Why Pro Athletes Are Betting on Bitcoin, Crypto & Prediction Markets | Tristan Thompson & Paul Grewal

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Bankless
Episode: Why Pro Athletes Are Betting on Bitcoin, Crypto & Prediction Markets | Tristan Thompson & Paul Grewal
Release Date: October 27, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Bankless brings together two unique voices: NBA pro athlete and outspoken crypto advocate Tristan Thompson, and Paul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer of Coinbase. Together with hosts Ryan Sean Adams and David Hoffman, they explore the intersections of sports, crypto, DeFi, and prediction markets. The discussion ranges from why professional athletes are drawn to cryptocurrencies, to the challenges and victories of shaping legislation in Washington, to the rise of prediction markets and tokenized fantasy sports platforms.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Athlete’s Perspective – Why Crypto?

• Adrenaline and Ownership: Tristan Thompson compares the thrill of crypto to playing in high-stakes basketball games, citing how the space gives “the same adrenaline rush” as an NBA Finals Game 7.
  • “It gives me the same adrenaline rush that I did or had for like a Game 7 in NBA Finals. That’s what crypto gives me.” (Tristan Thompson, 00:00)
• Control Over Finances: Many athletes come from underprivileged backgrounds, thrust into sudden wealth with little knowledge of whom to trust. Crypto offers personal agency and trustless finance, as opposed to relying on potentially self-interested financial advisors.
  • “The financial industry is the only sector in the world where you… are trusting a complete stranger and giving them that much control… So I think that kind of motivated athletes to say, hey, let me take more ownership into my finance.” (Tristan Thompson, 09:16)
• Diversification & Education: Thompson encourages athletes (and listeners) to diversify their portfolios with crypto and take education seriously. He mentors peers on entering the space with an emphasis on risk assessment and hands-on learning.
  • “Nothing will make me more happy than a guy stopping me at dinner or lunch and saying, ‘Tristan, you know that advice you told me… I was able to take care of my brother and his kids.’” (Tristan Thompson, 14:07)

2. Crypto, DeFi, and Yield: Legal and Regulatory Battles

• The ‘Genius Bill’ and Stablecoin Yields: Paul Grewal explains recent legislative wins that allow exchanges and DeFi protocols to offer yield on stablecoins; he details ongoing attempts by the traditional banking lobby to roll back these consumer-friendly reforms.
  • “It’s important for us to all call out this anti-consumer, anti-customer behavior for what it is and to preserve people’s ability to earn rewards on their stablecoins.” (Paul Grewal, 17:35)
• The Ongoing Rivalry: Team Crypto vs. Team Banks: Crypto advocates have made headway in DC, but traditional banking interests remain entrenched. The fight is ongoing, and users must stay vigilant.
  • “The big banks are formidable. We have to respect their prowess and skill. And they’re not just going to sit back and take this lying down.” (Paul Grewal, 19:54)
• Regulation Woes in New York: New York’s slow pace in adopting crypto-friendly regulations, despite being a financial hub, is attributed to a heavy burden on regulators and resource limitations.
  • “In situations like this, you have to just exhibit a bit of grace and patience… patience is rewarded.” (Paul Grewal, 31:46)

3. How Do Athletes Actually Use Crypto?

• From Cautious Allocations to DeFi Exploration:
  • Rookies: Start small, using funds for “miscellaneous and leisure” as seed capital to buy ETH, BTC, or other assets and learn the ropes.
  • Veterans: Approach depends on risk appetite; recommendations range from conservative yield farming to riskier perpetual and leverage trading.
• Hands-On Learning: Thompson stresses the value of practical, tailored education. He personally tutors friends and teammates, demystifying DeFi, wallets, and swaps by using real-world explanations and live demonstrations.
  • “I even have guys that will call me and I’ll just go on Google Meets and share my screen and show them how to get in and out of pools… and go about that.” (Tristan Thompson, 27:14)
• Team Mentality and Full-Spectrum Involvement: Tristan draws a sports analogy for the crypto space, highlighting the importance of every participant – from builders and legislators to degens – in pushing Web3 forward.
  • “It’s a team, right? Our goal at the end of the day is to elevate this digital, financial, digital freedom and everyone plays a significant role.” (Tristan Thompson, 21:40)

4. Prediction Markets & Tokenized Sports

• Why Prediction Markets are Gaining Traction:
  • Paul Grewal acknowledges Coinbase is paying close attention as platforms like Kalshi and Polymarket flourish, stressing the value of decentralized information aggregation over mere betting.
    • “It’s much more about distributing information and making instantly available globally information that used to only… be in the hands of a couple people.” (Paul Grewal, 36:52)
  • Tristan sees prediction markets as communal empowerment, with the ability to disrupt legacy institutions and mainstream media by crowd-sourcing sentiment and knowledge.
    • “What I love more is that it’s empowering communities… prediction markets are becoming disruptors to CNN, Fox News, the BBC, the Al Jazeeras.” (Tristan Thompson, 38:15)
• Sports Betting vs. Prediction Markets: Prediction markets are seen as a rising challenge to traditional sportsbooks like FanDuel and DraftKings, offering peer-to-peer engagement and real-time, community-driven insights.
  • “I truly believe that, you know, prediction markets will essentially have a high chance of taking over these sportsbooks.” (Tristan Thompson, 41:24)
• Regulatory Battlefront: The regulatory turf war continues, with the CFTC holding federal jurisdiction but ongoing challenges from state gaming commissions. Grewal expects time and popular support are on the side of prediction markets.
  • “Time is on the side of prediction markets. I think the law is absolutely on their side.” (Paul Grewal, 45:50)

5. Building for the Future: Tristan’s ‘Basketball Fun’

• App Overview: Tristan’s new crypto platform, Basketball Fun, tokenizes NBA players, transforming them into tradable digital assets whose value is determined by fans, performance, and cultural relevance.
  • “Every player is basically a meme token. And you’re able to buy, sell and trade players based on their performance… or popularity, sentiment, their value.” (Tristan Thompson, 51:00)
• Nostalgia Meets Web3: The platform incorporates collectible elements, allowing users to buy player “packs” reminiscent of trading cards, combining sports fandom, speculation, and on-chain technology. Launch is slated for opening week of the NBA season, October 22.
  • “We want to give that nostalgic moment… when our parents would take us on the weekend to go open a trading card pack and we’d get excited.” (Tristan Thompson, 50:57)

6. Governance & Accountability

• SEC Controversy: Paul Grewal discusses the destruction of key records under Gary Gensler’s term at the SEC and emphasizes the importance of transparency and oversight.
  • “There is zero question that Gary Gensler’s tax records, the SEC, were destroyed… all sorts of records were deleted and destroyed despite those orders to protect… The best way you can make sure something doesn’t happen again is to shine a big, bright light on what happened in the past.” (Paul Grewal, 55:20, 56:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tristan Thompson, on Crypto’s Appeal:

  • “For me, it’s important. Every morning, I’m on CT and I’m staying up to date with the culture because one thing about this space, the trend is always changing and it’s moving very fast…” (Tristan Thompson, 21:41)

• Paul Grewal, On the Importance of Inclusion:

  • “Are we enacting standards and adopting rules that serve people’s interests, serve regular people’s interests, or are we simply cutting deals for the traditional financial service providers to maintain their influence?” (Paul Grewal, 20:03)

• Tristan Thompson, on Prediction Markets:

  • “We’re becoming disruptors in the space, but being disruptors because we know what’s out there that could be better and improved.” (Tristan Thompson, 38:15)

• Paul Grewal, on SEC Record Deletion:

  • “…these are the functional officials who are appointed and elected to represent and serve us who were doing these things in our name… Real people got hurt in real ways.” (Paul Grewal, 58:27)

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:00 – Tristan on his passion for Web3; opening introductions.
• 01:11 – Paul Grewal's sports background and NBA fandom.
• 04:16 – David asks why athletes are drawn to Bitcoin; historical stories of athletes being paid in BTC.
• 09:16 – Tristan: Sudden wealth, trust issues, and the need for financial independence.
• 12:08 – Advice for rookies vs. veterans; peer mentorship in athlete circles.
• 14:59 – DeFi and stablecoin yield; Paul on regulatory battles around the "Genius Bill."
• 21:39 – “Crypto character class” discussion; Tristan on the importance of being well-versed.
• 25:33 – Tristan’s favorite DeFi and trading activities; portfolio management perspective.
• 27:14 – Education and onboarding: Tristan’s approach to teaching peers.
• 30:30 – Paul on New York regulation and long-term patience with institutions.
• 35:21 – Prediction market landscape and Coinbase’s perspective.
• 36:52 – The real value of prediction markets: information distribution.
• 38:15 – Prediction markets as disruptors to legacy media.
• 41:24 – Younger generations’ shift to community markets over traditional sportsbooks.
• 44:17 – Regulatory and legal landscape for prediction markets.
• 49:58 – Tristan describes ‘Basketball Fun,’ the tokenized NBA fantasy app.
• 55:05 – SEC/Gary Gensler’s deleted texts and Coinbase’s quest for transparency.
• 58:09 – Reflections on regulatory trolling vs. illegal action.

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is optimistic, energetic, and at times combative—with a shared sense of mission for making crypto, DeFi, and Web3 more accessible and fair. Thompson’s athlete’s drive and peer-to-peer mentorship complement Grewal’s deep legal expertise and strategic perspective. From high-level regulation to the hands-on hustle of teaching friends to use DeFi, the episode captures the multilevel movement toward broader, more inclusive crypto adoption.

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Further Listening/Resources

• Basketball Fun app (launching Oct 22)
• Coinbase's regulatory updates
• Polymarket & prediction market tools

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This summary covers all main content from the episode while skipping ads, intros, and outros, and preserves the original tone and insights.

Transcript

[Tristan Thompson]

If I'm going to do something, I'm going to be two feet in, and I've chose to do that in Web three and Crypto because I get an excitement. It gives me the same adrenaline rush that I did or that I had for like, a Game 7 in NBA Finals. That's what. That's what crypto gives me. That. That burning sensation inside.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Bankless Nation. Very excited for this episode. We have lawyer Paul Greywell and NBA pro athlete Tristan Thompson on Bankless. Today we got law and basketball, and the thing that unites both these guests, I think, is crypto. We'll get into that. Welcome to Bankless, guys.

[Tristan Thompson]

Appreciate having us. Excited to be here.

[Paul Grewal]

Thanks for having me.

[Tristan Thompson]

Paul, how's it going, man?

[Paul Grewal]

Going well. How are you, sir?

[Tristan Thompson]

I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. You're holding up the coffee shop meetings and all this stuff, man. It's a change of pace for you.

[Paul Grewal]

It is a bit of a change of pace, but I'm most excited about our Cavs. You know, they're looking good this fall. They're looking really good.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Guys, we actually have to get into this. So, Paul, you are the chief legal officer of Coinbase. Tristan, you're an NBA athlete. This is an interesting combination for a podcast episode. How do you guys know each other? Paul, are you just, like, a Cavs fan? Is that. Is that what happens? And Tristan, you're a crypto fan.

[Paul Grewal]

I'm a Cavs fan for sure. Been rooting for Cleveland going back now 40 plus years. My heroes were guys like Ron Harper, Brad Dougherty, Sean Kemp, and now Tristan Thompson. And so when I saw Tristan. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Much respect to what, Tristan, you, you and you and that team in 2016 were able to pull off for us. Much respect, but I. Paul, are you from Ohio?

[Tristan Thompson]

Are you from Ohio?

[Paul Grewal]

Born and raised in Northeast Ohio. So. So Akron. Went to LeBron's rival high school.

[Tristan Thompson]

Okay. Okay.

[Paul Grewal]

So I've been following. I've been following. I've been following the travails, the cast for many years, but obviously when I saw Tristan, you know, take such a prominent role and start giving prominent voice on all topics crypto, I thought, you know, if I ever had the chance to chat with him, I'd have to take advantage of that. Thought you. We thought we'd take advantage of that opportunity today.

[Tristan Thompson]

Yeah, no, most definitely. I mean, you know what I start to realize, especially being in the space, how many people in the Web3 crypto space, you know, love basketball. I think it's such a, you know, the way I look at sports right now, it's, it's an entertainment, but it's almost a way to kind of bring different worlds together and have that unity and, and it's an excitement. Right. I think the same way where people get excited when the charts are pumping is the same way you guys are excited when you see a fast break dunk or a guy get a major poster or making a game winning three. Right. It's all the same type of adrenaline rush, 100%.

[Paul Grewal]

And it's also global. Right. Like everywhere, all over the world, people want to be a part of it. And so, yeah, I think the overlap is really, really strong.

[Tristan Thompson]

Yeah.

[David Hoffman]

You know, Tristan, it's not often that we have pro athletes on bankless. As the Bankless listenership will know. Ryan and I are just massive sports fans. Every single sport. And I'm totally kidding. My, my heart got ripped out of my soul when it comes to NBA when the Sonics got traded to OKC back when I was a child. And I unfortunately haven't. Haven't watched too much basketball since. But I do know that a lot of pro sport athletes love getting paid in bitcoin. And now there's like a series of just history of, of some pro sports athletes just talking about this. And I kind of want to ask from your perspective why this is true. This is Russell Ng, who tweeted out in 2019, Pay me, pay me in bitcoin. And so the history, the lore behind this is like he had like a $13 million contract that from the Panthers, and he demanded that half of that be paid in bitcoin price at the time of the contract. And that bitcoin price was $22,000. And when he was finally paid, bitcoin was ended up being traded at $88,000. So his $6 million got turned into 20 million. But there's. This is not just one story. This is not just the only story about, you know, pro athletes falling in love with crypto. There's Sean Culkin, Aaron Rogers, Odell Beckham Jr. Klay Thompson. There's just a collection of people who like, decided to get paid out in their contracts with bitcoin. We won't talk about Tom Brady, but it goes even further than that. There's like pro sport athletes that have gotten endorsements with crypto. But over the years, just, I've just noticed a particularly strong resonance between pro athletes and, and crypto. Why do you think that is?

[Tristan Thompson]

I think that this is the Reality, I think the, the way you can explain it and if your cousin or aunt or uncle asked, you know, why, why do they do that? Right. I think it's, it's, the reality is that this, you know, first of all, you give a lot of these guys a lot of credit by doing their homework and researching. But I think just from a, a very general perspective, it's, it's a, it's a form of just, you know, hedging your bet, but also looking at, and as an investment. Right. I think to get to the pro level, you have to invest in yourself. You got to believe in yourself. And I think that's why a lot of guys that are in pro sports always tend to put themselves in position of believing what the Runway can look like and what the opportunity is. So for guys like Russ Odell, Aaron Rodgers, even, even myself, you know, even now, just understanding the amazing technology that's built behind that. But the reality is that, you know, the gains and the potential earnings is far more greater than whatever these institutions can provide to you, whether it's on the money market or when they come and say, hey, we'll give you 4% a year and you should be, you should be licking our chops and thanking us so much for this. But it's like the reality is that there's so many other avenues, opportunities like taking, you know, putting your money in Bitcoin or, or that you can get way higher gains than, than, than one can even imagine.

[David Hoffman]

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[Tristan Thompson]

Yeah, there's definitely some correlation. I think the reality is this, right? Most athletes like myself, we come from underprivileged communities, we come from communities that don't have much Runway in terms of seeing what success looks like. And for us, you know, even for myself as an example, you know, I got to the MBA at the age of 19, did one year at university of Texas and went from having nothing to having millions of dollars. And the best way to put is like survivors remorse. Right. You know, once you make it, everyone from your neighborhood feels like they made it as well. So everyone's trying to pull and tug on you. And like you said, now these financial guys who you don't know that don't look anyone, don't look similar to anyone from your community is coming in and telling you, hey, trust me, give me your money and you shut your mouth and go play basketball. And I think it's crazy. This financial industry is the only industry in the world and the only sector in the world where you as an individual, when you make money, you are trusting a complete stranger and giving them that much control and Right, right. Like it's no different than me. I chose this shirt that I'm putting on today. No one told me to put this shirt on. You know, for your guys self, like your significant other. You chose the woman you wanted to marry your day, you chose the car you wanted to buy. You know, like the financial industry is the only industry where you have to trust a stranger. And I think because if you watch ESPN documents at 30 for 30 about athletes going broken, it's because you're trusting a complete stranger and you don't know where their heart is. So I think that kind of motivated athletes to say, hey, let me take more ownership into my finance, because we're making this for such a small window. Let me find out the tools and education where I can take my money and put into other, other, you know, financial institutions. And I think that's where bitcoin really became a star. Right. It became a star in its role, and it really helped athletes open their mind to say, hey, let me. Let me take. And I'm not. I'm not here to give financial advice like everyone's always says. But I say, I think you have to diversify your portfolio. Right. If you're just making, say, a million dollars, you should take a good portion of it and buy yourself, you know, whether it's either bitcoin, whatever those alternate be. Because you just never know what could happen on a rainy day with these financial advisors. Right. I think there's an article that just came out two days ago about Rashad Jones with the safety for the Miami Dolphins. He's suing Merrill lynch and he came with a settlement because that financial advisor stole money from him. Right. So those stories are what's kind of pushing the narrative right now for athletes to take more ownership in their finance.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Yeah. What portion would you say tradition of athletes are willing to do that or able to do that, or, like, what's necessary? Because it seems like it's super easy. As David says, you got a ton of financial advisors approaching you. You gotta be one of the few that says, look, look, I'm not gonna listen to this traditional advice. The guy in a suit coming to me and saying, hey, here are the safe assets to invest in. I'm going to learn, I'm going to educate myself, I'm going to figure out maybe what this crypto thing is and what percentage of my portfolio to allocate. What percentage of athletes are, like, able and willing to do that and what's their first step? Like, what do you recommend?

[Tristan Thompson]

Yeah, I think it varies, right? Because honestly, so many teammates, former teammates have called me literally for the last six to eight months asking me for this information, asking like, hey, I want to get into crypto. I have this. I have this extra liquidity. I have this money. I want it to work and do something because I don't truly believe where it's sitting right now is actually giving me the best returns or the best upside. So what I Say to guys is the advice that I'm gonna give a rookie is totally different than a guy I'm gonna give 10 years plus in the leagues, right? So for instance, with a rookie, right, you're in a rookie contract, of course you're gonna have to, you know, figure out, you know, what's your overhead going to look like. But I would say for rookies and the young guys, it's the money that you would spend for miscellaneous and leisure. Allocate some of that money to that, right? So if that's out of your total contract or your bi weekly paycheck, you, you set aside 10% of that for miscellaneous and leisure exposure. Take 5%, take half of that and go open yourself a wallet and go do your deep dive. Whether it's buying eth, whether it's buying Bitcoin, what's buying salon, xrp, do the education research and just save that, that money that you would spend at the nightclub, maybe a couple nights to going to nightclub, you're buying, you're buying, you know, a digital asset, right? Use that to start building up your honeycomb savings where you're in full control, where no one's getting a fee, no one's getting a cut and you're basically your own CEO. And I think when I tell guys that they feel that motivation because I think more than anything else, athletes want to start feeling like their own boss. That's why if you see like Lebron, you know, myself, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Maggie Johnson, right? We've all had this, this notion and this motivation to become our own boss because we see how these owners, how, how wealthy they become by taking, taking risk and, and, and, and believing in themselves. Why can't we not do that? A guy that's a more of a veteran that asked me these questions, a guy that's made over 100 millions of dollars, I say what's your risk appetite, right? Some guys like to go to Vegas and try to hit big. What's equivalent to Vegas and crypto is your perp trading and leverage trading, right? And it all depends on that. But I also tell guys like, also take your usdc, take your stable and put it in safe yield protocols where you're going to make it 8 to 12%, right? There's some, there's great protocols that are safe, that are backed by amazing founders that have the liquidity that you, you know, you're going to be protected as best as possible, right? It's all about diversifying. So that's what I tell guys. It's more based on your risk appetite. But I always, always preach to guys because, you know, I'm a big pay it forward type of guy. And that's kind of been my niche in NBA, especially as I got older. In this space and in the league where I want to set guys up for success, nothing will make me more happy than a guy stopping me at dinner or lunch and saying, you know, Tristan, you know that advice, you told me to go put it in a, you know, a moonwall USDC vault. I was able to, you know, take care of my brother and his kids where they didn't have to worry about where the next check's coming from. I gave him that financial freedom.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Let's talk about those USDC vaults for a second, actually, and I want to bring you into this conversation here, Paul, because one of the things, one of the benefits we've enjoyed in crypto and decentralized finance is yield. And we scored a big win under the genius bill and that was went through Congress this summer. And of course there is the ability for exchanges and even defi protocols to provide yield on stablecoins. So you could get up to 3 to 4% yield, sometimes higher in defi. My understanding is that the banks right now, the bank lobby, they want to take back on this. So they basically are saying something to the effect of, oops, we screwed up the bill that we negotiated in Congress. The genius bill had this thing that, you know, makes it such that we can no longer rent, seek and get yield ourselves. And we want to close this door. And they're actively trying to do that as part of market structure. Bill, you guys have been a bit on the offensive. Coinbase has in making sure that they don't get to close the ability of retail to get their interest, their yield and their rewards on things like stablecoins. Can you talk about that battle that you're having in D.C. right now and the shape of it?

[Paul Grewal]

Well, it's a really remarkable turn of events because it wasn't that long ago that when the Genius act was passed, when we finally had legislation on stablecoins, that we had a consensus, Democrats or Republicans alike supported the idea that customers were entitled to rewards, period, end stop, and that they shouldn't be denied some portion of the economic returns coming from those stable coins in the form of rewards. Here's the critical thing that really has me baffled. This was not some deal cut in some back room by a few politicians or with a couple of people from one industry or another. This was the result of a very Robust, comprehensive, complete conversation that involved all sorts of interests, including those of the big banks, because they were absolutely hell bent on keeping one privilege entirely for themselves, which was the ability to issue interest to their account holders. Issuers of stablecoins can't do that as drafted. But what was preserved was the ability for distributors like Coinbase, but many others to pay rewards out. So you know, to come back now months after the fact and as we're trying to push forward comprehensive legislation on market structure and try to sneak back in a take back of that, of that ability to issue rewards, we, this think is disingenuous and frankly disrespectful to all of the elected members of Congress who work so hard to forge a reasonable compromise. I don't think they're going to get away with it. I think Congress and the Senate in particular is well aware of what's going on here. They can see it for themselves. But it's important for us to all call out this anti consumer, anti customer behavior for what it is and to preserve people's ability to earn rewards on, on, on their stable coins. Just as by the way banks issue rewards to their customer holders when for example, you take a credit card out and you earn some miles on United or Delta or whatever, that's exactly what they're doing. And yet they're somehow arguing that it's count. It's, it's, it's a anti, it's anti consumer when it comes to stablecoins. We just don't think that applies.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

So you think we're going to win this war, Paul, which is good. Can you give us the shape of kind of the, the rivalry in D.C. because I mean it seems like the bank lobby has kind of run that down for a while and crypto is much more the new kid on the block. Right. We've just sort of started to have a presence, I would say in, you know, much thanks to Coinbase for being part of the vanguard here in the 2024 election. And that was the first time it felt like DC felt the presence of crypto fighting on behalf of crypto users rights. But it's the bank lobby like they've been there for a long time. They are well funded, they're almost a quasi public institution at this point in time. Maybe we win this battle, but they're not going away. And there are things within defi and crypto that are completely going to disrupt and dismantle what they do. And are they going to take that lying down? Like how are we positioned as far as like team Crypto versus team bank right now.

[Paul Grewal]

Well, there's a lot for, for Team Crypto to be proud of. If you look back to the results of the election last fall, we elected the most pro crypto Congress in history. We obviously have a very pro crypto presidential administration. As a result of that, we've been able to get legislation passed on a bipartisan basis, you know, at a time when, you know, there's very little happening in Washington on a bipartisan basis. So there is, I think, a lot for all of us, not just Coinbase, to be proud of, but I think it would be a huge mistake for anyone in crypto to assume that the battle's over and that we can just rest on our laurels. You are absolutely right. The big banks are formidable. We have to respect their prowess and their skill. And they're not just going to sit back and take this lying down. Going forward, they're going to continue to press for the imposition of rules that would constrain crypto, keep crypto on the sidelines from the financial system, and deny athletes like Tristan and others, but all Americans real choice and real opportunity for financial freedom. I think the main thing for everyone to pay attention to is in passing this legislation, are we enacting standards and adopting rules that serve people's interests, serve regular people's interests, or are we simply cutting deals in order for the traditional financial service providers to maintain their position of influence? I don't think there's any question that when you now have tens of millions of Americans, 52 million Americans or more, who have owned a digital asset or one type or one stripe, that, you know, elected officials have no choice but to continue to pay attention to that, to those, to that constituency. And so I think we're going to see reasonable, sensible legislation pass, but we have to absolutely be vigilant. We can't go back to the way that things were just a short while ago.

[David Hoffman]

You know, Tristan, when people get into crypto, they tend to pick a character class. Now, mine and Ryan's character is we like blockchain architecture, and we also kind of like the legal fight, the political fight. That's the stuff that we like to talk to Paul here about. But then there's also plenty of other characters in crypto, right? The traders, the meme coin investors, the per deck traders, more recently, prediction market traders, a lot of trading. What do you. How tapped into, like the crypto circus are you? Like, what's your crypto character class? What do you pay attention to?

[Tristan Thompson]

Everything. Everything.

[David Hoffman]

Everything.

[Tristan Thompson]

The whole thing. No, it's because it's the key, right? I think what I always, what I always preach to people, especially for myself, right? You have your, your institution side so you, you know, your guys like Paul and the guys that are in Washington and, and getting bills passed, legislation and forward moving the movement from institutional side. But also you can't forget about, you know, like they say, our DJing and our trenchers, right? I think they're all important because it's a, it's a team, right? I think our, our goal at the end of the day is to elevate this, this digital, financial, digital freedom and, and everyone plays a significant role. And I always, anything I talk always bring it back to team aspect, right? Like Paul, he's, he's, he's the go to guy, right? He's like LeBron, but, but in order for LeBron to win, he's got to have, you know, the Tristan Thompson's, the J.R. smith, the Kevin Loves. Everyone plays a key factor because for us to elevate, it's going to come from all of us, from within, because we all want the same thing. And for me it's important. Every morning, you know, I'm on, I'm on CT and I'm, I'm staying up to date with the culture because one thing about this space, the trend is always changing and it's moving very fast, right? One day it's AI, next you know, it's a Neo Banks. Next thing you know it's, it just changes so much. Then you got plasma come out of nowhere, then you'll have a Plasma 2.0. It's like you just gotta, you just gotta always stay on top of the game because I think especially for me and the fact that a lot of people have reached out and kind of, that are inquiring from the Web2 space, inquiring about crypto. I think it's important for me as being a vessel and someone that takes a lot of pride in moving, moving the space forward. I have to be well versed. I have to be well versed and I take a lot of ownership, especially you know, like everyone, right? If I'm going to do something, I'm going to be two feet in. And I've chose to do that in Web three and crypto because I get an excitement. It gives me the same adrenaline rush that I did or that I had for like a Game 7 in NBA Finals. That's what, that's what crypto gives me, that, that burning sensation inside. So that why you're here.

[David Hoffman]

That's why I'm here. I'm here for the risk. I'm for.

[Paul Grewal]

Here for the dream.

[Tristan Thompson]

It's the excitement of excitement of what the future will look like for me, right? Like the future that I see in the space, right? It's, it's. I like to tie it to the, the early.com era or even later than that, or even before that, the early gold rush era, right. It's important to be well versed, right? And like, you know, I'm, I have friends that are, that are trenchers that are trading all day on Axiom. And then I have friends like, you know, a friend of mine, you know, Bo Hines and Eric Trump, where we're sitting down talking about what's next for the space and how can you know whether it's usat what their, what their goal is or, or with American Bitcoin with Eric is doing over there. So I want to be full verse and I think that's, that's. I've been very fortunate to be able to be in these different rooms and be accepted. I think the, the one thing is, you know, when I came into space, you know, what's, you know, it's a narrative. You know what the narratives, right? Celebrities coming in and actually hate the word celebrity. It's like, no, I'm just a guy that had success in a different, in a different realm and now I'm entering a new chapter of my life where I want to position myself to be something that people could be proud and myself be proud of. So know when I walk in the room, everyone's like, okay, what's, what's, what's this mean? Token? What's the ca. And what's he going to extract this time? But it's like, no, guys, no, I'm actually here to do like the right thing and like help everyone be great, but more so onboard people, right? Like, that's where I see my, my calling, right? It's, it's, it's almost being like, like the Malcolm X almost being like the, the, the person that pushes the humanity forward in, in a grander scale. So for me, I think if you're going to be in here, you got to know everything, whether it's what's the yield on aerodrome right now or, or when, you know, when, when Jerome Powell is about to make an announcement and everyone. You see whales shorting btc, right? Like it's, you got to know everything in this space. So that's a, that's been my approach.

[David Hoffman]

But, but if you had to pick one like one app or one activity. Whether it's like speculating on meme coins or maybe it's, it's yield farming, yield optimization or airdrop farming. Like what's your favorite thing thing to do?

[Tristan Thompson]

I would say this if you asked me three months ago, I was a big like defi. Like I was sitting in like six AO drone pools. I'm probably sitting in about three now, but I was probably like six aerodone pools. It was like a US usdc, cb, btc, USDC ETH or E BTC pool, but even that. But now, you know, I, I, I, I've. I understand more about the space in educating where. You know, I've done a little bit per trading. You know, I like a little Las Vegas from time to time. Who doesn't. Right. Who doesn't like to hang out with their.

[David Hoffman]

Take.

[Tristan Thompson]

Take a roll of that. But, but what I always tell people, and I think what happened on Friday was that a lot of people learned that I come from a world where I came from nothing and I refused to go back home with nothing. So I always tell people, if you want to get into that leverage trading, it's fun, but don't put your whole life savings in it. That's just not even smart as an adult. I have kids, I have responsibilities. I'm not doing this. So that's kind of what then was kind of.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

I mean it sounds like you're managing things somewhat like us, which is like you got a buy and hold portion of your portfolio and you've got like a degen portion of your portfolio where you' and doing things. I wanted to ask you about this. So you talked about like being on Airdrome, being on these, you know, liquidity pools and defi, that sort of thing. How hard do you find it? Right? Like if you're talking to an average, you know, NBA pro athlete or something like that, like, obviously their first step is to buy some crypto on exchange like Coinbase, but. Right. Like could they get to the level of doing the things that you're doing and opening a Coinbase wallet and going into defi and earning yield that way? Or do you find it. It's still too. Dude, it's too nerdy. It's like too hard, the edges are too rough. Like how far have we come on the. This is easy to use for the everyday person front?

[Tristan Thompson]

Well, you know, for me it definitely took some time. You know, I took myself to crypto web 3 school and I actually hired like tutors to literally Teach me from, you know, what is an L1, what is DeFi was deepen. What's like what's the purpose? You know, like I took the time and, and research to learn that. So when I talk to, you know, friends of mine or the Web2 community, you know, I, I, I like to explain to them for in vocabulary that that's digestible for them, for them to understand because it's not as complicated as it may seem. It's more so if you can just show them examples and, and what I love is like I even have guys that will call me and I'll just go on, you know, Google Meets and I'll share my screen and show them how to do get in and out of pools and show them how to swap and open a Coinbase wallet and, and, and, and, and go about that and remember your password and not know Kevin Durant. You know, I love Katie. He's a good friend of mine. I've known him for about 20 years. And I'm like, we don't want those scary moments, right? Paul's like, yeah, we had that on stage. We got a good clip of that. But no, it's, it's, I think for us leaders in the space, we just got to do and just keep improving how we articulate it, right? Because you know, the one thing when I sit on, on these calls or I'm in tgs or among these cults with these founders that you guys are building amazing tech, you guys are doing things that are people would go to the end of the world to discover. But the problem is they don't know how to verbalize and articulate in a way where their aunt and uncle can, can digest it. Because one thing about human beings, you guys all know this. If you're using big words that I don't understand, I'm tuning you out. So for me it's being able to articulate that and explain to them and I've been able to help teammates whether it's open up your pools, whether it's teaching them how to stay. We're just teaching them how to open up a wallet and just buy and bridging and swap fees. Right? Just like here, keep swap it. Don't just take the first swap fee option that they give to you. Don't negotiate it. Right. Just in life. So it's possible. We just got to keep more familiar faces. Being able to give that financial literacy is going to help this, this Runway pick up at an ultra fast pace.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Yeah. One of the cool things we've Seen, Paul, this year has been just actually regulatory window open up where Coinbase can do some cooler things. David and I affectionately call this, like the defi mullet, which is you have like fintech and finance in the front, but you have the party in the back. You got the defi in the back. And we've been seeing Coinbase do more and more of that. Basically, like just integrate trading pairs from decentralized exchanges on base, for example, into the main Coinbase wallet, or allow for enhanced defi yield opportunities or even allow for staking within the app. One of the jurisdiction states in the country that seems like the last one to onboard is actually David's home state right now of New York. And so even there was a recent press release I saw from Coinbase, which is like, October 8th, starting today, New Yorkers can stake their crypto on coinbase starting today, October 2025. I've been able to do this from Virginia for like years within Coinbase. I wanted to ask you a regulatory question, right? Why is New York, which is supposed to be the center of finance in not only America, but the world, why are they so behind on crypto? Why is it that defi. David can't do the defi mullet thing in a Coinbase wallet because he lives in New York City right now?

[Paul Grewal]

I should say. Maybe one of the reasons why I like your analogy so much is what? Is because it wasn't that long ago, as a much younger man, I had a real mullet. So I.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

No way. We need pics, we need pictures.

[Paul Grewal]

This is incredibly bullish, so good luck finding it. But it's out there.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Oh, man. Okay, you heard them, Internet. Okay, we're gonna find this, the album.

[Tristan Thompson]

Where's. Where's his yearbook? Where's his yearbook?

[David Hoffman]

Guys? Yeah, we're gonna find this.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Now we're not gonna go there. You just unleashed something.

[Paul Grewal]

But listen, look, I think that on. On the question of New York, which is obviously slightly more serious than my. My high school mullet, the fact of the matter is that, you know, New York has historically been one of the most innovative jurisdictions for reform and innovation and regulation. It was the state that came up with the whole concept of the bitlicense. And Coinbase was really the first bit licensee of any stature going back now over a decade or more. And the fact is that New York did finally come around and authorize Coinbase to offer staking to our customers just in the last week. But. But I think in between those two points in time, you're.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

You're right.

[Paul Grewal]

That I think it has struggled to keep pace with the innovation that we've seen elsewhere, not just in the United States, but all over the world. And I think, you know, part of that may just be, you know, resourcing at the agency. There are so many regulated entities subject to New York jurisdiction that I think the New York DFS has a unique challenge in making sure that it has the right resources to oversee all that activity. And yet, you know, our attitude has always been we're not, we're not going to get overly frustrated. Even where we've had our challenges in New York, we're going to keep at it. It is a critical market. We have a lot of customers there and a lot of people who want to want to do more with their crypto than they're currently able to do. And so, you know, I think in situations like this, you have to just exhibit a bit of grace and patience. I hope you all saw that in our fight with the sec. You know, we tried to focus on our legal disagreements, even though we recognize there are a lot of good people there who were trying to do the right thing, but that maybe were stepped on by the previous political leadership at the agency. And I think that, you know, at the SEC in New York and elsewhere, often patience is rewarded. And so that's really the attitude we've had as we've tried to pursue something much more long term than just, you know, rushing out products and services that may be of the moment.

[David Hoffman]

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[Paul Grewal]

Well, what I can say is that it's hard to ignore, you know, the excitement around prediction markets. There's no question about it that, you know, this idea that was, has been around for a long time and I remember reading papers about prediction markets going back years and years ago is now definitely something that's captured, you know, the public's attention. And so, you know, we, we are certainly paying careful attention to that and anything that continues to bring people online and on chain, we view as a good thing. And so when we see Kalshi Poly and others, you know, getting real traction in the market, you know, we congratulate them, we, we wish them continued success and we absolutely will continue to pay careful attention, you know, to how our customers are interacting with these other products and services in ways that we think are ultimately going to benefit crypto as a whole.

[David Hoffman]

Are you a user of any prediction markets? Do you like to, if you like to watch sports, do you like to also have your laptop open with a prediction market on the side while you watch the sports?

[Paul Grewal]

Well, I have been known to wager a bit on, on, on, on sports from time to time.

[David Hoffman]

Have you ever made a wager that is of a direct relationship to whether or not Tristan wins a game?

[Paul Grewal]

I would never bet against Tristan, if that's what you're asking.

[Tristan Thompson]

Has Tristan made you money, my man?

[Paul Grewal]

What Tristan has done is bring me joy, which is much more important.

[Tristan Thompson]

Peace and happiness, Paul. Right. Peace and happiness, 100%.

[Paul Grewal]

And no amount of money can buy the joy of seeing your, your team in your city finally win a title after decades of utter futility. So this goes way beyond what a couple of extra bucks from a parlay that Hits can do. But look, I will say that what is, I think maybe most exciting our prediction markets is less the ability to bet on the Cavs or the Browns or any of the team that you may be rooting for. I think it's much more about distributing information and making instantly available globally information that used to only recently be in the hands of a, a couple of people or maybe even just one person at any point in time. That's where I think, you know, the real potential of this thing hits. It's, it's to go beyond just wagering to providing a whole new way of distributing information that is extraordinarily powerful and efficient. And, you know, that long term potential, as much as anything, is what has us excited about, about the future prediction markets.

[David Hoffman]

Tristan, we're seeing, I don't know if it's a war yet, but I'm predicting a collision between prediction markets and sports betting platforms like FanDuel and the other one.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

And DraftKings.

[Paul Grewal]

DraftKings.

[Tristan Thompson]

DraftKings.

[David Hoffman]

Thank you. Just from the, from the pro athlete perspective, what do you guys think about those platforms? Like, do you, do you care about them? Do you think they're great? Like, what's, what's the take? I don't really know.

[Tristan Thompson]

I love. Yeah, no, I. What I love about the prediction market, you know, what I love more is that it's empowering communities. Right. I think that's especially coming from the athletic background. You know, what is the one thing we always preach? You know, that our fans and our community are number one. Without our fans, we're nobody. Right? But the cool thing about the prediction mark is that people can come together with an idea or a thought or a sentiment and really stand on that. Believe it, preach about it, and it actually comes to light, right? And it's, it's actually the way I look at it right now is that these platforms are becoming disruptors to the cnn, the Fox News, the, the BBC, the Al Jazeeras. And I love that, right, because that's what crypto's about. That's what web3 is about, right? We're becoming disruptors in the space, but being disruptors because we know what's out there that could be better and improved, right? And I think it's kind of like these financial advisors, right, they're just old dogs that don't want to learn new tricks. They take your money, go to Fidelity and say, here, sit down and just be enjoying, right? So like prediction market, it's a way to challenge the, the general media because at the end of the day, like we all know cnn, they promote stuff that is one side. Fox News promotes something that's another side. But, but, but, but with prediction markets and these, these, these platforms, it allows for us, let's all take off the gloves and let's just have a real honest conversation and how do we really effing feel? And when you notice is that the way the community comes together and has an idea, it's kind of right more than 50% of the time. So it's like, okay, this is onto something. That's why, you know, the New York stock issue, that's what they made that, that, that investment in Paul and Poly Market, right? Like, because they see what the future is. Like, they see how strong a community can move the needle with a result in the world.

[David Hoffman]

Last night I was watching my Seattle Mariners play Ryan's Canada Canadian Blue Jays, Toronto.

[Tristan Thompson]

I'm from Toronto, by the way, so I'm very upset about this. I'm sick to my st. Just for.

[David Hoffman]

A little bit of context for the listener, The Mariners won 10 to three and there was a three run home run that took Mariners from, from three to three to six to three. And I pull open my phone and I refresh the polymarket page and the odds had already updated. By the time it took me to pull open my phone and refresh the page, the odds had already updated to like 80, 20 to the Mariners, which is just great. It's just like a second. David, David, we get it, man.

[Tristan Thompson]

We get it. David, we get it.

[David Hoffman]

Stop dragging, dude.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Come on, man.

[David Hoffman]

The great cart was just like the real time nature of just, it's just everything. I, I've never been a sports betting participant. I don't really know if there was that level of participation that was allowable by sports betting because there's a, there's a sports book, not a poly market. Like poly market is a marketplace. A sports book is just a book. Now like, I don't know if you have an opinion as to like if like sports books are better than prediction markets or prediction markets are better than sports books. Maybe they just both give fans ways to participate in, you know, just beyond just watching the sports. Maybe you're like, oh yeah, both are great.

[Tristan Thompson]

I don't know.

[David Hoffman]

Do you have an opinion on which one should win if there is a incoming collision between these two platforms?

[Tristan Thompson]

Well, I think the way that the world's turning and the way that the world's progressing, I honestly truly believe that, you know, prediction markets will essentially have a high chance of taking over these sportsbooks, right? Because these sports was all just based on somebody. It's almost like when you look at like fantasy sports, when you have, when you make your team, right, like ESPN FanDuel, they give you these numbers, they give you these projections, but you don't even know who the person is, right? You don't even know their credibility, right? And, and, and they really don't even, even what I like to say, like I honestly believe that there, there is a guy at home right now that knows more information about basketball or baseball than who's sitting on ESPN that's supposed to be that sports analyst. And it's being shown day in and day out right now where, where people are now tuning in to these prediction markets to get their news data and information, then turning on the tv. So I really, truly believe that what is, what's, what's going to happen, no different than what the institutions are like. We can't beat you guys. So we're trying to figure out a way to join you and like try to have a collab and offer you a lot because you're getting too powerful. Because we don't want to become obsolete and become, become irrelevant. So I think that's what's going to happen that you know, your Caesars, your MGMs, they're going to come to these, these prediction market platforms and say, hey, we need you to be part of this. Let's do a collab. Because we know that the Gen Z, the people that are 8, 16 or 18 to 25, they don't care to go to Vegas and sit, sit at the MGM and do the sports book and look there all day. But what they will do is open a laptop and get on Twitter and make the predictions and give Their thoughts and ideas.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Paul, what's the current state with prediction market regulation? So one thing that's been super interesting to David and I as we've explored the subject, particularly with respect to, as Tristan was saying, how prediction markets are kind of taking over sports betting, is the different licensing regimes and regulatory regimes that they fall under. So like a Fanduels or DraftKings, you have to get a gaming license on a state by state basis. Right. It's almost like a casino because you're betting against the book. With prediction markets, they are now open across states, regulated by a federal entity, the cftc. So they can come in under the cftc, kind of like, I don't know, futures derivatives, types of licensing and be available to everyone. It's again, because you're not betting against a centralized operator. It's a peer to peer prediction marketplace. It truly is a marketplace. But what's the state of play there? Because I know there are some in halls of government who would stop that if they could. That is, they would block prediction markets entirely. Might even want to block them from the political arena, but certainly they'd want to block them from kind of the, the sports prediction market arena. Are we safe there with respect to our regulation? Are there some battles that are coming? Is there any legislation that you see in the works?

[Paul Grewal]

Well, the battles aren't just coming, they're here right now. You've got active litigation in multiple federal courts over this pretty simple question, which is, you know, does the cftc, as the federal regulator of derivatives markets, have exclusive jurisdiction over prediction sites and their activities? Or is there still a role for state gaming commissions in spite of what seems to me at least to be pretty plain language in the authorizing statute for the cftc, which is the Commodity Exchange Act? So I think the courts are going to ultimately have to resolve this question because look, the state gaming commissions have enjoyed a long run as a major venue for regulating gaming activities across the country. And yet I think this new technology is fundamentally challenging that in ways that threaten that dominance that they've had. The Supreme Court's going to ultimately have to make the call there for sure. But I think the industry is on the right side of the law. Congress could always move to change that. But as we learn in crypto, getting legislation passed on almost anything is no small task. And in the meantime, I think what you're going to see is politically the pressure just continue to mount and mount in favor of prediction markets, because as we saw with Bitcoin and Ethan and cryptocurrencies More generally, once tens of millions of Americans make their preferences known by voting with their wallets and acquiring these things, politicians tend to fall in line because they want to continue to get reelected and maybe only slightly more generously, they want to continue to serve the preferences and interests of the people who put them in office. So I do think that time is on the side of predictions markets. I think the law is absolutely on their side. And so between those two forces, I think we're going to see these things around and not just around, but thriving for many, many years to come.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

How about leadership though? We don't currently have a CFTC chair, is that a very crucial position for this prediction markets piece?

[Paul Grewal]

I think it's certainly important and I'm hopeful that the administration, working together with the Senate Ag Committee in particular will, will, will fill the CFTC chair positions quite soon. We've seen some names floated for that and, and, and I'm extremely encouraged that, you know, the names that are bandied about have all expressed a strong support for sensible crypto regulation and strong support for the crypto industry more generally. So I think that's going to resolve itself soon. And in the meantime, you know, we're seeing, you know, the critical legislation goes beyond just prediction markets, but really, you know, implicates market structure as a whole move forward and hopefully we're going to see all this come to a head once Congress is back in session, once we get past this shutdown in just a matter of a few months.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

I'm sure there's a prediction mark out there on who the next CFTC chair is. So everyone listeners can make their best. Yeah, Paul, you could be in the running or. Yeah, well we have a fantastic SEC chair right now, but you know, maybe in the future consider that position as well. And actually Paul, you mentioned the kind of market structure in the Senate. So just last week it seemed like, okay, so market structure, of course we had the Clarity bill in the House that passed. Now the Senate wants to kind of, they have the not invented here syndrome. So they want to make their own, you know, draft of this. So they're doing that. The Republican version looked pretty good, but now last week it seemed like the Democratic senators kicked back a version that would effectively, I haven't looked at all the language, but effectively it feels like it will ban defi in the United States. So it's kind of the thing like all defi protocols are intermediaries, so are software developers, so are the front ends. You know, all of this anti crypto army stuff that we've dealt with in the past. I thought that was behind us, but now Democratic senators are coming up with this version of the bill. So what does that indicate to you? That we still have some battles ahead. Do you, do senators not know that the anti crypto army got like, defeated in 2024 and that is a bad position to do it, or are they just trying to torpedo market structure in general?

[Paul Grewal]

Well, I think it's important to take. Take a step back and remember that nearly 300 members of the House of Representatives, including something like 78 Democrats, voted in favor of clarity. And so, you know, there's a clear bipartisan consensus that market structure legislation makes sense. And in the Senate, what I would say is about the, about the proposal that was leaked just a few days ago that you referenced, while it's certainly not something we would ever support, in fact, coinbase has been quite loud and quite active in opposing any efforts to unduly restrain DEFI and continued growth. I think the most I can say is it shows that we now have both sides once again engaging on the issue. And while there's a lot of work that remains to be done, and while I think it's critically important that we continue to protect DEFI from overburdensome regulation that would kill it before it's even really had a chance, we shouldn't lose heart or lose sight of the progress that we've made. It's going to take some time. We're going to have to work through some of these issues with the leadership on both sides of the aisle, but we're going to get there. We did it before, we're going to do it again. And I'm confident we're going to keep defi protected even as we move forward.

[David Hoffman]

With the broader legislation getting into more prediction market subjects. Tristan, you're building a, building an app. An app that is an integration of prediction markets, sports and fantasy. Tell us a little bit more about that.

[Tristan Thompson]

Yeah, no, you know, it's called basketball fun. And for me, you know, you know, being in the space, you know, I've always had the building mentality, right? You have to build yourself up to become an NBA player. You know, I wasn't lucky to, to wake up one morning and be who I was when it took time, it took practice, it took multiple hours of refining my game to put myself in a position to be where I'm at. And it's no different than, than in crypto and web three. Right. So I wanted to build something to basically improve where I saw there was A flaw. And really from this whole conversation we've been having is challenging what has been written or, or been around for a long period of time and saying there's, there's better, there's a more efficient way. And you know, what I created was basically empowering the fans to really show the true value of a player. And that's what basketball fun is. Right. And of course it's being on chain. So we're allowed to do a lot more creative things but allowing every player to be a tradable digital asset. Right. And basically.

[David Hoffman]

Are you tokenizing players?

[Tristan Thompson]

Yeah, tokenizing players.

[David Hoffman]

Tokenizing players, yes. How does that work?

[Tristan Thompson]

So the way this, the way it works is that. So every player in the NBA that's on an active roster, basically tokenizing. The way we do it, the way that we're coming out with version one because we want to basically put in stages, right. I think anything you create, you want to have a roadmap, right? So stage one is, and how we're doing is we're tokenizing every player and we're allowing the people to determine the value. Kind of very similar to a meme token. Right? Every player is basically a meme token. And you're able to buy, sell and trade players based on their performance. It could be performance, but it also could be based on popularity, sentiment, their value. Right? Because I think the NBA or, or ESPN or ESPN fantasy apps, they're going to determine the, the valuable player just, just based on performance. Right. And I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Right. I think the way you did, the value of player, it's a full scope. Right? Of course performance is a big thing. But you also have for some people, how they are in the community means a lot, right? Or how they interact with their families or how they even dress. Right. Fashion has become such a in the NBA and in sports where guys popularity has been driven based on what they're wearing. So for us we're allowing a marketplace for people to come on this platform. And whether. I'll give an example. If a guy in Miami loves Khalil Ware, he's a second year player. He's not, doesn't have the biggest name, doesn't have that. But people in Miami understand his value to that team. So you come on the platform, you'll buy shares. But we also did it where it was pretty cool, where you can open packs, right? Because I want to give you that nostalgic moment like back when we were 8 years old when our parents would take us on the weekend to go open a trading card pack and we'd get excited that we got, you know, for Paul to be excited to get a Hot Rod Williams pack or a rookie Brad Dougherty pack, right? So like we want to give that, that nostalgic moment because I think that's very important in sports is that adrenaline rush moment. But, but, but getting to the technological aspect, the token aspect is that we want people to be able to buy early, believe in a player early. Because I think I'll use Ty Drum as an example. A player on my team going into the season last year, he was probably ranked in the three hundreds out of 400 players, right? He was probably near the bottom, right? Because what happened the year before, right? But imagine that one kid that really loved Ty Drum that went to University of West Virginia, University of Virginia and said, hey, I'm gonna buy a bunch of shares of Tide Jerome because I truly believe he's going to have a breakout year. And so happened. He finished third in six man of the year. That token goes up, that market cap goes up. No different than buying a meme token. And you look like the guru that had we. I almost want to encourage who really knows basketball and who knows the game on a deeper level more than just a generic NBA today. All those TV shows that just only promote the good players. Guys, we already know LeBron's good. He's been doing it for 20, 23 years. Tell me a guy that's going to be the next up and coming star where a guy believes in him, buys his token and he becomes a star. Market cap goes up, people make money and it makes it way more of exciting than just the standard fantasy over and under old school bs.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

This is very cool. So this is called basketball fun. I believe it'll be out on May 22. Is that the release date?

[Tristan Thompson]

Yeah. So yeah, we're launching opening week of the NBA season. And the reason why we did that is because like you guys know and anyone that is that, that does fantasies that the week before the season starts. You don't know what happens at preseason. Guys can get hurt, guys can get injured, guys could be having a great preseason. Another example, Amen Thompson at a place for Houston Rockets. He's been having a stellar preseason where they're saying he could be a potential all star, right? So the reason why I do it is because everyone's going to be in that mode of that fantasy gambling prediction market space the week before scene starts, I'm like, yo, this is the perfect time to drop it because that's when the iron's going to be hot and guys are going to be ready, like they say in the trenches, ready to cook.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Yeah, very good. And that's, of course, it's an EVM chain, so it's going to get more people on chain using our wallets, like Rabi and the Coinbase wallet, of course, and Metamask and all of these things. So it sounds fantastic. We'll include a link in the show notes so people can figure that out. Paul, I think we're at the end of this episode, but I have absolutely no segue for this next question, so I'm just going to flat out ask you.

[Tristan Thompson]

Okay, just throw it out there.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

What is up with Gary Gensler's deleted texts? Was the guy seriously deleting his text while in office? And, like, do we have any recourse for this? That's. That's our conclusion question. So take us home here, Paul.

[Paul Grewal]

Oh, boy, that's. That's a heck of a segue. There is zero question that Gary Gensler's tax records, the sec, were destroyed. And they were destroyed at a time where the SEC had an absolute obligation under US Law to preserve them for a whole host of reasons. And this isn't just me speculating about this. The SEC has something called an Office of Inspector General, which is kind of an internal investigator who's responsible for looking into these issues when people raise questions. And the Office of Inspector General at the SEC issued a scathing report confirming that all sorts of records were deleted and destroyed despite those orders to protect. To preserve them. And, you know, as you. You guys know, we've had active litigation against the SEC now for some time where we've been looking to get those records because it was relevant to all sorts of open questions that remain about the Gensler enforcement regime, even though Gary is now, you know, long in the rearview mirror. And so we're pressing a federal district court in Washington to allow us to continue to investigate this issue, get access to those.

[Tristan Thompson]

Those.

[Paul Grewal]

Those decisions that were made and information around them so we can shine a bright light on this and make sure it doesn't happen again. And, you know, it's not just about, you know, vengeance or. Or ill feelings about what happened over the last four years. It's mostly, and for us at Coinbase, entirely about making sure this never happens again. And the best way you can make sure something doesn't happen again is to shine a big, bright light on what happened in the past and make sure that everybody knows about it. So we're going to keep at it.

[David Hoffman]

Paul, do you remember April Fool's Day 2023 on crypto Twitter?

[Paul Grewal]

I do, I do.

[David Hoffman]

Do you remember what I'm, you know, what I'm referring to right now?

[Paul Grewal]

Well, I think you're referring to the. The. The announcement or the premature announcement about ETF approvals, if I'm not mistaken.

[David Hoffman]

No, maybe it's 2022. 2023 or 2022. Gary Gensler put on the deal with it. Sunglasses on his profile picture.

[Paul Grewal]

I try not to remember those. Those.

[David Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah. Paul, I don't get mad very often, but when I saw that, I got mad because to me, that that was an admission of guilt from Gary Gensler. Who else is on Twitter engaging with Gary Gensler? What other community is giving Gary Gensler all of his engagement? It's the crypto community. And when you put on the. Just deal with it. Glasses on April Fool's Day, which gives you the deniability, it's like, ha, ha. It's just April Fool's. To me, that was an admission of guilt. And I know that you are a lawyer, and you will say, well, technically, that's not an admission of guilt. That was an admission of guilt. See, the true.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

I love David, that the trolling from Gary Gensler is worse for you than the potentially illegal stuff he was doing.

[Paul Grewal]

I'm not sure that would be on the top, you know, in the top five things that I had a problem with during the Gensler regime. But I hear you, I feel you. And look. I mean, it's. It look only slightly more. Seriously, guys, like, you know, this is. This would. This would be. This would be funny if it weren't, you know, our government.

[Tristan Thompson]

This.

[Paul Grewal]

This is the. These are the functional officials who are appointed and elected to represent and serve us who were doing these things in our name. And so, you know, it would. It would be as bad as if somebody were to, you know, kneecap Tristan on the floor and ruin his career as a result and then, you know, post a jokey meme about it. This isn't funny. Real people got hurt in real ways. And so, you know, while I was never much a fan of Gary's humor, regardless, I think it's really, really important that we. We hold the people responsible for all that activity.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Yeah, we had. We had bad refs. At the end of the day, we had bad refs. Guys, this was a fantastic episode. Love, Tristan, what you're doing from the bottom up, building that interest in crypto, and Paul, what you're doing from the top down in the halls of our government. This has been really fun to have you both on this collaborative episode. So stop by again soon.

[Paul Grewal]

Thanks, guys.

[Tristan Thompson]

No, I appreciate having us. Thanks so much, Paul. Keep doing what you're doing, man. You're making Northeast Ohio proud. Making us proud.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

Thank you, Tristan.

[David Hoffman]

That's right.

[Paul Grewal]

And keep doing what you're doing. We're proud of all that you're happy that you've made happen for Northeast Ohio and for Crypto.

[Tristan Thompson]

Thank you. Thank you, Tristan.

[David Hoffman]

When does basketball fun open up?

[Tristan Thompson]

So the opening week is opening for the season. So October 22, so be on the lookout, guys.

[David Hoffman]

It's coming up.

[Ryan Sean Adams]

You know, none of this has been financial advice. Hasn't been sports advice either. You could lose what you put in. But we are headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone. But we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.