Bankless Episode Summary

Episode Title: FinTech Meets Crypto: The Future of Global Payments | Simon Taylor
Air Date: September 17, 2025
Host(s): Ryan Sean Adams, David Hoffman
Guest: Simon Taylor (Fintech Brainfood, ex-Barclays, Tempo chain/Stripe)

Overview

This episode explores the current convergence of traditional fintech and crypto, focusing on the rise of payments blockchains (“payments chains”), the role of stablecoins as a bridge, and the evolving competitive and collaborative landscape as fintech, payments infrastructure, and blockchain technologies increasingly overlap. Simon Taylor, a longstanding fintech expert and recent leader at Stripe's backed Tempo payments chain, offers nuanced insight bridging both communities.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Divide and Bridge: Fintech Meets Crypto

• Fintech and Crypto Parallel Universes:
  Simon describes serving as a "tradfi translator," given his deep roots in both fintech (Barclays, Fintech Brainfood) and crypto (helping the London Ethereum community).
• Cultural Differences:
  Fintech tends to be more conservative and compliance-driven; crypto is rapid, public, and permissionless. Both have unique strengths and historical challenges.
• “Fintech 3.0” = Stablecoins:
  Simon asserts: "Crypto doesn’t really exist in the fintech world, but stablecoins are the number one topic. That’s the nuance. Stablecoins are Fintech 3.0." ([71:54])

2. The AWS Moment for Payments

• Analogy:
  Payments chains and stablecoins are to finance what AWS was to cloud computing—taking complex, messy infrastructure and standardizing it into a scalable, efficient utility.
• Legacy Rails Are Obsolete:
  The current payment landscape is built on fragile, antiquated systems (COBOL, mainframes from the 1960s), prone to edge cases and reconciliation failures.
• Simon on the Impact:

  "Somebody took 80% of my cost and complexity and said, hey, this is a utility you can pay per hour...the aha moment that bankers get when they see AWS is exactly the moment you get when you see payments chains." ([10:46])

3. Payments Chains Defined

• What Is a Payments Chain?
  A blockchain (often EVM-based) optimized specifically for massive transaction throughput, fast finality, stablecoin-centric activity, and features that align with regulated payment industry requirements.
• Examples:
  Circle’s Arc Chain, Tether Plasma, Stripe's Tempo, and Tron are named as current/soon-public payments chains, each with a slightly different focus (e.g., capital markets, global south remittances).

4. Features and Innovations in Payments Chains

• Key Features:
  • Gas paid in denominated currencies (e.g., USD), not tokens.
  • Support for any stablecoin (stablecoin-agnostic).
  • Enshrined automated market makers (AMMs) for stablecoin swaps.
  • Permissionless creation of stablecoins and wallets.
  • Backward compatibility with compliance needs (e.g., ISO 20022 fields).
  • Fast, deterministic settlement and reconciliation.
• Design Philosophy:
  Payments chains should be 'machetes, not Swiss Army knives'—focused, performant, and compatible with TradFi systems.

5. Interoperability and the Looming “Fragmentation Problem”

• Will Every Company Have Their Own Payments Chain?
  Simon acknowledges the risk of returning to a fragmented ecosystem but stresses this is an innovative phase.

  "Let many flowers bloom, and we'll make a meadow and figure out how to garden the thing later." ([35:20])

• Natural Market Forces:
  Power laws (network effects) will consolidate winners over time, but allowing multiple approaches is essential for evolution.

6. Governance, Neutrality, and Permissionlessness

• Tension Between TradFi and Crypto Ideals:
  • The crypto community’s standard for 'neutrality and permissionlessness' is extremely high (e.g., enemies can use the network).
  • Corporate blockchains will not be that maximal; more likely, they will be open within “zones” (e.g., Western payments, trusted entities).
• Simon’s Commitment:

  “Ultimately, it’s about walking the walk. There’s a promise to keep. I take that very personally and very seriously, and everyone in the team does.” ([39:45])

• Historical Parallels:
  Visa’s origin as a cooperative of adversarial banks, later demutualized, is highlighted as a possible roadmap or lesson.
• Governance Challenges:
  Concerns exist, echoed from Libra’s failure, about corporate chains betraying their promise of neutrality once they achieve network effects.

7. Stablecoins, Tokenized Deposits, and CBDCs

• Distinctions:
  • Stablecoins: Backed primarily by T-bills/treasuries (under acts like the “Genius Act”)—public, regulated, and accessible to all.
  • Tokenized Deposits: On-chain representations of actual bank deposits, primarily targeted at large corporates for 24/7 instant settlement.
  • CBDC: Central-bank controlled digital currency, mostly focused on interbank settlements or specific policy targets (e.g., offline cash-like use cases).
• Value Chain:

  “Consumers use stablecoins to buy from corporations; corporations bank with banks; and banks interact with central banks. The whole existing stack just becomes more efficient, global, and always-on.” ([54:40])

• Deposit Flight Risk:
  Unbundling of bank checking accounts is underway due to stablecoins’ better yield and 24/7 liquidity—a threat (and opportunity) for banks to innovate.

8. The Power Law and Proliferation of Stablecoins

• Prediction:
  A handful (top five) branded stablecoins will dominate, but there will be “hundreds of thousands” of niche or localized stablecoins (“gift card” stablecoins).
  • Universal AMM utilities or governance standards will be needed to achieve fungibility and seamless UX.

9. Stablecoins as the Gateway Drug for Tokenization

• Broadening the Spectrum:
  Once stablecoins are integrated, fintechs and markets will gradually absorb tokenized T-bills, stocks, and other assets.

  • "Stablecoins are the gateway drug for fintech into tokenization. The revolution will be tokenized. Every asset class will become a token, it’s just a matter of time.” ([74:56])

10. The Cultural and Religious Divide: Crypto vs. TradFi

• Crypto as Religion, TradFi as Frenemies:
  Crypto is tribal, sometimes adversarial; TradFi is ruthless yet pragmatic, mixing competition with collaboration.
• Are Values at Risk?
  Some worry core crypto values—property rights, credible neutrality—may be diluted as TradFi institutionalizes blockchain tech.

  • “Not everyone wants to be their own bank. Being your own bank is also dealing with your own bank robbers…The cypherpunk movement will always find the next thing…Meanwhile, the world will need easy on-ramps.” ([80:08])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Simon Taylor on the State of Banks:

  “There are literally…guys called the COBOL Cowboys, people in their 70s and 80s that go in and fix mainframes inside legacy organizations that are too critical not to fall over. Nobody else knows how these things work—it’s just wild how bad the tech is.” ([15:42])

• Simon Taylor’s “Daywalker” Origin:

  “By day I wore the suit and by night I was going to [Ethereum] meetups…so now I feel like Wall Street loves Ethereum and tokens, but payments was always more conservative.” ([6:06])

• On Permissionlessness and Neutrality:

  “You can be neutral and permissionless within a smaller zone…all of the good acting western, banking, and fintech companies. You just…I don’t see that there’s a way for a corporation to get all the way to Ethereum levels of neutrality.” – Ryan ([43:06])

• On Becoming a Utility:

  “I could have built all of this myself but I wouldn’t have built it as well as someone who does nothing but that at massive scale for the whole industry.” ([12:23])

• Simon on the Trajectory:

  “Stablecoins are to fintech what AWS was to software—finally, you can plug into a payments network as a utility and scale globally.” ([10:46], paraphrase)

• On the Cycles of Crypto and Payments:

  “The annoying thing about crypto cycles is, for most banks to stay interested, the tech has to be the same for 3–4 years. Crypto has this annoying habit of just…disappearing for a while.” ([87:48])

• Cultural Reflections:

  “Crypto always feels like a battle of religions. TradFi always feels like a battle of frenemies—you go hard competing, but you’re also each other’s best customer.” ([81:50])

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–05:43: Simon’s background, the fintech–crypto “daywalker” story
• 07:28–09:44: Peak/fall of fintech, Synapse crisis, lessons from crypto
• 10:46–13:13: ‘AWS moment’ for payments chains analogy
• 14:23–23:19: How traditional payments actually (fail to) work; the wiring mess
• 23:19–25:40: Financial inclusion, “money deserts” and stablecoins in the Global South
• 27:21–30:13: Payments chain definition, current landscape (Tempo, Arc, Plasma, Tron)
• 31:19–33:59: Unique features of payments chains (fiat gas, stablecoin AMMs, compliance fields)
• 34:52–37:38: Will payments chains fragment finance? Innovation phase, power laws, governance
• 39:45–42:56: Corporate chains, neutrality, Libra/Tempo, incentives and governance
• 53:01–54:40: Stablecoins vs. tokenized deposits vs. CBDCs
• 58:05–61:17: Will stablecoins unbundle banks? Risks, opportunities for innovation
• 66:57–68:27: Stablecoin future: power laws, “AMM as utility” for niche stablecoins
• 71:54–73:53: Stablecoins are FinTech 3.0, crypto’s role viewed from fintech
• 74:56–77:33: “Stablecoins are the gateway drug for tokenization”
• 80:08–82:56: Cultures/civilizations: Will values converge or split?
• 84:05–86:19: Does consolidation (EVM, open protocols) risk new forms of platform lock-in?
• 89:05–93:13: US vs. Europe, regulatory innovation vs. caution
• 96:27–98:19: Future: Agentic commerce (AI agents + payments)
• 98:51–99:28: Where to find Simon: Tokenized podcast, Fintech Brainfood

Additional Memorable Moments

• Fintech vs. Crypto Drama (07:18):
  Simon on fintech’s drama: “The bags aren’t quite as deep…but there’s plenty of crime in regular tradfi.”
• The Mullets and DeFi (71:04–72:29):
  DeFi “mullets” (fintech front end, DeFi back end) and why the future of fintech will be powered by crypto plumbing.

Concluding Note

This episode provides a comprehensive lens on how fintech will inevitably “go bankless,” with payment blockchains and stablecoins as the killer app, while also wrestling with the tradeoffs, governance, stability, and the deeper cultural/religious divides between the worlds of Wall Street and the cypherpunks. The main takeaway: the infrastructure of money is being rewritten, and whether or not it looks like “crypto,” nearly every financial institution will soon be operating on digital rails designed by—or at least, inspired by—the cryptoeconomy.