Episode 4494: Fighting Continues Over Budget On Capitol Hill Into The Weekend

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bannon's War Room – Episode 4494: Fighting Continues Over Budget On Capitol Hill Into The Weekend

Release Date: May 17, 2025

In Episode 4494 of Bannon's War Room, hosted by WarRoom.org, Stephen K. Bannon delves deep into the ongoing budget negotiations on Capitol Hill, providing listeners with a comprehensive analysis of the key players, critical issues, and the potential implications for the American economy and political landscape. The episode features in-depth discussions with Representative Chip Roy, economic insights from Dave Brat, and commentary from Ben Harnwell on the Pope’s investiture, alongside analyses on technocracy and artificial intelligence (AI) with Patrick Wood.

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I. Introduction to Capitol Hill's Budget Battles

The episode kicks off with Representative Chip Roy passionately addressing the current state of the budget bill, highlighting the contentious debates surrounding tax benefits, Medicaid expenditures, and the looming deficit concerns.

Notable Quote:

[00:00] Chip Roy: "The vast majority of Americans will get tax benefits under this bill. It's just simply false to say that that's not true... But we also address Medicaid and Medicaid spending goes up."

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II. Chip Roy's Critique of the Budget Bill

Chip Roy vehemently criticizes Democratic colleagues, asserting that the budget bill falsely claims to benefit hardworking Americans through increased standard deductions, child tax credits, and lower tax rates. However, he warns that the bill is marred by a significant front-loaded deficit increase and inadequate measures to tackle long-term fiscal issues.

Key Points:

• Tax Benefits: Roy emphasizes that most Americans will receive tax benefits, countering Democratic narratives.
• Medicaid Spending: He points out the inevitable rise in Medicaid expenditures, criticizing both parties for neglecting sustainable reforms.
• Deficit Concerns: Roy underscores that the bill fails to achieve its stated goals regarding deficit reduction, instead projecting a massive short-term increase.

Notable Quote:

[00:00] Chip Roy: "This bill falls profoundly short. It does not do what we say it does with respect to deficits... Deficits will go up in the first half of the ten-year budget window. And we all know it's true."

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III. Steve Bannon's Defense and Insights on the Budget Bill

Transitioning the conversation, Steve Bannon addresses the budget bill's complexities, acknowledging progress while highlighting areas needing improvement. He discusses efforts to advance Medicaid reforms and mitigate the effects of the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), aiming to balance tax policies with spending restraints.

Key Points:

• Front-Loading Tax Policy: Bannon explains the bill's strategy to accelerate tax policies while delaying spending restraints.
• Medicaid Reforms: He advocates for immediate implementation of work requirements to reduce dependency and stimulate economic growth.
• Inflation Reduction Act: Bannon critiques the IRA's continuation of Green New Deal projects, stressing the need for its termination to align with fiscal priorities.

Notable Quote:

[03:41] Steve Bannon: "We see the front load of the tax policy and the backload of the spending restraint... We need to get people back to work and then be able to have the benefits that they're getting under the program."

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IV. Deficit Concerns and Moody's Downgrade

The discussion shifts to the broader economic implications of the budget bill, particularly focusing on the growing deficits and Moody's recent rating downgrade. Dave Brat elaborates on the alarming projections of interest payments consuming a significant portion of federal revenues by 2035.

Key Points:

• Interest Payments: Brat highlights Moody's projection that federal interest payments could absorb nearly 30% of tax revenues by 2035.
• Deficit Projections: Current policies may drive federal deficits to 9% of GDP by 2035, double the Republican target of reducing it to 3.5%.
• Economic Stability: The rising deficits pose risks to bond markets and overall economic health, undermining fiscal sustainability.

Notable Quote:

[09:21] Steve Bannon: "We are not on a path to get to three or three and a half percent of GDP as our deficit unless we do more in this bill."

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V. Committee Vote and Legislative Process

Jodi Arrington updates listeners on the scheduled budget committee vote, set for Sunday night. Both Bannon and Arrington express uncertainty about the outcome, emphasizing the need for continued negotiations and potential amendments to address critical issues like Medicaid reforms and SALT (State and Local Tax) deductions.

Key Points:

• Scheduled Vote: The committee is set to reconvene for a vote at 10 PM on Sunday night.
• Negotiations: Ongoing discussions aim to reconcile front-loaded tax benefits with necessary spending cuts.
• Legislative Path: Potential amendments in the Rules Committee will be essential to finalize the bill.

Notable Quote:

[12:19] Jodi Arrington: "Right now, 10 pm Sunday night, Jodi Arrington's called for another budget committee vote. That's still on track, correct?"

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VI. Perspectives on the Pope’s Investiture

Shifting focus from domestic politics, Ben Harnwell provides an insightful analysis of Pope Leo XIV's investiture. He reflects on the turnout compared to previous ceremonies, interpreting it as a barometer of the Catholic Church's current health and internal divisions.

Key Points:

• Turnout Comparison: The recent investiture saw fewer attendees compared to past events, indicating potential disillusionment within the Church.
• Church Dynamics: Harnwell discusses the internal struggles and the impact of leadership changes on Catholic engagement and unity.
• Societal Implications: The investiture's reception may signal broader trends in religious adherence and institutional trust.

Notable Quote:

[23:07] Ben Harnwell: "When you see the thing about able-bodied people... Why are we sticking it to the vulnerable population... We need to reform it."

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VII. Technocracy, AI, and Societal Impacts with Patrick Wood

Patrick Wood returns after overcoming significant health challenges to discuss the rapid advancements in AI and their potential consequences on society and the economy. He warns of the impending surge towards Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) and its disruptive effects on the workforce and economic structures.

Key Points:

• AI Advancements: AI capabilities are expected to increase exponentially, approaching AGI within a few years.
• Economic Disruption: AI-driven automation is set to eliminate numerous entry-level and coding jobs, exacerbating unemployment and wage stagnation.
• Regulatory Lag: Legislators remain largely unprepared to address the swift pace of AI development, raising concerns about oversight and ethical implications.
• Technocracy Threats: Wood underscores the rise of technocratic governance, diminishing political accountability, and the potential erosion of democratic institutions.

Notable Quote:

[35:31] Patrick Wood: "We probably are very, very close to AGI. That's general intelligence. And you know, at this point, all bets are off really."

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VIII. Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the episode concludes, host Jodi Arrington anticipates intense discussions over the weekend regarding the budget bill's fate. Listeners are encouraged to stay engaged through social media and upcoming segments, which will continue to explore the budget's implications, ecclesiastical developments, and technological advancements shaping the nation's future.

Key Points:

• Weekend Developments: Expect heated debates and potential shifts in the budget bill's trajectory.
• Upcoming Content: Future episodes will cover additional topics, including European politics and further economic analyses.
• Listener Engagement: Audience members are urged to follow updates and participate in the ongoing discourse through various platforms.

Notable Quote:

[52:32] Jodi Arrington: "We are up on social media all weekend. It's going to be on Free fire. We'll see you back here."

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Overall Insights and Conclusions

Episode 4494 of Bannon's War Room offers a multifaceted exploration of the critical budget negotiations on Capitol Hill, highlighting the stark disagreements between Republicans and Democrats over taxation, Medicaid reforms, and deficit management. Chip Roy and Steve Bannon provide contrasting yet intertwined perspectives on how to navigate the bill's complexities, emphasizing the urgent need for fiscal discipline to prevent economic destabilization.

The episode also extends its analytical lens to global and technological arenas, examining the Catholic Church's internal dynamics under new leadership and the transformative, albeit perilous, advancements in AI technology. Patrick Wood's warnings about AI's rapid progression toward AGI underscore the broader theme of unchecked technocracy and its potential to disrupt societal norms and economic structures.

Listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the intersecting challenges facing the United States, from legislative gridlocks and economic uncertainties to religious shifts and technological upheavals. The episode underscores the necessity for informed, proactive engagement in these pivotal issues to safeguard the nation's future stability and prosperity.

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For more detailed analyses and ongoing updates, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to WarRoom.org and follow Bannon's War Room across various social media platforms.

Transcript

[Chip Roy]

I appreciate my friend from Texas, the chairman, and you know, there my Democratic colleagues go again telling things that are not true. The vast majority of Americans will get tax benefits under this bill. It's just simply false to say that that's not true. Hard working Americans who will benefit from the standard deduction increase, hard working Americans that will benefit from child tax credits and lower tax rates. Stop saying things that aren't true. Those things are true. The fact is we have money in here for border to undo the damage of Joe Biden. We have more money in here for the defense to undo the damage of Joe Biden. But we also address Medicaid and Medicaid spending goes up. Stop lying. Medicaid spending goes up. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle are profoundly unserious when it comes to being real about what's happening with the numbers. I applaud Chairman Arrington. I applaud my colleagues on this side of the aisle for taking a step forward in dealing with the spending problem in this town. But I have to now admonish my colleagues on this side of the aisle. This bill falls profoundly short. It does not do what we say it does with respect to deficits. The fact of the matter is on the spending, what we're dealing with here on tax cuts and spending, a massive front loaded deficit increase. That's the truth. That's the truth. Deficits will go up in the first half of the ten year budget window. And we all know it's true. And we shouldn't do that. We shouldn't say that we're doing something we're not doing. The fact of the matter is this bill has backloaded savings and has front loaded spending. Nowhere near the Senate budget top line, by the way. The Senate budget top line of $6.5 trillion, which by the way is what we were pre Covid, inflation adjusted on interest, on Medicaid, on Medicare and Social Security. And if we would reform Medicaid, we could actually get to the core of the problem. But we refused to do it. And I'm not going to sit here and say that everything is hunky dory when this is the Budget Committee, this is the budget Committee. We are supposed to do something to actually result in balanced budgets, but we're not doing it. Look at what happens under deficits. By the way, this chart includes growth. This chart demonstrates economic growth. And right here, what do you see? Baseline and the orange columns are the deficits under the House budget. Assuming growth. Only in Washington are we expected to bet on the comm that in five years, then everything will work, then we will solve the problem. We have got to change the direction of this town. And to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, yes, that means touching Medicaid. It went from 400 billion in 2019 to 600 billion this year. It will be over a trillion in the 2000-30s. We are making promises that we cannot keep. We do need to reform it. We need to stop giving seven times as much money to the able bodied over the vulnerable. Why are we sticking it to the vulnerable population, the disabled and the sick, to give money to single able bodied male adult adults? We shouldn't do that. We should reform it. But guess what? That message needs to be delivered to my colleagues on this side of the aisle too. We are writing checks we cannot cash and our children are going to pay the price. So I am a no on this bill unless serious reforms are made today, tomorrow, Sunday. We're having conversations as we speak, but something needs to change or you're not going to get my support.

[Steve Bannon]

I yield that.

[Jodi Arrington]

Okay. Something did change. We didn't get it out. That was an impassioned speech by Chip Roy Chip. We got today, tomorrow and then Sunday night. What is going to happen, sir, to basically get this spending right, not to front load the spending and back in the cuts? Sir?

[Steve Bannon]

Well, Steve, good morning. Yeah, I mean, we've been working yesterday. I'm in my office now, continuing to work today. Got some meetings with the White House and others this afternoon. We're working in good faith trying to deliver it. And look, I want to be clear. There was a lot of progress made that is reflected in the bill. Okay, let's, let's be honest, there are some very good things in the bill, but it is such a big bill with so many complexities. I'm trying to be honest about what I'm seeing, which is that we see the front load of the tax policy and the backload of the spending restraint. Now, you know, we're having debates about how to square that circle between now and Sunday night when the Budget Committee chairman, Jodi Arrington has called us back in to vote on this, supposedly Sunday night at 10 o' clock. I still think we got a lot of work to do between now and then. We're making progress on two key areas that would change the extent to which it's backloaded, one of which, and I know you've got some views on this and I think we share those views about how to get there, but on Medicaid, right, We want to make sure that the people that, that are the hard working Americans, the working class Americans, the need to be able to get access to care, especially in a post Obamacare world where we've screwed up the entire system in the markets that they have access. But we also think there ought to be work requirements that kick in immediately because we think that's critically important to get people back in the labor force, drive up American workers. So we're not so reliant on, you know, all these people are trying to say that we got to import the chamber of Commerce people. We don't want to do that. So get people back to work and then if they're working, then be able to have the benefits that they're getting under the program. That's critical. And the way the bill was designed is the work requirements didn't kick in until 2029. Well, that's ludicrous. That's after the Trump administration. So we're trying to move those up. So that would front load some of the savings. More importantly, I think it would create economic growth by getting people in the workforce. Second point is that we're trying to deal with the inflation Reduction Act. The president campaigned on terminating it, ending it right out of the gate. And the truth is, as we started peeling it back, a lot of the projects are able to go and a lot of the funding to all of these green New Deal programs continue in perpetuity. There were $400 billion worth of continued flows for all of the Green New Deal projects that were put online that weren't even touched. And then there was, you know, areas where new projects could start if they got started in the next three or four years. As a guys, that's not termination. I understand we have to make some grandfathered exceptions for investments and stuff that are attached to the grid, but we got to terminate it. So we're working through that today and tomorrow. Now those are just two variables. There are many others that we still have to work out between now and next week. We all want tax relief, particularly for hardworking Americans and small businesses. But I'm not going to get put over the barrel because everybody's freaking out that we got to deal with the taxes, especially at the top end of the bracket and so forth if we're not doing what we need to do on the spending side. So that's where we are. A lot of conversation over the next 48 hours. I don't yet know how that's going to unfold. We might be able to address those two issues, but there's still a lot of issues next week still involving Medicaid, the SALT tax issue, overall tax policy and then a lot of little things that, that people are still trying to work through.

[Jodi Arrington]

Arrington is a, is a, is a deficit hawk. It's one of the reasons people felt comfortable him stepping in and taking budget. How did, how did he not joined this earlier particularly like 2029 with look we're all for not messing with working class America as Medicaid. They don't want to be on Medicaid. They're there because all the good jobs have been shipped overseas. But when you see the thing about able bodied people, hey if you it's 80 hours a month, come on man, you got to be able to make that why we have a situation even where you're bringing something up that's in 2029. Who supports that? This is what's so maddening about this thing. Chip.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, agreed Steve. So just to level set on Jody, he's a very good friend, fellow Texan. I think he's done a very good job trying to hold the Republican party's feet to the fire who have always campaigned on tax cuts and spending cuts, tax cuts and balanced budgets but they've only delivered on tax cuts. Now you and I are both hey limited government leave money in the pockets of the American people guys, right? But we also recognize we have massive deficits and debt that's killing the bond markets, empowering a whole lot of people that we don't want to empower and constricting capital flow and slowing down the economy and it's hurting working class Americans. So we need to get rid of the debt sort of dynamically hanging over our head especially after the Moody's rating downgrade yesterday to you know, it's crazy. So Jodi's done a good job. Look, I'll let him speak for himself. I think Jodi felt as the chairman that the they had honored the construct of the framework we had created. I disagree because of the front loading backloading and also to me that was just a baseline for the conversation of one and a half trillion spending restraint with two and a half trillion of assumed growth to then get the tax policy. But I think he felt honored to honor bound to move that forward. I'll let him speak to it. He's a, he's a good man and we've been working, I mean he's a.

[Jodi Arrington]

Guy that's been, he's a guy that's been working on as deficit this you know Scott Bessant and President Trump's plan was to go from six and a half percent budget deficit to GDP down to three and a half percent. We would never get to balance. But let's get. We're unsustainable now. You can't sell this many government securities. The bond market is going to blow up. You got to get from six and a half to three and a half. My issue here is that this, at least what we're talking about now, doesn't do that in the first couple of years. Right. We're not, we're not bending the arc. We're not heading down that path, at least the way my math works. Am I correct or Incorrect on the 6 and a half to 3 and a half?

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, you are correct. And look, here are some of my concerns. Even if I get what I want by tomorrow on moving Medicaid requirements up in ira, which would improve the bill, we would still have significant concerns. And here's some of them. The current ways and means cost to this, right. What we're doing with respect to all of the tax policy right at the outset, you're going to have another $900 billion of interest that's not factored into the CBO score. 900 billion over that time, which needs to be offset by some of the spending restraint. In other words, getting the deficits down. Well, we're going to get some of that. And if we move the Medicaid requirements up and do more on ira, we'll do a pretty good job. But there's still going to be more interest than we're even calculating for then. Steve, if you add to that, if we're refinancing all of our interest at say 4 or 4 and a half or 5% instead of what currently CBO scores is 3 and a half percent. Do the math on that. It's extraordinary. That's why Scott Bessant wants to get that down. He wants to get rates down, to be able to refinance the debt. He wants the deficit as a percentage of GDP down. And he's correct. And Scott's a good guy and he's doing a great job on a lot of fronts. Yeah, but we've got to deliver that spending restraint. And I think the White House is doing a good job trying to manage through this, but we need to do it. I think we need to be more aggressive. To answer your question, no, we are not on a path to get to three or three and a half percent of GDP as our deficit unless we do more in this bill.

[Jodi Arrington]

It's not. That's why it's got to be done now. You can't kick the can down the road. We got to face reality. You got to get from six and a half to three and a half and then you're still not at balance but at least you can finance this thing. Chip, you are going to be, you are working with the White House. We can report that, that you are working with the White House to work through these issues.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, 100%. As you all know, Russ Boat is a great friend and the great guys over there that working with the President. We're having conversations yesterday back and forth. As you know, Air Force One is, they're coming back over from their trip overseas. We're fully engaged. We want to deliver. How that's going to play out I'm not sure. But I have great faith in the White House and in our team to figure this out. Look, we have thin margins. We have to figure out how to corral 218 individual House members. I know the American people frustrated the right to be frustrated. We're constrained by the Senate 60 vote threshold which we ought to be addressing. We're constrained by, you know, we need to get for example, you know, rescissions, get them up and then start moving them. But those are all things that I'm trusting the White House. They're doing a great job on so many fronts. We've got to give them their time. But right now this bill that's in front of us, we've got to work with them to deliver and I hope we can. There's still a lot of variables left and there are some other options we might be able to deploy that I'm not going to get into right now because I don't want to undermine what we're all trying to do to work together. But, but we are working together this weekend to try to figure it out.

[Jodi Arrington]

And right now, 10, 10pm Sunday night, Jody Arrington's called for another budget committee vote. That's still on track, correct?

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah. We are scheduled to reconvene 10 o' clock Sunday night. But right now we still have no, you know, changes yet to that would change anything. But those conversations are underway. We made some progress yesterday. We'll talk today and see tomorrow what what they want to put forward as their proposals for the changes to see if, to see if we get over this next step again. There would then be another step next week which is what we put together in the Rules Committee, whatever managers package is put in to amend it because it would need to be amended for A variety of things. And then whatever deal is struck on, say, salt and additional Medicaid fixes for that whole issue where the able bodied gets seven times more coverage than the, than those people who are the vulnerable and sick population. So we've got a lot we still got to address.

[Jodi Arrington]

Chip, you're putting up stuff on social media all the time. Where do they go to follow you?

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, Chiproy. C H I P R O Y T X. That's my personal Twitter. Repchiproy is my official account. Roy.house.gov Appreciate it, Steve. Thanks for what you're doing. The balance that you're providing about our need for fiscal discipline, our need for appropriate tax relief, all in total totality. Managing Medicaid the right way to make sure people aren't left behind. But still fixing the health care system and delivering on the Medicaid reform we need to deliver on I think is the right, the right spot. So we're trying to work on it.

[Jodi Arrington]

While we got Russ Vote, you got the, you got the guys over at, you got Hassett over to nec, you got Navarro Grape at the White House. President Trump's got a great team over there. You're at the tip of the spear on this over in the House. And let's work through the weekend, get this thing done.

[Steve Bannon]

Thanks, Steve. God bless.

[Jodi Arrington]

Gonna be a lot of heated conversations, folks. Stand by for some heavy roles on this one. But hey, you knew it all was going to come down to this. You watch the war Room? Okay. We got a lot to get through. We gotta go to the Vatican. I got a special guest. I got Dave Bratton, his charts. We're going to Romania. All of it. Plus a special appearance by Grace Chung on a Saturday morning in the war room. How about that? Birchgold got.com take out. Here's what to do. Let's do it. Simple. Take your phone out, text Bannon B A N N O N. That would be me at 989-898. Get the ultimate and free guide to investing in gold and precious metals in the age, not the era, the age of Trump. Do it today. Are you a yo yo dieter? You diet, lose weight, but gain it all back, plus a few extra pounds for the effort. Then later you lose it again and regain it again. And on and on and on. I think I resemble this. It's dangerous. Studies show that you can increase your risk of heart attack, stroke, type 2 diabetes and other health problems. Breaking free of your yo yo diet pattern is a main reason doctors created Lean. Lean is a supplement, not an injection. And you don't need a prescription. The science behind lean is impressive. It studied natural ingredients target weight loss in three powerful ways. Lean helps maintain health, healthy blood sugar. It helps control appetite and cravings. And it helps burn fat by converting fat into energy. Listen, if you're tired of losing weight and gaining it back, if you want to lose meaningful weight at a healthy pace, lean was created for you. Let me get you started with 20% off when you enter. Bannon 20, that's B A N N O N [e-mail] that's code. Bannon 20 to take at take lean.com Bannon 20 that's two zero@take lean.com lose it and keep it off.

[Steve Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

[Jodi Arrington]

By the way, Real, real organic superfood. Field of greens field of greens.com get 20% off. Go check it out today. I take it early in the morning, mix it in with water before I get my warpath coffee and baby pre dawn here in the war room. It's like rocket fuel. Number one, it's got all your fruits and vegetables. You'll feel Absolutely amazing. Feel2greens.com this is real organic superfood. It's not the processed type that you see advertised with billions of dollars on tv. This is the real deal. So go check it out. Fieldofgreens.com Real organic superfood. You'll feel like a million bucks and get a big jolt of energy. Dave Brat. Chip, Roy, you got some charts that explain what he's talking about? Sir.

[Dave Brat]

Yes, sir. And Chip, Chip is American hero, along with four or five of the other guys on that budget committee. I was on that committee. And that's some tough sledding when leadership comes down on your head. But what he said is right. It's very frustrating. The Democrats are lying straight up every time they move their lips. Right? All political views are my own always. But they're just, you know, they're saying we're ripping people away from their health care and all that. All that's false. But the Republican side also, we're trying to execute the Trump agenda. And the leadership is saying we are executing the Trump agenda. And they'll list off five or six things that are great. But at the end of that story, we are left with $2 trillion deficits, minimum, moving forward. And so let me show you. We're supposed to be getting rid of the deep state. Like you just, you just went off on the rant, right? That we just saw what the consequences of that deep state are in the last segment. And that was incredible. Now let me show you the flip side on the economic side, Denver, if you got the first chart, this is all kind of with Moody's in mind and I've integrated Moody's comments on this, but we're not talking details here, right. When it comes to the. But I'm just giving you the big layouts. This is interest payments for the United States of America, the budget process over the past 30 years. And you see at the very far right, they go up to $1.2 trillion. According to Moody's, federal interest payments will absorb around 30% of revenues by 2035. Right. Let me read that again. Federal interest payments alone will absorb around 30% of tax revenues, all revenues coming in by 2035. You cannot execute President Trump's agenda with that being the case. Next chart, Denver. Interest payments is the fastest growing component, except Moody's. Again integrated in. I'm going to get to them in a second. Few comments on them. Expect federal deficits to widen, reaching 9% of GDP by 2035. Right. So Steve's been saying every five seconds, right. We're trying to get from 6% down to 3%. What does Moody say in their report? We expect federal deficits to get bigger, reaching 9% of GDP, not 3. Going from 9, from 6 right now. And as you see at the bottom, the fastest growing component of our budget, our interest payments as well. I'm going to post all these Brad Economics on X and Getter. Next chart, Denver. Here we have spending now 51% higher than in 2019. Look at that chart. The second to last red bar is 2019. Look at the far right, spending, spending, spending. No one wants to talk about this because this is the hard part. You won't be a popular kid. You won't get invited to the wine and cheese Circuit up in D.C. spending is now 51% higher than in 2019. Why, according to Carville and the Democrats and all the deep staters, never let a conspiracy go to waste. Covid came in, ratcheted things up, and we never ratchet it down. Here's what leadership looks like. I mentioned 60 years ago yesterday on the show. Next chart, Denver. Here is after World War II, right, spending goes up through the roof for very good reasons, to defeat Hitler and the Nazis and the fascists, the true fascist who combined big government with big business. And look what leadership did back then under Truman and then Eisenhower and then, you know, the New Deal and Great Society kicked in and spending starts going up. But that's leadership. They didn't keep the spending when they could have. It went down. That's what we need to do right now. Moody's timing next chart. I think people know we mentioned that yesterday on the show. Moody's didn't do the downgrade after the 0708 financial crisis. Instead, I could cover this more. They had to do a big payout for ethics violations. But that blue line, below the blue line at the bottom is the oh 7, oh 8 stock market reality, which is fairly dismal. And then above it is the current state of affairs. And they do a downgrade then. And so last, here's for Steve to get Steve's blood pressure up. Last chart. What's the result? This is from yesterday after the Moody's result, the long end treasuries up 5 basis points. This is a little bit of chart abuse by the person who made it. But they're going up, they're not going down. And that's a message for Congress. And thanks to my friends Dave Ramaswamy and Boy and Metroka for some great charts.

[Jodi Arrington]

The ten year. The ten year Treasuries is what, four? Roughly four and a half. Close to it. You just got to watch it. You hope don't have the inflation. Biden left us to get even worse. And President Trump's doing everything on the supply chain. Dave, we got a bounce. Where do people get these charts over the weekend? We'll get you back on Monday because I'm sure this is going to be explosive over the weekend, folks. I'm going to be up on social.

[Dave Brat]

Media and the realities. Yep, the realities I just put up are not going away. That's why I want them in the heads of the war room brat. Economics on getter and on X today.

[Jodi Arrington]

Okay. In June 15, less than 30 days from today, will be the 10th anniversary of President Trump coming down the golden escalator. Everybody remembers that. That was ten years ago.

[Dave Brat]

Awesome.

[Jodi Arrington]

Okay, I say this is the preamble for the Trump revolution that we're hitting now of all these major, you know, converging crises and dealing with it. But what Dave Brad saying that went by in a flash, right? What Dave Brad's saying 10 years from now on this current trajectory, one third of all tax revenues just goes to pay the interest. Not a penny of debt, no weapons, no schools, no health care, nothing. A third. In a flash of an eye, a third of all proceeds are going to pay for the interest, folks. Dave, Brad, social media one more time, where do you go?

[Dave Brat]

Yep, Brad, Economics on Getter and on X. And all you need to do is keep a few of these facts in mind. It doesn't take many. The four or five facts I gave you, those are not going away.

[Jodi Arrington]

They're not going away. Go read the charts now. We'll be up all weekend on social media. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.

[Dave Brat]

Great. You bet.

[Jodi Arrington]

Let's go to St. Peter's Square tomorrow. The Pope has his mask that basically he's been the Pope since the moment the conclave said it, but tomorrow is kind of the official investiture. Ben Harnwell, your thoughts are where we stand with Leo the 14th.

[Ben Harnwell]

Well, good morning, Steve. We stand in great difficulty. Right here, the piazza behind me, you see the Vatican over my shoulder. That's where it kicks off. At 10am tomorrow, Pope Leo XIV will start the, the ceremony down by the tomb of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, praying for guidance, support as he begins his ministry. And then in the, the Mass itself, there'll be the two key moments where the, the pallium is imposed. And that's like the white sort of, sort of like a scarf thing of Lamb's rule that goes over, over the neck and goes down. And then you'll get the fisherman's ring as well. The secular press will call this an investiture Mass or an inauguration Mass. It's really neither. It's the Mass that marks the start of the Petrine Ministry. The Pope is the Pope to all, to the full authority of his office. From the moment he said, I accept in the conclave, this is basically just a ceremony. But in terms of power, Steve, in terms of secular power, this I think, is when the world, or at least the world's Catholics believe, okay, so now, so now he's the Pope. There were about 250,000 people expected sort of right in the piazza and the Via della Conciliation going down to the river here. And you're going to ask me, well, you know, what is that, Harm? Well, is that a lot of people, is it not a lot of people had compared to the past? Well, I just simply flag up this, that for Benedict the 16th in, in 2025, when he was elected, they had 350, 000 people. So you're going to say to me, well, what's the difference? There's 100,000 more people 20 years ago now. What conclusions do you draw from that? And I'll tell you that the turnouts for these things, Steve, it's a barometer on the state of the health, that the health, the state of the health of the church. And that's because after, was it 28 years or something of John Paul II, the church, for all his faults, and he had a number of them, we saw many of them come to fruition under the papacy of Francis. But for all his faults, the church was engaged and vibrant. So when the, so when Benedict was elected, there were so many people. Now after 12 years of bitterness, division and many faithful Catholics getting kicked in the face, there's a great sense of disillusionment. The palpable sentiment right now perhaps I'll finish this after the break, Steve, because I've got a few points to make, but the palpable sentiment I feel right now in the piazza behind me is one of relief.

[Jodi Arrington]

What about, what about, we got about a minute, a little over a minute, I want you to say what about the traditional Catholics, all the fights we had with Bergoglio, senility, the kind of pagan worship they were bringing in. Where do we stand with all that, Steve?

[Ben Harnwell]

Well, there's a great article in yesterday's Vanity Fair. I think you and Fosso were covered generously in that article. The key takeaway of that, and I will deep dig down on this after the break, is this pivot that so called traditional Catholics made within 24 hours of Leo's election. First they were extremely preoccupied, now they're embracing it. And there's a reason for that. And the Warren posse need to know what that reason is. And that's because it's all about the grift, Steve, that's going on in this huge apparatus that surrounds the Catholic Church. It's all about the grift. But I'll dig into that if I may just after this break.

[Jodi Arrington]

I think you see now that one of the reasons I say he's going to be selected, the New York Times got a great piece this morning, talks about kind of the process of him entering the priesthood, Peru, all of it. But he was selected by, it's very clear by the New York Times. He was selected by Bergoglio. Bergoglio saw him a couple of years ago and didn't agree with everything that he had to say, but saw him as a comrade in arms in taking forward Bergoglio's program. That's why he's been a cardinal less than two years. And I will tell you the possibility that someone has been a car cardinal less than two years that was not very well known to the American cardinals. In fact, they continue to say he's the least American of all of them and none of them really knew the guy. Not that well known throughout the world. Although he did work in the dicastery to pick the archbishops to be selected on the third ballot. No, I'm not buying it. Just like I didn't buy the 2020 election. Short break. Ben Harnwell next. What if he had the brightest mind in the war room delivering critical financial research every month? Steve Bannon here. War Room listeners know Jim Rickards. I love this guy. He's our wise man. A former CIA, Pentagon and White House advisor with an unmatched grasp of geopolitics and capital markets, Jim predicted Trump's electoral College victory exactly 312 to 226, down to the actual number itself. Now he's issuing a dire warning about April 11, a moment that could define Trump's presidency and your financial future. His latest book, MoneyGPT, exposes how AI is setting the stage for financial chaos. Bank runs at lightning speeds, algorithm driven crashes, and even threats to national security. Right now, War room members get a free copy of MoneyGPT when they sign up for Strategic Intelligence. This is Jim's flagship financial newsletter, Strategic Intelligence. I read it. You should read it. Time is running out. Go torickards war room dot com. That's all one word. Rickards War Room records with an S. Go now and claim your free book. That's Rickards War room dot com. Do it today.

[Steve Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Jodi Arrington]

Okay, Ben Harnwell joins us. Ben, you're talking about the grift and the trads. I don't normally associate those two, but what's happening here?

[Ben Harnwell]

Well, Vanity Fair, Steve, did a great favor, great courtesy to traditional Catholicism, to true traditional Catholics by publishing this article yesterday. Then if you put the thing up again as I'm talking, and I'm going to link to this, obviously on Rumble, everyone needs to see this. This is Vanity Fair saying this. Okay? It's not Harnwell. Basically, the thesis is and is absolutely true. Within 24 hours of Leo's election, Cardinal Provost election, all the trads came out saying, oh no, this is terrible. It's catastrophic for our cause. And then they pivoted within 24 hours. And vanity Fair does chapter in verse. Why is this taking place? Well, it's because of this phenomenon that I like to call Traditional Catholic Inc. These are the grifters. You can see them here. You can, all the people that have been taking down their tweets, closing down there, their YouTube film footage. These are the people war impulsive. Don't go anywhere near them. They're not telling you the truth. You mentioned Steve, the New York Times article this morning, I'm going to link to that as well. It does indicate that that bed Goliath stitched the whole thing up. If you don't believe me, go down to the section of this article. Article is called the Vatican Fast Track. It lays it all out. Bergoglio asked one of his colleagues, if I name Provost as head of the office, the bishops, how do you think he will do? And the, the priest response, I, I think you'll do very well. Francis said, I think you'll do very well too. This was the plot. So you've got to ask yourself, if Bergoglia was so gung ho in getting this guy in, in his Pope, why are all the tradition so called traditionalist Catholics, why are half of them going and, and, and pushing Leo saying let's give the guy a chance. He wore the, the red Mozetta on the balcony. Surely he's going to be traditional. The point is, Stephen, I wish I had more time to be build on this I laid out. Now I'll go into it in more detail on another occasion. The truth is this. For Catholic organizations under 12 years of Bergoglio, the donations went down through the floor. So all of these organizations, all these, if they have the word Catholic in them, run for your lives. Okay? All they could do if they were on the conservative side of the spectrum was weekly go through the emotions performatively opposing Bergogalia. Now that they've got someone in who's rather more subtle, they've realized within 24 hours, hang on, we're doing ourselves injustice here. We've got to tell our gullible benefactors and donors that this guy is our new hope. We've got to get that money coming back in. So folks, you're going to see a division in Maga. Vanity Fair pointed this out. They're absolutely right. You're going to see a division in Catholic Maga between the grifters and I have to say, say this, Steve. This war with the war room transmission has been constant from the, from the get go. We've told the truth. We said there was no mourning for Francis. We warned about provost.

[Jodi Arrington]

Is also 10. This is also 10 days before the Conclave. How I picked Prevost because I could see what the fix was in. They were going to get some ideologically, they had a guy that nobody really knew ideologically tied to. Plus he was American enough that the big donors would feel like, oh, I can get access and get a papal Blessing and all the things big donors want, they'd get the American money again. It was only the dramatic drop in American cash that put the fear of God in these people. Right, because they knew that the liquidity problem the Vatican has. So we'll cover it. Tomorrow's the Mass, and then we'll have you back on Monday and go through more of this in depth. But you're 100% correct. Nothing's changed. In fact, Bergoglio and these guys, the radicals, got exactly the perfect Manchurian Candidate, as we say. And we ain't changing one bit. Ben Harnwell, where do people go to follow you? And particularly all the insights you're putting up and all the stories you're gonna be putting up from the media about this entire situation?

[Ben Harnwell]

Steve, I'm exclusively on get to my social media platform of choice. Just tap in at Hornwell, and there I am with my analysis. Thanks, Steve. God bless.

[Jodi Arrington]

Thank you very much. Appreciate you. You know, the other day, I was. I was misinformed. I thought the great Patrick Wood had actually, we had his demise. We did not. He had gotten ill, but turns out he turned it around. Patrick Wood joins us. Patrick, the reason that you were back in the discussion is everything that you've taught us about technocracy, and particularly one of the guys that took that radical idea from the 1930s when it was developed under FDR and with these technocrats, and really kind of drove it forward. That was Dr. Brzezinski, this new book out with Ed Luce. Talk to us about it. Talk to us about technocracy. Well, first off, how are you doing? Everybody welcomes you back and wants to ensure. I was actually shocked when somebody said. I think it was Joe Allen, said, hey, Patrick's alive and well. So how are you doing?

[Patrick Wood]

I'm really doing good, Steve. We have a lot of followers in common, you know, And I got. Immediately I got texts telling me that I was dead. You know, it's like, well, I think I'm still here. But I did have, like, Lazarus. I did have a stroke two years ago, and I had a heart attack as well. And I came through that, and I'm glad to be here. Certainly, it was a miracle. Even the doctors said they did not expect me to recover at all, that here I am. So I'm still in the game, and I'm on the trail of technocracy and transhumanism, and I'll probably be that way until I do die. So here you go.

[Jodi Arrington]

The developments that have happened, and particularly this new biography of Brzezinski talk to me about technocracy and transhumanism. Where do you think we stand? Right now AI is moving down a path which is only one part of transhumanism, but much more rapidly. I think people, people anticipated, sir.

[Patrick Wood]

It really is. By the time that Trump is out of office, by the way, probably the power of AI, the capability of AI is going to increase probably 10,000 to 15,000 times where it is right now. This is the trajectory that AI is on right now. So we probably are very, very close to AGI. That's general intelligence. And you know, at this point, all bets are off really. Hardly anybody understands what AI is capable of doing. It's sweeping the federal government at this point and that's very disturbing to me. But this is a, is the, the pinnacle of weapon development for technical technocrats around the world. And they're using it with great efficiently at this point. And so you see people like Sam Altman, for instance, getting rid of the safety teams and stuff. This is happening all over the industry because they're all racing forward to get the big prize.

[Jodi Arrington]

How dangerous? Like I keep telling people, there's more regulation. If you want to open a nail salon on Capitol Hill Hill or a hair braiding salon, you have to go through more regulations than Altman and Musk and these other folks for AI. What, what's your assessment of that?

[Patrick Wood]

There's been a concerted effort over the years to relax or remove regulations for this whole sector of AI, but not just them in particular, but you know, others as well. But when, when I at this point can escape scrutiny from the Congress and other state legislators around the country, you know, something bad is going to happen because we need this political insight. We also see this, this technocrat class. They're, they're anti politician at all in the first place because we saw this in like in the 1930s where the technocrats of that day hated politicians. And we see this sentiment today. And so, you know, the Congress is being kind of neutered right now over this issue of are we going to let them go or not? And we'll see. I think it's very dangerous, personally.

[Jodi Arrington]

What's your recommendation? What do you think? You're saying that in the march to AGI it's going to be 10,000 to 15,000 times more powerful. That means it's going to be an overwhelming force in the next couple of years. Do you think society is ready for that? Is this constitutional republic ready for that? Are the citizens of the United States maga, are the Deplorables ready for that.

[Patrick Wood]

They're not. They have no clue. But by and large they have no clue. But conservative estimates at this point that AI is like doubling in its prowess every four months or so. You just double that and you know, well, and for four months it'll be double from now, then eight, another four months after that it's going to go to eight and so on. Well, this doubling process, it catches up with you at some point. And you're right, it's going to be overwhelming for most people to understand what's going on. For some people it's going to appear like magic, honestly, but they won't have, no way will they understand at all. But our legislators at this point are really clueless what's going on. And you know, the people that have, that have trusted, for instance, Elon Musk with his doge effort, well, AI is all of a sudden in the picture. Whether you like it or not, it's going to be set in place in stone in our government operation, top to bottom. And who's the watchdog? There isn't any at this point.

[Jodi Arrington]

Who watches the watchman? I think I may have my numbers wrong, but I think I'm close. Microsoft has, is it 3% of the workforce? They're talking about laying off 3% of the workforce, 30%. Anyway, Microsoft's having a big layoff. 30% of the layoffs are because of AI directly. And this is my whole thing about H1B visas now that we got to get up on HB1 visas because it's quite evident AI, as we've predicted, is going to cut through at least the entry level coding jobs very rapidly. Your thoughts? Are we prepared at all for the restructuring of basically the economy, particularly the tech economy around fewer individuals and more. More AI, sir?

[Patrick Wood]

No, there's no, no way that we can be prepared because it's coming. And how do you prepare for something that you can't change? Mark Andreessen, he's one of the guy, one of the tech bros that helped Trump select a lot of these technocrats that came into the administration, Marc Andreessen, just a few weeks ago. Unbelievably, he's supposed to be a MAGA guy, right? @ least he's pretending to be. He said that wages are going to crash because of AI. What does that mean for the, for the American people? Wages are going to crash because of AI. That's pretty serious stuff. Well, this is exactly what is going to happen. Salesforce, for instance, a giant company, they just recently said we're not going to hire any more people because AI is taking the slack. So we don't need any more programmers at that point. And well, you see the handwriting is on the wall. This whole business with robotics right now, this is another issue that we have to confront because robots are coming to a town square near you at this point and it's going to be overwhelming when people see these robots walking around with a brain and they're, they're intermingling with people, telling people whatever, you know, have a nice day.

[Jodi Arrington]

Yeah, Microsoft actually said 30% of their code as of now is written by AI. Patrick. Welcome back, Lazarus. And where do people go? Social media and website to get all your books and writings?

[Patrick Wood]

You bet. Technocracy News, that's Technocracy News and trends where I have the news and also I predict trends as well. That's my main function at this point. And I'm on Twitter as well at Top Stop Technocracy and people are welcome to go and, and interact and get with, with a stream of information that I'm putting out on Technocracy. Well, this is my life. One of my mentors. You know that you're, you're, I've been on this. You're one of my 45 years.

[Jodi Arrington]

No, you're one of my mentors. You know this from the beginning to the end and into the future. Patrick Woods, a great American, a great patriot. Thank you, sir. Honored. Honored. Your honored. Your demise was overstated in your back. Better than ever, sir. There's a lot of talk about government debt, but after four years of inflation, the real crisis is personal debt. Seriously, you're working harder than ever and you're still drowning in credit card debt and overdue bills. You need done with debt and here's why you need it. The credit system is rigged to keep you trapped. Done With Debt has unique and frankly brilliant escape strategies to help end your debt fast so you keep more of your hard earned money. Done With Debt doesn't try to sell you a loan and they don't try to sell you a bankruptcy. They're tough negotiators that go one on one with your credit card and loan companies with one goal, to drastically reduce your bills and eliminate interest and erase penalties. Most clients end up with more money in their pocket month one and they don't stop until they break you free from debt permanently. Look, take a couple of minutes and visit Done With Debt. Com talk with one of their strategists. It's free, but listen up. Some of their solutions are time Sensitive. So you'll need to move quickly. Go to donewithdebt.com that's donewithdebt.com Stop the anxiety, stop the angst. Go to donewithdebT.com and do it today.

[Steve Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[Jodi Arrington]

Okay, we had George Simeon on last night for his last appearance before the quiet day in Romania, which is Saturday. Can't campaign today. Voting starts tomorrow, 7am Scarlet Karoleva, a top young independent journalist, is there on the ground of Romania. Ma' am, why is this election so important?

[Scarlett Karoleva]

Tomorrow, the future of Romania will be decided because there's one thing that's very clear that I've observed here. People are fed up with the current system. They want to have change. And to explain to you why these elections are so important, I will need to give you a little bit of the background information which I haven't heard in any other analysis is, for example, that after the fall of communism in 1989, when Ceausescu was murdered, Romania never actually became sovereign. What happened is that the second layer of the. Of the Communist Party took over. And they. They took over everything, all of the minerals. Because Romania is incredibly, incredibly rich in terms of minerals, oil, gas. And to pack it in a nice way, they now are part of Naito and of the European Union. So you got, you know, the bureaucracy of Brussels on top of that as well. And at the same time, the Romania is still being governed by those Communists. They're still not sovereign. Their economy is incredibly bad. Actually, they paid in three months time, 12.5 billion late. It's 2.5 billion euros just on the interest of the debt that they have. And there's a massive brain drain that they had as a result of entering the European Union. My age, you don't see them around here. The young people have left. You only see old people and you see children. And this is also reflected, for example, in diaspora. The people outside of Romania that voted, they voted for George Simeon because they want to come back home, they want to rebuild their country. They've seen that in Europe there's no future. They want to come back home and rebuild Romania. So this is why the elections are important for Romanians. This is their moment to get their country back and to actually become sovereign. And the second reason why these elections are so important is because it's not just irrelevant for Romania, but also for the rest of Europe. George Siemens has done an incredible campaign going through the different countries in Europe. He met with Giorgia Meloni. He's meeting with, hopefully the next future president of Poland, Noski. And imagine what that will do in Brussels when there's like a strong conservative bloc that can actually counterbalance the Euro federalists like von der Leyen that we're dealing with. Then we can make a change. Then we can make Europe great again. And then we can go back to a nation that has Christianity at the heart of it, that puts family first, that puts God first. And with that, we don't make just Europe great, but we can make the west great again.

[Jodi Arrington]

Scarlett, where do people go? We'll have you on Monday, but we're going to be following this on social media tomorrow. Where do people go to follow you on social media while you're there? Because we know you're very close to the inner circle of this populist, nationalist, sovereignist campaign. So where do people go?

[Scarlett Karoleva]

Yeah. Quickly. To brief on why I'm here is to really make sure that the elections are happening in a fair way. We need to keep in mind that only the people of Romania should go to the ballot and decide who's actually going to be their leader. Just a little quick example and then I'll move on. Yesterday in Moldova, the people could go and vote as well.

[Jodi Arrington]

Because, Scarlet, we're really jammed for time. I just need your social media. We'll follow you on social media because we're really backed up a couple of things. What social media?

[Scarlett Karoleva]

You can follow me on ex at Scarlett, thank you very much.

[Jodi Arrington]

Look forward to following you, ma' am. Great summary. Of course they're going to try to steal it. Paper ballots and all. One day voting. That's where we got to be on point in Romania. Grace Chung, we got a major announcement on merch for the war room. What do you got, ma' am? Grace, you gotta unmute yourself, ma' am. Do we not?

[Grace Chung]

Jenna. You guys might know her as the deplorable artist woman. So we've got original designs. She's a great artist and she really helped us. Steve, when you were in prison, she gave us, like, she donated her time doing all this art. So we're so extremely proud and to be collabing with her. And I'm actually wearing one of her. The nomenclature one. I don't think you guys can see, but it's awesome. It has all of. Steve. What he taught us his nomenclature. And also another one is. It's just so cool. This one is, we are not descended from fearful men and just so much new merch. And we have exclusive designs. This is how we force multiply. So go to war room.org shop war room.org and wear it proud. Start conversations, spread the fire and force multiply. And we have, you know, number two, Pearn Soul. We have fixed bayonets. All this another awesome one, the maga Godfather which is the honey badger. And we're getting so much other designs out. So keep on checking every single week because we have new designs all the time. So that's shopboreoom.org and also by popular demand, we are going to come out with an MBI line. Our team is working on this so we're super excited about it. And remember, it's a movement built in. It's baked in who we are. It's the commitment, the fight, the spine. It's in our DNA. So look out for that. And I also want to mention going into signing up for a newsletter@war room.org we send out, we send out a killer Saturday command brief every week. And also Jojo, she dropped a part three to her boots on the ground. And it's essential reading. She breaks down, she breaks down the real battleground for 20, 20, 26. All the vulnerable Democrats and rhinos holding on by a thread. And we're talking about Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin and yes, even Texas. So that's a must read. You go to war room.org it is there. And also download the podcast. I know some of you guys hate big tech, but just staying on, downloading it, keeping us number one, that sends out a huge message. So lastly, Bill Blaster, billblasterapp.org Keep on calling your representatives.

[Jodi Arrington]

Where do they go for the. Where they go for the merch? Where they go right now?

[Grace Chung]

Go to shop war room.org you could. Well, we're working on this, but we've got also the dark war room hat. We've got great merch. You guys are going to to love it. We're super excited.

[Jodi Arrington]

Thank you, ma' am. Fabulous mouth breathing imbeciles. MBI love it. I can't wait till that's up. Mike Lindell, sell me some sheets, brother.

[Mike Lindell]

All right, you guys, this is it. All good things must end today. The Giza treats. This is. This is it. Everybody go to. We're going to do every Giza sheet, no matter what size. 49.98. There they are.

[Jodi Arrington]

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[Scarlett Karoleva]

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[Mike Lindell]

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[Patrick Wood]

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[Jodi Arrington]

The most powerful promo code in the business. MyPillow.com promo code WAR. And Mike Lindell will see you back here Monday morning live. We're up on social media all weekend. It's going to be on Free fire. We'll see you back here. 10:00am Eastern Daylight Time. You missed the IRS tax deadline. You think it's just going to go away? Well, think again. The IRS doesn't mess around and they're applying pressure like we haven't seen in years. So if you haven't filed in a while, even if you can't pay, don't wait and don't face the IRS alone. You need the trusted experts by your side. Tax Network usa. Tax Network USA isn't like other tax relief companies. They have an edge, a preferred direct line to the irs. They know which agents to talk to and which ones to avoid. They use smart, aggressive strategies to settle your tax problems quickly and in your favor. Whether you owe $10,000 or $10 million, Tax Network USA has helped resolve over $1 billion in tax debt and they can help you, too. Don't wait on this. It's only going to get worse. Call Tax Network USA right now. It's free. Talk with one of their strategists and put your IRS troubles behind you. Put it behind you today. Call Tax Network USA at 1-800-958-1000, that's 800-958-1000 or visit taxnetwork USA tnusa.com Bannon do it today. Do not let this thing get ahead of you. Do it today.

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