Podcast
Bankless
Hosted by Bankless · EN
The Ultimate Guide to Crypto Finance. DeFi, NFTs, and cryptocurrencies. Level up. Go bankless.
253episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
How Ondo Is Bringing Stocks and Perps Onchain | Ian De Bode
Jul 200:48:46Summary readyThe stock market is starting to move onchain, and Ondo is one of the teams building the rails. Ian De Bode joins David to explain how Ondo brought tokenized SpaceX stock to Ethereum minutes after trading began, why tokenized equities need real market liquidity instead of shallow DEX pools, and how Ondo Perps could unlock a new generation of RWA trading by using tokenized stocks as collateral.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless👑BANKLESS PREMIUM | AD-FREE & BONUS EPISODEShttps://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Ondo’s RWA Moment1:17 How SpaceX Stock Hit Ethereum in Minutes2:57 What Actually Backs a Tokenized Stock?4:49 The Onchain and Offchain Market Machine10:29 Where the Demand Comes From12:46 The Most Popular Tokenized Stocks14:54 Why Perps Need Better Collateral20:46 New Strategies for Onchain Asset Management25:02 The Next 12 to 18 Months26:14 How Big Can Perps Get?28:46 Offshore Versus Onshore Perp Markets32:05 Inside Ondo Perps36:24 Why Not Build on Hyperliquid?37:49 Launch Timeline and Early Demand39:48 Will Wall Street Incumbents Compete or Help?43:52 Ondo’s 2026 Roadmap45:22 Remembering Nathan Allman---RESOURCESIan De Bodehttps://x.com/iandebode---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
Strategy is Trapped & in Crisis — "It's Basically a Hedge Fund Now" | Jeff Dorman & Matt Walsh
Jul 100:53:50Summary readyMichael Saylor’s Strategy bought itself time, but did it actually solve the problem? David sits down with Jeff Dorman and Matt Walsh to unpack Strategy’s increasingly complex capital structure, why $STRC and MSTR are now fighting for oxygen, whether Saylor may need to sell Bitcoin, and why the company is starting to look less like a levered BTC play and more like an actively managed hedge fund.---📣OKX | THE NEW MONEY APPhttps://app.okx.com/en-us/join/usbankless---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless👑BANKLESS PREMIUM | AD-FREE & BONUS EPISODEShttps://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro2:30 Can Stretch Return to 100?4:00 Explaining the New Framework4:43 Can the Capital Stack Coexist?6:39 Refunding the Converts8:32 MNAV Near the Breaking Point11:15 Option Value or Investor Betrayal15:37 Legal Risk and Retail Exposure19:52 Buying Time, Not Solving It22:20 Scenario Odds After the Pivot24:54 Sell Bitcoin or Wait28:59 M&A as a New Path34:13 Temporary Relief, Future Crash36:21 Slow Bleed, Not Bankruptcy40:58 Bitcoin Needs a Bigger Narrative46:56 Would Jeff Buy Stretch?48:26 Is the Model Actually Genius?52:09 Closing & Disclaimers---RESOURCESMatt Walshhttps://x.com/MattWalshInBosJeff Dormanhttps://x.com/jdorman81---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
Ethlabs: The New Org to Make Ethereum Win | Ansgar & Caspar
Jun 2900:58:32Summary readyEthereum has a new R&D lab, and its mission is blunt: make Ethereum and ETH win. In this episode, David sits down with Ansgar and Caspar, two co-founders of Ethlabs, to unpack why the organization exists, how it complements the Ethereum Foundation, and what it means to put Ethereum back on offense.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS0:00 What is Ethlabs?2:35 The EF Narrows Its Mission9:30 Putting Points on the Board13:06 Principles Need Users14:53 ETH the Asset and Ethereum the Network17:33 Scaling, Interop, and Growth Workstreams22:52 The Talent Behind Ethlabs25:27 What a New Organization Unlocks27:53 Pro Markets, Pro Growth, Pro ETH30:51 The Trillion Dollar ETH Question37:07 Who Steers Ethereum?39:55 Shared Vision, Different Path45:13 Funding Ethlabs51:54 Hiring for Ethlabs54:24 Ethereum’s Long Arc58:14 What Comes First---RESOURCESAnsgar Dietrichshttps://x.com/adietrichsCaspar Schwarz-Schillinghttps://x.com/casparschwaEthlabshttps://ethlabs.org/---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
ROLLUP: Bitcoin Breaks Below $60K | Saylor’s Three Bad Options | ETH Labs | The Quantum Clock
Jun 2601:04:00Summary readyMarkets are bleeding as Bitcoin breaks below $60K and Strategy faces its biggest test yet. Ryan and David unpack Saylor’s three-way squeeze, ETH Labs vs. the EF reset, quantum timelines moving up, and Illinois’ new crypto tax.---🧭OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro3:35 Bitcoin Below $60K and Strategy’s 3 Body Problemhttps://www.tradingview.com/chart/KZYJV3ef/https://www.strategy.com/https://x.com/saylor/status/2069028571880845340https://x.com/saylor/status/2069682624956612731https://x.com/Pentosh1/status/2069797143917855024https://x.com/jdorman81/status/2067616073479078386https://x.com/jdorman81/status/2069857950202835258https://x.com/ki_young_ju/status/2069646523668033833https://x.com/PeterSchiff/status/2070146847692185798https://polymarket.com/event/what-price-will-bitcoin-hit-before-202717:59 ETH, Stocks, South Korea Selloff, and the AI Trade20:59 Why Crypto Is Down: AI Attention, Debasement Pause, and the 4-Year Cycle27:06 Mover of the Week: $CARDS and Pokemon Cards as RWAshttps://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/collector-crypt31:32 Ethereum’s Center of Gravity Shifts: EF Cuts and ETH Labshttps://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/2069431500035023121https://blog.ethereum.org/2026/06/23/ef-structurehttps://x.com/aerugoettinea/status/2069017140846330107https://x.com/tkstanczak/status/2069454499509596582https://x.com/bobbyong/status/2069965817882755342https://x.com/ethlabs_org/status/2069104073245159573https://ethlabs.org/thesis.htmlhttps://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2069110440903196810https://x.com/trent_vanepps/status/206759312439898955151:50 White House Quantum EO: Are Crypto Timelines Moving Up?https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/2069154174818754759https://x.com/projecteleven/status/2069151681015627881https://x.com/drakefjustin/status/206179372529922467657:25 Illinois Passes a 0.2% Crypto Transaction Taxhttps://x.com/0xBeaconLayer/status/2069120528238121154https://x.com/manwithadogg/status/2069158605664756205https://x.com/DarrenBaileyIL/status/207014951710246952759:50 Portfolio Check and Crypto Bottom Watch---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
AI, Surveillance, and the Fight for Digital Sovereignty | Near's Illia Polosukhin
Jun 2300:57:27Summary readyWhat happens when powerful AI requires an ID, governments can restrict access by country, and your most private data flows through centralized systems? NEAR co-founder Illia Polosukhin joins David to explain why AI export controls could fracture the internet, how nationalized AI could become a surveillance layer, and why decentralized, user-owned AI may be the only real alternative. They also unpack Ironclaw, confidential inference, private agents, and NEAR’s push to make AI and assets fully sovereign.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro3:47 Pandora’s Box Opens6:03 AI Meets Government7:16 Decentralizing the Stack8:51 Why Ban Fable?11:18 Internet Balkanization13:57 KYC for AI?18:43 Nationalized Models21:07 Building Private AI26:30 Agent Marketplace30:26 User-Owned Alignment35:28 Winning Against Giants40:19 Regulation Fuels Crypto42:24 Global AI Adoption45:05 Compute Is the Bottleneck49:00 Enterprise Use Cases51:39 Confidential TVL Explained55:25 Full Sovereign Mode---RESOURCESIllia Polosukhinhttps://x.com/ilblackdragonNear Protocolhttps://www.near.org/---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
"The Fed Can't Print Moore's Law" - How the AI Crash Sends Bitcoin to $1M | Arthur Hayes
Jun 2200:58:16Summary readyArthur Hayes is back on Bankless, and he’s taking the W off the table. After selling HYPE, NEAR and ZEC, Arthur walks through why the AI trade started to look less asymmetric, why oil and geopolitics may still be the bear case no one wants to price, and why ETH may offer one of the cleaner setups in crypto today. Then the conversation turns bigger: AI capex, circular revenue, China’s cheap models, GPU depreciation, and the moment Arthur thinks the Fed discovers it can’t print Moore’s Law.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS0:00 Why Arthur Sold HYPE, NEAR and ZEC4:26 The AI Trade Starts to Look Crowded6:25 How Arthur Is Positioned Now7:15 Crypto’s Strange Market Dispersion11:09 Oil, Iran and the Fake-Out Risk14:16 Why the Iran Deal May Not Be Durable17:29 Can AI Survive Higher Oil?21:20 The AI Bubble Thesis26:11 China’s Cheap AI Threat30:38 The Credit Event Arthur Is Watching35:51 The 2028 Perfect Storm39:45 Why AI Is Draining Crypto’s Bull Market44:28 Arthur on Inventing Perps48:11 Why Perps Could Eat Wall Street51:18 Socialized Loss Explained53:21 Onshore vs Offshore Perps55:50 Why Hyperliquid Can Flip Binance56:30 The Perp Inventor Does Not Use Leverage---RESOURCESArthur Hayeshttps://x.com/CryptoHayes---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
ROLLUP: Saylor Risk? | Warsh’s New Fed | SpaceX IPO | Coinbase’s Everything Exchange
Jun 1901:00:35Summary readyEquities are rallying, but Bitcoin is breaking down. David and Tom unpack Saylor’s STRC stress, Warsh’s first FOMC, SpaceX’s mega-IPO, Jito’s breakout, Coinbase’s Everything Exchange, and why perps may be crypto’s next real growth engine.---📣OKX | THE NEW MONEY APPhttps://app.okx.com/en-us/join/usbankless---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES 0:00 Intro3:07 Equities Up, Crypto Down: STRC Stresshttps://x.com/PeterSchiff/status/2067629492214829114https://x.com/zackvoell/status/2067628541257429213https://x.com/R89Capital/status/2067608064627491009https://x.com/jdorman81/status/206761607347907838611:21 First FOMC with Kevin Warshhttps://www.businessinsider.com/kevin-warsh-first-fomc-fed-meeting-interest-rates-2026-616:35 SpaceX Becomes One of the World’s Most Valuable Companies25:43 Mover of the Month: JTO31:01 Coinbase System Updatehttps://www.coinbase.com/blog/system-update-take-control-of-your-money-with-coinbasehttps://x.com/oost_marcel/status/2067268725883981841https://x.com/coinbase/status/2066890566667796530https://www.theblock.co/post/405012/coinbase-unveils-system-update-unlocking-an-ai-advisor-global-unified-liquidity-options-trading-and-more37:42 Anchorage Brings Hyperliquid to Institutionshttps://x.com/nathanmccauley/status/206690695146494796646:23 Blockworks Acquires Messarihttps://x.com/blockworks/status/206546832712057686350:40 UK Moves to Ban Social Media for Childrenhttps://x.com/keir_starmer/status/206645864001015857157:50 Polymarket World Cup Tradehttps://polymarket.com/sports/world-cup/brackethttps://polymarket.com/event/world-cup-winner59:50 Closing & Disclaimers---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
How Re is Rebuilding the $1T Reinsurance Market with Stablecoins | Karn Saroya & Avichal Garg
Jun 1800:58:35Summary readyRe is bringing the $1T reinsurance market onchain. Founder Karn Saroya and Electric Capital’s Avichal Garg join David to unpack how stablecoins can become a new capital source for insurance, why real-world reinsurance may offer crypto’s missing “real yield,” and how Re is using Ethereum, smart contracts, and AI to compete with legacy giants like Lloyd’s of London, Munich Re, and Swiss Re. They also discuss the RE token, the future of onchain capital markets, and why stablecoins could become the backbone of a new financial system.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro2:13 Blockchain Reinsurance Edge4:12 Stablecoin Capital Markets9:17 Efficiency Beats Incumbents13:02 Rewiring Insurance Plumbing16:24 Durable Startup Advantage23:26 Reinsurance Market Size30:09 How Reinsurance Pays32:42 Capital Stack Mechanics35:52 Leverage and Yield40:02 What $RE Tracks41:34 Tranche Yields42:36 Productive Capital Returns44:47 Looping the Receipts48:01 $RE Token Governance51:26 Roadmap to a Billion52:13 Onchain Adoption Ahead56:02 The DeFi Mullet Future---RESOURCES Rehttps://re.xyz/homeKarn Saroyahttps://x.com/karnsaroyaAvichal Garghttps://x.com/avichal---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
Why The Pokémon Card Market Is Blowing Up | Andy8052
Jun 1700:46:36Summary readyPokemon cards are suddenly one of the hottest markets in collectibles. But why now, and what does it have to do with crypto? Andy8052 joins David to break down the rise of digital pack-opening platforms, the nostalgia-driven bull case for Pokémon, why grading companies have a stranglehold on the market, and how millions of dollars of real-world cards are slowly moving onchain. Are tokenized collectibles the next NFT comeback story, or just another frothy mania?---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS 0:00 NFTs to Pokémon Cards2:59 Why Pokémon Is Hot8:13 Nostalgia Meets Disposable Income11:56 Brands, Influencers, and Hype15:06 Pricing the Cards16:21 Grading and Market Bottlenecks22:16 Why Cards Still Aren't On-Chain30:06 Inside Monster Strategy34:40 Market Consolidation Ahead35:42 Vaults, Shipping, and Logistics38:13 Kids, Parents, and Collecting40:45 Nostalgia Is the Real Bull Case43:45 Where to Find Andy44:35 Tokenized Cards and Stablecoins---RESOURCES Andy8052https://x.com/andy8052---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary
Perps Are Coming Onshore | CFTC Chairman Mike Selig
Jun 1500:35:08Summary readyPerps are coming onshore. CFTC Chairman Mike Selig joins David to unpack the first U.S.-regulated Bitcoin perpetual futures contract, the end of regulation by enforcement, and what comes next for Coinbase, Kalshi, Kraken, Gemini, Hyperliquid, Lighter, and the broader U.S. perp market. They also discuss which assets could list next, how U.S. leverage will differ from offshore exchanges, and why equity perps, RWAs, and 24/7 trading may be the next frontier of American finance.---📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium---BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKEThttps://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDEhttps://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOWhttps://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELDhttps://bankless.cc/brix🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTShttps://thedefireport.io/bankless---TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro3:32 Self-Certified Crypto Contracts7:08 Chasing the U.S. Perps Market9:00 Bringing Liquidity Onshore10:18 U.S. Market Guardrails12:44 Blockchain Transparency Advantage19:17 Hyperliquid and Onchain Perps23:09 Real-World Asset Perps24:38 Equity Perps & SEC26:35 Incumbents Versus Disruptors31:28 Derivatives Dominating Crypto33:16 Perps Are Just Beginning---RESOURCES CFTC Chair Mike Selighttps://x.com/ChairmanSelig---Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures
Summary