PREMIUM - Preston Van Loon, Uma Roy, DeFi Dave | David's Personal Research

Summary

Bankless Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: PREMIUM - Preston Van Loon, Uma Roy, DeFi Dave | David's Personal Research
Date: September 13, 2025
Host: Ryan Sean Adams
Guests: Uma Roy (Succinct), Preston Van Loon (Ethereum Core Dev), DeFi Dave (Cap Money)

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Episode Overview

This episode offers listeners a curated sampler of the Bankless Premium feed, featuring in-depth, research-driven conversations with three notable figures shaping the future of crypto. Each guest provides a five to eight minute insight into major innovations in ZK proofs (Uma Roy), Ethereum’s roadmap (Preston Van Loon), and decentralized stablecoin models (DeFi Dave). Listeners get a cutting-edge, behind-the-scenes look at how core infrastructure, protocol development, and DeFi products are evolving to serve billions.

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1. Uma Roy: The Succinct Prover Network and the ZK Proof Marketplace

Timestamps: 00:55–07:50

Main Points:

• Succinct Prover Network Explained:
  The network serves as a decentralized marketplace, linking those who need cryptographic proofs (demand side) with those providing them (supply side).

  “The Succinct Prover network is a decentralized marketplace connecting applications needing proofs with a global network of provers.”
  — Ryan Sean Adams, reading from Succinct’s blog [00:43]

• Major Consumers of Proofs:

  • ZK Rollups and L2s:
    Platforms like Optimism, Base, Arbitrum—eventually, all rollups aim to adopt ZK tech for instant (or near-instant) finality and reduced transaction costs.

    “Basically every roll up will be a ZK roll up. They're huge consumers of proofs and ... get a lot of benefits from it, like instant or close to instant finality ...”
    — Uma Roy [02:16]

  • Ethereum L1:
    Real-time block proving allows Ethereum to scale while remaining decentralized and verifiable.

    “The way they're going to ... scale it while still keeping it verifiable is this concept of real time proving where you can prove Ethereum blocks in less than 12 seconds ... instead of having to re execute transactions.”
    — Uma Roy [03:06]

  • Verifiable Exchanges:
    Growth in on-chain order books and verifiable trading exchanges, particularly for perpetuals and spot trading.

• Proof Demand is Real and Large:
  Roy refutes skepticism about demand for ZK proofs, presenting numbers that show hundreds of millions in annual proving demand as the ecosystem scales.

  “If you multiply out those numbers ... that ends up being like $100 million of proving demand ... And same with the exchange.”
  — Uma Roy [05:36] “Ethereum L1 today ... spends like 4 to 5 billion dollars in issuance to the validators. ... Imagine you take 10% of that... $500 million which is also a lot of money.”
  — Uma Roy [06:33]

• Supply Side:
  Now that the network is live, decentralized entities globally are entering as prover operators.

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2. Preston Van Loon: Ethereum’s Roadmap – Fusaka, Glamsterdam, and Beyond

Timestamps: 07:50–14:25

Main Points:

• Fusaka and Glamsterdam Hard Forks:

  • Fusaka planned by end of 2025, Glamsterdam by mid-2026.
  • Prepares the chain for critical upgrades; discussion around major EIPs still “in the air.”

• Decreasing Block (Slot) Times:

  • Preston advocates ramping down slot times by one second monthly over six months. Testing has demonstrated feasibility even at very low slot times.

    “You can just say...we can have a fork and progressively over...six spots, we can just reduce the slot time by one second every month for six months...”
    — Preston Van Loon [08:28]

  • Impact: Shorter slot times and three- or single-slot finality would be major for both users and L2s, providing confirmation in seconds instead of minutes.

    “At least with six seconds and like a three slot finality you go from finality being every six minutes to now it's like every 18 seconds. So that's like a really, really huge improvement.”
    — Preston Van Loon [11:07]

• Privacy Tech:
  Preston hopes to see native encrypted mempools and private transactions in Ethereum’s future—vital for mainstream, anonymous use cases.

  “Hope for some privacy solutions that are built into Ethereum soon.”
  — Preston Van Loon [09:22]

• Cross-L2 Homogeneity for UX:
  The vision: a seamless, interoperable “big ledger” among all L2s, improving wallet UX and abstracting away network complexity.

  “You have this like cross, cross L2 compatibility where I can just like swap between things...feels like one big account that I can swap between three things really quickly.”
  — Preston Van Loon [12:04] “One big global computer.”
  — Preston Van Loon [12:41]

• Timeline:
  Expect dramatic UX and speed upgrades by H Star (mid-2027), possibly sooner if the current acceleration continues.

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3. DeFi Dave: Cap Money and Next-Generation Stablecoins

Timestamps: 14:25–19:58

Main Points:

• What is Cap Money?
  Cap is a new Ethereum-based stablecoin protocol, collateralized by existing stablecoins (like USDC, PYUSD) and characterized by a three-pronged marketplace:

  1. Users: Mint the stablecoin (cUSD) with USDC, PYUSD, etc.
  2. Operators (Yield Generators): Professional, regulated Wall Street trading firms and market makers deploy these assets to generate yield, using both on-chain and proprietary off-chain strategies.
  3. Restakers: Provide capital and take the risk, underwriting the protocol via restaked ETH or LRTs (Liquid Restaked Tokens).

  “Cap, we are a stable coin but built on Ethereum and we are backed by your standard reserved collateral. So usdc, pyusd and we basically use Reef stakers...they basically allocate the collateral to different yield generators...and they generate on yield for on behalf of the protocol.”
  — DeFi Dave [15:18]

• Innovative Design:

  • Infinite Canvas for Yield:
    Unlike protocols with a single yield strategy, Cap allows any operator with a compelling strategy to compete, theoretically making it highly scalable.

    “I like to call cap, the infinite canvas for yield. So instead of just, you know, one strategy...But with cap, you have different operators competing to beat the hurdle rate...this cap, can scale infinitely greater than any stablecoin before.”
    — DeFi Dave [18:50]

  • Downside Protection for Users:
    Stablecoin holders are fully protected from operator failures; losses are absorbed by the restakers, not users.

    “Instead of the user holding the bag, which we've seen all too often, it's the rest taker taking the risk and getting rewarded for it on behalf of the user.”
    — DeFi Dave [18:50]

  • Industry Credibility:
    Team includes veterans from Frax, Redacted, Beefy, and Qidao. Operators include regulated, global trading firms.

• Academic Framing:
  Cap positions itself as the first “Type 3 Stablecoin”—a classification recently highlighted in a Stanford Crypto blog.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “You can do this today. I mean, yeah, I think like Justin and all those people had thought this would be like five, 10 years out and then I think we all kind of like surprised them with how fast it came...”
  — Uma Roy, on ZK proving speed [03:49]

• “At least with six seconds and like a three slot finality you go from finality being every six minutes to now it's like every 18 seconds. So that's like a really, really huge improvement.”
  — Preston Van Loon [11:07]

• “All the capital that they keep, they make for themselves. So they basically have a way to grow their book at no cost of capital, which is to any yield generator and operator...music to their ears...”
  — DeFi Dave [17:47]

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Key Timestamps for Segment Jumping

• 00:55–07:50 – Uma Roy on Succinct, ZK proofs, and marketplace supply/demand
• 07:50–14:25 – Preston Van Loon on Ethereum roadmaps, shorter slot times, privacy, and cross-L2 UX
• 14:25–19:58 – DeFi Dave on Cap Money, restakers, and the stablecoin marketplace model

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Takeaways

• ZK proving tech and the associated proving marketplace are entering mainstream utility, serving both rollups and exchanges, with real—and large—demand.
• Ethereum’s hard forks and roadmap promise faster finality, better privacy, and user experience breakthroughs via L2 interoperability, with ambitious but credible acceleration.
• DeFi stablecoins are entering a new era of risk separation, infinite-yield opportunity, and institutional involvement, as exemplified by Cap’s model.

For deeper dives, access the full episodes (and ad-free listening) via the Bankless Premium feed.

Transcript

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Foreign we got some extra weekend content for you here on the Bankless Free RSS feed. On this episode you're going to hear a compilation from three different guests from three different episodes that all got released on the Bankless Premium RSS feed. Uma Roy from Succinct Ethereum Core, Dev, Preston Van Loon and Defi Dave from Cap Money, a new stablecoin startup that just released a few weeks ago. But you're not going to hear the whole episodes, just five to eight minute sections that we've cut out from each full length episode. Splice them together just to give you a preview, a taste of what is found on the Bankless Premium RSS feed. The premium RSS feed is kind of like where I do a lot of my own just personal research. I have the luxury of when I want to learn something about crypto, I can pull in the right guests to ask them whatever it is I want to know. And of course I record these conversations and I put them on the premium RSS feed so people on the Bankless journey can get the same knowledge that I get when I talk to interesting people doing interesting things in crypto. So if you like what you're about to hear and you want to hear more of it, there is a link in the show notes so you can go and get access to the Bankless Premium feed where you can hear all of these bonus episodes and of course all the normal Bankless episodes that you get on the free feed, but you also get them ad free. So let's go hear from Uma Roy from Succinct, Preston from Ethereum and Defi Day from Cap, in that order. Right now with the. There's a blog that you guys released and I want to read a line from the blog saying the Succinct Prover network is a decentralized marketplace connecting applications needing proofs with a global network of provers. I think this is like a demand side and a supply side who compete on cost and performance, creating the infrastructure backbone that processes billions of proofs every single day. Can you talk about that supply and demand side? So you have, you have the demand side of people who just need proofs and then you have the supply side of the people creating the proofs. Who are the people that need proofs. And then what's. How does that actually go through the Succinct network and get actually processed by the supply side?

[Uma Roy]

Yeah, so we've talked a lot about SP1, which is kind of like the core technology that's like the tech platform that enables all this stuff. And then there's a succinct network which is how people actually like use something like SP1. So yeah, to talk about who the users are, I would say that right now there's three major buckets or categories. One is the ZK roll ups and L2s. So these are people like the optimisms, the bases, the arbitrams of the world. Vitalik. I don't know if you saw the Vitalik tweet where he was like, guys, ZK needs to be a top priority even above stage two. So yeah, basically every roll up will be a ZK roll up. They're huge consumers of proofs and they get a lot of benefits from it, like instant or close to instant finality instead of waiting seven days, et cetera, et cetera.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Right. And cheaper transactions.

[Defi Dave]

Right.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

So it's just a margin, it benefits their margins.

[Uma Roy]

I would say it helps like instead of having capital locked by making capital locked up for a shorter amount of time, it helps like make the cost of Interop a lot cheaper.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Okay.

[Uma Roy]

The other big consumer that I think is really, really exciting, especially given Ethereum's resurgence. I saw you guys had that all time high, is Ethereum, the L1 itself.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Right.

[Uma Roy]

So like especially as Ethereum I think has gone all in being this like institutional chain asset issuance on the L1. They're like, we really need to scale the L1, but they still want to keep it decentralized and verifiable. And so the way they're going to kind of like square that circle and scale it while still keeping it verifiable is this concept of real time proving where you can prove Ethereum blocks in less than 12 seconds and then people all around the world can verify those proofs instead of having to re execute transactions.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

And this has always been on the Ethereum roadmap. This has been like the theoretical end game. Now we are actually starting to get to the point where like you can actually see that endgame on the horizon. Especially with the productization and launch of platforms like Succinct.

[Uma Roy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Which is proving that the ZK tech is actually here and ready and being adopted.

[Uma Roy]

Yeah, yeah. And like, like you can do this today. I mean, yeah, I think like Justin and all those people had thought this would be like five, 10 years out and then I think we all kind of like surprised them with how fast it came and then they're like, oh, that's awesome. Okay, let's like actually make this a lot more concrete now that we have like concrete proof points and evidence that we can take this to market ASAP. So there's Ethereum L1, there's L2s and then there's these like verifiable exchanges. Uh, I think like, you know, the clubs thing has been super popular on chain order books, especially with like Hyper Liquid. And a lot of builders are kind of building ZK versions of that where you have a verifiable on chain order book for perps or spot or whatever and ZK proving the execution of those. So that's the supply side and I think one thing and those are just.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

The categories of the customers that you're seeing today. But in truth anyone can be a customer. Those are just the themes that you're identifying.

[Uma Roy]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like those are really broad themes, like rollups. I mean there's like a lot of rollups on Ethereum. Like there's like the Robinhoods, like you know, the Kraken space. There's also our main net. There's also like the more crypto native stuff. So that's like a very big category.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Right.

[Uma Roy]

And the exchange stuff is obviously, I mean that's the hugest PMF application. Crypto. Yeah. So yeah, those are the big themes. I think one thing I want to highlight that I, I would love to convince people of is like, I think a lot of people think oh, where's like the demand for ZK or even in crypto infra in general it's like, oh, we've built all this infra, but where's the demand? And actually if you run the numbers like the demand is super real and also very, very large. Uh, so for example, even if you do like some back of the envelope math, and I was like doing it with my team like a few days ago, we're like okay, Ethereum and its rollups today I think can do like 400 tps. With fusaka which is like the next Upgrade, they're basically 10xing that to 4000 tps. If you imagine each transaction today, the average transaction on base costs like one to two cents. Imagine one tenth of that, like one tenth of a cent goes for to pay for proving. Seems reasonable. If you multiply out those numbers like 4,000 TPS, 110 of a cent per transaction times you know, 24 hours in a day, 365 days in a year, that ends up being like $100 million of proving demand. So I mean that's a lot, right? And same with the exchange.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

And we also expect roll ups to grow in both Quantity and scale.

[Uma Roy]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's just today like 4000 DBs is what like Solana does today. And like they're increasing, we're all increasing. You know Fusaka is going to come in November, like there, there's going to be hard forks next year too. So that's just the demand today I think is actually really big and probably a lot bigger than people expect. So the demand side I think is actually very rich. Even just within blockchains, within roll ups, within these applications to give it another number. Ethereum L1 today I think spends like 4 to 5 billion dollars in issuance to the validators. Now if you imagine that proving is going to become as core of a part of the system as validating and imagine, okay, there has been kind of some talk about maybe we should redirect some of these admissions and incentives to the provers. Okay, let's imagine you take 10% of that. 10% of like $5 billion is $500 million which is also a lot of money. So I think these markets especially on this demand side are probably a lot bigger than people imagine. And I think even our team, like we see that where we're always like overwhelmed with like the EF asking us like oh hey can you like please improve this or like all these roll ups being like oh we want to deploy it and like, you know, we, we have to like help these people out. So that's been like pretty exciting. On the supply side the people who are generating the proofs are these like prover entities all across the world. So where did they come from?

[Ryan Sean Adams]

How did they exist in the first place?

[Uma Roy]

Yeah, so it's actually really interesting and with the network going live we've, we now have a lot more signal on that because like for a while.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Next up you're going to hear from Preston Van Loon. As we talk about the short and medium term Ethereum roadmap. There are two, two Ethereum hard forks on the horizon. Fusaka maybe at the end of this year and Glamsterdam which will come roughly six months after Fusaka. We go through all the important updates in each of those and then we also look a little further out after that, which is what you will hear in this bit right here. We've talked about Fusaka, we've talked about Clamsterdam. There are some other EIPs that are kind of hanging around the air. I know like increasing or decreasing block times is, is one of them. What are some other just like big name EIPs that maybe haven't landed in any fork specifically that are still worth elevating.

[Preston Van Loon]

Decreasing block times is really. Or slot times is really, really interesting. I've actually been working on that for a few months. It's kind of cool to see like it working like it works the same way that a BPO schedule works. So you can just say like we can have a fork and progressively over like I like to say six spots. We can just reduce the slot time by one second every month for six months. Then we're at six months. So it kind of like ramps up slowly. That's really cool. I think the next like really big things are going to be like three slot finality or, or single slot finality because not only will you see an impact with the shorter block times slot times but finality will become shorter and shorter which is really important for like L2s. Just like anything like having proof of stake finality is really important thing for Ethereum. Beyond that, the next really big stuff I want to see are some privacy tech, right? Like to have encrypted mempools or actually private transactions. We've been talking a lot about tornado cash recently and it would be nice to have something in protocol that enables you to send money anonymously. That's really the whole point. And it's saying being a public ledger has a lot of benefits but it has the drawbacks of like I can, you know, if I, if I connect the wrong dots, I've just exposed everything I have to everybody and, and that's not always desired. So hope for some privacy solutions that are built into Ethereum soon.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

And now the hard fork after Glamsterdam I don't think has a name. Is that when we would start to think about the reasonable inclusion of shorter slot times?

[Preston Van Loon]

I think so. Right. Some people wanted it in Glamsterdam. We're already working on it now. As I said, I've been working on it for a couple months so I expect and I would probably support that for inclusion for what is like H, H Star and I don't know the name for it yet but G and H. Right.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

So yeah, in the happy case, how fast do you think slot times could get in H Star, including the. Over the ramping up. You talked about six seconds. Is that like your kind of your, your happy case?

[Preston Van Loon]

Yeah, I think so. That's like a, that's a. A 2x right? Like we would get twice as many blocks per day and I think that's like feasible for Mainnet. I like to see it go smaller like in my local testing I go down to one second and it doesn't fall apart. But that's like, that's like on my own computer.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Right.

[Preston Van Loon]

I think the, you know, in the next like let's just say like five years. Yeah. I think it would be, it would be reasonable to try to get down to one second. One second's fast. It is fast. I don't, I don't know how possible it would be with a, like a network and like the topology of the way Ethereum works but it would be, it would be really cool. At least with six seconds and like a three slot finality you go from finality being every six minutes to now it's like every 18 seconds. So that's like a really, really huge improvement.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

And that's already a massive order of magnitude upgrade.

[Preston Van Loon]

Yeah. And with the like when you zoom out and you look at the roll up centric roadmap right where we get scaling from L2S you can go if you want to go really really fast or you have a need to go really, really fast. Like I need to get my transaction in 100 milliseconds. There are networks for that that are within the Ethereum ecosystem.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

And when we like espresso. Is that espresso?

[Preston Van Loon]

I don't know any specific projects but sure, maybe espresso will go that fast. And then when you get this like there's a big unlock that I'm hoping for where the layer 2 space becomes homogeneous. You have this like cross, cross L2 compatibility where I can just like swap between things and I'm not having to like. And then wallet UX improves so I don't have like adding all these networks. I have like a dozen networks on my wallet and like it dust Ethan everywhere. I just, it just feels like one big account that I can swap between three things really quickly.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

One big ledger.

[Preston Van Loon]

Exactly.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

One big, One big global computer.

[Preston Van Loon]

Global computer. And then, then you're really close to that sharding vision where we had the idea where you split Ethereum in a bunch of chains and each of them could be like, they could be app chains in the sense they prioritize different things. That's really what the like this homogeneous L2 layer is going to be looking like. So when we get that like that's the UX part. When we get the homogeneous layer there like cross compatibility with those, you can transact between any L2 really quickly. That's you know, you won't need one second box on Ethereum because you can.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Go there and they, and the start of that story happens around H Star, which these are my words, will happen middle of 2027 if we, if we Glamster Dam. It happens end of 2026. H star will happen middle of 2027, which I think free people will feel like a long time from now because we're halfway through 2025. So that's like two years. But also, I don't know, I've been in Ethereum for eight years now. I think you've been in Ethereum nine or nine or maybe even all of them at some point. Two years. This is going to come very fast. Yeah, two years is not far away.

[Preston Van Loon]

It won't feel like. It won't feel like that long. Yeah, it goes pretty quickly and at the rate that we're accelerating, right. Like two big forks in one year is kind of huge. So I mean it's realistic that you know, if things go well with Clamsterdam, that H Star is like well scoped inspect and is like in final testing in the same year in 2026. So it could be like a Q1, Q2, 27, you know, being optimistic or maybe faster, I don't know because we're like I said, we're working on it right now. So we want to go fast.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

We want to go fast. Preston, I love it. This is really cool. It's always an exciting time to be in Ethereum. All right, that was Preston. Now we're going to hear from Defi Dave from Cap Money, which is one of the cooler, I think Defi app projects that has released in recent memory. It's similar to Athena in a way in which an external yield source flows back into growing the supply of a collateralized stablecoin. But unlike Athena, the yield opportunity is open ended whereas Athena is just like the basis trade which is a very good trade, but it's just one single possible trade. Cap Money is an open ended possibility. It could be anything. And so Defi Dave walks me through how the protocol works and then we dive into the nuances and the details afterwards. So here we go. Let me start with asking the big question. What is Cap Money? You are part of a startup called Cap built on Mega Eth, part of the Mega Mafia. Tell me about it. What's its deal?

[Defi Dave]

Yes, so Cap, we are a stable coin but built on Ethereum and we are backed by your standard reserved collateral. So usdc, pyusd and we basically use Reef stakers. So re stakers like Etherfi, Renzo and we and they basically allocate the collateral to different yield generators. And think of these as market makers, proprietary trading firms, and they generate on yield for on behalf of the protocol. So I think the history of stablecoins and I've been in this industry for eight years, stablecoins for five years we've seen this kind of trend from stablecoins from experimentation to now coming to TRADFI and Wall Street. And I think it has gone from oh, let's make the most decentralized stablecoin ever to like, oh wait, we need to make a stablecoin that is first of all safe for users and consistently generates yield. And so cap, we're a team of defi veterans. Like I contributed to frax, I was a part of Genera Redacted. I've been in this industry for a while. Our founders from Qidao who built a stablecoin, we have all the beefy finance devs. So we've seen a lot of shit. We've seen deeps, we've seen bridge hacks, we've seen it all. And we were like, we need to make a stablecoin that actually can scale to millions, if not billions of users. And so with cap, we basically thought of this three prong marketplace on how the whole cap system works. And so you have users that mints our stablecoin cusd and they minted, like I said, usdc, pyusd, soon, Benji Biddle, all that fun stuff. We have our operators who are yield generators and these are regulated Wall street firms. So think IMC Trading, Susquehanna, Crypto, Amber Group, Flow traders, all that. And then we have re stakers and re stakers basically guarantee and underwrite the entire protocol. And so how it works is the operators and rest takers so come to some sort of an agreement off chain, the operators will go and say like, hey, this is who we are, this is our strategy, this is our reputation. We the rest takers, they'll go do their due diligence. They'll, you know, they'll make sure that, you know, everything's kosher. And then once they feel comfortable, they'll be like, okay, we will delegate our restake capital to you. And that is like, you know, your locked E, your lrts, all that fun stuff. So they delegate that to the operator and that access collateral for the operator to access the cap protocol. So then the operator, they have the delegation, they access the protocol, they access the usdc, py, USD, all that stuff. And they go out and they do that strategy. So that strategy could be on chain, off chain, its own proprietary strategy. We don't know what it is.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Open ended, Open ended.

[Defi Dave]

Strategy open ended. Exactly. And then they, then they go back, they pay back the protocol and the users, they pay premium fees to the rest taker. And here's the kicker, David. All the capital that they keep, they make for themselves. So they basically have a way to grow their book at no cost of capital, which is to any yield generator and operator. That's music to their ears, that's all they want to hear. So they love it for that reason. Rest takers love it because turns out the PMF for restaking is yield. They have a consistent way to generate yield for their restaked capital. And then users love it for two reasons. One, they're 100% protected from downside risk because remember, because of the rest taker they delegate to the operator and the operator were to mess up in any way because that does happen, it's the risk taker, they get slashed and the capital that gets slashed gets sold into the. Whatever the stable collateral is to back the protocol.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Restaker puts up the capital, also takes the risk, also gets some reward. Yeah, and then, and, and then the user, the stablecoin holder, which is the user in the system, is protected.

[Defi Dave]

Exactly. So instead of the user holding the bag, which we've seen all too often, it's the rest taker taking the risk and getting rewarded for it on behalf of the user. So users are a hundred percent protected from downside risk. And the second reason is I like to call cap, the infinite canvas for yield. So instead of just, you know, one strategy, which, you know, many of these stablecoins out today, they're really just glorified tokenized hedge funds. Let's be real, it's like one strategy. They're doing one thing, it's the team deciding it. And that can only scale so much. But with cap, you have different operators competing to beat the hurdle rate. And maybe some of them are better in a bull market, some are better in a bear market. Maybe some of them have an opportunity they see for a day, a week, a month, a longer, it doesn't matter. But they can basically plug in and out of the system how they see feet, fit, where they see opportunities. And in this method, this pro, this cap, can scale infinitely greater than any stablecoin before. It's really the first of its kind. Stablecoin. We actually wrote about this and if you go on our blog and this is actually published in Stanford Crypto, type 3 stablecoins. Cap is the first type 3 stablecoin, which is basically what I just described.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Okay, so there was a lot there. Yeah, I think you kind of just did a broad stroke of the whole project.

[Defi Dave]

Yeah.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Now I kind of want to go back through and let's zoom in on each of these individual components. Maybe let's just kind of start with that open ended yield conversation. All right, Bankless listeners, I hope you enjoyed the bits of content that you heard just now. While Bankless is the number one podcast in crypto, I am working hard to make the Bankless premium feed the number two podcast in crypto. So if you want access to all of these full episodes and all of the future ones, or you just enjoyed the no ad experience and you want the Bankless that you already know and love just ad free, there is a link in the show notes for you to get access. And then when you do become a Bankless citizen, make sure you hop into the Bankless Citizen Discord Channel and just come hang out with me, Ryan, the rest of the Bankless team, and everyone else on the Bankless journey with us. So see you there, Sam.