
Hosted by Bankless · EN

The internet is about to be flooded by machines, and Matthew Prince thinks the old business model is not ready. The Cloudflare co-founder and CEO joins Bankless to explain why AI agent traffic could overtake human traffic by 2027, how crawlers are changing the economics of content, why ads and subscriptions may not survive in their current form, and how x402, stablecoins, and pay-per-crawl could create a new payment layer for the web.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTHhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro1:18 When AI Bot Traffic Overtakes Humans4:19 What Cloudflare Actually Does10:40 Life on the Internet’s “Ice Wall”13:33 The Internet’s Business Model Problem17:43 Google, Traffic, and the Attention Economy24:56 AI Agents and the End of Ads28:47 Why Faster Answers Can Still Hurt Creators33:26 AI Companies as the Next YouTube or Netflix38:18 Creating Scarcity for Content Markets41:52 Content Independence Day45:24 Should AI Agents Count as Human Users?51:37 The Risks of Subscription-Only AI57:24 A Golden Age of Content Creation?1:01:46 Pay-Per-Crawl and x4021:04:34 Why Stablecoins Matter1:07:56 The Cloudflare Stablecoin Question1:14:18 The Final Form of the Internet1:17:40 The Park Record and Local Journalism1:22:16 The Centralization Risk1:27:12 Advice for Content Creators---RESOURCESMatthew Princehttps://x.com/eastdakota---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Crypto’s old leaders are struggling, but new winners are breaking out. Ryan and David unpack the rise of HYPE, Zcash, and Venice, the macro bear fuel markets are ignoring, the EF talent exodus, and why David selling his last ETH may mark a new era for Ethereum and Bankless.---📣METAMASK | $100,000 ONDO GM CHALLENGEhttps://bankless.cc/OndoOnMetaMask ---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTHhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix---TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES0:00 Intro3:28 Bear Fuel for Markets & Pockets of Bullishness in Cryptohttps://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2056184339390419205https://x.com/Barchart/status/2056350919139500364https://x.com/JesseCohenInv/status/2056297490366837184https://imgur.com/YqnyoBchttps://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2056556783221502060https://polymarket.com/event/how-many-fed-rate-cuts-in-2026https://thedefireport.io/research/signs-of-a-cycle-bottom#macro-updatehttps://www.cnbc.com/2026/05/21/iran-war-us-peace-talks-trump-hormuz.htmlhttps://polymarket.com/event/us-x-iran-permanent-peace-deal-by21:27 Hyperliquid, HYPE, and Pre-IPO Price Discoveryhttps://x.com/Matt_Hougan/status/2056720926234882533https://polymarket.com/event/openai-ipo-closing-market-caphttps://www.coindesk.com/markets/2026/05/20/elon-musk-s-spacex-holds-18-712-bitcoin-at-fair-value-of-usd1-29-billion-ipo-filing-showshttps://www.reuters.com/legal/government/sec-readies-plan-trading-crypto-versions-stocks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-05-18/https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2026/05/21/binance-launches-spacex-pre-ipo-perps32:43 Wintermute Opens DeFi Vaults on Morphohttps://www.wintermute.com/insights/news/wintermute-launches-armitage-bringing-its-defi-and-trading-expertise-to-vault-curationhttps://x.com/wintermute_t/status/2056722776241902065https://bitwiseinvestments.com/newsroom/bitwise-expands-onchain-solutions-with-introduction-of-non-custodial-vault38:12 Trump’s Quantum Bets and U.S. Industrial Policy & Blockchain.com IPO and Ronin Migrates to Ethereum L2https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2057431484915454235https://www.theblock.co/post/402182/blockchain-com-confidentially-files-for-us-ipo-as-crypto-firms-continue-public-market-pushhttps://www.coindesk.com/tech/2026/05/11/ronin-set-to-transition-to-ethereum-layer-2-from-independent-sidechain46:34 EF Exodus and Ethereum’s Identity Crisishttps://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2056383261648015443https://x.com/drjasper_eth/status/2056405742769377490/photo/1https://x.com/tkstanczak/status/2022315368430067847https://x.com/0xstark/status/2044757694389670239https://x.com/trent_vanepps/status/2044412517313556786https://x.com/barnabemonnot/status/2053914533211558331https://x.com/TimBeiko/status/2050570831491645874https://blog.ethereum.org/2026/05/11/protocol-update-may-26https://x.com/CarlBeek/status/2056379557889143042https://x.com/_julianma/status/2056391635731128763https://x.com/DefiIgnas/status/2056403039968174208https://www.theblock.co/post/395541/miladys-loyalty-pledge-unnecessary-culture-schism-ethereum-communityhttps://x.com/josephdelong/status/2019116049694880021https://x.com/dankrad/status/2057441946616930799https://x.com/ETH_Daily/status/2056549932455330020https://x.com/wmougayar/status/20472748072306118051:00:04 David Sold His ETH and a New Era for Banklesshttps://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2057183150816583834https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/20572169813682217761:10:00 Moment of Zenhttps://x.com/ethcforg/status/2057474005913792654 ---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Bitcoin may be outgrowing the “digital gold” narrative. David sits down with Strive Chief Risk Officer Jeff Walton to unpack how Bitcoin-backed credit products like SATA and Strategy’s STRETCH could turn BTC into digital capital, why Jeff says the “Ponzi” framing misunderstands the balance sheet, how 13% yield and daily dividends could disrupt credit markets, and why this new financial layer may expand Bitcoin’s TAM far beyond gold.---📣OKX | THE NEW MONEY APPhttps://bankless.cc/OKXapp---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTHhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro1:59 Stretch, Risk, and Balance Sheets5:28 Dividend Backstop Debate8:53 Measuring Bitcoin Downside15:25 Success as Long-Tail Risk19:17 Common Equity as Revenue25:57 Digital Credit’s Massive Market29:37 Credit, Liquidity, and Yield33:02 Banks, Trust, and Inflation36:08 Trust Networks Rebuilt40:26 Digital Labor and Yield44:38 Bitcoin’s Growing Capital Base48:36 S-Curve and Market Size52:36 Building on Bitcoin Instruments55:58 Transforming the Asset59:12 Co-opetition in Bitcoin Credit1:03:23 Low Vol for Long Holders1:09:13 Strive Versus Strategy1:12:38 Scaling Faster Than Strategy1:14:38 Jeff’s Bitcoin Origin Story1:17:30 Closing & Disclaimers---RESOURCESJeff Waltonhttps://x.com/PunterJeffTrue North Showhttps://www.youtube.com/@BTCTrueNorthJeff’s Coffeezilla Interviewhttps://youtu.be/pvZnpppwkoM?si=lXcF6r02yzmYE9jt---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Zcash is having its first real narrative moment in years. David sits down with Multicoin Capital co-founder Tushar Jain and Mert Mumtaz to unpack why privacy may be crypto’s missing store-of-value primitive, why Zcash is being framed as “private Bitcoin,” how institutional adoption could normalize shielded money, what AI and onchain surveillance change about the privacy debate, and why quantum risk could become a real catalyst.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTHhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Why Multicoin Got Interested in Zcash5:22 Mert’s Path from Solana to Zcash9:57 Why Zcash, Why Now?17:01 The Institutional Path for Private Money22:03 Zcash as a Private Store of Value25:27 Fungibility, Tainted Coins, and Financial History27:26 The Bear Case: Does Anyone Really Care About Privacy?34:43 Onchain Surveillance and Government Power39:13 Zcash Tokenomics and the Forgotten Coin Thesis44:58 The Last PVE in Crypto50:17 Zcash and the Quantum Threat59:14 Shielded Pool Growth and Upcoming Catalysts---RESOURCESTushar Jainhttps://x.com/tushar_jainMert Mumtazhttps://x.com/mert---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Two surprise Democrat votes just rerated the entire crypto policy timeline.After the Senate Banking Committee advanced the Clarity Act on a bipartisan basis, Galaxy Digital head of research Alex Thorn moved his odds of the bill being signed this year from a coin flip to 75%.He and David map the seven-week sprint to the president's desk, the ethics-provision standoff that could still sink everything, the bank lobby's quiet obstruction game, and why the stablecoin yield compromise leaves the real fight for rulemaking.------📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium------🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTHhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo ------TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro0:39 Clarity Act Vote Reactions5:16 What’s Next?10:05 Trump Veto?15:21 Stablecoin Rewards Compromise28:14 Administration Precedence31:02 Why is Clarity So Important?41:01 Which Ecosystems Benefit the Most?42:59 Clarity Act Passing Over-Under48:17 Bitcoin Price After CLARITY49:39 Closing & Disclaimers------RESOURCESAlex Thornhttps://x.com/intangiblecoins Galaxy Digitalhttps://www.galaxy.com/ Senate Banking Committee Advances Crypto CLARITY Acthttps://www.bankless.com/read/news/senate-banking-committee-advances-crypto-clarity-act ------Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Markets are ignoring every warning sign as stocks hit new highs, but crypto may finally have its catalyst. Ryan and David break down the CLARITY Act’s key vote, Wall Street’s Ethereum push, Bitcoin’s $80K test, and why private AI stocks are creating chaos onchain.---📣GALAXY | INSTITUTIONAL DIGITAL FINANCEhttps://bankless.cc/Galaxy ---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🟦 COINBASE ONE | GET 20% OFF https://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo---TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES0:00 Intro2:46 Trump/Xi Meeting, Nvidia China Deal, and AI Stockshttps://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/2054607212513730674https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/us-clears-h200-chip-sales-10-china-firms-nvidia-ceo-looks-breakthrough-2026-05-14/https://imgur.com/wLddwGMhttps://x.com/BullTheoryio/status/2054558694785077478https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2054177816573329496https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/https://x.com/coindesk/status/2054542868522365141https://x.com/TedPillows/status/2054545275281182861https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2054940927379014035https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2054655260652716149https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/ethereum28:06 Circle Earnings, Arc, and USDC Growthhttps://x.com/circle/status/2053785252037022157https://x.com/marcarjoon/status/2054539947466522815https://www.cnbc.com/2026/05/11/circle-closes-222-million-from-blackrock-apollo-for-arc-blockchain.htmlhttps://x.com/coingecko/status/205404280020371915832:54 Coinbase, USDC, and Hyperliquid Team Up + Anthropic and OpenAI Crack Down on Unauthorized Private Stock Saleshttps://x.com/wallstengine/status/2054928782918816102https://app.hyperliquid.xyz/trade/xyz:CBRShttps://x.com/caseycraig/status/205356838079636730146:57 CLARITY Act Passes Key Committee Votehttps://x.com/brian_armstrong/status/2054552885376016718 https://x.com/DegenerateNews/status/2054968887796539789https://x.com/valkenburgh/status/2054968314292486621https://x.com/EleanorTerrett/status/2052890357952627000https://polymarket.com/event/clarity-act-signed-into-law-in-2026/?via=bankless?https://x.com/FidelityPolicy/status/2054587652121284648https://x.com/EleanorTerrett/status/2054295187048853637https://www.banking.senate.gov/newsroom/minority/warren-statement-on-no-trump-ethics-provision-in-crypto-billhttps://x.com/patrickjwitt/status/2054183222305554643https://x.com/glxyresearch/status/2054635251503108596https://x.com/EleanorTerrett/status/205457582568136709855:58 BlackRock, JPMorgan, and Fidelity Bring Money Markets to Ethereumhttps://x.com/VivekVentures/status/2054946669083390374https://x.com/VivekVentures/status/2053101323390754982https://x.com/NateGeraci/status/2052872497...

Anthropic's secondary market is tens of billions of dollars deep, stacked with SPVs on top of SPVs charging 10% fees plus carry, and almost entirely opaque. Dio Casares of Patagon breaks down how it actually works: which deals Anthropic blesses and which get cease-and-desists, why fake share certificates show up in 10-20% of executed deals, what tokenized equities and pre-IPO perps actually represent, and the mess of lawsuits and stuck shares coming when Anthropic finally IPOs. ------📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium------🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTHhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo ------TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro0:40 What is Going on in Secondary Markets?7:03 How Anthropic Secondary Markets Unfold14:51 Anthropic’s Secondaries Social Elite19:00 Emerging SPV Structure21:51 Accidental Frauds?27:04 After IPO Consequences35:13 Private Market Lessons38:21 Patagon Markets43:54 Tokenized Perps44:57 Closing Thoughts------RESOURCESDiogenes Cesareshttps://x.com/diogenes Patagon Marketshttps://patagonmarkets.com/ ------Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

AI is no longer just a technology story. It is becoming a political fault line. Jasmine Sun joins Bankless to unpack the rise of AI populism, why backlash against data centers and AI labs is spreading across strange political coalitions, and whether jobs, inequality, and SuperPAC money could turn AI into a defining 2028 election issue.---🎬 DEBRIEF | RYAN & DAVID BREAKDOWN THE EPSIODEhttps://www.bankless.com/podcast/debrief-will-ai-populism-decide-the-2028-election---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🟦 COINBASE ONE | GET 20% OFFhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo---TIMESTAMPS0:00 What Is AI Populism?2:56 Why AI Could Matter in 202811:13 Data Centers, Distrust, and Warning Shots25:27 The Jobpacalypse Debate43:25 Game Over for Labor?51:52 The New AI Political Map1:04:50 Power Inequality, Policy, and the Grand Bargain1:18:37 How to Stay Useful in the AI Era---RESOURCESJasmine Sunhttps://x.com/jasminewsunJasmine’s Substackhttps://substack.com/@jasmine---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

AI stocks are ripping, crypto is following, and the question is whether this is the next leg higher or the final frothy phase before a reset. Ryan and Michael Nadeau break down why Bitcoin is so tied to the NASDAQ right now, how today’s AI boom compares to 1999, and what investors should watch if the bubble keeps inflating or finally starts to burst.Michael Nadeau & The DeFi Report:https://x.com/JustDeauIthttps://bankless.cc/BTDR-RSS---📣THE DEFI REPORT | 20% OFF ANNUAL PLANShttps://bankless.cc/BTDR-RSS ---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🟦 COINBASE ONE | GET 20% OFF https://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo---TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES0:00 Intro1:48 The Bubble Debate3:16 Defining the Bubble4:33 Historical Perspectives on Bubbles7:20 AI's Growth and Market Narratives8:46 Technology Hype Cycles11:21 Current Market Analysis12:08 Understanding the Shiller PE Ratio15:09 Revenue Growth Forecasts18:19 Theories Behind Current Market Conditions20:44 Analyzing Profit Margins23:53 Price vs. Fundamentals27:26 The Role of Market Sentiment31:30 Historical Market Patterns32:32 Lessons from the Dot-Com Era35:17 Market Concentration and AI39:38 The Future of AI Investments41:45 Capital Flows in Tech49:31 Geopolitical Implications and Market Behavior53:25 Investor Positioning Strategies1:04:30 Closing & Disclaimers---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

North Korea isn’t just hacking crypto anymore, it’s studying it, infiltrating it, and turning DeFi’s weakest links into a state-run revenue machine. This time around, Ryan and David sit down with Ari Redbord of TRM Labs to unpack the Drift hack, the $6B DPRK crypto crime machine, how stolen funds move through THORChain, Bitcoin, OTC desks, and Chinese laundering networks, and why the fightback may require everything from better DeFi security to real-time Beacon alerts and offensive cyber.---🎬 DEBRIEF | RYAN & DAVID BREAKDOWN THE EPISODEhttps://www.bankless.com/podcast/debrief-why-north-korea-is-winning-crypto-crime-and-how-to-fight-back-ari-redbord-trm-labs---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🟦 COINBASE ONE | GET 20% OFFhttps://bankless.cc/coinbase-one🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premierhttps://bankless.cc/nexo---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro2:16 The Drift Hack5:15 Human Weak Points11:16 The DPRK Hacker Network14:56 The $6B Machine20:32 Fighting Back28:11 Seizures and Victims38:58 Inside TRM Labs47:01 Laundering Rails52:51 The Beacon Network58:06 Privacy vs Security1:10:20 Code and Crime1:14:49 Iran on Tron1:22:55 Bitcoin and Power1:28:49 Hardening DeFi---RESOURCESAri Redbordhttps://x.com/ARedbordTRM Labshttps://www.trmlabs.com/TRM’s DPRK Reporthttps://www.trmlabs.com/resources/blog/north-korea-stole-76-of-all-crypto-hack-value-in-2026-with-just-two-attacksAri’s Homeland Security Testimonyhttps://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/119126/witnesses/HHRG-119-HM11-Wstate-RedbordA-20260421.pdf---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures