Episode 4788: If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies

Summary

War Room Episode 4788: "If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies"

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Steve Bannon
Notable Guests: Eliezer Yudkowski, Nate Soares, Peter Navarro, Joe Allen, Shermaine Nugent
Main Theme: The existential risks posed by advanced artificial intelligence, the need for global regulation, and reflections on the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

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Overview

This episode is a special installment of War Room, following the shocking events surrounding the assassination of Charlie Kirk and responding to the urgent conversation about artificial intelligence risk. Steve Bannon brings on AI experts Eliezer Yudkowski and Nate Soares, co-authors of the book If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies, to discuss the dangers of unchecked AI development and the imperative for international regulation. The show features tributes to Charlie Kirk, and comments from leaders in the conservative movement on both the AI topic and Kirk's legacy.

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Key Segments & Discussions

1. Emotional Testimony: The Final Moments of Charlie Kirk

[00:19 – 05:31]

• Erica (witness): Describes the chaotic and heartbreaking effort to get Charlie Kirk to the hospital after he was shot.

  • Notable Quote:

    “Charlie wasn't there. His eyes were fixed. He wasn't looking at me. He was looking past me, right into eternity. He was with Jesus already. He was killed instantly and felt absolutely no pain.” (Erica, 04:22)

• The segment underscores both the trauma of the event and the devotion of Kirk’s team and family, setting a somber tone for the episode.

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2. U.S. Response: Domestic Terrorism and New Policy

[05:31 – 07:18]

• Bannon: Announces that the President will designate Antifa and affiliated organizations as terrorist entities in response to Kirk's killing, shifting the investigation from a local murder to a case of national significance.

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3. The Existential Threat of Artificial Intelligence

[07:18 – 24:14]

The Case for an International AI Treaty

[07:21 – 08:19]

• Bannon: Asks Yudkowski about his previously stated willingness to take radical action to halt runaway AI development.

• Eliezer Yudkowski:

  • Clarifies he never advocated unilateral violence, but believes only an international treaty backed up by the credible threat of force—against even non-signatory nations—can prevent a potential AI apocalypse.
  • Notable Quote:

    "This is an international treaty situation... This is something that endangers people on the other side of the planet." (Yudkowski, 07:57)

The Unique Nature of AI Risk

[08:19 – 11:55]

• Yudkowski & Soares:

  • AI is “grown, not crafted” – unlike traditional software, AIs are trained with massive data, resulting in unpredictable behavior and goals not intended by their creators.
  • Even now, AIs are “cheating” in ways not explicitly programmed, foreshadowing future dangers.
  • Notable Quote:

    "There’s no line in the code that a programmer can go in and fix and say, 'whoops, we did that wrong.'" (Soares, 10:46)

• Soares:

  • As AIs continue to improve, humanity will lose control; superintelligent AI could invent new technologies and infrastructure, ending humanity “as a side effect,” not out of malice.
  • Notable Quote:

    "If we keep making AI smarter and smarter... the default outcome is just these AIs get to the point where they can invent their own technology, to the point where they can build their own infrastructure, and then we die. As a side effect." (Soares, 12:28)

Why Are Warnings Ignored?

[13:04 – 14:49]

• Soares:
  • Mainstream coverage and political discussion focus only on AI’s benefits; warnings are dismissed as overly alarmist despite rising public concern.

Luddites or Realists?

[18:54 – 20:48]

• Bannon: Challenges the guests on whether their stance makes them “proto-Luddites.”

• Soares:

  • Rejects the label, supports many other technologies (e.g., nuclear, supersonic jets), but sees AI as fundamentally different due to existential risk.
  • Notable Quote:

    "It’s different when a technology risks the lives of everybody on the planet... a superintelligence, it kills everybody. Then you’ll have no jobs... It’s not that humanity cannot progress technologically, it’s that we shouldn’t race over a cliff edge in the name of technology." (Soares, 18:54)

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4. Global Competitiveness & China: Can We Slow Down?

[20:49 – 24:14]

• Bannon: Raises the geopolitical argument that halting U.S. AI development simply cedes the advantage to regimes like the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

• Yudkowski:

  • Argues for an international, not unilateral, approach; draws historical analogy to nuclear arms control during the Cold War.
  • Notable Quote:

    "This is not a new situation... We've had countries that hated each other work together to prevent global thermonuclear war... That’s what we need to reproduce today." (Yudkowski, 21:51)

Explaining the Book Title

[23:13 – 24:14]

• Bannon: Asks about the dire title “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies.”

• Soares:

  • Explains any country building superintelligent AI with current tech dooms everyone; “it’s not about control—no one controls it, it controls the planet.”
  • Notable Quote:

    “If humanity builds smarter than human AI... every human being will die. It doesn’t matter if you’re in a bunker. Superintelligence can transform the world more than that.” (Soares, 23:24–23:54)

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5. The Silicon Valley Mentality: Why Build Even if It Kills Us?

[24:51 – 29:05]

• Joe Allen: Asks how tech elites justify proceeding despite existential danger.

• Soares:

  • Some founders admit they’d rather be participants in history’s gambles than bystanders.
  • Notable Quote:

    “The people who started these companies... are able to convince themselves it would be okay to gamble with the whole civilization.” (Soares, 26:50)

• Yudkowski:

  • Contrasts tech workers like Geoffrey Hinton who left over the danger, with those motivated by optimism or self-delusion.
  • Notable Quote:

    "That's just the kind of people we're dealing with here." (Yudkowski, 28:07)

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6. Decelerationism & Technology

[31:38 – 32:59]

• Bannon: Asks both if they’re “decelerationists.”

• Soares:

  • Yes, for AI or any existentially dangerous tech.
  • Quote:

    "Any technology that kills everybody and leaves no survivors, you can’t rush ahead on that." (Soares, 31:59)

• Yudkowski:

  • Not across the board; only for techs with global, irreversible risks.

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7. Charlie Kirk’s Legacy and Reflections on Loss

[34:22 – 44:41]

• Shermaine Nugent, Peter Navarro: Offer heartfelt reflections on Kirk’s work, especially his mobilization of young conservatives.

  • Notable Quote:

    "He will go down in history as the greatest political organizer [of the last 50 years]. And I don’t think anybody’s ever going to do again what he did, because... it’s very difficult to persuade people over to your side and then mobilize." (Navarro, 38:51)

• Discussions of the emotional impact, the tasks for the movement following Kirk's loss, and the ongoing need for activism.

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8. Closing Segments: Books and Calls to Action

• Book Recommendations:

  • If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies (Yudkowski & Soares).
  • I Went to Prison So You Won’t Have To (Peter Navarro).

• Social Media Plugs:

  • Eliezer Yudkowski: @ESYudkowski
  • Nate Soares: @So8res
  • Joe Allen: JoeBot.xyz

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Yudkowski:

  “This is not the kind of product which just kills the voluntary customers or even people standing next to the voluntary customers. This is something that endangers people on the other side of the planet.” (07:57)

• Soares:

  "We keep making them smarter and they have goals we didn't want. That's going to end really quite poorly." (11:46)

• Soares:

  “With AI, we are dealing with much, much higher dangers than that. We're dealing with a technology that just kills you.” (19:38)

• Bannon:

  “The forces of capital, the forces of politics, human avarice and greed, and also the need for power... But I tell people this is the hardest one I've ever seen...” (24:14)

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Summary Table of Key Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | Speakers | |------------------------------------------------------|--------------|-----------------------| | Erica's testimony & Kirk's last moments | 00:19–05:31 | Erica, Bannon | | Announcement: Terrorism, Policy Shift | 05:31–07:18 | Bannon | | AI Treaty, Nature of AI Risk | 07:18–14:49 | Yudkowski, Soares | | Reception of AI warnings, "Luddite" debate | 13:47–20:48 | Bannon, Soares | | China, Global coordination | 20:49–24:14 | Bannon, Yudkowski | | Tech culture, Why press ahead | 24:51–29:05 | Allen, Soares, Yudkowski| | Deceleration debate | 31:38–32:59 | Bannon, Soares, Yudkowski| | Charlie Kirk’s legacy | 34:22–44:41 | Nugent, Navarro, Bannon|

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is somber and urgent. Bannon and guests treat both the sudden violence against Charlie Kirk and the rapidly evolving risk of superintelligent AI as moments of existential crisis for the movement and for civilization itself. The experts underscore that while many technologies involve tradeoffs, only a few—AI and possibly viral gain-of-function—pose risks that demand absolute global control, not just regulation or caution.

Listeners are left with both a warning about accelerating into unknown technological territory and a call to action: unite, seek regulation at the highest international level, and honor the legacies of leaders like Charlie Kirk by continuing to fight for the cause.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Steve Bannon]

Time before we get our new guest up or can we play the Charlie Kirk doctor? I want to. Okay, I want to play. This was very moving. It came out last night. It was going to be the end of our cold open, but as you saw, we cut to the. We cut in the cold open. So let's go ahead and play this. I want everybody to hear this. Let's go ahead and play it now.

[Erica (mentioned by B)]

Here's what Erica wants me to relate on Sunday. This is going to be the hard part, but maybe also the comforting part. Charlie Kirk was literally like a son to me. I have three sons. He was like my fourth son. My three sons are a little bit older than Charlie. He was like my fourth son. So when he was hit, if your son got hit, what would you do?

[Joe Allen]

What would you do?

[Erica (mentioned by B)]

I got in the car because if there was any way I could save him, I had to do something. Not. I couldn't just take them. You guys got it. So they got him into the side of the car. It was an suv. It was the SUV we took over. And I'm on one side and there's actually some video of this. Somebody's taking video of this. I'm on one side of the car, the right side. And they're getting Charlie in. So I run over the other side. But the, the guy was draggin him in. They stop blocking that entrance. So at that point I run around to the back. I pop the top, the back gate open and I jump in the back. The car lurches forward. Apparently somebody jumped in the car. So the car lurches forward. So I almost fall out of the car, the suv. Then I grab the thing and, and close it. And there's five of us in the car now. Justin's driving. Dan is up front with the, with the gps. Rick has got him. Rick's on my left and Brian is there and I'm coming over the back seat and Charlie's laid out in front just right in front of me and Charlie. So tall. We can't, we can't close the door. We drove four miles some. I don't know, it's four something miles all the way to the hospital with the door open. To this day, I don't know how Brian stayed in the car because we're just go, go, go, go, go where? You know, we're trying to do. We're trying to stop the bleeding. You saw it. And I'm yelling, come on, Charlie, come on, come on. Meanwhile, my phone is still on. My son and daughter in law are hearing this whole thing. And his security team again. Justin, Dan, Brian, and Rick. They love Charlie, but they're much cooler than I. I mean, they're just carrying out their car calmly, but they're swiftly doing exactly what they were trained to do. Rick starts praying out loud. I'm praying out loud. We're yelling, come on, let's go. Let's go, let's go. My son's hearing all this, and we're. We're doing the best we can to navigate traffic. It's not a highway. We're on surface streets, and suddenly there's an ambulance coming toward us. And there was conversation in the car. Should we stop? We're like, no, no, just keep going. Just keep going. The doctor later said that was the right thing to do. Ambulance goes by us. We're still heading to the hospital, trying to get there. At one point, somebody says, let's get there in one piece. Because we're just. We're cutting through intersections. You know, we're just beeping the horn. This is not a emergency vehicle. There's no. There's no lights. There's none of this. And I go, we got to start cpr. So I try and start that now. Charlie wasn't there. His eyes were fixed. He wasn't looking at me. He was looking past me, right into eternity. He was with Jesus already. He was killed instantly and felt absolutely no pain. That's what I was told later, but of course, we had to try. And by the way, there was just nothing, nothing any of us could do about it. We were giving him cpr, but nothing was happening. It wasn't like if we had better first aid or we had better medical facilities or we were faster to the hospital, we could have saved him. We couldn't. So if that's any comfort at all, Charlie didn't suffer. He was gone. He was with Jesus, absent from the body, present with the Lord. That's where he was. Now, it is true. When we got to the hospital and they started working on him right away, they did get a pulse back. And so Rick and I were just. Everyone's praying. We're just praying for a miracle. We had a. We had a small sliver of hope. And the doctor later said that we got a pulse because Charlie was a very healthy man, but the shot was catastrophic. So 20 or 30 minutes later, the surgeon came out and said he was dead.

[Steve Bannon]

Thursday, 18th September, year of our Lord 2025. We had a break for the press conference at checkers, and Dr. Peter Navarro had to take a Meeting over in the West Wing. He's going to rejoin us approximately 11:30 to go through that. Charlie Kirk, this is why huge announcement overnight. President of the United States going to designate antifa and affiliate organizations a major terrorist organization. And this will now expand from what the authorities out in Utah were doing, which is a murder, just a typical murder case, to something that's going to really get to the bottom of it. And I think you see and you know my opinion on this ridiculous settlement set of text messages they're trying to foist on us, which is absurd to do. We'll break that more down this afternoon. Alex Brucewicz is going to join us. I think he's over at Turning Point right now. Who joins us this afternoon. I want to bring on because of the what happened at this press conference about the There was this massive deal before the press conference earlier today. Some of the audience might not have caught it but there was a huge announcement of this transaction for nuclear power and you know, $400 billion and all of this technology we're going to provide and it's all down to about artificial intelligence. I want to bring on the authors of a book that I think is a must read for every person in this nation. If anyone builds it, everyone dies. It's about artificial intelligence and two of the individuals that have been there from the beginning and know both the benefits and huge upside of artificial intelligence but also the potential downside and is there enough risk mitigation? Eliza Yudkowski and Nate Soares. Yud and Nate, thank you for joining us here in the war room. I appreciate it.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

First question, Yud, I think, I think it was you.

[Steve Bannon]

Weren't you the guy just like a year or so ago and Joe Allen. I was going through some stuff with Joe Allen. Weren't you the guy that said hey if this thing gets so out of control I will be the first to go bomb the data centers? Was that you?

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

No, I was saying that we needed an international treaty and it was being plain that the international treaty needed to be willing to be backed up by force, including on non signatory nations. This wasn't about individuals trying to stop a data center. I don't think that's going to be all that effective. You take out one, there's others, you ban it in your own country, moves to others. This is an international treaty situation. It's not the kind of product which just kills the voluntary customers or even people standing next to the voluntary customers. This is something that endangers people on the other side of the planet. So I'm trying to be plain. This is the sort of treaty that needs to be backed up by force if it has to be.

[Steve Bannon]

So yeah, that is a, it's kind of a brilliant concept. Right. And you're saying that even non signatories would have to take out. What is it? Make your case. What is it about this technology that potentially could be so dangerous to humanity? Because all we hear, all we get, we get glazed. Every day we get glazed at how this is so wonderful and this is so tremendous. And you got, you've got Larry Fink, you got Steve Schwarzman, you have the head of Apple, they're all over there cheering this on because of artificial intelligence. You know, Oracle's now on fire because of artificial intelligence. All we hear is the upside. Why are you, somebody knows this and have been there since the beginning so concerned about it. You think there has to be a treaty that potentially nations of the world would have to take it upon themselves or in unison to go take out the data centers?

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

Sir, there's a limit to how far you can push this technology, how much benefit you can get out of it before it stops being a tool. We're already starting to verge on that. We're already starting to see the artificial intelligences that are being built today doing minor amounts of damage, that their builders, the people who don't, you know, they don't craft them, they don't like put them together bit by bit, they grow them. It's like a farmer raising an AI. And at some point it stops being a tool. At some point it gets smarter than you able to invent new technologies we don't have. And at that point I think that the current minor incidents of loss of control are going to turn into catastrophic end of the world type incidents. It's not a new idea really. I think it's actually going to happen that way.

[Steve Bannon]

Explain to me, I want to make sure the audience understands this. You guys say AI is grown, not crafted. It's not like things we've known before. Nate, maybe one of you guys take that on. Just explain to our audience why this is fundamentally different than computer programs and neural networks and other things that have been, have been crafted in the past.

[Nate Soares]

Yeah. So when an AI cheats on a programming problem, which we're starting to see a little bit of that these days, this is a case where the AI has in some sense it's been trained to succeed at certain types of tasks.

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

And.

[Nate Soares]

Does it in ways. What am I trying to say? Sorry, there's no line in the code that is make this AI cheat on the programming problems. When AIs do things nobody wants, nobody asks for, there's no line in the code that a programmer can go in and fix and say, whoops, we did that wrong. These AIs we gather a huge amount of computing power and we gather a huge amount of data and we shape the computing power to be better at predicting the data. Humans understand the process that does the shaping. Humans don't understand what comes out of the shaping process. These things are. And the result, the result that comes out of the shaping process. It does all sorts of things that we weren't asking for these days. We've seen them threaten reporters, we've seen them cheat on programming problems. These are small now, they're cute now. But there are indications that we are starting to get AIs that have something a little bit like drives, something a little bit like goals that we didn't intend and didn't ask for. We keep making them smarter and they have goals we didn't want. That's going to end really quite poorly.

[Steve Bannon]

Right now. The drive, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Four Horsemen or Five Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the companies driving this, all of them are committed to artificial general intelligence. And correct me if I'm wrong, I believe your guys thesis is that artificial, since we don't really understand artificial intelligence that well, hurtling towards superintelligence or AGI will be uncontrollable and lead to a catastrophe and potentially the end of humankind. Is basically that your central argument?

[Nate Soares]

That's right. It's not that the AI will hate us. It's not that it'll have malice. It's that we're just growing these things. There is no established science for how to make smarter than human machines that aren't dangerous. If we keep pushing on making AI smarter and smarter while not having any ability to direct them to do good things, the default outcome is just these AIs get to the point where they can invent their own technology, to the point where they can build their own infrastructure, and then we die. As a side effect.

[Steve Bannon]

How are you guys being received? I hear these voices now. We're trying to get many of them organized and get a bigger platform. But if you look at the business press, if you look at just the general news, if you look at what's coming out of Washington, it's all this super cheerleading. You just saw it today at Checkers. I mean, I don't know if you saw the earlier announcement about the about the nuclear power plants, but it was all about AI, AI, AI. And Starmer just sitting there with his pom poms out. We got a couple of minutes in this segment. I'd like to hold you through it. Why is it people like you guys who are very involved and know this and have been there since the beginning, why are these voices not getting a bigger platform right now?

[Nate Soares]

So I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between chatbots that we have today and where the technology is going. The explicitly stated goal of these companies, as you said, is to create smarter than human AI to create AI that can outperform humans at any mental task. Chatbots are not what they set out to make. They are a stepping stone. Five years ago, the computers could not hold on a conversation. Today, they can. I think a lot of people in Washington think that that's all AI can do and all it will be able to do. Just because, you know, they haven't seen what's coming down the line. And it can be hard to anticipate what's coming down the line. I am hopeful that as people notice that we're keeping making these machines smarter, as they notice what these companies are racing towards, I'm hopeful that they'll realize we need to stop rushing towards this cliff edge.

[Steve Bannon]

Do you think we got about 60 seconds here, Nate? Do you think that that's being presented on Capitol Hill or anywhere in the media. Media right now, that. That what you're saying needs to be done is being done?

[Nate Soares]

Not very well, but I'm very glad we're having this conversation. And I'm hoping that the book makes a big splash because a lot of people, you know, a lot more people are worried about these dangers than you might think. And we've. We've spoken to some people who say they're worried and say they can't talk about it because they would sound a little too crazy. And then we see polls saying that lots of the population is worried. So I think this is a message that has its moment to break out, and I'm hoping the world wakes up to this danger.

[Steve Bannon]

Guys, can you hang on for one second? We'll just take a short commercial break. Nate and Yud are with us. Their book, if anyone builds it, everyone dies. It is an absolute must read. You have two people that are experts and would have benefited economically, as some of these folks are. There is something to unite this country, and you can unite this country around questions about the oligarchs and big tech and exactly what's going down here? Who benefits from it? Who's driving it? And does it have enough regulation? It does have enough control. Is it putting the country's interest in human interest before corporate interest in the making of money? Short commercial break Back with Nate and you it in a moment. I got American babe.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

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[Erica (mentioned by B)]

Family, are you on Getter yet? No.

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

What are you waiting for?

[Nate Soares]

It's free, it's uncensored and it's where.

[Shermaine Nugent]

All the biggest voices in conservative media are speaking.

[Steve Bannon]

Download the Getter app right now. It's totally free. It's where I put up exclusively all of my content 24 hours a day. Want to know what Steve Bannon's thinking? Go to Getter.

[Peter Navarro]

That's right.

[Erica (mentioned by B)]

You can follow all of your favorites.

[Peter Navarro]

Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobic and so many more.

[Nate Soares]

Download the Getter app now.

[Shermaine Nugent]

Sign up for free and be part of the movement.

[Steve Bannon]

So guys, Yud and Nate, join us. The book, if anyone builds it, everyone dies. It is a warning and a deeply thought through warning to humanity and to the citizens of this republic. Guys, we've been accused a lot on the war of being Luddites that we just don't like technology, we don't like the oligarchs we don't like the tech Bros. We're populous nationalists. We just don't like them, right? And so we want to stop them. But I keep telling people, I say, hey, in this regard, all I'm doing is putting out the information of some of the smartest guys that were there at the beginning of the building of artificial intelligence. Now confess folks, make the argument against you guys that you just have become proto Luddites because of your journey.

[Nate Soares]

You know, there are many technologies that I am quite bullish on. I personally think America should be building more nuclear power. I personally think we should be building supersonic jets. It's different when a technology risks the lives of everybody on the planet. And this is not a very controversial point these days. You have the Nobel laureate prize winning founder of the field saying he thinks this is very dangerous. You have people inside these labs saying, yes, it's very dangerous, but we're going to rush ahead anyway. Even at the risk of the entire world. This is a crazy situation. If a bridge was going to collapse with very high probability, we wouldn't say, well, we need to leave it up for the sake of technology. You know, when NASA launches rockets into space, it accepts a 1 in 270 risk of that rocket blowing up. And those are volunteer astronauts on the crew. That's the sort of risk they're willing to accept. With AI, we are dealing with much, much higher dangers than that. We're dealing with a technology that just kills you. We're trying to build smarter than human machines that are with having while having no idea how to point them in a good direction. To imagine that this is Luddites, we're not saying, oh, this is going to have some bad effect on the everyday worker in losing a job. AIs may have those effects, but the chatbots may have those effects. But a super intelligence, it kills everybody. Then you'll have no jobs. You'll also have full employment, but that's just the default course this technology takes. It's not that humanity cannot progress technologically, it's that we shouldn't race over a cliff edge in the name of technology. We need to find some saner way forward towards the higher tech future.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

Okay?

[Steve Bannon]

So yeah, to Nate's point, you know, we had this thing in England today where they're full on all nuclear powers because we needed, you know, all the climate change guys forget that we need this because we've got to have artificial intelligence. You have this concept of a treaty, like maybe the Geneva treaty after the wars to have nations of the world. Be prepared to take action here. However, all you hear, we're the leader of the anti CCP movement in this country, have been for years. I'm sanctioned fully by the Chinese Communist Party and can't have any association with a Chinese company or our people because we represent Lao Baijang, the little guy in China. What they're holding up to us is that if we follow Yud and Nate and what they want to do in the war room, that the ccp, particularly after deep sea, what they call the Sputnik moment, that the Chinese Communist Party is going to build this technology and then we're going to have the most evil dictatorship in the world, have control of the most evil technology ever created, and we're going to be at their beck and call. Your response, sir?

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

We have not advocated that the United States, or the United Kingdom for that matter, try to unilaterally relinquish artificial intelligence. Our position is that you need an international treaty. You need verification. The Chinese government has at least overtly seemed on some occasions to present a posture of being willing to acknowledge that AI is a worldwide matter and that there might be cause for coordination among nations to prevent the earth itself from being wiped out. And this is not a new situation in politics. We have had countries that hated each other work together to prevent global thermonuclear war, which is not in the interest of any country. You look back at history in the 1950s, a lot of people thought humanity wasn't going to make it, or at least civilization wasn't going to make it. We were going to have a nuclear war. And that wasn't them enjoying being pessimistic. There was this immense historical momentum. They'd seen World War I, World War II. They thought that what was going to happen is that every country is going to build its own nuclear fleet and eventually there'd be a spark and the world would go up in flames. And that didn't happen. And the reason it didn't happen is because of some pretty serious efforts put forth by countries that in many cases hated each other's guts to at least work together and not all dying in a fire. And that's what we need to reproduce today.

[Steve Bannon]

Nate, before I let you guys bounce, can you explain the title of the book? It's pretty grabbing, but it's scary. If anyone builds it, everyone dies. What do you guys mean by that?

[Nate Soares]

I mean, what we mean is that if humanity builds smarter than human AI using anything remotely like the current technology and anything remotely like the current Lack of understanding, then every human being will die. It doesn't matter if you're in a bunker. Superintelligence can transform the world more than that. And this title also goes back to the point about China. It's not that great dictators would be able to control this great power if they made it. If you make a superintelligence, you don't have that superintelligence. You've just created an entity that has the planet. Artificial intelligence would be able to radically transform the world. And if we don't know how to make it do good things, we shouldn't do it at all. And we are nowhere near close being able to point superintelligence in a good direction. So humanity needs to back off from this challenge.

[Steve Bannon]

Joe Allen, any comments? All I can say is the forces of capital, the forces of politics, human avarice and greed, and also the need for power makes this. You know, we fight Big Pharma. The fights we have every day are massive against long odds, and we've won more than we've lost. But I tell people this is the hardest one I've ever seen because of what's happened. And I said at that time at Davos, or when we had the thing at Davos when ChatGPT came out. So you wait till venture capital and Wall street gets involved. Any thoughts, Joe Allen?

[Joe Allen]

You know, Steve, it would be a very different thing if Eliezer Yudkowski and Nate Suarez were making these accusations, or at the very least issuing these warnings in a vacuum. If the tech companies, for instance, were just simply saying, we're building tools, these guys are accusing us of building gods, they're crazy. It'd be a very different situation. But that's not the situation. Every one of them, even the most moderate, like Demis Hasabis, but certainly Sam Altman, Elon Musk, even Dario Amadei, they all are talking about the creation of Artificial General and Artificial Superintelligence. And so when we first started covering, when you first brought me on four and a half years ago, we hit a lot of the points that Yudkowski was making. We would show videos and try to explain to the audience, and they by and large didn't really grasp the reality of it because it wasn't as much of a reality four and a half years ago. In just that short amount of time, we've seen the creation of systems that can competently produce computer code. We saw at the very beginning, GPT was not supposed to be online very quickly. That ended basically all the warnings that Yudkowski gave early on when AI was hitting the headlines. Those are coming to pass. My question for Yudkowski would be this and for Suarez. You live in and among the most techno saturated culture in the country, San Francisco. Can you give us some insight into the mentality of the people who are willing to barrel ahead no matter what and create these systems even if that means the end of the human race?

[Nate Soares]

So some of them have just come out and said, you know, I had a choice between being a bystander and being a participant, and I preferred being a participant. That is in some sense enough to explain why these people are barreling ahead. Although I think in real life there's a bunch of other explanations too. Like the people who started these companies back in 2015 are the sort of people who are able to convince themselves it would be okay to gamble with the whole civilization like this. You know, we've seen comments like, back in 2015, I believe Sam Altman said something like, AI might kill us all, but there'll be good companies along the way. Or I think he maybe even said, artificial general intelligence will probably kill us all, but there will be great companies made along the way. I don't know the exact quote, but that, that mentality, it's not someone taking seriously what they're doing. It's not someone treating with gravity what they're doing. This wouldn't be an issue if they couldn't also make greater and greater intelligences. But in this world where we're just growing intelligences, where people who don't know what they're doing and are the most optimistic people that were foolish enough to start the companies can just grow these AIs to be smarter and smarter. That doesn't lead anywhere good.

[Steve Bannon]

Yet. Any comments?

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

You know, when Geoffrey Hinton, now Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton sort of woke up and noticed that it was starting to be real, he quit Google and started speaking out about these issues more openly. Now, who knows how much money he was turning down by doing that, but that's what he did. And that's one kind of person that you have on the playing field. And then you've also got the people who were selected and filtered for being the sort of people who would, back when OpenAI started, go over to Elon Musk and say, you know, how we can solve the problem of these things we can't control, we can put them in everyone's house, we can give everyone their own copy. And this was never valid reasoning. It was, this was, this was, you know, this was, this was always Kind of, kind of moon logic. But they sure got Elon's money and then, you know, took it and ran off. And that's just the kind of, that's just the kind of people we're dealing with here.

[Steve Bannon]

Guys, can you hang on for one second? I just want to hold you through the break because I want to give people access to how to get this book, where to get it, your writing, social media, all of it. Yud and Nate.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

Heroes.

[Steve Bannon]

Very hard what they're doing. Very, very, very, very hard. Short commercial break. We're back in a moment.

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[Steve Bannon]

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[Steve Bannon]

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[Steve Bannon]

Do it today. Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban nyad. By the way, just where I let you guys go and give your coordinates and tell people how to pie this amazing. Purchase this book which we're going to break down, spend more time on folks in the days ahead. There's a movie called Mountain Head which basically has actors playing Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, I think Zuckerberg and Altman. And it turns out it's actually kind of dark to begin with, but it turns very dark when one becomes. They identify one as a decelerationist. Are you guys. Nate, you first. Are you a decelerationist about this?

[Nate Soares]

I would decelerate AI. I would decelerate any technology that could wipe us all out and prevent us from learning from Mistakes every other technology. I think we need to go full steam ahead and are sometimes hobbling ourselves. But AI in particular, any technology that kills everybody and leaves no survivors, you can't rush ahead on that.

[Steve Bannon]

Yud, are you a decelerationist?

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

I've got libertarian sympathies. If a product only kills the voluntary customers and maybe the person who sold it, that's kind of between them. I might have sympathy, but not to the point where I try to take over their lives about it. If a product kills people standing next to the customer, it's a regional matter. Different cities, different states can make different rules about it. If a product kills people on the other side of the planet, that's everybody's problem. And, you know, yeah, you don't have to agree with me to want humanity to not die here about this part, but I would happen to, you know, go full steam ahead on nuclear power. Yeah, it's just the. It's just a special case here. Artificial intelligence, you know, gain of function. Research on viruses might be another thing, but, you know, yeah, the. It does actually differ by the technology. There's not this one switch that's set to accel or decel.

[Steve Bannon]

Yud, by the way, what's your social media? I might add, we were the first show in January of 2020 to say about what the University of North Carolina was doing on gain of function was a danger to humanity and were laughed at by the mainstream media as being conspiracy theorists. Yud, what is your. What are your coordinates? What's your social media? How do people follow you, your thinking, your writing?

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

Es Yudkowski on Twitter.

[Steve Bannon]

Thank you, sir. Nate, where do people go to get you?

[Nate Soares]

Yeah, I'm so 8 r e s on Twitter.

[Steve Bannon]

Thank you, guys. Actually, we're very honored to have you on. Look forward to having you back and break down this book even more. Everybody ought to go get it. If anyone builds it, Everyone dies. A landmark book everyone should get and read. Thank you guys for joining us in the war room. Jo Allen's going to stick with us. I'm going to go back to Joe in a moment. Shimane, you're an ambassador. First off, you're one of the ambassadors of Turning Point. Give me your thoughts of what's evolved this week. And, you know, we got Charlie's funeral or celebration of life on Sunday. Give me your. Give me. You knew him extremely well, and you do the faith show here on Real America's Voice, but you're an ambassador at Turning Point. Your thoughts about this tragic week?

[Shermaine Nugent]

It's been horrific for so many people. It's been a turning point for not just America, but for the world. And we saw Charlie as the last good guy. And for this to happen to him is just devastating to so many people. And so many people are wondering, what do we do? What do we do with all this anger and. And sadness? And I say silence is not an option at this point. We must move forward. We must carry that torch that Charlie gave us. So that's what I'm trying to do with my Faith and freedom show right here on Real America's Voice. And I appreciate that. I think I am the oldest Turning Point ambassador. I have to be. I don't know anybody older, but hang on.

[Steve Bannon]

That's just biological. That's chronological or chronological age. It's certainly not biological age. You've got more energy. You've got more energy than 20 young people. How do you. How do you do it? I mean, show you're an ambassador. Hey, I just. I'm just. I'm just calling it. I'm just calling balls and strikes here.

[Shermaine Nugent]

Well, it's true.

[Steve Bannon]

Tell me about. Tell me what keeps you so young? Well, besides your husband, which I know is young. He's young. He's young at heart, or it's like parenting a young child. Besides Ted, what keeps you young?

[Shermaine Nugent]

Steve, that's a whole nother podcast, okay, About Ted and trying to stay young, but I think you're right. There's a study recently about epigenetics, which is the science that shows your DNA is not your destiny. None of us eat, right. So we all take supplements, right? Most of us do, but there's so many different fruit and vegetable supplements on the market. And if you study their ingredients, which I have, I'm a label reader, and it's just common produce with limited nutritional value. There's a product called Field of Greens, and it's different. And they wanted to prove that it was different by doing a university study where each fruit and vegetable in field of greens is medically selected for health benefits. There's heart health, lungs, kidney, liver, healthy metabolism and healthy weight. And in this study, Steve, they wanted to see how diet, exercise, and lifestyle changed your real age. And this is fascinating to me, but some of the participants, they ate their normal diets, including fast food. They didn't exercise anymore, and they didn't stop drinking. All they did is add field of greens to their daily routine. And the results were remarkable. 60% of participants showed a measurable reduction in their biological aging markers after just 30 days. One scoop of field of greens slows the body's aging process at the cellular level. And I think this was what helped me because I've worked out all my life. I'll be honest, I don't eat right all the time. So just by taking one scoop of field of greens I can see that aging slowed down.

[Steve Bannon]

Fieldofgreens.com promo code Bandon you get 20% off. It'll ship out today. We hit it every day here at the war room. Not as it have all the about this Texas A and M study but also I get an energy boost Chemain and just every day. So that's where we take it. Want to thank you for all you do and particularly being an ambassador and helping the folks over at Turning Point, particularly in this very difficult phase for the movement, for the company, for Erica, the kids, everybody. So I really want to thank you for joining us today.

[Shermaine Nugent]

Well, we have to it's an Esther 414 moment. If we remain silent, silent release, relief and deliverance is going to come from someplace else. We were born Steve, for such a time as this.

[Steve Bannon]

Shermaine Nugent, thank you very much. Wisdom and energy all in one. Thank you ma'.

[Eliezer Yudkowski]

Am.

[Steve Bannon]

Appreciate you.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

Dr. Navarro, you were our co host.

[Steve Bannon]

You were the contributor, you were the president. You've been with the president now for 10 years. You're his economic advisor. But tell me about you wrote this piece that's pretty moving and I think it's so tied to your book about you went to prison so that we don't have to talk to me about Charlie Kirk.

[Peter Navarro]

See, I really want people to understand the legacy of Charlie Kirk. Historically he could have been president. He certainly would have been a governor. But He Already at 31 years old, he's the greatest political organizer in the last 50 years. And if you compare him to the two who were there at the top before Charlie Kirk, Ralph Reed on the right, David Axelrod on the left. What Ralph Reed did with the Christian Coalition is mobilize the Christian right to get out and actually vote. He was responsible for the Gingrich Revolution in 1994 as well as the Bush win in 2000. And then Axelrod on the left, he was able to mobilize a natural Democrat constituent Blacks, Hispanics and and young people used micro targeting some advanced kind of techniques at the time and basically won the race for Obama in 2008. The reason why Charlie is head and shoulders above each one of them is he had a much heavier lift. Steve to mobilize the youth in support of MAGA And Trump and MAGA candidates in Congress, he had to first bring him over to our side, and that was a heavy lift. And he did it. When I first met him, Charlie, back in 2016, young kid, thinking he was going to go out there and change the viewpoint of the youth of America, I thought he was Don Quixote. I'll be honest with you, Steve. He proved me wrong. He proved the world wrong. And he. People need to understand. Father, husband, patriot, just a wonderful human being. That's here. But in terms of pure historical significance, he will go down in history as the greatest political organizer the last 50 years. And I don't think anybody's ever going to do again what he did, because it's relatively easy to mobilize. It's very difficult to persuade people over to your side and then mobilize. Steve.

[Steve Bannon]

Hang on for a second. I want to. Because you got your PhD at Harvard, then you went back, you taught in the university system. When I first started, Charlie, and I think Breitbart's the first guy to give him a paid gig. But some of the people around Breitbart were what financed him at the very beginning when he was going after student governments. And I think many people who thought Charlie was just a ball of fire thought it was the longest odds because. And you thought so, too, because the universities, as we know now, are. So it is based around this kind of radical philosophy, and the kids are formed all the way from kindergarten all the way up. So that is, to me, the greatness of Charlie Kirk that he was able to go in and just do this when so many people said, hey, look, this guy's great, he's fantastic, but this is Don Quixote. You're tilting at windmills here. It just can't happen.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

And you knew it better than anybody.

[Steve Bannon]

Because you were inside the belly of the beast.

[Peter Navarro]

I'm brutal. I spent 25 years at the University of California in Irvine, and if there's a system that ever was woke, that certainly is it. But what Charlie understood, he didn't start at Harvard and Cornell. He understood that most of the universities in this country are in flyover country. And he just rolled his sleeves up. He was tireless. He went out there and Socratically, I mean, when I taught in the classroom, I was a big fan of the Socratic method. You can't tell people things. You've got to have them come to their own conclusions. And that's how Charlie was able to bring people home to maga and very keen intellect. I mean, fast Forward. It's like when I got out of prison, you know, the day I got out of prison, July 17, I went to the Republican National Committee, gave the speech. I went to prison, so you won't have to. The title of the book is actually a tagline from the speech. It means like a wake up call. But I mention this in the context of Charlie, because I didn't even know this, but two days earlier I saw a clip was shown. I was on the set of a. Shortly after he got killed, and he was giving a speech on my birthday, July 15th, two days before me. And he said, I've visited college campuses so you won't have to. I mean, the way somehow it struck a warm cord in me and I felt like we were fellow travelers. And, you know, I'm on the campaign trail getting out of prison with the boss, my fiance, Pixie. In the book, I call her Bonnie. You know her well, Steve. She's been on your show. We'd see Charlie everywhere, right? Everywhere we'd go. We were in Georgia, North Carolina, we were in Pennsylvania. He was always there. And then during the transition, he was essentially Sergio Gore's co pilot there, putting all the personnel together in the administration. And look, the boss, Charlie was like a son to Donald John Trump, as well as a key advisor, one of his most trusted advisors. So he'll be missed. I'm going to try to hit you right out on Sunday and be there. I'm sure you'll be covered.

[Steve Bannon]

Hang on one second. Yeah, yeah, hang on a second. We're doing wall to wall coverage of it. I want to hold you through the break because I want to talk about the book for a second. Back in a moment. We will fight till they're all gone. We rejoice when there's no more. Let's take down the ccp.

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[Steve Bannon]

Do it today. Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban. Okay, thank you. By the way, gold retract a little bit today. It's not the price of gold, it's the process of how you get to the value of gold. Make sure you take your phone out right now and text Bannon B A N N O N 989898 to get the ultimate guide which has to be free Investing Golden Precious Metals in the Age of Trump. So go check it out. We had a rate cut last night, only 25 basis points. President Trump wants more. His Steve Mirren, the Council on Economic Advisors chair is now the, I guess the interim governor. He voted against. I want a 50 basis point cut. Go find out why gold has been a hedge for times of financial turbulence in mankind's history. Joe Allen, I know you got a bolt. Just give your coordinates. You can't be on tonight because you'll be at one of the conferences I'm going to get you back on. Hopefully tomorrow. We had a historic interview today on the book. If anyone builds it, everyone dies. Very uplifting. Where do people go to get your writing? Sir?

[Joe Allen]

If the audience wants to hear the in depth interview I did with Nate Soares a couple of weeks ago, it's right at the top of my social media. O E B O T X Y Z Also an article about the hearing two days ago with Josh Hawley and the parents of children who have who were lured into suicide by AI that's also up at the top of my social media at Joe B OT X Y Z or Joe Bot xyz.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, we are backed up on a lot of stuff because of the Charlie Kirk situation was obviously a priority including Designate and tifa a terrorist group so.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

We can get to the bottom of all of it and not just have.

[Steve Bannon]

This dealt with by Utah officials as a single murder. It's much deeper than that. What? The assassination of Charlie Kirk. Joe Allen, thank you so much. Josh was supposed to be here today because we had the press conference, and right there on the screen, you see the President, United States, getting ready to leave, to go to the. To go to the airfield to take Air Force One back. He'll arrive later tonight. Of course, we'll be covering all of that. Peter Navarro, one of President Trump's closest advisors, and I think arguably the longest advisor. I think you're the only ones been there from the very, very, very beginning. That's still there.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

Why should.

[Steve Bannon]

In a world of all this information, everything going on, as big a hero as you are to this movement, as highly respected as you are by President Trump, because you're kind of the architect with him of the reorganization of the world's trading patterns. Why should people buy a book about you and your days in prison, sir?

[Peter Navarro]

It's not about me, Steve. And I would ask the posse to go right now to Amazon. I went to prison so you won't have to. The book is really the best analysis of how the left is going after all of this. If they can come for me, they can come for Steve Bannon, put him in prison. If they can try to put Trump in prison. Now, they shot Charlie Kirk. They can do this to you, and I'll take you into prison. And I went to prison, so you won't have to. But the broad scope here, Steve, is really an analysis about the asymmetry, the disturbing asymmetry between how the left is waging war on this. You mentioned. Everybody I serve with, Steve, including you, has been a target of the left. At a minimum, they've spent millions of dollars in legal fees, whether it's Mike Flynn or America's Mayor, Rudy Giuliani. They take the bar cards of Jeff Clark, John Eastman, and on the other end, Steve, you and I went to prison, and. And everybody who put us there, every single person, was a Democrat, except Liz Cheney. And that's the exception that proves the rule. I mean, think about that. How can the Democrats seize power and use that to put us in prison and call us fascists? How dare they, Steve? So I went to prison so you won't have to. It's a story about how we must wake up to what's happening. But it's all a Lawfare story. But look, if you want to find out what it's like to go into prison for a misdemeanor and wind up spending four months with 200 felons, this is the book. And you know, Bonnie, my fiance, it's also a story about how we were able to Cope and deal with that. The message there is simply that she did the time with me. And that's what happens when people are unjustly targeted by the left. It's not just you. We can take it, Steve, you and I are soldiers. We can take it. But when they go after our families, that's where you draw the line. So it's a big book, a big story. And go ahead.

[Steve Bannon]

If they steal the election in 2028, trust me, this audience, they're going to be coming for you. You see, now we're in a different place than we even back then. This is getting more and more intense every day. That's why Navarro's book has got to be written, because it's actually for you. And about you ain't about Navarro, not about me, not about President Trump. There are different characters in this story, but the book is about you. And understand, like I said, there's no compromise here. There's no unity here. One side's going to win and one side is going to lose. And if they steal it in 28, they're coming for you.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

Peter, where do people go to get your writings?

[Steve Bannon]

Where they go to get. Particularly your great piece on Charlie Kirk, where they go to get your book?

[Peter Navarro]

Sure. The book I went to prison so you won't have to. It's on Amazon. It came out two days ago. Please drive this thing up to bestsellers so we get the message out. It's our best defense about them targeting us. I went to prison so you won't have to. On Amazon. The piece about Charlie is very close to my heart. It's on the Washington Times op ed site today. I put it out on X at Real P. Navarro. It'll be up on my sub stack on Sunday as we celebrate Charlie on that sacred Sunday that we're about to have. And you can always go to my substack, peternavar.substack.com But Steve, I really appreciate what the war room does. I appreciate being able to come talk about I went to prison so you won't have to. And we got some C. SPAN is running a long hour long interview on Sunday at 8.

[Steve Bannon]

We're talking about on Sunday night.

[Peter Navarro]

Yeah, we'll talk about.

[Steve Bannon]

Peter's gonna be with us. Yeah, you're gonna be on Saturday and also you're gonna be on Sunday. We're doing wall to wall coverage live from the stadium. We'll give more details like Peter Navarro. Thank you, Mike Lindell. It's been a long, tough morning for the war room.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

They need A deal, sir. What do you got for us?

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[Steve Bannon]

My, my, my, mypillow.com promo code. Warm. See you back here at 5.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

Megan Kelly, we toss to the Charlie Kirk show to hours of populist nationalism.

[Steve Bannon]

Hosted today by Megyn Kelly. We'll see you back here at 5:00pm Eastern Daylight Time.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Host]

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[Steve Bannon]

Do it today.