Episode 4439: Trump Time Magazine Deal With It; Stopping The Hurricane Of Spenindig

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bannon's War Room Episode 4439: Trump Time Magazine Deal With It; Stopping The Hurricane Of Spending Release Date: April 25, 2025

Hosted by WarRoom.org, Stephen K. Bannon leads a comprehensive discussion with experts on President Trump's first 100 days of his second term. This episode delves into critical topics such as trade negotiations, defense strategies, government spending, and the ongoing economic challenges facing the United States.

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with Stephen K. Bannon and co-host Eric Korosala discussing the recent TIME magazine interview with President Donald Trump. Eric introduces the context, highlighting Trump's engagement with various political and economic issues during his first 100 days back in office.

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2. TIME Magazine Interview with President Trump

Key Highlights:

• Trade Deals and Tariffs: President Trump's negotiations with multiple countries, particularly China, are a focal point. Despite Trump's claims of having "200 deals" in the pipeline, China's spokesperson denied any ongoing talks.

  President Trump (00:17): "I've made 200 deals. 100%."

• Ukraine Conflict: Trump expressed frustration over his inability to swiftly resolve the war in Ukraine, acknowledging the complexity of the situation and the intractable stance of Vladimir Putin.

  David Malpass (03:11): "I sensed that there was some frustration on his part."

• Territorial Expansion: In a notable revelation, Trump stated his aspirations to expand American territory, referencing historical figures like President James K. Polk.

  President Trump (04:00): "I wouldn't mind expanding American territory as president."

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3. Trade Negotiations and China

Discussion Points:

• Discrepancies in Deal Claims: While President Trump claims substantial progress in trade deals, Chinese officials assert that no talks are occurring. This discrepancy highlights the complexity and opacity of international negotiations.

  David Malpass (01:49): "The Chinese deny it. But ... he believes that economic power of the United States and access to our markets is the leverage."

• Impact of Past Negotiations: The hosts reflect on previous trade negotiations under the Obama administration, emphasizing China's strategic delays and tactics to undermine U.S. initiatives.

  Stephen K. Bannon (24:04): "The IMF and World Bank ... they never fulfill ... they keep quiet ... sow confusion."

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4. Defense and Hemispheric Defense Strategy

Key Insights:

• Inspiration from James K. Polk: President Trump's defense strategy draws inspiration from President Polk's expansionist policies, aiming to establish a hemispheric defense framework from Greenland to the Panama Canal.

  Stephen K. Bannon (04:58): "President Trump has expressed a desire to expand American territory... this hemispheric defense is so big."

• Challenges with the Pentagon: The discussion highlights the Pentagon's resistance to Trump's defense reforms, including budgetary constraints and entrenched contractors.

  Stephen K. Bannon (45:10): "The Defense Department ... primary contractors are so dominant ... it's hard to make changes."

• Strategic Realignment: Emphasis on realigning the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) to support the new hemispheric defense strategy, ensuring rapid response capabilities across key global regions.

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5. Government Spending and Economic Policy

Critical Analysis:

• Unsustainable Spending: The episode critiques the current trajectory of U.S. government spending, citing deficits and rising interest payments as indicators of economic instability.

  Eric Korosala (22:25): "The plan we have ... spending $7 trillion ... debt's running out of control."

• IMF and World Bank Policies: Hosts discuss how these institutions perpetuate debt cycles in developing countries, benefiting elites while imposing austerity measures that harm the general populace.

  Stephen K. Bannon (24:43): "China looks at the whole world system ... they've got to protect it."

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6. Industrial Policy and Trade Protection

Strategic Recommendations:

• Countering Predatory Policies: The conversation covers the necessity of adopting a strategic industrial policy to counteract China's aggressive market strategies and intellectual property theft.

  Stephen K. Bannon (35:01): "How do you run a world when ... China ... drive you out of the market through economy of scale."

• Defense Department Oligopoly: Acknowledging the oligopolistic nature of U.S. defense contractors, the hosts underscore the difficulty in implementing reforms due to entrenched interests.

  Stephen K. Bannon (45:32): "They run the deal ... it's hard for changes to be made."

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7. The Future of U.S. Economic and Defense Strategies

Forward-Looking Statements:

• Severe Economic Challenges: The hosts predict ongoing economic turmoil if current spending and debt trends continue, stressing the need for urgent policy reforms.

  Stephen K. Bannon (26:09): "We need rescissions ... executive branch authority ... it's going to be a real challenge."

• Global Order and U.S. Dominance: Emphasis on maintaining and enhancing U.S. economic and military dominance in the face of challenges from China and other global powers.

  Eric Korosala (42:11): "President Trump's vision ... from Greenland to the Panama Canal ... naval strategy."

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8. Conclusion

Stephen K. Bannon and Eric Korosala wrap up the episode by reiterating the critical nature of the issues discussed. They call for strategic action to address unsustainable spending, realign defense strategies, and counteract international economic threats posed by China. The hosts emphasize the importance of leadership and decisive policy-making to navigate the converging crises facing the United States.

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Notable Quotes:

• Stephen K. Bannon (00:08): "The president discusses a range of topics from his administration following court orders to the future of Ukraine."
• Eric Korosala (16:12): "David Malpass ... former under secretary of treasury ... head of the World Bank ... one of the best guys in national finance."
• David Malpass (22:47): "We are stuck with American taxpayers realizing $250 billion of losses from the Fed."

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Conclusion: This episode of Bannon's War Room provides an in-depth analysis of President Trump's recent policies and strategies, highlighting the complexities of international trade negotiations, defense realignments, and the pressing issue of government spending. Through expert discussions and critical insights, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and proposed solutions shaping the current political and economic landscape.

Transcript

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Top of the hour, 7:02 here in.

[Eric Korosala]

New York, closing in on the first 100 days of President Trump's second term in office.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

This morning, TIME is out with an.

[Eric Korosala]

Exclusive interview with the commander in chief.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Where the president discusses a range of topics from his administration following court orders.

[Eric Korosala]

To the future of Ukraine.

[Howard Lutnick]

National political reporter for Time magazine Eric Cordelia writes. Asked if he had requested Bukele, that's the president of El Salvador, to return Abrego Garcia over, Trump said he hadn't. I haven't been asked to ask him by my attorney. He says, nobody asked me to ask him that question except you. As for the political outcry over his refusal to return a man mistakenly sent to a foreign prison without due process, Trump says he believed it will accrue to his advantage. Quote, I think this is another men and women's sports thing for the Democrats. Another part here that was fascinating has to do with the situation surrounding tariffs and the idea of the administration trying to work out deals within this 90 day framework with basically all the countries of the world. The President and his team have said they've had 100 offers to make deals. They say they have 18 proposals in front of them roughly. And then you have a great line of questioning here. Let me read this. Not one has been announced yet. When are you going to announce them? The president says, I've made 200 deals. Then you ask, you've made 200 deals. And then the president says 100%. And then you ask, I think shrewdly, can you share with whom? And then the President says, because the deal is a deal that I choose, view it differently. We are a department store and we set the price. Do you know what's going on here with his 200 deals that have been made?

[David Malpass]

I can't say that I do. I think there are negotiations underway. President Trump told me in the conversation that he had spoken with Xi and that the Chinese were negotiating with the Trump administration. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and another senior administration official also confirmed that to me. The Chinese deny it. But, you know, I think what I understood him to be saying was that he has deals worked out in his mind with all of these countries and that theyhe believes that they will ultimately, you know, basically acquiesce to the terms that he's laying out because he believes that economic power of the United States and access to our markets is the leverage in order to get them to come to some sort of deal. I don't know if they're solidified yet. I don't know, if they're, you know, already made. But, you know, he says that within the next three to four weeks, he will be announcing everything.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Was there any sense of frustration on the part of the president? He said he was going to end the war in Ukraine in a day. The war. He didn't do that. He said he was going to fix the economy just like that. Of course, the economy hadn't been fixed, and in fact, we may be in a recession that he seems to have brought on. Was there any frustration that he hasn't been able to deliver on A lot of the things that he promised?

[David Malpass]

You know, it's interesting because I asked about the Ukraine thing, and I said, you know, President Trump, you said you would solve this issue in a day. You know, what's going on? And, you know, he said, oh, I said that in jest, Eric. Everybody knew that that was, you know, symbolic. You know, I wasn't really saying I was gonna get it done in a day. This has been going on for three years. I've only been here in three months. So, you know, I sense that there was some frustration on his part. And I also think, you know, he pulled back on that claim that he'd be able to solve the war in 24 hours. You know, of course, he's not wrong that it's a very complicated. He's not wr. But it's a very complicated issue and it's hard to solve, and he's got intractable players in Vladimir Putin. But I do think this is a different moment for him than the last time I spoke with him, because he is right now facing all of these problems that you're talking about.

[Howard Lutnick]

Asked if he'd like to be remembered for having expanded American territory as president himself, Trump says, I wouldn't mind. Again, I think this might be obvious if you listen to his territorial aspirations with Greenland, the Panama, Panama Canal and whatnot. But still, it's pretty remarkable to hear a president say he wants to expand territory.

[David Malpass]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's also, you know, noteworthy. We were in the Oval Office, and, you know, he has installed many, many more paintings of former presidents in gold frames. And there's one of James Polk, who expanded territory as well. And I think, you know, President Trump has said he wants to, you know, acquire Greenland, he wants to annex Canada, he wants to seize control of the Panama Canal. And, you know, he bas sees himself as a president who can grow the American empire, who can expand territory. And he said he certainly wouldn't mind if that was part of his legacy.

[Eric Korosala]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Putin's not got a free shot on all these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

And where do people like that go.

[Eric Korosala]

To share the big lie? MAGA MEDIA I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

War ROOM here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Eric Korosala]

It's Friday the 25th of April in the year of our Lord 2025. We're still here in Kansas City, Missouri and had a really an amazing time yesterday with the folks at Hillsdale College. Incredible group of public intellectuals, faculty, other thinkers, Claremont, all that, of course. We had Shaun Davis and Chris Caldwell on last night to, to join us before the, before the dinner. I gave a speech last night to an audience that I think was listening. We talked about the convergent converging crises. Want to really promote something this morning if Grace and Mo would push it out the COVID of Time magazine, if we could get that up the Time magazine cover with President Trump. And it's a hundred, it's this hundred day interview with Eric Korsella, the national political correspondent for Time, who we know pretty well and he's done an incredible interview now been on a Morning Joe and cnn understand he's going to do Kaitlan Collins tonight. Really tough questioning, good question, fair questions, tough questions. And President Trump's responses are pretty amazing. I wanted to discuss about President Polk. President Polk, you know, is an amazing president and one of the most effective presidents we've ever had. Really one of the key figures in our country about manifest destiny and about the building of the country as a continental power. Very controversial, only ran one term. President Trump does have a portrait of him up there along with Jackson and others and you know, and of course General Washington. It is extraordinary that Eric picked up on that and discussed it with the president, that the president's got a real, you know, well thought through strategy here. People are not paying enough attention, I don't think, including people at the Pentagon, I might add, given their budget. About President Trump's concept of hemispheric defense. This is the way that gets us away from trillion dollar defense budgets and Being spread out over hell's half acre, like having two carrier battle groups in the Red Sea to keep the Suez Canal open and to bomb the Houthis back to the Stone Age where they've been living for a long time. Beating the Egyptian army, beating the Saudis, essentially beating UAE that were kind of under contract with the Saudis for years. Polk had a very different vision of America. President Trump's got a very different vision for this country. That's what this hemispheric defense is so big. And you talk about the converging crises one, and let's go to that again, is this stopping the kinetic part of the third World War, which has already started. President Trump is, is doing his, doing his best there, his utmost. He's very blunt with this guy about stopping Ukraine. I think you see the subtext in there that President Trump is, is fully aware of the issue of getting sucked in too much. If you read this interview and look what President Trump's been saying, he's there for a time. Look, they're trying to do a big overall Russian, a Russian rapprogyman and that will be part of it. But you know, Putin the other day unloading on Kiev, Zelensky and others being slow walking the economic deal and that's supposed to be done. There's all kind of talk of a joint press conference and Zelensky's going to do this, Zelensky is going to do that. But you can tell President Trump's patience on this is not unlimited. And you look at the second part, the deportation of the 10 million illegal alien invaders that came in on Biden's watch, already jammed up at the, essentially at the Supreme Court. As I said in the speech last night, the constitutional crisis part of this, and this is what they're trying to do to stop the deportation of the 10 million, the criminals, obviously the criminal element. And President Trump doing his commander in chief for our national security is self evident that's the right thing to do. But that's, I don't know, a hundred thousand, maybe a couple hundred thousand. And hey, all the, all of them got to go. All of them have to go. But they're doing this to jam us up, to jam the president up. So we never get to the 10 million. We either lose our will, our focus is just too tough. There's too many, you know, there's too many empathetic videos, sympathetic videos cut by CNN as you try to deport the families, which you're going to have to do, right? They're here illegally they got to go back or you're never going to have the rule of law of this country. You're never going to really secure the border. President Trump secured it right now. But if President Trump was not around, what would happen even if you built the wall. So because it's all about intent and focus, President Trump has secured the border, I don't know, in 60 days, 65, 70 days with Langford. And these guys told it's going to take decades and they had to pass all this, all this new legislation and you had to have all this new money spent. So the interview is also one of the things that's very important. Two parts of the interview. President Trump, they talk about the tax increases in President Trump. Newt Gingrich and Grover Norcross is a lot more amenable to it in this interview. He kind of says it's the right thing to do. His only concern. His only concern says, hey, look, we're going to do something. And he's favorable to it. He says his concern still falls back to the Bush thing because it hasn't been properly explained. Bush raised taxes for everybody. This is a massive tax cut for people and you got to figure out pay for it. But the buried lead that people really haven't picked up on, he says it in context of Bush losing the election and how it would hurt President Trump politically on his own side. Politically, I thought he was termed out. Not in his mind. His answer on the taxes relates directly and this is easy to overcome. Very easy overcome. But his it's in response to his running again in 2028. I don't think it's a random occurrence because President Trump doesn't do things randomly that you launched the merch yesterday of Trump 2028 on his official, you know, merchandising store and tees and ball caps and other things, other swag at the same time knew that the time interview would be out, would be out, would be out today. And in that answer, anybody that's been involved in politics at all says, hey, this guy's thinking through his reelect and seeing if this would hurt him or help him. Just saying Trump 28, 2028 is. It's happening, it's happening and you can tell he's into it. He would never have answered that question the way he answered about taxes. Which makes me feel good because on the tax side, the math just doesn't work. If the Pentagon back to President Trump's hemispheric defense, the Pentagon and Pete and you guys need to shift your budget to the Hemispheric defense because it's still a budget that looks at the Eurasian landmass. That's something the United States has to defend. Not so sure about that. I think that's an open question. Obviously the South China Sea and around Korea and Japan a little different. But I'm talking about in the Middle east and in NATO and in places like Ukraine. Complete total new rethink. This interview is amazing and we're going to talk more about it today throughout the day and break it down when everybody to read it really in this interview there's another Matt Gaetz and I gotta give a hat tip to Matt and this is why, you know, think about what Matt Gaetz could have been if he'd stuck it out for ag the whole seacot deal. The brainchild of Matt Gaetz. That's how what a brilliant young man he is. Incredible guy. You read the seacot section of this. It's just absolutely incredible how Matt Gaetz is always a guy thinking downrange. Thinking downrange and the C cat things. See cut things. Absolutely brilliant. That would be the prison down in El Salvador with these terrorists, murderers, rapists, criminals that President Trump has commander chiefs and down. Okay, short commercial break. Johnny Khan's going to take us out. We're absolutely packed today all throughout the day here in Kansas City at, at the Hillsdale Conference Leadership conference. Very proud of that. And we're going to have someone who's speaking. David Malpass, who is head of the World bank under President Trump's going to join us here in a moment. You don't go out and buy a life jacket when the boat is already sinking. And you don't buy gold when the economy has already collapsed. Clearly others are heeding this advice as gold hit an all time high the first part of 2025 multiple times. It's not too late for you. 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[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

[Eric Korosala]

Okay, welcome back. A little bit of international incident. By the way, David Malpass joins me right here. David Malpass was under secretary of at treasury of international financed and President Trump early part of the term and then later became head of the World bank appointed by President Trump. Correct. David Malpass, old friend, one of the best guys in national finance. We're gonna get it up here in a minute. In the, in the interview by Eric Korosala for Time magazine, the COVID of President Trump's first hundred days. It's quite controversial because they get into it about China and President Trump says, hey look, I'm doing all these deals. We got them stacked up and we're having and we're engaged with China. Andrew Ross Sorkin's just been on Squawk saying the Chinese are saying hey, there's no talks. We don't know what this guy's talking about and he's got to stop sowing international confusion. When I talk about in the talk last night about the Chinese and you know, they have gamed the system on the World Trade Organization and being most favored nation, the cyber deal that in 2015 that, that Obama cut, they never fulfilled in 2019 or in 2017. Then the whole 2019, the Hong Kong situation, then you guys, you, Navarro and Lighthizers, the tip of the spear spent two years working on really a major deal that would solve everything, the seven deadly sins for two years. And at the end of day in May of 2019, they just kind of walked away from it. Right? Neither, neither are far thee.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Well, that's right. And you know, in the campaign in 2016, this was a major issue. So it was no surprise when it started in 2017. It kind of launched from me at treasury working for Mnuchin and for Trump. And then as it broadened then Lighthizer and Navarro were heavily involved and it became also Wilbur Rossic, Commerce the 301 was the section 301 trade was the clincher because China negotiated moment by moment. So this idea of them saying Trump is sowing confusion is part of their negotiations. They're really hard negotiators. So it's got to be Trump up against them, knowing this is exactly how people do it. They say, you say we're talking because we're trying to get toward a deal. And they Say we're not even talking. Well, that's a negotiation right there.

[Eric Korosala]

Go back in that time. It wasn't a surprise, particularly when it came to the campaign. It wasn't just the southern border for those northern states is about the manufacturing jobs. This has always been part of his, not just populism, but his economic nationalism. It resonated with people in Pennsylvania and Ohio and Michigan and Wisconsin. You could tell that. I tell people, we go these rallies and what would take me an hour to explain to guys at Goldman Sachs because they say, no, we're just investing there. I said, it's a two liner in Akron, Ohio, how they've shipped all the jobs and these guys get it. So immediately we had Xi come to Mar A Lago. We started those negotiations very, very, very soon after kind of, you know, a speed bump was hit in June of 2017. Then you guys got fully engaged in it. But the Chinese spent two years with you guys. Two years in a very, very detailed, comprehensive. This would, this would couple the two economies and integrate China with all kind of environmental rules and labor rules and about state owned industries and deflationary pricing they send around because of excess capacity. And Li her was the lead negotiator. And after two years, they literally just walked away from it.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

I think that's part of the problem. If you go slow and you're talking about hundreds of pages and then all of a sudden it's thousands of pages and no one actually, or, you know, you question whether they actually intend to do it. That was actually part of the NAFTA problem, that it started as the idea of benefits and then all of a sudden it became the lawyers and it became huge. So by 1992, I had gone to the White House to say, this has to stop. We're not getting what we want out of this deal. There are too many lawyers. It was 92. George H.W. let the negotiations get. And so I think we have to look at it in a different way now that the system is broken. And there has to be a way that people can understand what's being fixed. You know, I was a tea Partier in 2010. In 2010, people across the country knew that there was a giant problem, unfortunately, that didn't get the job done. It wasn't until 2016, as Trump was coming in, that you could have some light at the end of the tunnel of what was going to be done. But even now, we're facing people, you know, across the government, people are trying to have a resistance to the change that's needed. It's still the global order is dominant, the elites are dominant. And that's what you're talking about in 2018, 2019. It just wasn't working. And China knows what it's doing. It's delaying and delaying. Hang on.

[Eric Korosala]

You're one of the best experts in the world in international finance and certainly in the MAGA movement in the Trump circles, you're in the top handful. When I gave this talk at the summer for World economic summit in D.C. now they're trying to make that like The Davos of D.C. had all these international financiers. And we talk about Trump's reordering of the commercial aspects of a get off mercantilist systems and let's get back to a fair, at least a fair trade system. And I said, when people talk to me about this also can't happen. I said, give me the plan we have now is not sustainable. Do you agree with that? I mean, the plan we have of spending $7 trillion, of raising taxes, of four and a half or five, of having $2 trillion a year in deficits that Scott Bessant has to finance, the debt's running out of control. Interest is over almost $1.5 trillion. The raw interest we pay, $1.4 trillion. This system is not sustainable for us as a business model. You agree with that?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Absolutely right. And the world sees that. Our small businesses across the US know that it's absolutely not working. The bigger companies get the capital and they snarf up the innovation. And so there's a lack of dynamism Even in the U.S. but it's, I got to tell you, it's worse in other parts of the world.

[Eric Korosala]

There's less dynamism.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Less dynamism. The IMF just did. It's. I'm not an IMF fan. You know, I've written all about remove the shackles of the IMF from the poor countries where they run austerity programs. But they, they put out their numbers. This week there's this big shindig in Washington, you know, the people from all over the world coming in to see how much money they can make from the system. And there's that one because we picked.

[Eric Korosala]

Up Besant's speech live when he was reading the Mariah. Why? Why is that? Imf, World bank kind of joint meeting or whatever. Why is it so big?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

It's because it's the annual meetings, but the money is flowing constantly from it. So Bess, instead of trying to stand up in front of a hurricane of of spending and say, hey, we've got to try to downsize and think about your mission. But what's going on under the surface across Washington is how do we get more money out of taxpayers and out of the system? They want the appropriations from the US to continue. They want new capital increases, and above all, they're doing credit guarantees across the board. And so it's in effect nationalizing the losses of, particularly of China. So, you know, China's lent all this money, never takes a loss, and it gets in the end guaranteed by the international system.

[Eric Korosala]

How to walk us through that? The one belt, one road, the predatory capitalism, the kind of what we call the British East India Company in reverse, all the predatory loans that they're making. You're telling me that the IMF and world and other institutions supported by American taxpayers support, basically give them loan guarantees?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Yeah. So look what happened in Argentina. Here's this bailout, the first one paid off as all of China's loans to Argentina. But that's going on as, as a system, meaning in Zambia, China gets the mine, plus it gets all its loans repaid with interest. And so it's been very profitable for China.

[Eric Korosala]

The project itself or the Zambian government can't do it. So the loan guarantee is essentially US taxpayers doing it.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Correct. And now what they're doing is in order to get China away, they pay them off with loan guarantees. And so that. That in effect internationalizes or multilateralizes the debt, the debt system. So China looks at the whole world system and says, this is a great global order, we've got to protect it. They do that in the G20 where they're a dominant player. One thing I'm hoping is that the US ends the G20 after next year hosting it.

[Eric Korosala]

You know, you want to end it?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

I think we should end it. It's. It doesn't work because it, like the WTO is, the World Trade Organization, is a consensus process where you're expecting all. You've diluted, fully diluted, the US stature and status by saying we're going to have one vote. Each country has a vote. And in the G20, that means China and Russia and Argentina and South Africa have equal. And Brazil have equal votes to the US which doesn't work at all as a global system.

[Eric Korosala]

So where do you think we stand now in the reordering of this? So that works for not just the country, America, but America, American, American citizens. Where do you think we stand? This whole negotiation, the reordering to an order that works for us.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's the challenge, and you named it, that the amount of debt and the unsustainability of the US Government spending is really hard to stop. So you've got I call it an upheaval. And that's what I wrote for Trump in September of 2016. I walked that that we need to recognize the positive side of having a full upheaval. That means of the Federal Reserve, of the trade system, of course, but downsizing each part of the US Government, whether it's the education or the housing or the EPA and its overreach of regulations. So that's all ongoing. But as you can see, the resist movement is is so strong.

[Eric Korosala]

You mean the Washington Consensus, institutional resistance move, because they get the great they just the top 19 families just created or just got a trillion dollars of wealth in the last, in the last, like, since since the beginning of the year. So the system works for them.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

They, they benefit and they use litigation. And Washington right now, today is getting rich on the fight that's going on to try to downsize. Some people say, well, you can make a lot of money by upsizing. Like all the public money that's going to universities, you make huge amounts. Washington is the lobbyists that get the appropriation. But then you make just as much money trying to resist it. On the downside.

[Eric Korosala]

Hang on one second. Former head of the World bank and under secretary of international finance in the first Trump term. Take your phone out. Text Bannon B A N N O N 989898 Birch Gold the ultimate Guide Totally Free Ultimate Guide to Investing in Gold and Precious Metals Era Trump Remember, it's not the price of gold, it's the process. How why is gold been a hedge for 4,000, 5,000 years of mankind's history? Short Commercial break Back to Kansas City, Missouri. Just a moment. You've heard me talk about Patriot Mobile for a while now. You probably know that for years they've stood in the gap for every American who believes in faith, family and freedom. So here's the question. Have you switched to Patriot Mobile yet? You'll get exceptional nationwide coverage because unlike most cell phone service providers, Patriot Mobile utilizes all three major US Networks switch today without sacrificing quality or service. They even add two numbers on two networks on one phone. Let me repeat. They can even add two numbers on two networks on one phone. It's like you're carrying two phones in one. They have unlimited data plans, mobile hotspots, international roaming, Internet on the go devices, and Internet backup. Switching is easy. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade their 100% US based team can activate you in minutes. Best of all, switching to Patriot Mobile supports your values. If you believe in our first Amendment and second Amendment rights, the sanctity of life, supporting our veterans and first responders, this is where you belong right now. Go to patriotmobile.com Bannon or call 972-patriot Get a free month of service with promo code Bannon. So if you call in, tell em Bannon also Switch today. That's patriot mobile.com Bannon or call 972 Patriot.

[David Malpass]

Embassy just said they are not having any talks on tariffs and that the US should stop creating confusion. Now, just a bit of a reminder, this Time magazine piece came out literally at 6:00am the this morning. It was an interview with President Trump. That interview though, took place apparently on Tuesday. So here we are on Friday. It's been a rollercoaster of a week and so many different things have been said both by the President and his treasury secretary, Scott Bessant and others. But the one thing that has been consistent thus far is that China at least publicly has said that there have been no talks whatsoever. And of course there's also the IMF meetings.

[Eric Korosala]

Okay, that's Andrew or Sorkin, you know him very well. Squawk box. Here's the international incident that's come up. President Trump gave the Time magazine interview Tuesday. It's all over. It came out Today, this morning, 6am he says in there they're having conversations and I think he says Xi picked up the phone and called him and the Chinese are out and you've negotiated with them. They're coming out and saying there's no talks. We're not talking to Bessant, we're not talking to Trump, we're not talking to anybody in the, in the foreign devils are trying to soak, sow confusion, your.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Thoughts, confusion and uncertainty is part of the system. And to get to an answer, you have to kind of break the system that we're in, which is that people talk quietly to each other and get nothing done. And so Trump's doing it publicly and saying we're going to get this done with deadlines. And so the question to me is if you've got the trading system broken, what can you get out of it country by country? And I think that's what's going on on the table right now. They're supposed to come forward with proposals to get out of the, out of, to get back into the US Market. I want to talk.

[Eric Korosala]

You've done this before. This is Tuesdays the day President Trump gave the interview. We've referred this a number of times. The Financial Times from the other day, as you know, have held this up. Beijing warns of retaliation against nations doing US Deals. Part of the deals are going to have embedded in there that we're kind of your lead trading partner and you know, you'll make special accommodations with us and we'll make special accommodations with you. Beijing is let no particularly the East Asian countries in India, you know, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam and India, you know, no bueno. Right. So your thoughts?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Beijing has lots of influence in countries, you know, ambassadors that are fully inserted into the countries. The mainstream media really likes that because they can play up the China side of it and it's very anti Trump in its, in its nature. But what's happening kind of in the, in the bureaucracy of the world is they're trying to Trump proof. And so that goes.

[Eric Korosala]

What do you mean Trump? What do you mean Trump proof? Proof means we see how the Democrats try to do it, we see how they're trying to do it here, how they try to do it across the world.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

You move the money from where it can be clawed back by the US to where it can't be clawed back.

[Eric Korosala]

By the US Walk us through that. So these guys are, when they see Trump coming to power, it's let's, let's make sure we're beyond Trump's reach as far as sanctions go, as far as the swift system.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

That's right. And you know, the Biden people knew exactly how to do that. They'd done that in the Obama. It was same people doing the same thing, which is you set up trust funds, move the money into the trust fund and write the governance rules of the trust fund so that the US can't get the money, so that Trump can't get the money back. But that's going on even now. You know who was out. Did you see them saying they're downsizing and then you read the fine print, it says from 76 departments to 34 departments. So here you've got this organization in Geneva, very high priced part of the.

[Eric Korosala]

World that we've pulled out of and not for done a year. And the CCP essentially runs, but they.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Already took all the US Money and so they've got some in the bank. And then they're saying, well, we're going to downsize and eat by and China will step up and keep it going. And so that's going on in the United Nations, a huge problem. You know, the organizations have Spread across the whole world and they're deeply embedded. And so in order to do the work to right size, to downsize and make it in the U.S. national interest is going to be really hard. That's the point I was making or that we were just doing is on trade the customs line items. And China is going to play this game. They're going through the types of products and they match it up with districts in the U.S. they advertise that they're chopping off a given congressman and then they come back and tell him exactly what happened to him. Your favorite donors just got screwed. And so it will be, you know, full out battle.

[Eric Korosala]

It's micro targeting, economic warfare.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

That's right. And they're masters, they've got big data, they know how to do it and they went through it in 2017. So one problem is they're going to be even harsher. This is against their back the background of their predatory industrial policy. So you know, this is not a small problem for economics. How do you run a world when the second biggest economy has a super predatory industrial policy where their goal is to produce every product and drive you out of the market through economy of scale.

[Eric Korosala]

Let's go through that for a second when you meet predatory industrial policy. Because the Germans, some of the guys that were big talk understand now like in the middle, was it the middle those middle companies that were the pride and joy of precision tooling of Germany, now the Germans understand what the industrial policy of China really is.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

That's right. Now that FT article, you know, one big problem is Europe is going to be divided in terms of whether they want to.

[Eric Korosala]

Well, the EU said last night when I walked on the stage, right for the stage, they put out a statement that said, hey, if you want us to be part of this, to decouple from China, it's not going to happen.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Remember the weak knees. So I remember one Macron, it was in the same spot in the same newspaper in 2019 when he'd gone to China thinking he was going to get a deal. Came back, said I didn't really get a deal, so I'm mad at China. It was a big headline across Europe and then they backed off completely because they can't, they're not in a position to decouple. But to your German point, France is not, France is not well and Germany is, you know what they've been doing because their energy prices are so high because I mean think how many huge mistakes they made. They became dependent on Soviet, on Russian oil first Soviet oil And then Russian gas and they closed their nuclear power plants. So their energy costs go sky high.

[Eric Korosala]

Decarbonize as industrial power. They essentially de. Industrialize by. By buying into the cult of decarbonization.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

And so exactly where did their factories go? They went to China because they burn coal, they import it from Australia, burn coal to make the electricity and they make the chemicals for the world. It's a market that Germany used to have. So as Germany looks at it now, what's happened on intellectual property is China systematically looked at the smaller businesses that they needed from Germany, the ones that make machine tools, for example, figured out how they could copy that in China, take the IP and then do it in China. And so then they undercut the market. So Germany's now standing really harmed by this and it's going to take work. That's the. I think we've got years of battle to really flatten the. To, to really make a level playing field.

[Eric Korosala]

Go back to given. And this is what I was trying to say last night. Given the decades that our decision makers have made horrible decisions, it's narrowed the range of alternatives that we have. And we don't have any easy alternatives. That's what I was trying to say last night. The converging crises here or multiple crises and on none of them do we have easy alternatives. And that's going to lead to a special group of if you're hardened and you're tough, you're going to inability to make hard decisions and live by them, you'll get through this. If you're not, you're going to lose the country.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

That. That's right. But I think that means that we have to focus on the things that we have to have first. And so that means decisions by the President on which industries can be brought back and then which ones can stockpile and be prepared over the long run to really get the job done.

[Eric Korosala]

You're saying triage it now?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

I think it has to be.

[Eric Korosala]

There's been a natural tendency to hate the concept of industrial policy in the United States. Although we do have industrial policy by our tax structure. Right. Essentially. Are you saying we have more of an industrial policy, that we have to think strategically about this?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

I think we have to match the world. There's a little bit of reflexivity or of reciprocal, reciprocal reciprocity in that if they're doing it. But Reagan, you know, I worked hard on this in the Reagan administration. He made the distinction between industrial policy that would protect fat US Corporations and I'll name two. Name one. Because One still exists. But Kodak, remember was the biggest lobbyist. Instead of inventing new cameras, they were lobbying in D.C. he said no, but he took on the Japanese on autos and that that really changed the industry. So there was some decision make. I mean very important decision making. Same thing in the defense area. You know there's a US Steel. No, it was not. I don't want to say the other. What about the active lobbying in D.C. today for more protection?

[Eric Korosala]

What about, what about the defense industry? So one of the things I've been all over is that we just can't. It's obscene to me to have the EU come out and make a statement that they're not. They can't consider decoupling and their deal is going to reflect that. At the same time, we have two carrier battle groups at the mouth of the Red Sea. One is for the Houthis and the whole Persian and Arabian and Israeli. But the other is to keep the Suez Canal open for trade to Europe. And they've got a Royal Navy frigate, a French corvette and an Italian destroyer. And that's all they've given to the effort.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

They you know, really depended on the U.S. now we should be very proud of being Americans and everybody listening I hope will be proud of that because the US has a strong economy, a strong military and can do the job for itself. We can protect ourselves. But what we have to do is get changes in Europe. Obviously they're really flabby and so that's got to be, got to to be turned around on defense though we're in Kansas City right now. I've met a lot of military, current military and ex military people and they are so proud of America. But they no no one voices support for a trillion dollar defense budget.

[Eric Korosala]

I'm a veteran to nobody. No because we realize it's out of control.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

We're out of control. So then that gets to the choices.

[Eric Korosala]

Somebody and these are patrons, these are people that are praying the hardest core patrons.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

They want the Defense Department to make choices of do we need every kind of ship and do we have to make them? Can't we use shipbuilding industry outside? Because we need them fast. We need cheaper. We don't need all these fanciest missiles. We need to have electronics that what.

[Eric Korosala]

But the basic look you were the in treasury international finance. So this would come under your at least strategic overview. Essentially what President Trump is saying in this hemispheric defense and one of the reasons he got James Polk as the Time magazine tell us up on one of the portraits on the wall is that from Greenland to the Panama Canal and obviously Brazil's got to be taken care of in Argentina, in Latin America and South America. But from Panama Canal to Greenland, it's a naval strategy. You take the vast central Pacific, you do the three island chains of which Pete went to Hawaii, Guam, the Philippines in order. That's the go from the Arctic. You're going to have to get involved in the Arctic, right, because a great power struggle. But I think it's one of the reasons Canada could end up being like Ukraine with China taking a bite out of their territorial integrity up there. You do that, you totally reset the military. All of a sudden you're not worried that much about the Eurasian landmass and you have an expeditionary force of Marines and army and Navy that could, that could, that can go anywhere. If you have a hotspot spot, isn't that the way you have you have to realign. The NDAA has got to be realigned with the basic new strategy.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

That's right. That's right. Geopolitically, and that's maybe a brilliant strategy and we can think Trump is thinking about it that way. But here's the problem. The Defense Department right now is, I think, still Trump proofing itself. So they figure out which contracts would be non cancelable and then they David.

[Eric Korosala]

Malpass Dropping truth bombs here on a Trump proofing I love that thing about moving the money around, right? Moving the money around is very, very, very important. And my answer about the BRICS movement, one of the things they're saying is we've used the dollar too much as a weapon and that's why the Chinese are getting a hearing by the BRICS on besides the drop in purchasing power of the dollar, also it's been used as a weapon. Short commercial break so for four years we've been doing the series the End of the Dollar empire. Go to birchgold.com Bannon the Six Free Installment Modern Monetary theory, the idea that broke the world. You got to get up to speed on this. Remember, if you understand how money works, if you understand how capital markets work, you will therefore start to have a whole new view of politics, because it's all about money and power. Short commercial break David Malpass One more episode, one more slot for him. Be back in a moment. We will fight till they're all gone. We rejoice when there's no more. Let's take down the ccp. Health isn't just a personal issue, it's a family issue, a community issue. We're living in unpredictable times. Supply chains can break down, hospitals can get overwhelmed. And let's not even start on the natural disasters. These aren't hypotheticals. They're happening. You see it here in the war room and we all know it. The question is simply, are you ready? That's where Jace comes in. This isn't just a kit. This is a Jace case. It's a lifeline. It's a personal supply of prescribed emergency medications that puts the power back in your hands. Whether it's an unexpected illness or a global disruption of supply chains, you can act fast and protect yourself and your loved ones. This February, show them you care in a way that really matters. Be prepared. Get the Jace case today so you'll have the right meds on hand the moment you need them. Visit jacemedical.com and use the code Bannon B A N N o N at checkout for a discount on your order. That's jacemedical.com promo code Bannon. Get the Jace case and do it today.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Eric Korosala]

So. So let's talk. Let's have your other thoughts. I want to get it on the table of, you know, the Trump proofing, the. What the Pentagon's doing to trump proof because we're very upset about the trillion dollars and you're saying they're already thinking ahead of how they. How they are resistant to the bacillus of the Trump movement.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

A maga that, you know, it's hard to get inside each of these agencies, but around the government, what the. What they know and they're skilled at is the contracts. So if you can lock in the contract in a way that it can't be undone, then you're. You're money good. And so in the Defense Department, one of the problems is the primary contractors are so dominant, so they.

[Eric Korosala]

Five.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Only five. So you got a oligopoly.

[Eric Korosala]

It's like, it's like the five families of the mafia, right?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

They run the deal, you said last night, oligarchs. And so in that way they can really crowd out anybody else. And if they can get the contracts to them, then they can protect them. So it just makes it hard for the changes to be made. And the amounts of money that we're talking about are huge. You know, they're doing $10 billion, $20 billion on individual contracts. And so that, you know, they're moving as fast as they can. You know, in the Senate, think what's going on. The resist movement is super strong, which means the time on the floor in the Senate to get the appointees in.

[Eric Korosala]

Just takes his Senate confirmation guys, right?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Yeah, the Senate confirmation. The decision makers, they always slow walk, have to come in at the top and make decisions and they slow walk them. And Chuck Schumer is, you know, a master at how do you use up as much time as possible. This is going to be an issue coming back to the government spending of how do you get enough resizing of the government? You need rescissions, but those are hard to do because they take floor time. You need executive branch authority, which Trump is asserting. And I think that's going to be a real.

[Eric Korosala]

See, impoundments.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Impoundment has to be looked at. You know, if you look at. I was on the staff of the Senate Budget Committee, so I know a lot about this. In 1974, Nixon was at his weak spot and the Democrats put through the Budget Impoundment act of 74, which took away the President's power over spending because they wanted themselves to be able to spend and get the campaign contributions. How is it that members come to Washington with no money and then they go out rich? Well, it's because they're controlling the. And generously providing full funding for everybody. And so breaking through that is. It really takes executive branch authority. Can I say on that? I think we need more than that. The checks and balances are not strong enough in the Constitution against the size of government. They in their wisdom in the founding Fathers, they protected free speech, they protected religion, they protected against illegal search and seizure of citizens. And these were really powerful. But they didn't realize they needed to protect and have a real check and balance against government getting too big. So we're now in a spot where Trump will really have to show new procedures because when he'll be gone someday and the Democrats will come back someday, and their whole idea is to have everybody work for the government. That's. That would be an ideal. They would say, well, that would give us a lot of GDP growth because it would be very stable. And you say, yeah, where is it going to come from? Debt. Right. So we've got to get back to a small business system. We can turn to brics if you want, but I've said my piece on that. Oh, and we want to do the Fed.

[Eric Korosala]

But hang on, let's do, let's, let's do a couple minutes on bricks and then we'll do. Let's do the Fed first.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

What's your.

[Eric Korosala]

Yeah, we are big believers in ending the Fed. What are your thoughts?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

What we have a broken system like trade and how many mistakes can the Fed make on inflation deflation. And you know, I've written over and over in the Wall Street Journal that they never look back in introspect. Why did we make such a big mistake? Well, it's because they have stupid models. The models are what's called neo Keynesian. That means they have a concept of how people work and grow. That's plain wrong. That's the core Phillips curve model. But it's the fascination with CPI which we can't even count. You know, I really don't think you get right numbers out of cpi. And yet they're using it to set interest rates. They have this immense power to buy bonds, any kind of bonds even in 2023 people don't know in the heat of the campaign as they were trying to Trump proof Washington against Trump they set up 13. They used the Fed used his 133 authority in March of 2023 to allow the Fed to lend to banks for as if the collateral as if bonds were at 100 cents on the dollar when they were only worth 90.

[Eric Korosala]

Well, because. Because they were blowing holes in these. Their own bonds were blowing holes in the balance sheets as with the Silicon Valley bank and other things the bailouts.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

And don't forget the Fed was the biggest. It's the world's biggest hedge fund with the world's biggest biggest loss unrealized on its books. So every year now we are stuck American taxpayers with realizing $250 billion of losses from the Fed. But that understates because underwater is all their entire big. They have $7 trillion of a bond portfolio that's lost money. And what's worse, as I say in 2023 they allowed this freebie lending to banks that they were trying to protect. So now I do want to say the importance of a central bank anywhere in the world is to protect the currency of the people because otherwise devaluations kill people on the bottom. You know really. Cause in the developing world it actually causes starvation, poverty. One of the things I fought at the World bank was the IMF's tendency to have everybody devalue because it protects them and the elites in the country. We got to stop that.

[Eric Korosala]

We're going to get you back on later another time to do to do bricks and other things been fascinating. How do people get to your writings? Do you have social media all that.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Where people go under understated on that David Malpassmail.com so so you.

[Eric Korosala]

You don't know? No. No website to put your writings up and no social media.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

You know, I've tried and tried and tried. Incompetence.

[Eric Korosala]

You're so old school, David Mouse. So one more time, where do people go?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Just Google me.

[Eric Korosala]

That'll just Google and get, get all your, and get all your writings. David Malpass, former undersecretary of treasury for international finance for President Trump and then head of the World Bank. Fascinating discussion. We'll get, we'll get you back here for a lot more. We're gonna take you out with the right stuff book by Tom Wolf. A classic, a amazing film, a really amazing film by Phil Kaufman, underappreciated at the time, of course, we love it. And Academy Award winning music by Bill Conti. The right stuff will take you out. We're going to be back in two minutes with the second hour of the morning edition of the War Room. See in a moment. What if he had the brightest mind in the war room delivering critical financial research every month? Steve Bannon here. War Room listeners know Jim Rickards. I love this guy. He's our wise man. A former CIA, Pentagon and White House advisor with an unmatched grasp of geopolitics and capital markets. Jim predicted Trump's electoral College victory exactly 312 to 226, down to the actual number itself. Now he's issuing a dire warning about April 11, a moment that could define Trump's presidency in your financial future. His latest book, Money GPT exposes how AI is setting the stage for financial chaos. Bank runs at lightning speeds, algorithm driven crashes and even threats to national security. Right now, War Room members get a free copy of MoneyGPT when they sign up for Strategic Intelligence. This is Jim's flagship financial newsletter, Strategic Intelligence. I read it. You should read it. Time is running out. Go to rickardswarroom.com that's all one word. Rickards. War Rooms Rickards with an S. Go now and claim your free book. That's Rickards War room dot com. Do it today.

[E]

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