director Kevin Hassett today said that we may not get the unemployment rate for October if hindsight's 20 20. We're talking about the stakes right now. Do you think in a different world we should have deemed data essential so that we could have accurate forecasts for the economy?
- [15:37]
Congressman Brad Sherman
Absolutely. I think that what the Bureau of Labor Statistics does is essential and I know it's been derided by this administration. But the fact is that you talk to people, they think there's inflation. The the statisticians have shown us there's inflation. The only guy who doesn't see inflation is Donald Trump.
- [16:00]
Joe Matthew
It's good to have you back with us, Congressman. Safe travels. Getting home. Brad Sherman, the Democrat from California with us on Bloomberg TV and radio. And Tyler really does give you a sense of that kind of feeling of despair right now ahead of the holidays and before this debate begins.
- [16:14]
Tyler Kendall
And lack of trust really, Joe, which is something that both sides of the aisle have told us about, but it seems really poignant on the Democrats and.
- [16:22]
Joe Matthew
Stay with us on balance of power. We'll have much more coming up after this.
- [16:28]
Public.com Announcer
Support for the show comes from public.com you're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic option plays on the side. The point is you're engaged with your investments and Public gets that. That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can put together a multi asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto, it's all there. Plus an industry leading 3.6% APY high yield cash account. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves the risk of loss including loss of principal. Brokerage services for U.S. listed registered securities options and bonds in a self directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Crypto trading provided by Zero Hash. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures.
- [17:29]
Narrator/Announcer
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg business app Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [17:45]
Joe Matthew
How about this? Yesterday, the US Treasurer, Brandon beach, presiding over the stamping of the final set of pennies at the Philadelphia Mint. And this is, you know, by order of President Trump. It was back in February, he announced on Truth Social. For far too long, the United States has minted pennies which literally cost us more than 2 cents. This is so wasteful, he said. I've instructed my secretary of the U.S. treasury to stop producing new pennies. Let's rip the waste out of our great nation's budget, even if it's a penny at a time. He didn't write that one, did he, James? That somebody else put some time into that, even if it's a penny at a time. I don't feel like that's true. Now, as I mentioned, there's a whole lot of them still in circulation, so you're going to still be seeing pennies. But then we're told some stores can't even get their hands on pennies anymore because they're going extinct. So let's get to the bottom of this. Producer James and I have fantasized about this panel, the Power Penny panel, only on Bloomberg. There are two men up to the job. Bloomberg's Stephen Dennis, who's been following this story closer than any journalist really should, and Dan Flatley, who of course covers the treasury for us. Look at these guys. Get on YouTube right now. Search Bloomberg Business News Live. Gentlemen, it's great to see you, Steve. You know, if the President says it's time to rip the waste out of our great nation's budget, the nickel would be the place to start, wouldn't it? Let's. Let's go to the beginning now and what this means for the United States as the institutionalist you are to say goodbye to the penny. Are you doing okay?
- [19:20]
Stephen Dennis
No, I mean, this is really a moment that arguably should have happened 20 years ago. That's when we started. That's when the penny started costing more to make than it was worth. And there were jokes on TV shows like the West Wing about how you useless. The penny was one of the reasons why there are 300 billion pennies in circulation, according to the treasurer's estimate is because they are so Useless in the eyes of consumers. You know, if you actually were using them, they wouldn't be in circulation. People would be spending them and not putting them in jars in their basements where Most of those 300 billion pennies are. So it just, you know, it's one of those things where everybody that I talked to in Washington kind of saw the penny as a joke for a long time. But up until the super bowl moment with that tweet, people weren't willing to take on this issue.
- [20:20]
Joe Matthew
This super bowl moment, Dan, flatly. I'm sure you could feel the ground shake at the treasury when this took place. I'm curious what happens. We're going to talk to Congressman from Pennsylvania a little bit later on, the ranking member on the Budget Committee. What happens to this mint that's been making these since the 1700s? Dan?
- [20:40]
Dan Flatley
Yeah, you know, it's a great question, Joe. I mean, I'm sort of a ranked nostalgist, so, you know, losing the penny, I felt a little sad. There were some great pieces yesterday. You know, we wrote about it, obviously, but basically everybody who covers treasury wrote, wrote something. It was kind of a unique moment because everybody who covers treasury wrote something about the demise of the penny, and they all sort of had their own unique kind of take on it. I think the Times did like an obituary of the penny and, you know, our friends over the Wall Street Journal did, did something, you know, in a similar vein. And so, yeah, it was, it was definitely a moment. I do think, you know, it's not a small thing. You know, Steve probably has the figures closer at hand, but let's say it's roughly around 3/4 of all transactions are done digitally. Now, maybe there's a fourth or so that are still done in cash. But for those transactions that are conducted in cash, you have to give exact change. A lot of times it varies state to state. There's a sort of a patchwork of laws, but it does create some complications. I'm not saying that it's a reason to keep the penny around forever, necessarily, but it does create some complications. And so you did have a couple of folks yesterday come out, including a association representing retailers, saying Congress needs to act here, provide some clarity. And that's kind of what we're waiting for now. So we'll, we'll see. I'd be curious to hear what the, what the representative has to say.
- [22:12]
Joe Matthew
Well, yeah, we'll get into this a little bit later on. Brendan Boyle will be here. So Dan points us to the real news here. This isn't Just a nostalgia show. Although I know there are some folks who are feeling a little sad right now. Retailers, Steve, want Congress to authorize rounding prices up to override state and local laws and food stamp regulations. We invoke SNAP here against the practice. So we're not going to see any more. 299, 399. And then by extension, once they get rid of the nickel, what's the point anyway? Why don't we just charge dollars?
- [22:50]
Stephen Dennis
Yeah, I mean, the reality Is for the 84% and rising of people who pay with digital dollars already, they're going to see no difference what the big fight is that the, you know, the, the retailers, I think what they don't want is if, say, you're owed 3 cents change, they don't want to have to give you 5 cents, they want to keep that 2 cents. So even though pennies are kind of worthless, if you're the Walmarts of the world or the targets of the world, and you have to deal with millions and millions of these transactions a year, that could affect their bottom line to the tune of millions of dollars. So this is sort of the lobbying fight. They also want to get clarity. So there's one rule across the country, not a patchwork of state laws. And there are some regulatory hurdles involving SNAP benefits. There are bills in Congress. They have been debated. It's possible it could be included in one of these upcoming spending bills. But, you know, this is the culmination of decades of lobbying to keep the penny, specifically by the company that's made the billions and billions of blanks in Tennessee called Artisan. You know, they funded lobbying campaigns and they were very successful for a long time until it got frankly, so ridiculous that we're spending almost four pennies to make every penny. And most of those pennies go straight into the trash drawer.
- [24:14]
Joe Matthew
The penny lobby. We're going to blow the lid off of that one next. Although maybe it doesn't exist anymore. I guess that's the point of this. You still carrying change around, Steve?
- [24:23]
Stephen Dennis
No. I mean, I haven't used cash in a very long time, except for occasionally to, like, tip mymythe person who cuts my hair. The only person I've seen in the US Capitol pay with pennies in the last couple years have basically been really old senators who are sort of stuck in their ways. And, you know, you're kind of waiting behind them in line and you're thinking, I'm thinking to myself, okay, this guy is wasting 10 cents of his, 10 seconds of his very valuable time. Because they're a US senator. 10 seconds of my very valuable time, 10 seconds of the cashier's time, and then that penny has to go be counted and then sent to a bank on a truck and then from the bank to the Fed on another truck and from the Fed to a retailer on another truck for a penny. And it just strikes me as kind of silly that we still have them, but, you know, it is a part of Americana. You know, a penny saved is a penny earned. A penny for your thoughts. And we are losing something, except there are 300 billion out there. Now, here's one thing that government doesn't, one thing the government really does not want you to do. They don't want people to panic and give them back their pennies. The last thing the government needs is to have 300 billion pennies returned to banks this week. That's one of the reasons, I think, why the treasurer is saying, hey, it's still legal tender. You don't need to give it to us fast because there have been studies done on this. But when John McCain tried to get rid of the penny during the first Trump administration that warned, hey, it would cost us lots and lots of money if people did that, because we don't have the facilities to securely store 300 billion pennies.
- [26:10]
Joe Matthew
You know, Rick Davis is listening to this. We're going to talk to him in a moment about John McCain's role here. Danny, you carry and change around you. You keep a couple dollars in your pocket.
- [26:21]
Dan Flatley
I come to the penny, but to bury it. But wow. I, I will give two quick thoughts, you know, in response to Steve's commentary there. I mean, one, I was at the drugstore over the weekend and all the cash registers, the self serve, everything went down at the same time. And the clerk behind the counter said, do you have any cash? Of course they said, no, I don't have any cash. And so I had to put my stuff back and walk out because they weren't conducting transactions digitally. So that does happen from time to time. And the other thing was, you know, I thought on a more, again, nostalgic note, but, you know, Derek Tyer, who's performing the duties of the Deputy secretary, was at the Mint yesterday.
- [27:02]
Joe Matthew
And one of the things that he.
- [27:03]
Dan Flatley
Said which was interesting was he noted that the penny bears the imprint of Abraham Lincoln. And he talked about the history there. And he did say, which I thought was kind of funny and I put it in the story, but he said, you know, as somebody who has studied and practices accounting, I appreciate, you know, that Abraham Lincoln was always diligent about getting everybody the penny, you know, down to the exact change and all of that. So I mean, I think to Steve's point, we're probably better off without the penny. It makes sense, but all right, I will miss it.
- [27:33]
Joe Matthew
The nickel reassembling our panel here when the nickel goes away because I'm guessing that comes Steve Dennis, Dan Flatley, thank you for fulfilling your mission on this passion project only at Bloomberg now you need to figure out what to do with all those dirty pennies. I can't help you there. We'll assemble our panel next only on Bloomberg Radio. Stay with us. On Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this.
- [28:02]
Public.com Announcer
Support for the show comes from public.com you're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic option plays on the side. The point is you're engaged with your investments and Public gets that. That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can put together a multi asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto, it's all there. Plus an industry leading 3.6% APY high yield cash account. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. Brokerage services for U.S. listed registered securities options and bonds in a self directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Crypto trading provided by ZeroHash. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures.
- [29:02]
Narrator/Announcer
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.
- [29:17]
Joe Matthew
Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30 the government is reopened. We thought there'd be some optimism around this, but guess what? Everyone in Washington is still upset as well. Well, no deal yet on a health care extension in terms of subsidies. No common ground when it comes to health care at all, it sounds like. And of course the CR only goes to January 30th, so there are worries about whether we're counting down to another shutdown in the new year. All of this, of course, has yet to become known. With the President of the United States taking a victory lap last evening, he did sign that bill. So we're reopened. We're waiting for the airports to snap benefits and everything else. Paychecks for federal workers to follow. The newest member of Congress, by the way, has. Has had the lapel pin for less than 24 hours. It was 4 o' clock in the afternoon yesterday, right before they got to voting that Adelita Grijalva of Arizona, the Democrat, was actually sworn in, having waited through the entire shutdown. Speaker Johnson had said he was following the Pelosi precedent. We'll ask Arshi about that in a minute. But there was a speech. We had the formal swearing in. Congresswoman Grijalva had this to say.
- [30:32]
Laura Davison
It has been 50 days since the.
- [30:35]
Tyler Kendall
People of Arizona's 7th congressional district elected me to represent them. 50 days that over 800,000 Arizonans have been left without access to the basic services that every constituent deserves.
- [30:53]
Narrator/Announcer
This is an abuse of power.
- [30:55]
Tyler Kendall
I will sign the discharge petition right now to release the Epstein files. Justice cannot wait another day.
- [31:05]
Joe Matthew
She said it. We'll talk about the Epstein files as well and the discharge petition that now has the votes. That's why many thought she had to wait over 50 days to stall this whole effort. And now we understand the discharge petition will get a vote next week, not in early December, as both Ro Khanna and Tim Burchett told us yesterday. So let's bring in the panel on all of this. The end of the shutdown, and yes, the Epstein files. Rick Davis is here, Bloomberg Politics contributor, Republican strategist and partner at Stone Court Capital. And with me in studio, Archie Siddiqui, former senior aide to the aforementioned House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, founder, CEO, Bellwether Government affairs, our Democratic strategist. Great to see both of you here. And Archie, I'll start with you on this. The symbolism of that swearing in was clearly meaningful for Democrats in the chamber beyond the Epstein files.
- [31:53]
Arshi Siddiqui
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think it shows that elections matter. And having it was interesting. It did take her 50 days, which, given the state of the world, affordability, all these issues that are going on, it was a little bit. It was jarring, I think, for Democrats. But I think it's one more seat, one more person to fight for constituents.
- [32:13]
Joe Matthew
And on this affordability agenda, Pelosi precedent, a real thing. Speaker Johnson said he was simply doing what Nancy Pelosi had done before him.
- [32:20]
Arshi Siddiqui
I think if Speaker Johnson was taking, I guess, a template from Speaker Pelosi, then it probably would have been maybe on the shutdown negotiation, bicameral, bipartisan negotiations. So it's this picking and choosing and cherry picking. I would say no comment.
- [32:35]
Joe Matthew
All right, Rick, how are you feeling today? Because everybody we talked to last night, Deez and ours were all in a bad mood. Nobody's on the same page with health care. The president's angry, is trying to score points last evening saying, remember what they did here to partially ruin the country. We still have a couple hundred thousand workers who have yet to be paid. How do you pick up the pieces from the longest shutdown in history?
- [32:58]
Rick Davis
Yeah, it's amazing how miserable Washington comes when they overcome misery. The Washington shutdown was not good.
- [33:06]
Joe Matthew
And.
- [33:07]
Rick Davis
And the fact that everyone immediately is, instead of celebrating the fact that they finally got a bipartisan solution to this. And by the way, Republicans should be thrilled they took our deal. Right? I mean, like, I don't really get why any Republican would argue about this. It's the first time they've sort of stuck to the negotiation and said, this is the only thing we're going to say yes to. And the Democrats capitulated and gave it to them.
- [33:32]
Joe Matthew
So, I don't know.
- [33:33]
Rick Davis
I mean, maybe it's just the time of year. Maybe it's kind of grumpy before Christmas. I mean, there's a Grinch aspect to this that I don't understand. But look, that part's over. And now we get to fight over the fun stuff, real stuff, health care and Jeffrey Epstein, which I'm not sure is real, but that's definitely going to get its, you know, time in court.
- [33:57]
Joe Matthew
God. Well, yes, indeed. And we're going to get into that in a moment. I do want to mention we just heard from Senator John Fetterman's office, and I'm just reading this with you for the first time. During an early morning walk, Senator Fetterman sustained a fall near his home in Braddock, and they say out of an abundance of caution, he was transported to a hospital in Pittsburgh. Upon evaluation, it was established that he had a ventricular fibrillation flare up that led the senator to feeling lightheaded, falling to the ground, hitting his face. And he did sustain minor injuries. It says the senator had this to say. If you thought my face looked bad before, wait till you see it now. So he's at least got his sense of humor with him still. And we'll let you know if anything else comes from all of this. Senator John Fetterman falling this morning while he was out for a walk. So let's talk about this effort to expose the Epstein files, because if you've been reading anything recently, you see that many are being exposed having been released through the oversight Committee in the House. Democrats. Democrats released a couple of selected emails yesterday, didn't make the President look very great. And then Republicans dropped about 20,000 documents here as they had promised to do in this effort. The Speaker, Mike Johnson was asked about all of this last evening, the effort to bring this through the committee and also by the discharge petition we were just talking about. Here's Mike Johnson. We have been for maximum transparency of the Epstein files from the very beginning. What I was opposed to is the reckless disregard that was used in drafting the discharge petition. And we've been over this many times, but it was not drafted in such a way that it would adequately protect innocent victims. We have a responsibility to do that. There's many as a thousand women by some estimates of people who have been victimized because of the sex trafficking and Epstein and all these horrendous, heinous crimes. And we can't have them subjected to any further harm. So we wanted to make sure that they were properly whose names were properly redacted out of the files. But the discharge petition is not only reckless, it is also a totally moot point. So let's get into this for a minute. Arshi, let's get real about this. Let's say it actually passes and we understand that 40 to 50 Republicans probably vote yes on this, then it goes to the Senate where it could die. And even if it passes the Senate, the President would need to sign it. So what's this effort all about? Is it simply getting people on the record?
- [36:18]
Arshi Siddiqui
Well, I think it's interesting what Speaker Johnson, the way he laid it out, because discharge petitions, as you know, are not the ideal preferred way to make policy. They are a procedural tool for the minority. They really push the envelope, but they certainly are not well suited. So there, there was a way to do a bipartisan effort to actually come up with smart legislation that actually does focus on these women, a thousand women A as the speaker mentioned. And this is, this is serious stuff there. There are many of these victims really want accountability. They want transparency. And that is the charge. And it's up to the the House and Senate to, to put that pressure on the White House to get this over the finish line.
- [36:57]
Joe Matthew
Is the discharge petition a waste of time, Rick, or is it important to get people on the record, in this case likely Republicans who would potentially be voting no?
- [37:08]
Rick Davis
Yeah, if you look at it from the perspective of sort of the Republican MAGA base that has been pushing for this and it's been promised to them, you know, throughout multiple campaigns by the President, United States and other leaders. The reality is they're not going to be happy, right? I mean, like, even though the focus is on Congresswoman Grijalva and being the 218th vote, this has been something Republicans have been talking about for a long time. And they're not going to be successful. I mean, as you pointed out, the process will work against them. Sure, they'll get this discharge petition done next week, It'll go to the Senate where it likely will die, but it will not have Donald Trump's pen attached to it. I mean, this won't be one of the beautiful signatures on a fancy leather bound document. And so what's going to happen then? I mean, like, it's really quite of a trap, if anything, a great trap set by Democrats to make Republicans look like hypocrites because they haven't used the offices of the DOJ to distribute this information, which they said they would do. And so honestly, I think that, you know, no matter what happens, it's going to be a mark on Republican leadership, not making their base happy. All that being said, the trap is also set for the Democrats because talking about Jeffrey Epstein is not talking about affordability, is not talking about health care, is not talking about their wins last Tuesday at elections. I mean, they are way off message. The Epstein files will not succeed as being an electoral issue. It's just a distraction and frankly, one probably welcomed by some Republicans at this point.
- [38:50]
Joe Matthew
Wow, Fascinating. We heard from Lauren Boebert yesterday who apparently got an invite to come over to the White House and was sat down to talk about maybe reportedly removing her name from the discharge petition. She went on Twitter after and wrote simply, I want to thank White House officials for meeting with me today. Together, we remain committed to ensuring transparency for the American people. Doesn't sound like she can repeat much of what she heard. Nancy May apparently getting the same phone call playing phone tag. Why would the President be trying to remove Republicans at this 11th hour?
- [39:25]
Arshi Siddiqui
You know, it's interesting. I think it goes back to what Rick was talking about in terms of the Republican base and how this was, this was a promise. And you know, the Congresswoman Grijalva's election really did break the logjam till this point. It actually, this issue has been shoved in the wayside. One place where I would push back a little bit with Rick is, is this isn't about electoral politics. This is actually about the young women who were, who were harmed and creating kind of some sort of sense of closure and some sort of path forward?
- [39:55]
Joe Matthew
Well, you know, the line from Republicans, Mike Lawler said it to us even last evening, Tim Burchett said Democrats do not care about these victims. They are just motivated by politics to make Republicans and specifically Donald Trump look bad. Well, you look at it, it's a pretty tough line.
- [40:09]
Arshi Siddiqui
It's a tough line. And on top of it, look at, I mean, if I think Rick is right, if anything, if Democrats were being political, it would be talk about, especially after these last elections, talk about affordability, double down there and put this in the background. But I think at every level, Democrats know that they have to push this forward to do the right thing by these women.
- [40:30]
Joe Matthew
You know what else Tim Burchett suggested last evening, Rick, that we've heard from a lot of Republicans, is that if there was actually something in here that would damage Donald Trump, Democrats would have pulled this out during the campaign. Is there not some truth to that?
- [40:43]
Rick Davis
Well, some of these records have not been seen by anybody, Democrats or Republicans alike. And so it's hard to tell who had eyes on any of this stuff. And look, I mean, it's pretty clear that the only reason Republicans released the 20,000 pages they released is because the Democrats released a few dozen pages that were specific to Donald Trump. So honestly, I mean, it's just the lack of transparency and honesty in this process is pretty sad. But again, it's all off message. Republicans shouldn't be talking about this and Democrats are going to miss an opportunity by talking about this. And the whole thing, I think, is just a distraction to the American people. None of these promises should have been made. This should have been done through a legal channel and nothing more. It's not, you know, I agree it shouldn't be a political issue, but it's one now and it's going to occupy a lot of our time. But I would also remind everybody, once you've signed a discharge position and it goes live, in other words, it has the 218th, you can't take your name off of it. It's actually outside the rules. So hauling these people over the White House last night just added more fodder to this notion that what do they have any idea what happens on Capitol Hill procedurally because they can't remove their name?
- [42:03]
Joe Matthew
Yeah, well, maybe that's why they called her before Grijalva was sworn in. That's a great point, Rick. Fascinating conversation. That's going to get louder next week because we're going to have the vote on the discharge petition and reportedly Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie will be having another news conference with victims, so prepare to hear a lot more of this. Rick Davis and Arshi Siddiqui thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, D.C. at Noontime Eastern@Bloomberg.com.
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