Bankless Podcast Summary
Episode: The Private World Computer | Aztec Co-Founders Zac Williamson & Joe Andrews
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Ryan Sean Adams
Guests: Zac Williamson & Joe Andrews, Co-Founders of Aztec
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the launch and vision of Aztec, a privacy-focused Layer 2 (L2) network for Ethereum. Host Ryan Sean Adams welcomes Aztec’s co-founders, Zac Williamson and Joe Andrews, to explore the state of privacy on Ethereum and how Aztec is seeking to deliver programmable privacy and identity natively within the Ethereum ecosystem. The conversation covers technological breakthroughs, real-world applications, regulatory uncertainties, and the cypherpunk ethos behind Aztec’s multi-year journey.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The State of Privacy on Ethereum – 2025 (06:47)
- Lack of Private Transactions: Zac emphasizes that despite growing recognition of privacy as a core value, Ethereum remains fundamentally transparent—everyone can observe every transaction, address, and contract call.
- Existing Efforts & Limitations: Protocols like Railgun and historical products like Tornado Cash exist, but mainstream, programmable privacy remains unsolved. The difficulty lies in combining strong privacy with composability and programmability.
- Hard Tech Problems: Zac points out the hardest problem they've tackled: ensuring smart contract privacy without sacrificing developer and user experience.
Quote:
"The quality of privacy that you have today versus five years ago. Not a huge amount has changed to be honest. ... Ethereum is still a completely transparent network."
— Zac, [06:47]
What is ZK Passport? The Future of Private Identity (13:16–19:35)
- Deepfake Threats to KYC/AML: Ryan raises concerns about AI deepfakes undermining traditional identity verification methods.
- How ZK Passport Works:
- Leverages the NFC chips and cryptographic signatures embedded in modern e-passports.
- User’s phone reads the chip, verifies its validity, and generates a zero-knowledge proof attesting to facts (like not being sanctioned) without revealing underlying data.
- Liveness check ensures the user matches their passport face via secure enclave on the device; all sensitive data stays on the device.
- Regulatory Adoption: Swiss regulators approved ZK Passport as valid for sanctions checks in Aztec’s token sale.
- Applications: Can be used for token sales, DeFi compliance, and beyond—without forcing users to publicly reveal their government ID information.
Quote:
"Ethereum is now an E gate for transactions and with the same security as you have to enter the US or the UK or any kind of country, we can now get the same attestation that you're not on a sanctions list or you're from a certain country."
— Joe, [15:20]
Privacy & Identity—The Holistic Approach (22:08–29:41)
- Aztec's Vision of Identity:
- Identity should be “bottom-up”—any developer or application can define and issue credentials, creating a decentralized, composable “web of attestations” (e.g., Twitter followers, email proofs).
- All proofs are ZK: Credentials are verified and combined without leaking user data on-chain.
- Why Not on L1 Ethereum?
- Privacy solutions on Ethereum require custom ZK circuits and tooling for every application, making composability nearly impossible.
- Aztec enables contracts to call and compose with any other private smart contract in a single, atomic transaction.
- Programmable Privacy as the 'Holy Grail':
- The Aztec chain aims to bring Turing-complete programmability with default privacy.
- The technical breakthrough: allowing arbitrary, composable, private smart contracts.
Quote:
"What we want to do in Aztec is the complete opposite [of centralized identity]. ... You can create meta credentials ... issued by hundreds of different counterparties, so you have a fully genuine, decentralized, permissionless network that can provide strong identity, strong privacy benefits."
— Zac, [24:41]
Private Intents and Composability—Blanketing Ethereum with Privacy (31:16–44:25)
- Private Layer 2, Not a Silo: Aztec’s intent-based design allows users to privately interact with DeFi on any chain (e.g., swap ETH for USDC on Base or Arbitrum) with privacy guarantees—without needing to port all of DeFi protocols to Aztec.
- Bridge as Privacy Gateway:
- User can bridge ETH to Aztec, compose a private trade across chains, and bridge out—all with ZK privacy.
- Aztec acts as a “privacy layer” for intents/actions performed on all of Ethereum and its L2s.
- No Need to Rebuild All Defi in Aztec: Unlike other L2s, Aztec can provide privacy for flows that eventually settle elsewhere, avoiding fragmented liquidity and duplicated protocols.
- UX & Fees: Some fees and minor delays exist (one Aztec block + one destination chain block), but the design aims for seamless user flows and wallet integration.
Quote:
"The entire Ethereum ecosystem, all the layer twos, all of the DeFi protocols ... can, using private intents, basically tap into Aztec privacy on demand, at request."
— Ryan, [41:32]
Launching Aztec: Ignition Chain, Decentralization, and Security (47:57–57:31)
- Phased Launch: The “Ignition Chain” is live for validators/sequencers to test, but user transactions are not yet enabled (gas limit set to zero). Audits and security milestones must be met first.
- Full Decentralization on Day One:
- Decentralized block production, proof generation, and governance from the outset (contrasting with most L2s’ gradual, staged decentralization).
- Anyone can run a validator/sequencer, and there’s no central fallback—the team cannot unilaterally intervene or “turn off” the network.
- Cautions at Launch:
- Early phase comes with risks: “We cannot guarantee it's secure … The only thing that really demonstrates a network is secure is time in production." (Zac, [56:10])
- Generous bug bounties and staged roll-out to mitigate risk to users and funds.
Quote:
"Privacy just shouldn't be owned by anyone. ... We want to make sure that when this amazing kind of privacy comes to Ethereum, it's not controlled by one entity."
— Joe, [53:10]
Applications—Native Private Smart Contracts & Use Cases (69:16–73:55)
- Non-EVM, Noir-Based Architecture:
- Native applications are written in Aztec’s purpose-built Rust-like language, Noir, to reflect private execution semantics.
- Native Use Cases:
- Dark pools, OTC desks, novel DEX designs that require privacy.
- Under-collateralized lending and consumer finance powered by private, composable credentials (e.g., proof of income without revealing sensitive details).
- Games and novel identity mechanisms.
- Selective Disclosure: Users can selectively reveal transaction details—such as for compliance—if needed.
Quote:
"The types of applications we're seeing that require privacy, they can't exist on other chains. ... Under-collateralized lending ... is the one I'm most excited about."
— Joe, [71:23]
Regulation, Risks, and the Cypherpunk Ethos (78:05–85:46)
- Historical Context: Aztec’s team sees the fight for on-chain privacy as a continuation of the "SSL wars"—encrypting the internet over the objections of governments.
- Approach to Regulation:
- Privacy on chain should be a “neutral” infrastructure, with compliance happening at the application level.
- App developers can use Aztec’s tools to implement any compliance required.
- No Illusions about Political Risks: Zac is candid that opposition may come not from misunderstanding but from incumbent interests:
- "I'm actually worried that regulators do understand what we're building and they come after us. ... there are dark precedents ... but the first trusted environment that actually embraces this is going to generate so much economic advantage that the others will have to fall in line."
[82:12 & 84:15]
- "I'm actually worried that regulators do understand what we're building and they come after us. ... there are dark precedents ... but the first trusted environment that actually embraces this is going to generate so much economic advantage that the others will have to fall in line."
- Cypherpunk Motivation: Both founders remain steadfast in their commitment—privacy as a moral imperative for global financial systems.
Community Participation: Token Sale & Running a Node (89:27–93:56)
- Token Sale Model:
- Partnered with Uniswap for a "continuous clearing auction" to foster fair distribution and price discovery.
- Participation possible via ZK Passport or traditional KYC.
- Tokens are ERC20s on Ethereum mainnet.
- Staking/Sequencing:
- 200k tokens needed to run a validator/sequencer.
- Home staking supported; delegation available.
- Incentives: Launch designed to maximize decentralization and meaningful, community-driven governance from the start.
Memorable Quotes & Moments
- "The private world computer, bringing privacy to all of Ethereum." — Ryan, [35:12]
- "Privacy is eating the world. ... Everything needs it now, more than ever." — Joe & Zac, [19:03]
- "What else is there? ... This is the opportunity of a lifetime. I wouldn't trade it for anything." — Zac, on enduring multi-year grind, [87:09]
- "Crypto without privacy is actually a scary proposition." — Ryan, [89:27]
Important Timestamps
- 03:39 – Aztec Co-founders join, discuss 5-year journey
- 06:47 – State of privacy on Ethereum, 2025
- 13:16 – ZK Passport explanation and workflow
- 22:08 – Decentralized, programmable identity and credentials
- 29:41 – Why programmable privacy is uniquely hard
- 41:32 – Private intents & privacy blanket for all Ethereum L2/DeFi
- 47:57 – Status and significance of the Ignition Chain launch
- 53:10 – Full decentralization at launch—what it means for privacy protocols
- 57:31 – Why phased rollout, security, and user risk matters
- 69:16 – Native Aztec apps, under-collateralized lending, gaming, and more
- 78:05 – Regulatory climate, risks, and cypherpunk courage
- 89:27 – Long-term motivation, involvement, and token sale instructions
Conclusion
Aztec represents perhaps the most ambitious, principled effort to bring robust, programmable privacy (and identity) to Ethereum since the cypherpunk heyday of crypto. The chain’s novel architecture—full stack ZK, bottom-up decentralized identity, and intent-based private interactions with Ethereum—marks a significant leap in privacy technology, paired with an equally radical commitment to decentralization from day one. The project’s values, engineering rigor, and perseverance stand out in a landscape crowded with short-termism and regulatory headwinds.
Listen if you want to know:
- Why privacy matters in finance and society
- How programmable privacy and identity could redefine what is possible on Ethereum and beyond
- How “private intents” can blanket all of DeFi with privacy—without forking or duplicating protocols
- Why Aztec chose to launch as a fully decentralized protocol, and the risks involved
- What motivates real cypherpunks to keep building
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