Episode 4154: The Rise Of The Technocrats And Their Hate For America

Summary

Podcast Title: Bannon’s War Room
Host/Author: WarRoom.org
Episode: 4154: The Rise Of The Technocrats And Their Hate For America
Release Date: December 27, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 4154 of Bannon’s War Room, host Stephen K. Bannon delves into the contentious debate surrounding immigration policies in the United States, with a particular focus on H1B visas. The episode features insightful discussions with a panel comprising Caitlin, Kathryn, Michael, Gavin Wax, and guest Mark Krikorian from the Center for Immigration Studies. The conversation intertwines critiques of American cultural priorities, the economic implications of immigration, and the influence of tech oligarchs on policy-making.

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1. The H1B Visa Debate: Perspectives and Arguments

Stephen K. Bannon opens the discussion by highlighting Vivek Ramaswamy's criticism of tech companies hiring foreign workers, attributing it to a cultural preference for mediocrity over excellence. He references Ramaswamy's viewpoint:

"Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long. That doesn't start in college, it starts young."
[00:00]

Kathryn counters by advocating for domestic skill development instead of increasing the number of H1B visas. She argues:

"The US should focus more on domestic skill development... a significant number of Americans would love opportunities if they had the proper training and skills to operate in those jobs fairly well."
[02:00]

Conversely, Michael supports the influx of global talent, asserting that attracting top-tier individuals strengthens the economy and maintains America's competitive edge:

"Let's bring in the best of Rice from all around the world. Let's really make our economy stronger. Let's become even more tech dominant."
[03:27]

Gavin Wax emphasizes the economic advantages of high-skilled immigration, noting that many Fortune 500 companies and Nobel laureates in the U.S. are immigrants or children of immigrants:

"America's ability to attract talent from around the world is basically our economic superpower... about 40% of American Nobel laureates in hard sciences this century are immigrants who came to this country."
[01:00]

However, Kathryn maintains that increasing H1B visas exacerbates the displacement of American workers, especially minorities in STEM fields, and stresses the need to prioritize American citizens:

"We should spend more of our dollars educating our own citizens to compete for these jobs versus saying let's increase... for employers to bring in individuals from India."
[06:00]

Michael rebuts by highlighting the immediate economic benefits and the risk of losing talent to global competitors if the U.S. does not act promptly:

"If we don't grab the talent now, someone else does. To grow the economy and create opportunities for Americans, why would you leave talent on the table?"
[06:52]

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2. Cultural Critique: Mediocrity vs. Excellence

Throughout the episode, a recurring theme is the critique of American cultural values. Stephen K. Bannon argues that the current cultural focus favors mediocrity over excellence, impacting the quality of engineers and professionals in the country:

"A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math or Olympiad champ... will not produce the best engineers."
[00:18] - [00:44]

This sentiment is echoed by Caitlin, who underscores the societal shift towards valuing superficial achievements rather than substantive skills and hard work:

"American job should be for American citizens... they take the foreign students because the foreign governments are paying full freight."
[07:44] - [08:08]

Gavin Wax further critiques the shift from a merit-based system to one that he believes undermines American workers, pointing out that the influx of foreign talent is not addressing the real needs of the American workforce:

"These are not substitutes. These are complements... but we need to improve the pipeline for underrepresented talent in tech."
[08:19] - [08:24]

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3. The Role of Immigrants in the American Economy

The panel engages in a robust debate over the economic contributions of immigrants versus their potential to displace American workers. Gavin Wax defends the role of immigrants, citing their contributions to innovation and economic growth:

"They're bringing in entry-level positions, middle-level positions to fill their companies... They end up creating these high-skilled immigrants who are founding Fortune 500 companies."
[01:00] - [02:00]

In contrast, Kathryn and Stephen K. Bannon argue that the current immigration policies are detrimental to American workers, particularly those from marginalized communities. Bannon criticizes the systemic favoritism towards foreign talent:

"The rot is in the engineering schools... Instead of taking American citizens... they take the foreign students."
[26:39] - [28:06]

Mark Krikorian, representing the Center for Immigration Studies, provides a historical perspective, explaining how previous efforts to reform H1B visas under the Trump administration were stalled and ultimately reversed by the Biden administration:

"H1B visas are supposedly temporary for skilled workers... we do nothing but support a pipeline that displaces Americans."
[22:21] - [24:01]

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4. Policy History and Current State

Mark Krikorian discusses the legislative attempts to prioritize American workers in H1B visa allocations by ranking applicants based on salary offers, a measure aimed at ensuring that only the highest-valued foreign workers are admitted. He explains how these regulations were delayed and ultimately nullified:

"President Trump pushed for regulations that prioritize the highest salary offers first... Biden canceled the thing."
[22:21] - [24:01]

Stephen K. Bannon reflects on the political maneuvers and resistance from within the administration and tech industry, framing it as a failure of the Trump administration to enforce immigration reform:

"This is a total scam. We're talking about the right stuff... It's a total scam."
[37:54] - [39:56]

Jack Posobic from the Center for Immigration Studies elaborates on the loopholes and systemic issues that allow foreign workers to remain in the U.S. beyond their temporary visas, further displacing American labor:

"They’re using immigration basically to discipline Americans and not be uppity and not ask for high wages."
[37:54] - [40:13]

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5. Conclusion

Episode 4154 of Bannon’s War Room presents a fervent debate on the merits and drawbacks of current U.S. immigration policies, especially concerning H1B visas. Host Stephen K. Bannon and his panelists explore the intricate balance between fostering economic growth through global talent and protecting American workers from displacement. The cultural critique underscores a broader concern about societal values and priorities affecting the nation's ability to produce and retain top-tier professionals.

The episode concludes with a call to action for policy reform, emphasizing the need to prioritize American citizens in the job market, limit the influx of foreign workers in critical sectors, and focus on developing domestic skills to sustain the country's economic standing.

Notable Quotes:

• Stephen K. Bannon:
  "Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long."
  [00:00]

• Gavin Wax:
  "America's ability to attract talent from around the world is basically our economic superpower."
  [01:00]

• Kathryn:
  "We need to focus on domestic skill development... instead of bringing in individuals from India."
  [06:00]

• Michael:
  "If we don't grab the talent now, someone else does. Why would you leave talent on the table?"
  [06:52]

• Mark Krikorian:
  "H1B visas are supposedly temporary for skilled workers... we do nothing but support a pipeline that displaces Americans."
  [22:21]

This episode serves as a comprehensive exploration of the ongoing immigration debate, providing listeners with diverse perspectives and in-depth analysis of policies shaping America's workforce and cultural landscape.

Transcript

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Ramaswamy explained why he feels tech companies choose to hire foreign workers over Americans. He boiled it all down to culture. He wrote in part this. Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long. That doesn't start in college, it starts young.

[Caitlin]

A culture that celebrates the prom queen.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Over the math or Olympiad champ or the jock over the valedictorian will not produce the best engineers, he continued. Trump's election hopefully marks the beginning of a new golden era in America, but only if our culture fully wakes up. A culture that once again prioritizes achievement over normalcy, excellence over mediocrity, nerdiness over.

[Michael]

Conformity, and hard work over laziness.

[Gavin Wax]

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, in this particular case, I think are exactly right. America's ability to attract talent from around the world is basically our economic superpower. The fact that in particular we've been able to attract high skilled immigrants quite reliably in this country over the past century or so is why we have this enduring leadership in science, tech and business. So just as an example of all Fortune 500 companies, about half of them were founded by immigrants or the children of immigrants. And of the Nobel laureates, American Nobel laureates who have received prizes for the hard sciences this century, about 40% of them are immigrants who came to this country. So again, this is our superpower Republican here. I wonder what your view on this is, because this is happening within the Republican Party. I mean, these are two top advisers to trump the MAGA world who, you know, are kind of framing this as the true believers who say, you know, we asked for stricter immigration policies that didn't mean coming with a carve out for high skilled workers that they say are taking American jobs here.

[Kathryn]

Look, I think with all Due respect to Mr. Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, they should focus on saving federal dollars for the taxpayers and not immigration policy. I understand some of the points that Catherine made and I agree to an extent, but I think the US should focus more on domestic skill development. Studies also show that H1B1 exacerbates employers hiring individuals from outside of the country when they could potentially hire minorities. For an example, which we know there's a shortage in the STEM fields. There are a significant number of Americans who I think would love opportunities if they had the proper training and skills to operate in those jobs fairly well. So why not start and focus there? I'm not of the support or mindset, Caitlin, that we should let in more than the 60 plus thousand that were already letting into the country. Do we have some deficits? I certainly understand that point. Again, to what Kathryn was sort of alluding to. But I think by focusing on increasing domestic skill development, you can decrease the furtherance of those deficits by virtue of saying, you know what? We're going to spend more of our time, more of our dollars, educating our own citizens to compete for these jobs versus saying let's increase to 100,000 or maybe even more for employers to bring in individuals from India, which is a predominant country where many of them come from. I don't agree with that at all. And I think folks in the MAGA world have every right to be angry with Vivek and Elon Musk, to say.

[Michael]

I agree with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy. I think they're pointing out the reality that we're living, you could say, and I hear Michael's point. I disagree with it, though, because I think it misses the fact we want to get to the place where we can maximize the use of our own talent in this country. Let's bring in the best of Rice from all around the world. Let's really make our economy stronger. Let's become even more tech dominant. That's the way, in fact, to elevate the whole country and to create more opportunity for Americans of all kinds in the tech field. So I don't know why on earth we wouldn't want to grab all the talent out there, especially because if we don't, our competitors will.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

So what are we going to do now? That guy in the corner, Jaeger's his name. He's some kind of war hero. Shot down five Germans in one day. They say he's a natural born stick and rudderman. Express liaison man for the Air Force. Nothing you know of any problems with him? Only one. What's that? Holding him back. Major Taylor Yeager, Sir. We were just talking to Slick here about the sound barrier. Is that right? And we feel that the X1 is ready to have a go at it. We think the X1's got the answer to go beyond Mach 1 if there is any behind.

[Michael]

So what do you think, Gary?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Well, I'll tell you what. Half these engineers never been off the ground, you know. I mean, they're liable to tell you that the sound barrier's a brick wall in the sky. It'll rip your ears off if you try to go through it. If you ask me, I don't believe the damn thing even exists. Waitress, a drink from Mr. Yeager.

[Michael]

Here.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

No, thanks. I got one. So do you think you want to have a go at it? I might. But since, as you say, this sound barrier doesn't really exist. How much? How much you got? I'm just joking. The Air Force is paying me already. Ain't that right, sir? Why, sure, Yeager, but. So when do we go? Well, how about tomorrow morning? I'll be there. See you there. How much are you paying him? I think it's $283.

[Michael]

A week?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

A month?

[Kathryn]

Look, I'm not against legal immigration. I think most individuals who voted for Trump aren't necessarily against legal immigration as it pertains to H1B. But Americans didn't vote for Ramaswamy. They didn't vote for Elon Musk. They voted for Donald Trump in part because of his tough stance on immigration illegally, but also because I assume they believe that the President elect wouldn't increase the number of individuals coming into the country even legally. That could potentially negatively impact or disproportionately affect Americans as it pertains to certain types of jobs. And so, again, I go back to my original premise. We need to focus on domestic skill development. I understand what Mayor, Former Mayor de Blasio was saying. We got to bring people in with the goal of getting to that point maybe in the decade or so. I get that, but why not limit the cap where it's at and focus over the next decade of increasing skills within our own people? Most Americans don't want to see good paying American jobs going to people from India or China.

[Michael]

Yeah, but wait a minute, wait a minute. The competition, the global competition is happening right now. And if we don't grab that talent. Sure, Michael, I hear you. But if you don't grab the talent now, someone else does. And if you really want to grow the economy so you'll have that opportunity for Americans, why would you leave talent on the table? You know, grab what you can now and build toward the goal you're talking about. It's not either or, Catherine, final word.

[Gavin Wax]

Yeah. I would add that there is basically no evidence that bringing in high skilled talent over the past century has reduced employment for Americans. In fact, the opposite. That these, these are complementary jobs and that they end up creating these high, high skilled immigran. Come in. Whether they're founding Fortune 500 companies or otherwise end up creating a lot of opportunities for American workers and making American scientists more productive.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Yeah, okay.

[Kathryn]

What Americans?

[Caitlin]

Wait a minute.

[Kathryn]

What Americans? Because again, to the point that I made earlier, we know that studies suggest that minorities are underrepresented in these fields. There are a host of other Americans who are underrepresented in these fields. So perhaps they are creating jobs for some Americans, but it certainly aren't Americans that I know are people who look like me. Catherine, with all due respect. So again, I am vehemently against this. We're allowing enough of these people to come into the country as is.

[Gavin Wax]

These are not substitutes. These are compliments. These are compliments. These are not substitutes. We need to, we need to improve the pipeline for underrepresented talent in tech.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Okay.

[Gavin Wax]

Doesn't mean, you know, kicking out all the global talent. Well, we've got one Democrat at the.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Table who agrees with. Hold on to Michael.

[Michael]

Look, President elect Trump said that we should provide a visa or working permit to everybody who graduates from an American college.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

I agree. Let's do that.

[Michael]

I mean, we have foreign students who come here who study. All we're doing is subsidizing other countries if we're forcing them to go back and not deploy the talents and skills they got here in our country. I hope he listens on immigration to people like Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, but also takes into account his desire to reduce grocery prices, to reduce housing prices if he wants to accomplish that. Immigrants play such an important role in our economy across the continuum. Across the skills continuum. Right from low skills jobs, hardworking to high skills jobs. Founders, engineers, they're really a big part of what makes America as prosperous as we are. And as your last panelist said, in many ways it's our superpower that we have the best and brightest and hardest working people from across the world that want to come here and live the American dream and be part of making our country safer, stronger and wealthier.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Reasons I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.

[Jack Posobic]

And where do people like that go.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

To share the big lie? MAGA media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. War room.

[Caitlin]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

It's Friday the 27th of December in the year of our Lord 2024. If it was not on your bingo card about, we'd have a firestorm. And one of the central issues facing this country as we try to make America great again, this situation about our sovereignty and the corollary to that, immigration, particularly legal immigration, is what we're talking about. Then you haven't been paying attention. A firestorm in the last 48 hours. We're going to break it all down today and tomorrow as we do kind of two special worms going to be fitting in other news too, particularly the hunt for the speaker of the House. Ukraine, the Middle east, the economy, capital markets, all of it. But we got to focus on this. And right there, just a series of lies and misrepresentations. I have been on this topic, folks, for, I don't know, 12 years, 14 years, right? And it was a central part of the 20 President Trump's rise to power in 2014 and 15 and his victory in 16. I was honored to be along with Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner in the room with President Trump when on the 25th floor at Trump Tower came for the first time in history, all the tech oligarchs, all of them came to pay homage to then President Trump after this incredible come from behind victory in 2016. And Stephen Miller and I had our little notes and we were all set to go on HB1 visas. We thought that would be it in the room with these guys. And Elon was right. There was a meeting put together by Peter Thiel. HB1 visas kind of took second or third place. The Central issue they wanted to talk about was, guess what, the Chinese Communist Party, although most of them were kowtowing to the Chinese Communist Party and trying to figure out how to have a rapprochement and to work with these demons. They were pretty upset. They were pretty upfront about how their intellectual property was being just stolen right right in front of them to their face. And that Obama's administration and previous administrations hadn't done anything about it. Had not done anything about it. Okay, here's how we're going to break it down. We've got Mark Kakorian from the center of Immigration Studies, I think one of the top experts, if not the top expert in the country on this, HB1 visas, plus other reports about foreign labor taking away American jobs. Because everything you just heard right there in pro HB1 visas are bald faced lies. And I come at this, folks. I didn't come to this in the last 48 hours. I've been working on this one for 10, 12 years. It's absolutely outrageous. American jobs for American citizen workers. This is a scam, a total scam. And we gotta have a throwdown. Let's have it now. Like Frankie Pantan, what Frank Pantagulous Pantagelos says in the Godfather, let's hit him now while we're strong. We got Jack Posobic, Raheem Kassam D, Gavin Wax, Mark Kakorian, Laura Loomer, Rosemary Jinx, Darren Beatty. Yep, that is the 27 Yankees right there. We're going to take a short commercial break. It's quite appropriate. Johnny Khan from Breitbart, One of Andrew's favorite songs, American Heart, the great anthem of the Tea Party, the precursor to the Trump Revolution. We're going to take a short commercial break. We're going to be back as we kind of get down into the basics about the right stuff, what it took to make America great and what it's going to take to return the United States of America and her citizens to their former greatness. Short break. It's obvious the unthinkable continues. Most Americans know something is very, very wrong. The people in charge keep telling you that everything's fine and to stop noticing, but you know better. That's why self reliant folks are investing in emergency food storage and you should too. My Patriots Supply, the nation's largest emergency preparedness company, are the ones you can trust. 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American job should be for American citizens. President Trump and I actually disagree with President Trump said a couple of months ago he Said, hey, you know, on every college, every college graduate, right? And every graduate of a community college should have a, should have a green card stapled to their diploma. Remember, he said this, this is after he came back from having dinner with David Sacks and these billionaires out. The tech billionaires in San Francisco. He said, every graduate, foreign student, graduate, and every graduate, foreign student, graduate from community college should have a green card attached to diploma. I said, president Trump on the show, I said, we have tremendous respect for you, we love you, we're your base. But I've got another recommendation. I'd like to put an exit visa on every college graduate, foreign student that graduated from college here in 30 days to leave and go back home and help make their nation great again. And we shouldn't take any foreign students in community colleges. That should be, that should be, that should be for American citizens, particularly for African Americans and Hispanics. You're never going to get. They're never going to get up the economic chain unless we do this. This whole thing about, oh, we want to get all this, and they're only geniuses. That's H1B visas. That's not what it's about. It's about taking American jobs and bringing over essential oil. Become indentured servants at lower wages. Like I told those guys in the room, hey, if you got an Einstein every 25 years, come to us. Maybe we can make an exception for Einstein. Maybe if it's proven the whole thing's a scam. This thing's a scam by the oligarchs in Silicon Valley to basically take jobs from American citizens. Give them to what, Become indentured servants from foreign countries, and then pay them less simple to let him into the. To the. To the. Through the golden door. Gavin Wax. I gave that interview that kind of kicked this thing off, I think, at your gala a week or so ago that went viral. It was from the Free Press. Barry Weiss, the Great Free Press. You've been on fire, brother. You're like one of the, you know, you're like one of the. You're like Socrates in Athens. I mean, you've been on fire the last 24, 48 hours on this very topic. Tell me, what are we actually talking about? What is the real story here, Gavin?

[G]

Well, we're talking about the heart of the MAGA movement. We're talking about the very core of President Trump's mandate, and it is migration, both illegal and legal. And what we've seen has been a completely ridiculous shift for many people, including Vivek Ramaswamy who ran on a campaign of ending the H1B racket all of a sudden turn a new Le American culture attack Americans, calling them lazy, calling them uneducated, calling them incapable of filling these jobs when reality, as you mentioned in the open H1B is a scheme by these big tech companies for indentured servants. They bring over not the best and the brightest. They're bringing over entry level positions, middle level positions to fill their companies. They're paying pennies on the dollar, they're abusing these workers, giving them little to no benefits. They can fire them at any time and send them back home. It's basically moderate indentured servitude. And in the mean meantime, we're losing hundreds of thousands of what used to be good paying middle class or entry level jobs for Americans, young Americans of all stripes and all backgrounds. It's absolutely disgusting. It's an insult to the American people and it needs to end. And I think they opened the floodgates yesterday on X with comments from many of these tech executives that showed their utter disdain for the American people, for the heartland, for our culture. And this was really turning into a class debate. It was Turkish turning into what you mentioned, elites versus the people, elites versus the populists. And they couldn't argue on the merits because at the end of the day, they simply don't want to pay American wages for American jobs. They want to pay Indian wages for Indian workers in American jobs. And that's race.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

By the way, I'm one of the biggest proponents of India still the acting or interim chairman of the Hindu Republican Association. I have the greatest respect in the world for Modi and Modi is all about making his country great. He's probably the greatest nationalist on the world stage today. But I want to get back in a second. We'll come back to you in posobec about this Jock culture versus valedictorian culture. I got news for Vivek. The reason the United States is the United States is because of that the can do attitude of the right stuff. And that is what we call jock culture. And that was personified in that incredible, incredible movie. Come back in a second. You just hang right there. I want to bring Kerkorian in because he knows the facts. Kerkorn. Mark, correct me if I'm wrong and if, if my team can throw up the Guardian story I sent this morning. There's a Guardian story in April of 17 that we finally got an executive order signed. And that's after three or four months of working every day on this thing by President Trump. But that executive order kind of set us in the right direction, but never actually got executed. Give us the history just, just from the Trump era of the H1B visa and why this is still an issue today. Because I thought we put this thing to bed. Because here's my point. I want zero. When I was at Breitbart, we covered the story of the Disney workers in Orlando that had to train the H1B visa folks coming in to take their jobs. And that. That thing went viral. It's one of the reasons President Trump won the Republican primary in 2016, and one of the major reasons he was president of these United States. Mark Ekorian from cis.

[Jack Posobic]

Well, the place you gotta start is that we. These H1B visas are supposedly temporary for skilled workers. The problem is we give them out by lottery. In other words, they're numerically capped. There's a certain. There's 85,000 of them a year. But we give them out randomly to people who submit. We get thousands of applications. And so what you end up with is a lot of mediocre talents. What President Trump did in that executive order that you had worked on was to say, okay, fellas in DHS come up with a regulation that gives them out, gives the visas out based on the highest salary first. In other words, the people that actually the companies say they value by offering them the most money, that now it sat in DHS for a long time. They were debating whether they were allowed to do this by law. Then they wrote the regulation, and it just sat in the White House because regulations have to be approved within the Office of Management and Budget. And you were there, not me. But as I understand it, people in the White House sat on that thing. It was finally. They finally pulled the trigger on it, like a month before the end of the administration. And what happened is Biden just canceled the thing. So this obvious rule that would wipe out these companies that were used like Disney visas never happened. And it still hasn't happened.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

This was even a compromise inside the White House at first for folks like myself. The hardliners said, just do away with the entire program. There's other programs out there. If Einstein. If Einstein comes around, if Einstein comes around, you know, maybe we'll fit in. But I am. This is, to me, the people that say, oh, we got to suck up the best and the brightest from the world. I said, that's like imperialism. That's. That's imperialism because we have to allow and help these countries make themselves Great. Or you're going to have a world on fire. One of the problems, you got all the capital and all the talent go to certain nodes, right? And the oligarchs feed off that using these people as indentured servants. But even then, even then agreeing to the meritocracy point, President Trump pushed that. When President Trump looked around because remember, he's flying at 60,000ft cuz he's running the fricking world. When he found out it wasn't done after the election, he said what in the hell? And that's why in December 2020, and folks, you remember this show in December 2020, it was called War Room Impeachment. And we were, oh no, it was basically war room. But that was the firestorm of the election, of stealing, of the election. The pandemic was still there. President Trump had a couple, three things on his mind, but realized this has never been implemented. Mark. And that's why he said get this thing done. I don't know how this thing got held up. And this is the thing about the people, not just the White House, but DHS and the administration, the administrative and deep state that don't want any changes. And they report to the easy money overlords on Wall street and the tech oligarchs. Kerkorean.

[Jack Posobic]

Yeah. You know, I think you were showing right stuff is actually a useful example because who helped with our rocket program? It was German scientists. And so that's a real thing there. But we had a program to bring German scientists here to help with that stuff. 15 years. Over 15 years. You know how many people we brought here? 1,600 people. A little more than 100 a year. That kind of tech immigration is actually something that everybody's for. But what we're not, that's nothing like what we're doing now. We're doing mass foreignization of our tech industries. And that's not, it's bad for American workers and it's also bad for American security because this is an essential national security area, broadly the whole tech area. And we're, you know, bringing, we're relying on foreign sources of talent instead of growing our own talent. There's really no excuse for it.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

It's no excuse for it. The reason they want to do it is they want to bring over indentured servants that don't have the rights of Americans. They want to bring them over here at lower wages and they fire American citizens. And my whole point, the rot is in the engineering schools. Here's instead of taking American citizens, African Americans, Hispanics, white, working class into these engineering schools who are paying the particularly the land grant universities, like schools I went to, where they're paying the state tuition. They take the foreign students because the foreign governments are paying full freight. This is because these deadbeat professors, right, and their retirement program, their tenure, that's how they're paying for it. That's the gap. The whole thing, the entire thing from top to bottom, is a total scam. A total scam. We're talking about the right stuff. Kakorian brought in. Hang on a second, Mark, we're going to break. You brought up a project Paperclip. Wow, that's a live fire exercise right there. Jack Bosoba, Gavin Wax, Raheem Kassam, Mark Kakorian on a Friday in late December, 2024 in the war room. Back in a moment.

[Caitlin]

To indoctrinate the mind, here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Okay, we got Marcoian for the center for Immigration Studies. He is the best and the brightest. We got Gavin Wax. The Gavin Wax. Raheem Gosam is on deck on Joyce. A moment. I got Poso. And Jack, thanks so much for doing this, taking time away from the family. I know you're trying to take a couple of days off. You've got a great new podcast on. Okay, I love what. Talk about that for a second. What? This is a. A firefight. I want your assessment, particularly the right stuff, of what really made America great. Because that's what MAGA is about, is the right stuff. And also, I hate to bring a sore subject to you and Darren Beatty because you're fanboys, the free speech absolutists. I don't know, man. So tell me. Give me the right stuff posto first, then we'll talk about free speech absolutism.

[Caitlin]

Well, Steve, let me just say this. This isn't a firefight. I saw Axios this morning describing it as a Civil War stuff. Firefight. This isn't a Civil war. This is a clarification. We are clarifying a few things. What does America first actually mean? Does America first mean something based on, I don't know, spreadsheets? Does it mean an abstract number that people can pluck out of some study somewhere? No, no, no. Absolutely not. America first means the American people first. Want to be very clear about that because it seems like some people still do not get this, even after all these years. America first means the American people first. We are not vaccine first. We are not tech company first. We are not military industrial complex first. No, we are American People first. That is what the nationalist populist movement underpinning MAGA is all about. All right? So make sure you understand that if you want to come to the party, if you want to walk in the door, just understand where you're coming in. That if you come over here and try to tell us America first means something else at you're wrong. And look, you know, going back to what makes America America, America was made by the pioneers. America was made by the adventurers. America was Neil Armstrong. America was the Wild West. America was settling, man. Here's a couple of words for you. Manifest Destiny. Yeah, we are going to talk Manifest Destiny. We talk Greenland. We can talk Panama. Let's talk Canada too, while we're at it. We'll talk all of it. But understand something, that this is the country of adventurers, of explorers, of pioneers, which, by the way, that pioneering includes pushing out into space. And that's why so many people have been supportive of SpaceX and Elon Musk and so many other things. But at the bottom line is we are not going to lose sight of the American people that we are fighting for. The MAGA movement would not exist without the immigration debate, period, Full stop. If the immigration debate did not ex, then you could have President Jeb Bush, and I think maybe some of these guys would be totally fine with President Jeb Bush. You know, it's interesting, Steve, to me, by the way, that the CEOs and the Marxists seem to have the exact same immigration policy. I wonder why that is. I wonder why that could be. It's very strange to me. But look, this is about the people who have fought for this land, who have died for this land, who have gone overseas, who have been lied to in some cases, like the global war on terrorists, but the people who actually have bones in the ground here and fought for this country. That's what it's about. And so anyway, and by the way, we are the most welcoming country in the world. We're the most charitable country in the world. But don't sit there and tell me that we can't compete if we can't be importing cheap labor from overseas, because it ain't true and it never was.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

I just want to give a little bit of precision. That is a great, great rift there. It's American citizens first, just like in the Roman Republic. It's citizenship.

[Caitlin]

Yes.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

You're an American citizen. You get a special deal. You get a special deal. You're not treated like garbage, like Biden said, or like the tech oligarchs want to treat you like garbage. Remember what happened in Disney. Remember what happens to all these things? And this is a whole bald faced lie. Oh, we need the Einsteins, yo. If Einstein shows up somehow, just like Werner von Braun. Give me the rockets. We'll figure out the CIA will work on project Paperclip Deuce to get that guy in here. It has nothing to do with that. That is a total scam. And Raheem and Will Upton over at National Pulse have done a magnificent piece on that. Corcoran's got some other stuff about American labor. I want to get to a second, but Gavin, I want to get to this jock culture versus valedictorian culture. Valedictorian culture, dude, we tried that. That's what these weirdos. And that's where there's a collection of weirdos, right? From Silicon Valley, right? Tried to run the country under Biden's thing. They've had at it for four years. They got old time religion with Trump because they saw the tectonic plate shift and they converted or quasi converted. And we love converts. We love converts. But like any convert, you kind of want them sitting in the back couple of aisles to make sure this conversion actually takes. They don't come up and lead the. They don't come up and lead the congregation in the first week. Gavin Wax, what is your big problem with Vivek's valedictorian culture versus Jack culture, sir?

[G]

Well, listen, it was a total masks off moment for Vivek. He wasn't talking about the substance of H1B. He wasn't talking about how it's a scheme to bring over, you know, $20,000 a year cooks or $30,000 a year plumbers. He tried to deflect the entire thing and ridicule American culture, American children, how they're raised, how they're brought up, talking about, you know, free time, talking about hobbies, talking about sleepovers, talking about popular sitcoms from the 90s. It was a very angry scre, completely anti American in its nature. It's a complete shift from the guy that put on a cowboy hat and wore an American flag vest on the campaign trail. And it just screams of phoniness and this condescending arrogance that's prevalent among these tech oligarchs and their allies in politics such as Vivek. I mean, American culture does not need to be fixed. That's our largest export as American culture. That's our greatest value is our culture, our freedoms and the way that we are brought up in an environment where you can be creative where you could be dynamic, where you can have fun, where you can have a life. We don't need to imitate the east and these tiger moms and this insane utilitarian, soulless culture where everyone's just focused from the moment they're born to increase shareholder value or to pump up the GDP on the margins and to increase productivity. That's not what drives innovation. Innovation that gave birth to Silicon Valley, that gave birth to the American tech industry was created out of American generations who grew up in the hippie movement in, and grew up loving all these different facets of American culture, American suburban culture. It did not get born in an Indian slum. It didn't get born in a tenement, in a communist bloc tenement outside Beijing. It got born in California during the height of Pax Americana. And that's what we need to return to. We need to return to America looking like a John Hughes movie and not looking like some dystopian hellscape future ruled over by technocrats who are bringing in a new underclass class of American slave laborers who are bringing down our wages, who are bringing down our cost of living, quality of living and driving up our cost of living. Meanwhile giving an entire new voting bloc to the Marxists like Bill de Blasio, who wanna send this country even further down the path of Third Worldism. So Vivek has it totally upside down, totally wrong. It makes everyone question whatever he was saying on the campaign trail. If it was true, if it was not true, if it was wrong, if he was being legitimate. But again, don't let them gaslight, let them lie and smear Americans. This has nothing to do with bringing the cream of the crop, top tier talent. They're bringing in plumbers, they're bringing in cooks, they're hiring people for $60,000 entry level jobs that should be going to young Americans. They're hiring people for middle management jobs at 100,000 that should be going for 300,000, whatever it may be, undercutting Americans. If you want the top talent, you get the O1 visa. That's going to bring in the Einstein's, okay, And we can bring those people in. We can bring in 1500 over 15 years like operation Paperclip. It's honestly incredible that the tech are now, you know, the biggest advocates of bringing over Nazi scientists. I never thought I'd see the day. But listen, this is an issue that is again the core of the MAGA agenda. And we're going after it hard. We need to push back on it hard because if they win, we lose.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

And Gavin, you've been pushing back hard. Just hang on for a second because I want to get to this whole thing about shutting you guys down. And Laura Loomer is going to join us in the, in the next hour. This whole thing though, even about the Einstein's, you got to be very careful. This is his imperialistic mindset that we don't need. You know, this whole thing, you got to take every best and Bryce throughout the world. They got to be here. If you do that, the world's going to be a bigger nightmare and we're going to have. It's going to be an absolute desire. Hang on one second. Kokorian, just walk me through H1B visas plus these new reports you've got out. You're the best guy to actually say how the. How the corporatists and the tech oligarchs and the lords of easy money on Wall street, one of their biggest focus is to make sure Americans don't have jobs, right? Because they think Americans demand too many high wages so they want to bring in the rest of the world to compete with them. Sir?

[Jack Posobic]

Well, they're using immigration basically to discipline Americans and not be uppity and not ask for high wages. And it actually starts well before you get to H1BS. It starts by the mass admission of foreign students and universities, which is unlimited, there are no numerical caps on that. And then when they graduate, if they graduated in a STEM field, science and tech, they get three years of a supposed internship. So they're basically masquerading as students on a student visa when they're actually just foreign workers trying to get an H1B visa. And then they spend the whole time on an H1B visa, which is temporary, supposedly trying to get a green card. So really to deal with this, you need to go upstream and limit the admission of foreign students, especially in these sensitive fields. But really frankly in any field, because otherwise you end up putting in setting in place. But this pipeline that ends up displacing Americans, they still get jobs. It's not like this increases the unemployment rate. What it does is push Americans into other fields so they become lawyers or accountants or something else, which are perfectly honorable things to do. But we need to be growing domestic tech talent, which we did for instance, after Sputnik in the late 50s, the Russians sent up the first satellite. We all freaked out. Schools went big, big into tech, education in height in elementary school, high school, college. And the result was along with a little dash of Wernher von Braun was landing on the moon. That's the model we need to follow. A little bit of a handful of genuine Einsteins, but helping out a broad, domestically developed workforce.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Real quickly just hit that is 1.1 million foreign students. And, you know, I don't mind people maybe come over some limited basis of college, but then immediately they gotta leave. Just talk about the scam when they come one, they're shoving people out because they're not getting training. But a lot of these folks never leave, Mark.

[Jack Posobic]

Yeah, they don't. I mean, for a lot of people. Now, people from developed countries, generally speaking, do go back if, you know, we're getting students from England or Japan or Korea, but we're especially those from India and China, use foreign students, beaming a foreign student as a way to live here permanently. And you know, they are. Even though they're paying full freight, they're still subsidized because universities don't have to pay taxes. They're subsidized by the taxpayer, even if they're private universities. And that's a resource. Training at our top universities is a vital resource. And what we're doing is we are devoting that resource to people from overseas instead of developing our own talent. And we've got plenty of it here.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Mark, real quickly, where do people go to get these new reports? You guys are putting out the best information still where they go, because this is going to. This is. This is just the top of the first inning on this issue.

[Jack Posobic]

We're [e-mail] center for Immigration Studies, cis.org and if people who like snark and sarcasm can find me on Twitter. It's spelled X, but it's pronounced Twitter. Arc S as in Stephen, Mark S. Krikorian.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Brother. You're the best. Todd Bensman. Mark Krikorian brother. Arthur over there, just fantastic. Okay, short break. Gavin's gonna stick with us. We got poso X pronounced Twitter. I don't know, man. Free speech, absolutism. Is it a real thing? We're asked. Gavin Wax, Jack Bassoba, Raheem Kassam's going to join us, Laura Loomer, all. Next in the War Room.

[Caitlin]

Your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

So while DC Dranos dropped by the war room, we're gonna hit DC on in a moment with Gavin Wax, Jack Bosobic. I guess it's Jack Day, Jack Bassobic, your thoughts? I want to get to this. What's happened over at Twitter, formerly known as X, to suppress the voices of Gavin Wax. And Laura Loomer and D.C. drano and yourself, sir, what's going on?

[Caitlin]

Yeah, look, I would love to know what's going on, because I was told that Twitter was the free speech arm of the Free Speech Party. I was told that Twitter was PvP. Let's have at it. Vox populi, vox day. Vox populi, vox day. And then all of a sudden, you know, people are posting polls, people are posting stats, people are going back and forth. They're having the dialogue, they're having it out. Yeah, it gets a little heated. Of course it gets a little heated. But we were told that was the point. And now all of a sudden, it feels like there's a rug pulling operation going on. Kind of like the hawk to a girl with their little hawk to a coin down there. And suddenly it's like, oh, whoa, whoa. No, not for you guys. No, not for you guys. You guys get. And people are getting. Losing their check marks. Owen Schroyer, too, by the way, from the great. The great infowars, the other war room out there, and also losing his blue check. And people are trying to figure out what's going on, what's. How is this all happening at the same time. And it's. If it's predicated on its H1B situation that I'd. I'd really like to know why? Because I see China, they say, oh, we're losing to China. We're losing China. Guess what? What? China ain't migrating all of these tech workers in. They're just doing it by building up their own people and then bringing some temporary professors over from the US and, yeah, they're stealing it. Of course they are. But you know what? Xi Jinping knows that if he starts screwing over the Chinese people en masse, he's going to be the first one that gets strung up. And by the way, this whole idea of, you know, the nerds versus the valedictorians and the jocks and all this. Look, look, we turned the entire country over to the valedictorians during COVID We tried Rule by Nerd. It was not good, to say the least. It was horrific. It was a catastrophic failure. Covid is all of the argument. The test. The experiment has been run. It was a devastating failure. So please don't sit there and tell me that this is how we have to reorient America. And by the way. By the way, you know who did really well during COVID The bodybuilders, the jocks, the gym rats. Those guys did great.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Yeah, because they stood up and Said they're not going to close down the gyms, not going to wear these masks. Hang on one second. By the way, you think it's turbulent the last couple days. This is going to get a lot more heated, I think, and a lot more turbulent. Particularly look at Capital Markets. Birchgold.com, the end of the dollar empire. Birchgold.com Bannon get the modern monetary theory. We're gonna get you smart on H1B visas and all the immigration scams they try to run, but also the monetary scams. Modern monetary theory, the idea that broke the world because we got $300 trillion of global debt and we're about to have a big margin call, folks, you're gonna be ringside for that and you're gonna be the smartest guy in the room. Gavin Wax, this whole, how does this, how do we take this since they're suppressing your guys voices, how do we move this conversation forward to tell folks we've had rule by nerd, we're not going back there. America is based upon the right stuff and the superpower, the young woman at the beginning of the coal opens wrong. Our superpower are American citizens. They're the ones throughout, for every patriot's grave, back to the beginning of the revolution, have fought for this country, stood up for this country and bequeathed this country to us. Brother Wax.

[G]

Yeah, listen, I mean, you're right on the nose there, Steve. We are a country after all, we are a nation, we are a people. We're not just an economic zone, we're not just a place that you could extract wealth from and send it back home. This is a place that's built up by families, communities, neighborhoods, towns, states. And these are real people. And what has happened over the last few decades, the last generation or so, is we've opened our borders. We've flooded this country with illegal and legal migrants, suppressing our wages. We flooded this country with drugs, with opiates. We've sent tons of jobs, good middle class, working class jobs overseas. Then we told everyone in these small towns, these forgotten towns, I'm here in western PA right now, tons of towns around here that have been left behind by the federal government. We told these same people, hey, why don't you go learn to code, why don't you learn to program, that'll get you a job. Get off your lazy ass and go do some work. They go, they go into the stem, they go learn, they go get in tons of debts to get these degrees. They expect a well paying job waiting for them on the Other side. And what do they get instead? They're at best training their replacement before they get fired. Or they're basically told, no, we're not gonna hire you. And that's also under this nexus of dei, which is completely taken over the entire HR industry in this country. And they are basically telling people, no, you're not gonna be getting these jobs if you're a white male. You're not gonna be getting these jobs if you're a native born American. You're not gonna be getting these jobs if you expect a decent wage. You're only gonna be getting these jobs if you're working 80 hours a week for 40 hours of pay. It's an incredible slogan that they're advertising. But, you know, that is what it is. It looks like someone' so I'll leave it at that.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Gavin, social media, where do people follow you today? Before you kicked off Twitter, how did people get to you?

[G]

Well, I'm not kicked off yet, thankfully, but I did lose my blue check. It's very weird. I've been paying and supporting X since Elon took over. I've been generally very much a fan of Elon. So what's happened in recent days is very concerning to say the least. I think it just goes to show we really struck a nerve with this. But you could follow me. Avinwax on X, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, all the rest. I've been putting out a lot of content about this. I'm gonna be doing an article very soon for the National Pulse and Raheem Kassam Talking about this H1B racket, talking about the student visa racket, talking about how legal, quote, unquote legal. Mass migration is just as, you know, horrible for this country and our future as the illegal immigration. It's two sides of the same coin. So we gotta tackle it, we gotta push back. This is the mandate for MAGA and we can't surrender it.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

This is the great realignment of that could be like 1932 that you have. Many people have not been our side before are on our side. And then you've got people that may be on our side, but are really not on our side. You got to sort it all out. He's lost the blue check, but he's still special. Yes, sir.

[G]

We got to bring in these unions. I mean, they know what they're talking about. We need good middle class, working class jobs that you could support a family on, you can own a house on, on a single income. You don't have to get tons of degrees. You don't have to commit compete with the world. These are American jobs. They should only be competed for by other Americans. And this is our nation, this is our future. And we shouldn't surrender it for hundreds of thousands of honestly fraud. Because what they're doing in India, it's fake degrees from fake schools. They're coming over here, they're getting on the job training and they're screwing over Americans coming from the top school. So it's not a matter of merit, it's a matter of shipping wages.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Thank you, brother, appreciate you. Some of the IIT and some of the schools are pretty good, but we'll get into all that in the second hour. But remember, the superpower of the United States, what is it? It's the American citizen. It's the backbone of our civic society. The little platoons. And guess what? They're pretty damn good. Gonna get you through some tight spots. Oligarchs. The nerds in Silicon Valley should learn that what they're drafting off, short break, DC Drano on the other side.

[Jack Posobic]

That's why we created Sacred Human.

[G]

Really trying to fill this gap of quality supplements and of course the beef.

[Jack Posobic]

Liver being our flagship products.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

For those who don't know, beef liver.

[G]

Is loaded with highly bioavailable ingredients such as vitamin A, B12, Z, zinc CoQ10, et cetera. And because it is 100% grass fed and natural, your body is able to absorb these nutrients far better than taking any other synthetic multivitamin or any other.

[Jack Posobic]

Synthetic vitamin in general.

[G]

So we have some other amazing products.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

But if you'd like to check us.

[Jack Posobic]

Out, you can go to sacredhumanhealth.com and.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

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