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Episode 4771: Next Man Up; Bolosnaro Sentenced To Prison - Bannon`s War Room | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Episode 4771: Next Man Up; Bolosnaro Sentenced To Prison

Bannon`s War Room

Thu Sep 11 2025

Episode 4771: Next Man Up; Bolosnaro Sentenced To Prison ...

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bannon’s War Room, Episode 4771

"Next Man Up; Bolsonaro Sentenced To Prison"

Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Stephen K. Bannon
Guests: Jack Posobiec, Peter Navarro, Paulo Figueroa, Donald Trump (call-in), Julia Vargas Jones

Episode Overview

This emotionally charged episode of Bannon’s War Room centers on a critical series of shocks reverberating through the MAGA movement and international politics:

The assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk
Stephen K. Bannon’s own looming 123-day prison sentence
The sentencing of former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro to prison amid claims of a politicized, sham trial

The hosts and guests dissect the ongoing campaign against MAGA leaders, frame these events as evidence of a broader assault on populist movements, and reflect on both the resilience (“antifragility”) of their cause and the personal legacies of those targeted. International developments are tied back to the struggle at home, particularly with respect to Brazil and the global order.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Assassination of Charlie Kirk and Political Violence

A Somber Reckoning:
The episode opens with grief and anger at the assassination of Charlie Kirk, with comparisons drawn to other political assassinations in American history (JFK, Lincoln, MLK, Robert Kennedy).
Peter Navarro: draws a direct parallel:

"What she's doing is she's trying to get out the visual and the idea of assassinating Donald Trump. This is where this is headed." (02:17)
Line Has Been Crossed:
Jack Posobiec and Steve Bannon repeatedly argue that America has crossed into an era of political violence, warning of further escalations and calling for immediate action and unity within the movement.
Jack Posobiec:

“It feels like a line was crossed yesterday. And are we going to be the country that continues to work out our differences through discussion… or have we now moved to the era of Luigi Maggione?” (49:04)

2. “Next Man Up”: Resilience and Movement Philosophy

Antifragility as Core Strength:
Navarro references Nassim Taleb’s “Antifragile” as a philosophy for MAGA, positioning setbacks, targeting, and even violence as paradoxically energizing the movement.
Navarro:

“You take one out, 100 more appear… It only actually makes us stronger.” (02:32)
“There are unique organizations, movements… that actually get stronger the more pressure and opposition is applied.” (03:50)
Succession and Legacy:
Bannon reflects on his prison sentence and the “Next Man Up” doctrine, underscoring preparation and continuity when leaders are removed. He commends Charlie Kirk’s impact, particularly his “haunting” final appearance filling in for him before Bannon’s incarceration.
Bannon:

“This is a 20 year project to take our country back. A lot of us are not going to be around in a couple of years. President Trump is 78…” (01:17)
“We’re not going to lose if we don’t quit.” (12:30)

3. Charlie Kirk’s Influence and Death

Tributes and Impact:
Both the personal and political impact of Kirk’s work is discussed. Bannon and others credit him with behind-the-scenes support for international causes, particularly support for Bolsonaro and confrontation with Lula’s regime in Brazil. Paulo Figueroa:

“Charlie was not only an American patriot, though he was obviously one with unmatched intensity... he was also one of the fiercest defenders of the American First creed... Without Charlie, Brazil would never have reached the point of securing sanctions against Alexander Moraes and other justices.” (30:52)
Public Reaction
Deep frustration is expressed at reactions from the left, particularly academics and media, with Bannon branding their responses as “unhuman.”
Bannon:

“What other words could you possibly use to describe the action celebrating the actions of what happened to Charlie yesterday?” (50:45)

4. Bolsonaro Sentenced to Prison – Parallels with Trump

Trial Context & Reaction
Julia Vargas Jones reports (23:48) extensively on the verdict against Jair Bolsonaro for allegedly plotting a coup, comparing Brazil’s January 8th to the U.S.’s January 6th. The court’s process is derided as a “kangaroo court” by Bannon and Figueroa.
No Appeal, Political Motivation:
Bolsonaro is described as being subject to political prosecution, drawing a direct parallel to efforts against Trump.
Figueroa:

“They did to President Bolsonaro what they wanted to do with President Trump. So the case against Bolsonaro is almost a copy and paste of the lawfare used against Trump.” (34:02)
“He’s being judged by a panel of just five justices... three are openly conflicted judges... It’s a kangaroo court.” (35:49)
Sanctions, Amnesty, and U.S. Role:
The panel discusses the role of U.S. tariffs and sanctions in response; Figueroa advocates further sanctions against those who convicted Bolsonaro and highlights a push for a Brazilian congressional amnesty bill as Bolsonaro’s only way out.
Figueroa:

“The only way out is that the Brazilian Congress is set to discuss an amnesty bill, which would pardon not only President Bolsonaro, but everyone... since 2019.” (39:17)

5. Broader International and Geopolitical Context

BRICS “Rio Reset” and Threat to U.S. Dollar
Bannon discusses the coming “Rio Reset” at the BRICS summit (15:00), framing moves to de-dollarize global trade as existential threats to U.S. power.
Bannon:

“The Rio reset in July marks a pivotal moment when BRICS objectives move decisively from a theoretical possibility towards an inevitable reality.” (15:00)
Tying Back to Domestic Struggles
The episode repeatedly loops global occurrences back to the MAGA movement’s struggle, asserting that anti-populist targeting is a worldwide phenomenon.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Movement Resilience:

“You take one out, 100 more appear… It only actually makes us stronger.”
– Peter Navarro (02:32)
On Political Violence:

“This is the primal scream of a dying regime.”
– Steve Bannon (06:15)

“It feels like a line was crossed yesterday.”
– Jack Posobiec (49:04)
On Charlie Kirk’s Legacy:

“People don’t understand how much Charlie did… People don’t understand the grand chessboard that Charlie was involved in on a regular basis…”
– Jack Posobiec (37:09)

“Charlie Kirk, as fine a young man as you could ever have. As someone in his twenties… what he accomplished, you have to really go back to the revolutionary generation...”
– Steve Bannon (12:30)
On Bolsonaro’s Trial:

“It’s a kangaroo court… He has no connection with any assassination attempt. This is absolutely preposterous and ridic.”
– Paulo Figueroa (34:02–35:49)

“This is a death sentence for President Bolsonaro.”
– Jack Posobiec (38:24)
On The Persistence of The Movement:

“We’re not going to lose if we don’t quit.”
– Steve Bannon (12:30)

Timestamps for Important Segments

00:00–07:00: Movement under assault; Bannon, Posobiec, Navarro discuss targeting of MAGA leaders and “Next Man Up” philosophy
07:06–15:00: Reflection on Bannon’s prison term, Charlie Kirk’s influence, and organization resilience
15:00–23:48: Discussion on global threats, BRICS, dollar reserve status; breaking news of Bolsonaro’s sentence
23:48–26:14: CNN’s Julia Vargas Jones reports on Bolsonaro’s conviction
26:22–42:56: Roundtable with Paulo Figueroa on Bolsonaro’s trial, connections to U.S. politics, MAGA interventions, and legislative prospects in Brazil
45:06–53:59: Investigations into Kirk’s assassination, possible motives/ideological signals, and reflections on the climate of political violence

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is somber, defiant, and urgent. The hosts and guests see themselves and their movement under existential threat, connecting disparate global developments through the lens of political targeting and deep state machinations. The conversation is steeped in references to history, movement philosophy (“antifragility”), and personal legacy, especially in light of Charlie Kirk’s assassination.

Bottom line:
For those not listening, this episode provides insight into how the War Room’s circle processes crisis, focusing on resilience, legacy, and escalating conflict both domestically and abroad.

Loading summary...

Transcript

Steve Bannon (0:00)

To translate to action. Listen, they think they have this theory that if they take out Trump and they get Tucker Carlson fired and they liquidate Alex Jones and they keep MTG off committees for a first term in Congress, unheard of.

Jack Posobiec (0:14)

If they take away the law, license.

Steve Bannon (0:16)

Rudy Giuliani and bankrupt when the greatest.

Jack Posobiec (0:18)

Men in this country, if they, if they bankrupt the Hoffs over a gateway.

Steve Bannon (0:24)

Pundit and John Eastman, I can go down and down and down and get parents to go into school boards intimidated. If they can go take the little Catholic churches, the Latin mass Catholic churches and intimidate them. If they, they, if, if we just sit there and say oh, woe is me, then we lose. We're winning, we're ascended. This movement's getting bigger every day. Look at why did Joe Biden roll the dice in one of debate President Trump on Thursday, five months before the, before the campaign, simply because he's so far down, he's so far behind because African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans, every people under 29 years old, everybody is coming to Maga, 2/3 of the country to Maga. And they're coming because they understand that this is about taking their country back and stopping this invasion, stopping the forever war, stopping the madness on Capitol Hill. Our movements ascended. They think if they can decapitate that and do it with, you know, 50 negative pieces on Charlie Kirk and turning points terrible. And trust me, Charlie Cruz going to get an IRS investigation. They're already, you know, I'm sure going after Charlie Kirk in every different aspect. If we act like we're intimidated, they're going to win. Here's why I'm so look, would I rather not spend the next four months there? Of course not. But it is what it is. And here's what I know. My team in our audience will step up to the plate. That's why next man up because this is a 20 year project to take our country back. A lot of us are not going to be around in a couple of years. President Trump is 78 years old and had the burden of the world put on him, including being not just a company strip but in a couple of weeks he's going to have be, he's going to be sentenced to prison. Donald Trump, who gave us three and a half, four years of peace and prosperity as president. This is how out of control it is.

Peter Navarro (2:17)

What she's doing is she's trying to get out the visual and the idea of assassinating Donald Trump. This is where this is headed. I hope everyone understands, whether it be Julius Caesar. Yeah, Julius Caesar, Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr. Bobby Kennedy. Assassinations of major political leaders are nothing new. And yet we've kind of been immune to that for a couple of decades. We have been warning about this for months now. The very interesting question is, will they try to kill Joe Biden or Donald Trump? That's the interesting question. Which one right now is a bigger threat to them? And that I'll let the audience kind of ruminate on that question. But we've been warning about this for quite some months. This is why the Next man up philosophy is so important and why we wanted to do the show with you. Steve, as a show of force is that you take one out, 100 more appear, you take one out, a thousand more appear, you take one out,. 10,000 more appear, you take one out, we give more money, you take one out, we register more voters, you take one out is that it only actually makes us stronger. You see, there are three different ways to analyze political movements or to categorize them. There are the. There are the fragile, the durable and the antifragile. This is from Nassim Taleb, which is a phenomenal book. The fragile. The fragile is the Mitt Romney Republican Party, that is the Paul Ryan Republican Party. You say one bad word about them, they collapse, they bend a knee, they surrender and they're relentlessly apologizing and they're spineless. Then there is the durable. The durable is the best of the conservative movement. Prior to Donald Trump, that would be the conservative movement that always held on and they put up a good point fight, had some fortitude, but didn't quite have enough to be able to endure the grind or the slog of the activist regime media. And then there is the antifragile. I include, I encourage everyone to read the book Antifragile. In the book Antifragile, Nassim Taleb argues that there are very. There are unique people, organizations, movements, restaurants, companies that actually get stronger the more pressure and opposition that is applied upon them. And when you find an antifragile movement that their life force is actually what ends up being opposition, that is Donald Trump. Has anyone noticed that Donald Trump looks younger than stronger, more full of life and vitality after the indictments than before the indictments. It gives him purpose, reason of being. It gives him a telos, as the Greekers would say, or a teleological purpose for existence. This movement that we are part of right now that historians will write about for the next 1000 years. Let me say that again. This movement that you are part of will be written about for the next millennia. People do not remember the many movements from four or five hundred years ago. Maybe a little bit here, English Revolution, whatever. This movement will be written about for 1,000 years. And when the history books are written, it will befuddle historians 600, 700, 800 years from now. Why is it that the people that had so much to lose, the Steve Bannon's, the Peter Navarros, the Donald Trump's, they kept on doubling and tripling down because full of fortitude and that resolute spirit, we have the the chance to influence the arc of history. As the left winger Hegelians would always say, the arc of history always bends towards justice. How about this? The arc of history will bend back towards citizen led government. Not subjects, not slaves. And we will use this dark moment as they cart you off tomorrow, Steve, and put you in handcuffs and we say goodbye for 123 days. For 123 days I will work harder than I ever have my entire life. This is repulsive, this is disgusting, it is outrageous and it is a call to action for every citizen watching right now to do more. You are not doing enough. I am not doing enough because one of our on field commanders is getting taken off for 123 days. What are we going to do about it?

Jack Posobiec (7:06)

It's Thursday the 11th of September in the year of our Lord 2025. To show you the in all day we started at the morning show and then with War Room we had Andrew and Tyler on and then of course we tossed to the Charlie Kirk Show, Jack Posobec and Andrew and Tyler and that show was magnificent. You had so many of folks that just can't do much TV now because they're in the government certain areas. You had Darren Beatty and Others come on. It was fantastic. I think Speaker Johnson actually called up one to be on. Raheem was on so all day you've gotten a good flavor. And what we wanted to try to do is make sure that you got a sense of Charlie Kirk besides the public just Persona. You've seen Charlie making speeches or Charlie on TV and doing interviews. But this one was so special because Jack and Charlie, given that they were going to have the 12 o' clock show, were my, I think close to my last guest and not my last guest on the morning of one July in the year of the Lord 2024, when I was about to jump in an SUV with the late great Bernie Kerik and Erik Prince and go to Danbury Prison, which was right up the road from the hotel where we shot the morning show. Look at Charlie's understanding. It's very haunting, right? I'm talking about next man up because hey, when I went to prison I was very specific because, you know, everybody that comes and works at the war room has to watch 12:00 clock high, which is all about next man up and about teams, right. In small organizations. I didn't give any instructions to Dave Brad or Natalie Winters or Peter Navarro wasn't out of prison yet, but to all the other, you know, Mike Davis and everybody else that pitched in and took a four hour show. It's very tough to find host when you're on four hours a day and particularly when you're split two in the morning and two in the afternoon. And the rule of thumb, folks should know in both radio and tv, it's two or three hours of preparation for every one hour you're on air. And Rush Limbaugh, I think, laid out that. And Rush had accumulation of such knowledge. So you can imagine for most people to kind of walk through the questions, the clips, think through the issues, make sure you sound like you know what you're talking about. So that's the preparation. And I was about to go to prison for four months. And this show which was so vital as an organizing, you know, instrument for the grassroots, for the precinct strategy and for Tyler and everything, everybody was doing the grassroots level and they took me out on purpose at that time. You remember that they kind of gun decked the whole thing. First of the whole thing was a joke, but they gun decked the timing and delayed the appeals for months and months and months just so I would be taken out for those, those 123 days, right to the rampant election. Only have a week left over. And I didn't realize we could do a lot from federal prison to help organize. But it was very important to me to know that the organization could go on if I was not there, because they are trying to take us out. Remember, at the head of our movement, they were trying to put in federal prison. And Charlie Kirk came on totally off the top of his head. Just off of that, what I had said and turned to him before. I'm about to punch out for four months and the burden's really going to be on him. And Jack, you know, with the Charlie Kirk show, all of it. And lays out and very hauntingly talks about the assassinations, talks about Next man up, talks about the responsibility of it all, talks about how they're trying to, they were trying to take out Trump and what purposes in particularly Talib's book, Antifragile. Talib had reached out to me after 16. After 16 to talk about the fact that the organization, then the Trump campaign, then the Trump movement, then the rising movement, a MAGA was a anti, was an anti fragile organization. He had this, this guy was Arthur. He, he, he created the concept. The idea was a massive bestseller. And people will tell you in business and finance, they studied this. And he says, you guys, compared to Hillary Clinton and the Bush apparatus and everything Trump had taken on in the primaries, you saw this anti fragility, this resilience that, you know, you can't be beaten. And what do I say on the show all the time, we're not going to lose if we don't quit. Also, is it Nick Freitas or somebody had a great piece they put up on Twitter and I think I reposted it, that said, he finally came to the conclusion that the two sides are. There's no commonality anymore or not enough commonality to kind of bring the country together. And he said he finally came to the conclusion one side's going to win and one side's going to lose. That's absolutely the case. There's no common ground. Look at, look at the mocking they've done of Charlie's horrific death. Charlie Kirk, as fine a young man as you could ever have. A young man that as a young man, as someone in his twenties with no college education, remember, no Ivy League education. In fact, what inspired him was getting rejected by West Point. So with no college education in the modern world, where you have to have not just a college education, you have to go to, if you don't go to an Ivy League school or an Ivy equivalent or public Ivy like University of Michigan or Wisconsin or uva. You know, you can't get ahead in the world. He had put together an organization and he had done as much in his 20s. You have to really go back, you have to go back to the revolutionary generation. You have to go back to Hamilton and Jefferson and Madison and Monroe and all these. You have to go back to what they accomplished. To see the impact of somebody in their 20s and right there with the brilliance just off the top of his head with the clock ticking down for me. And hey, you don't know we might never ever see each other again, right? You don't know some 70 year old guy is heading to federal prison. You don't know what's going to happen. And Charlie right there just as a passion. I remember finishing that and when we toss and the Charlie Kirk show took off at noon. That always followed us on Real America's Voice. I remember getting in the the vehicle with Bernie Kerik, the late and great Bernie Kerik who remember used to do every 911 show with Bernie and Rudy and Erik Prince and you know we talked one had a couple minutes before we went to a little press conference outside and then they, they actually got in the vehicle with me and went up to the actual prison, actually into the prison gates itself where I was actually taken into prison. And I said we don't have to worry, we got this. It's not just the next man up of Natalie Winters and Mike Davis and Dave Bratt and Ben Harnwell and all the great people that pitched in, our great production team. He said Charlie and Jack, they really get it at a very deep level, a very deep and profound level. That individual was assassinated, executed I might say in cold blood in front of the world with his dyed, with his boots on, doing what he loved best, debating the exchange of ideas and convincing people to see the light. Air Force Two has landed. They're not really showing video of it, but Air Force Two has landed to take Charlie's remains to Phoenix. And Kash Patel, the head of the FBI. FBI is en route out here to where we are, Utah. All next in the war room.

Jack Posobiec (20:20)

Okay, that was a gaggle at the White House a little while ago. The president is on Air Force One heading to New York City. He will attend a Yankees game tonight in the owner's box. President Trump, a longtime Yankees fan and very close to George Steinbrenner, the father of the current ownership team, Air Force two has arrived in Salt Lake City, Utah. We're actually here in Utah across from the state capitol. Tomorrow we're actually going to Tomorrow we're actually going to try to do the show in a more remote location, maybe even closer to the activity what happened the other day. All that's in flux also influx is all the arrangements for Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's remains are being taken by Air Force Two I think shortly and taken to Phoenix. His wife Erica and the team and Tyler and Andrew and the team that were on the show this morning and then were with Charlie were with Jack Posobic at noon doing the Charlie Kirk Show. Cash Patel, it's being reported the Independent London has it that Cash Patel, the director of the FBI just heard the president there, right there saying they think we made real progress. Cash Patel, the head of the FBI I think is currently en route to Utah also as the search for the assassin and potentially accomplices. And there's a lot of rumors flying around, a lot going on, although I just saw something I think looks legit. Steve Crowder and his team this morning did break scoops that they said they had I think from unnamed he didn't say ATF but unnamed federal officials that appeared to coincide with what the Wall Street Journal reported about the bullets, some of the bullets having a transgender ideology written on it. And I think antifa and supposedly he's gotten subpoenaed already he and his team about where they got the information. Anyway, we'll try to break all that down. Posto is going to join us. He give him some other interviews right now. I think Poso is also going to be on Laura Ingram tonight. So Jack Posobic doing the duty, the media duty in the tragedy. Think about the tragedy of 911 which we're commemorating and we're going to try to do more of that in the next couple hours because we didn't have enough time actually to cover it normally we do entire show on 9 11. Given the horrific tragedy of Charlie Kirk, another tragedy today that you know, you're just going to have to embrace because this is a global revolution and what this is a global movement and President Trump's inspired it all over the planet. In Brazil, I would argue one of our strongest partners and some of the best people in the world, the Bolsonaro family and their, their associates around them, horrible news out of Bol. Out of. Out of Brazil of which we warned you it was coming. Bolsonaro with that kangaroo court was found guilty today. So let's go ahead. We got A clip. And then we've got Paulo Fragado is going to join us.

Julia Vargas Jones (23:48)

News out of Brazil. The country's Supreme Court has just voted to convict former President Yair Bolsonaro of planning to OOVERTURN the country's 2022 election. CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is live in Los Angeles with some more on this. Julia, what can you tell us? Brianna, just moments ago, we heard that decision, the charges that he was found guilty of a coup d', etat, taking part in an armed criminal organization attempting to abolish Brazil's democratic order by force, damaging protective property. That was all during Brazil's very own January 6th. And all of the moments and the planning that led up to that moment on January 8, 2023, prosecutors accusing Bolsonaro not just of organizing, being the head of a criminal organization, but also attempting, planning to assassinate the now sitting president, then President elect of Brazil, Luiza Nasu, Lula da Silva, his vice president, as well as one of the Supreme Court justices, the very justice that this week led the trial against him and seven other of his close allies. Brianna this trial has been the focus of a diplomatic spat between Brazil and the United States. It has cost Brazil 50% tariffs on all goods imported to the United States. The big question was what we're looking at now is what other retaliation could come from the United States in coming days as this verdict has now been not quite reached. But as the Supreme Court has come to a majority to condemn President, former President Jerry Bolsonaro, he could face 40 years in prison. Now, it could take still some weeks until he is taken. He is already under house arrest and barred from running for office until 2030 on separate matters. That has to do with questioning the validity of the elections prior to the 2022 election. All of this coming to a head today. Brianna, as we heard from a justice as she cast the final vote, I just want to tell you from Justice Carmen Lucia, she said Brazil is only worth it because we can protect democracy. And that's what the justices said they were doing today. It is quite a controversial trial, I have to say. President Jeremy Bolsonaro still has a lot of support from a big portion of the population in Brazil. And this has caused so much division. We'll see what comes in the days ahead.

Paulo Figueroa (34:02)

Well, they did to President Bolsonaro what they wanted to do with President Trump. So the case against Bolsonaro is almost a copy and paste of the law firm used against Trump. January 6th was framed as an insurrection in the United States. Brazil had also a revolt on January 8, two years later. And it was instead of insurrection, they called an attempted coup. And that's why they're convicting Bolsonaro. And in Bolsonaro case, the Chargers are even weaker because he had already left office 10 days earlier and publicly condemned the protests as they happen. And he was actually here in Florida in vacation. So there's absolutely no evidence connecting him to the events of January 8th or to that crazy idea that was listening on your show, the clip on cnn. And the only time I watched cnn, it's on your show. They actually probably had more viewers now on your show that they had on their actual show. But that's absolutely a lie. He has no connection with any assassination attempt. This is absolutely preposterous and ridic. And he's being judged by a panel of just five justices. The rapporteur is Alexander Morais. The guy that looks like a James Bond villain that we all know, sanctioned under the Global Magnitsky act by Donald Trump, is a declared enemy of Bolsonaro. That's the rapporteur of the case. Then you have Justice Zanin, which is Lula's, believe it or not, that's true. You cannot make this up. Is Lula's personal lawyer that was appointed to the Supreme Court. And then you have another Justice Dino on the panel of five justices. Justice Dino was Lula's minister of justice. And he actually has a criminal case of slandering against President Bolsonaro. And he's nevertheless. He's voting to convict Bolsonaro. So with three openly conflicted judges, out of the four judges, out of the four votes that he got for conviction, one voted not guilty, but four that voted for his conviction, three are openly conflicted judges. So it's possible. There's. There's no actual. It's a kangaroo court, like you said.

Paulo Figueroa (40:09)

No, we don't think that's going to happen. We think you're right about discussions happening about this, but there's no deal. We are very confident that we can pass the bill in the House and the Senate if we get the support that we have been getting from the Trump administration, putting sanctions on not only Moraes, but also his family, who runs all his financial assets, and also on the other justice that convicted Bolsonaro today, they're in conflict with the Global Magnitsky act because they're in material support of a sanctioned individual. So they have more than enough basis to sanction them sometimes. Obviously, although Secretary Basin has been great with this, the Treasury Department doesn't work fast enough for the speed. We need things happening in Brazil, but that's the way to go. The United States in the Venezuela case or in even the Panama case, they sanctioned hundreds of individuals and Brazil so far only had Murae sanction. So the way to go, if you ask me, is not more tariffs. Tariffs did what they were supposed to do in Brazil, but they need more sanctions on other individuals and they need to make sure the sanctions are enforced. Because right now we have a big problem in Brazil that the sanctions rise. But the US Companies, the US Persons are not enforcing the sanctions. So we have Maraeus using, having his bank accounts is still working, having US Companies still doing business with him. He still has his iPhone, he still has his Google account, his Gmail, his WhatsApp, which is meta. He still has his iCloud account. All this need to be shut down by the Global Magnitsky Act. And if the United States does not enforce sanctions against the violators, the sanctions lose their strength. So it's, I think it's a concern not only regarding Brazil, but a global concern. So that's what we have been asking Trump administration to do. Although I have to say we're very thankful. They have been doing more than we could ever imagine. Thanks to these people that you mentioned and some other nice folks in the administration and obviously President Trump.