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- [00:00]
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- [00:56]
Joe Matthew
American airstrikes shortly after Iran reportedly rejected a cease fire proposal that had been delivered to Washington by Iraq's prime minister. This could be a very interesting and informative weekend of the future of this conflict. And it's where we start with Bloomberg White House correspondent Jeff Mason, who is on the North Lawn right now. Jeff, will there be a 14th straight night?
- [01:22]
Jeff Mason
You know, if past is prologue, there probably will be, Joe. I don't have any specific intel on that, but the president has shown certainly over the last two weeks that he wants to increase attacks and to continue these attacks that started a little over two weeks ago when, or roughly two weeks ago, I should say, when the cease fire collapsed and the memo of understanding was essentially, essentially thrown in the trash. Not a great spot right now between those two countries, but there are seemingly some efforts by outside mediators to try to get them back to the table. Our friends at Reuters reporting earlier that Pakistan was pursuing another of option or way to get the two sides back at the table. And that has helped the markets a little bit. I think markets generally are just looking for any signs of hope that this conflict is not going to continue to escalate and continue to escalate. Obviously you then also have sort of the the opposite type of reporting from Axio is suggesting that the president is looking at even bigger a bigger attack or a bigger use of military force against Iran. So we're going to ask him about that this afternoon. He's holding an event in the Oval Office and I'm expecting to be there and we'll try try to get a couple questions in.
- [02:37]
Joe Matthew
I'll be deeply curious to hear what he said, Jeff. Indeed. Bigger than ever before was the quote to Axios. I'm close to making A decision. We're all set for it. Listen to the way the president framed the war with Iran when he was speaking yesterday. We're doing very well. And against the Islamic Republic of Iran, we're doing extremely well. They would like to do something, but I say they're not ready yet. We want to get it over with and we want to do it right. We have to do what we came to do and that's we can't let these people have very violent people. We can't let them have what they want at every turn. We're doing extremely well. Jeff, you've heard him say it. He has even said it directly to you. He's also claimed victory more than two dozen times over the course of five months. Do we actually know what the president thinks about the state of this war?
- [03:30]
Jeff Mason
You know, I appreciate that you use that two dozen figure, Joe, because it's emblematic of the mixed messages that he has given about this war, really from the very beginning and throughout. And it also, I think you asked me what he's thinking. I think that it is that's also sort of a window into what he's thinking because this is a president who wants to victory on all sides. He wants to be able to say that he was a historic president who took on a challenge with Iran that other presidents had not. And he likes and he says that repeatedly. But he also has voiced fears of becoming a president who presides over an economic downfall like the Great Depression. He doesn't want that. And that was one of the things that he cited when he ended or said he was ending the war a few weeks ago. So it's a lot and it's a lot to decipher and it's a lot of back and forth and contradiction. There are also lots of different opinions about it within his own party. There are people on the right who would like to see President Trump and this administration really continue this war against Iran and do even more to ensure that Tehran is unable to get a nuclear weapon. Whereas there are others who I think are also concerned about the Republican prospects in the midterm election if gasoline prices continue to go up and if this conflict continues.
- [04:54]
Joe Matthew
Let's talk tariffs. Jeff Mason, we've got a new round here replacing those that are expiring those temporary tariffs following the Supreme Court ruling. Everyone's becoming an expert on this stuff. This is section 301, a 431 page filing in the Federal Register. And it's aimed at, well, tariffs between 10 and 12 and a half percent aimed in many cases at our trading partners or allies, including the eu. Jeff, this is on the grounds of forced labor. What do we know about it?
- [05:25]
Jeff Mason
Yeah, including the EU is right. That. And you're throwing out 301 in the same way that lots of people are throwing out 301, which used to mean nothing, I think, to many people, but it means a lot in the trade world. So spot on with that figure. There it is. It is the workaround that the administration is using to continue tariffs against basically a good chunk of the rest of the world, including very close U.S. allies. As far as that particular reasoning that you mentioned in terms of forced labor, that's the crux that they have that they have hinged this on or attached this to. I am curious to see more of the details about where they are seeing forced labor in these supply chains. Certainly from a bloc like the European Union, which is also pretty sensitive to those things. I would think that they'd have to have something to show for it.
- [06:18]
Joe Matthew
Jeff. Right. While you were speaking, the President just posted. I think he's watching this again. We're running headlines across the terminal right now. I want you to hear this. They're starting a 301 probe into the practice of the European Union, he says, robbing US Firms. The European Union, he says, is at it again, taking direct a at great American companies. After having fined Apple for no reason at all, $15 billion meta 3 billion, Amazon 2 1/2 and many others. We have just been informed that Google has been fined another billion dollars without explanation. I read down here. It's a very long post. He says the US is on a piggy bank for Europe and a 301 investigation will be immediately initiated into the practice of robbing American companies and in turn the American taxpayer. Jeff, he says the EU will pay a very big price for this illegal and highly unethical conduct. This sounds like a lot more than forced labor.
- [07:16]
Jeff Mason
Yes, it does. And let's unpack a little bit of that without even having seen the post. And thanks for reading it out loud, Joe. One thing I can tell you as a former EU correspondent is that the European Union, and particularly the European Commission, which is the EU's executive based in Brussels, has broad authority over antitrust and their antitrust department, or the part of the commission that does antitrust, is the one or is the part of the commission that is taking on some of these big US technology companies. That is not the same as trading practice. It's an antitrust practice, if I'm understanding correctly what the president is complaining about. So that would raise questions for me as a reporter about what kind of legal maneuvers or legal challenges that the EU might now take, not even with regard to retaliation, but with regard to fighting this measure in an international court of some kind. I don't know the answer to that, but just throwing that out there. But broadly, back to our discussion about what the president is thinking. The president doesn't see those that differentiation. He sees it as Europe taking or attacking US Companies and taking money away. And so he's using the only thing that he often uses as a, as a tool to prevent that, and that is these tariffs.
- [08:37]
Joe Matthew
I guess we'll have to see what the level will be, Jeff. He says the penalties will be entirely reversed and we anticipate a substantial tariff to be placed on them at the earliest possible moment. I'm really glad we were with Jeff Mason when this story broke. Jeff, thank you so much with your institutional knowledge here on the eu, A fascinating story. Here's our White House correspondent live, of course, on the North Lawn, and we want to assemble our panel for their take on this breaking story. We'll get to what's happening with Iran, but the tariffs are leading the day here. It was already a major story with the implementation of these 301 tariffs for some 60 economies that the White House says has forced labor in their supply chains. Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeannie Shan Zaino is with us, our Democratic analyst and Democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ashe Center. And we're joined as well by Katie Frost, Republican strategist, political director at the American Principles Project. Katie, this is an interesting moment. After the White House struck down the tariffs, the president has managed to rebuild a good chunk of what people call his tariff wall. And it looks like there's more coming based on what he's writing about the European Union. Does this make you nervous in a world where we're already seeing an economy, where we're already seeing rising prices because of the war in Iran?
- [10:01]
Katie Frost
You know, I've long held that tariffs are something that should be a tool and used in negotiations. And President Trump, of course, we know he loves to negotiate. But for far too long, we had countries that would have a tariff in place and we did not at least have a mirror tariff of that. So that's something I've long been an advocate for. But we'll have to see how these different countries want to negotiate and finalize these deals. And as we saw previously, there were several times when the president would talk about a tariff and all of A sudden people wanted to get to the table and have a conversation. So I will wait to judge until we see the final product. But if we're talking about something like forced labor, I think that's something we should all be able to agree on. There's a reason we haven't allowed certain imports from regions like where the Uyghur concentration camps are in China, which if there is forced labor and slave labor being used in the production of those products, those products have no place being in the United States.
- [10:52]
Joe Matthew
Well, and apparently they have no place in the EU according to the administration. Jeannie. And the EU is taking some issue with the forced labor allegations. Weigh in on that as you see fit. The EU is going to be getting more, it sounds like, based on these penalties to, as he mentioned, Google, Apple, Metta and more.
- [11:13]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
Yeah, I mean, to impose these tariffs, which are not anything but taxes on the American public, The President using 301 has to show that these 59 countries plus the 27 EU nations are engaged in forced labor. At least they are in their supply chain. And that is something that as far as we can tell, we have not seen the evidence of. So whether or not the the administration can produce that is critical. On the heels of that, just hours after imposing these, the president takes to Truth Social with those posts you were reading to Jeff Mason and he says, oh, by the way, this might not be anything to do with forced labor. Apparently this has to do with antitrust. I don't like how you are treating our big tech companies, Google and the rest of the. Well, this is a big question for the administration. Which is it? And you've got people in Congress, you've got senators, you've got people like Linda Sanchez, you've got people like Ron Wyden who are saying we need to pull this power back from the President because he is misusing it. I will tell you one consistent theme in every report we've heard today, even before the President posted about the antitrust is this has nothing to do with forced labor. This is a workaround for the President because his ability to impose his favorite tool tariffs was stripped by the Supreme Court. And the minute literally last night when those last set were pulled back, he then imposed these using forced labor as an excuse. So the big question here is can he and the administration show evidence of forced labor and what is he talking about about the antitrust? If that is coming into play here, 301 isn't going to give him the tool he needs to be able to do this legally.
- [13:14]
Joe Matthew
Well, and you know that there are going to be court challenges coming here. What do you make of this post, Katie? That the president just made upping the ante when it comes to the fines that he says are for no reason at all against some of our biggest tech companies, Metta, Amazon, Google and others isolated. In this note he says the United States of America is not a piggyback for Europe. Do you think we are?
- [13:42]
Katie Frost
Well, it certainly seems like they expect us to bail them out whenever something is happening over there. And you know there was the old joke that everybody talks about America, we are the back to back world war champions. But look, at the end of the day we, you know that anyone who represents those companies is going to make sure that they're advocating for their best interests, which we should. But we also need to have someone who's advocating for the best interest of the American people and that's supposed to be the President of the United States. And if Europe is doing anything that impacts negatively our economy, there needs to be something done about that. And I agree with Jane, we're not, we don't know what the final version of this is going to be. And there will be a lot of court cases about this. If there's one thing we have more of in the D.C. than lobbyists, it's lawyers. So you know they're going to be suing over these regulations but we have to see what the final product will be. No one really has an answer right now.
- [14:31]
Joe Matthew
Let's turn to Iran if we can. Jeannie, we haven't heard from you yet today on this with the president taking to truth social as well to talk about China's promise and Russia's promise to not provide weapons to Iran. We had a 13th straight night of bombing last evening and we're going to be talking more with, with the missile expert at CSIS coming up here about strategy. But are you concerned that we are on the verge of all out war once again?
- [14:58]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
Well, I am based, you know, in part on the president's comments. And the fact is it's becoming increasingly tough to take what he says at, to take him at his word on any of this. At the same time he is telling the American public in Georgia that apparently Iran wants desperately to negotiate but he's not ready. He then we get reporting out of the New York Times which says that he sent, and I think he should be doing this, an attempt to negotiate a deal with them that they rejected. So which is it? We've got to be able to trust the president and the administration not to mention, Joe reports that they pulled down the number of casualties that were posted from 18 to 14, saying the four men and women who returned to Dover Air Force Base the other day did not die during the war because this came after the mou. That is an astonishing thing to do and hopefully I haven't checked in the last few minutes has been rectified. But this is an administration that is saying things that don't match with the reality of what we're hearing and we need to be able to trust them on things as basic as Are you attempting to negotiate? How much has this war cost? How many casualties and wounded have we had? How much more money do you need? And increasingly that's becoming difficult.
- [16:24]
Joe Matthew
All right, we've had a great panel and I want to thank both of you, Jeannie, Shan Zaino and Katie Frost for sharing your insights on another breaking news day here in Washington. Stay with us. On Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this.
- [16:40]
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- [17:36]
Tom Carricko
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors LLC. SEC registered advisor complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures.
- [17:50]
Host/Announcer
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30.
- [18:09]
Joe Matthew
We're live in Washington On Balance of Power. I'm Joe Matthew. Kailey Leinz is off today and we do have breaking news on a story that we touched earlier in the program. The competition among states to become first in line for the Democratic primary process when we get together to choose another president. As we mentioned to you, Nevada and South Carolina were considered contenders to be first in line. And the Associated Press now reports that South Carolina was in fact selected to lead off the Democratic Party's 2028 presidential nominating schedule. This is the DNC rules and bylaws Committee holding up at the Salamander Hotel here in Washington, D.C. and they've been at it, making arguments for a couple of days and according to some, it's been a knockdown, drag out fight. The decision will need to be approved by the full DNC to be clear, which is scheduled to meet in August. And now you can brace for the reaction that will come from many states, beginning with Iowa and New Hampshire, who will be very much looking to maintain their first in line order. Of course, Iowa kicks things off or has historically with the presidential caucuses, New Hampshire, the first in the nation, primary state which has a state law on the books that says it must go first and so it will likely jump the line if history is any guide here and could in fact be penalized again. The state was stripped of its delegates in the last cycle, which is why there was a write in campaign for Joe Biden. We're back to the situation in Iran as promised with a 13th straight night of attacks after Iran reportedly rejected a cease fire offer that was delivered on behalf of Washington by the Iraqi prime minister. And based on what we have been seeing with Iran continuing to attack vessels in the Strait of Hormuz and even employing the Houthis to do the same in the Red Sea. Wall Street Journal reports that Iran has proven it retains a significant missile and drone arsenal, that it continues to use and threaten American forces even as the president has claimed to have totally destroyed Iran's military. It's where we start our conversation with Tom Carricko, a real expert, as we try to understand what exactly the capabilities are that Iran still retains. He's the director of the Missile Defense Project and senior fellow in the Defense and Security Department at the center for Strategic and International Studies, csis, right here in Washington. Tom, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. Is it possible to answer that question, do we know how many missiles Iran has left?
- [20:55]
Tom Carricko
Well, the president about a month ago said that Iran had about 21% of its missile force still intact. And he added that's that's still quite a lot, unfortunately. I mean, I think just the fact that yes, we've been bombing them the last 13 days, but they keep managing to get missiles off and it's the fact that the missiles are getting off the ground in the first place just speaks to the fact that we've not sufficiently graded either the missiles themselves or their launch infrastructure. It's a reminder that the whole desire to do things left of launch before the missiles are launched, while highly desirable, is also very hard. Scud hunting is hard and Iran has built an infrastructure. Learning from the North Koreans and other folks and watching the way in which the United States conducts strikes over the many, over the last several decades that have been able to ride out these attacks, unfortunately more than we would have liked, remarkably well.
- [21:53]
Joe Matthew
Tom, as I read in the story here, and I should note that you were quoted in it, the strike on the air base Friday that killed three Americans was carried out by, they say, likely Tehran's most effective missiles, including the Khbar Chicane medium range system that and others housed in vast underground facilities that the US and Israel spent weeks pounding in March and April. Since then, Iran has dug them out and resumed firing from those same bases. Are we not able to destroy them?
- [22:22]
Tom Carricko
Look, it's likely a circuitous maze of missile launch points. Iran has actually put video of some of these underground missile cities or these underground tunnels online over the years. And it's, it's a pretty clever concept. You basically got a road that you drive around and then you have little holes that in the surface that pop up. And so it's designed to be resilient. It's designed to be able to move things around, have the aspect of deception in terms of making it harder to figure out where an individual missile is at any given time. So when you bury things underground, you have the benefit of a passive defense to make it harder to be. To be struck.
- [23:06]
Joe Matthew
Interesting. These are, I presume, the sites that we're going back to hit now for a second or third time. When you hear the President talk about additional targets, how many of them have already been hit?
- [23:19]
Tom Carricko
I don't know the number offhand, but I think what you're pointing to in part is the challenge of doing everything from the air. This is a lesson that unfortunately we have to remind ourselves of or relearn. It seems like every decade or so that the desire American air power is exquisite, to be sure, but it is very hard to be able to do everything from the air from a standoff capability. The land domain, we talk about multi domain operations, but land domain is the domain on which most human beings spend most of their time. And that's where politics happens, that's where stuff exists. And so it's difficult from a military perspective to be able to, no kidding, accomplish all of your objectives without being there, without sending in forces. And so that's not something we want to do, but that's just the challenge.
- [24:10]
Joe Matthew
Well, I guess I'm winding up to. To a question about whether Iran is simply digging out these missiles because they were very carefully stored underground, or if they're maybe getting new ones. And the president posted on Truth Social today, I'd love your thoughts on this. Referring to President Xi, he said, told me he would not under any circumstances give or sell weapons to Iran. That statement included Chinese companies. He says. He says, likewise, President Putin told me he would not sell weapons to Iran, and he understands that I do not sell weapons to Ukraine, but to NATO countries. What's the point of this? Does the president believe that China or Russia may be providing weapons?
- [24:52]
Tom Carricko
Well, the. The quote would seem to suggest that he'd like to believe they weren't. I think the good money, the good bet is that of course they are. And why would they be doing that? Because it's too great a temptation not to, frankly. Yes. Admittedly, through NATO, the United States has of course been providing weapons, but also targeting information to the Ukrainians to resist the Russian invaders. So in addition to the likely prospect of stuff going into Iran, there's been a number of news reports on that front. There's also the reports that maybe the Chinese or the Russians are assisting with targeting information. So the United States bases in Qatar and Bahrain, and yes, in Jordan, where the service members were just killed. It's hard not to think that targeting information could be helping the Iranians out a lot. And there, again, it's probably just too great a temptation for the Russians and the Chinese not to be assisting.
- [25:51]
Joe Matthew
Wow, that's really important, Tom. I'm looking at the defense contractors today. They're reaching higher again after a big rally yesterday in rtx. Lockheed, they had earnings reports. And it brings us to the question right now, there you see it on your screen. RTX is up another 2%. Lockheed is up even more than that. The question about our own stockpiles. Tom, these are the two companies, among others, that stand to benefit from a massive purchase of missiles, interceptors, and other munitions that we have spent in the war in Iran and of course, in providing weapons support to Ukraine. How badly does the Pentagon need the money it's asking for right now? There's a supplemental budget request that's on the table in Congress. It just passed the House. Pentagon officials, Pete Hegseth testifying earlier in the week, say they're already moving training schedules around, moving money around because they need the cash. What do we need to buy what's our state of munitions in our stockpiles?
- [26:52]
Tom Carricko
Yeah. So the bad news is that it is not a very good situation at all. We have, I would say, figured out a good plan that was begun last May of 2025 to begin what was called a munitions ramp to build up about a dozen change prioritized munitions. The two companies that you cited there are the primary providers of those offensive and defensive missiles. That was a good plan. There were announcements, heads of agreement, agreements to agree that were announced in December and then in January and February of this year. But the bad news, that's all good. The bad news is they haven't been contracted, Almost nothing has been contracted to do that. In January when Congress passed the 2026 appropriations, they said that they were $28.8 billion short of the Pentagon's request just for munitions. That was before Epic Fury. Things have gotten a lot worse. Now the supplemental bill that you referenced there, assuming you can get through Congress, would, would basically finish up that earlier shortfall. But it doesn't even get after the munitions shortfall from Epic Fury. And yes, the numbers of offensive and defensive missiles that have been expended in this conflict is frankly shocking. And it is something that I've written is, is frankly degrading our deterrence and defense abilities in the Pacific, for instance.
- [28:21]
Joe Matthew
We've only got a minute left. Tom, you said Pacific. Could we wage war against China right now while we're doing this with Iran?
- [28:29]
Tom Carricko
The United States could, but it would be much harder. And the other thing is what I really worry about is that we are essentially tempting China to do something because we are from a military posture moving stuff out of the Pacific. It just makes it that much more tempting for them to pick a fight with the Philippines or with Taiwan or whomever. And so that's what I really worry about is that the folks in Beijing are sitting there clicking away on a hand clicker for every Patriot missile that we fire and every Tomahawk missile that we fire, they're doing a lot of clicking and it's not a good situation,
- [29:07]
Joe Matthew
the counting the bullets as we fire. Tom, you're great and I appreciate your analysis very much with great work at the missile defense project at csis. Tom Carrick co Ireland's ambassador to the US is on the way in next year on Bloomberg.
- [29:25]
Public.com Advertiser
Support for this show comes from public.com if you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions. Buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, Putting on a hedge on Public you can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English like if the Vix hits 25, buy a put option on the S&P 500 or if my cash balance goes above $20,000, move the excess into my direct index. You approve the workflow and your agent handles the risk. Monitoring the market, watching for your conditions and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com market paid for by Public
- [30:21]
Tom Carricko
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, LLC. SEC registered advisor complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures
- [30:35]
Host/Announcer
you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple Car Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [30:52]
Joe Matthew
I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Thanks for spending some time with us. As we talk tariffs today, there's actually a lot of tariff news which can make things a bit confusing. The White House today implementing, as expected, a new round of tariffs on our trading partners to replace those that were put in place temporarily following the supreme court ruling. It's 10 to 12 and a half percent applied to 60 different economies and the justification of forced labor. This is section 301 replacing section 1 22. Now that's separate from what the President is threatening to drop on Canada. The most recent round, a fresh 50% tariff on some Canadian goods, milk, hockey equipment, beer and plywood, as opposed to those in some cases, including energy, that are covered by the USMCA over what the United States or the Trump administration says was unfair treatment of American alcohol, cars and dairy. Now to that end, there was supposed to be a dedication ceremony today for a new bridge, the Gordie Howe Bridge, connecting the US And Canada right there in Detroit. President riding on Truth Social Canada disinvited the United States of America to the opening of the Gordie Howe Bridge, which is fine, he says, considering they are paying substantial tariffs to the United States. But the original deal on the bridge, terribly negotiated by a previous administration, he says, no longer stands. We changed the terms of the deal so that the US now gets 50% of the profit. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Indeed, the United States will hold its own dedication ceremony, it seems on this side of the bridge. This was the foundation of David Westin's conversation with Christy Freeland that you will see and hear on this week's edition of Bloomberg Wall Street Week. Of course, the former Canadian finance minister, now Bloomberg contributor, weighing in on Canada tariffs.
- [32:55]
Christia Freeland
Listen, the official rationale is in reaction to Canadian treatment of U.S. alcohol, U.S. dairy and U.S. cars and car parts. But we have to be careful about believing the official rationale because just before the proclamation came out, the complaint was that Canada needed to be punished for the Canadian wildfires, which is a hard thing to figure out, how Canada should stop them. And I think we really have to recognize that this is happening against a backdrop of what is turning out to be a very contentious Renegotiation of the USMCA, formerly known as NAFTA Trade Agreement, governing the U.S. canadian and Mexican trade relationship.
- [33:51]
Joe Matthew
How big a deal is that in terms of the amount of trade between the United States and Canada?
- [33:55]
Christia Freeland
People have calculated that it's about $20 billion worth of goods. That's not a killing blow for the Canadian economy, but it is significant in and of itself. And I think the other thing, what is really important about this is it shows that this is going to be a truly contentious negotiation. It shows that Donald Trump wants to punish Canada and Canada now has to decide how to respond.
- [34:26]
Joe Matthew
Do we think it's punished Canada or use some leverage on Canada? As I understand it by reports, the United States is farther along with Mexico in negotiating on the USMCA than is with Canada. I'm not sure Canada's engaged that much. Is it possible this is just a
- [34:40]
Tom Carricko
way to get Canada to the table?
- [34:42]
Christia Freeland
I actually, David, agree with you about most things, but I don't think that's a fair interpretation at all. Canada has been ready, willing and able to negotiate any place, any time. The US did not have to impose tariffs to get Canada to negotiate. Canada wants to talk. Canada wants a deal. In fact, Canada has made a number of concessions, sort of bargaining against itself in advance, I guess, to show willingness to negotiate. Canada last year dropped the digital services tax. Canada has dropped most of its retaliation against the illegal and unjustified US 232 tariffs.
- [35:23]
Joe Matthew
So there you have it. We're all becoming experts on this. And of course, Christia Freeland already was. And you can catch the full conversation with David Westin, Bloomberg. Wall street week starts 6pm Wall street time, as we say here on Bloomberg TV and radio. Extending our conversation now on tariffs, geopolitics and diplomacy with a very special case guest here in our Washington bureau today, and it's Ireland's ambassador to the United States, Geraldine Byrne Nason with us in studio. What a treat. It's great to see you, Madam Ambassador. Welcome to Bloomberg.
- [35:52]
Host/Announcer
Thank you, Joe. Great to be with you.
- [35:54]
Joe Matthew
Can I say right on the air, you throw the best parties in Washington, D.C. not that I would be at any of them, but your residence and your embassy are very important venues for diplomacy and the application of soft power. Before I get to tariffs here, does Irish diplomacy work with the Trump administration?
- [36:16]
Host/Announcer
I'd like to say Irish diplomacy works with any administration anywhere. We have been very lucky here in the United States over a very long time, 100 years of independence to have good relationships across the aisle. And we work in good faith and sincerity with every occupation happened of the fighters.
- [36:36]
Joe Matthew
Well, I tell you, I want our audience to know a little bit about you because we talk to ambassadors, but then there are career diplomats who are experts in statecraft, and you're one of them. You served as Ireland's ambassador to France and Monaco. Had to be the best job you ever had. But you can tell me about that later. You were appointed Ireland's permanent representative to the UN which we're going to ask you about. You secured a seat for Ireland on the UN Security Security Council, which was a huge deal for your country and for the UN you spoke at the DNC in 2024, a speech that we all remember. And for one that's close to my heart, I just saw this on your wiki. You marched with Richie Neal and Holyoke, mass. In the St. Patrick's Day parade. No one knows where Holyoke is, Ambassador.
- [37:19]
Host/Announcer
It's the center of the world on St. Patrick's Day, that's for sure. I've never seen the St. Patrick Patrick's Day parade quite like it.
- [37:27]
Joe Matthew
Amazing.
- [37:28]
Host/Announcer
Deep on the deck chairs cheering on the Irish in Holyoke, Massachusetts.
- [37:33]
Joe Matthew
Pretty remarkable. I'm sure the chairman now ranking member, loved that with everything that I just said here. You have been around the horn when it comes to diplomacy. How do you manage a cycle of tariffs that the president is announcing today? Does this strain the relationship?
- [37:48]
Host/Announcer
Look, this is a challenging period for us internationally, but particularly economically and no secret, Ireland, the European Union doesn't think tariffs in general are a good idea. I just saw the latest news on tariffs as I arrived here to speak with you, Joe. Overnight, the Administration had made an announcement around a 10% global tariff and frankly, we in Europe welcomed that as good news.
- [38:17]
Public.com Advertiser
Really?
- [38:18]
Host/Announcer
That was positive. Last year the President, President Trump and President von der Leyen of the European Commission agreed an EU US Trade framework and that set tariffs at a ceiling of 15%. So last night when I saw the 10% announcement, I thought that was good news. The EU would be below the ceiling of 15% tariffs. We know it may not be the end of the story, but it was a positively received. Just now there has been an announcement that links tariffs with a fine or a series of fines that have been applied in terms of the European digital markets and that changes the conversation. It's, it's disappointing.
- [39:05]
Joe Matthew
Well, I'm going to ask you about that in a moment because that broke since we came to air and since you've been in our bureau. So I want to be fair as we read through this, this section 3, 301 tariff that was implemented this morning is based on forced labor via forced labor in the supply chain. Does the EU have something to worry about there?
- [39:22]
Jeff Mason
How do you respond to that?
- [39:23]
Host/Announcer
No, look, I mean, frankly, the rubric under which the decision was made we would take issue with. However, as I've said several times in any contacts I've had with U.S. business and I reflect Irish and European interest here, we want a stable, secure, predictable trade relationship with the United States. The EU and the U.S. trade over $4 billion a day. There are 4 million jobs that go with this relationship. 30% of global trade is between the EU and the U.S. this is in all our interest to stabilize it. So having that trade agreement and that framework makes good sense to us. The 301 was an instrument that I think this administration had to choose the court throughout. The last instrument, we were not recognizing that it has any implications for EU policy. But the actual framework in terms of the tariff level, as I said, was broadly positively received last night.
- [40:27]
Joe Matthew
He writes on Truth Social. The European Union is at it again and it's important. We should note, by the way, that this is an important time for Ireland as you currently hold the rotating presidency, the Council of the European Union. He's essentially accusing the EU of theft robbing American companies. And to your point, it refers to the fines on Apple, Meta, Google and Amazon and others. He's announcing a 301 investigation into what he says the practice of robbing American companies in in turn the American taxpayer. How would you respond to him and what do you expect this investigation to uncover?
- [41:04]
Host/Announcer
Look, as you said, it's just breaking news. So I won't have a definitive response. It's disappointing given the overnight news. What I will say is what I think the President is referring to. There is the announcement this week about a fine on Google for market practice under what's on going called the Digital Services Act. That's an act that is essentially about avoiding market abuse, protecting small and medium sized companies or startups in a market where you have huge actors who may take advantage of scale. The other companies mentioned have previously been found by independent investigations European courts to have abrogated the rules in the digital European market. This isn't extraterritorial. This applies only to companies who come in and operate in Europe. They do that because it's profitable for them and because it's good for U.S. business and for U.S. taxpayers. You know, we do not discriminate. I think you will have seen last week there was a fine against AliExpress, a Chinese operator. European companies have been fined. It happens to be U.S. companies that the President is referring to. It's non discriminatory. The European Commission, Ireland of course has its faith and trust in the work it does in terms of managing the market. So we have no qualms and we will hopefully get to a dialogue and to discuss exactly what the President means by this. The European European Commissioner for Trade, Marius Sefkovich works very closely with USTR Jemison Greer and I'm sure there will be conversations very quickly today about that.
- [42:53]
Public.com Advertiser
Yeah.
- [42:54]
Joe Matthew
Wow. Really interesting. I, I can't imagine you ever thought you'd have to be an expert on the, on the tariff regime, but here we are. Could you work out a trade deal in our remaining moment with the United States at the Irish Open? This is going to happen at his
- [43:08]
Host/Announcer
I have a good run at it. I have to say.
- [43:11]
Katie Frost
Yes.
- [43:11]
Host/Announcer
The President's Doonbeg Beautiful golf course will host the the President has been invited to Ireland every year by the Taoiseach and so we think he may well want to be on his own golf course. We have no confirmation yet. I look forward to being in Ireland around the same time as it happens.
- [43:30]
Joe Matthew
Okay.
- [43:30]
Host/Announcer
Great players like Rory McElroy, Shane Lowry are going to be on the course.
- [43:34]
Joe Matthew
You don't think he can resist being there for that?
- [43:36]
Host/Announcer
He's going to have probably irresistible, but
- [43:38]
Joe Matthew
we have to see Madam Ambassador, it means a lot for us to have you. I know you spent some time in our newsroom beforehand and it's great to have you here in studio with us on Bloomberg TV and radio. I thank you so much. Geraldine Byrne Nason if you're in Washington politics, this is one of the folks you turn to at times like these for insights and analysis and software power. As I mentioned, Ambassador, thank you. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington D.C. at noontime eastern@bloomberg.com
- [44:17]
Host/Announcer
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- [44:49]
Joe Matthew
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- [44:58]
Host/Announcer
Soon after, I was in their Kohler,
- [45:00]
Joe Matthew
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Host/Announcer
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Joe Matthew
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Host/Announcer
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Joe Matthew
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Host/Announcer
Cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live cast iron.