Shutdown Gets Dose of Urgency

Summary

Podcast Summary — Balance of Power: "Shutdown Gets Dose of Urgency"

Date: October 29, 2025
Hosts: Joe Weisenthal, Kailey Leinz, Bloomberg Washington Correspondents
Main Guests: Tyler Kendall (Bloomberg, reporting from South Korea), Michael McKee (Bloomberg Fed Reporter), Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV), Rep. Chuck Fleischmann (R-TN)

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Overview

This episode dives into the urgent and ongoing U.S. government shutdown, now at a historic 29 days, and the high-stakes policy clashes stalling reopening efforts. With Congress gridlocked, the show covers attempts to break the deadlock, the real-life impact on citizens and federal workers, and the broader economic implications—especially in light of a looming critical Federal Reserve decision made without key economic data. The conversation also explores big ongoing stories, including U.S.-China trade diplomacy (with President Trump meeting Xi Jinping in Korea), the fate of crucial benefits programs like SNAP, and the energy demands of AI expansion.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Government Shutdown: No End in Sight

• The shutdown, now 29 days old, is already the longest full closure in U.S. history.
• Congressional votes to reopen the government continue to fail, and there is little optimism about a breakthrough.
• Critical public services are under threat—with specific focus on SNAP/food stamps and WIC, military pay, air traffic control, and other federal worker impacts.

Notable Quotes:

• "This is already a record full shutdown and there's going to be an attempt to vote on some legislation...[but] there is no off ramp still today."
  — Joe Weisenthal ([12:23])

• “It is such a disservice to not just the air traffic controllers, but to every single federal employee... And not to mention the troops, the Coast Guard, the TSA agents, all of these folks. And so simply open the government, get the money from flowing to those that are working and have worked and provide the services.”
  — Sen. Shelley Moore Capito ([20:55])

• "We have hurt the American people, we've hurt the American economy, we've hurt the American republic, and we've hurt the credibility of the House and Senate. At a time when it's at an all time low, this should have never, ever happened."
  — Rep. Chuck Fleischmann ([31:20])

Timestamps:

• [12:23]–[14:43]: Discussion on failed votes, negative impacts, and political finger-pointing (Weisenthal, Capito)
• [16:38]–[17:54]: Capito on the personal cost of benefit lapses
• [29:09]–[32:44]: Fleischmann on constituent services and working during the shutdown

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2. Stalled Negotiations and Political Blame

• Ongoing partisan blame with Democrats and Republicans accusing each other for the impasse.
• Multiple attempts with "clean CRs" (continuing resolutions) have failed.
• Legislation is being proposed to salvage benefits (SNAP, WIC) as band-aid solutions.

Notable Quotes:

• "He knows there's broad Republican support for [SNAP benefits], and he doesn't put it on the floor. He's afraid of Trump."
  — Chuck Schumer clip, referenced by Joe Weisenthal ([13:50], [27:42])

• “This was a Schumer shutdown for political purposes. It's wrong. It's plain and simple... Chuck Schumer needs to open the government up. It's a farce.”
  — Rep. Chuck Fleischmann ([31:20])

Timestamps:

• [13:50]–[14:43]: Schumer's remarks and Capito’s response
• [27:42]–[28:00]: Revisiting the Senate standoff; SNAP funding debate

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3. Critical Federal Reserve Decision Without Data

• The shutdown has paralyzed the release of key economic statistics; the Fed must decide on a rate cut in this "data drought".
• Most expect a 25 basis point cut, but implications are unclear without concrete numbers.
• Major tech earnings could complicate the Fed’s stance if they hint at robust economic strength.

Notable Quotes:

• “We're going to get a 25 basis point cut from the Fed... The question... is whether they end the cutting. We've seen a lot more borrowing from the standing repo facility... suggesting they have hit the inflection point where they're getting to the point where there's not enough reserves in the system.”
  — Michael McKee ([06:08])

• "So they're guessing like we are on this."
  — Joe Weisenthal, about the Fed missing economic data ([10:08])

Timestamps:

• [06:08]–[10:10]: Fed preview and challenges discussed (Weisenthal, McKee)

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4. U.S.-China Relations & Global Trade Diplomacy

• President Trump is in South Korea for the APEC summit, preparing for a key meeting with Xi Jinping.
• There are encouraging developments on trade, such as:
  • Extension of the trade truce with China.
  • China's import of U.S. soybeans for the first time this season.
  • Hints that restrictions on rare earth mineral exports may be delayed.
  • U.S. considering removing some proposed restrictions.
  • Discussion of lowering fentanyl-related tariffs.
  • Potential restoration of Nvidia's market access to China.

Notable Quotes:

• “These agreements will be incredible victories for all of us because everyone is better off when we have stable partnerships, not plagued by chronic problems and imbalances.”
  — President Trump (clip) ([02:10])

• “It does seem like we could potentially get some other tangible deliverables out of this... President Trump apparently going to bring up Nvidia's Blackwell chips with President Xi...”
  — Tyler Kendall ([03:30])

Timestamps:

• [02:10]–[05:27]: Reporting from South Korea, U.S.-China talks (Tyler Kendall, Trump clip)

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5. Congressional Voices: On the Importance of Appropriations & Energy Policy

• Both Capito and Fleischmann emphasize the need to move away from year-long CRs and return to “regular order” with detailed appropriations.
• Fleischmann, chair of multiple energy caucuses, underscores the need for American energy dominance, especially in nuclear.

Notable Quotes:

• "I don't want to devolve into a year long cr. We should never."
  — Rep. Chuck Fleischmann ([34:55])

• "Small modular reactors are part of the solution...The nuclear sector is booming. It's going to continue to boom."
  — Rep. Chuck Fleischmann ([36:02])

• “I want to have President Trump's priorities in the appropriations process. I want to have my priorities in the appropriations process.”
  — Sen. Shelley Moore Capito ([19:00])

Timestamps:

• [18:30]–[20:12]: Capito’s take on year-long CRs and appropriations
• [36:02]–[37:31]: Fleischmann on nuclear energy and its links to AI/data center expansion

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Memorable Moments

• Tyler Kendall Reporting from Korea at 1:15am:
  The sense of being on the ground and the time difference highlights the global stakes and time pressure.
  "Is Tyler Kendall the only person awake in South Korea right now? It's 1:00 o’ clock in the morning." ([05:27])

• Personal Impact Story from Capito:
  She paints a vivid picture of West Virginians—single mothers, elderly, disabled couples—affected by the SNAP benefit expiration.
  "That's a frightening prospect to think that she wouldn't have the money to feed her children or a disabled or elderly couple." ([16:38])

• Fleischmann on Staff Dedication:
  “They show up every day, as do I, without compensation, take calls, do the best they can with what they’ve got…this whole shutdown is outrageous.” ([29:09])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Shutdown overview & trade summit: [01:04]–[05:27]
• Fed decisions amid data drought: [06:08]–[10:10]
• Sen. Capito interview: [14:43]–[24:02]
• Rep. Fleischmann interview: [28:47]–[37:31]
• AI expansion, energy, Nvidia: [26:06]–[37:31]
• Political blame and solution options: Threaded throughout

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Conclusion

This episode vividly captures the high tensions and human consequences stemming from the protracted government shutdown. Through on-the-ground reporting and candid interviews with lawmakers, the hosts lay bare the intractable politics blocking solutions, while events like the Trump-Xi meeting and the surging AI sector serve as reminders that economic and geopolitical tides are still turning regardless of gridlock in Washington. The conversations balance insider perspectives with the urgent reality faced by ordinary Americans and highlight a hunger—among lawmakers and the public—for resolution and a return to effective governance.

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For news, context, and interviews as they happen, tune into Balance of Power weekdays.

Transcript

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah, you're halfway through the week and not a lot has changed. The government still closed. The Fed still expected to cut. All that will unfold today in real time. And we'll do this together, of course. Two o' clock is the magic hour here. Our special coverage starts at 1:30pm Eastern Time. We're going to talk momentarily with Michael McKee, who's got his bag ready. He's headed over the Fed. And yes, we'll try to get a sense of what he's asking today and whether Jay Powell can answer anything because we're in this data drought that's been making things pretty interesting around here. 29th of October. By God, it's almost November. You know, we have to turn the clocks back this week and the government will still be shut down. We'll talk later on this hour with Chuck Fleischman. The Republican from Tennessee is here. We'll play it to our panel as well. Jeannie Shan Zaino is with us. Ashley Davis, as we get our arms around everything that's happening today in the nation's capital and of course in South Korea. If you want to sound smart at the cocktail parties later. Busan is the coastal town in the south of South Korea where they're going to be meeting tomorrow, Trump and Xi after, of course, the president spent a couple days there already at the APEC summit talking about the progress that he's been making with trade. Listen to President Trump from earlier.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

Sean Ju on this trip alone, I've signed groundbreaking agreements with Malaysia, Cambodia, Japan. Our deal with the Republic of Korea will be finalized very soon, like moments or very shortly thereafter These agreements will be incredible victories for all of us because everyone is better off when we have stable partnerships, not plagued by chronic problems and imbalances. You know, probably, you know that President Xi of China is coming tomorrow here and we're going to be, I hope, making a deal. I think we're going to have a deal. I think it'll be a good deal for, for both.

[Joe Weisenthal]

And maybe that's why the market is in such a good mood this week. We just keep pushing higher on the idea that not only will we normalize relations or have some kind of a framework agreement with China, but they're talking Blackwells now. You saw this headline, look at in video Today, top and 205 was above $208 a little while ago after notching this all time high yesterday. Blackwells in China. We'll find out about this presumably in the next couple of days, but let's find out what we know right now. Tyler Kendall is on the other side of the world and joins us. She is traveling with the president. Right. Joins us from Zhongju, South Korea, where the APEC summit is underway. Tyler, what's going to come from this meeting with President Xi and what has Donald Trump accomplished already?

[Tyler Kendall]

Yeah. Hey, Joe. And Charlie said welcome back. So I say welcome back as well. There's a lot on the agenda ahead of tomorrow. Now, of course, we know that the top line that we're widely expecting is that there's going to be an extension to the trade truce that's currently in place. And we're going to see a poll hold back from some of the escalating tensions of the past few weeks. That includes China, which according to sources telling us here at Bloomberg, importing their first shipments of US Soybeans so far this harvest season, though relatively it appears to be a small amount. We'll see if we get any other information on just how much of these US Soybean supplies they are going to end up taking in. Also, we heard from the treasury secretary earlier this week that China is now backing off and delaying itself intended export curbs when it comes to critical and rare earth minerals. These sorts of headlines have really been dominating the conversation for the weeks leading up to this meeting. The US Itself taking off the table some of its own proposed restrictions, but not yet implemented. But then, Joe, we've sort of gotten this development in really the last few days that it does seem like we could potentially get some other tangible deliverables out of this. We're going to have to see how it shakes out. You, of course, Mentioned this news, President Trump apparently going to bring up Nvidia's Blackwell chips with the Chinese President Xi Jinping. Of course, this would be very good for the company, which has been trying to regain Chinese market access since 2020. 22. I pulled one of the statistics. Nvidia says that their market share in China went from a 95% peak to zero. So of course they're trying to get back into that market. And then also we've learned that there could be some movement when it comes to fentanyl tariffs. That would be pretty significant because maybe, Joe, it gives actually China lower tariff on the table, not just an extension to the current truce. We'll have to see what that would end up looking like. Currently, 20% of the tariff that is in place on China is tied to fentanyl, so maybe there could be some movement even there too.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Wow, Tyler, thank you. Is Tyler Kendall the only person awake in South Korea right now? It's 1:00 o' clock in the morning. I just. Yeah, it's 1:15am Tyler's got to get some rest, by the way. 10:00pm Eastern Time. So tonight is when President Trump will be sitting down with President Xi in what will be, of course, daylight hours tomorrow in South Korea. That'll be when you're going to bed this evening. And we're going to wake up presumably to a bunch of headlines tomorrow. We're going to have headlines long before then when the Fed wraps its two day meeting in Washington and Michael McKee is with us to get our arms around Our other top story today, Fed Day. Great to see you. It's like Christmas morning. God knows what we'll get, except we know exactly what we're going to get.

[Michael McKee]

Life is like a box of chocolates. Well, far be it for me to be the only person who doesn't welcome you back. So welcome back. Since it seems to be the theme of the day now, we're going to get a 25 basis point cut from the Fed. Jay Powell and the rest of the Open Market Committee essentially blessed that view in the markets and so we go ahead with that. And then the question that has come up really rapidly in the last two weeks is whether they do the end of Kutty. We've seen a lot more borrowing from the standing repo facility from the Fed, 10 billion today. And that suggests that they have hit the inflection point where they're getting to the point where there's not enough reserves in the system to meet demand. And so therefore they're probably going to have to Announce that they're going to make some sort of change. Only a question, whether they ended immediately, give us another month or. Or something like that. Then we have the news conference. And of course, what does Jay Powell say? He is not going to say we're definitely cutting in December, I can guarantee you that.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Sure. I mean, could he just cancel the news conference? What's he supposed to say when there's no data? Michael McKee is going to show up to ask a question that would be difficult to answer when we're swimming in data. And Jay Powell doesn't have anything to base an answer on?

[Michael McKee]

Well, basically he's going to say we're here to fight inflation and prop up the economy to provide maximum employment. That's our two mandates. And so we'll do that and they'll talk around it. He'll be asked many different ways, I'm sure. How, how are you measuring the economy? What are you looking at these days? And I think the bot answer is they're looking at all kinds of alternative data, but they're really talking to corporate leaders to figure out what they're going to do going forward. The problem they have is corporate leaders don't know because nobody knows what Donald Trump is going to do. And now we have this meeting, as you say, within just a couple of hours with Xi Jinping, and what are they going to come up with and how does that affect tariffs and how does that affect the overall economy?

[Joe Weisenthal]

So what's the conversation inside the Fed then? They're going to be looking at these headlines just like you and I are to try to figure out how this impacts policy. What takes place in the next 24 hours could mean what for the Fed?

[Michael McKee]

Well, that could depend because we may not have any data to know the results of what happens. I don't want to say that by December 10, the government won't be open. We hope so, but it's always possible. Now. They'll. They'll look to see. Basically their first question is, what's it going to mean for the labor market? That's what they're focused on at the moment. They're worried that unemployment is going to go shooting up. And we've had a lot of announcements from companies over the past couple of days as they report earnings that they're going to either hold down headcount or they're going to be reducing headcount. We haven't seen that in big numbers yet. The jobless claims numbers that we do get have kind of shown status quo. If we start to See things go up, then that means the Fed is probably going to lean towards cutting rates again. But we also don't have the inflation data. And if all these companies who are reporting today for 4 o', clock, Jay Powell is fish wrap because we have all these tech companies reporting. If they're saying that AI is going to, you know, be enormously beneficial to the economy and we're going to see a lot more profits being made and the Fed is then cutting rates into that, that's a problem as well.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Wow.

[Michael McKee]

So it's a real dilemma for them. And as Powell said last time, and I'm sure he'll say again, there is.

[Joe Weisenthal]

No risk free option in our remaining moment. We talked last time you were with us that day. The CPI data hit. The BLS has the most recent jobs report. Well, I guess it would be two jobs reports ago at this point. This is for September. I think I'm losing track. They compiled the data. You said that report sitting somewhere in a computer and could in fact be released. Did the Fed see those numbers? Is the Fed privy to what's inside that?

[Michael McKee]

No, the Fed would get the numbers. Jay Powell would be able to see the numbers night before, but they don't get them before that. So since it didn't even go to the White House, in theory, it wouldn't have gone to the Fed.

[Joe Weisenthal]

So they're guessing like we are on this.

[Michael McKee]

Two jobs reports in the same day or something like that. We'll have to figure that out.

[Joe Weisenthal]

You're on your way over there now, right?

[Tim Stenovec]

All right.

[Joe Weisenthal]

On his way to the Fed, the great Michael McKee, who you're going to be seeing and hearing from quite a bit later on, including in that news conference. We'll have that live for you when Michael squares off with Jay Powell in the friendliest way. Stay with us on balance of power. We'll have much more coming up after this.

[Tim Stenovec]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Joe Weisenthal]

Play Bloomberg 11:30 with a federal Reserve that is dealing with a major lack of data right now because of a government shutdown that is now 29 days old. This is what we're going to be talking about with the Senator from West Virginia in just a moment. Shelley Moore Capito is with us, knowing that the House is out of session, the President's out of the country, and the latest voting in the senate yesterday, number 13, lucky 13, the same as the first 12. The clean continuing resolution that Republicans passed in the House failed again. There is talk about rank and file talks getting under backroom conversations, but we've been hearing that for weeks. And the fact of the matter is there is no off ramp still today, so it won't take that much more to set a new record. The record is 35 days in the first Trump administration. Then again, that was a partial shutdown. This is already a record full shutdown and there's going to be an attempt to vote on some legislation. There's a Democratic version, actually, a couple of Democratic versions, and then there's the Josh Hawley version to fulfill SNAP benefits for the month of October. On the first. This is food stamps. We talk about snap. Food stamps will not be funded any longer and many thought this would be an inflection point to potentially break the logjam. Doesn't sound like it. As Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader in the Senate, was discussing earlier on the floor, listen, the bill is simple, it's.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

Moral, it's urgent and ask John Thune why he won't put it on the floor. He decries the fact that SNAP benefits are cut off.

[Joe Weisenthal]

He knows the money is available.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

He knows there's broad Republican support for it, and he doesn't put it on the floor.

[Joe Weisenthal]

He's afraid of Trump. So this doesn't sound like it's getting any better. And it's where we start our conversation, as I mentioned, with Republican Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia. She's live on Capitol Hill. And Senator, it's great to see you on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Our listeners should know, and we discussed this. JD Vance made a visit to Capitol Hill and it was, it was upon your invitation as chair of the Republican Policy Committee. What was the idea of having the vice president join the conversation and was it productive? Did he bring new ideas or hear ideas from you and your colleagues?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Well, it's always productive to have the vice president. He's such a great leader and he's obviously knows everybody, all the Republican senators, because he was one just a short time ago. And so we have a great personal relationship with him. He came on the heels of his visit, obviously to Israel, but he wanted to reemphasize that, that opening the government is the most sensible, easiest, sanest way to begin these negotiations after, after we open the government. So he's very supportive of the position that many of us have taken, and I think he feels as strongly about it as we do. He also talked about tariffs. He reassured us that the president is moving forward in a very measured way to make sure the American worker is getting the advantages from tariffs and the deals that he's been solidifying on his Asian trip with Malaysia and Cambodia and others are going to really enhance American manufacturing. And then he talked a lot about chips and the situation with China and special metals and all of these things. So it was a comprehensive visit, but I think it really, I think, reinforced to me anyway, that we have ourselves set on a path, this country on a path to really bring more prosperity to the American worker. And that's, that's a very uniting principle for us.

[Joe Weisenthal]

I don't know if you got into the idea of SNAP benefits expiring, Senator, but you might have heard me refer to some of the legislation that has been put forth with three days here until assistance programs run out of money. What do you think of Senator Josh Hawley's idea here to fund snap? I know there's a separate version in the House that Representative Resnahan is working on to fund the WIC program. Should we be entertaining these ideas or does that create a scenario in which you're picking favorites? Some people are getting paid, others are not. Some programs are being funded, others are not. When we should simply be focused on reopening the government.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Well, I mean, the simple answer here is if you reopen the government, all of these issues go away. SAT benefits, air traffic controllers, military, government services, et cetera. And so now that we're into 29 days, it is really beginning to wear on the American people. So you take my state of West Virginia, 18% of our households have a SNAP benefit. I think about the young mother who has a single mother with children. That's a frightening prospect to think that she wouldn't have the money to feed her children or a disabled or elderly couple. And so these are real human problems that honestly, Chuck Schumer can pontificate on the floor about how it's John Thune's fault. I don't think the American people care whose fault it is. Reopening the government is the simplest, easiest way to proceed. We do have an agriculture bill out there that does have SNAP benefits in the appropriations bill. We could look at that as a possible vehicle. I am on Josh Hawley bill because of the heavy impacts, almost like I said, almost 20% of my state. It's a heavy impact to my state. And if his bill were to come to the floor, I would be, I'm a co sponsor now and I would also be in favor of voting for it.

[Joe Weisenthal]

That's great to know. Do you know if it would pass? Do you have the votes if it gets to the floor?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You know, I would suspect with, I believe there's probably at least 10 and probably more co sponsors to that bill, which would give you the 60 vote margin to move forward. But we have to keep going back to the political nature of this shutdown. And also the easiest, simplest way is to do what we've done, what I did 13 times when President Biden was the president, just vote to reopen the government to a continuing resolution while we, while we debate the issues of health care premiums and other issues that want to be debated.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Well, you know, you've been hearing this. I'm sure if I'm hearing it, you're hearing it. Senator, the idea of a full year continuing resolution. The head of Ways and Means in the House, Jason Smith, told us he was behind that idea. We know the White House has floated it. John Thune at one point said, hey, this might be the way out of shutdowns for the next year. But I know there are a lot of concerns among appropriators and maybe you share their concerns that this is still a Joe Biden budget.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Right.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Would you vote for a year long crime?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You know, I'm going to leave that to see if that's an option. I don't know where we would be to have to make that vote. But I'm an appropriator myself. I'm the chairman of the Health, Education and Labor Subcommittee. Enormous appropriating for the year. I want to have President Trump's priorities in the appropriations process. I want to have my priorities in the appropriations process. I don't want to cede that to just simply what I think is sort of mindless spending in a continuing resolution here for, you know, forever, for, you know, 13 month period of time. So I would rather see us go to the appropriations process on the floor like Senator Thune has brought to the floor, which, by the way, Senator Schumer never did the year before. And so we can, we can actually do the bipartisan work that we do so well on appropriations. That's the preferred route. If we can get seven or eight of these bills, bills over the threshold, and you may be rolling your eyes thinking, how could they possibly do that when they can't keep the government open? I'm an optimist. I think we can. We've worked on these bills before and they're exceedingly important to make sure that President Trump gets the priorities that he has and that we share with him into the appropriating cycle.

[Joe Weisenthal]

You're on half the committees in the Senate, of course, that includes Commerce. And I'm wondering your thoughts about what's going to happen with the FAA here, Senator. The tsa, I realize, is a slightly different matter here, but everybody is working in from the air traffic control tower down to the security checkpoint in the airport. They're all working without pay right now. And at some point, based on what we're hearing from workers who are at 60 hours a week, they might have to look for other work. The unions might decide to start doing sitouts or walkouts if we start seeing massive cancellations and delays. And I know we're already getting a taste with some of the ground stops that have been happening around the country. Is that what shakes loose a couple of Democrats to sign on to this cr or do you see it differently?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

No, I don't see it differently. I do think that that is definitely a pressure point when you see the thousands of delays and you also realize at what point is safety imperiled here. And that is the greater question. But, you know, we're asking people, or, you know, a shutdown asks people to skip not just one paycheck. Now we're into two paychecks. These are families. These are people that have obligations that have, have. It is such a disservice to not just the air traffic controllers, but to every single federal employee, which in my state are quite a few. And not to mention the troops, the Coast Guard, the TSA agents, all of these folks. And so simply open the government, get the money from flowing to those that are working and have worked and provide the services. And let's get on to negotiations. Let's drop the politics of a shutdown. I don't think it's working for Senator Schumer. And I think I could hear a little desperation in his voice there when you played his clip. I think he's looking for a way out and we have an easy way to do it with the bipartisan talks that we've had over premiums and other issues that we all share concerns about.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah, definitely had a frog in his throat. Senator, I want to ask you before you leave us about tariffs, because there was an important vote yesterday that really raised a lot of eyebrows, a vote to eliminate the 50% tariff on Brazil, and it was a 5,248 vote. It came with the support of a group I was referring to earlier as the feisty five. Your Republican colleague Susan Collins, Mitch McConnell, Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul and Thom Tillis. Should we assume that because it is those five, that this is not some sort of groundswell to check the president in the Senate? Or is this, in fact, the line that has been drawn by Republicans when it comes to trade?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Well, I think you see a variety of opinions. We have a lot of free traders within the Republican Conference. We have a lot of folks who are, whose industries, over years, and I would put myself in this position, have been exceedingly disadvantaged by the unfair trade practices with, with some with Canada, but also, you know, China and other places where our manufacturing, we've lost jobs and in some cases our products are very much at a disadvantage. And I'm glad that President Trump's going to work for the American worker through tariffs. But here's what I would say to him if he was sitting right here in front of me. This needs to be settled and it needs to be settled now. We can't. The ebbs and flows and uncertainty that we have, in some cases, I think does provide a lot of capital staying on the on the sidelines, lack of investment and people are not able to move forward. So I think certainty and that means set, set the policy, set the reciprocal trade policies that are fair and that helps our American worker and let's move from there. And I think will what will satisfy both goals, both the worker goal, but also the goal of the president for us to not be in a disadvantage disadvantaged situation.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Really interesting and great to talk to you. Senator Shelley Moore, Capitol of West Virginia we appreciate the conversation with us live from Capitol Hill. Stay with us on balance of power. We'll have much more coming up after this.

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[Joe Weisenthal]

We watched this AI trade explode here over the past couple of days and of course Washington is in the final day here of Nvidia gtc, so we're going to be talking about that a bit more here. With Nvidia shares hitting a new all time high, the $5 trillion man. Jensen Huang with a remarkable keynote address yesterday that I think had a lot of people thinking when it comes to the conversation about a bubble or circular investing. Of course, we also know what some of the big challenges are, including energy. And we're going to be talking to Congressman Chuck Fleischman about that, among other things, in just a moment. Caterpillar something today, huh? 12%, $63 to the moon. Caterpillar. And a lot of it has to do with. Yeah, I you drive by these data centers that they're breaking ground on, and what do you see out there? These massive pieces of equipment made by cat moving earth, generating power. And it's paying off in a big way here. This old line, Earth Moving company is now apparently on the bleeding edge of AI. It just has tentacles that go through the economy in a fascinating way. So welcome to day 29. That's where we are in the shutdown. It feels a lot like 28, and I suspect it'll feel a lot like 30, because we're going to do that tomorrow as well. Remembering the president is in South Korea. The House is out of session. The Senate is doing its thing. Nobody is really talking. Although John Thune did say that rank and file conversations were happening. And I don't know if Chuck Schumer would agree with him on that. We heard earlier from the Democratic leader on the floor of the Senate. Let's listen.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

The bill is simple, it's moral, it's urgent. And ask John Thune why he won't put it on the floor. He decries the fact that SNAP benefits are cut off.

[Joe Weisenthal]

He knows the money is available.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

He knows there's broad Republican support for it, and he doesn't put it on the floor.

[Joe Weisenthal]

He's afraid of Trump. All right. So everybody's still upset. And what he's referring to is this bill to fund November SNAP benefits. There's a Democratic version here that would go up against the Hawley version that we talked about, Josh Hawley, of course, with his own bill funding snap. There's a separate one that's going to be in the House as well that would fund the WIC program. So they're continuing to vote. By the way, yesterday there was a vote in the Senate, I believe it was lucky 13 on the clean CR. It failed. And we rinse repeat with the gentleman from Tennessee. As I mentioned, Republican Congressman Chuck Fleishman was coming in to see us and he's here now in our Washington studios. The House is out of session, but you're in town and it's nice to see you. Thank you for coming in.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

It's always great to be with you. And yes, I am in session. I am here.

[Joe Weisenthal]

You're in session, indeed. So I think all we need for the purpose.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

I'm in session 24 7.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yeah, well, we are too here at Bloomberg. I love that. Well, let me ask you about that. And it's not where I was planning to start. How do you conduct constituent services? Well, the staff is not getting paid and a government that's close a credit.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

To my Washington D.C. and District staff. They show up every day, as do I, without compensation, take calls, do the best they can with what they've got. Yeah, but you're right. Most of the government agencies with whom we communicate on a daily basis are closed. However, there are several folks in the federal government working. I spoke with some folks this week at GSA and others. They're taking phone calls. They're doing the best they can working under very arduous circumstances that they did not create. So. So we are working. We're doing the best we can. We're taking phone calls. But this whole shutdown is outrageous.

[Joe Weisenthal]

How was it flying and you get delayed?

[Chuck Fleischmann]

I did last night, actually. I was trying to come in from Chattanooga last night through Atlanta. But this morning I got the direct and just glad to be here.

[Joe Weisenthal]

I just wonder what to what extent we start to see a breakdown in air traffic control because all Those guys working 60 hours and gals up in the tower are not getting paid either. Are we going to set a new record that's foregone now, right? We're only nine days away from or less than that from setting new record shutdown.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

I hope not. But I'm afraid we're headed that way. And to all of the federal workers, whether it's our air traffic controllers, our troops, our other federal workers, people who rely on the federal government, my heart goes out to you. My thanks go out to you. You're doing the right thing by showing up tsa. I saw wonderful people in Chattanooga at TSA today under difficult circumstances. They were so nice and so cordial. They thanked me for working tirelessly to keep the government open. I voted that way and I'm foregoing pay.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yes, you are. I signed away of the Republican conference. It seems like, I don't know, remember, period.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

Might be, I don't know, under the Constitution we actually have to take affirmative action, which I did. And I signed before this started a letter saying suspend my pay. I was never going to be in a position where I would ever take compensation while others did not. But the member of Congress or the Senate, under the Constitution, actually has to tell the clerk to withhold the pay. And I did do that.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Really interesting. So you've been in Washington for a minute, Congressman. How is this going to unfold? How is this going to end? Or is it actually different this time, like some seem to think in 15.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

Years and now I've been able to accede to a position where we affectionately call myself a cardinal, one of the 12 on appropriations. This is relevant to what I do. I have never been more disappointed, disgusted, disheartened, and candidly, this is a farce. There are times in this town when reasonable minds can differ. Sometimes unreasonable minds can differ. This was a Schumer shutdown for political purposes. It's wrong. It's plain and simple. He can say whatever he wants. You never shut the federal government down. It's never a good thing to do. The House voted to keep it open. And if you look at where we are, we have hurt the American people, we've hurt the American economy, we've hurt the American republic, and we've hurt the credibility of the House and Senate, the legislative branch, with the American people. At a time when it's at an all time low, this should have never, ever happened. And Chuck Schumer needs to open the government up. It's a farce. If you look at where we are and where we're going to go when we reopen the government, and eventually we will, it's still going to take 60 votes in the United States Senate to pass a budget. And it's still going to take Republican and Democratic votes in the House to pass a budget.

[Tim Stenovec]

Why?

[Chuck Fleischmann]

Because many of my brethren, and I respect them very much, will never vote for appropriation bills. I always vote for appropriation bills, but I'm an appropriator. It's like an offensive coordinator. I'm going to vote for touchdowns.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Yes. Okay. So I'm sure as an appropriator, your head's exploding. At this moment in time, we've never felt much further away from regular order as the idea of a full year CR is being floated now. Jason Smith just last week said he's behind it. If it gets the government open or keeps it open through December 26, what gets it back open, though, are we going to. I mean, this is. Is this perpetual. Do we go on for the rest of the year if everyone's still talking the same as they were 29 days ago? Where's the off ramp?

[Chuck Fleischmann]

The truth, which from the inception. The truth on this one, 100% is this is a Chuck Schumer show.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Well, I know you made that point and a farce. If he never, if he never comes around, what do you do?

[Chuck Fleischmann]

The second thing is the pressure from groups that traditionally support Democrats. You saw a large federal labor union the other day call for what a clean and open cr. You're going to start seeing more and more people call. Your show does a tremendous, objective job and I thank you for that. But what we need is more media to start calling balls and strikes. And I watch all the media, right, left, center and the like because I want to get that flavor and that perspective and it helps me do my job in a more beneficial way. But the reality is we need to call out the people who have caused this. This is a Democratic cause shutdown. And the reality is it's got to stop. It's hurting the American people. It's actually hurting the American republic right now. And I will say this, as you know, being candid, being straightforward. I am a big, big fan of President Trump's. But anytime you dump the burden of a government shutdown on any executive branch, Republican or Democratic, it's unfair to the executive branch cuz they have to make the tough choices. He's done a very good job, given a very bad hand by the Congress. It's our job in the House and Senate to keep the government open to pass budgets. And you hit on something that's so, so important. We failed last year. We got a continuing resolution in fiscal 24. We had a great budget deal. I wrote an energy and water bill, probably the best one in decades for the House this time. If we don't do this, we've imperiled the entire federal budgetary process for an entire year.

[Joe Weisenthal]

That's right.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

I don't want to devolve into a year long cr. We should never.

[Joe Weisenthal]

That's your nightmare, right? That's an appropriator. That's the.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

That is our nightmare.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Hey. So the government's closed. Closed and will continue to stay closed for some period of time, but business is still going on. The Nvidia GTC conference that I mentioned in its last day today here in Washington was a huge reminder of that yesterday. When we consider the opportunities at hand. This market doesn't seem bothered by the shutdown. We're literally setting records every day from in great part, advances in the air sphere. And you and I have talked a lot about the need for energy. That was a huge part of the conversation at the Nvidia confab. I was talking to folks last evening from Nvidia, from OpenAI, from Crusoe, and nuclear was a huge part of the conversation. And I kept thinking, well, Congressman Fleischmann is coming in tomorrow and I'm going to ask him about this. Small modular reactors SMRs, are those the answer to getting that clean, uninterruptible power to these data centers or are we going to sit here for a decade while we relight these vampire nuclear sites or build new ones?

[Chuck Fleischmann]

Another excellent question. I chair the American Dominance in Energy caucus in Congress. I chair eight energy related caucuses. These are bipartisan caucuses that work to make America dominant in energy. A big part of that for me is nuclear. I represent Oak Ridge does a great job. Smart small modular reactors are part of the solution. Advanced reactors, reactors are also part of the solution. There's generation three, generation four. I don't want to get too technical. Also microreactors, we've seen new microreactors come forward. We just had one company come into Tennessee, which is great. We also still need big nuclear. I don't want to ever downplay a company. Holtech has gone out. They are actually restarting a nuclear power plant that was shuttered in Michigan. That's great. Even New York State, which is certainly not a bastion of conservatism, is looking.

[Joe Weisenthal]

At bringing back nuclear next era in Iowa now.

[Chuck Fleischmann]

And Three Mile island, the not damaged reactor that's been laying vacant for years is going to be coming back. So the nuclear sector is booming. It's going to continue to boom. What we need is reliable fuel, whether that's LIU or Hailu. And we're going to start producing Hailu, highly enriched, low enriched uranium. It's up to 19.5% in the United States. Again, we let that go away. We've been dependent on Russia. So the whole cycle, then we got to look at the back end of the cycle. What are we going to do with spent nuclear fuel? I think the key is reprocessing.

[Joe Weisenthal]

Let's keep talking about this. It's not going away. Congressman Chuck Fleishman, Republican from Tennessee, Many thanks as always for joining us right here on Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington D.C. at noontime [e-mail] hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk crazy weather we're having. No it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert store dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

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