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Episode 4149: A WarRoom Christmas Eve Special Cont.
Episode 4149: A WarRoom Christmas Eve Special Cont. ...
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- [00:00]
Ben Shapiro
Christmas day I saw three ships come sailing on Christmas day in the morning and what was it the ship so.
- [00:07]
Jenny Holland
Free on Christmas day on Christmas day.
- [00:10]
Ben Shapiro
And what was in the ship so.
- [00:12]
Jenny Holland
Green on Christmas day.
- [00:13]
Ben Shapiro
Welcome back. Well, I'm absolutely delighted to have on the show today someone I've known for many, many years. I've never spoken to him on the show before. I think he's been on with Steve, Robert Moynihan, the editor, Long standing Editor, 40 years or so of, of Inside the Vatican magazine. Bob, welcome back on to the show. So you've been there, I think, longer than anyone else watching all these affairs in the Vatican. I do have a question I'm going to come to towards the end of our chat with you about your observations as such a long standing observer. I just want to ask you what your reflections are on the, the way people are perceiving the present pontificate. But before that, as it's Christmas, Christmas Eve today, we're obviously focusing in an advent way, specifically focusing our expectations on the nativity of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ tomorrow. But I wanted to ask you if there's anything in the past year, looking back on it, whether you can say I think this was the action of Jesus Christ in human events, both in the public sphere and then also, if you wouldn't mind, if there's anything in your own personal life.
- [01:34]
Dr. Robert Moynihan
Well, I want to wish you and everyone blessed Christmas. Christmas Eve. During this past year, it was pretty clear that our country was suffering under a type of strong delusion which the media supported and many of our institutions supported, our universities, the misunderstanding of the nature of man, the nature of sexuality, the nature of our identity as we came through the year. I think a key moment was when Robert Kennedy, Jr. Through his support to Donald Trump and he said that he was a Democrat as a young man and his father, who was the assassinated president, John, I'm sorry, His father was the assassinated senator Robert F. Kennedy, running for president in 1968. And his uncle was John F. Kennedy, the president who was assassinated in 1963. And he said, my parents, my family was Democratic, but I'm going to support Donald Trump because the Democratic Party has clearly become an ideological totalitarian party that doesn't listen and imposes its thought on the American people. I thought that was a remarkable thing for a man to do who was from that tradition. And after that and the election results in, it seemed as if the country was departing from a kind of lock on its collective mind. In my own life, I think there was the death of a dear friend for whom we prayed. And I continued that prayer during the past year as a kind of nightly prayer. And that slowly distanced me, I might say, by. From the everyday life that all of us lead. And I started engaging, in a sense, in a nightly prayer with eternal things. And I think it's human nature to try to live fully in time and succeed and keep our health and love our families. But deep inside of us, there's a longing for what is above, for what is eternal.
- [03:56]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
And.
- [03:56]
Dr. Robert Moynihan
And that's happened to me in the past year in a way, I think more deep than ever before.
- [04:03]
Ben Shapiro
But when I first came to rome back in 2011, a cynical old priest said to me, and you're probably. You're going to know the joke. He said to me, do you know why there's so much faith in Rome? I said, I don't know. Why is there so much faith in Rome? And he said, because everyone who comes here leaves it here, and then they go off without it. That's not happened with you. You've been in Rome. I think this is your 41st year. And listening to you talk, it's clear that your faith is as strong as it ever was. And I know that your father was a great influence on you in having a living, vibrant Catholic faith. Tell me your observations. You've been here 41 years. I think when you founded Insight, the Vatican magazine, one of your first visits was to go and see John Paul II and present him with your first copy. You've seen a lot of things. Tell me, give me your reflections after four decades in this town.
- [05:05]
Dr. Robert Moynihan
Well, at Christmas time, we're speaking about the Incarnation of the Word of God. That's something spiritual, invisible, and eternal entering into time. The Church is obviously in time, and it's passing now through 2000 years with human beings who have faith but sometimes are very imperfect, very corrupt. But once you realize that, you have to stick with what your parents. And really, for me, my grandmother, she stopped me one time when I was a teenager and I visited her in Haverhill, Massachusetts, and she said, have a egg and toast, Bobby. And we talked about various things. And she said, one thing I want to tell you, because I was heading off to college, she said, never lose your faith. So in a way, it's not my own choice. It's the obedience I have to her. And the faith is simply a belief that something good, that something holy, something higher than ourselves, is conveyed by the message of Christ. And I would probably say the key scriptural passage that has always been important to me is this one. We hold this treasure in earthen vessels, vessels of clay. So what is the treasure? The treasure is the news of this Christmas and then the life of Jesus and then his crucifixion and resurrection, which opens up a possibility for human hope from time toward eternity. And this is the treasure, this message, this proclamation, and we have it. But it's in an earthen vessel. It's a vessel of clay. It's mortal human beings. And we see that in many Vatican officials. We see it in many ministers, people who wish to do well but somehow fall short. But this is only for me, a further proof in a way that everything that occurs is somehow under the hand of God.
- [07:30]
Ben Shapiro
Bob, standby. I'll be coming back to you in just one minute time. I'm going to ask you what your words of counsel might be to Catholics who are being ever so slightly scandalized by the present pontificate. But first, discover the Birchgold Group difference. With your financial future at stake, you want to be confident in the companies you work with, especially when purchasing precious metals. You want to trust your savings into the hands of an experienced, well respected veteran of the precious metals market. You'll rest easier when you have a proven industry leader on your side, someone who can explain the benefits of diversifying with physical precious metals and exactly how they'll benefit you, especially when the economy gets shaky. Since 2003, Birch Gold Group has been celebrated by our customers, the industry and major media voices. We want to be your precious metals IRA company. A dynamic team of former wealth managers, financial advisors and commodity brokers educates and empowers you to make the right decisions for you and your family. We believe that given the knowledge and perspective you need, you'll act decisively with confidence to take control of your own financial future. We are committed to helping you protect your hard earned savings by diversifying with the physical precious metals that are right for you. That is a message from Philip Patrick. Just go to birchgold.com and use promo code Bannon, that is birchgold.com and don't forget promo code Bannon to see how to protect your IRA or 401k. Get a free info kit on Gold by texting the word Bannon to 989-898. Back now with Bob Moynihan. Bob, you know, this is something that we've covered on the show sort of repeatedly since I've been here over the last three years. There are messages coming out of the Vatican that scandalize, by the way, scandalize. Not only Catholics, but also Evangelicals, also Protestants. In the four minutes that we have left, what words can you offer? You've been in Rome 40 years, right? Well over half your life. What can you send back to America about what you're seeing here to give a word of sustenance?
- [10:14]
Dr. Robert Moynihan
I think we are engaged, of course, in a continual spiritual battle. We're trying to find the true, the good, the beautiful, and to adhere to the apostolic teaching to continue to hand over to the future. And we're part of a long tradition. There are people who have infiltrated and arrogated to themselves a kind of trendy thought which wishes to change church teaching. But there are many who will stand firm, and I believe they will prevail. We have the promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. But our struggle is not actually with flesh and blood. Our struggle is with powers and principalities in high places. We are engaged in a spiritual battle and it requires a spiritual commitment. We must not always depend on the easy conclusion, because the final test of true love for others and for God is not the easy solution. It's what is finally for the good of the other. And often, if you do not propose for the other a high standard, you show a insufficient love for your neighbor. The Church is as the picture behind you shows. It's a city that's been here for 2,777 years, founded in 753 BC as you walk through the city, you're walking where emperors walked, where Julius Caesar walked. You're walking where barbarians walked as they conquered the city and put it to the flame. You're walking where saints walked. St. Peter was here. St. Paul was here. Both of them were executed here. That's why the Church is here, because the graves of the two apostles to the Jews and to the Gentiles, to all the nations of the earth are here in Rome. One Peter in St. Peter's Basilica, the other Paul, just outside the city. And that tradition and the scriptures that were written is part of the fabric of this city. That's why behind you, Ben, you see a church steeple, and there's actually several in the image behind you. Yet there's also a classical image of a Roman chariot in the sky. This fusion of imperial and papal power has distinguished Rome, but people here can find simple faith. And in the end, I think Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict, and often Pope Francis himself, who nevertheless has been confusing and unclear. And I expect to be having a brief meeting with him in another few days. Here in Rome. And I'm going to say, holy Father, you have confused and disturbed and perhaps scandalized many people. Why don't you make one final effort to speak and issue a clear call. And therefore I wishing also to Pope Francis, who's 88 now, a merry Christmas. And also to Archbishop Vigano, who has been excommunicated. But I'm wishing him a merry Christmas because he's been such a beacon of truth. And let's hope that the jubilee year ahead, the new year ahead, will continue to bring the truth of Christ and true joy to humanity.
- [14:04]
Ben Shapiro
Dr. Robert Moynihan, I wish we could just spend the rest of the show chewing over what you just said. Quickly, 20 seconds. Where do people go to get inside the Vatican?
- [14:16]
Dr. Robert Moynihan
We have a website. InsideTheVatican.com I have a letter that I send out. There I am the other day with Hans Zimmer. There I am. Well, I'm not with Archbishop Vigan. No, but he's an old friend of mine and I'm wishing him well in the new year. And I've actually these hands have shaken the hands of John Paul ii, Benedict XVI and Pope Francis and Archbishop Vigano. So I try to bring everyone together and you can find me@insidethevatican.com Dr. Robert.
- [14:49]
Ben Shapiro
Moynihan, you're basically a third walking, third class relic. Thanks for coming on the show. We'll catch up again with you soon. Have a very merry Christmas and we'll be back after this short break.
- [15:00]
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- [16:23]
Ben Shapiro
Welcome back folks. Well My next guest, Jenny Holland, is a writer. She writes for Spike. Now I've had some professional dealings with her over the past few years and I'm thrilled that she's agreed to come on the show today because I think she's got a personal story that I'm actually going to be interviewing her today. Jenny, welcome onto the show. I think what I find. Let me just read this short passage out of an article that you put out last year because I think this is really fascinating, your backstory. This is from one of your articles. During the last month I sought refuge and calm for my overstressed brain in a very unexpected place. So unexpected in fact, that I'm reluctant to say it out loud. I began to say the rosary. As I write those words, I feel a huge resistance and embarrassment, like I'm sharing the most personal thing I have ever shared. Why is it so uncomfortable for me to state this fact, you ask? Okay, so I can get. I can guess why. You know, a lot of people don't like talking about the interior aspects of their faith. But that's not. And, but the fact that you are doing would still be intriguing. But that's not what got my interest. What got my interest is that you're formally agnostic. You're formally agnostic and yet you're moving towards one of the most famous Catholic devotionals that there is. And in parallel to that, your background, and I know from reading your writings your father was quite sort of anti clerical, that your grandfather was a deacon. Perhaps there's some intergenerational rebellion going on here. But in addition to that dynamic yourself on a political sense are moving from the left over into the magus fear and these two things are going on at the same time. Tell me a bit about that because I think that's a fascinating story.
- [18:28]
Jenny Holland
Thank you. Well, actually the funniest thing about it is that I'm far from alone. You're right. I started out actually not agnostic, but atheist. My father was an atheist, my mother was an atheist. They were both brought up in very sort of strict CA Catholic environments, but rebelled in the 60s and the boomers sort of sexual revolution. And my father was a sort of science loving, rationalist, liberal. Now he's been dead 20 years unfortunately. But what I just inherited that worldview. And at the time, I'm talking in the 1980s and 1990s, it seemed to be working okay. In fact, it seemed to be working very well. Now I don't have to tell you, Ben or your audience how spectacularly the liberal Project seems to have failed catastrophically and dramatically, I would say in the last, even five years. It's just gotten really remarkable. So people like me, sort of Gen Xers who used to be sort of indie kids and or hippies, which I never was, but radicals and just generally sort of progressive rebels, even though it's sort of a contradiction, are now middle aged and are really kind of appalled and revisiting and really deeply questioning all those secular assumptions that we grew up with. And what we're finding is that the answers tend really do strongly point to faith.
- [19:58]
Ben Shapiro
How do you, how does your social circle, your friends and family even, how are they accompanying you on this journey?
- [20:07]
Jenny Holland
They're not exactly accompanying me, but what I have found is new is new friends who have this almost exactly the identical experiences I do, and very similar backgrounds. And I'll give you a really interesting example. My birthday was 10 days ago and I was stuck in London. I was coming back from Italy and I got stuck in the storm and my flight was canceled and I was invited over to the home of a former lefty like myself, same age as me, a philosopher and her husband. And they again, very left wing, alternative lifestyle backgrounds. And the entire lunch which was lovely was spent talking about God. And before we ate we all, we sat and prayed and I've never done that before in my life. That's the first time in my life, in my adult life anyway, that something like that has happened. So there's a very really noticeable change happening amongst people who used to identify as left wing indie types. It might be small, it's probably the minority, but it's, it's perceptible.
- [21:14]
Ben Shapiro
Do you think it's growing?
- [21:17]
Jenny Holland
I do think it's growing. I mean, I suppose there's some sort of selection bias possible, but if you really, I mean, I think the world is falling into two groups. The people who are really unable to break free from their group consensus. And I know more people like that and for whatever reason I'm not one of them. I broke free from my group's consensus, which was like the sort of blue New York Democrat thing, and the people who can't help but see what they see. And once you see what you see, the questions that it raises really are stark. I mean, for me it was, first of all it was the COVID response and the vaccine mandates and the transing of children. And I thought, well, I thought back to my father and his love of science and his love of Isaac Newton and all of these really sort of foundational figures of the liberal world order. And I thought that no longer is working these, that those rules have failed us. Science became this religion in and of itself and had the same flaws as sort of a dogmatic repressive religion had. That was a real shock to me that the secular liberal world did not avoid the cruelties of the barbarisms. I thought I took it as faith that the secular world would avoid those things.
- [22:44]
Ben Shapiro
You divided the world into two groups. Is it fair to say that you're suggesting that those two groups are those who recognize that that agnostic, atheistic, prevailing culture is failing and those that don't recognize it?
- [23:01]
Jenny Holland
I think there's a sliding scale. I think you start out by thinking oh wow, these lefties are crazy. And then suddenly you find yourself praying the rosary within a few short years. So it depends on are in that scale. But that was certainly my trajectory unexpectedly.
- [23:20]
Ben Shapiro
Wow. And how your, your, your longstanding historic friends, how would they, how are they, how are they seeing this?
- [23:31]
Jenny Holland
That's what I don't, I don't discuss, I don't discuss it with them. I think politics and just general life has kind of moved me away from them anyway. Not deliberately in any dramatic way. Just people are middle aged and have their lives and live far. So I'm not entirely sure. I do often think of my grandfather though who died I think about 16 years ago and what he would think of this new version of me. And I'm sure he would be delighted because like many greatest generation, all of his children, he had 10 children, he was a very devout Catholic, became pretty much atheists and even hostile to the church. So that I often think about what that tragedy must have been like for him to have this very sincere faith that was not picked up by his many children. But I think there is a turning now. I really do.
- [24:31]
Ben Shapiro
Jenny, in the final three minutes that we've got of this part of the shard, someone asks you something. Looking over the course of the last year, is there anything that you could say you think this I think was the action of Jesus Christ working in the affairs of man? And is it, is anything within the personal realm that you might say the same sort of thing about that you'd share with the war in posse?
- [24:55]
Jenny Holland
Yes. I mean I don't, I feel weird. I feel like an interloper when I, if I try to speak about say Jesus or anything that's like about the Bible, I don't feel like I've earned that right. But I will say that say praying the rosary almost every morning. I mean there's been a week or so here, there, where I haven't done it. Throughout this year, I have noticed the level of calm that it has brought into my life. It's absolutely extraordinary. So crises happen, right? Things go wrong, people do things that upset you. And it made me so much less reactive and it really did make me take. It gave me an ability to take a deep breath and sort of be at peace even when things were going quite terribly wrong. And I can only attribute that to that sense of having a higher power to whom I can hand over my troubles.
- [25:54]
Ben Shapiro
Wow. Wow. Tell me in the two minutes then left. You write for Spike, but you also push out some great stuff on your Substack column. Just quickly on social media, what are the things that you point to people towards and what sort of things do you write about on substack?
- [26:15]
Jenny Holland
So on Substack, I write mainly about the culture wars. So that includes a lot of these sort of spiritual questions that are coming up more and more for people like me. I write a lot about the American media. I used to be in the newspaper business. I worked for the New York Times for three years when I was in my 20s. I like to excoriate them and say mean things about them. So Substack is really where I do the bulk of my work. I interview people like I interviewed you, Ben. And I write for, for Spiked on a freelance basis as well. But definitely go to my substack. It's a very active community. A lot of people like me, Gen Xers who are falling out of the leftist religion and falling into true religion.
- [27:00]
Ben Shapiro
And on the, on Substack, how do people find you there?
- [27:04]
Jenny Holland
So it's my name, Jenny E. Holland.Substack or you can Google saving culture from itself on Substack.
- [27:14]
Ben Shapiro
Fantastic. And get a Twitter, what have you.
- [27:20]
Jenny Holland
Getter is my name Jenny E. Holland. Yeah, Jenny E. Holland on Getter and on Twitter It's Semper Femina 21.
- [27:28]
Ben Shapiro
Semper Femina, which means forever female for the non Latinists following the show today. Jenny, I'm very, very grateful that you came on the show. Absolutely. In the new year, I'd love to have you back on and help digest the. The cultural events that are taking place because often we sort of one needs a Sherpa to help with that. Thank you so much.
- [27:53]
Jenny Holland
Happy to be there, Sherpa.
- [27:56]
Ben Shapiro
And thank you for sharing your personal testimony with us today. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, tomorrow. Merry Christmas, Jenny to you. Back up this short break.
- [28:18]
Jenny Holland
Enjoy.
- [28:22]
Ben Shapiro
Welcome back. So the final half of the show today as we can towards the end is with one of the people I think is is one of the, if not one of the foremost, if not the important military historians in the world right Now, Patrick K. O'Donnell, who will actually be hosting the the Christmas show tomorrow. Patrick, thanks for coming on the show today. I wanted to ask you because this is sort of Christmas time period. It is one of the things that I've been asking all of the guests on this Christmas Eve special is an element to do with the fact, you know, we're celebrating tomorrow the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I wanted to ask you two questions. Can you point to anything in the public sphere where you can say during the last course of the last year that you can say, I think this was the action of Jesus Christ acting in human events and whether there is perhaps anything in your own personal life similarly that you could look towards?
- [29:28]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
I think the President Trump in his salvation, the day that he was nearly executed was the hand of God, the armor of God. It was pretty obvious, evident, I think there in my mind that he was saved for a reason. And he is a historical figure of extreme consequence. And he's here at exactly the right time in the right place. And for me personally, things manifest themselves in many situations. For me, my faith. Steve asked me when I wrote my book, we were one, which is on my experience in the battle of Fallujah as a combat historian. I was a volunteer combat historian. I was in uniform and I was armed with a Marine rifle platoon through the entire battle and over a month. And then I spent three months in combat in Iraq. And it was a transformative event. And Steve asked me what was the most important aspect of that experience. I said to him my faith was reaffirmed and I went to Iraq. Almost, I want to say, agnostic to some degree. I had been through, you know, 12 years of Catholic school and had a deep faith, had a pretty good understanding of things. And right before the battle, I received in the mail the items that I'm wearing on my neck. One is a medal that was worn by a paratrooper in the 509 parachute who was part of the first combat jump of the United States in North Africa. He fought through North Africa. This is a 509. They were known as the Geronimos, were one of the most decorated parachute units. They received the Presidential Unit Citation. They were at Anzio and were hit by an entire corps, 50,000 Germans, including tanks, thousands of rounds of artillery shells. And he was one of the men that survived without a scratch. And they went from Anzio to southern France. And then they were part of the group that was trucked into Belgium to stem the tide. In the northern shoulder against the Waffen SS and Jochen Peiper. And specifically, they faced an epic stand against a SS Panzer grenadier division, a place called Sadzat. And these are lightly armed men that just had grit and tenacity with bazookas and mortars and M1 Garands and bars and grenades, and they somehow stopped the SS there. In the northern shoulder, which is the most crucial part, the other metal is. Or the other is a. Is a scapula that I've worn since Fallujah, ever since. And it was worn by. If you're familiar with the story, the catcher was a spy. This is Moe Berg, who is one of OSS's greatest spies behind the lines. He was able to speak nine languages, but he was part of the Alsos program, which was. They went after Germany's secrets, nuclear secrets in particular. The man that wore the scapula was his radio operator that went behind the lines with him. And they were in some of the most perilous situations, surrounded by Germans. In Rome, for instance, they hid in an attic. He hid in an attic while the place was being searched by scores of SS and German troops, somehow survives this multiple parachute drops. He even went in a small rubber raft on another mission individually. Right before Fallujah, this arrived, and he said, you need this more than I do where you're going. And I've worn them ever since. They're my most prized possessions. I mean, you know, fascinating story is I went swimming with my daughter about 10 or 12 years ago, and I took the medals and the scapula off, put it in the locker, and left without having them. And then, you know, I was alarmed. Within 45 minutes, I realized that. Where are they? They're gone. Went back and they were missing. They were gone. And I left a. Just a note with the front desk. I said, here, if anybody ever finds these, please contact me. Months passed, and I told my aunt, they're missing. She said to me, pray to St. Anthony. I did, and I prayed to St. Anthony. And within three or four days, I got a call that said I found the scapula in the metal in the locker. Would you like them back? I said, absolutely. And this. It's extraordinary.
- [34:41]
Ben Shapiro
How did that happen? I mean, you checked the locker room there, right?
- [34:48]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
It was gone. They were gone, and they were missing for months. And I left a note at the front Desk that said, if anybody ever finds these, the scapula and the metal, please contact me. And I left my phone number and I thought nothing of it. Months, months passed. I mean, I went swimming in May and it was July. She said to pray to St. Anthony Work. Power of prayer. I mean, it's something that manifests itself in my life. I've been very blessed. I had an extraordinary situation, health wise. Extraordinary things happened to me this year. I shattered my leg. Multiple things happened to me. And I was told that I had a tumor in my kidney. And every ultrasound, every mri, everything, the Cleveland Clinic said that you've got a tumor. And I just prayed. I prayed in the day that I went in, I went in for the biopsy and I went under and I talked to my surgeon, who's also a professor. I said, what's your experience on this? It's in the canal in the kidney. And he said it's generally cancerous and it'll have to be. We'll have to probably take the whole kidney out. And I never forget I woke up and I said, how'd the biopsy go? And. And they said there was no tumor, couldn't explain it. But I believe it's the power of prayer. I believe it. I was saved in Fallujah multiple times. I can't even a presence that said to me, don't. I mean, the first time was I was in a drainage ditch. Well, we were running from two snipers that had a direct bead on me and the men that I was with. And I'll never forget the bullets whizzed and snapped. They were so close to my ear. And it was the stories that all my World War II veterans told me. And I'm crawling and running and it was 600 meters at least. It was an enormous amount of the bullets were landing so close. And the President said to me, don't crawl any further. And a bullet landed right where my head was going to be, only inches away. And that was the first time. And then it was multiple things after that. When I went into a. I, we were clearing a house and I said pause. And the man in front of me, the Marine in front of me, was shot in the head. It saved my life. There was a machine gun on the other side. I mean, I can't. I just know that there is Jesus and there is God and my faith is unshakable and it provides you with a sense of never being alone and you can pretty much tackle anything.
- [38:01]
Ben Shapiro
Wow, that's a beautiful testimony. I don't personally have anything. I've never been under fire like that. But I can imagine the comfort and the assurance that having felt very closely the presence of God in those moments, those life and death moments that have endured through time for several minutes.
- [38:29]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
I had extraordinary things, too, that it was a. I had many people around me that were. There were. They were scared and they were, you know, rightfully so because of what we went through. But I had a sense of this presence. I felt the world around me and all my sentences were heightened and a sense of peace that I cannot explain because that place, Fallujah, was a kind of a vortex into another world. And it was an extraordinary situation where in some cases, I'm talking about my book, we were one where many of the men predicted their own deaths and they knew they were going to die. And it was a. There's a lot of extraordinary circumstances there. But I came away from it very much stronger in my faith, reaffirmed.
- [39:35]
Ben Shapiro
Patrick, we've got sadly two minutes now before we head into a break. Could you just tell me something? That feeling that you had when you were under fire, when you sort of commando crawling under constant sniper fire, do you feel in your heart the connection between that presence of God, of Jesus Christ watching over you, putting his hand over you and watching, watching every. Much like he did, as you said correctly, about President Trump in Pennsylvania. Do you feel the connection, the spiritual connection between that presence and Christmas Day, the birth of Christ? Do you feel in your heart that, that connection through time?
- [40:16]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
Yes, I do. And it's a. You know, I've often said that that experience, that peace that I felt when everything was blowing up around me and there was death everywhere, I hope to experience it again. And I, you know, it was, it was incredible.
- [40:42]
Ben Shapiro
Wow. Wow. And so those, those I carry just a miraculous medal. I noticed that you. And I also had the scapula here as well, which I wear the. When, when the Virgin Mary appeared, I think in the, in the 12th, 13th century to St. Simon Stock and gave him the first scapula, which is just basically a very tiny cut out of a monastic habit. That day has been called the most important day in English history. And it really created the mendicant. Kicked off the mendicant revival in England through relics of that, through Protestantism, I think continue to filter through and have a real impact in America today. Just for the folks who are listening, for either Catholics or Protestants who, who aren't familiar with either these devotionals, especially the scapular, the brown thing that you see Patrick wearing There, the Catholic belief as the devotional here, the promises behind the Virgin Mary is that if you die when you are wearing this because of the faith you have in Jesus Christ, you will be saved. And that has been a great motor I think as part of the development and the thriving of the classic faith in old merry England. Back in two minutes. After this short break, MyPillow is glad to announce that their Christmas extravaganza is finally here. Get this season's flannel sheets for as low as $59.98. They won't last long, so get them while you can. The famous my slippers. They haven't been on sale for over a year. Regular price $119.98 now only 59.98. The six piece towel sets are back in stock with extremely limited quantities only 29.98. With hundreds of Mypillow products, there's something for everyone on your Christmas list. From bathrobes, duvets, quilts, down comforters and so much more. Don't forget the classic collection pillows. At wholesale pricing for a standard pillow only 14.98. Queen size 1888 upgrade to a king for just a dollar. More body pillows for 29.98 or the multi use pillows for 9.88. So go to mypillow.com and be sure to use promo code War Room to save on all my pillow products. For example flannel sheets for as low as 59.98 or the six piece towel sets as I mentioned just before 29.98. But that's not all. They're extending their 60 day money back guarantee until March 1, 2025 plus free shipping on your entire order. Just go to mypillow.com and use promo code War Room. So as we now approach the end of the Christmas Eve special, I just wanna I say moved, Patrick, by what you were saying before and I wasn't sort of, I wasn't planning or thinking that the show would go into into quite so a profound and intense reflection. But seeing as we have done this and seeing as it is Christmas Eve, I'd like to ask you in the three or four minutes that we have left on this show and I flag up once again that you're actually going to be hosting the Christmas Day special tomorrow. Just tell me something for the folks who are listening at home, perhaps they're not as observant as Christians as they perhaps want to or as they would like to be. Perhaps they don't have any faith whatsoever. What would you say, how can you just. In the closing moments, as we concentrate on the Nativity of our Lord and Savior, what can you say to make the incarnation of God real for people, drawing on your own experiences of having been touched and saved, not only in the spiritual sense, but also obviously in the literal, physical sense.
- [45:20]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
I think it's a very personal thing in many ways. It's, you know, your faith in Jesus and God is a personal thing. Not necessarily does it manifest in the acts that you perform, but it's in your own personal faith that you have. And that's where my experience is. I've developed a very personal and strong relationship with Jesus and God, and that's been my. I think God manifests himself in different ways in different cultures, too, around the world. And I think there's an opportunity there for everybody to have that personal faith, which for me is just, you know, a special and extraordinary thing.
- [46:19]
Ben Shapiro
So beautiful to hear you talking throughout the show today. And it's very profound. You know, when you listen to someone talking about how they're under fire and they hear something within themselves, we all hear that voice at times in our lives. Probably not quite as an intense a moment as being under direct fire, but it's.
- [46:42]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
It was many times, too. It wasn't just once. Yeah. And I've learned to sort of recognize that and understand it and accept it and be grateful for it.
- [46:54]
Ben Shapiro
This is something that's at the heart of Christianity. When you go to church on Sunday, it's not just a cultural exercise of going through or a habit. There is, there should be. Sometimes it can be a bit dry. Mother Teresa wrote for many decades how her spiritual life was really quite dry on the inside. But the point is, Christianity is a personal relationship with God. And we know God because we know Jesus Christ. That's, I think, the most important thing. And that really is what the incarnation of God himself as a baby in a manger is all about. Right. That we can act God isn't some abstract, even though we might feel the presence of God. But God is not an abstract. There's a person there that can be known and loved.
- [47:45]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a profound and powerful thing.
- [47:51]
Ben Shapiro
Patrick K. O'Donnell Many, many thanks for coming on and sharing this testimony with you. This is Christmas Eve, so I think now, even according to the pedants, we can actually wish one another Merry Christmas, Patrick. Merry Christmas to you. Warren Possic. Merry Christmas to you and to our production team in Denver. Merry Christmas to you, too.
- [50:10]
Patrick K. O'Donnell
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- [50:47]
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