Senator Graham (7:57)

Thank you, Mr. Bessant. Before I begin my questions, I want to reemphasize how appreciative I am of your diligence in the process that we've gone through vetting here here in this Senate. I appreciate the more than 3,000 pages of supporting material you've provided, as well as the countless hours you and your staff have offered to respond to questions from members of this committee. Let me be clear. You followed all of the applicable law and met the Committee's longstanding diligence standard. Your process matched that which has applied to nominees in every previous administration. And I want to go in my first question to you to the Tax Cuts and Jobs act, which Senator Wyden and I have both mentioned already and you've mentioned in your remarks, the attack on this statute, this law, which is law, I remind everybody it is the law now, it was passed in 2017, is that it was a tax cut for the wealthy. I appreciate you, Mr. Bessant, noting that it will be a four plus trillion dollar tax increase if we do not extend this law. And a point that I would remind all of my colleagues is that if that 4 plus trillion dollar tax increase happens, it's not just going to be something that impacts the wealthy. It is 2.6 trillion of it. The majority of it falls on people who make less $400,000 for a family with two taxpayers for under $400,000 per year. That's the number that President Biden chose to say he wanted to protect it. 2.6 trillion of this tax cut hits those making less than $400,000. Moreover, massive amounts of it hit pass through entities, small businesses across this country. This is not a tax cut for the wealthy that we are talking about. It is a tax increase on all Americans, the majority of whom are in the lower and middle income categories. My question to you is one of our pivotal tax is to make sure that this tax increase does not happen. Can you give us your perspective on the impact that would occur in this country if we allowed this $4 trillion tax increase to happen?

Mr. Bessant (10:32)

Senator Crapo, thank you for this and thank you for the meetings over the past few weeks. I've enjoyed working with your staff and this is the single most important economic issue of the day. This is pass fail that if we do not fix these tax cuts, if we do not renew and extend, then we will be facing an economic calamity. And as always with financial instability that falls on the middle and working class people, we will see a gigantic middle class tax increase. We will see the child tax credit haft, we will see the deductions halved. So it will be what we call in economics. It has the potential for a sudden stop. And as I said, traditionally with these sudden stops it falls on working Americans.

Senator Graham (11:38)

Thank you. And I would just say to you, you may be aware of this, but the Tax foundation has indicated that if we do sustain these tax cuts and protect them from expiring and stop this tax increase, that the extension of this policy would increase the growth of the GDP in the United States by 1.1% over time. Similarly, and I don't know how they came up with the same number, but the national association of Manufacturers indicates that if we don't extend this tax relief that there will be a 1.1% reduction in growth of jobs and development in our economy. It seems to me that as we are talking about what to do for America, that protecting America from a 1% reduction versus a 1% growth in GDP is a critical objective. Could you just give a little bit of perspective? I know you just answered this question in another context, but could you just give a little bit more perspective on those kinds of dynamics? I'm sorry. I'm going to try to keep the five minutes, and we've only got about 15 seconds left of mine, and I want to be sure everybody else stays on time, so I will, too. Could you quickly respond?

Mr. Bessant (13:03)

Well, Senator, I would just say that we saw the power of these tax cuts in 1819 and going into January of 20 before they were interrupted by Covid and the great success that we had.

Senator Graham (13:18)

Thank you, Senator Wyden.

Senator Wyden (13:21)

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me say to the nominee, I've got four questions that I'm going to ask, and if we both can keep it brief, I think we can get to all of them because I think it really frames for us what the debate is all about. I'm going to start by talking about the future of Direct File. This is the program that helps our people who choose it to save hundreds of dollars when they file their tax return. Last year, the IRS launched it. It was enormously popular among taxpayers, but of course, the tax software giants in their big lobby just hate it. They want to shut it down. Now, the filing season starts January 27, so it opens in 10 days. And millions of taxpayers around the country have already been notified that they are going to be eligible to use Direct File this year. So I won't do this for every question, but I'd really like a yes or no or no on this one. Will you commit to keeping Direct File up and running? If you're confirmed.

Mr. Bessant (14:33)

I will commit that for this tax season that Direct File will be operative and the American taxpayers who choose to use it will. And if confirmed, I will consult and study the program and understand it better and make sure that it works to serve the IRS three goals of collections, customer service, and privacy.

Senator Wyden (15:02)

I appreciate the answer. It means that taxpayers are going to save who choose to use it because it's voluntary, hundreds of dollars and will have a chance to see once again how popular it is with practically everybody except the tax prep software crowd onto tariffs. Donald Trump, with no plan and no strategy, says he's going to put across the board tariffs, blanket tariffs on all imported goods, which means that our workers and our small businesses are going to get clobbered with additional taxes on practically everything they buy from other countries. My question here is, who would pay these tariffs, Americans or foreign countries?

Mr. Bessant (15:50)

So this Senator Wyden, just to understand, so I can frame the answer correctly, do you believe that these tariffs are a consumption tax Increase, I believe these.

Senator Wyden (16:06)

Tariffs, you can call it whatever you want in terms of trying to gussy it up. They're going to be paid for by our workers and small businesses. All through the campaign we heard they weren't, that foreign countries were going to pay it. I think that's baloney. It's going to be paid for by workers and small businesses. So your response?

Mr. Bessant (16:26)

Yes, Senator, I would respectfully disagree. And the history of tariffs and tariff theory, optimal tariff theory, does not support what you're saying. Traditionally we see that the current. If we were to say use a number that has been thrown around in the press of 10%, then traditionally the currency appreciates by 4%. So the 10% is not passed through. Then we have various elasticities. Consumer preferences may change. And finally foreign manufacturers, especially China, especially China, which is trying to export their way out of their current economic malaise, they will continue cutting prices to maintain market share.

Senator Wyden (17:18)

That's an academic view of it. But what I know is, is the history of this is it clobbers people of modest means. They're the people who are going to get hit. And all through the campaign there was a big show that was going to be paid for by foreigners. Not. So two other questions I want to get in and I already made it clear. And you and I talked about this. I'm for a tax code that gives everybody the opportunity to get ahead. You and I talked about my friend Bill Bradley. He and I have been working for this for years. Do you believe the tax code should treat wages differently than it treats wealth?

Mr. Bessant (18:01)

Look, in any tax system that advantages and creates distortions, it is a change that. Senator, it is a decision that was made when the tax codes were written. And so every tax codes involves the trade offs and distortions in favor of other games.

Senator Wyden (18:31)

It sounds to me like you do believe that it's fine to treat wealth more favorably. I couldn't disagree more. The idea that a dollar earned by a hedge fund manager has more value than a dollar earned by a teacher or a factory worker, I just think it's a disconnect with the American people. One last question and that is about the legislation that was written in this room. That was the biggest transformation on clean energy in American history. That is our package that basically said the tax code as it relates to energy is a broken down mess. And we basically said we're going to have a technology neutral system. The more you reduce carbon, the bigger your tax savings. Now there is a big effort in the Trump administration to reverse it. I think that's going to be bad for the economy, but it is going to be damn good for China because we are in an arms race on clean energy with them. Are you going to be on the side of people who want to unravel this, Senator?

Mr. Bessant (19:32)

Senator Wyden, just so we can frame this for everyone in the room, China will build 100 new coal plants this year. There is not a clean energy race. There is an energy race. China will build 10 nuclear plants this year that is not solar. I am in favor of more nuclear plants. And I would note that the IRA as scored by the CBO is wildly out of control in terms of spending on the upside.

Senator Wyden (20:06)

Well, first of all, the clean energy package does protect nuclear because members on both sides of the aisle in this room wanted it to be that way. But if you're going to talk about fossils, the United States has achieved a greater level of energy security than we've had in generations. Oil and gas production is at record highs. And it's not just that, but it's about clean energy. And I'm very troubled by your position denying that we're in an arms race with China on clean energy, because we, we definitely are. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Graham (20:35)

We do need to move on. I told Senator Wyden he could have those four questions, but I want to remind everybody else we've got a five minute time limit. He deserved those extra questions. Senator Grassley.

Senator Grassley (20:47)

Mr. Congratulations. I want to start out with where you and I talked about something in my office. And you remember that tongue in cheek comment I made to you that you're going to be asked by the chairman. We answer all of our letters and everybody that comes to the Hill says yes, they're going to. And I said maybe you better say maybe because most people don't keep that promise. So I just want to remind you if I write you a letter on my oversight responsibilities, I'd appreciate it if you'd answer it. Now to my first question. My Democratic colleagues believe you can put that up. My Democrat colleagues believe the only solution to our unsustainable debt and deficit is higher tax rates on and that ends up being on job creators and families alike. However, history proves that high tax rates fail to raise significant revenues. Taxpayers, workers and investors are smarter than that. In other words, they're smarter than we in Congress that thinks that at one time a 93% marginal tax rate would bring in more revenue than a 70% tax rate or a 50% tax rate or a 30% tax rate or a 40% tax rate and so on. But as you can see from this card, Congress isn't too smart because the taxpayers decide how much money they're going to bring in into the federal Treasury. Now, on the other side of the ledger, federal spending is at levels we've never seen outside of war and recession and still growing. So I'm making a statement to you, but if you'd like to comment on whether or not we have a fiscal imbalance primarily or a spending problem rather than a revenue problem.

Mr. Bessant (22:51)

Senator Grassley, I enjoyed visiting you in your office and will remind you that when we were talking about the American agriculture that I may be the first Treasury Secretary nominee in a long time who knows what a section is.642 acres and involved in the farming business. And yes, we do not have a revenue problem. The United States of America. We have a spending problem that historically, for the past 40 or 50 years, revenues, federal government revenues have averaged about 17 to 17 and a half percent of GDP and spending has been slightly over that, leading us to a three and a half percent budget deficit, which is manageable because we have roughly 3.8% nominal growth, 1.8% real growth, 2% inflation today, as you stated, and to be clear, this is one of the things that got me out from behind my desk and my quiet life in this campaign was the thought that this spending is out of control. We are spending about 24, 25% of GDP. So as you said, 6.8 to 7% deficit. We have never seen this before when it is not a recession or not a war. And I am concerned because several times the treasury of the United States has been called upon to save the nation. Whether it was the Civil War, the Great depression, World War II or the recent COVID epidemic. Treasury, along with full government and Congress has used its borrowing capacity to save the Union, to save the world and to save the American people. And what we currently have now, we would be hard pressed to do same.

Senator Grassley (24:56)

My last question is one I ask lot of people to come from Treasury. While I oppose tax hikes on individuals, families and small businesses, I've long championed sensible policies geared towards shutting down tax loopholes and providing tools to IRS to detect tax cheats. A primary example is my legislation that I authored in 2006, the IRS, which whistleblower law. It's brought $6 billion back into the federal Treasury. This program could raise billions more if IRS would use it to its full potential. So I hope I can count on you if you're confirmed, and I think you'll be confirmed, to be supportive of this whistleblower program and work to ensure its full use to its full potential.

Mr. Bessant (25:51)

Senator Grassley, we are in complete alignment on this program.

Senator Graham (25:59)

Thank you. Next would be Senator Cornyn.

Scott Bessant (26:05)

Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Benson, welcome to Washington D.C. you're getting a taste of what it's like.

Senator Grassley (26:12)

Here, which is a out of body.

Scott Bessant (26:15)

Experience for most people who are not acquainted. I happen to represent a state that has the 8th largest economy in the world. We think we understand the formula for economic growth and prosperity and opportunity, which are low taxes, a reasonable and modest regulatory footprint and opportunities for people to prosper and by prospering, invest and create opportunities for other people to, to pursue their dreams. We think there's a lot Washington can learn from that formula. And it sounds to me like you agree. One of the strange experiences I've had here is that so many of our colleagues, principally on the other side, think that the money that you earn is not actually yours, it's the federal government's. Okay, John Cornyn right there with Scott Bessant. Some of the, some of the responses. Scott Besson, I think his response has been absolutely fantastic. We do want to get in the limited time we've got, we're going to get. Some of the Democrats come hard at Scott, but he said right there the, the, if we do not pass the Tax Cut and jobs act of 2017, which we worked so hard on in the, in the Trump first term, that we're going to have economic calamity. He also says something I think is very important, we say it all the time, is that we don't have a revenue problem. Roughly between 17 and 17.5% of GDP has been the revenue pretty solid. We have a spending problem. And this gets back to the House Freedom Caucus just gave this proposal and I think they're tipping their hand. They're saying, hey, they want a four, the debt ceiling want a $4 trillion lift for two years. Well, hey, I'm just a simple guy. I do the math. It looks to me like $2 trillion a year in deficits. They also lay out a whole host of cuts that have got to come. But once again it's getting to this 10 year program. I said at Politico the other day, I want to stop the 10 year. It's not that I don't like planning downrange, but we're in a crisis. You can see this in the bond market today. It made the questions of Scott Bessen, Scott Bessen just said right there because I know Scott very well. He came back he left the hedge fund business to come and take a salary I don't know of 190,000 bucks a year or 200,000 bucks a year to serve his country during a time of a crisis. We're in a crisis. And finally the political class is waking up here. Why? Because the Democrats just had orgy of spending with the Republican establishment that backed him up over the last four years and they created the oligarchs that they can, that they whine about. Now in his farewell address, it was fine when the oligarchs and the platforms work to suppress MAGA and the MAGA movement and President Trump, okay, but now that you guys have been tossed from office, one of the reasons people were tired of that and hated that, all sudden it's bad. Scott said we have a spending problem here is what I think. Everybody has to reorient themselves to it. And I'm going to be adamant about this. I don't care about 10 years. I don't care about five years right now. I care about this year and next year. This essentially what you have to do is you're an investment banker and you go in to help a company finance, particularly companies that turnaround or somebody that's, that could go into bankruptcy. You have to do a restructuring or turnaround. You got to be very hard. You say, I can't hear happy talk. Don't give me a three year projection, don't give me a five year projection. I need the next hundred days, the next six months, the next year. And what you do is you go back and look at the trailing 12 months. Let me see what you just did. Not even over the last year, just the last 12 months. So it's not even your fiscal year or your economic year, just the 12 months. And I want to monitor that and see how it's doing. We just announced yesterday the record, record deficit record in history. Deficit for I think is up to December now for the first launch to a fiscal year. Fiscal year launches October 1st. We're in a crisis and people have to start thinking of this as a crisis. By that I don't need cuts and I don't need conservative wins over 10 years. They're selling you something. And this is even for the Freedom Caucus. We have to get focused. Don't give me a 10 year doom, give me, I want to know now what it's going to be this year, next year. You're signaling to me already, and you're the hardest core budget hawks that it's 2 trillion a year in deficits. Am I supposed to think anything differently? Want my freedom caucus guys to call me? I'll reach out to you guys. But is that a solution at 2 trillion per year and where's Doge Elon and these guys have got to step into the plate with, with, with Russ vote. I'm not saying even the cuts are going to take place but I'd like to see if you're talking about 2 trillion at 1 time and now it's a trillion. Give it to me baby. We need it now. If that's a trillion dollars, that's not over 10 years. We need to know where these cuts are going to come now because anything that's not now is happy talk. Reality in the Hill said we're going to have these calamitous but we need to have that. That is healthy. It's not unhealthy. What is unhealthy is to avoid this. What is. You notice this in your own personal life and people do it that we talk about the credit cards, we talk about the taxes you put in the drawer. People have a tendency. I can't deal with them. Too overwhelmed. I put away. It's, you know, what is Scarlett O'Hara. I worry about that tomorrow. That's for another day. We don't have another day. We have today and tomorrow they have to be addressed. Paradigm Press if you like global capital markets strategy, geostrategy. Jim Rickards been fantastic. Go to Rickards war room. Rickards with an S rickardswarroom.com you get access to his newsletter, you get access to his books. This is one of the great thinkers. We're really proud. What a high level contributor and somebody that's not going in the Treasury Department. So we get to keep him. Rickardswarroom.com we're taking a short commercial break. When we return we got Pam Bondi, Lee Zeldin, Scott Bessant all in the hot seat today.

Stephen K. Bannon (32:33)

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Scott Bessant (33:54)

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Mike Lindell (35:52)

He is the biggest demon of them all. I really believe that he's attacked me. I've been on his show a couple other times. We're taping right here and about. I guess it's a tape show live, but he's never cut anything out of it, everybody. But also, I wanted to tell you all, this is my 16 year anniversary of quitting all my addictions. I think we got a picture there. There it is, everybody. That picture was taken when drug dealers actually did an intervention on me. And if I'd have thought what, you know, years later, what that was going to become, I mean, it was just. It's just been a miracle. It's been God's miracle. I set up the. Lindellrecoverynetwork.org everybody, if you know anybody in addiction. Lindellrecoverynetwork dot org that's the one that Keith Ellison is attacking here in Minnesota every day. He ties me. Today, though, we're actually doing a commercial for the crosses that you all got exclusively at the War Room Posse, the one I wear every day. And you guys get. I believe it's. If we put that up, I think it's 30% off that. The War Room Posse. There it is right there. You guys save 30%. This is a War Room exclusive right now. And you guys, it's been amazing. It's been an amazing journey. I'll tell you. I also have my book, my book on the. Available today at the website for the War Room Posse. You can get it autographed if you want to check that out. But go to War Room. I mean, go to MyPillow. Go down to your. Steve. Steve. Click on it. There's all the towels we put on sale yesterday. 2998. All the 20, 25 towels came in. And here's a big surprise for the War Room Posse. Everything you get today in celebration is ships for free. His shipping is on me and my employees. And I just want to say, Steve, you guys, the War Room policy in the War Room. You guys have been a blessing to me. I would never thought 16 years ago what was to come years later. Helping Steve Bannon help save the country. Steve, you've been a very blessed.

Scott Bessant (37:56)

Hang on. Put that. You're very blessed. And we're selling the crosses. That's what Pacman's on you. I'm gonna let you go. I want to make sure people go to the crosses. Go to mypillow.com, promo code. Hormy. Get the discount. Get the crosses. Let's get that. Let's get that photo up before we go. Those are like the guys. You look like the guys I was in prison with. You're a real convict, Lindell. Now you cleaned up. You can see the holy spirit coming through you of how nice you look today. Versus your convict look.

Mike Lindell (38:24)

Exactly. Well, the dealers actually took that picture. One of the dealers, when they did an intervention on me, I had been up for like 12 to 14 days back then and, and with no sleep, and they took that picture. He says, he goes, you know, you've been telling us for years you're gonna come back and help us out of addiction. He said, he took that picture. He says, you're gonna need that for that book you keep telling us you're gonna write. And that is the picture on the book that I have. So it's all, it's all come to fruition. Big miracles, everybody.

Scott Bessant (38:54)

Big miracles. Big miracles to come. Mike Lindell, thank you very much. We'll see you in the afternoon show, brother. Go wrestle with Pacman. This David Pakman's a demon. Picked on my kid sister and she was trying to get the Satan clubs out of the schools. Remember that. Let's go back to Scott Bessant. Let's go back to the treasury grilling of the potential of the future Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessant.

Senator Cassidy (39:17)

I'll try. Let me compliment you on substantive answers. Sometimes we get people here who just rope a dope and they'll have a set of statements such as has been just delivered in all due respect to my colleague, and they just rope a dope. And you actually give substantive answers. I thank you for that, by the way. I am also, Lindsey Graham alluded to it going back to tariffs which Senator Wyden spoke of. I've been very concerned that countries like China manipulate environmental regulations. You point out that they're putting building 100 coal fired plants over a period of time and that whatever we do will not have an impact on global greenhouse gas emissions because China is putting up so many. I believe I've learned that that is called an externality in economics. When we met, we discussed the foreign pollution fee, which would put a levy a tariff on those carbon intensive products coming from countries like China roughly commensurate with their avoided cost of not controlling it. Now, I would think that my Democratic colleagues would like that because that's clearly a way that they are manipulating the world economy to steal jobs from the United States and simultaneously increase global greenhouse gas emissions. Comments on such a foreign pollution fee.

Mr. Bessant (40:33)

Senator Cassidy, I enjoy, greatly enjoyed our discussion and the extensive presentation you gave me when I visited with you. And this, this is a very good question because, and I believe it is one for your Democratic colleagues to understand whether they would be in favor of the equivalent of a carbon tariff that Senator Graham is in favor of it. And I think this is a very interesting idea that it could be part of a entire tariff program because I think President Trump hasn't taken office yet. But if confirmed, I look forward to working with them on various strategies. Some that could be specifically aimed toward carbon, as you say, others that could be aimed toward unfair trade practices, unfair financing practices.

Senator Cassidy (41:35)

So if you will, there's externalities that a tariff can address. Those externalities in of themselves hurt the pocketbook or the job prospects of an average American. Let me move on. I think you would agree with that. I applaud your goal to get our debt to GDP ratio down to 3% or percent of our GDP down to 3%. But you studiously say that we can't talk about things like Social Security. And I think that's because routinely if we talk about Social Security, we presume that there's going to be a cut in benefits or a raise in taxes. I think we spoke when we met. I and others have a bipartisan plan that that would create a pension investment fund separate from the Social Security trust fund, and that just like we do with our 401ks invested in the broader economy and use the proceeds from that to offset the upcoming 25% cut in Social Security benefits that will occur if we don't address this problem. And just so folks get that under current law, when the Social Security program goes in, soldiers solve it. In eight years, per CBO, there will be a 25% cut in benefits under the plan I and others have endorsed. It's a pension investment fund in which we again would invest in the broader economy with all the safeguards to keep the government from interfering. I mention that because it seemed that other advisors to the president, incoming president, have spoken of creating an investment fund to benefit Mr. Lutnick, I think has, Mr. Paulson did on the campaign trail. What are your thoughts about that concept? I think they spoke about it as sovereign wealth. I'm speaking about it as a fund to bailout Social not, by the way, all risk borne by the fund, none of the risk borne by the beneficiary. She would get her scheduled benefits.

Mr. Bessant (43:22)

What are your thoughts on that, Senator Cassidy? First of all, I want to emphasize that President Trump has said that Social Security and Medicare Care, they will not be touched.

Senator Cassidy (43:35)

And I believe, but I'm saying touch in a positive way, not cut benefits, not raise taxes, indeed increase benefits and take that 25% cut off the table, just to make that clear.

Mr. Bessant (43:45)

No, no, I understand. And those, those would not be touched. One of the tragedies of this blowout in the budget deficit is that we have to get our short term house in order to start before we can start implementing the smart plans such as yours. I do believe that there is discussion to leverage the asset side of the US Balance sheet as we discussed in your office, in favor of a fund, whether it's a sovereign wealth fund, something as you discussed, a supplemental fund. So that is very much in the mix. I look forward to getting back to you on it. President Trump hasn't taken office yet. If confirmed, this is something that I think could be very exciting because we always look at the debt of the United States and we have fantastic assets that could be earning leveraged or used for multiple revenue generating opportunities.

Senator Cassidy (45:07)

Thank you.

Senator Graham (45:07)

Thank you, Senator Warner.

Chairman (45:09)

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations, Mr. Bessant. It's good to see you enjoyed our meeting. I've got some specific questions I want to ask but I just, and I don't want to litigate this now, but I do feel as someone working with Senator Crapo and others when we took on, I still think the most comprehensive Poach, Simpson, Bowles and we took arrows from each side and I'm looking at any kind of pro growth policies possible. But I just respectfully want to say there is not an industrial nation, first world industrial nation in the world that gets anywhere close to meeting their revenue needs. And I'm not proposing that America spend anywhere like the Europeans at 17 to 18% of GDP. It's never happened historically. It's not going to happen in a Trump administration or future Democratic administrations. So I just, you know, we'll have a time to talk back and forth on this, but I just, I can't let some of this go without at least offering something that there's not an economist around that wouldn't concur. We got to bring down rev, we got to bring down spend, but the revenue side alone is not excluding that. We're never going to get to a balance. I do want to raise on a more positive note again something I worked closely with the chairman on and actually worked with your predecessor on and was very proud of that relationship. I disagreed with Secretary Mnuchin on a lot of things, but I found a lot of things to agree with him on. And one was a relatively narrow part of the financial sector called community development financial institutions, CDFIs. Under the previous Trump administration we put about $12 billion in. This serves access to capital for underserved communities. Under Senator Crapo's leadership, we built a bipartisan CDFI caucus. 12 Ds, 12 Rs. It's tough to get 24 bipartisan senators agree on anything. It's kind of low hanging fruit. There are things we can do to continue to expand this area, creating a secondary market. We've got some bipartisan legislation there trying to reward patient capital. A lot of these institutions now have tier one equity, but they've got to get patient capital. And again, Senator, Crap, when I've worked with the current administration, would want to work with yours on something called the Economic Opportunity Coalition. But can you say a word or two about how you view.

Scott Bessant (47:28)

What you're seeing already is, is that they're disagreeing on some of the tax policy. But at least with Warner and some of the more sophisticated financial guys, I think they're engaging, Scott, in the types of discussions we want to have about using the balance sheet of the United States. We talk about the debt all the time. The assets of this country are enormous. And are we using those in the smartest way possible to create maybe funds that invest in the United States? The balance sheet just kind of sits there. So I think you're going to have some very sophisticated, educate people. Look at that. Warner, right there, disagrees. Remember Scott saying, hey, we got enough revenue at 4.5, $5 trillion. Enough's coming in. You got to cut spending or to cut spending to get that six and a half or six down to five somewhere, you got to cut a trillion dollars. If you're not going to touch entitlements, which I agree right now, you cannot touch them because the American people are not convinced that you would do anything but screw them over. You're gonna have to look at discretionary. If you're gonna look at discretionary, you gotta look at defense in the social programs. That's what it is. It's not simply bodies, it's also programmatically. And somebody's gotta take a hard look at this. I'm gonna be harping on this because we're just kidding ourselves and having a fantasy talk. I consider this a turnaround. It is a turnaround. Some tough decisions have gotta be made. And you gotta go in with the mentality it's a turnaround. President Trump's coming back. The American people said, hey, we can't take any more Biden. We gotta turn this thing around. President Trump's the guy. But we have to have a meaningful discussion about the finances of this and the economics of it, how it's going to be financed. It's not sustainable. Where we're not close to being sustainable. My Patriot Supply. Talk about sustainable. Make sure your life is right now. My patriot supply. My patriotsupply.com Bannon the number one company in the prepper industry. These think preppers were flakes? Not so much anymore. Prepare for tomorrow.

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Mr. Bessant (50:47)

That after the Tax Cuts and jobs act of 2017, now we've had several years to be able to see what happens. And now I believe the statistic you.

Scott Bessant (50:54)

Gave is the top 50% of earners.

Mr. Bessant (50:56)

In America now pay 98% of the taxes. Did I hear that correctly? Because I've heard over and over again.

Senator Graham (51:02)

That is only the wealthy, only the big companies that get it.

Scott Bessant (51:05)

I would encourage, quite frankly, every Oklahoma.

Mr. Bessant (51:08)

Company that's a small business to ask their CPA this year when they're filing their taxes.

Senator Graham (51:14)

What if the tax cuts and jobs.

Mr. Bessant (51:16)

Acts expires next year? What would my taxes be next year? And have small business owners ask that question of their cpa and I think they will be quite surprised based on.

Scott Bessant (51:27)

All the rhetoric say this is only.

Mr. Bessant (51:28)

About big companies and wealthy people that every small business will quickly find out.

Scott Bessant (51:32)

Oh it's with Scott Bessen. We've been following treasury all morning. We're going to continue on our Rumble Channel and on Getter. Is that correct? Both of Those will continue on with the testimony of Scott Bessant. I may be jumping in there on both of those to give some commentary. We're going to be back at five. Charlie Kirk's on pickup at noon. We'll be back at five. Update on Pam Bondi's day two of a confirmation, how Lee Zeldin did at EPA and of course Scott Bessen at Treasury. Right there you see a lot of the discussion we're having about spending, taxes, all of it. We're getting a lot more of that. Like I said one more time, this is a restructuring. This is a turnaround. You have to have. You have to be very tough. Tough but fair. We've got to stop this happy talk about 10 years this 10 years that it's what this budget, what this deficit is and the next deficit right now. If we can't get those to under a trillion dollars in both years, we're kidding ourselves. Has to happen. You can't continue to add this. Besson's got $7 trillion of treasuries he's got to sell. In this current year. Inflation's not going to go away. It's only going to get worse. Look at the 10 year bond market as we've trained you to look at. 10 year bond market is telling you right there it's going to get more expensive. Inflation is not going to go away. Has nothing to do with President Trump's economic plan. Right. Right now the financing part of it is going to drive inflation. Shemaine Nugent joins us. Ma'am, you're a health expert, you're a bestselling author, you're a podcaster, all of it. All of us need tips on how to get in better shape, how to live a healthier lifestyle, myself included. I know that comes as a shock to the audience. What is your number one? What is your number one recommendation, ma'am?

Chemain Nugent (53:13)

Hey, Steve. Well, thanks for having me. Yeah. I've been in the health and fitness industry for 44 years and I always see people making the same bad choices and they want to start a New Year's resolution, but it doesn't stick because they're trying to make big changes fast. My number one advice is start small. And it's way easier to stick with it that way. And the first thing I'd look at is your diet. But it's tough to overhaul the whole diet overnight. I mean, I like chocolate chip cookies. I'm not going to give those up. But starting with one simple change like swapping out one bad habit like drinking Sodas for one scoop of field of greens in your water. And believe it or not, Steve, that one little tweak is going to help you start feeling better and noticing the difference.

Scott Bessant (54:05)

So what would be the difference? You're an expert in this. If you stop the Diet Cokes or you stop the Cokes worse or the Mountain Dews and you go to a scoop of field of greens, what is it first that you're going to feel and why is it better?

Chemain Nugent (54:21)

Well, for me, I go off how I feel. I'm 62 now, and certain things don't work for me anymore. Ted and I are both hunters and we pretty much live off the land, but especially during the winter, we can't always find fruits and veggies. And quite honestly, I don't trust the grocery store stores. So to feel better, I like field of greens, I get more energy. And you and I were talking, you said, boy, you're going to have to have a lot of energy to be married to Ted Nugent. That's why I take field of greens. Steve.

Scott Bessant (54:53)

I didn't want to say you the parental supervision, but you're the parental supervision. That's full time. What is field of Greens give you an energy boost? I know it's good for diet, it's good for health because they're not, you know, they don't have the powders, they're not artificial, it's organic. But do you get an energy boost also?

Chemain Nugent (55:09)

I am at times kind of the parent in the room. I do. I will put a scoop of field of greens in water and I hand it to him and I'll just say, drink this. And he doesn't question me, which is great. But the reason I like it is I have done my research. Doctors develop field of greens carefully and every fruit and every vegetable has a specific health benefit, like heart, liver, lungs, metabolism and even healthy weight. But you know what I really love about it?

Scott Bessant (55:39)

Yeah.

Chemain Nugent (55:39)

It gives me all the energy. My stomach feels flatter. But they've got this better health promise where if you start taking it, you go to your doctor and your doctor doesn't notice the difference in your blood work and in your overall health. You get all your money back. Like, who does that? For me, it's great.

Scott Bessant (55:59)

What is it? People come to you, I'm sure, all the time, because you're one of the biggest names in the business. Why is it field of greens versus other things that you've seen?

Chemain Nugent (56:09)

Again, for me, I've had a lot of sponsors, people request to be a sponsor and My number one thing is send me the product. I have to try it first. I have to make sure I like it. And both Ted and I do. And that's the number one reason. Again, as we age, it's all about when you wake up in the morning like Ted and I will, the number one question is, how'd you sleep? How do you feel? And overall, I know that field of greens is working because when I don't take it, when I'm traveling and I miss it, I don't feel as Good.

Scott Bessant (56:44)

Go to fieldofgreens.com right now. You get a 20% discount. Put in promo code Bannon. That's field of greens. You guys are used to this. Fieldofgreens.com, promo code Bannon, 20% discount. Discount. Chemain, do you have social media or is there any way people can also follow you?

Chemain Nugent (56:58)

Yeah, absolutely. I'm all over social media. I have a show right here on Real America's Voice called Faith and Freedom. I do have a new book out called Abundantly well, and I talk about all of these different things that you can do. But yeah, I'm all over social media.

Scott Bessant (57:15)

Chemain Nugent, thank you very much for doing this and thank you very much for keeping Ted healthy.

Chemain Nugent (57:21)

He's a patriot and a hero and as are you. And we thank you for what you're doing, Steve. God bless.

Scott Bessant (57:30)

Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you. Okay, Charlie Kirk's up next. We're going to be back five to seven tonight. If anybody is in the general area, I think Mo and Graysheen put up the. We're having an event tonight. We'd love to see as many as possible. I think it's sold out earlier. I think we've tried to increase the capacity. If Rahim will let us, we're going to try to do that. So make sure you go check it out. Charlie Kirk next, Jack Posobic. After that. We're going to continue to stream. I guess Grace and Mo fold us off. Continue to stream on Rumble and on. Get our Scott Bessant's testimony. Going to be a lot of very interesting. He's going to be one of the key people in the cabinet for President Trump. Like I said, this financial and economic. Remember, you have an economics piece and then you get the financial. How you're going to actually finance it. Right now we have a financial problem. That financial problem is going to drive inflation. We spent too much money. I'm not so sure we spent it wisely. I keep saying that use of proceeds. Where is it? Where's the 36 trillion we'll get tonight? 5:00. A lot going on today. Pam Bondi, we have updates on vote on all the cabinet confirmations. We'll see you back here. 5:00pm p.m. eastern Standard Time. Back in the world.

Mr. Bessant (58:44)

My other top priorities is working on.

Senator Graham (58:46)

A bipartisan basis to lower costs for.

Mr. Bessant (58:49)

Families under President Elect Trump's policies. Do you believe that prices for families.

Senator Graham (58:54)

Will go up or down?

Mr. Bessant (58:56)

I believe that inflation will be much closer to the Federal Reserve's target.

Stephen K. Bannon (59:04)

I want to warn you of a huge change that could be coming to our money in our bank accounts. First, think back to 9, 11, shortly after the government pushed through the Patriot Act. This gave the government power to spy on innocent Americans by monitoring our phone and email and tracking our movement across the Internet. Now Jim Rickards, editor of the independent financial newsletter Strategic Intelligence and New York Times best selling author, is warning about a coming event that could elevate this governmental surveillance to a terrifying new level. In fact, some of the guests I've had on the War Room believe that the government will soon expand their powers to track our every move. If we say the wrong things on social media, donate to the wrong causes, buy firearms or even vote maga, the government may be able to shut us out of our bank accounts. I can't say for sure if this will happen, but it's an interesting and dire warning. Fortunately, Jim Rickards, an American patriot and friend of mine, has made it his mission to educate us on what he believes is coming and how to protect yourself from the possibility of programmable money. Watch Jim's warning video now before it's censored like I've been in the past. Go to Rickards war room.com that's Rickards war room.com now to see the video.

Scott Bessant (60:24)

Sacred Human really trying to fill this gap of quality supplements and of course.

Senator Graham (60:28)

The beef liver being our flagship products.

Mr. Bessant (60:31)

For those who don't know, beef liver.

Scott Bessant (60:33)

Is loaded with highly bioavailable ingredients such as vitamin A, B12, zinc, CoQ10, etc.

Mr. Bessant (60:40)

And because it is 100% grass fed.

Senator Graham (60:43)

And natural, your body is able to.

Scott Bessant (60:45)

Absorb these nutrients far better than taking.

Mr. Bessant (60:47)

Any other synthetic multivitamin or any other.

Scott Bessant (60:51)

Synthetic vitamin in general. So we have some other amazing products, but if you'd like to check us out, you can go to sacredhumanhealth.com and.

Senator Graham (60:59)

Cheers to your health.

Stephen K. Bannon (61:00)

700,000Americans every year. Yes, heart disease is the number one killer every year, year in and year out. Heart disease builds over time. Hypertension high blood pressure, bad cholesterol, diabetes.

Scott Bessant (61:12)

All of it affects our heart.

Stephen K. Bannon (61:14)

A healthy heart is key to being energetic as we get older. It is never too early to take care of your heart. You see, heart disease sneaks up on us. You can start in your 30s and when this happens, you're at serious ricks by the time you turn 60. If you want to take care of your heart and those you care about, please go to war roomhealth.com that's war room health.com all one word war roomhealth.com use the code war room at checkout to save 67% of your first shipment. That's code war room at checkout to save sixty seven percent and do it again. War room health all one word war roomhealth. Com go there today if you're going to be part of the posse. You need a strong heart. You need a lion's heart. How we're going to do that is with salty. Go there do it today.

Scott Bessant (62:03)

Check it out.