White House Targets Food Costs

Summary

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Balance of Power — "White House Targets Food Costs"

Podcast: Balance of Power
Host: Bloomberg (Joe Mathieu & Tyler Kendall)
Date: November 14, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the White House’s recent push to address high food costs via targeted tariff relief and exemption policies, against a backdrop of ongoing economic and political tensions in Washington. Hosts Joe Mathieu and Tyler Kendall break down new tariff deals, inflation pressures at the grocery store, and the political calculus driving these moves. The conversation then shifts to an array of Capitol Hill topics, such as the renewed push to release the Epstein files, bipartisan tensions after the government shutdown, the prospects for healthcare reform, and a controversial Senate provision enabling senators to sue the government. The hosts and a lineup of expert guests provide inside perspectives on policy impacts, political strategies, and the mood in Congress.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. White House Tariff Moves to Lower Food Costs

Starts at 00:55

• Big Day for Tariffs: The US announces a major deal with Switzerland to drop tariffs from 39% to 15%, plus framework agreements with Argentina, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Ecuador (00:55).
• Aim: Ease rising food costs, which are a growing electoral issue.
• Key Exemptions: Carve outs for products not easily made in the US, like beef, cocoa, and bananas.
• Political Flexibility: Recent actions represent a shift from the administration’s earlier hardline tariff stance, now adapting under voter pressure (01:33).

“Affordability is coming up time and time again with American voters.”
— Tyler Kendall (00:55)

• The policy’s origin tracks back to an executive order from former President Trump, asking Commerce and USTR to find exemption opportunities (02:07).

2. Inflation: Tariffs, Optics & Impact

Starts at 03:07

• Expert Insight: Stuart Paul (Bloomberg Economics) discusses how 25% of tariff costs are getting passed to consumers, per recent CPI data. But the real economic effect of new import deals is limited due to the small import volumes from countries like Argentina (05:22).

“We can’t say that this is all Biden inflation as Peter Navarro suggested.”
— Stuart Paul (03:53)

• Impact Timelines: While exemptions should quickly affect hard-to-source goods, aggregate impact is muted due to existing import patterns (coffee: import 20x more from Brazil than Argentina) (05:22).
• Politics vs. Policy: Stuart highlights that these carve-outs are more about optics and addressing voters’ pocketbook concerns, especially moving toward the 2026 midterms (06:56).

“This is more a matter of politics and recognizing that addressing things like cost of living and affordability is a winning political issue.”
— Stuart Paul (05:52)

3. Congress and the Epstein Files

Starts at 07:43

• New Developments: Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva of Arizona becomes the 218th signature on a petition to force a vote to release the Epstein files, emphasizing the importance of transparency regardless of political fallout (08:28).

“No one should want the label of protecting pedophiles.”
— Rep. Adelita Grijalva (08:28)

• Bipartisan Tensions: Former Rep. Barbara Comstock (VA) criticizes Republicans for inaction and highlights the political risks of not supporting release of the files, especially given their prior anti-human trafficking work. She warns of electoral consequences (“you do not want to have ads run against you being a pedophile protector”) (11:41).

4. Health Care Debate After Shutdown

Starts at 13:01

• Shutdown Fallout: Bipartisan urgency expressed to hammer out healthcare reforms before the next shutdown deadline (Jan 30).
• Political Stakes: Rising premiums are a flashpoint, especially as politicians don’t want to get “politically slaughtered next year” (13:29).

“If we don’t pass a solution, we are going to get politically slaughtered next year.”
— Barbara Comstock (14:18)

• Democratic Perspective: Rep. Grijalva argues the GOP has critiqued the ACA for 15 years “but don’t actually come to the table with any real solutions,” while Kristen Hahn (Democratic strategist) reinforces that Democrats win on healthcare but are internally divided (18:03, 19:21).

“Universal health care, I think should be the base of what the American people deserve.”
— Rep. Adelita Grijalva (18:03)

5. Democratic Infighting & The Schumer Question

Starts at 20:04

• Leadership Critiques: Some Democrats urge Chuck Schumer’s resignation due to perceived mismanagement and missed post-election opportunities.
• Strategic Calculus: The party is urged to avoid internal finger-pointing and focus on contrasts with a unified Republican Party (20:34).

“There’s always room for a changing of the guard and new leadership and new blood.”
— Kristen Hahn (24:31)

• Looking Ahead: State of the Union will reflect ongoing partisan and internal tensions, with calls for new Democratic leadership and more aggressive response to the administration’s messaging (25:07).

6. Controversial Senate Provision: Lawsuits Against the Government

Starts at 29:15

• Provision Details: Hidden in the government funding bill was a clause enabling eight senators (impacted by DoJ data collection during Jan 6th investigations) to sue the government for $500k+.
• Panel Reaction: Outrage on both sides—seen as “self-dealing” and reinforcing a two-tiered justice system not available to ordinary Americans.

“They have given these eight senators a right that is denied to all of the rest of us.”
— Jeannie Shanz Zaino (33:22)

• Likely Reversal: The House is expected to overwhelmingly vote to eliminate the provision, putting pressure on the Senate to follow suit (35:10).
• Larger Implications: Underscores dysfunction and lack of transparency in congressional process, with urgent calls for equal treatment and oversight processes, not special carveouts (36:32).

7. Wall Street & Macroeconomic Perspective

Starts at 14:45

• Brief update: Market volatility with a sharp rally following early losses; focus on Federal Reserve statements and anticipation of next policy moves.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Affordability is coming up time and time again with American voters.”
  — Tyler Kendall (00:55)

• “It does look like consumers are feeling some of the effects of tariffs...but we can’t say that this is all Biden inflation.”
  — Stuart Paul (03:53)

• “This is more a matter of politics and recognizing that addressing things like cost of living and affordability is a winning political issue.”
  — Stuart Paul (05:52)

• “No one should want the label of protecting pedophiles.”
  — Adelita Grijalva (08:28)

• “If we don’t pass a solution, we are going to get politically slaughtered next year.”
  — Barbara Comstock (14:18)

• “Universal health care, I think should be the base of what the American people deserve.”
  — Adelita Grijalva (18:03)

• “There’s always room for a changing of the guard and new leadership and new blood.”
  — Kristen Hahn (24:31)

• “They have given these eight senators a right that is denied to all of the rest of us.”
  — Jeannie Shanz Zaino (33:22)

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Episode Structure & Flow

1. Tariffs, Food Prices & Voter Sentiment (00:55–07:43)
   Hosts and guests explore the administration’s evolving tariff strategy, intended to lower food costs, and its limited direct impact.

2. Politics of Inflation & Consumer Pain (03:07–07:43)
   Stuart Paul (Bloomberg Economics) clarifies the political optics, limited policy impact, and ongoing inflation pain.

3. Epstein Files & Congressional Math (07:43–13:01)
   New developments on the push to release Epstein-related documents, with bipartisan implications and narrative framing.

4. Healthcare, Shutdown Fallout & Democratic Messaging (13:01–26:33)
   The looming healthcare debate, shutdown aftereffects, leadership challenges within the Democratic party.

5. Senate Provision Allowing Lawsuits Against Government (29:15–41:59)
   In-depth discussion by Rick Davis and Jeannie Shanz Zaino on the controversial clause, its legislative implications, and public backlash.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• The White House’s latest food cost strategies are highly political, designed to demonstrate action on inflation rather than fundamentally alter price dynamics.
• Tariff carve-outs are framed as responsive governance, but have marginal effect on aggregate food prices; real relief requires larger-scale deals with major trade partners.
• The reopening of government immediately reignited fights over healthcare, transparency (Epstein files), and internal party direction — signaling more turbulence ahead.
• A hidden Senate provision granting select senators special legal privileges faces near-universal condemnation, highlighting transparency issues and the dangers of legislative shortcuts.
• Both parties are under substantial pressure from voters on affordability, healthcare, and government trust — issues likely to dominate heading into the 2026 midterms.

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For next week: Listeners can expect further battles around healthcare reform, possible votes to roll back controversial Senate statutes, and continued realignment of congressional strategies as lawmakers react to voter anxiety over prices and government dysfunction.

Transcript

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[Tyler Kendall]

Tyler Kendall here in Washington alongside Joe Matthew. And today is a big tariff day, as you just heard. Amy outline the USTR announcing that there's to be a deal with Switzerland. This is a big deal because it is going to lower tariffs from 39% to 15%. We also saw the administration ink some framework agreements earlier today with Argentina, Guatemala, El Salvador and Ecuador. And then we are expecting these other carve outs, Joe, when it comes to key products that you can't make so easily here in the US all part of the administration's bid to help lower prices. As we know, affordability is coming up time and time again with American voters.

[Joe Matthew]

Certainly at the grocery store President has talked about about that food prices, specifically beef. That's why we're apparently importing Argentinian beef. But they're going to be carve outs on everything from beef, cocoa, bananas, a lot of the stuff that you simply can't grow here. And I wonder if that extends at some point here, Tyler, to other products. What about cerveza? What about you can't make Mexican beer in the United States? There are different things that could pop up and they've really tried to seize on the idea of flexibility. Greer talked about that this morning, that this was always part of the plan, that when pressure points arrived, the administration would take action. And we seem to be doing that now.

[Tyler Kendall]

Right. And this actually stems from an executive order that we saw President Trump sign a few months ago calling for the USTR and the Commerce Department to look into those areas where there could be these exemptions. But it's been really interesting to track all of the tariff policies from the beginning of the administration because of course, when these were all originally rolled out, we were told time and time again from officials that we weren't going to see carve outs. But of course, this is a living, breathing policy as we know it. And it has shifted time and time again. And this is just the latest contour.

[Joe Matthew]

It's Taco Friday once again. Tyler, we talked about this with Peter Navarro. As a matter of fact, I don't know if that's something we can spin back because it's interesting, Tyler, when we talk about tariffs, that's not the same conversation that the administration is having with the impact on prices. They say that's Joe Biden.

[Tyler Kendall]

No, exactly. Actually, I think we do have that tape. We want to bring you a little bit of our conversation with Peter Navarro, asking him about the recent poll, the recent consumer sentiment numbers that inflation is weighing on the American consumer.

[Joe Matthew]

President Trump viscerally understands the pain many Americans are going through because of the inflation issue. And a lot of that pain is centered on our MAGA base. And we understand that what we have to do as an administration is first of all be crystal clear about the sources of the inflation. The sources of the inflation are up for debate still. And that's why we turn to Stuart Paul for his insights. US Economist at Bloomberg Economics with us from world headquarters in New York. We've identified the pain here, Stuart. It doesn't seem everybody agrees on why.

[Stuart Paul]

It doesn't seem like everybody agrees on why. But when we do our decomposition of some of the drivers of inflation, we find that about 25% of the cost of tariffs are being passed through to consumer prices as per the September CPI report. We're still waiting on October, of course, but with the latest data that we have, it does look like consumer prices are feelings. Consumers are feeling some of the effects of tariffs and the week. And so we can't say that this is all Biden inflation as Peter Navarro suggested. I also do want to congratulate the two of you on an absolutely fabulous interview with Peter Navarro on the late edition of Balance of Power just last night when he suggested that Chairman Powell should commit seppuku, the Japanese honor suicide, for failing to address inflation. Oh my goodness. And yes, all of our viewers and listeners around the world should go back and watch yesterday's late edition of Balance of Power.

[Joe Matthew]

I didn't pursue the Japan reference in that conversation. No, maybe we should have.

[Tyler Kendall]

Yeah, well, we thank you for that, Stuart. And actually I get to give you a shout out now because I always ask Stuart Paul questions off the air and now I get to ask him questions on the air. But if we stick with tariffs, I'm wondering, Stuart, if you can give us any sort of idea on how quickly these tariff exemptions could actually work their way through the economy. When you hear the administration saying that they're going to issue these carve outs, what sort of impact will Americans actually feel? How long will it take for those prices to come down?

[Stuart Paul]

Well, for certain imports that are very difficult for us to produce domestically, the items that are difficult for us to produce domestically, the effect should be relatively quick. It should be relatively easy for Argentina, for example, to direct some additional exports, goods that they're producing to the United States. But when we look at the actual aggregates, the volumes that are coming from places like Argentina, El Salvador, Ecuador, Guatemala, it really doesn't matter very much. For example, about one and a half percent of our beef imports come from Argentina. We get about five times that much from Brazil. We, we import about 20 times as much coffee from Brazil as we do from Argentina. So when we think about negotiating new trade deals, particularly with Latin America, and if the administration is trying to bring down the cost of everyday goods and services goods and really agriculture goods in particular, the ball game is really negotiating a deal with Brazil, Argentina, Guatemala, El Salvador, Ecuador. It's not going to have much of a material impact. This is more a matter of politics and recognizing that addressing things like cost of living and affordability is a winning political issue, as we saw in the New York mayoral election.

[Joe Matthew]

Well, then I'm really confused here, Stuart. If it doesn't pull prices lower, because it's almost a tacit endorsement of the idea that tariffs are inflationary by, by acknowledging this and announcing the exception, if it doesn't pull prices lower, what's the point?

[Stuart Paul]

It's at least good optics. And I think that we are finally at the point where the administration is realizing that one of the first issues that one of the primary issues that the administration was elected on was addressing inflation. With disinflation stalling out and headline CPI inflation remaining around 3%, they're going to need to get to a more tactical approach to addressing the inflation problem and really responding to the issues that they were elected to address. And so at this point, yes, there is going to need to be a little bit of a walk back on some of the promises around tariffs. And it's not the worst thing in the world to announce trade deals as we head into 2026 and the midterm elections.

[Tyler Kendall]

All right, Stuart. Paul, Bloomberg Economics US Economist, thank you so much as always for joining us. And we want to stick on a domestic policy politics, but shift over from the White House to Capitol Hill. Now, yesterday, on balance of power, Joe and I spoke with the Newly sworn in, Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva of Arizona. It had taken her at that point weeks to get sworn into office while the US Government was shut down. But one of the first things that she did when she was sworn in was she became the 218th signature on a discharge petition that could force a vote to release the Epstein files from the Department of Justice. We asked her about her signature on that petition and the timeline we could be looking at yesterday. On balance of power, I hope that.

[Adelita Grijalva]

It passes the House without any issue and that the pressure then goes to senators because regardless of who is implicated, no one should want the label of protecting pedophiles. And, you know, I talked to some survivors today and I said, you know, one of the things that I would do is go and target your senators, talk to them about why it's important for them to show unity in this, and then go and call some of their constituents and make sure that there's a connection there.

[Tyler Kendall]

Adelita Grijalva, the new congresswoman from Arizona, joining us yesterday. On balance of power, we want to extend the conversation and bring in Barbara Comstock, former Republican congresswoman from Virginia. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us here. I'm just wondering what you make about what has been Republican strategy so far when it comes to the Epstein files. President Trump did campaign on releasing them, but at this point, that doesn't seem to be the White House's position. Now, how should have Republicans been playing this?

[Barbara Comstock]

Well, it's been an absolute disaster for Republicans. I mean, to shut down the House of Representatives for all these weeks, the longest government shutdown. But the House being out of session all this time has been a disaster for Republicans. So when they open up, they will have bipartisan support. You know, Congressman Massie, a Republican, along with Ro Khanna, has led that discharge petition. So they now have the votes. And I do imagine there will be quite a few Republicans who will join on that. I know Congressman Don Bacon, a Republican, and others have already said that they will vote for that. And given that Republicans, including when I was in Congress, I worked on human trafficking legislation and passed bills, and there are a lot of Republicans who did those. Many Republicans who supported legislation like that will look very hypocritical if they don't support this measure now to release the Epstein files when so many of them already did support that. And given that the Epstein estate has these files and certainly it seems that they are willing to put more and more of those files out. So it will be foolish if the congressman, after you saw what happened in Virginia and New Jersey and in all of these special elections. If after Republicans have been out there on the record all the way up to Donald Trump and J.D. vance themselves have said, hey, why don't we release these files? What are they hiding? And we've already seen a lot of the information in those files. They need to get quickly down there to the floor and say they are for releasing these files.

[Joe Matthew]

Well, we understand we could see Congresswoman, 40 to 50 Republicans vote in the House, but this is at the moment at least going nowhere in the Senate. Even if this does pass the House, what does John Thune do?

[Barbara Comstock]

Well, if you are one of the third of those Republicans who are going to be up for election again, many of those who have harped on this issue for years, you do not want to have ads run against you being a pedophile protector. That is not going to be a story to have Jeffrey Epstein, you know, pictures in those ads against you. And you do not want to have these victims who are very strong advocates for themselves, showing up in ads saying, here's what he said before the election, that they should be released now. Here's what they're saying after. And this is something that the MAGA base themselves are not, they are not sympathetic on keeping these files under wraps. You know, you're seeing MAGA flags in neighborhoods coming down because they want these files released. You have White House battles between, you know, between and among people like, you know, Pam Bondi and Dan Bongino and the FBI director, Cash Patel, who himself was on the air saying, you know, why don't they put these files out there? So there's really no recourse to not letting these files, you know, become public.

[Tyler Kendall]

So this is a debate that has come up now that the government is reopened. Something up that is coming up because the government's reopened is the policy fight ahead when it comes to health care. And both sides of the aisle have said that they are willing to negotiate and that something needs to be done. When it comes to health care from your time on the Hill, do you think it's viable that we could see a deal by January 30, which is that next looming deadline that we could get a potentially another government shutdown?

[Barbara Comstock]

I certainly hope not. I mean, people have suffered, I mean, during this shutdown. That's why you should move on from things like the Epstein files because they need to be focusing on good policy. And you've had a bipartisan coalition come together to say they do want to find a solution. Because you have people right now, people who are cancer victims, people with Alzheimer's, people, you know, who are farmers who are on these exchanges. You know, people who are pregnant saying, hey, I'm sick or seven months pregnant. I'm not due until next year. But my, you know, premiums are going from $500 a month to two or $3,000 a month. You know, Congressman Bacon, again, you know, a Republican, Congressman Jeff Van Drew, a Republican, has said we are crazy if we don't come up with a solution for this. These frontline Republicans who are now, they've looked at the results in Virginia and New Jersey and they realize if they don't pass some kind of solution, as Jeffrey Andrew said, it's the moral right thing to do, but it's the politically right thing to do. If we don't pass a solution, we are going to get politically slaughtered next year. And they are right.

[Joe Matthew]

Well, great to have you back. Barbara Comstock, former Republican congresswoman from Virginia. It's good to see you. Thanks for being part of our conversation today. As always on Bloomberg TV and Radio, I'm Joe Matthew alongside Tyler Kendall in Washington with our eyes on Wall Street. Tyler, we've seen the markets pull well off their lows of the session, having had another dramatically lower start to trading following steep losses yesterday that saw the S&P 500 down over one and a half percent, the Nasdaq down even more than that. The S and P has turned positive. It's up a quarter of a percent. The Nasdaq has turned positive as well, up a half percent. The Dow has trimmed losses significantly. There does seem to be a bout of bottom fishing here and buying the dip once again on Wall Street.

[Tyler Kendall]

Tyler Right, exactly. We also have our eyes on those Fed speakers appearing to perhaps urge caution when it comes to bets on further policy easing ahead of the next fomc, which we'll keep our eyes on.

[Joe Matthew]

We sure will. Stay with us on balance of power. We'll have much more coming up after this.

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[Joe Matthew]

Really interesting to hear from the White House. As we were just talking about affordability, just kicked out a news release on this headline. We're making big progress on prices and we'll keep working to make sure everyone benefits. President Donald J. Trump, it says, inherited an economic mess when he took office. Years of mismanagement under Biden, his incompetent admin Democrats in Congress spent years insisting inflation was transitory while doling out trillions in new spending and dramatically upscaling government brought the country to the brink of economic ruin. It goes on to, through a series of bullets, talk about the efforts the administration is taking to lower prices. And that may well come in the form as well not listed here. But in terms of tariff exceptions, coffee, cocoa, bananas, your taco on this free Taco Friday, Democrats have their own conversation, their own family conversation that they're going to be having over the course of this weekend. After coming back to Washington to reopen the government, a lot of Democrats were sore with Chuck Schumer, were sore with those who crossed the aisle in the Senate to break the logjam, sore about the message they thought might have been stepped on coming out of the elections. How about a new perspective from the newest member of Congress, Adelita Grijalva. The Democratic congresswoman From Arizona waited 50 days to be sworn in. Now that we're back open, we spoke with her in her first 24 hours on the job and she's got her eyes specifically on health care reform.

[Adelita Grijalva]

Listen, Republicans have had critical things to say about the Affordable Care act since its inception in 2010. They have had 15 years to work on a better plan. All they do is throw stones at it, but don't actually come to the table with any real solutions. So I don't think it's the Democrats responsibility to come up with a solution that they don't see a problem with. If we want to work to improve the aca, I'm all for that. Universal health care, I think should be the base of what the American people deserve.

[Joe Matthew]

Kristin Hahn is not a rock thrower, but she's had a few thrown at her and remembers the quite distinctly the debate that was had in 2008 and 2009 over Obamacare. You fast forward 15 years and it sure lately doesn't sound like anything has changed. We talk about this and what is the message, the unifying message out of the Democratic Party right now at a difficult time? With Kristen Hahn, partner at ROC Solutions, Democratic strategist, longtime fixture with the Blue Dog Democrats on Capitol Hill. Happy Friday, Kristen. It's the end of the week. I'm wondering your thoughts here. I don't know how old Adelita Grijalva was. I'd have to check when Obamacare first passed. But you could have played that. You could have played that in 2009, right?

[Kristen Hahn]

You could have, you know, and we went through it in 2009, and a lot of people lost their seats over it, but a lot of good things were accomplished. So you could have played that in 2009. And she speaks the truth. I mean, it is very difficult to do healthcare reform reform on either side of the aisle. And what we've seen is that the Republicans want to continue to tear down Obamacare, the aca, without any real ideas about how to, you know, to, to reform it. So it's been a long time. She actually speaks the truth here. Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting what's going on on Capitol Hill right now with, with the finger pointing among the Democratic Party on health care when we really should be pointing the fingers at the Republicans.

[Joe Matthew]

Well, so how do Democrats reconcile some of the, the, the inside interparty anger here with some calling for Chuck Schumer to resign? You've got progressives who are very upset with the moderates in the Senate who crossed over to vote for this because they didn't feel like they got anything for it. Kristen. And that a message coming out of the elections a couple of Tuesdays ago may have been squandered by what took place here in Washington. Is there a unifying message for Democrats right now?

[Kristen Hahn]

I mean, I think so. You know, at the end of the day, the Republicans are in charge of the House, the Senate, and they control the White House. So, you know, pointing fingers at each other in the Democratic Party is not constructive. You are up against a party, and I consider myself very middle of the road. But the fact of the matter is you're up against a party in the Republican Party that is unified against providing these health care benefits for everyday Americans. And there's only so much you can do. And at the end of the day, it's always difficult when you're holding the federal government hostage. It's difficult when the future, sorry, the Freedom Caucus would do this. At the end of the day, the government will reopen. There will be something that will happen and people were hurting when the government was closed.

[Joe Matthew]

Closed.

[Kristen Hahn]

So I think we need to look forward. I think that a lot of these Republicans in these tougher, tougher seats are going to potentially pay for it in the midterms next year.

[Joe Matthew]

Wow. Interesting. You know who kind of crystallizes this is Seth Moulton, the Democrat from Massachusetts running for Senate now to replace Ed Markey, or so he hopes. Sat down for an interview with Politico to have a conversation on the conversation. This is exactly what we're talking about here, Krista. Listen to Seth Moulton. It means this.

[Rick Davis]

Shuba just gave it.

[Joe Matthew]

He just quit right when we actually.

[Rick Davis]

Look like we might be able to win.

[Joe Matthew]

And it's tough right now to win in Washington when Republicans control the White House, the House and the Senate. There's two problems here. One, Schumer has proven to all of us that he can't keep the team together. But two, Schumer has also proven to Trump that his strong arm tactics work. That's a pretty tough combination for Democrats if that's true, Kristen. And you wonder, would it have been different with another leader? We had the longest shutdown in American history and somebody like Jeanne Shaheen got tired of waiting around. Would a different leader have prevented the jailbreak?

[Kristen Hahn]

This isn't a defense of Schumer, but I'm not sure that they would have. You have United States senators in the Democratic Party who have a mind of their own and they got together, they had discussions and they moved forward. So I'm not sure another leader would have, would have made a difference here. There are certainly a ton of capable leaders that could take over for Chuck Schumer, you know, from all over the country. But I'm not sure that would have made a difference. Certainly there are criticisms of any leader, you know, of both parties and they have to go through that. But at the end of the day, the government had to reopen. How and when that happened, that was up to those senators and they made their decisions.

[Joe Matthew]

I'm not sure. It sounds like you agree they'd made the right decision. But either way, we're open. When lawmakers get back, there's going to be, I guess, a debate over extending health care reforms. There's no promise vote in the House though, Kristen. And a lot of people like me are already asking if we're going to shut down in January. This doesn't sound like it's getting real better, does it?

[Kristen Hahn]

It's not getting any better. And I think that if there is not a vote and I, you know, I agree with all the members that just have no faith in the Republican leadership in the House to hold, you know, to any type of word that they'll bring something to the floor. So I think they have. And you're going to have a lot of members who are really upset about this. So, no, I think that we're in for a long haul between now and all the way through 2026 having these major fights over health care because this is where Democrats win, Democrats win on health care. As you get closer to the elections, people want to see the members fighting. So I think there's a potential. We go through all of this again.

[Joe Matthew]

Boy, it's sounding like it. I don't know how we get out of it at that point, too, because they've, they've funded SNAP benefits for the year. You won't have to worry about that. I guess the airports won't get any better. But when it comes to Schumer, Kristen, is this it? Does he even run for reelection?

[Kristen Hahn]

I don't know. I mean, I think that there's always room for a changing of the guard and new leadership and new blood. You've seen that in the House. And, you know, Nancy Pelosi was just such a strong leader for so many years and provided guidance and leadership to other members of the party like Hakeem Jeffries, who leads the House Democrats now. So, you know, that is yet to be seen. Schumer seems to have the support of his caucus, but I think that there is room for a lot of talent in the Democratic Party and some new blood. You know, particularly in the Senate.

[Joe Matthew]

You know, we're going to come through the holidays in just about five minutes time, right? And then all of a sudden we're going to, we're going to hear an invitation by the speaker to the president to come deliver the State of the Union address. That's going to be a big moment. I suspect it's been late the last couple of years. Maybe it'll fall in February. We'll see about this. But you wonder what the state of affairs will be or if the government, I guess, will be open when that takes place. And exactly, you know, one year after the president's address to Congress, what the feel in the room is going to be like and how belligerent Democrats will be. What's the State of the Union going to be like next year?

[Kristen Hahn]

I think, unfortunately, I'm not sure I see anything different. And you know, we talk about the Democrats being belligerent, but the president uses that stage and we've all been through how many lies he's told, how many, you know, non truths that he conveys from that podium. So, you know, it's a difficult decision that Democrats have to make, how to respond to this, how to fight back, when to fight back. But he certainly will use that stage, you know, to spin a lot of mistruths, which is really unfortunate because the decorum in the House that usually surrounds that event is, has been lost over the last couple of years. So that's it's really unfortunate. But I don't think, I don't think it's going to change.

[Joe Matthew]

It's live at the Improv now. Who does the official response for the Democrats if not Abigail Spanberger?

[Kristen Hahn]

I think, you know, I would love to see Mikey, Sheryl, Abigail Spamberger up there. I think they just embody what it means to be a Democrat and win and listen, listen to your constituents and represent your state and district in the way that people want to see it represented. So those would be my top two picks for sure.

[Stuart Paul]

Okay.

[Joe Matthew]

You didn't say Zoran Mamdani, I guess.

[Kristen Hahn]

No, I did not. No.

[Joe Matthew]

Good to see you, Kristen, as always. Kristen Hahn is a partner at Rock Solutions, Democratic strategist and a friend of the program here. Interesting to take a minute here on a Friday just to get a sense of where the party is and what the vibes are going to be next week, because it doesn't sound like it's going to be any better than it was this week. But hey, the government's open and this might be the worst of it. We may have been through the worst already when it comes to the air traffic capacity cuts, the delays and cancellations around the country, or so we like to think. One item that was in the bill that just passed to reopen the government is getting a lot of scrutiny. All of a sudden. Some members of the House said they didn't even know it was in there. That's a provision that allows senators to sue the Department of Justice to the tune of a half million dollars for scraping their telephone numbers and telephone records as part of the January 6th investigation. It looks like we have at least one taker. There's going to be a vote next week in the House to cancel this idea, but it may not be going anywhere. We'll talk about this with our panel, Rick Davis and Jeannie Shan Zaino. Should lawmakers be able to sue the government? We'll tackle that next on balance of power. Stay with us on balance of power. We'll have much more coming up after this Managing multiple accounts and logins for your marketing needs is like managing multiple announcers for one ad.

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[Announcer]

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[Joe Matthew]

You know, lawmakers on Capitol Hill get to determine their own pay, which is interesting knowing that that they have not done so in about 15 years, given themselves a raise. I think 2009 was the last time that members of Congress actually voted to to give themselves a raise, even with the cost of inflation, prices, the whole thing rising as we discuss on a fairly regular basis. And the reason why is because they think it'll just look bad. It's a toxic headline. Members of Congress with approval ratings in the single digits are paying themselves more. Maybe from that same file is a new procedure, new program, if I can call it that, a provision in the Senate that was inside the continuing resolution that just passed that allows senators to sue the government for a lot of money, $500,000 or more if they discover the government scooped up their electronic data, seized their records without notification, and that happened to a handful of senators during Jack Smith's January 6th probe. It's actually a pretty good number. Eight of them, Josh Hawley, Marshall Blackburn, there you see him all on YouTube. Dan Sullivan, Ron Johnson, Bill Haggerty, and yes, Lindsey Graham, who is the only one of this group who has decided to take advantage of the new provision and it seems sue the Department of Justice. Josh Harley didn't want anything to do with it, he said. I think the Senate provision a bad idea. There needs to be accountability for Joe Biden's doj, but the right way to do that is through public hearings, tough oversight, including the complicity of telecom companies and prosecution where warranted. Wonder what the panel thinks about this because I'm not sure congressional approval ratings could go any lower. Rick Davis and Jeannie Shan Zaino are here on the Friday Edition Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick is our Republican strategist partner, Stone Court Capital spent a lot of years working in the Senate. And Jeanne is democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center I should note, by the way, and you guys know this, there's a standalone bill in the House because this is a Senate matter and Republicans in the House hate this idea. They're going to try to knock it down next week in a floor vote. But Rick, that would, I'm assuming it wouldn't pass the Senate. What is John Thune thinking of putting this into a continuing resolution?

[Rick Davis]

Yeah, this is pretty extraordinary, you know, because the institution itself, the Senate has lots of rights. They write the law. That's what people depend upon them as they create these laws. And individual senators really don't have any success suing the federal government. They've tried tried it before because they tend to lack standing. I mean, what was the harm to the individual senator? That kind of thing. So in this case, they went to John Thune and said, hey look, put a little law in this bill that gives us actually standing to sue the federal government as if the entire Congress was affected by it. And that's pretty outrageous. That's self dealing with. But when it gets to the House of Representatives, they don't even know it's in there until almost after the fact. I mean this is why you need to have these bills read before you vote on them. And by then it was too late. We need to open up the government. And Speaker Johnson has an absolute right to throw a fit over this because the Senate jammed him. They didn't tell it was coming. And it is totally an effort by the part of eight senators to, to gouge the federal government for money. It's, it's outrageous. And as Lindsey Graham said, forget this half a million dollars that they're talking about, I'm going big money. He was a trial lawyer before he got elected to the Senate. He knows how to do this himself.

[Joe Matthew]

Wow, big money, Jeannie. It's like we're on the Wheel of Fortune in this case. Nobody was watching the game show like Rick is saying. Tom Cole in a hearing just the other night said wait a second, second. How the heck did this get in here? Are we just moving too fast or did John Thune pull a fast one?

[Ad]

I think both. I think three. What was it? 390 plus pages of a bill that they jammed through and had to get through quickly. And you know, they both Democrats and Republicans in the House crying foul. Of course they still sent the bill to the president under pressure and now they're saying they're going to come back. But let's just take a step back. What is so not just morally and politically corrupt but unjust about this entire endeavor is that they have given these eight senators a right that is denied to all of the rest of us. The rest of us cannot, if the FBI or the DOJ are involved in legal, you know, examining of our phone records, whatever else, cannot sue. And in fact, it wasn't that long ago that the Bivens act was up. That didn't even make it through committee. And that act would have allowed people to sue the federal government and federal officials if their constitutional rights were violated. So we now have a Senate that is not even given the right to all Republican senators or all Democratic senators. Only the eight who were involved in some way or somehow on the phone with Donald Trump during the insurrection. And, you know, you look at the stories on the other side, people who have said that their rights were violated by ice, but have been denied the right to sue. That's not how we do things in the United States or in a democracy. Whether you are a big powerful senator, a Republican or Democrat, or just a little old person like the rest of us, we should all be able to sue. And so this has absolutely got to be pulled back, and it is shameful that it got through in the way it did.

[Joe Matthew]

Well, the House bill to kill this provision is expected to pass overwhelmingly whether it's next week or not. It looks like that's the schedule here, Rick, what does John Thune do then? Do you just stay quiet or bring it to the floor?

[Rick Davis]

Oh, I think he's going to have to take a vote on it, and he'll tell the bill, have to tell the caucus to vote their conscience. I mean, you can't have instructions from leadership on this one because, you know, he got. Got his hand caught in a cookie jar. I mean, that's what this is all about. He was hoping it would sail through, nobody would notice, nobody would complain and make eight of his members happy. And that's not what happened. And now everybody's talking about it, you know, and Republicans and Democrats alike can be outraged by this because it really does set up a, you know, totally different level of status within the legal system when you. You carve out and use an institution like Congress to give yourself a status that no other American is afforded by a special law that allows you to make money off of suing the federal government. I mean, I'm sorry, there's so much wrong with that that it's not even a close call. So I don't think Thune wants, in the middle of midterms with a third of his Senate up to have to defend this in. He'll cave quick and he should because Johnson's right on this.

[Joe Matthew]

Wow. Wow. This panel is unified on this issue. Jeannie, what do you think about what Josh Hawley said? The right way to do this is he says is through public hearings, tough oversight, including the complicity of telecom companies. To what extent is that really what this story is all about?

[Ad]

Yeah, I mean, absolutely, Congress has the right to engage in oversight if there is complicity on the part of the telecom companies. Absolutely. The problem here is that for a party that ran on and has consistently talked about a two tier system of justice, that is exactly what they have created. And remember, when they engage in oversight, they don't then line their own personal and family coffers to the tune of $1 million per senator. Right. So there's a vast difference between passing an amendment in this law that allows them to sue us and take $1 million from us because they have been wrong, deny us the right to do that and engage in proper oversight. So absolutely, proper oversight. But this thing has got to go. And I am not sure even how this thing got through. And talk about tone death in this environment when to your point, Joe, the numbers for Congress can't get any lower. So maybe this putting their hands up and saying we give up, we're as low as we can go, we're just going to take, take a million more. I mean it's absolutely outrageous from almost every perspective.

[Joe Matthew]

Should Congress be focused on telecom companies here in being complicit with the DoJ? Rick, the telecom companies have any choice.

[Rick Davis]

Yeah, I don't think the telecom company is a serious issue. Look, these, these arrangements with the telecom companies and the federal government were made decades ago. They are protecting the US from terrorists and people who want to inflict harm on, on us by being able to use these things like FISA warrants to identify them and gather intelligence. Last thing we want to do is cripple our intelligence community because of a reaction like this. I mean, you could go into hearings to talk about the bad judgment that was elicited because why in the world would you be collecting data on United States Senators for.

[Tyler Kendall]

Why?

[Rick Davis]

Especially without a notification process. But I think absolutely people should look into, you know, the conduct of decision makers around this. But the infrastructure is part of our national security apparatus and I don't think we want to start pointing fingers at private companies who are supportive of the US national security.

[Joe Matthew]

That's why I bring it up in a thinking. I think it's interesting to hear this coming From a Republican and Josh Hawley. Jeannie, if this passes the House, will John Thune have to take it up for a vote? Would it pass the Senate?

[Ad]

He absolutely should take it up. And God willing, it passes 100 to nothing and they get rid of it. Maybe It'll be like 92 to 8, I don't know. But it is absolutely outrageous. The reality is, is that when you are in the process of an investigation and you are looking at a target and you are the DOJ or the FBI and you legally get warrants to get phone records, we are all subject to that. If that is done unconstitutionally, then we need to make a decision as a country whether we allow for suing the federal government or federal officials over that. But you cannot carve out that these eight people, because they happen to be U.S. senators and very powerful, can ensue. And the rest of us, you know, we are just going to have to languish in the land of the powerless. That is absolutely a two tier system of justice. So, you know, that is the problem here. They need to make a decision. And again, look at the Biven Act. It was completely unable to get out of committee. Would have allowed for this for all of us. If that's where they want to go, go there. But don't just go there for eight or Republican senators.

[Joe Matthew]

Lastly, Rick, in our remaining minute or two here, what does this mean for the relationship between Mike Johnson and John Thune? These two seem to be very much in sync throughout the whole shutdown. This is a kind of a weird way to end it, isn't it?

[Rick Davis]

Yeah, I think they had their back on this, but they've, they've grinded gears and other issues. It wasn't long ago we were talking about the Senate jamming them on the big beautiful bill. I mean like that. So this is not unusual, right? I mean like, like what the leader of the Senate does and the leader of the House does tends to be in conflict a good part of the time. And yet in this case, this was a not a policy issue that was putting them in conflict. But John Thune giving a gift to eight senators and nobody else in the Senate or House benefited from it. And I don't blame the speaker for being outraged by this and kudos to him for bringing it up publicly and having a conversation about it because I do think this is what keeps people honest.

[Joe Matthew]

Great panel. Lit up the panel with this topic. Rick Davis and Jeanne Shann Zaino, thank you so much both. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every week day from Washington D.C. at noontime [e-mail] in the heat of battle, your.

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[Rick Davis]

Lenovo.

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