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Joe
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Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio news. You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [01:03]
Joe
Thanks for being with on the Thursday edition on Bloomberg TV and radio Markets chugging along here despite great uncertainty when it comes to geopolitics. And that's where we begin our coverage this hour. I'll let you know that Senator Ted Butt is going to be with us a bit later, along with Congresswoman Nicole Molly. Attack US of New York before we get that far, the news involving Iran is what did not happen last night. There were no strikes as some anticipated. There were headlines as we remember the Drudge Report Yesterday saying simply 24 hours, knowing as well that Americans were being evacuated from our massive air base in Qatar and US Allies were told to leave Iran. Enter President Trump in the Oval Office at an unrelated event yesterday saying the killing has stopped, suggesting there may not be a need for strikes. The President has been warning Iran not to execute protesters, even though some reports suggest more than 3,000 have been killed. Here's what the President said last evening.
- [02:01]
Rob Nichols
We've been told that the killing in Iran is stopping and it's stopped stopping and there's no plan for executions or an execution or executions. I'm sure if happens, we'll all be very upset. We're going to watch and see what the process is. But we were given a very good, very good statement by people that are aware of what's going on.
- [02:27]
Joe
The president suggesting the violence has stopped or is stopping, unclear which are true. But Lindsey Graham is taking issue. This is of course a close ally of the President. The Republican from South Carolina on Twitter writing every indication that I've seen says the Iranian regime's killing of protesters is still very much in full swing. The death toll, he writes, is mounting by the hour. Hoping that help is on the way, referring to a post from Donald Trump himself on Tuesday when he wrote, in all caps, help is on the way. Tyler Kendall, Bloomberg Washington correspondent, with us now with the latest on this and the other geopolitical reverberations at the White House. Tyler, are we to believe that strikes are off the table?
- [03:11]
Tyler Kendall
Well, this marks a shift in the messaging from President Trump. But to your question, the potential for military strikes still do remain on the table. Though his comments that you just heard there, along with this being paired with comments from a top, top Iranian official appearing to rule out the potential to carry out executions, seemed to narrow this window that a US Attack on Iran was imminent. But of course, as you outlined, this came just one day after President Trump urged Iranians to continue protesting and also said that help was on the way. So our analysts at Bloomberg Economics say that perhaps this could be strategic ambiguity. At this point, it's just too early to rule anything off the table. And there's a few different signs that we're watching. You mentioned one of them. The US did redeploy troops in Qatar and other American military bases in the region as tensions escalate. And we know that President Trump has been briefed every day this week on potential options in Iran, from airstrikes to cyber attacks to maybe diplomacy. Though President Trump earlier this week in a post on Truth Social said he was canceling all meetings between U.S. and Iranian officials. Now, of course, President Trump's threats have been heightened over the past week on the heels of the US Operation in Venezuela capturing Nicolas Maduro. But also the fact that reports have shown that the death toll has been rising. Statistics cited by Bloomberg News from the Iran Human Rights Group estimate that at least 3,400 protesters have died, making this one of the deadliest crackdowns in the country in decades.
- [04:46]
Joe
Joe, I want to ask you quickly, Tyler, about Venezuela. We have quite the guest at the White House today, Maria Karina Machado. She could be in the building. It's hard to tell because press not invited to the lunch. This is the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, the opposition leader in Venezuela. The timing is remarkable. Having heard from the president in that same Oval Office conversation. Delsey Rodriguez, the acting leader of Venezuela, is a, quote, really terrific person, unquote, to be a fly on the wall today.
- [05:17]
Tyler Kendall
Right. I mean, this is a high stakes meeting considering the backdrop here that the Trump administration has opt to work with those that are remaining in the government left behind by Nicolas Maduro instead of urging for this quick transition to democracy. And that cordial relationship that you just outlined could pose problematic for Machado and complicate things considering that the White House has suggested that she may not be a viable leader for the country. Now she's seeking to mend ties with the president. The foreign pooler and the notes that we get ahead of this visit from the White House indicated that she's going to be very complimentary of President Trump. She's going to urge him to release political prisoners, and she's basically seeking to mend ties here as a poll conducted for Bloomberg News finds that 51.6% of Venezuelans living in the country think that she should be the one to assume power. But Joe, as you well know, this administration often talks about the need to get Venezuela on more sound economic footing before they can talk about setting any potential election dates. And our reporting indicates that there are, that there are advisors that feel that Delsey Rodriguez may be a better pick for a gradual transition away from the hardline Maduro government instead of Machado assuming power. So we'll see where this goes. But a high stakes meeting today, importantly behind closed doors.
- [06:39]
Joe
Yeah, we'll see if they open things up and of course, we'll bring you in the room if they do. Tyler, thank you as always. Tyler Kendall, Bloomberg Washington correspondent, with some really interesting reporting as we get back to the matter involving Iran before we're joined by Heather Connelly, NBC reporting that the president is unconvinced by the military options he's been presented. As Tyler said, he's been briefed every day this week. Trump's advisers not able to guarantee to him that the regime would quickly collapse after an American military strike. Remembering, as we discussed yesterday, the USS Jerry Ford was redeployed from the Mediterranean to the Caribbean because of all of this business with Venezuela. Maybe that made a difference here. With concerns that we do not have all the assets in the region that would be needed to guard against an aggressive Iranian response. Let's bring in Heather Connelly, nonresident Senior Fellow at the aei, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs. Always look forward to your being with us. Heather, thank you for joining. Strikes appear to still be on the table, but less likely. Is that how you're looking at this?
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Heather Connelly
Yeah. Really unclear. I think the last 24 hours we got very close. You do to making a decision these 24 hour away.
- [07:53]
Joe
Reports were popping around this time yesterday that was Your thought as well?
- [07:56]
Heather Connelly
They really were, particularly because we were making decisions to evacuate or non essential personnel from bases. That usually is preparation for something. And certainly European as well as Israeli intelligence sources were saying this is imminent, it's coming. And then it stopped. And it feels like we're unrolling it a little bit. Some sources close to President Trump are suggesting this pause is because there's a bigger plan. I don't know if that's true or not, but clearly there's a couple of factors here. Number one, just our military capabilities, theater, as you mentioned. I think our Gulf allies have pressed very hard to think very carefully before we do this. And I said I think that, I think the president does need to think very carefully about this decision because it could unleash some really significant regional instability across the Middle East.
- [08:43]
Joe
Well, yeah, and we had, we heard these stories as well last summer when the first strikes were conducted. There's been reporting that we're moving another carrier strike group from the Pacific. I don't know if that's the Lincoln or what would end up in the Mediterranean. Might we be waiting for that?
- [08:58]
Heather Connelly
Yeah. I mean, and there are different. It's reported, it's the Lincoln. We don't know that for confirmation, you know, and carriers take anywhere between two to three weeks potentially. It certainly took when we moved the USS forward out of the Eastern Med into the eastern Caribbean, it did take up to 15, 20 days. So it's certainly they would want more strike capacity and more protective capacity, particularly against an Iranian counter strike. Whether they'll wait or not, we don't know.
- [09:24]
Joe
Endgame, I guess remains a question here as well. How far are you planning to go when you're talking about strikes? Are we talking about eliminating the supreme leader? I mean, this would create a power vacuum the likes we haven't seen in modern times.
- [09:38]
Tyler Kendall
Right.
- [09:39]
Heather Connelly
And I think this is where understanding what is the strike. Are we talking about the Iran Revolutionary Guard Corps, the leadership, the hierarchy, Ayatollah himself? But then it gets in sort of the split screen of what's happening today with the President's lunch with the Venezuelan opposition leader is not an easy answer here after you remove the top echelon of the Iranian government. And there is a variety of ethnic groups within Iran. Everyone has competing interests. So it's not going to be as easy as the Venezuela operation appeared, which we know it was not easy, but it seemed easy.
- [10:17]
Joe
Why isn't Maria Machado sitting somewhere in Caracas running the country of Venezuela?
- [10:22]
Heather Connelly
Well, again, this is the decision about when you Remove the top individual. The system remains. You have to remove the system.
- [10:29]
Joe
And I think that everyone but Maduro is still there.
- [10:31]
Heather Connelly
The White House really, I think, made a calculated decision that it was more important for them to have control over the situation and to, to give Delse Rodriguez and Opera, you know, to control this so they could achieve their aims, which is obviously control over the Venezuelan energy sector.
- [10:50]
Joe
We just got a breaking story here, and I'm not trying to sneak up on you, but you're going to, you're going to be fascinated by this New York Times scoop. Benjamin Netanyahu called Donald Trump yesterday and asked him to postpone any plans for an American military attack on Iran. Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Egypt have also been asking, as you just referred, the Trump administration not to attack. Why would Netanyahu be in that crowd?
- [11:17]
Heather Connelly
Yeah, it has been really curious and there's been some very good reporting. Prime Minister Netanyahu has been very quiet, which is unusual because we come to think that really one of the key goals of Israel has been. Exactly. Regime change to completely transform Iran away from, you know, obviously building nuclear weapons and attacking, annihilating Israel. But it's strange. I mean, we can only suppose we need to hear from the Israeli government itself. But I think, again, it's this regional instability. Look, the Israeli government is stretched and military. Gaza, Syria, south Lebanon, and we blew a lot of our missile interceptors and our defensive knees during the 12 Day War. We have to make sure that we are prepared for an Iranian counterattack. So that could be one explanation. But again, you'd think the 12 Day War was a real boon in some ways to the Prime Minister. It unified Israeli society. He got a popularity bump. He's looking at an election this year. But that, I mean, that sends a message that when the leaders are saying, we're not ready for this, we want you to wait.
- [12:24]
Joe
Well, do we not believe reports that Netanyahu asked Trump to strike Iran again when he was last in town?
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Heather Connelly
Well, this was their, their, their meeting in Mar a Lago at the end of the year was. They were completely on the same page. So, yes, I think we don't quite understand what's underneath this. It could be military preparedness. Just need to wait a little bit. It could be. Take some time to plan for this. You're not ready for this. If you do decide to take.
- [12:49]
Joe
Maybe there's new intelligence, in other words. You made a great point, though. We expended a lot of hardware in the 12 Day War. We also destroyed a lot of hardware in Iran and the idea that this window would not be open forever. Having pounded their air defenses, is that still the case?
- [13:06]
Heather Connelly
So I think there's a high degree of confidence that Iran has not had an opportunity to rebuild its air defenses. And yes, the Israelis did really decimate that, but they haven't eliminated the missiles from Iran. And this is where we've seen, even at the end of 12 days, some of the Iranian missiles were beginning to have some impact against Iron Dome. And this is exactly why the administration, you know, has really tripled the increase of Patriot batteries. I mean, the demand is so great in Ukraine, in Taiwan, in the Middle East. This is where our defense production capacity has got to meet.
- [13:44]
Joe
This moment you just threw down Ukraine and Taiwan. So I have to ask you if you buy the conventional wisdom now that President Trump's actions in Venezuela, Iran, maybe others, Colombia, seems to be off the table for now, emboldened China when it comes to Taiwan and embolden Russia when it comes to Ukraine. Is it as simple as that or more complicated?
- [14:07]
Heather Connelly
It's much more complicated. And I would say the Chinese believe they are on their own time schedule, that this, this doesn't necessarily impact their decision. And in fact, the Chinese have been, you know, there's been some blows to their international posture in Venezuela and potentially Iran and elsewhere, I think, for the Russians. And I'm glad you mentioned it because there are reports that Special envoy Witkoff and Mr. Kushner may be heading towards Moscow at the end of this month. And we had a setback with President Trump again saying that the Ukrainians are and President Zelensky is the impasse to peace. That's absolutely not the case. There is a peace plan that his negotiators have helped create. Vladimir Putin is not interested in that. If anything, we just heard from Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov yesterday saying, actually we are, we have bigger plans and they're thinking about even greater territorial acquisition, even beyond what they recommended in the first 28 point peace plan. So we are a bubble in 15 days into this year, Joe. So we're going to have a lot of conversations about this.
- [15:15]
Joe
Boy. Heather, thank you. It's great to have you back with us. Heather Connelly at the aei, the American Enterprise Institute, at another dangerous moment in time. I want to take a quick pass with our panel on everything that we just talked about. Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeannie Shan Zaino are with us. Rick is partner at Stone Court Capital. Republican strategist Rick, is the president just playing a bit of a shell game here. I remember the last time he told us we'd have two weeks. The bombing started within 24 hours. Yeah.
- [15:42]
Rick Davis
I think that you could be seeing a psyops kind of effort, you know, to distract what's going on on the ground, buy some time to get, you know, various troops in position. And that's certainly been the case in the past, as you mentioned. But also it's kind of hard to tell what's happening on the ground. We're not getting good information. The communications have been jammed by the regime. And so, you know, from the outside looking in, it's awful hard to tell what kind of situation exists on the ground and whether or not attacks may put protesters even in more harm's way. So I think we've got to just wait and see on this one. And I don't think you want to spend a lot of time chewing on the news because a lot of that is propaganda coming out of Iran and probably a little bit of propaganda coming out of the United States.
- [16:31]
Joe
Well, and apparently there's something coming out of Israel. Now. If you're just joining us, Benjamin Netanyahu, according to the New York Times, spoke with Donald Trump yesterday and asked him to postpone plans to strike Iran. We'll have more with Jeannie Shann Zaino and with Rick Davis. Our panel is with us for the hour. And coming up, our conversation with Senator Ted Budd, the Republican from North Carolina, with much to discuss here on the Congressional Agenda, government funding and health care. It's all straight ahead on Balance OF Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Stay with us. On BALANCE of power. We'll have much more coming up after this.
- [17:09]
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- [17:59]
Rob Nichols
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures.
- [18:18]
Podcast Announcer
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa.
- [18:35]
Joe
Play Bloomberg 1130 here on Bloomberg TV and radio. Thank you for joining us on the Thursday edition of Balance of Power. It was just a couple of days ago we spent some time with Senator Roger Marshall. The Republican from Kansas was brought back to life by this idea of capping interest rates on credit cards. After the President went on Truth Social to push this idea. That was Marshall's legislation and he's putting it back together to make good on this cap on credit card interest rates 10% for one year, which has been very controversial with some in Washington knowing, of course, that the likes of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders preferred such an idea. The banks and some Republicans, not so much. I spoke earlier today, in fact, with the face of American banking, Rob Nichols, who leads the American Bankers association. His thoughts on this idea.
- [19:28]
Rob Nichols
Listen, I think the administration wants to help people here. They're concerned about affordability. I respect that. Unfortunately, as you learn the details of a rate cap, it actually harm the people the administration are attempting to help. Tens of millions of Americans would lose their credit cards. That would have spillover impacts on airlines, on restaurants, on retailers, on hotels. That would create a negative economic downward spiral, spiral in the economy.
- [19:58]
Joe
This is where we start our conversation with Senator Ted Budd. The Republican from North Carolina is back with us live from Capitol Hill on Bloomberg TV and Radio. And Senator, it's great to see you. We spent some time with your colleague Thom Tillis last evening and it's great to make this whole. Now for the state of North Carolina, I'm wondering your thoughts on capping credit card rates, knowing you've got some pretty big banks in your state. The likes of bank of America might not love this idea. Do you?
- [20:23]
Senator Ted Budd
Well, it's not about the big banks. It's about helping folks. And I think Rob was right. The folks that they are trying to help right now, this actually would hurt. You've got about $3.6 trillion of our economy going through credit cards right now. That's about 12% of our GDP. And ultimately you're going to have about, you're going to have 100 million people. You're going to have a lot of people that will not have access to credit if they cap this because remember these are risk adjusted rates. And if all of a sudden you cap it at 10, there's a lot of folks that don't fit under that. I don't want to encourage consumer debt. I don't want somebody to finance a pair of sneakers. But there are a lot of people that have pop up medical expenses or quick home repair that they don't have any other avenue to. And if you cap this, you're going to move a lot of people off of this and then if they need money for an emergency, they're going to end up going to loan shark. So I think the people that you're trying to help, it actually doesn't and it's a bad idea.
- [21:15]
Rob Nichols
Yeah.
- [21:16]
Joe
Okay. Well, not mincing words there. You know, we heard from the CFO at JPMorgan Chase when the earnings report hit earlier this week, Senator, a pretty interesting take. Jeremy Barnum said, our belief is that actually this will have the exact opposite consequence to what the administration wants. That's basically what you're saying. Have you delivered that message to the White House?
- [21:39]
Senator Ted Budd
I have. I've been very consistent on this. I mean, this idea just keeps going, coming up like a zombie every few years. Long before I was ever in Congress, I was just trying, trying to, you know, manage a young family. And I had a debit card that actually got airline points years and years ago. And that's how, you know, we would travel as a family. But I was using a debit card. But after the first Durbin amendment went through which dealt with the interchange fees on debit cards, again, these debit cards went, they lost all the rewards. And then it moved people. It's fine with me, but it moved, it moved some people that didn't need to be on credit products into the credit world, thus encouraging some consumer debt. Again, I just say let the market handle this. You're trying to help people with affordability. Let's do permitting reform. There are so many things we can do on this other than this Durbin amendment. I think it's a bad idea and there's so many good things that we could be doing.
- [22:31]
Joe
Well, you know, we talk about affordability and health care premiums fall into that category, which has been a raging debate on Capitol Hill. As you're getting ready to leave here to get back to the home district for some time, I'm just wondering how you're looking at the Moreno bill and other attempts to revive these expanded Obamacare subsidies. The open enrollment period is closing right now. Senator, is it too late? Are we giving up the ghost on this? Will you be up with a new plan?
- [22:57]
Senator Ted Budd
Look, I love Bernie Marino. I don't agree with him on this, but I do think we need to help folks have high quality health care at a reasonable price. We've got all the levers in this economy and in this country to do so. We have the best quality health care. But again, it's very expensive. And I really think that what Obamacare did 16 years ago, remember that didn't pass by breaking a filibuster that passed with 60 Democrats. It was a high water mark for them, but a low water mark for the individuals that are subject to Obamacare. They broke Obamacare in 2009. They figured out it didn't work, so they propped it up with subsidies. Then they set dates for those subsidies companies to expire. And that's up with right now. It's what we're up against right now. So I don't think you need to keep propping it up. I think we need to get something that doesn't give all this money to insurance companies. And by the way, if you look at their stock prices over the last 15 years, that's fine if they want to be a great company and create a great product for people. But we sent all these federal dollars to them and steered it away from the individual. So they've lost consumer choice and people have lost their options. And they said, if you want your doctor, you can keep your doctor. But that wasn't true. I think we need to give people more choice, more options and put money in their pocket.
- [24:05]
Joe
You know, I've also been looking at stocks in defense contractors, Senator, which have been cranking lately with just so much business. And now the new prospect of a 50% increase to a trillion and a half dollar defense budget, according to Donald Trump. You're on Armed Services, you're on intel. And I'm deeply curious to hear your thoughts about what's going on or not right now in Iran. The president last evening said the killing has stopped. Some softer rhetoric when it comes to the mass protests there. Caroline Levitt just now in the briefing room says Donald Trump warned Iran of consequences for protester deaths, grave consequences if Iran killings continue. He spoke with Benjamin Netanyahu last evening who reportedly asked him to postpone attacks. Do we need to strike Iran again, Senator? Is that we want to do this?
- [24:52]
Senator Ted Budd
Anything we do, we want to do it in conjunction with our allies. We don't want to be a sole actor there. But again, we want to support the Iranian people who've been oppressed for the last 50 some years. It's been absolutely heartbreaking what's been going on since 1979 with the Ayatollah in the regime there. It's not the people, it's the regime. And anything we can do, whether it's sanctions which he's placed on there. And again, I don't think after forever wars in the Middle east that the people want boots on the ground. We want an effect, but we don't want to be there forever. I think we love our young men and women in uniform too much to send them over there, especially on a long term basis. But what you did see is a very precision strike in Iran back in June. And then more recently, you saw a very precision operation in conjunction with law enforcement on Maduro. So we get in, we get the effect done, we get out, no boots on the ground.
- [25:44]
Joe
You want to see a carrier strike group back in the Med, reportedly the Lincoln is on its way. Is that how you understand it?
- [25:50]
Senator Ted Budd
Well, we always want to be ready and it's better to be prepared than to be behind the curve on this. And I think that's what President Trump's thinking. He's always ahead of the curve on these and I'm grateful for it.
- [26:01]
Joe
It's great to have you back, Senator. We appreciate the insights. Ted Budd, Republican from North Carolina, with us live from Capitol Hill as we reassemble our political panel. Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie, Shan Zaino and Rick Davis are with us.
- [26:13]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
Us.
- [26:14]
Joe
That was really interesting to hear from Senator Ted Bud. When it comes to credit cards and interest rates, Jeannie, you've obviously got a Republican in this case. As I mentioned, bank of America is in his state in North Carolina. But it gives us a sense of some of the opposition the president might run into with this credit card issue. Is, is this DOA on Capitol Hill?
- [26:39]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
It depends. I think if the president can pull together some populist Republicans, match them with some populist Democrats and get enough there, we can see though. And I think that was really fascinating. He described it as sort of a zombie that keeps coming up. A bad idea that keeps coming up. But the fact is it is a bad idea for the big banks. It's not a bad idea for American consumers who need immediately immediate and significant relief.
- [27:06]
Heather Connelly
Relief.
- [27:07]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
And for the big banks have got to find better ways to lend money. They need better models because what they're doing is they are getting profit out of small consumers and that is what is driving the enormous debt that Americans are feeling. So I think Donald Trump's on the right side of the politics here, but whether he can push this through. The big banks have a big lobby and we're seeing the pushback from Republicans.
- [27:30]
Joe
Yeah. What are you hearing about this, Rick? Big banks are pretty good at, at quashing moves like these. They've certainly been undefeated on this score so far. Are Republicans going to support this or is Ted Budd speaking for the Republican led Senate?
- [27:48]
Rick Davis
Yeah, I think what makes this different is that you're going to have a, you have a Republican president actually running high cover for the Democrats, you know, and that the banks were unprepared for this debate when the President brought it up. So banks flat footed a Republican president with lots of stroke in the House of Representatives at least and a lot in the Senate is giving oxygen to a debate that otherwise would have been a straight line party line vote which meant in this Congress it wouldn't succeed. So I don't think you can count it out. As I've said before, I think that you, you win more than you lose if you bank on the banking lobby in Washington. They're extraordinarily effective as you just saw Ted Budd articulating the big commercial bank's position on this. So I think you're going to have a lot of wood to chop on this before it's done because of the President's willingness to lobby on behalf of the anti bank coalition in Congress right now. And that's something we've never seen. So this is different.
- [28:59]
Joe
Guinea, are you losing optimism in a revival of Obamacare subsidies after what you just heard from the senator? This seemed to have some momentum. I'm not sure where we are now. Everyone's going home tonight.
- [29:12]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
Yeah. I mean it's just hard to believe that once again they are going back home and nothing has been done. And of course the clock has been ticking. It's pretty much already run out for the millions of people and, and I again do not understand the politics of this from the Republicans perspective. Millions of people in their states and their districts are suffering. This is the very type of thing that can turn the House and potentially the Senate Democratic in the fall. So I don't understand the politics of this. I think it's an enormous mistake, but I don't have faith it's going to, they're going to be able to push this through. Democrats.
- [29:51]
Rob Nichols
Wow.
- [29:51]
Joe
Well, I guess we got another fly out day, at least for the upper chamber. Jeannie Shan Zaino and Rick Davis, thank you. As ever Bloomberg Politics contributors. We'll have a lot more ahead, including our conversation with Congresswoman Nicole Molly Osakis, the Republican from New York. Stay with us On Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this.
- [30:11]
Wise Sponsor
Support for the show comes from public on public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public.
- [31:02]
Rob Nichols
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment record, recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures.
- [31:22]
Podcast Announcer
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and 5pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [31:38]
Joe
Nice day on the markets as we argue about plastic here in Washington, D.C. not the material but the credit cards and specifically interest rates after Donald Trump went on social media to suggest that all credit card interest rates be capped at 10% for the next year. This has caused some angst in the banking industry and on the Republican side of the aisle, as we just discovered in our conversation with Senator Ted Budd. We're going to be talking momentarily with Republican Congresswoman Nicole Maliatakis and we'll take her temperature on this idea. With legislation now being codified on Capitol Hill to make good on what President Trump is asking for legislation that you might more closely associate with the likes of Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders than a Republican on Capitol Hill. I talked about this whole idea earlier with the face of American banking. As we already told you, the President and CEO of the American Banking Bankers Association, Rob Nichols, joined us earlier today here in our Washington bureau for his take on this. Listen, what are you hearing from, from members of both sides of the aisle. We're hearing Republicans sign onto this, actually.
- [32:51]
Rob Nichols
Well, I've seen what interesting is you mentioned Republicans, Speaker Johnson, Senate Majority Leader John Thune, Chairman French Hill of the House Financial Services Committee and Chairman Tim Scott of the Senate Banking Committee. All four have said this is really bad policy. Policy. I've also seen Democrats make those same points as well. So we've seen, yes, there's one or two people on the Hill who think it's good public policy. The overwhelming majority of folks in both parties on Capitol Hill realize government price caps, government price controls don't work. They won't work here. They haven't worked in the past. And so we're going to continue to make our voice heard that there are other ways to help the American people. This is not a good one.
- [33:30]
Joe
We're going to place this to Senator Ted Budd a little bit later on. He's got bank of America obviously in his state and is one of the Republicans who did sign on to this. We're speaking to the consumer impact here. What would it mean for the banking business to be capped at 10%? Yeah.
- [33:44]
Rob Nichols
So. Well, first of all for the American people would be terrible. So many tens of millions of people would lose their credit cards. So that's not good. And then obviously it would impact the banking sector as well. That's a secondary matter. We're more concerned about the broader U.S. economy economy than the profitability of banks.
- [33:58]
Joe
Okay. I want your broader view on what's happening here in the banking sector and what some have forecast. A golden age. You look at a chart of Goldman Sachs or even some of the money center banks, they look like a stocks recently. And I know we're grinding through some earnings reporting this week that that is putting some noise around the banks. But I'm just wondering what you see in the year ahead when it comes to deregulation, when it comes to crypto, the IPO pipeline. This is Bloomberg, of course, from an institutional standpoint is the golden age 2026.
- [34:31]
Rob Nichols
Well, I'd say a couple of things, Joe. Number one, the regulatory direction of travel, the right sizing that the new regulatory executives have been have been doing is really welcome. So I want to praise the administration for particularly the appointees they put at the Fed, the FCC and the fdic. I think understand the really important role banks play to spur and grow the US Economy.
- [34:49]
Joe
So that's number one.
- [34:50]
Rob Nichols
Number one. Number two on the M and A side that you alluded to. Yes, I think there's going to be more of an openness towards M and A. I don't think every deal gets done and that's fine. They should all be scrutinized. Every application should be scrutinized. But I think under the previous administration there was a reluctance to allow these important partners and these important institutions to get together when there was a geographical or cultural reason that made a lot of sense for banks to merge. So I think there's an open this towards M and A, which is great. The regulatory right sizing in the direction of travel is great. And so I do think there is a positive path forward for the US Banking sector. Earnings have demonstrated that. The FDIC in the recent quarterly banking report said that the sector looks resilient, credit quality is strong. We are in a really good place to help spur and buoy economic growth for the United States States. And we're working with a group of regulatory stakeholders who get the important role that banks can play to be that cardiovascular system of the US Economy.
- [35:52]
Joe
Understood. You losing any sleep over this investigation into Jay Powell? Does that bring just in its own essence, systemic risk?
- [36:00]
Rob Nichols
I would say that is certainly noise. And I would say this Fed independence is incredibly important for a free market economy. That's something the ABA has believed in forever and we will continue to as well. I will say this. I've known Chairman Jay Powell for a long time. He is a man of integrity. He is a public servant and has spent many, many years serving the American people. We may not agree on everything from a monetary policy standpoint or a regulatory standpoint, but I would say this Fed independence is incredibly important for a free market economy, for dollar sovereignty. I'm not in a position to comment on the investigation itself, but Fed independence now and going forward is incredibly important.
- [36:41]
Joe
Yeah. All right, there you have it from Rob Nichols, President CEO of the American Bankers association, spent some time with us to talk about a number of issues, including this effort to cap credit card interest rates. It's not the reason why we invited the congresswoman to join us, but we'll take her temperature on this along with a number of issues that are popping on Capitol Hill. Nicole, Molly Attack, us Republican from New York is with us in studio in Washington and it's great to have you back on on Bloomberg TV and radio.
- [37:06]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
Good to be with you.
- [37:07]
Joe
Is this a Republican or a conservative concept, the idea of capping interest rates on credit cards or something that you're comfortable with?
- [37:14]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
Well, I think in general a lot of Republican members, including myself, have expressed concerns with any type of price controls.
- [37:20]
Senator Ted Budd
Right.
- [37:21]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
That's not something that we generally believe in. We applaud the president for trying to address this issue of affordability. And quite frankly, 29% is a little bit ridiculous. Right. I mean, you know, I can go to loan shark down the block in my district and basically get a better deal.
- [37:36]
Senator Ted Budd
Yeah.
- [37:36]
Joe
The issue, I think sharks.
- [37:38]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
No, of course we don't. Just joking.
- [37:41]
Joe
But then to Staten Island.
- [37:43]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
But the reality is, is that, you know, how can we address this? I actually was speaking to somebody who represents a credit union the other day, and they are capped at 18% about that. So maybe, maybe 18% should be more of what we're looking at for a 1:1 year to kind of bring it in par. But I think this is going to be a real big discussion on Capitol Hill because I can tell you I was a member, member of the Main Street Caucus, which is more, you know, center right. Members of our conference, a lot of them have expressed concerns about this in our last meeting, which took place on Monday. And so I do believe that this is really, really going to be going to be something that he's going to get a lot of opposition to on the Hill.
- [38:23]
Joe
This falls into the whole affordability category. You can come at this from a lot of different ways, whether it's housing, whether it's pharmaceuticals. Obamacare subsidies is one that we have been talking about a lot. And as the Senate prepares to go home today, there are some saying that this Bernie Moreno bill is going nowhere, that it's time for a new plan. Open enrollment is closing. Where are we in this debate?
- [38:48]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
Yeah, look, I think that the president just a little while ago came out with his great health care plan, and we're currently reviewing that. It does hit on a lot of the points. I mean, I think one of the big issues where we see some opportunity is pharmaceuticals. Right. He's proposed his most favored nation. He wants to pay Americans to pay the same price that many other countries are paying. Why are we subsidizing the research and on top of it paying the highest prices? So he has a point with that. But I think the bigger issue is PBM reform. If we want to rein in those PBMs that are those middlemen between the insurance companies and the pharmacies. And in some cases there's vertical integration where the insurance company is the PBM and the pharmacy. And that is, I think, a real problem because we're seeing them put small mom and pop pharmacies out of business. They're dictating what Their competitors are making and they are have no transparency in terms of, you know, what's going on in the middle, in between phase and how much they're profiting. So, in fact, our committee next week, Ways and Means is going to be having these health insurance executives that do also own these PBMs come before us. And the question, it's going to be interesting, especially when we, when we ask them about the 230% increase in profits and the premiums increasing at the same time despite those taxpayer subsidies. That's going to be a big topic, I think, in the next couple of weeks. Interesting. And we'll see where that goes. But I'm hopeful that we're still going to get something done a bipartisan way, if not through reconciliation. What the president proposed, proposed today could be done through the reconciliation process, which means only Republicans are needed to pass it.
- [40:28]
Rick Davis
Yes.
- [40:28]
Joe
Wow, interesting. So reconciliation 2.0 is real for you?
- [40:32]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
I think it's a possibility. I think, look, our margin keeps getting slimmer and slimmer, but I think that's very well possible maybe as it relates to health care and housing. There's a lot of discussion surrounding housing and affordability there. I think one of the biggest things we also need to do, and I think as it relates to credit card companies, financial literacy is so important. Right. Teaching young people about what it means to take on debt and what's behind the actual dollar. And I think that that's something we need to get back to the basics in our education system.
- [41:07]
Joe
You need to get a Bloomberg terminal in every classroom. I didn't really say that I want to ask you about immigration because the conversation that we had so frequently throughout the campaign has evolved following the ICE raids. We saw the deadly shooting in Minneapolis. You can't wake up in the morning without the doom scroll on your phone and seeing somebody pull out of a car, pulled out of their home. President, actually, if you go back and listen to his rhetoric on the campaign trail, actually said in an interview, this, this could be difficult for some people to see. Is this what you expect, expected?
- [41:42]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
Look, I think, I think what we really wanted and needed, particularly my district, was the president to one, secure the border, which he's done. We now have zero crossings and number two, deport the criminals. Right. And I think that in many ways they've been very successful. We are seeing thousands of criminals that have committed real serious crimes, deported. Those migrant shelters that were popping up all over New York City being funded by the taxpayer are now closed. But we also see that there are areas where they've gone too far. And we've had a real discussion about this with the speaker and with the White House because we want to see some type of balance here.
- [42:22]
Tyler Kendall
Right?
- [42:22]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
And I think that's what the American people want. So you secure the border, you're deporting the criminals. But when it comes to these raids, I think. I think they are problematic. But I think the other issue is that the municipalities are not cooperating to deport those criminals. So if they're not turning over these people, which. In New York City recently, there was an article saying 7,000 individuals, including murderers and rapists, were released back onto the street instead of turned over to ice. And so when you have a situation where the local government is not cooperating to enforce the laws of our nation, these raids happen because now they got to go in there and find those criminals. And the problem is you're putting public at risk, you're putting those officers at risk. And so we really do need to see a cooperation, some common ground. They're going to focus on those criminals, but we need these local governments to cooperate with us. And then the second part of this is obviously immigration reform. You know, there's a group of U.S. hispanic Republicans who met with the speaker recently. We've been also pushing for a meeting with the President himself to talk about the need for immigration reform. I represent a district where we have a very diverse population. And even, you know, this Ukrainian parole program, that's now when people have to renew for that, it's taking a very long time. And these people are here legally and working, and they end up losing their jobs because they can't get their parole renewed. And we're seeing the same thing with work authorizations and visas. People who are here doing the right thing, follow the rules, they're working hard, they're paying taxes. And you know what? They lose their legal status, and then they lose their job. And unfortunately, we need to figure out a system that improves that and also gives more employers opportunities to hire foreign workers for jobs that they cannot fill with Americans.
- [44:10]
Joe
Well, that was a comprehensive answer, and I only have a minute left. I want to just see your thought on the discord over the these ICE raids impacting the budget for dhs. Could this hold up funding at the end of the month?
- [44:25]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
Quite frankly, I think the Democrats are playing politics here with this. I think that, first of all, we just gave billions of dollars to our ICE to be able to carry out these deportations in the reconciliation bill, where you're going to see some impact if they choose to take this route. Coast Guard, for example, is going to get hurt. Hurt. These are serious other federal law enforcement, they're the ones that are going to get impacted. Counterterrorism, cybersecurity, our coastline, those are the areas we're going to see some impact if they don't work with us to get the job done and fund the government.
- [44:58]
Joe
Even some Democrats tell us they don't have an appetite for another shutdown. So we'll find out together. Congresswoman Nicole Molly attack us from New York. Thank you so much as always. This is Bloomberg. Stay with us On Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming up after this.
- [45:13]
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- [46:03]
Rob Nichols
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- [46:22]
Podcast Announcer
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- [46:41]
Joe
I'm guessing they're into lunch by now. I don't know if if we know that they've started here. This is of course on the President's schedule. Maria Corina Machado. Yeah, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, which she indicated he might want to share with her. I don't know that the Nobel folks see it the same way. Sitting down for lunch in what at least until now is a closed press meeting. We're not going to see the video unless the White House provides it later. Of these two Sitting down to eat. And you're kind of, I mean, wondering, what's the vibe in the room? What are they eating? What are they serving? What's coming out of the White House mess that you put in front of a Nobel Peace Prize winner? The Agriculture Secretary has a thought on this. In fact, she was talking about this a bit yesterday in the Oval Office and then again in an interview on tv. What the independent is referring to as the Depression meal. I want you to get your head around this because lunch is cheaper than you thought. The Depression meal, a lunch that will only cost you $3. This, of course, is in the spirit of affordability, the issue that's driving the American voter. Listen to what Brooke Rollins said on NewsNation.
- [47:57]
Heather Connelly
Are we asking them to spend more on their diet?
- [47:59]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
And the answer to that is no.
- [48:01]
Heather Connelly
We've run over a thousand simulations. It can cost around $3ameal for a piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, you know, corn tortilla, and one other thing. And so there is a way to do this that actually will save the average American consumer money.
- [48:21]
Joe
Begging the question, what's the other thing, by the way? A thousand simulations. And that's what we came up with. A piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli. Not the, not even the crown. I would say the piece of a corn tortilla. And one other thing thing. I'm pretty sure that's not a prime rib. Although if you look at the upside down food pyramid, you might expect that to be on the menu. A ribby for everyone. Now, if you're the president, you might be splurging today. And this is where we're getting back to our lunch with Donald Trump, because the health secretary even weighed in on this. What do you think the President is eating? RFK Jr did the Katie Miller podcast. And yeah, we're going back to McDonald's on this. When we talk about it a lot, we ought to ask them to sponsor the program. To be perfectly honest with you, knowing that what's an extra value meal you get? A Big Mac meal is 8 bucks, 10 bucks at this point. And one other thing I want you to hear the health secretary who yesterday was talking about the importance of eating real foods, right? Not processed foods, real foods to stay healthy and keep our cognitive health where it needs to be. The president is an exception, according to RFK Jr. Listen.
- [49:45]
Rick Davis
Oh, you know, the interesting thing about the president is that he eats really bad food, which is McDonald's, and then, you know, candy and Diet Coke, but.
- [49:58]
Joe
He drinks the Diet Coke all times.
- [50:01]
Rick Davis
He has a constitution of a deity. I don't know how he's alive, but he is.
- [50:07]
Joe
I don't know how he's alive, but he is. Is the official statement from the health secretary. Forget the Diet Coke button. Did you see the jug of milk on the Resolute desk yesterday? Maybe we're getting confused in our messaging, so we assembled our political panel to help us straight things out. Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeannie Shansena are with us. Thank you both for humoring me. Rick is Republican strategist, partner at Stone Court Capitol, and a smiling Jeannie Shan Zaino, democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ashe Center. Jeannie, if I gave you three bucks, now you think you could buy lunch with it? And what is that other thing?
- [50:47]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
There's a lot to chew on here, Joe. Matthew, pun intended. It's like a joke, I think. Thank you. You know, it feels like in both of these cases, these are cabinet secretaries run amok. First of all, it's very confusing because you and I talked the other day and didn't RFK put cheeseburgers at the top of the food pyramid at this point. So now what's wrong with it? I'm with Donald Trump on this and who wants, you know, it'd be one thing if Donald Trump was, you know, in his 50s or 60s, but as he approaches his eighth decade, maybe he doesn't want cabinet secretaries going out and saying, I don't know. But he seems to be alive despite it all sorts of. So, you know, I think somebody in the PR shops got to get these cabinet secretaries and both sides contained. They are out of control and off message.
- [51:38]
Joe
Wow. James is, is pointing me in the right, I guess. McDonald's. If you get the McDonald's app, Rick, you can get a free Big Mac with your first purchase of a dollar or more. Wow, that's better than the $3 piece of broccoli. Rick, they're comparing this to when Jimmy Carter told people, turn the heat down and wear a cardigan sweater. Is this the message of abundance you expected from the Trump White House?
- [52:03]
Rick Davis
Yeah, it's hard to swallow the secretary of health saying that, you know, we've got a president who can barely make it through the day because of the bad food that he eats, especially the same month that he reports a brand new food pyramid. So sorry for the pun, Jeannie. Can't get away with it without me trying to. And, but it's, it's almost like there's a conspiracy in this administration's Cabinet to fuel late night talk show hosts with material so that they can expand their audience share. You almost wish you were a writer for those guys because it writes itself.
- [52:39]
Joe
I don't know.
- [52:41]
Rick Davis
First of all, I like chicken and broccoli. I think it's a really good idea diet wise. Whether or not I want to suggest that. I've run simulations a thousand times times to advise the American public on our eating habits. That's just a little bit too much use of a computer. So look out of touch, you know, not being empathetic with people who only have $3 for food. I mean, like, I just think tone death may be the answer of the day for this one.
- [53:10]
Joe
Cece's got an idea here. Jeannie. Cici's favorite is the singular corn tortilla. You don't get two, you get one corn tortilla. That's how we get it down to $3. Are we supposed to put the chicken and the broccoli in the tortilla? I guess is my question here. Maybe that one extra thing could be, you know, some sour cream. But Jeannie, just hold on and go back to what RFK Jr said. I don't know how he's alive, but he is. Imagine if the secretary of Health and Human Services in the last administration said that about Joe Biden.
- [53:44]
Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis
Biden.
- [53:45]
Joe
What would have happened?
- [53:47]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
Joe, first of all, I'm not sure that they priced in sour cream for you, so I think you're really stepping out there with the sour cream. Pull it back, Joe. Matthew, you're getting one tortilla, one piece of broccoli, and one piece of chicken. My advice is don't, like, put it all in one. Because if you want to spread it out, eat them separately because you're not getting that sour cream. Joe, A thousand simulations, that's all you get. Three pieces.
- [54:11]
Joe
She.
- [54:12]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
Can you. Can you imagine? And on Katie Miller's podcast, nonetheless, where all of MAGA seems to be going these days, he has that to say. We thought for a moment that this was sort of an outlet of the administration, that they could go there. It was a safe place to sort of let their hair down and share. But I'm not sure anybody wanted them to share this much. So. So yeah, you wouldn't say it about Joe Biden. If you're in that administration, you shouldn't say it now. Again, Donald Trump is going out there saying, I'm healthy as a horse. I, you know, cognitively the best. You know, my test wouldn't be better. And his health secretary is saying, he can't believe he's alive in mouth for.
- [54:55]
Joe
Time, drinking Diet Coke all day. I could use a refill on the Diet Coke here in a minute. But, you know, by the way RFK Jr. Described at the beginning of this, I don't just watch the highlights, guys. I watch that whole thing. He told Katie Miller about his affinity for sauerkraut. Rick, he actually brings sauerkraut with him when he goes out to restaurants. You know, some people might have a little hot sauce in their, in their bag or something. He's got sauerkraut, which I don't. I just can't imagine what that's matching with. But I'll go back to this idea of the health of the Commander in Chief. There have been big questions about cognitive health. People have asked about the bruising on Donald Trump's hand, hands, the swollen ankles, all that kind of thing. But we don't always know what motivates these questions. Rick, do Americans actually care about the health of the President?
- [55:44]
Rick Davis
Oh, sure they do, Joe. I mean, Americans want a vital president. They want a president who they feel like wakes up every morning ready to go to work. And obviously any health effects that they might have would distract them from their duties and, and role as Commander in Chief and President, United States. So, yeah, I mean, Americans, look, they want, they want their president to be vital. They want the president to shoulder the weight of the responsibilities they've got. And obviously having health problems makes that more difficult. But it's a little odd that this administration sort of allows these cabinet members, as Jeannie was saying, to go on these podcasts to do these interviews and expel all this word vomit. It's almost the only way you could describe it. It's not public policy. And especially RFK Jr. Who seems obsessed with the President's diet, which I get. I mean, he doesn't eat any of this stuff, but the next time I go to a restaurant and bring something with me, it's going to be a Bordeaux, not sauerkraut at all.
- [56:54]
Joe
Right, well done, byob. Just check the corkage fee. Jeannie, I don't know where you are on fermented vegetables, but how loud could this conversation about the President's health get? And what kind of marks will Donald Trump's administration get when it comes to Maha? We're making America healthy again. Who's this? Who's this resonating with?
- [57:17]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
Well, Joe, I want to say I'm very happy that our health secretary is bringing sauerkraut and not dead beer. Was it A bear carcass that he killed in New York and dumped in Central park of his own admissions.
- [57:31]
Joe
Very lean.
- [57:33]
Jeannie Shan Zaino
I've never had it, but there you go. They're not going to get very high marks because what are we hearing out? The Senate is leaving town today without any deal on the health care subsidies. Prices have skyrocketed for millions and millions of Americans if they can get health care. So, yeah, make America healthy again, but you've got to make it affordable. And that means addressing things like big Pharma, not telling people that they are do one piece of broccoli, one piece of chicken and one tortilla.
- [58:05]
Joe
CeCe says that's the steak on the pyramid. I got this all wrong. That's a bear steak at the top of the. Look at the rib eye on that bear. Idle boy. And I guess that's true. Bear meat, I suppose, would be. Would be a lot more affordable than beef. This is the weirdest conversation we've probably ever had with our friends Rick and Jeannie. Does the Maha movement, Maha moms, as they call them, Rick, actually amount to votes?
- [58:33]
Rick Davis
Well, first of all, the first thought I had was it's 2 o' clock in the morning in Tokyo and I'm talking about hamburgers. To be honest with you, it's a little hard to conceal. But look, the Maha movement is actually a legitimate political movement. And the reality is Americans do have a horrible diet. You know, we eat too much processed food. It's fun to make light of it, but it is a health issue. And frankly, this is one of the things that RFK was able to connect with voters on. It made him a valuable cabinet pick.
- [59:10]
Joe
What are you doing up at three in the morning? Rick Davis. My God, this is the man just never stops working. Live in Tokyo. Amazing. It's almost breakfast time. Cue the bear meat. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington D.C. at noontime eastern@bloomberg.com Wasabi is purpose built to free your business from skyrocketing storage costs and fees from the big guys. Wasabi is the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams around the world. Check out Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air, and the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cyber criminals. Wasabi driving innovation in data storage for up to 80% less than market competition. Try for free@wasabi.com Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage, proud partner of iHeart Podcast Network. The new year brings new health goals and wealth goals. Protecting your identity is an important step. Your info is in endless places that could expose you to identity theft leading to lost funds. LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Resolve to make identity, health and wealth part of your New Year's goals with LifeLock, save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock. Com. IHeart terms apply.