Episode 4657: President Trump Inspects Fed's Over Spending

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode 4657 – President Trump Inspects Fed's Over Spending

Release Date: July 24, 2025

Overview

In Episode 4657 of Bannon's War Room, host Stephen K. Bannon delves into a pivotal moment where former President Donald Trump inspects the Federal Reserve's (Fed) ongoing construction project, scrutinizing significant cost overruns. The episode features an intense discussion among key figures, including President Trump, Fed Chair Jerome Powell, Steve Bannon, Bill Pulte, and James Fishback. The conversation navigates through the intricacies of federal spending, interest rate policies, and legal challenges against the Fed’s transparency.

Key Discussions

1. Inspection of Federal Reserve's Spending

   President Trump leads the discussion by highlighting the Fed's substantial budget overruns related to their construction project. Initial estimates of $2.7 billion have escalated to approximately $3.1 billion.

   • President Trump [00:16-00:27]:

     "So we're taking a look and it looks like it's about 3.1 billion. Went up a little bit or a lot. So the 2.7 is now 3.1."

   • Steve Bannon [00:48-00:56]:

     "Are you including the Martin renovation you just added... That's a third building."

   The dialogue reveals confusion and lack of awareness among Fed officials regarding the sudden increase in projected costs.

2. Expectations of Further Cost Overruns

   The panel discusses the likelihood of additional expenses in the Fed's project.

   • Jerome Powell [01:14-01:16]:

     "Don't expect them."

   • Steve Bannon [01:20]:

     "We're ready for them, but we have a little bit of a reserve that we may use."

   Powell expresses optimism that no further overruns are anticipated, though reserves are in place should they occur.

3. Potential Accountability Measures

   The conversation touches on the possibility of holding Fed officials accountable for budget management.

   • James Fishback [01:26-01:34]:

     "Generally speaking, what would I do? I'd fire him."

   • President Trump [01:37-02:00]:

     "I don't want to get personal. I just would like to see it get finished... it's going to be a real long time because it looks like it's got a long way to go."

   Trump emphasizes a focus on project completion rather than personal accountability, despite acknowledging the significant delays.

4. Economic Policies and Trade Deals

   President Trump shifts the discussion to broader economic achievements, including a major trade deal with Japan aimed at reducing tariffs.

   • President Trump [02:08-02:29]:

     "Japan is putting up $550 billion in order to lower their tariffs... we get a zero tariff in the free trade. We don't pay tariffs... they're going to pay 15% on everything they send into our country."

   He underscores the positive impact of these deals on the U.S. economy and expresses a desire for the Fed to lower interest rates to further stimulate growth.

5. Legal Challenges Against the Federal Reserve

   The episode highlights a significant legal move against the Fed for conducting closed-door meetings, allegedly violating the Sunshine Act.

   • Steve Bannon [17:24-18:50]:

     "We filed a lawsuit against Jerome Powell for breaking federal law by holding the Federal Reserve's rate-setting meetings behind closed doors... there is going to be an emergency hearing on Monday afternoon at 2pm in the D.C. federal Courthouse."

   This legal action aims to enforce transparency within the Fed, advocating for public access to meetings and decision-making processes.

6. Discussion on Natural Interest Rates

   Experts analyze the current interest rate policies, arguing that the Fed's rates are artificially high and detrimental to the economy.

   • Steve Bannon [11:43-13:55]:

     "Inflation has had five consecutive lower than expected, better than expected inflation prints... mortgage originations down 76%... it's at least 100 to 175 basis points too high."

   • James Fishback [07:56-08:01]:

     "I’d fire him."

   The panel contends that lowering interest rates is essential for economic recovery, citing decreased mortgage originations and high inflation as evidence of the Fed's mismanagement.

Notable Quotes with Attributions and Timestamps

• President Trump [00:27]:

  "Yeah, it just came out."

• Steve Bannon [01:20]:

  "We're ready for them, but we have a little bit of a reserve that we may use."

• James Fishback [03:47]:

  "This is the primal scream of a dying regime."

• Jerome Powell [30:42-30:59]:

  "Interest rates need to come down. The country is exploding and there's this one part that could allow it to go even higher, to have relief for families that want get new mortgages."

• Bill Pulte [35:20]:

  "The 3.1 billion is important. There's a cost overrun. [...] The cost overrun is massive. That's their own document."

Legal and Economic Implications

The legal challenge against Jerome Powell and the Federal Reserve represents a significant confrontation between executive influence and independent economic policymaking. By alleging violations of the Sunshine Act, the plaintiffs seek to dismantle the Fed's tradition of confidentiality in monetary policy discussions. This move could set a precedent for increased transparency and accountability within federal economic institutions.

Economically, the episode underscores a contentious debate over interest rate policies. The proponents of lowering rates argue that high-interest rates are stifling economic growth, hindering mortgage accessibility, and exacerbating personal debt issues. Conversely, the Fed maintains that current rates are necessary to control inflation, although this stance is increasingly questioned by critics.

Concluding Remarks

Episode 4657 of Bannon's War Room presents a critical examination of the Federal Reserve's financial management and policy decisions. Through robust discussions and strategic legal actions, the episode highlights the ongoing struggle for economic control and transparency within U.S. financial institutions. The interplay between President Trump's economic initiatives and the Fed's policies reflects broader tensions in national economic strategy, with significant implications for the future of U.S. economy and governance.

Additional Resources

For listeners interested in further details on the legal case against the Federal Reserve or the economic models discussed, visit WarRoom.org for more in-depth analysis and updates.

Transcript

[Donald Trump]

Sending them a lot of very expensive work. There's no question about it. And Tim has been with me for a long time. And you're in charge of the committee.

[Jerome Powell]

Indeed.

[Steve Bannon]

One of the reasons why I wanted.

[Bill Pulte]

To see it was the overruns of the expenses.

[Jerome Powell]

Wanted to figure out why.

[Donald Trump]

So we're taking a look and it looks like it's about 3.1 billion. Went up a little bit or a lot. So the 2.7 is now 3.1.

[Bill Pulte]

I'm not aware of that.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, it just came out.

[Jerome Powell]

Yeah.

[Steve Bannon]

I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed.

[Donald Trump]

It just came out.

[Jerome Powell]

Our notes had it about 3.1 as well.

[Steve Bannon]

3.2.

[Jerome Powell]

This came from us?

[Donald Trump]

Yes. I don't know who does that.

[Steve Bannon]

Are you including the Martin renovation, you just added.

[Jerome Powell]

You just. You just added in a third building.

[Steve Bannon]

Is what that is. That's a third building.

[Donald Trump]

It's a building that's being built.

[Jerome Powell]

No, it's been.

[Steve Bannon]

It was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years ago.

[Donald Trump]

It's part of the overall work.

[Steve Bannon]

It's not new.

[Donald Trump]

So we're going to take a look. We're going to see what's happening. And it's got a long way. Do you expect any more additional cost overruns?

[Jerome Powell]

Don't expect them.

[Steve Bannon]

We're ready for them, but we have a little bit of a reserve that we may use.

[Jerome Powell]

But, no, we don't expect to be finished in 2027.

[Steve Bannon]

We're well along, as you can see.

[James Fishback]

What would you do with a project.

[Steve Bannon]

Manager who would be over Bud?

[Donald Trump]

Generally speaking, what would I do?

[James Fishback]

I'd fire him.

[Steve Bannon]

Do you think this issue, Mr. President, gives you cohorts to do that?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'm here just really with the chairman. He's showing us around, showing us the work. And so I don't want to get that. I don't want to be personal. I just would like to see it get finished. And in many ways, it's too bad it started. But it did start and it's been under construction for a long time. It's going to be a real long time because it looks like it's got a long way to go.

[Jerome Powell]

Yes, sir.

[Steve Bannon]

Are there things the chairman can say.

[James Fishback]

To you today that would make you.

[Bill Pulte]

Back off some of the earlier criticism?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'd love him to lower interest rates. Other than that, what can I tell you? The country is doing really well. I just briefed the chairman on the deal we made with Japan. Japan is putting up $550 billion in order to lower their tariffs a Little bit that way they have a little bit lower tariff. And they also opened their country to free trade, which nobody thought was even a possibility. And we get a zero tariff in the free trade. We don't pay tariffs. And they're going to pay 15% on everything they send into our country. So it's great. But they put up, as, you could call it seed money. Let's call it seed money. You could call it anything you want. But it's five. It's a total of $550 billion. So nobody thought any of that was possible. And it's wonderful. And we're doing pretty well with the European Union, likewise. And we have some others. They're all really big. And our country is going to make a lot of money. We would be helped if interest rates would come down, but we're going to see how the board rules on that soon. I'd love to see them come down a lot. But we have a country that's thriving. We had a dead country one year ago. Today we have the hottest country anywhere in the world. And we'll get this one finished. Thank you. Yeah, that's a terrible thing. I have great respect for Tulsi and the documents they found on President Obama. Frankly, it was an Obama thing, but it was the people that worked under him also working with him. And no, it's a very, very serious thing. Thank you very much.

[Steve Bannon]

Thank you, Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you, everybody.

[James Fishback]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Reasons I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen. And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

[Jerome Powell]

MAGA media I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

[James Fishback]

Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

[Steve Bannon]

War ROOM here's your host, Stephen k. Ban.

[James Fishback]

Thursday, July the 24th of July, in the year Overlord 2025. I'm asking first part of that to be we're kind of doing this on the fly. President just finished the tour over at the Versailles on Connecticut Avenue. And for people in this city, in the imperial capital, see what they've done over there to what was called the temple. On this construction, it looks like you know you are building Versailles. People can't really understand the scale of it. You saw President Trump there. It's $2 billion and now another billion overrun. Who knows? I wanted a lot more of the first part. The inspection seemed like it was pretty fast. I think it started at about 4:00', clock, 4:10, and of course ended at about 4:45, 4:15. Took questions from the press. You've heard of Alpha and Omega. This is alpha and a beta. This is an alpha dog. And I don't know what Powell is, but man, he's a beaten man. Whoever on his staff told him he had to do this. You're supposed to be an independent agency. I guess if the President says you show up, you show up. But you can take a look at Powell and see he's not enjoying this. This is one of the most brutal photo ops in the history of Washington, dc. Let's go ahead and play. I want to replay the first part of this because it's so good. President Trump went over like he went to the Kennedy center to inspect the billing, see what in the hell is going on here. Why is this, you know, now he says $3.1 billion, but it was also to kind of see Powell and say, hey. And President Trump answered, I'm not going to fire you, but I want you interest drop interest rates. 300. 300%. Excuse me. Yeah, 300 basis points. Excuse me. 300 basis points. Go ahead and replay the beginning of that ending.

[Donald Trump]

I'm in a lot of very expensive work, there's no question about it. And Tim has been with me for a long time. And you're in charge of the committee.

[Jerome Powell]

Indeed.

[Steve Bannon]

One of the reasons why we wanted.

[Bill Pulte]

To see it was the overruns of the expenses.

[Jerome Powell]

Wanted to figure out why.

[Donald Trump]

So we're taking a look and it looks like it's about 3.1 billion. One up a little bit or a lot. So the 2.7 is now 3.1.

[Bill Pulte]

I'm not aware of that.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, it just came out.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, I haven't heard that from anybody.

[Donald Trump]

The Fed just came out.

[Jerome Powell]

Our notes had it about 3.1 as well.

[Steve Bannon]

3.1, 3.2. This came from us?

[Donald Trump]

Yes. I don't know who does that.

[Steve Bannon]

You're including the Martin renovation.

[Jerome Powell]

You just added. You just. You just added in a third building.

[Steve Bannon]

Is what that is. That's a third building.

[Donald Trump]

It's a building that's being built.

[Jerome Powell]

No, it's been.

[Steve Bannon]

It was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years ago.

[Donald Trump]

It's part of the overall work so. So we're going to take a look. We're going to see what's happening. And it's got a long way. Do you expect any more additional crossovers?

[Jerome Powell]

Don't expect them.

[James Fishback]

We're.

[Steve Bannon]

We're ready for them, but we have a little bit of a reserve that we may use.

[Jerome Powell]

But, no, we don't expect to be finished in 2027.

[Steve Bannon]

We're well along, as you can see.

[James Fishback]

What would you do with a project.

[Steve Bannon]

Manager who would be over budget.

[Donald Trump]

Generally speaking? What would I do?

[James Fishback]

I'd fire him.

[Steve Bannon]

Do you think the Mr. President gives you cohorts to do that?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'm here just really with the chairman. He's showing us around, showing us the work. And so I don't want to get that. I don't want to be personal. I just would like to see it get finished. And in many ways, it's too bad it started, but it did start, and it's been under construction for a long time.

[James Fishback]

Going to be.

[Donald Trump]

It's going to be a real long time because it looks like it's got a long way to go.

[Jerome Powell]

Yes, sir.

[James Fishback]

Mr. President, are there things the chairman can say to you today that would.

[Steve Bannon]

Make you back off some of the earlier criticism?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'd love him to lower interest rates. Other than that, what can I tell you? The country is doing really well. I just briefed the chairman on the deal we made with Japan. Japan is putting up $550 billion in order to lower their tariffs.

[James Fishback]

And what he described as an upfront payment. We'll have to deconstruct that. But right there. Not alpha and Omega. Right. Which is from holy scripture, but alpha in the beta. That was one of the worst photo ops I've ever seen. And of course, Powell. No, it's 3.1. No, it's 2.7. No, it's 3. 1. Hey. And he gives it. Nobody at the Feds told me that number. Not that a number at the Fed would ever be wrong. Far be it from any number coming out of the Federal Reserve to be wrong. And, of course, Trump hands him a beverage. 3. I think it's 3. 2. Then they start arguing about it. Is that a building? No, it's a building that was completed five years ago. That's not what you want to be doing on global television. Secretary Powell, just take it, fold it, move on. Don't get into a debate because you're not going to win. President Trump's really over there, I think, to talk about interest rates again. He made a pretty thoughtful description of what he wants to see and how important he thinks it is to lower rate interest rates. 300 basis points. Far be from President Trump going to overshoot the target to try to get the deal he wants right to drag it his way. I don't think we're going to be seeing a 300 basis point rate cut anytime soon. But I think he's putting the guy on notice. He wants, they're talking about 25 basis points in September, maybe another 25 basis points in December. He wants more and he wants to be more aggressive and he makes a very compelling argument to get there. Of course, I think Pulte was with him. We're going to have, we're going to have Brother Fish back on here as soon as we get him up. He's been a big critic of the, of the Federal Reserve and a big is he up right now? He's been observing all of this. And of course, Paul, I think Pulte actually made it over there. Brother Fishback, thank you for joining us. Particularly today when president is doing a tour of the Federal Reserve. First off, can you just walk your audience through your bona fides here? We're going to talk a lot about the Fed, a lot about President Trump's economic plan in this kind of historic trip. I think it's the only third time in the history of the Republic that a president United States has gone to the Fed. Once was fdr, I believe this correct. FDR to actually, you know, inaugurate the building, the buildings, this building, very famous building, was built during his term. And, and then I think Jerry Ford went over there because a buddy of his was a governor or something. But I think this is only the third trip. So pretty, pretty, pretty important. Can you walk the audience through since this is your first appearance, what your background is and why you have become a Fed observer. So, sir.

[Steve Bannon]

Well, good afternoon, Steve. It's an honor to be here on War Room with you. I run an investment firm called Zoria. We have an anti DTI ETF that strips the woke out of the S&P 500. It's called SP XM. I've spent the last 10 years prior to starting Azoria working as an interest rate options trader. And so my job was literally to follow every word of the Fed, to build out my own economic models, to anticipate what the Fed was going to do next and then to try to capitalize on those shifts. And I got to tell you the truth, Steve, when I look at the Fed today, I barely recognize I can barely understand what's going into their decisions. Let's not forget this is a Federal Reserve that cut interest rates right before the 2024 election by 50 points, the largest cut in over four years, and now will not cut rates. Even though inflation is lower today than it was when that pre election cut happened. It's lower today than it has been in four years. And under President Trump's leadership, inflation has had five consecutive lower than expected, better than expected inflation prints. And so I look at the housing market, when we've got new home sales, the lowest since 1995, we've got mortgage originations down 76% compared to President Trump's first term. That is something you lay squarely as the responsibility of the Federal Reserve. And so Jerome Powell has a responsibility here, which is to look at the real economic data for inflation, mortgage origination, home sales, the employment picture, and bring rates down. I'll leave it at this point, Steve, which is the Federal Reserve's own models agree with President Trump and disagree with Jerome Powell. The New York Fed has what's called a natural rate model, which anticipates projects where interest rates would be in their natural setting. Those rates are more than one full percentage point lower on a natural basis than the artificially high rates today. And so President Trump is going to keep delivering, whether it's on the big beautiful bill or new foreign investment from Japan or elsewhere. But the truth is that Jerome Powell has a responsibility here to look at the data and to lower rates accordingly.

[James Fishback]

James, can you hang on for one second? I want to get into some details that the audience wants to know about natural rates. Also want to know about what an interest rate options trader does and why you know, these models backwards and forwards. We're going to take a short commercial break. We'll be back in a moment. We're going to start at the Fed and with money. President went over there today historic and historic tour to see where, you know, he watches the taxpayers money like it's his own. He wants to know why it's $3.1 billion to build the Versailles on the Connecticut Avenue. He's kind of shocked. I'm sure he'll be up in Truth Social tonight giving more observations. But he also had a chance to talk to the media about a lot of things, but principally about his Japanese deal, the economy, why he thinks a 300 basis point cut makes sense. We're gonna put that to James Fischbach short commercial break we're gonna be back in a moment. America, this July there is a Global Summit of BRICS nations in Rio de Janeiro. The block of emerging superpowers including China, Russia, India and Persia are meeting with the goal of displacing the United States dollar as the global currency. They're calling this the Rio Reset. As BRICS nations push forward with their plans, global demand for US Dollars will decrease, bringing down the value of the dollar in your savings. While this transition won't not happen overnight, but trust me, it's going to start in Rio. The Rio Reset in July marks a pivotal moment when BRICS objectives move decisively from a theoretical possibility towards inevitable reality. Learn if diversifying your savings into gold is right for you. Birch Gold Group can help you move your hard earned savings into a tax sheltered IRA and precious metals. Claim your free info kit on gold by texting my name Bannon. That's B A N N O N to 989-898 with an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers. Let Birchgold army with a free no obligation info kit on owning gold before July and the Rio Reset Text Bannon B A N N O N to 989-898 do it today. That's the Rio reset. Text Bannon at 989-898 and do it today.

[Steve Bannon]

Kill America's Voice Family Are you on Getter yet? No.

[James Fishback]

What are you waiting for?

[Steve Bannon]

It's free, it's uncensored, and it's where all the biggest voices in conservative media are speaking out.

[James Fishback]

Download the Getter app right now. It's totally free. It's where I put up exclusively all of my content 24 hours a day. Want to know what Steve Bannon's thinking? Go together.

[Steve Bannon]

That's right. You can follow all of your favorites.

[James Fishback]

Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk, Jack pos and so many more. Download the Getter app now. Sign up for free and be part of the new. Okay, go up on Getter. I can use it and I'm a. You'll be able to use it because you're not. It's the easiest social media out there and we put up a lot of great content and it's got a fantastic following. A lot of War and Posse and a lot of Not War and Posse. Let's go check it out. Putting up great news all the time. James Fisbach. Speaking of news, we have breaking news even as we speak. Very serendipitous that you're here. Walk us through what just broke across the tape.

[Steve Bannon]

Sir, we just heard from the federal judge in our lawsuit against Jerome Powell that we Filed this morning. This is a reminder. We filed a lawsuit against Jerome Powell for breaking federal law by holding the Federal Reserve's rate setting meetings behind closed door. That contravenes the government in the Sunshine act of 1976. We asked the federal court very simply to block next week's Fed meeting from happening in secret. We just heard from the federal judge. She handed down the order, which is that there is going to be an emergency hearing on this on Monday afternoon at 2pm in the D.C. federal Courthouse. This is Judge Darrell Howell appointed by President Obama. She has immediately ordered the Federal Reserve's attorneys and our attorneys to meet for a hearing on Monday at 2pm right before the Fed is set to meet on Tuesday. Our temporary restraining order would block Jerome Powell's Federal Reserve from meeting behind closed doors. Steve, you and I have big see eye to eye on this. We have concerns that what Powell may be doing is politically influenced. And the American people, whether they voted for President Trump or voted otherwise, deserve to know what the government is doing in their name with their money. And we're gonna bring that all to light. And so federal hearing in this emergency injunction against Jerome Powell in D.C. monday at 2pm it just came across, James.

[James Fishback]

So this is huge. That law was passed as a whole thing to have transparency in the government post Watergate. But the Fed's been meeting in private. In fact, the Lords of Easy Money.

[Steve Bannon]

Yes.

[James Fishback]

You know this great book that was written. Chris went back and looked at 10 years because they keep their minutes secret for a decade. He had to go back and look at. And so it's an amazing book. By going back, they haven't. Have they ever had these Fed meetings? Did anybody ever implement the sunshine rule at law? And did you think it was a long shot when you first thought of this to go do it that way? Just lost him. Okay, let's get him back up in a second. Wow. So they went back to law. That was kind of. I think it's one of these post Watergate reform of government laws. And sued for Trojan and of course Beryl Howe, that battle axe, she said let's have a hearing on it. So they're going to have a hearing on Monday for the closed door meeting. I think all the meetings have been closed door. I don't ever remember. I don't ever remember the meetings being otherwise. Remember you go back to Lords of Easy Money where I said if you read that book. And there's another book out about during the pandemic what the Fed did to basically infused the government, the economy with an additional trillion dollars not even authorized by President Trump. I said, you read these two books and you'll have a, you'll have a revolution in this country. It's just absolutely amazing what goes on. And what the author did in Lords of Easy Money, he basically goes back and reconstructs from the financial crisis of 2008 and reconstructs all the boards of the governor's meetings. And these meetings are talking about the Open Market Committee and all that. He reconstructs from the minutes because he could finally get to them in, I guess, 2018 and 2019, because that was over a decade. They're kept secret up until then. President Trump today at the Federal Reserve really to cede Powell and say, once again, I want, you know, I want loans, I want interest rates at 300 basis points lower, which is a pretty big, a pretty big shocking. You know, that would be a, quite a, that would be really a dramatic drop. James Fishback right there, who specializes in this and models this, says that if you look at their model the way it should be, the natural interest rates, it should be at least 100 basis points or 1, 1 point lower, which as President Trump started off with that, he should. James, given the sunshine laws he'd been around, Everything's been in secret, I believe. What got you the idea could use that law to actually wedge this thing open, sir?

[Steve Bannon]

Well, Steve, it was really about using the overturn of the Chevron doctrine in the Loper Bright case that we were able to, of course, win because of President Trump's appointees on the Supreme Court. And so what Chevron doctrine is, the war room audience will know very well. Is it over? It gave federal agencies like the Fed deference. It allowed them to tell the courts how they wanted to interpret federal law and regulations that apply to them. The Supreme Court overturned that. And so that is a massive tailwind for our case against Jerome Powell. And I mean, this was asking for a TRO is a long shot by any stretch of the imagination in any, in any sense. Steve, you know this. But as a conservative in Washington, D.C. forget about it. What we just heard from Judge Beryl Howell, appointed by President Obama, is that she is now moving forward with an emergency hearing on our tro. If we are successful at that hearing, Steve, on Monday, this will be the first Fed meeting in nearly 50 years, a half century that is open to the public. The public deserves to know what the Fed is doing during those deliberations. Because when I talk to folks, woman stopped me the other day in the Airport, Steve. And she said President Trump is doing a great job, but Jerome Powell is too late. Jerome Powell's job isn't making any sense, but he's keeping rates near 20 year highs despite the fact that inflation is now at a four year low.

[James Fishback]

We get back to your model and natural laws. I want to stick with this for a second. What do you tell, tell the audience what will take place if not, if you're not using deconstruction, the administrative state, the Chevron exemption, all that, if you're not able to actually open this up, what will, what normally happens at these Fed meetings and why is it, why do you believe it's so important for us actually to see how the sausage is being made?

[Steve Bannon]

It's so important because in that room there are 19 people who are deciding the cost of how much you pay on your credit card, whether you can afford a mortgage. If you can't afford a mortgage, you can't get a home. If you can't get a home, may not be able to start or grow your family. You're a small business owner, you're a farmer, you want to expand your cattle ranch. You can't do that if interest rates are near 20 year highs. And that's the predicament that we're currently in. Let's talk about the way things are right now, Steve. Which brought Azoria, the investment firm that I founded and run, that brought Azoria to bring this case against Jerome Powell in federal court today, today's meeting, the meeting that is set to happen next Tuesday and Wednesday at the Federal Reserve. The minutes, the full transcript of that meeting, what was said and by whom would be delayed, would be withheld by the Federal Reserve until January 2031. Imagine if the Federal Trade Commission or the FCC was creating new laws and regulations and was not releasing the deliberations for half a decade. The Federal Reserve is arguably the most important economic body in the country. They're the least transparent by far and the least accountable by far. And so, Steve, even though this lawsuit is Entitled Azoria Capital vs Powell, we bring it on behalf of every American who deserves to know what the Federal Reserve has been doing behind closed doors, because none of it makes sense. It doesn't make sense when Jerome Powell is cutting by 50 points right before the election, what looks like a political attempt to help Kamala Harris. Inflation is lower today, closer to the Fed's target, and he refuses to cut rates at the four meetings that have happened so far this year, likely because Donald J. Trump is the 47th president of the United States.

[James Fishback]

Chris Leonard, who wrote the book Lords of Easy Money, went back. That's, you know, the book is such a revelation because you couldn't see the minutes, he couldn't see the transcripts until a decade, decade later. You're absolutely correct. What are you guys going to argue on Monday? What, what is your basic argument to the judge if it hasn't been done in 50 years, doesn't precedent take over, override, override the Sunshine Laws, Sir?

[Steve Bannon]

It's a great question. It is a really good question. So our immediate argument would be you've been breaking the law for the last 50 years. It doesn't give you excuse to break the law again. The second is that Azoria as an investment firm has unique standing in this case that others may not have. And that is an investment firm. We have an anti DEI ETF, Steve. It's called SP XM. It's available on any brokerage account. Because of that ETF and our forthcoming Golden Age ETF, both of which invest in the U.S. treasury market, we are an active participant in sort of open market operations and asset purchases that the Fed does. So when the Fed sets interest rates and doesn't disclose what sort of policy thinking went into that decision, we are harmed, and we would argue we are irreparably harmed by that sort of opacity, by that secrecy. And so our argument is that we have unique standing. The Chevron doctrine has been overturned and that this meeting in particular comes at a time where the public, Republican and Democrat, is rightly concerned that monetary policy under the leadership of Jerome Powell, or lack thereof, is being unduly influenced in a way to undermine the duly elected President of the United States. That in turn hurts millions of Americans. Mortgage rates, Steve, they're at a 24 year high. Credit card rates are at a 25 year high. New mortgage origination is down 76%. New family home sales are down to the lowest level since 1995. All of this lays at the feet of Jerome Powell. I think he's a good guy. I met him a couple times when I was a macro trader attending these econometric conferences. But I got to tell you the truth, it's not that rates are simply too high. They are artificially too high. The natural rate models that we've built at Azoria that we look at from the New York Federal Reserve suggest that rates are at least 100 to 175 basis points too high. And the President Trump coming out and saying that rates should go 300 lower. That is perhaps a negotiating Strategy, but we believe rates do need to be a lot lower, a lot faster.

[James Fishback]

James, can you hang on for one second? I just want to hold you into the next. The, the audience is, is loving this. I want to make sure, I want to make sure we break down and get some analytics here on, on the rates and the natural rate and all that. And what you did is a options trader in rates. Short commercial break we're gonna be back in the worm on Texas Monday. We're gonna Texas Monday. 972 Patriot. Go there today. Check out Patriot Mobile. Short break what if he had the brightest mind in the war room delivering critical financial research every month? Steve Bannon here. War Room listeners know Jim Rickards. I love this guy. He's our wise man. A former CIA, Pentagon and White House advisor with an unmatched grasp of geopolitics and capital markets. Jim predicted Trump's Electoral College victory exactly 312 to 226, down to the actual number itself. Now he's issuing a dire warning about April 11, a moment that could define Trump's presidency and your financial future. His latest book, MoneyGPT, exposes how AI is setting the stage for financial chaos. Bank runs at lightning speeds, algorithm driven crashes, and even threats to national security. Right now, War room members get a free copy of MoneyGPT when they sign up for Strategic Intelligence. This is Jim's flagship financial newsletter, Strategic Intelligence. I read it. You should read it. Time is running out. Go torickards war room dot com. That's all one word. Rickards War Room records with an S. Go now and claim your free book. That's Rickards War room dot com.

[Steve Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[James Fishback]

So James, hit rewind for a second. President Trump has been hammering this and yes, I do believe the 300 basis points. He believes that. But I think he also knows, knowing his negotiating style, he's trying to drive Powell to a point. Walk us through this concept. Okay, hang on for a second.

[Jerome Powell]

Let's go.

[James Fishback]

Yeah, let's go. Right to Russ. Vote at the, at the sticks, we'll come back to James Fishback.

[Jerome Powell]

Interest rates need to come down. The country is exploding and there's this one part that could allow it to go even higher, to have relief for families that want get new mortgages. Very, very important. We're going to keep asking the questions. A lot of still things that we could have done better, a lot cheaper, we kind of got, you know, we've seen the paper now you kind of get to see the tunnels, the atriums that didn't exist before and we're going to continue to ask those kind of questions.

[Bill Pulte]

Russ, you guys have avoided linking the idea of lowering interest rates to the president's scrutiny of this project, but the president is talking about them both at the same time. You're talking about them both at the same time. How much does the administration's concern about this project have to do with frustration that Jay Powell won't do what the president says he will?

[Jerome Powell]

Mr. I think he's, the president is a builder. I mean, we've learned, the three of us have learned more in this afternoon. Seeing him on a job site, going around and talking about, about how he would have done things differently, the expensiveness of something, and you just can't take that away from someone. Bill's the same way. And so we want this to go. We want this thing to get done cheaply and we want to make sure the taxpayers have as much information about what the state of the facts are.

[Bill Pulte]

Is the president saying he'll back off.

[Steve Bannon]

From what you were told of what you saw today on the ground at the Federal Reserve? Do you believe that there is fraud happening there like the president was alleging?

[Jerome Powell]

We're taking a look. Look, Senator Scott's going to continue to have a major document request that either went up tonight or earlier this week or last night, earlier this week. We still have questions that we want answered. We want the facts, but we're taking a look at it and that will continue. But I think what was helpful about today, today is that we got to see on the ground, when you see something on paper, what's that referring to? And the extensiveness of what they really embarked on, really digging out an entire new basement, a tunnel. We don't have a tunnel here between our buildings. They have atriums that never existed before. Just the extent to which they put up wood on all of the, the panels, the extent to which air condition was flowing throughout the job. There's a lot of things about this that I think would raise questions and we're going to keep working at it and do this in a very deliberative approach.

[Steve Bannon]

So the president said that he would fire a project manager who went over budget like this. Do you believe this is cause for Jerome Powell's removal?

[Jerome Powell]

Mr. You guys have always tried to make it this metaphysical conversation, conversation about the Fed, and it's not. The president has policy views. He wants lower interest rates. You are asking him, you're asking him about tariffs, you're asking about all sorts of things. He gets to talk about lower Interest rates. At the same time he gets to talk about his opinions about how he would do a building cheaper project.

[Bill Pulte]

3.1 billion versus 2.5.

[James Fishback]

And Trump and Powell both went back.

[Jerome Powell]

And forth on that. The headquarters. The headquarters is three buildings. The two that are still in progress are the Eccles and the one that's next door to it with the tunnel. Right. That is a $3 billion and counting project that started at 1.8. It is massively overrun. It's massively overrun. If you take just the two buildings. Nearly a billion dollars of cost overrun. So again, we've got a lot of questions. Those questions were not satisfied. But we certainly have a better sense of what's going on.

[Steve Bannon]

Why did Brittany decide to do this almost historic tour given that's how rare.

[Bill Pulte]

It is for a president.

[Steve Bannon]

And also did this tour today do anything to change dynamic or improve the dynamic between federal.

[Jerome Powell]

The President is a world class builder and when he learns that his team is going to go and do a tour of the Federal Reserve that's literally like three blocks down, he's going to want to be a part of it. And we were thrilled that he wanted to come along.

[Steve Bannon]

How was Jerome Powell's demeanor? Did you find him to be open in your inquiries? Did you find him to be cordial?

[James Fishback]

How would you describe him?

[Jerome Powell]

I mean much of it was on television. I think they had good conversations and some of it we weren't privy to. And we're able to really go through the tour and get a sense of what each other were looking at.

[Steve Bannon]

The presidential right now is about the price tag of these renovations. Do you know for certain right now how much this has cost to do these renovations?

[Jerome Powell]

No, I don't know for certain. I'm going off a third party information that's been released and that information search is going to continue. We still want to get to the bottom of the plans that were submitted and how they have changed. Those never came back into the National Capital Planning Commission.

[Bill Pulte]

I don't even think they know the cost. I don't even think they know the cost. The 3.1 billion is important. There's a cost overrun. You can look. These are the Fed's own internal documents that were FOIA and are published online. It went from 1.8, 1.9 to 2.5 and down to 3.1 for the capital expenditures within their own budget for the total renovation and build of the complex. So the chair is really splitting hairs there when he's saying, well that's this building. Okay, if you take that building out of it. It's still an inflation from 1.4 billion to 2.5 billion. There's no way around it. The cost overrun is massive. That's their own document.

[Steve Bannon]

Does find fraud through this investigation. Does that mean the President then would fire Chair Powell?

[Jerome Powell]

We are where we are, which is we want lower interest rates. The President, that is his policy view. He thinks it's vital to the country economically. And we are also on a host of issues, this one being one that is front and center today, trying to do things cheaper on behalf of the American taxpayer. And there's a lot of ways you could have done this differently.

[Bill Pulte]

If the Fed cuts rates, if the Fed cuts rates, is the President going to drop this inquiry? If the Fed cuts rates, will he drop the inquiry?

[Jerome Powell]

This is. He's approaching this as a builder. We want to get this done. So we want a project to get done unrelated to interest rates. That's what's important. You know, it's on the National Mall. It needs to get done as soon as possible. And we can't have the situation where this is hanging over the country's head.

[Steve Bannon]

The President would have the power to fire a venture if he chose to.

[Bill Pulte]

Or is that a. I think the President every day almost at this point answers that. He's not really thinking about that right now. I mean, how many press conferences this week has that question been posed to the President? Again, no, I think he's a builder. He cares about the cost, the cost of gotten out of control. And then separately, you know, we run the President runs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in his first term. People were able to buy a mortgage for 3% these days after Biden's inflation. And what happened with rates now you're looking at 7% mortgages. So this is of great concern to the President, but I view them very differently, as two different things. You can't help be a builder and be the President of the United States and see these cost overruns and not ask a bunch of questions.

[James Fishback]

Is the President trying to pressure Chair.

[Steve Bannon]

Powell to lower interest rates? Is that what this is about?

[Jerome Powell]

I mean, he stood right next to.

[Steve Bannon]

Him and said, I think rates should be lower. At the same moment you guys are there investigating the Fed.

[Jerome Powell]

Is this a pressure campaign? Again, can answer it the same way many different times. The President has a policy view about lower interest rates that, as Bill said, is vitally important to the country economically and for the pocketbook books of the American people. And he is a builder that looks at largesse and just automatically starts to think about how, what he would do in that situation. I think the Fed learned a lot today based on those conversations. We certainly learned a lot and it's going to inform the questions that we're going to continue to ask to get to the bottom of.

[Bill Pulte]

What did you see today that surprised you?

[Jerome Powell]

I think the excitement to which, the degree to which they had to build down into the basement and really essentially jack the entire building up to do some of these things. I mean, remember this was a building that was renovated between 1999 and over a three or four year period. So the notion that it's never seen any kind of renovation since the 1930s, there's more to that story. And so that, and that's still in, they're still at the very beginnings of that renovation. So this is a long way to go. But that's what I was most.

[Bill Pulte]

Concerned.

[Steve Bannon]

On the cost here. And that is exactly what y' all have been talking about, what the President has been talking about. Who is responsible for giving the President accurate information about what the cost is? Because veteran Jay Powell was correcting him on live.

[Bill Pulte]

No, he wasn't. What the President pulled out of his pocket. No, the President pulled out of his pocket a page from the FOIA request of the Fed's own internal documents that is available on their website. It's available. No, what the President is saying is the entire construction project that's going on, which is a build and renovation project over the last number of years is currently at $3.1 billion. And what the Fed Chair was saying was no, no, you have to take one of the buildings out of it. Well, no, it's all one project on the whole complex. I don't know what you're saying. If you go back and look and the President's looked at the forums, they're right there. You can see every single year they put out the foyers for every single year and every single year the numbers have gone up for this project.

[James Fishback]

What number of years the President and.

[Steve Bannon]

All concerned that tension President had is accurate in your, in your assessment.

[Bill Pulte]

I think what the Fed Chair is doing is splitting hairs in that moment to try to drive down the top line costs for what we're talking about.

[Jerome Powell]

Sir, our President and yes, we believe our numbers are accurate.

[James Fishback]

Go ahead.

[Bill Pulte]

They're their numbers again. The President was citing their numbers from their forms that they have published. We did not FOIA it. It's available right now on the Fed's website. Okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

[James Fishback]

Right here.

[Steve Bannon]

You want to see this project sped up and go faster. What are the specific actions you intend to take next?

[James Fishback]

Does that mean you're not going to halt the project?

[Steve Bannon]

And who will have the ultimate decision over the next.

[Bill Pulte]

The President said that, you know, we are where we are. The project has to be done now. It'd be nice if they don't have more cost overruns, but, I mean, Bill's got a long way to go, and at this point, it's just kind of got to get done. This building's got a long way to go. Got a long way to go.

[Steve Bannon]

You're saying that concerns about interest rates and the cost of this renovation are two separate things. But are you concerned about the message it sends to markets to have the President visiting the Fed, something that hasn't happened in 20 years, and publicly saying on television, lower interest rates, that this erodes the independence?

[Bill Pulte]

No, I think. I think the market should like it. You have a president who's engaged, he's a builder, and he also understands interest rates. Remember, building and construction is also very much tied to interest rates. This is a president who understands interest rates better than any president before. He's crushed inflation in his first term. We had 3% mortgages. Now we have 7% mortgages. Costs have doubled. People can't afford mortgages because of the last four years under Biden. And so we need to get these rates down. We can get rates down. And that would have a booming effect on the housing market and the mortgage market. And as for the market reaction, I mean, this is not a new concept. This is a very public discussion. The market continues to go up. The revenue of the country continues to go up. There is a budget surplus last month of $28 billion. Just yesterday or two days ago, the President announced a huge trade deal with Japan. I mean, let's stop speaking in hypotheticals. Let's just look at what's happening. This conversation is being had in public. The market is reacting every day. The market is going up. The job numbers are improving. Every economic indicator is going in the right direction. And if we can just look back to last year, go back to last summer, every Democrat that's now silent was calling for the interest rates to be lowered, Every single one of them. Now they're completely silent now that President Trump is in office. But one year ago, they said the rates are too high, and they were calling for it all the way leading up until the election. The economy is markedly better now than it was then. So our question would be, where are the Democrats on this? Mortgage rates are too high. Credit card interest rates are too high. All loan rates are too high. They felt that way a year ago. Everything is better now. Why don't they feel that way today? It doesn't make any sense. The Democrats own the Democrats own the high rates and they own the mortgage rates and them not coming out.

[James Fishback]

Bill Pulte from the Trump administration. You got James Blair is the political head of the political group inside the White House, the West Wing. He's, he's hammering the media and of course the great Russ vote making a very compelling argument about and by the way I'm a comment when we get back. Powell yo dude, you're the head of the Federal Reserve. You got to have the basic understanding of the math pretty good screw up or misdirection play. If the guys are right and I think as I've checked it, they're right. Short commercial break Back in the warm in a moment. Appreciate their Hey, I realize you got many choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service and there are new ones popping up all the time. But here's the trut there's only one that boldly stands in the gap for every American that believes that freedom is worth fighting for and that's the team at Patriot Mobile. For more than 12 years Patriot Mobile has been on the front lines of fighting for our God given rights and freedoms while also providing exceptional nationwide cell phone service with access to all three of the main networks. Don't just take my word for it, ask the hundreds of thousands of Americans who've made the switch are now supporting causes they believe in. Simply by joining Patriot Mobile, switching is easier than ever. Activate in minutes from the comfort of your own home. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. Patriot Mobile's all US based support team is standing by to take care of you. Call 978-PATRIOT-TODAY or go to patriot mobile.com bannon that's patriot mobile.com bannon use the promo code Bannon for a free month of service. That's patriotmobile.com bannon or call 972 Patriot and make the switch today.

[Bill Pulte]

They are there's a very ambiguous argument. Well we're not really sure with tariffs. Well I don't know how you're not sure with tariffs. The president talks about it every single day. The plan is very transparent and what the president predicted would happen with tariffs is happening. Money is coming into the country. Prices are not going up, inflation is not going to going up. We run it again. We ran a surplus last month. It's just, it's a very arbitrary argument I think in our view that they've been making to keep rates where they are.

[Jerome Powell]

Last question. To build infrastructure more than any other comparable nation in the country in the world. Are you looking into a system wide.

[Steve Bannon]

Problem or is this just a multiple one project?

[Jerome Powell]

Look, we always can, we're very interested in, interested in infrastructure. The president's always been infrastructure president. Those policy processes like NEPA reform are always a part of our deregulatory agenda and priorities. There is something unique about this project and some of the decisions that were made that has caused kind of a different level, heightened level of concern that we're going to keep asking questions about. And you know, I only expect that to continue. But thanks guys. On what? On changing the way that the federal government spends money to build things. We're always working in conjunction with Congress. They just passed one big beautiful bill. All sorts of things that allow us to have cheaper energy, lower, better tax regime. Our view right now with this project is that there are things that can certainly be done better and we still want to get to the bottom of unanswered questions that we have. Thank you guys.

[Bill Pulte]

Thank you.

[James Fishback]

Amazing Bill Pulte, James Blair, the political director of Pulte and of course the Grace Russ vote. The reason we played that in its entirety was to see a confrontational press and what amazing staff they have over there that will not back down. Those three guys right there are just, hey, here are the facts. No brag, just fact. We've got James Fish back, back up for this block. James, you heard the back and forth walk through the, the mathematical argument why you and the president states are correct and Jerome Powell is wrong.

[Steve Bannon]

Sir, the honor to Steve, the mathematical argument is actually one that's not necessarily mathematical in nature. I want to bring up Jerome Powell's own speech from Jackson Hole. That's the annual policy conference. It was entitled Natural Amongst the Stars from August of 2019. This is the, this is the Jerome Powell that President Trump appointed, the one that I respected. And what he said was the natural rate is not a precise mathematical formula. But you judge the natural rate by how the economy is responding to interest rates. So for example, mortgages are higher than normal. If you're seeing larger than normal home activity and origination activity, that would suggest that the interest rate is below that level. But only home sales, the lowest in 30 years, that would suggest that rates are too high versus natural. If you are seeing mortgage originations down 76% in the past four years, that would suggest that interest rates are above the natural level. They're artificially high. And so what we do at Azure is we've built out this econometric model to better understand the economic outcomes. If they are below the baseline, we then say that the natural rate is far lower than the artificial rates that are currently being set by the Federal Reserve. I want to make it very clear. Jerome Powell is the Anthony Foushee of economics. He is wrong, he is smug and he is completely non transparent and unaccountable. That's why my investment firm, Azoria brought this federal case against Jerome Powell this morning in D.C. federal court. And that's why we just learned 30 minutes ago that a judge appointed by, of all people, President Barack Obama has ordered an emergency hearing on our TRO on our temporary restraining order. Steve. That order, if we are successful, will know on Monday afternoon would block Jerome Powell from holding next week's Fed meeting behind closed doors. Americans from all walks of life deserve to know how and why the Fed is choosing to keep interest rates near 20 year highs even though President Trump is delivering the lowest inflation in four years.

[James Fishback]

James, social media, where do people go to find out more about your investment fund and more about this case?

[Steve Bannon]

Yes, invest. Azoria.com is the place to go. Our investment fund, Steve, is an anti D ETF. It buys the same stocks as the S&P 500 funds that we all know and love, except it removes the 38 stocks, Nike, Starbucks, Airbnb, intel that have doubled down on disastrous DEI quotas that our research at Azoria shows drives massive stock underperformance. So the math is simple. When you have a portfolio and you kick out the stocks that underperform, you are poised to outperform. What we are seeing is folks sell their S&P 500 ETF and buy SP X M instead. It is a better way to be long President Trump's golden age stock market without having any exposure to the DEI laggards and losers that hold back our portfolios.

[James Fishback]

James, thank you very much. Great maiden voyage here in the war room. The timing was exquisite. Thank you so much, sir. Look forward to having you back on.

[Steve Bannon]

My pleasure, Steve.

[James Fishback]

God bless James Fishback bringing the heat as only he can. President Trump, historic today, only the third time in the history of the Republic. I think you know why. Mike Lindell, you're loose. I keep hearing reports that you're loose in D.C. before we get. We don't have Lindell. Oh, I had him. Dropped him. That's okay. Next hour. Next hour we're going to have. We've got Todd Blanche is on his way back from the prison down in Tala Nasty where he met I think they actually went over to the U.S. attorney's office. Not sure they met in the prison itself. We're gonna get a we'll do a report on that. Also Tulsi Gabbard understand that they are looking for right now they are looking towards this task force to start putting up a couple of U.S. attorneys. People need to be indicted. People need to be perp walked. People need to be prosecuted. What's happening? We're getting to all that in the next hour. Also we've tracked down Mike Lindell. Mike Lindell is back in Washington, D.C. been hearing great reports all day. Make sure you go check out the end of the Dollar Empire. Birchgold.com Bannon Seven free installments. We're working on the eighth post Rio. Look at the analysis between fiat currency and gold. Right. You also take it your phone and text Bannon B A N n Owen at 989-898 to get the ultimate guide which happens to be free for investing in gold and precious metals in the age of Trump. I've got something up on Getter. Maybe I'll pull that for the next hours. The Chinese Communist Party getting out of bonds, getting out of dollar, getting out of bonds and getting into gold hold kind of record rates, part of their de dollarization movement. Okay. Short commercial break the 6 o' clock hour is going to be on fire. Stick around in the war room. There's a lot of talk about government debt, but after four years of inflation, the real crisis is personal debt. Seriously, you're working harder than ever and you're still drowning in credit card debt and overdue bills. You need done with debt and here's why you need it. The credit system is rigged to keep you trapped. Done With Debt has unique and frankly brilliant escape strategies to help and your debt fast so you keep more of your hard earned money. Done With Debt doesn't try to sell you a loan and they don't try to sell you a bankruptcy. They're tough negotiators that go one on one with your credit card and loan companies with one goal, to drastically reduce your bills and eliminate interest and erase penalties. Most clients end up with more money in their pocket month one and they don't stop until they break you free from debt permanently. Look, take a couple of minutes and visit donewithdeck. Com talk with one of their strategists. It's free, but listen up. Some of their solutions are time sensitive, so you'll need to move quickly. Go to donewithdebt.com that's donewithdebt.com Stop the anxiety, stop the angst. Go to donewithdebT.com and do it today.