Episode 4577: Trump Returns To DC Today; Israel Stands To Have No Air Capability In The War

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bannon's War Room

Title: Episode 4577: Trump Returns To DC Today; Israel Stands To Have No Air Capability In The War
Host: WarRoom.org (Stephen K. Bannon)
Release Date: June 21, 2025

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1. Introduction

In Episode 4577 of Bannon’s War Room, the discussion centers around the escalating tensions between Israel and Iran, with a focus on Israel's strategic military actions and the potential involvement of former President Donald Trump in U.S. decision-making processes. The panel includes key figures such as Michael Smerconish, Steve Bannon, Jack Posobiec, Mark Caputo from Axios, and Tulsi Gabbard.

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2. Israel’s Strategic Military Actions

The episode opens with Michael Smerconish questioning the Israeli Prime Minister's decision to launch an attack without possessing the capability to fully destroy Iran’s main nuclear enrichment site. He suggests that Netanyahu may have anticipated President Trump’s support from the outset.

Notable Quote:

“I think he's probably anticipated that this is something that he's wanted to do for the entire time that he's been the Israeli Prime Minister and has never had such a supportive voice in the White House as he sees in Donald Trump.” [00:00]

The discussion highlights the use of the massive MOP (Massive Ordnance Penetrator) bunker buster bomb, emphasizing its formidable size and capabilities:

• 172-foot wingspan
• Altitude capability up to 50,000 feet
• Mid-air refueling ability

Notable Quote:

“This trial “30,000 pound massive ordinance penetrator, or the MOP, as they call the bunker buster.” [00:43]

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3. Intelligence Assessment and U.S. Involvement

Mark Caputo discusses the intelligence presented to President Trump, indicating that Iran's nuclear capabilities are progressing rapidly, with a particular emphasis on uranium enrichment from 20% to 90%. He points out that while Trump has approved attack plans, he has not given the final order, keeping U.S. options open.

Notable Quote:

“He approved of those plans, but he did not give a final order. So effectively he has the defense community, the military community being prepared for if he were to say go to go.” [01:14]

Tulsi Gabbard elaborates on the alignment between CIA and Israeli intelligence, stating an 80% alignment in their assessments regarding Iran’s threat level.

Notable Quote:

“They are about 80% in lockstep. So it's one of those things that's sort of nuanced.” [03:01]

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4. Political Dynamics and Leadership Challenges

Steve Bannon and Jack Posobiec express concerns over the internal political tensions within Israel, noting Netanyahu’s precarious approval ratings and coalition fragility. Bannon emphasizes that Netanyahu lacks a strong coalition, contrasting with Trump’s higher popularity in the U.S.

Notable Quote:

“Bibi Netanyahu is currently around 30% among Israel and this is mostly because of the situation regarding Gaza.” [25:15]

Bannon also points out that Trump faces pressure from various factions within his administration and the military, balancing hawkish elements pushing for regime change against his own more measured approach.

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5. Military Capabilities and Deployment

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Israel’s lack of sufficient air capabilities to fully neutralize Iran’s nuclear sites without U.S. support. Tulsi Gabbard mentions the necessity of American B2 stealth bombers to effectively deliver bunker-busting ordinances against fortified Iranian locations.

Notable Quote:

“They will likely need the American, you know, the B2 bomb, B2 bomber, and this massive MOP ordinance.” [26:16]

Steve Bannon reveals that President Trump has deployed B2 stealth bombers towards Guam, indicating a strategic positioning to potentially strike Iran if necessary.

Notable Quote:

“President Trump has deployed B2 stealth bombers...heading towards Guam, right smack dab in the middle of the Pacific Ocean as we speak.” [30:04]

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6. Future Projections and Strategic Implications

The panel debates the likelihood of U.S. military involvement, with perspectives varying between those who believe war is imminent ("the party is on") and others who suggest negotiations may still be possible. Tulsi Gabbard underscores the complexity of the situation, emphasizing that while the U.S. is preparing for potential strikes, full-scale war remains uncertain.

Notable Quote:

“It is one of those things that's sort of nuanced. But in the end, Tulsi Gabbard has been in all of, or most of not all the high level meetings about this.” [03:01]

Jack Posobiec highlights the divergent views on the war's progression, questioning the solidity of Netanyahu’s plans and the effectiveness of Israel’s initial strikes.

Notable Quote:

“If you start this and you have to, you got two issues. One, the ballistic missile program that clearly you're absolutely correct that they were making huge progress on.” [26:16]

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7. Historical Context and Strategic Wisdom

The conversation incorporates historical military insights, referencing military theorists like Clausewitz and von Moltke, to caution against overreliance on technology and underestimation of enemy capabilities.

Notable Quote:

“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.” [46:02]
— General Clausewitz

Additional Insight:

“The enemy always gets a vote.” [46:02]

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8. Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the panel's pro-Israel stance, while acknowledging the precarious balance between military action and diplomatic negotiation. The urgency of addressing Iran’s nuclear advancements and missile programs remains central, with the potential for significant geopolitical shifts hinging on the decisions made by both Israeli and American leadership in the coming days.

Notable Quote:

“War, easy to get in, hard to get out.” [32:19]

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Key Takeaways

• Israel's Aggressive Stance: Israel has initiated military action against Iran’s nuclear capabilities, potentially expecting U.S. support.
• Intelligence Alignment: There is a strong alignment between U.S. CIA and Israeli intelligence regarding the threat posed by Iran.
• Political Fragility: Netanyahu’s governing coalition is unstable, contrasting with Trump’s relatively higher popularity.
• U.S. Military Readiness: The deployment of B2 bombers indicates preparedness for possible strikes against Iran.
• Strategic Caution: Historical military wisdom is invoked to emphasize the unpredictability and challenges of modern warfare.
• Future Uncertainty: The possibility of war looms, but diplomatic avenues may still influence outcomes.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript of Episode 4577 of Bannon’s War Room and reflects the views and discussions of the panelists featured in the episode.

Transcript

[Michael Smerconish]

Seems kind of strange that the Prime Minister of Israel would launch this attack knowing they don't have the capability to take out the main enrichment site. He must have been expecting Trump to get involved from the very beginning. I think he's probably. Yes, I think he probably has anticipated that this is something that he's wanted to do for the entire time that he's been the Israeli Prime Minister and has never had such a supportive voice in the White House as he sees in Donald Trump. I don't, I don't think Trump wants to do this. By the way. Let me also own that. I don't think this is something Trump wants to do. I think he wants a negotiated resolution. But it just seems as if Israel has put us in this position where now almost the US is feeling backed into a corner. This 30,000 pound massive ordinance penetrator, or the MOP, as they call the bunker buster. And you can see just how big it is. You've got 172 foot wingspan. And if anyone's been to an air show and seen this, it's quite an impressive thing. Can fly up to 50,000 altitude, capable of midair refueling.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah.

[Michael Smerconish]

And so it's.

[Jack Posobiec]

You can also use a B52, but this is the preferred aircraft because of its stealth, because this aircraft won't be seen coming.

[Mark Caputo]

Tuesday, when he had a National Security Council meeting, he was presented with attack plans on Iran, including going after, for now the nuclear site that is deep within a mountain about a mile and half a mile, excuse me, underneath that mountain, that would require pretty large American bombs in order to destroy. He approved of those plans, but he did not give a final order. So effectively he has the defense community, the military community being prepared for if he were to say go to go.

[Jack Posobiec]

But we're.

[Mark Caputo]

But once you make that decision, once you say, once you get those attack plans ready, it does build a bit of momentum towards saying go now. He can always pull back and it seems like he has with this, with his two weeks play. But he's now having meetings with, you know, people like Steve Bannon about whether or not actually going ahead would break the MAGA coalition. He's having meetings with, you know, people in the traditional Republican hawks who would like him to go ahead and even push further towards regime change. He's, he's caught in a, in a bit of a bind here between, you know, in his own politics and the military situation.

[Jack Posobiec]

You saw the movie, the latest Top Gun movie. Eerily enough, this is that plot kind of coming to fruition in real Life.

[Steve Bannon]

It's not just one bomb. It'll be a bomb after a bomb.

[Jack Posobiec]

To get through that penetration.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Iran has had five decades, five decades.

[Michael Smerconish]

Almost half a century to talk. And what they've done instead, kill 609American troops in Iraq. What they've done is put an assassination plot on President Trump's head. What they've done is take American hostages and wreak havoc on the world.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

America first is not sitting in a beach chair and using words.

[Michael Smerconish]

It's taking decisive action when we can take out for doe the one swoop of an airplane.

[Jack Posobiec]

Do you buy what Gabbard is suggesting, that the media is twisting her words.

[Michael Smerconish]

And that she actually is in lockstep with Trump?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I think she's more lockstep with Trump now. It is true that that was said back in March. There is a discrepancy to a degree between what you saw then and what you see now. But things have also changed since then. And the intelligence is different. Understand, there's two ways to look at intelligence. One, intelligence is little bits and scraps of information. Two, intelligence is an assessment. What she was giving there was the perception of all of the different intelligence agencies assessed together. What the President is relying on now is the intelligence assessment largely of the CIA and to a degree, the Israeli intelligence services. They are about 80% in lockstep. So it's one of those things that's sort of nuanced. But in the end, Tulsi Gabbard has been in all of, or most of not all the high level meetings about this. I'm told she solicits, or better said, the president solicits her opinion. She gives it, he trusts her advice and she's not going anywhere anytime soon. Of course, famous last words for a reporter to say that based on what Trump officials have told him. But that's what I'm being told by a number of people who in the past have been very accurate about such things.

[Steve Bannon]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

[Jack Posobiec]

Pray for our enemies because we're going.

[Steve Bannon]

Medieval on these people.

[Jack Posobiec]

There's not got a free shot.

[Steve Bannon]

All these networks lying about the people.

[Jack Posobiec]

The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but.

[Steve Bannon]

You'Re not going to stop it.

[Jack Posobiec]

It's going to happen.

[Michael Smerconish]

And where do people like that go.

[Jack Posobiec]

To share the big lie? MAGA media I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

[Steve Bannon]

Ask yourself, what is my task? And what is my purpose?

[Jack Posobiec]

If that answer is to save my.

[Steve Bannon]

Country, this country will be saved.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

War Room here's your host, Stephen K. Banner.

[Jack Posobiec]

It's Saturday, the 21st of June in the year of our Lord 2025. I guess it's summer solstice today actually. I guess summer actually starts today, although in the United States and the United Kingdom and other places looked at as Memorial Day or the close to the end of May. Mark Computer Caputo from Axios joins us. Mark, thank you. Is going to be in a moment. First off, if I can get up on the split screen, they put out last night, the President of the United States is actually going to return today from Bedminster. And on the calendar that they put out publicly, he's going to get a national security briefing in the oval office at 6pm and we are working with real America's voice. I think there's going to be a bonus afternoon war room maybe starting around 4 o' clock. More information we get on this throughout the day. We will it looks like we will have assets in place to be able to cover everything live because I will tell you remember in the Bridge Too Far, in the movie about Market Garden, in the Last Bridge at Arnhem, the phrase there was the party is on. And so that is our analysis this morning. Is the party on? Is this thing are we inexorably drawn into this? And maybe the day's the day of action, you know, the one, just the one swoop of a jet Kayleigh McEnany wants just one swoop of a jet just going across. So we got Mark Caputo. Mark, thank you. Pretty explosive. I think you're hit last night with coats on cnn. Can you walk us through just once again, what, what your logic, what your what your your sources are telling you about the intelligence that the president United States is actually getting that informs his opinion on this situation in Persia.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

The main intelligence briefer for Donald Trump has been the CIA, has been John Radcliffe, the head of the CIA and the CIA, its new assessment, its intelligence based on I don't specifically know what because it is the CIA. I shouldn't know what had led the president to believe that there was a significant change in posture and and a threat level of Iran and a need to move. Now since I got more time here, one of the great things about doing podcasts is that we're not kind of hemmed in by two or three minute commercial breaks is I should also add.

[Jack Posobiec]

But hang on, hang on, hang on, Caputa, I want to hang on, Caputa, I Want to make sure we stream this live. So we're a live TV show and we have the three minute breaks. Here's the difference in the.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Oh, really? You usually take more time.

[Jack Posobiec]

No, no, we take more time. No, no, here's why. There's a difference in the, in the old cable, they're just boom, boom, boom. All they want is up there and just get like two sound bites here. We understand a reporter like yourself that is deeply dialed in with great source. In fact, some of the most explosive stories coming out of the Trump White House are coming via you and Axios. Has they ever come out and refuted any major story that you've broken at the White House, given your sources throughout the administration?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Not that I'm aware of. You know.

[Jack Posobiec]

Right.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I guess you, you usually learn more from your losses and your wins and you remember them. So it hasn't happened yet, but, you know, maybe give them, give them time.

[Jack Posobiec]

Exactly.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

But where I was going with that.

[Jack Posobiec]

Is the take your time on this. Take your time, take your time.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

So this, you take it. The CIA, you know, as I said on Laura codes, there's two ways to look at intelligence. And this is one of the problems with reporting saying, oh, there's no new intelligence in Iran, and the president just acted, well, that might mean there's no new bits and scraps and pieces of information, but that doesn't mean there's not a new intelligence assessment based on old ones. Now, we're not quite sure exactly what the CIA has obviously said to Donald Trump and briefed him on, but it's the lead briefer and it is working closely and it always has in the Middle east and certainly when it comes to Israel, will work with Israeli intelligence services. I'm told the intelligence show shared between the 2 is about 80% or it's about 80% identical between the United States CIA and Israel. And based on CIA's assessment, that is when Donald Trump said, you know, I need to do something. Now, what I didn't mention there and what we didn't go into there and we'll go into here is two other factors played into Donald Trump's posture. One, the IAEA report, the International Atomic Energy Agency come out, administration had come out and said, things are a lot more dire or threatening with Iran. That's one. And that's a big thing. And then two, there was a feeling that, in the words of one Trump adviser told me that the Ayatollah quote given us the middle finger and Trump had said, yes, you've got to make A deal or else. So this is what the or else looks like, the building up. And then I see, I think kind of thirdly or in addition to all of these things is the fact that Netanyahu launched his attack. And we have to look at what Netanyahu was looking at. One, Hamas and Hezbollah are degraded. They were great proxies to tie Israel down. Iran proxies, they're degraded. Assad in Syria is gone. And Israel had already had this operation sort of in the works. And at a certain point, with all of these different factors working up is Bibi Netanyahu had continually, for a long period of time, been sort of a almost a dog on a leash here on attack dog, wanting to go after Iran. And, and finally with everything happening, Trump essentially said, I'm not going to stand in your way. And Netanyahu and Israel went ahead. Now, once that attack looks so successful, you know Donald Trump better than I do. You're the guy who had lunch with him the other day. Trump just saw that success and really was wanted to be in that slipstream, as I mentioned at cnn. But the thing about being in a slipstream is you're in someone else's wake and, you know, eventually you can hit some turbulence. And Donald Trump is suspicious about going to war. He is not ready to go to war yet or drop bombs yet. And the reason we know that is he hasn't done it. And I think some of that initial blood being up from Trump in those initial first days has cooled a little as he sought more information, more opinions. As you know, he crowdsources a lot of big decisions and this is one of them. So I can't predict what's going to happen now or, you know, by 6pm but I think it's safe to say that Donald Trump is taking in all of the information he has and he's torn between wanting to go ahead and do this and stop Iran from getting a nuke, in his view, and also on the far end of his spectrum wanting a Nobel Peace Prize. I think he understands you don't win Nobel Peace Prizes by dropping bombs in the name of peace.

[Jack Posobiec]

Piece I want to break down audience that's one of the most sophisticated and smart analysis of where we are. And I want to Mark, I'm going to impose upon you from not going out and finishing your yard work to.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Stick with us for I've already showered.

[Jack Posobiec]

Brian. I want to go before when you say CIA and Mossad are because that's what we're talking about. There's not so much military intelligence, maybe some shin Ben, but it's it's really Mossad that when you say 80%, it's what? 80%. Particularly given the urgency. The urgency. I tell you what, once you hang, I want you to think about that. This is I want to make sure you have a reasoned response. We're here on a Saturday at the traditional Saturday morning war room, as you know, one of my my favorite show of the week because we can catch our breath and go a little more in depth this afternoon. If things play out like we think they may play out. We will be back live around four or five o' clock to see the President come back and and kind of hang around the rim to see what happens. This national security briefing, there are people saying there are a lot of people saying, hey, they're trying to play out the the negotiations. There are also people saying that the Iranians one, there's a lot of dead senior people. Number two, they're pretty bureau the Persians are pretty bureaucratic and slow anyway. It's tough to even get somebody to answer Wyckoff's call about who you even sit down with. There's also this the some of the Persians saying, well, hey, you gotta you gotta put Bibi back on a leash. We can't keep getting bombed and shelled while we're negotiating. We're not gonna be able to sell that to our people because it's gonna look like it's coercive. Right? But there's others. I'm just reporting what I'm hearing from pretty good sources. The party is on. So another big weekend in this unfolding aspect of the Third World War. And no, anyone that's telling you that the Third World War is not here is absolutely does not understand the development and evolution of kinetic war. Short commercial break Mark Caputo from Axios next.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Michael Smerconish]

Seems kind of strange that the prime minister of Israel would launch this attack knowing they don't have the capability to take out the main enrichment site. He must have been expecting Trump to get involved from the very beginning. I think he's probably.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Yes.

[Michael Smerconish]

I think he probably has anticipated that this is something that he's wanted to do for the entire time that he's been the Israeli prime minister and has never had such a supportive voice in the White House as he sees in Donald Trump. I don't, I don't think Trump wants to do this. By the way, let me also own that. I don't think this is something Trump wants to do. I think he wants a negotiated resolution. But it just seems as if Israel has put us in this position where now almost the US Is feeling backed into a corner.

[Jack Posobiec]

Okay. Welcome back. As you know, we've been the, we're a very pro Israel show and site and platform, and we catch a lot of grief for that. We've been very supportive of going after the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas in Gaza. Also what happened in Syria, the destruction of Hezbollah, even the taking out of the, of the Persians, air defense, which the Israelis have done. We're not a fan of this and we're not a fan of this because of what Smerkhanas just said. If the United States is going to be involved, we have to understand that at the beginning. And you're reporting, you just said something last block Caputo, that President Trump and his team kind of acquiesced when these guys came with this because the intelligence is 80% more Assad. Right. In CIA, that sounds like it's 80%.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Yeah, they're about 80% in agreement is what I understand. Essentially like the allegedly. And I don't know what the intelligence is. They sort of mesh up about 80 at an 80% rate. Right.

[Jack Posobiec]

Okay. How did this. But how did this. Was it, was it intelligence that something was happening or is it intelligence that, hey, we can make a move because it's good. And at any time has your reporting showed you at any time, Schmor Corner's point that it was brought to President Trump's attention that yo when this attack starts, they do not have the capability and they admit it, they don't have the capability to finish what they started. And unless it's finished at for door it's not finished. It's really it doesn't matter if you did the 80% or 90% you got or 75% you got doesn't matter because you got to get that last 25%.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

So sir, I can't speak to that. What I can tell you what I was told by one senior official when I asked, okay, it's been reported that there was no new intelligence. But then Donald Trump essentially said there was. What's the deal? And I was told this is that in the view and the assessment of the CIA and therefore the administration now, the Iranians were making progress three ways making the delivery system for nuclear weapon, huge progress there. I'm quoting, by the way, getting more centrifuges and the guts to make a bomb, huge progress there. Enriching from 20 to 60 to 90%. Not as much progress. We're talking months and weeks, not days and not years either. And what I was led to believe is where the two intelligence agencies are countries might differ is the degree of the enrichment and the speed with which a nuclear weapon can be assembled and deployed.

[Jack Posobiec]

So that would confirm I just want to go back to their own words that would confirm. On Sunday evening in Brett Baier, who's the star of the really new side of Fox, interviewing Bibi. And he asked kind of the same question I just asked you. And he said, look, you know, why, why did why was it Thursday night? What was the urgency? And he kind of went through some of those, but he said it's about 12 to 13 months away. Right. Is it any it's all the summation of yours that it's sometime in the it's sooner than it's been in the past in the ieae. We shouldn't miss this. In Israel's side, they're saying now that they're getting enrichment for, I don't know, 10 to 15 bombs or the potential for 10 to 15 bombs. Am I correct about that report which shocked everybody?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I can't remember that specific number. But when that, that report, pardon upon not intended when I thought of it, it was a bombshell report because it just showed the degree of uranium enrichment that was happening. And when we go back to What Tulsi Gabbard was saying before she was saying the amount of enrichment that, and this was in March that Iran was engaging in was not consistent with a peacetime nuclear development. So there's been this narrative out there that she's some sort of peacenik who sort of massaged the numbers. And now some of her emphasis obviously probably with the benefit of hindsight, could have been harsher, harder or more dire. But what's clear and what really was made clear in the IAEA report was Iran was doing a lot of enrichment in their assessment and that had a major effect on understand that when Donald Trump withdrew, I can't Remember if it's 2019 or 2020, 2018 in his first administration, Donald Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal, the JCPOA struck by Obama and other nations with Iran. And one of the criticisms then was that the United States shouldn't have done it and Iran would have been able to then enrich more uranium and would have freehand to do it, however was still sort of bound by the other signatories. Nevertheless, in the the agreement there is something that they call snapback, which essentially calls for much more sanctions and much harsher treatment of Iran if it did stuff like what the IAEA report showed. And that's a major thing. I think what's also being left out, and I'm guilty of this, of the discussion in Israel or Bibi's mind is it's not just that Iran's proxies were degraded. It's not just that Assad was gone from Syria. It's not just that the Israelis had a plan that was, had a high degree of likelihood of success which wound up being true. It's not just that Iran, according to the IAEA and all of these other reports showed that Iran was close to making a nuclear weapon or was dangerously close to it. It's also that Iran's missile program was starting to progress in leaps and bounds a lot faster than is comfortable for Israel. And Israel, it's not just Iron Dome, that's just sort of, sort of a, kind of a catch all term. But Israel has a tiered air defense system of interceptor missiles to shoot down rockets and missiles. In fact, the United States I think has what, seven or we have seven thaad theater high altitude area. I can't remember the exact term the interceptor missile systems and two of them are in Israel to help them cope with this. Yes, but the thing with having an interceptor missile system, and I'm just going to use just simple terms if you've got 500 interceptor missiles and your opponent launches a thousand missiles, guess what happens? You get hit by 500 of them. And Israel was looking at being overwhelmed by a bellicose Iran, should it launch those? So everything for Bibi and understand this and obviously has domestic problems at home, which is a whole other kettle of fish. All of those things just lined up where this just was the time for them to attack. And to Smerkanish's point in the back of Netanyahu's head, it is widely believed he thought that Trump would get caught in the slipstream and would just sort of be brought along to do this. I don't know though, when it became clear that they need the United States to bunker bust the Fordo nuclear facility under a mountain, it's number one unclear how effective that's going to be. And despite the saber rattling on Fox or other shows that, oh, we just have this sort of magic bomb that's going to blow things up. There is a long history of war of those who are unaccustomed to the horrors of it are most eager to engage in the activity. And you know, we've seen time and time again what famous quote from Kaiser Wilhelm in World War I that the boys will be back by summer. Well, they weren't. And so Trump is well aware that the promise of technology or swift battles and effective victories and bloodless wins is a sort of a pie crust promise, to use the Mary Poppins term. You know, it's easily made and easily broken. No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy. As Clausewitz had said.

[Jack Posobiec]

There'S so much there and I want to get, I want to get Jack in, but I just want to get one point very clear. And there's no plan. Max Boot has reinforced as many people reinforces that are not MAGA and pretty much never Trump there is. The Israelis have no capability. Right. And I'm not talking about commando racing like that. But they have no air capability. They know no air capability. If you start this and you have to, you got two issues. One, the ballistic missile program that clearly you're absolutely correct that they were making huge. The Persians making huge progress on and that was a concern, but on the actual enrichment in the facility of actually weaponizing this, it gets down to Fedor at the end. You have to make sure that that's out. And I think they've scattered it all over the country, but at least you got to do that. They don't have, they don't have the actual, you know, air assault capability to take that out, that absolutely has to come from the Americans, does it not?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

It does. They don't have the bomb and they don't have the delivery system to deliver the bomb, that is the planes. Now, in the past, Israel had actually offered, and this has been known for a while, to say, hey, look, we'll fly the planes, right? You know, blood won't be on your hands. So I know that was said in prior or I was told that was said in prior administrations. I'm not sure how in play that is here. But yes, in order for there to be more certainty and in order to really destroy the facility, they will likely need the American, you know, the B2 bomb, B2 bomber, and this massive MOP ordinance that said there is a component. And there are people who say the famous military idea that fire without maneuver is inconclusive, maneuver without fire, suicide. But in order to really make sure there's a school of thought that there does need to be boots on the ground or do need to be boots on the ground, that some commando or other sort of group of men, soldiers or whatever, have to go in there and get the stuff and then blow it up. Now, the United States is not. That would mean Israel, Israel doesn't like to spend its soldiers because it's a small country. So that leaves the logical option of just bomb the hell out of the mountain. But that might be inconclusive. Last thing. Ted Postal, MIT scientist and expert.

[Jack Posobiec]

Hang on, I want to hold this. I want to hold this. I'm going to hold this after the break. Hang on.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Sorry.

[Jack Posobiec]

With us, we've taken Caputo out of his garden and put him on the show, which he should. These should be on prime time everywhere. Taking the time to actually walk through this with real reporting from the White House. Is the party on? If it is, folks? Well, we'll talk about that.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Jack Posobiec]

Okay.

[Steve Bannon]

Full stop.

[Jack Posobiec]

You're gonna have to insert this. Okay.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Jack Posobiec]

I'm a get Jack Posobic in here. By the way, Birch Gold, always on Saturday. Take your phone out. Bannon 989-898. I think now is the time. There's enough turbulence. Only going to get worse. 989-898 to get the ultimate guide for investing in gold in the age of Trump and you get access to Philip, Patrick and team. Make sure you do that today. Pasopic I'm bringing you. But I got to mention I've never had a reporter of any type actually quote Clausewitz the way it should be quoted in a perfect time. But I would be remiss if I didn't say that your father, first Lieutenant Philip Caputo, I think wrote if not the best book in the Vietnam War, one of the best books in the Vietnam War, the Rumor of War. He knew war, did he not, sir?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Yeah. I mean I was brought up. He was a reporter before that. In fact, the reason you know about Mayor Daley's voting fraud is because he was part of that Pulitzer Prize winning team for the Chicago Tribune back in 72. But I was certainly brought up with as a son of a Vietnam vet and who was there on the shores in 65 and then returned as a reporter to cover the fall of Saigon in 75, had seen what happens with the promise of war and then the realities of it. And very often those jingoistic people who predict that things are going to go great very often don't know what they're talking about. Things don't go so well.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah. The Gulf of Tong king, Jack Bosovic. By the way, if people have never you want to read a great book on Vietnam, Da Nang, 1965. From a ground Pounder's view of the Marines, A Rumor of War would be a great weekend read for folks. Compared to that the Gulf of Tong King and all the, all the chest beating that went into Vietnam and then the, the men that actually had to deliver in the brutality of it and oftentimes it seemed the purposelessness of it and the bravery and the valor of our Vietnam veterans. You want to get a, you want to get a real view from the ground Rumor War is your book. There's other great ones too, but this one's fantastic. Your dad's just an extraordinary writer. Mark. Jack Bosobic, observations on what brother Caputo has been putting forward.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Well, Steve, I have to agree. Caputo is exactly right on these situations. War, easy to get in, hard to get out. And my former boss there, Mr. Michael Smerconish, cribbing off of stuff that I've been saying on the war room all week. But that's okay. It's not the first time that he's cribbed off of Posovic back when I was in college and he would, you know, take all my, take all my drafts and never give me credit for his op EDS and his Mumia Abu Jabal book. But, but look, Steve, the latest is that President Trump has deployed B2 stealth bombers. These Spirit bombers, each of the with two bomb bays have the ability to drop these bunker busters. They have been conducting refueling, so there are some indications that they may be riding heavy as they fly out across the Pacific. Fox News reported earlier this morning that they have indications they're headed for Anderson Air Force Base. Now that's on the northern end of Guam. I was out at the southern end of Guam a couple of times on, on the naval base there. But up in the northern base they have a huge Anderson Air Force Base. This is the key role of Guam and the island hopping campaign that was undertaken in World War II regarding this. Now that would put them just at the outside of strike range for an Iran run. Now this is not as close to Diego Garcia, certainly not as close as Saudi or our airbase in Qatar, which are there obviously in the Gulf. So if they wanted to strike Iran from Guam, they would have, they would have the ability to, through air to air refueling. We know these KC135 have created this air bridge basically around the world at this point. And of course they could also redeploy to Diego and then fly up from there. But currently it looks like those B2 bombers, four to six of them flying in formation with, with refuelers and others are headed towards Guam, right smack dab in the middle of the Pacific Ocean as we speak. So President Trump clearly ratcheting up the pressure here on Iran to make a decision.

[Jack Posobiec]

He's getting the assets. He's getting the assets in place. There's no doubt to give him alternatives. Mark, help us out here. The this is the question, understanding you didn't have the ability to actually get this done, completed, complete the mission, right. What was the urgency from your reporting and what you've heard and what you know, what was the urgency that you had to have a sneak attack, Pearl harbor type strike last Thursday night to kind of as the initiating event of this conflict, what was it that if anything, more than just the urgency of the matter and since their stated objectives have been from the beginning, including what you said, the acquiescence of Trump's administration ago, when did this? Because it's clearly shifted to a decapitation regime change. Now, we said on Friday when we started our coverage that this was a decapitation, at least the military, maybe not the ayatollah, but the senior military command, even people outside the nuclear program, it was a decapitation, looking like regime change at the time because to us it looked pretty, pretty obvious. But what was the urgency to do this? And then when did they get into the upsell? Let's try to upsell the Americans on regime change, sir.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Well, I can't speak to Netanyahu's mind frame, but as described to me, this was the time where it would never be more propitious for Israel to strike. The Iran was on its, its, its proxies were gone. It was close to developing a nuke, allegedly. It definitely had a missile program that was a dire threat to Israel. Trump had finally said, I'm not going to hold you back. And so it was go time. I don't know all the factors and all the intelligence. I think if you were to feed all of these factors that I laid out into chat, GPT or some sort of logic game, it would have told Bibi to make the strike when he did. So that is just a guess on my part, based on just my understanding, filtered through others, of what Israel's calculus was. The administration has told us, and we have reported at Axios that, yeah, the Israelis want regime change. We don't. That's not really our concern. I was told by a senior administration official and as evidence of that Netanyahu did want to strike the Ayatollah, we are told. And Donald Trump said, don't do it. And when I asked this official why not? They said, consider this to be. It's a case of the Ayatollah, you know, versus the Ayatollah, you don't know. And Trump still wanted sort of more time to make a deal. He still might want some more time. But to Jack's point, boy, the pressure really is ratcheting up.

[Jack Posobiec]

When you say the pressure is ratcheting up because there's colleagues of yours that are in the party. Because right now, as we sit here on Saturday morning, audience, there are two schools of thought of what's happening. One is that the party is on, that a decision not only has been made, but it looks like it's totally futile to try to negotiate with. There's even not enough guys there. You don't know who's making decisions. They're talking about they need to cease fire. The Israelis are not going to do that. So there's a party is on school, and then there's others said, hey, this two weeks thing may play out. Caputo, from everything you know currently, because you're working this weekend, where do you think we stand?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Sir, in all my conversations, people think it's more likely than less likely that the United States is going to strike Israel or better, pardon, pardon me, Iran. However, it hasn't happened yet. Now all the pieces aren't in place, but maybe the party's not on, but the hall is rented, the bunting is up, there's punch in the bowl, and some people are walking in with hidden blasts of booze.

[Jack Posobiec]

Sir, how can we follow you on. On social media? How, how do we follow you today? Because I know the audience is going to want to do that. Where do they go?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

More active on Twitter than anywhere else. Arcacaputo. It's Mark with a C there. I am Sandy. Technically, my first name is Mark Antonio, so easier to remember with a C than otherwise. But I have the extra A in there because someone else had the Mark Caputo handle when I went to go found it.

[Jack Posobiec]

Last question. Did your father, in your knowledge and study of military history, did that come from your father? Or is that something that got you interested later as you realized who your father was?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Well, I pulled off the shelf like this. Is this, you know, the cloud? Switz Jomini. These are the books from Officers Candidate School that he had. This says Danang June 23rd home. Almost. Almost the anniversary of that 1965. So that's Kyle Switz. You know, there's there's Vegetius, which is probably my favorite book, Mao Tse Tung. But these are from the ocs, from, from the, the Marine Corps back in the day. But he, after he was a soldier or a marine, he became a foreign correspondent and covered a number of conflicts in the Middle east and elsewhere, including I think the Six Day War in Israel, war in Eritrea and Ethiopia. So he did quite a bit of foreign correspondent work. And he left that line of work after, well, almost after he was shot in Beirut, not fatally, but when it went to hell there And I guess what, 76, 77, that's when it was sort of time to get out of the combat zones.

[Jack Posobiec]

Mark Caputo, thank you very much for sharing this.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Thank you. Appreciate you guys. Take it easy. Good to see you. Jack.

[Jack Posobiec]

Posovic thoughts?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Well, Steve, the one thing that I would add to some of the calculus on here is that in, in Israel, it's not as if Bibi Netanyahu is currently sitting on top of a strong coalition the way that President Trump is. President Trump's currently 54, 55% popularity among the American people. Bibi Netanyahu is currently around 30% among Israel and this is mostly because of the situation regarding Gaza and he faced just about two weeks ago. Right, right. On the eve of when all these strikes kicked off, he faced a serious challenge to his premiership in that his coalition almost broke apart and he narrowly survived a leadership vote by just single digit votes because on the question of this, this ultra, ultra orthodox party wanted to pull out and they didn't want to do the conscription, they didn't want to be conscripted anymore. And this has been a longstanding issue of theirs in Israel. So and there are also elements by the way of that I'm told, of the Israeli national security infrastructure saying that wait a minute, is this being done out of political concerns for Bibi Netanyahu personally, or is this being done out of and he's claiming that it's being done out of national security concerns. And so, you know, I would just like to throw that in the mix because we do always have to consider the political calculations here as well as the national security calculations and the intelligence. That really could be the question for why, as anyone can agree. Steve, how many different versions of the intel have we heard at this point? Right. We've heard they're about to have it. They're going to have it in two days. Well, now it's actually delivery system. No, no, no. It's the enrichment then. It's a, it's a month away, then it's a year away, then, you know, and you've got Israeli military telling AFP last night, the Associate Free Press that they, because of the initial strikes and the runs that have gone over the past week and a half or so here, that Iran's missile program has been or their nuclear program has been delayed by two to three years. And Netanyahu and the New York Post has it up right now. No, you know, Murdoch paper says that has Netanyahu saying we can go it alone. So there's it's all over the map here. And I think that one of the reasons that a lot of Americans are scratching their heads at the lightning fast speed that all of these events are moving is that we haven't had to sit down and have a serious adult conversation about why this had to happen right now. And no one can really pin us down on a clear answer on that.

[Jack Posobiec]

Jack, can you hang on? I know you're you're busy with the family day, but I just want to hold you through this short break because I want to talk about the ballistic missile program and the citizens of Israel are taking some serious incoming. You've got to talk about the Dome, how it's worked, the American involvement, the, the naval assets that are helping, the air assets are helping because a underreported story is that the citizens of Israel and Bibi's, I think his his polling has got to be at a record high. They are, I believe all the controversy around Bibi has been has been, I think, settled because they are obviously very focused on taking out the Persians. To them, they know it's a, it's a it's a existential threat. And, and, and there is conflicting reporting this morning, both agency free Press saying the Israelis saying they've knocked the nuclear program back two or three years and Bibi telling the New York Post they can go it alone to finish the job, finish what they started. Short commercial break we got POSO for one more segment, so let's take advantage of it. Short break Back in a moment.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Jack Posobiec]

I love this guy.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Jack Posobiec]

You should read it.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Jack Posobiec]

Rickards War Room.

[Steve Bannon]

Rickards with an S. Go now and claim your free book. That's rickardswarroom.com do it today.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Banner.

[Jack Posobiec]

I'm informed by the engine room that it is not Clausewitz, it's von Moltke. About the von Schlieffeland plan, that any plan only survives, no matter how well thought, through first contact with enemy. Jack Posobic. Those officer candidate books that Caputo's dad had to read an officer candidate school at Quantico back in the mid-1960s before he went to Vietnam as a first lieutenant, infantry officer, are the ones that you've had to read and I had to read. Talk to me about or Mike Tyson. Put it more. Put it better or more succinctly. Everybody's got a plan until. In the box. Everybody's got a plan until you get punched right in the mouth, sir.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Well, Steve, that's right. You and I went up through OCS up there in Newport. I don't, I don't know when you went through. I went through a winter. And if anyone's joined in the Navy and you're going up to Navy ocs. Do not go to Newport in the winter. That was one of the worst mistakes I ever made. Covers blowing off all over the place in the snow and in the rain and all the rest of it and you have to run across the parade ground to go get it. Not, not a good look for, for butter bar Passobic in that one. But the enemy always gets a vote. And I see these people on cable news and so, and I just look at them and say, did you serve? Did you serve? Did you serve? Did you serve? Have you actually been in operation? Have you seen what happens when troops get involved and you get so many people, Steve, and they have this Marvel movie thinking, you know, like it's Star wars and Luke Skywalker is going to fly up and, oh, you just drop one missile in and it's going to blow up the whole Death Star. And I'm sorry, that's just not how the real world works. Plus, the Iranians also understand how our bunker busters work. And Caputo mentioned the MIT professor who said, wait a minute, there's a lot of problems with this plan. You got angles upon angles that you have to deal with. You're talking about reinforced granite that has, they have ways to deflect the explosion. They know about our bunker busters. It was designed to protect from bunker busters. All of which to say, this isn't going to be one fell swoop. It's going to take multiple missions, it's going to take multiple flights. So you're talking potentially if each, each B2 can carry 10. These things are the size of a bus, OK? These bombs, massive, massive bombs. And so if each one goes over, so you've got two in tandem, they're flying sorties over, potentially over. Now that's, that's that, you know, pray to God that nothing happened, no malfunctions, no anti aircraft, you know, fire comes at them, sure, they're going to be able to fly high enough for that, I assume, but you've got to hit this thing dead on each time, possibly 10 strikes to get the job done. And then there's real questions as to whether or not the technology is still just going to survive. And really all you're going to do is set them back and you have to be back here in two years when President Trump is still president because they're going to be able to dig it out or reconstitute it somewhere else. And so there's, there's serious questions of, look, if you put in this much, that's why that we're going to get sucked in to a wider thing. And that's what a lot of people are scratching heads on. And I'm, and I'm sick, by the way of this smear campaign, Steve, of people calling you an isolationist and calling all the MAGA isolationists and saying, oh, you're isolated. No, no, excuse me, we are America first Populist nationalist. Was President Trump an isolationist when he posed the Iraq War? Was President Trump an isolationist when he said we need to get our troops out of harm's way in Syria where they're not doing anything, sitting there as human shields for everything, all the chaos that's going on in the land, as President Trump said, the land of blood and death? No, he wasn't isolationist. He was putting American interests first. And because he understands, by the way, he's read history, right? And you see these neocons that's the problem. They don't read any history. They're not reading Clausewitz, they're not listening to Worm, not doing any of this stuff. So they don't know about the danger of imperial overstretch. Because the danger of imperial overstretch is that you forget about the heartland, you forget about your core population. And the core population of the United States is hurting right now. That's why President Trump is the president. That's why we don't have Jeb Bush as the president. Jeb Bush, who's now the president of, you know, the anti Iran coalition over there, by the way. It's like the band is getting back together over on that side.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah, hold on. Take it. Take a second. Take a second. That was sent to us by the engine room. Talk about. Jeb Bush actually chairs a group, right? That's the anti Iran coalition, sir.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Dave, let's go back to basics, all right? The Bush family is an oil family. They are oil men, right? There Will Be Blood, the great film. Paul Thomas, go, go watch that, right? You understand the Bushes. Go watch that. This, they are still look, licking their chops, looking at the oil fields of Iran, saying, you know something, we couldn't quite get all the oil out of Iraq. And so we go and look over at Iran and you know what, there's all that oil there. And, you know, we had, we had access to it under the Shah. And then Mosi Gdeg came up and he was trying to nationalize everything, got rid of him, and we got a new shah in. But then these, but then these pesky little Islamists came up and now we got, we got kicked out again. Well, first it was the British, and then we got kicked out as well because we tried to back to the British because after the war, they couldn't. These guys, Steve, they don't read any of the history. They don't read any of the history. They just say, you know what this is? This means money for us. Money and power. And they don't look at the broader scope of things. And, and here's. Here's something somebody was saying to me earlier, said, oh, Jack, you're just, you're just pushing Iranian and Chinese narratives. Excuse me, hold on a second. Our carriers just dropped coverage in the South China Sea to go to centcom, which means that China now has a free hand. China is now operating more carriers in the South China Sea. The United States, for the first time in history, they got to the Shandong and the Liaoning. Then you got Russia. They said, Wait a minute. Who is benefited by $150 barrel gas? Well, that's Russia. $150 oil Russia is benefited. That fuels the coffers of the Kremlin to be able to ground and pound as they've been doing to the Ukrainian army. So Putin's going to sit back and say, hey, don't do this, but if you want to put money in my pocket, you know, I'm not going to stop you. All right. That's what kicked off that whole thing was NORD stream, too. And so to these people that are looking at this saying, oh, it's going to be good for America, good for America, you're not looking at the wider scope of the consequences of your actions, Jack.

[Jack Posobiec]

No, you got to bounce. You got family obligations. Hopefully we can grab you later in the afternoon if we do this live coverage and working this through right now. Where do people go, Jack, on your social media and your social media feeds?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Steve I'm here. I'm tracking it all. Human events daily. By the way, last night, Charlie Kirk and I put up a huge episode of Thought Crime. I would encourage everyone to go check that out on my podcast, Apple, Spotify and Charlie's as well. Where we got into all of this, we got into every single piece of this book of Genesis, Ted Cruz, all the scripture, all the theology, all the all the politics. We walk through chapter and verse, including the bunker busters and whether or not FOX News is telling you the truth about the physics on this.

[Jack Posobiec]

Jack Posobic, go with God today. We'll see you this afternoon. Tucker Carlson, Benny Johnson, the great Charlie Kirk, Jack Bosovic, toss a worm in there, folks. Done a pretty good job at making sure you got all the information so that you can in the fog of war, because there's a lot of fog out there, folks, that you can see clearly. We're not going to let this be like the Iraq war. We're not gonna let all this church sure leading and the roads are going to be thrown down there. We're going to give you a reality check, make sure you fully understand what we're getting into. Because we get into it, we're going to have to see it through. Right? Right. Mr. Ben Short, Commercial break Back in a moment.

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