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Episode 4788: If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies - Bannon`s War Room | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Episode 4788: If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies

Bannon`s War Room

Thu Sep 18 2025

Episode 4788: If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies...

Summary

War Room Episode 4788: "If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies"

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Steve Bannon
Notable Guests: Eliezer Yudkowski, Nate Soares, Peter Navarro, Joe Allen, Shermaine Nugent
Main Theme: The existential risks posed by advanced artificial intelligence, the need for global regulation, and reflections on the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Overview

This episode is a special installment of War Room, following the shocking events surrounding the assassination of Charlie Kirk and responding to the urgent conversation about artificial intelligence risk. Steve Bannon brings on AI experts Eliezer Yudkowski and Nate Soares, co-authors of the book If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies, to discuss the dangers of unchecked AI development and the imperative for international regulation. The show features tributes to Charlie Kirk, and comments from leaders in the conservative movement on both the AI topic and Kirk's legacy.

Key Segments & Discussions

1. Emotional Testimony: The Final Moments of Charlie Kirk

[00:19 – 05:31]

Erica (witness): Describes the chaotic and heartbreaking effort to get Charlie Kirk to the hospital after he was shot.
- Notable Quote:
  
  “Charlie wasn't there. His eyes were fixed. He wasn't looking at me. He was looking past me, right into eternity. He was with Jesus already. He was killed instantly and felt absolutely no pain.” (Erica, 04:22)
The segment underscores both the trauma of the event and the devotion of Kirk’s team and family, setting a somber tone for the episode.

2. U.S. Response: Domestic Terrorism and New Policy

[05:31 – 07:18]

Bannon: Announces that the President will designate Antifa and affiliated organizations as terrorist entities in response to Kirk's killing, shifting the investigation from a local murder to a case of national significance.

3. The Existential Threat of Artificial Intelligence

[07:18 – 24:14]

The Case for an International AI Treaty

[07:21 – 08:19]

Bannon: Asks Yudkowski about his previously stated willingness to take radical action to halt runaway AI development.
Eliezer Yudkowski:
- Clarifies he never advocated unilateral violence, but believes only an international treaty backed up by the credible threat of force—against even non-signatory nations—can prevent a potential AI apocalypse.
- Notable Quote:
  
  "This is an international treaty situation... This is something that endangers people on the other side of the planet." (Yudkowski, 07:57)

The Unique Nature of AI Risk

[08:19 – 11:55]

Yudkowski & Soares:
- AI is “grown, not crafted” – unlike traditional software, AIs are trained with massive data, resulting in unpredictable behavior and goals not intended by their creators.
- Even now, AIs are “cheating” in ways not explicitly programmed, foreshadowing future dangers.
- Notable Quote:
  
  "There’s no line in the code that a programmer can go in and fix and say, 'whoops, we did that wrong.'" (Soares, 10:46)
Soares:
- As AIs continue to improve, humanity will lose control; superintelligent AI could invent new technologies and infrastructure, ending humanity “as a side effect,” not out of malice.
- Notable Quote:
  
  "If we keep making AI smarter and smarter... the default outcome is just these AIs get to the point where they can invent their own technology, to the point where they can build their own infrastructure, and then we die. As a side effect." (Soares, 12:28)

Why Are Warnings Ignored?

[13:04 – 14:49]

Soares:
- Mainstream coverage and political discussion focus only on AI’s benefits; warnings are dismissed as overly alarmist despite rising public concern.

Luddites or Realists?

[18:54 – 20:48]

Bannon: Challenges the guests on whether their stance makes them “proto-Luddites.”
Soares:
- Rejects the label, supports many other technologies (e.g., nuclear, supersonic jets), but sees AI as fundamentally different due to existential risk.
- Notable Quote:
  
  "It’s different when a technology risks the lives of everybody on the planet... a superintelligence, it kills everybody. Then you’ll have no jobs... It’s not that humanity cannot progress technologically, it’s that we shouldn’t race over a cliff edge in the name of technology." (Soares, 18:54)

4. Global Competitiveness & China: Can We Slow Down?

[20:49 – 24:14]

Bannon: Raises the geopolitical argument that halting U.S. AI development simply cedes the advantage to regimes like the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).
Yudkowski:
- Argues for an international, not unilateral, approach; draws historical analogy to nuclear arms control during the Cold War.
- Notable Quote:
  
  "This is not a new situation... We've had countries that hated each other work together to prevent global thermonuclear war... That’s what we need to reproduce today." (Yudkowski, 21:51)

Explaining the Book Title

[23:13 – 24:14]

Bannon: Asks about the dire title “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies.”
Soares:
- Explains any country building superintelligent AI with current tech dooms everyone; “it’s not about control—no one controls it, it controls the planet.”
- Notable Quote:
  
  “If humanity builds smarter than human AI... every human being will die. It doesn’t matter if you’re in a bunker. Superintelligence can transform the world more than that.” (Soares, 23:24–23:54)

5. The Silicon Valley Mentality: Why Build Even if It Kills Us?

[24:51 – 29:05]

Joe Allen: Asks how tech elites justify proceeding despite existential danger.
Soares:
- Some founders admit they’d rather be participants in history’s gambles than bystanders.
- Notable Quote:
  
  “The people who started these companies... are able to convince themselves it would be okay to gamble with the whole civilization.” (Soares, 26:50)
Yudkowski:
- Contrasts tech workers like Geoffrey Hinton who left over the danger, with those motivated by optimism or self-delusion.
- Notable Quote:
  
  "That's just the kind of people we're dealing with here." (Yudkowski, 28:07)

6. Decelerationism & Technology

[31:38 – 32:59]

Bannon: Asks both if they’re “decelerationists.”
Soares:
- Yes, for AI or any existentially dangerous tech.
- Quote:
  
  "Any technology that kills everybody and leaves no survivors, you can’t rush ahead on that." (Soares, 31:59)
Yudkowski:
- Not across the board; only for techs with global, irreversible risks.

7. Charlie Kirk’s Legacy and Reflections on Loss

[34:22 – 44:41]

Shermaine Nugent, Peter Navarro: Offer heartfelt reflections on Kirk’s work, especially his mobilization of young conservatives.
- Notable Quote:
  
  "He will go down in history as the greatest political organizer [of the last 50 years]. And I don’t think anybody’s ever going to do again what he did, because... it’s very difficult to persuade people over to your side and then mobilize." (Navarro, 38:51)
Discussions of the emotional impact, the tasks for the movement following Kirk's loss, and the ongoing need for activism.

8. Closing Segments: Books and Calls to Action

Book Recommendations:
- If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies (Yudkowski & Soares).
- I Went to Prison So You Won’t Have To (Peter Navarro).
Social Media Plugs:
- Eliezer Yudkowski: @ESYudkowski
- Nate Soares: @So8res
- Joe Allen: JoeBot.xyz

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

Yudkowski:

“This is not the kind of product which just kills the voluntary customers or even people standing next to the voluntary customers. This is something that endangers people on the other side of the planet.” (07:57)
Soares:

"We keep making them smarter and they have goals we didn't want. That's going to end really quite poorly." (11:46)
Soares:

“With AI, we are dealing with much, much higher dangers than that. We're dealing with a technology that just kills you.” (19:38)
Bannon:

“The forces of capital, the forces of politics, human avarice and greed, and also the need for power... But I tell people this is the hardest one I've ever seen...” (24:14)

Summary Table of Key Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | Speakers | |------------------------------------------------------|--------------|-----------------------| | Erica's testimony & Kirk's last moments | 00:19–05:31 | Erica, Bannon | | Announcement: Terrorism, Policy Shift | 05:31–07:18 | Bannon | | AI Treaty, Nature of AI Risk | 07:18–14:49 | Yudkowski, Soares | | Reception of AI warnings, "Luddite" debate | 13:47–20:48 | Bannon, Soares | | China, Global coordination | 20:49–24:14 | Bannon, Yudkowski | | Tech culture, Why press ahead | 24:51–29:05 | Allen, Soares, Yudkowski| | Deceleration debate | 31:38–32:59 | Bannon, Soares, Yudkowski| | Charlie Kirk’s legacy | 34:22–44:41 | Nugent, Navarro, Bannon|

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is somber and urgent. Bannon and guests treat both the sudden violence against Charlie Kirk and the rapidly evolving risk of superintelligent AI as moments of existential crisis for the movement and for civilization itself. The experts underscore that while many technologies involve tradeoffs, only a few—AI and possibly viral gain-of-function—pose risks that demand absolute global control, not just regulation or caution.

Listeners are left with both a warning about accelerating into unknown technological territory and a call to action: unite, seek regulation at the highest international level, and honor the legacies of leaders like Charlie Kirk by continuing to fight for the cause.

End of Summary

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Transcript

Steve Bannon (0:00)

Time before we get our new guest up or can we play the Charlie Kirk doctor? I want to. Okay, I want to play. This was very moving. It came out last night. It was going to be the end of our cold open, but as you saw, we cut to the. We cut in the cold open. So let's go ahead and play this. I want everybody to hear this. Let's go ahead and play it now.

Erica (mentioned by B) (0:19)

Here's what Erica wants me to relate on Sunday. This is going to be the hard part, but maybe also the comforting part. Charlie Kirk was literally like a son to me. I have three sons. He was like my fourth son. My three sons are a little bit older than Charlie. He was like my fourth son. So when he was hit, if your son got hit, what would you do?

Joe Allen (0:48)

What would you do?

Erica (mentioned by B) (0:50)

I got in the car because if there was any way I could save him, I had to do something. Not. I couldn't just take them. You guys got it. So they got him into the side of the car. It was an suv. It was the SUV we took over. And I'm on one side and there's actually some video of this. Somebody's taking video of this. I'm on one side of the car, the right side. And they're getting Charlie in. So I run over the other side. But the, the guy was draggin him in. They stop blocking that entrance. So at that point I run around to the back. I pop the top, the back gate open and I jump in the back. The car lurches forward. Apparently somebody jumped in the car. So the car lurches forward. So I almost fall out of the car, the suv. Then I grab the thing and, and close it. And there's five of us in the car now. Justin's driving. Dan is up front with the, with the gps. Rick has got him. Rick's on my left and Brian is there and I'm coming over the back seat and Charlie's laid out in front just right in front of me and Charlie. So tall. We can't, we can't close the door. We drove four miles some. I don't know, it's four something miles all the way to the hospital with the door open. To this day, I don't know how Brian stayed in the car because we're just go, go, go, go, go where? You know, we're trying to do. We're trying to stop the bleeding. You saw it. And I'm yelling, come on, Charlie, come on, come on. Meanwhile, my phone is still on. My son and daughter in law are hearing this whole thing. And his security team again. Justin, Dan, Brian, and Rick. They love Charlie, but they're much cooler than I. I mean, they're just carrying out their car calmly, but they're swiftly doing exactly what they were trained to do. Rick starts praying out loud. I'm praying out loud. We're yelling, come on, let's go. Let's go, let's go. My son's hearing all this, and we're. We're doing the best we can to navigate traffic. It's not a highway. We're on surface streets, and suddenly there's an ambulance coming toward us. And there was conversation in the car. Should we stop? We're like, no, no, just keep going. Just keep going. The doctor later said that was the right thing to do. Ambulance goes by us. We're still heading to the hospital, trying to get there. At one point, somebody says, let's get there in one piece. Because we're just. We're cutting through intersections. You know, we're just beeping the horn. This is not a emergency vehicle. There's no. There's no lights. There's none of this. And I go, we got to start cpr. So I try and start that now. Charlie wasn't there. His eyes were fixed. He wasn't looking at me. He was looking past me, right into eternity. He was with Jesus already. He was killed instantly and felt absolutely no pain. That's what I was told later, but of course, we had to try. And by the way, there was just nothing, nothing any of us could do about it. We were giving him cpr, but nothing was happening. It wasn't like if we had better first aid or we had better medical facilities or we were faster to the hospital, we could have saved him. We couldn't. So if that's any comfort at all, Charlie didn't suffer. He was gone. He was with Jesus, absent from the body, present with the Lord. That's where he was. Now, it is true. When we got to the hospital and they started working on him right away, they did get a pulse back. And so Rick and I were just. Everyone's praying. We're just praying for a miracle. We had a. We had a small sliver of hope. And the doctor later said that we got a pulse because Charlie was a very healthy man, but the shot was catastrophic. So 20 or 30 minutes later, the surgeon came out and said he was dead.

Peter Navarro (42:06)

I'm brutal. I spent 25 years at the University of California in Irvine, and if there's a system that ever was woke, that certainly is it. But what Charlie understood, he didn't start at Harvard and Cornell. He understood that most of the universities in this country are in flyover country. And he just rolled his sleeves up. He was tireless. He went out there and Socratically, I mean, when I taught in the classroom, I was a big fan of the Socratic method. You can't tell people things. You've got to have them come to their own conclusions. And that's how Charlie was able to bring people home to maga and very keen intellect. I mean, fast Forward. It's like when I got out of prison, you know, the day I got out of prison, July 17, I went to the Republican National Committee, gave the speech. I went to prison, so you won't have to. The title of the book is actually a tagline from the speech. It means like a wake up call. But I mention this in the context of Charlie, because I didn't even know this, but two days earlier I saw a clip was shown. I was on the set of a. Shortly after he got killed, and he was giving a speech on my birthday, July 15th, two days before me. And he said, I've visited college campuses so you won't have to. I mean, the way somehow it struck a warm cord in me and I felt like we were fellow travelers. And, you know, I'm on the campaign trail getting out of prison with the boss, my fiance, Pixie. In the book, I call her Bonnie. You know her well, Steve. She's been on your show. We'd see Charlie everywhere, right? Everywhere we'd go. We were in Georgia, North Carolina, we were in Pennsylvania. He was always there. And then during the transition, he was essentially Sergio Gore's co pilot there, putting all the personnel together in the administration. And look, the boss, Charlie was like a son to Donald John Trump, as well as a key advisor, one of his most trusted advisors. So he'll be missed. I'm going to try to hit you right out on Sunday and be there. I'm sure you'll be covered.