Bankless Podcast Summary
Episode: ROLLUP: ETH Hits All Time High, But Will It Stick?
Date: September 5, 2025
Hosts: Ryan Sean Adams (A), David Hoffman (B)
Theme: The state of crypto finance as ETH hits new highs, dissecting institutional flows, market psychology, major news, and the evolving intersection of DeFi, tokenized assets, and regulatory clarity.
1. Episode Overview
This episode opens with ETH’s recent all-time high—reached during David’s time off at Burning Man—and a wide-ranging discussion about what’s fueling and challenging this price action. The hosts break down institutional accumulation, treasuries’ strategic buying, and key market indicators, while diving into macro trends like tokenized real-world assets, meme coins, and the regulatory path for crypto trading on traditional exchanges. There's a healthy dose of personal anecdotes about Burning Man, institutional moves in DeFi, and the mounting convergence of TradFi and crypto.
2. Key Highlights and Discussion Points
A. Burning Man, ETH All-Time High, and Personal Insights
- [00:00–04:08]
- David was at Burning Man as ETH reached its ATH, with little access to news or price feeds.
- David describes Burning Man as “tribalistic,” fostering deep social bonds and teamwork reminiscent of pre-digital humanity.
- Quote [03:06 | B]:
"The cool thing about Burning Man is it's very tribalistic... You're living with a group of 50–100 people. You're making decisions together, eating together, doing work together. It's the most primal, ancestral experience—how we were meant to live."
- Quote [03:06 | B]:
- Burning Man and crypto share overlapping ethos and communities.
B. Institutional Accumulation & ETH Treasuries
- [04:13–09:19]
- Ethereum treasuries have been accumulating aggressive amounts of ETH in the last 90 days.
- M-NAV (Market Net Asset Value) for these treasuries has fallen below 1, signaling a pause in aggressive buying moves.
- Major buyers include Bitmine (Tom Lee-affiliated), Ether Machine, and Sharplink Gaming.
- Quote [19:29 | A]:
"ETH has just led...it has dominated for the past three months. In August, it's all blue [on ETF net inflows]."
C. The “Tom Lee Thesis” – Bullish Ethereum Price Targets
- [10:09–14:34]
- Tom Lee’s analysis draws on Wyckoff accumulation and ETH/BTC ratios to forecast potential new highs for ETH.
- Baseline: If ETH/BTC returns to prior ATH and BTC hits $250,000, ETH could reach $12k to $22k.
- Moonshot: If ETH replaces current payment rails, value could reach $60k+ per ETH.
- Quote [14:02 | C - Tom Lee]:
"If you look at the replacement cost of payment rails and the banking system, that gets you to an implied value of ethereum of around 60,000. And that puts the ratio at roughly 0.25 ETH to BTC."
- Hosts discuss the realism of these targets and the supportive on-chain accumulation data.
- Tom Lee’s analysis draws on Wyckoff accumulation and ETH/BTC ratios to forecast potential new highs for ETH.
D. Market Sentiment: Seasonality vs. Superstition
- [07:28–09:19]
- September is generally a weak month for crypto returns ("Downtember"), but some see this as superstition rather than a real trend.
- Quote [07:47 | A]:
"They always say that. They say that 'down-timber'... but Septembers have always been bad for some reason, allegedly."
- Quote [07:47 | A]:
- Some, like Vance Spencer, call this thinking a farce: just be long-term bullish.
- September is generally a weak month for crypto returns ("Downtember"), but some see this as superstition rather than a real trend.
E. The “ETH Treasuries” Meta, M-NAV, and DeFi Implications
- [21:03–26:57]
- Bitmine leads in treasury size; Ether Machine prepping for a NASDAQ listing.
- Asian institutions (e.g., Jack Ma-affiliated Young Fang Financial Group) have joined the strategic ETH-buy narrative.
- Discussion on the oscillating nature of M-NAV and its use as a "sentiment checker."
- Treasury companies are hunting for yield: moves into protocols like Ether Fi and Lido’s new blue chip yield products.
- Quote [25:39 | B]:
"That's why Ethereum is so cool.... you can buy the asset and recirculate it into the economy that supports the asset."
- Quote [25:39 | B]:
F. New TradFi–Crypto Bridges: Real Assets, Stock Listings, and Regulation
- [28:55–42:27]
- Nasdaq is tightening scrutiny over DATs (Digital Asset Treasuries) amid a bubble and introduces new disclosure rules.
- World Liberty Financial (WLFI), Trump-branded, begins trading, with a $5B+ market cap and real world asset connections (stablecoin, governance, lending proposals).
- U.S. TradFi exchanges may soon list spot BTC and ETH directly—a significant regulatory signal:
- Quote [40:28 | A]:
"The CFTC and the SEC issued a joint statement... seeking proposals for large exchanges to list assets like spot Bitcoin or spot ETH on NYSE, NASDAQ, and CBOE."
- Quote [40:28 | A]:
- Skepticism about its immediate practical impact, but seen as a sign of TradFi/Crypto convergence.
G. Tokenized Securities Evolution: Ethereum & Solana
- [50:05–55:08]
- Ondo launches tokenized stock/ETF infrastructure using an intent-based model on Ethereum—improving over synthetic X-stocks.
- Galaxy tokenizes its real shares on Solana via Superstate, representing a step toward true native securities on-chain.
- Quote [53:06 | B]:
"You get a native security, not an IOU, but the actual stock on-chain, which is pretty damn cool."
- Quote [53:06 | B]:
- Discussion about the bootstrapping challenge of liquidity in these markets, importance for crypto-native firms, and the vision for DeFi composability.
H. U.S. Regulatory Progress: Polymarket’s Green Light
- [55:08–58:36]
- Polymarket receives a no-action letter from the CFTC, allowing direct U.S. access—seen as legitimizing prediction markets.
- Colorful rivalry between Polymarket and Kalshi highlighted by industry insiders and Twitter drama.
- Quote [55:14 | B]:
"We can all take down our VPNs now. U.S. citizens can now access Polymarket directly. This is huge, just for assurances and sentiment."
- Quote [55:14 | B]:
I. Meme Coin Political Wars & Tokenized Culture
- [32:44–37:42 | 58:39–60:14]
- Trump's family (Eric, Jr.) dominates financial headlines with WLFI, American Bitcoin, and more—crypto becomes a key pillar of Trump’s net worth.
- Gavin Newsom proposes his own meme coin, but is largely dismissed as unserious by the hosts.
- Democrat/Republican meme coin wars may muddy the prospects for bipartisan crypto regulation.
- Tokenized Pokemon cards (via Collector Crypt) are now a hot meta—real-world collectables bridged on-chain.
- Quote [59:24 | B]:
"It's a real world asset tokenized by this one project...You can buy a Pokemon pack, open it, maybe get a Charizard, and sell it on chain."
- Quote [59:24 | B]:
3. Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
- On Burning Man’s Resonance with Crypto:
"People joke at Burning Man that Burning Man is the real world and the world that we're currently in is the default world." [03:52 | B]
- On ETH Accumulation:
"Bitmine has done in 60 days what took MicroStrategy years to do in terms of percent of supply." [20:51 | A]
- On Seasonality:
"Sell in May and go away... September is bad, October is bad. Vance [Spencer] saying, this whole seasonality thing is a farce. Just be long." [08:58 | B]
- On Meme Coin Rivalries:
"You're going up against Trump. You're not going to out-meme that man." [37:24 | B]
4. Timestamps for Key Segments
| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | David returns from Burning Man, ETH hits ATH | | 03:06 | Parallels between Burning Man tribal culture & crypto ethos | | 09:33 | ETH price update, seasonality skepticism, "hopium" from Tom Lee | | 10:58 | Tom Lee’s price analysis and bull case for ETH | | 19:29 | Institutional accumulation: ETH ETF flows & treasuries | | 21:03 | Bitmine, Ether Machine, Asian institutional ETH moves | | 23:56 | MNAV mechanics, retail sentiment, DeFi echo boom | | 28:55 | NASDAQ DAT regulation, World Liberty Financial (Trump coin) | | 40:28 | TradFi exchanges to list spot BTC/ETH, regulatory joint statement | | 50:05 | Ondo tokenizes stocks/ETFs on Ethereum; liquidity innovation | | 53:06 | Galaxy launches native stock token on Solana | | 55:08 | Polymarket gets U.S. CFTC blessing; prediction market drama | | 58:39 | Meme coin wars, Trump vs. Newsom, tokenized Pokemon | | 60:22 | Borrow in DeFi using your real-world credit score |
5. Episode Flow & Tone
The episode is fast-paced, blending technical and market insights with banter, irreverent humor, and some skepticism of headlines and hype. The hosts maintain a bullish, curiosity-driven stance, focusing on both what’s working (institutional flows, on-chain innovation, regulatory clarity) and latent risks (overbought treasuries, meme coin politicization, liquidity bootstrapping for DeFi assets).
6. Concluding Thoughts
ETH’s new highs are underpinned by a wave of institutional participation, emerging on-chain products, and growing traditional-crypto market convergence. Political memes and tokenized culture are hot narratives, but not without their drawbacks. Regulatory and infrastructure moves promise deeper liquidity and market maturity. The Bankless hosts remain steadfastly optimistic, urging listeners to participate and observe a rapidly professionalizing, but ever-volatile crypto frontier.
Closing Reminder:
"Crypto is risky. You lose what you put in. But we're headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey." [61:55 | A]