Bannon’s War Room Episode 4964

A Conversation with Sam Tanenhaus and the Book Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America
Date: December 1, 2025
Host: Stephen K. Bannon
Guest: Sam Tanenhaus

Episode Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging conversation between Stephen K. Bannon and Sam Tanenhaus, noted journalist and biographer, centering on Tanenhaus’ new book Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America. The discussion weaves through Buckley’s legacy, the roots and evolution of modern American conservatism, Tanenhaus’ earlier work on Whitaker Chambers, and the era-defining Cold War struggles against communism. Through anecdotes, reflections, and historical context, the episode delves into ideological battles from the 1920s to the modern populist right, connecting the dots between figures like Chambers, Buckley, Joe McCarthy, and contemporary America.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Tanenhaus—A Liberal—Tells the Story of Conservatism

[01:21, 02:26]

• Bannon appreciates Tanenhaus’ background: “You're a non observant secular liberal Jewish guy from New York ... But … if you want to read about lived Christianity and its worldview, about the atheism of Marxism and its fight against that, there's no better vehicle to read that than the Whitaker Chambers biography.”
• Tanenhaus responds: “Well, so great of you to describe me that way, Steve. Not everyone else does ... I hear time and time again that all sorts of people read these books.”
• The discussion highlights Tanenhaus' outsider perspective and scholarly rigor, suggesting it enhances his chronicling of conservatism’s complexities.

2. Whitaker Chambers and the Christian Anti-Communist Tradition

[04:17, 05:31, 06:13, 07:22]

• Tanenhaus provides background: Chambers was the “founder of the modern anti communist movement ... based on a Christian conservatism” and a former Soviet agent.
• Impact of the Great Depression: The era’s threat of socialism/communism loomed large; “Don’t realize how close the country after the Great Depression … could have very much slipped into ... socialism, Communism, or … great revolution ... given the impact that the Great Depression had.” (Bannon, [05:11])
• Soviet Infiltration: Chambers and others helped expose how the Soviets had recruited influential Americans, including in the State and Treasury Departments.
• On Chambers’ break with communism: Stalin’s pact with Hitler (Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact) was pivotal for Chambers. “He realized they were sending him [to Spain] to knock him off … Chambers realized … this is not the idealism I work for.” (Tanenhaus, [19:41])

3. Chambers, Hiss, and the Anatomy of Spycraft

[13:35–22:52]

• Bannon and Tanenhaus recount Chambers’ testimony against Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White.
• Chambers tried to warn authorities that “there are spies now who've been working for the Soviet Union, and their stuff is going to be transmitted … to the Nazis.” (Bannon, [21:19–22:52])
• The barriers to addressing communist infiltration were social, political, and institutional—the inclination was to “handle it internally” rather than expose the scandal and risk public trust.

Notable Quote:

“You and I are going to leave the winning world for the losing world, because they thought the Communists were going to win.”
— Sam Tanenhaus recounting Chambers, [21:19]

4. Buckley, Catholicism, and the Dynamics of Conservative Identity

[08:32–09:58]

• The show explores Buckley’s Catholicism, noting its formative role in his anti-communist and anti-liberal philosophy.
• Bannon singles out attacks on God and Man at Yale as a sign of anti-Catholic sentiment in elite institutions:
  “They said, well, we do have a conspiracy in America ... it's run by the Vatican, not by the Communists.” ([09:38], Tanenhaus paraphrasing critics of Buckley)

5. Joe McCarthy: The Polarizing Populist for an Anti-Communist Age

[07:36–08:41, 22:52–25:01]

• Tanenhaus and Bannon discuss the enduring controversy around McCarthy, emphasizing how “McCarthy was so powerful, not because the facts he brought, but the way he said things … he really got a great. He was the first really grassroots guy.”
• McCarthy’s Catholicism and grassroots appeal set him apart, foreshadowing later right-wing populism.

Notable Quote:

“McCarthy talked in a way, in a street vernacular ... that galvanized people’s … 'we know these are bad guys and they want to change America and we want them out.'”
— Bannon, [07:36]

6. Liberal Anti-Communism & Changing Political Lines

[12:03–12:26]

• “Some of the hardest anti communists actually were Democrats.” Tanenhaus and Bannon note the now-forgotten coalition of anti-communists across party lines—Allard Lowenstein, Arthur Schlesinger, etc.

7. Chambers’ Literary Brilliance and ‘Witness’

[11:50–12:29]

• Chambers' memoir Witness is praised as both a literary and political landmark.
• Tanenhaus: “He was going to put himself out there ... witness is the same word as martyr. He took the risk.”

8. Yalta, the Postwar Order, and Conservative Grievances

[29:31–34:25]

• Expanded discussion on Yalta’s decisive role in shaping postwar conservatism.
• Buckley and others viewed the presence of agents like Alger Hiss at key summits as proof of “sell-outs” to the Soviets.
• Life magazine’s celebration of Hiss (“photo of the week” [36:24]) is pointed out as emblematic of establishment naiveté or complicity.

Notable Quote:

“Yalta has always been a massive issue … whether it was Nixon, Buckley, McCarthy, currently Bannon … to say, hey, and Alger Hiss was a golden boy.”
— Bannon, [24:13]

9. The Whitaker Chambers-Alger Hiss Case: Impact and Legacy

[37:02–51:47]

• Chambers, pressured and stigmatized, became a reluctant but crucial “informer.”
• The witness testimonies before HUAC, and the subsequent prosecution of Hiss—with Nixon as a chief interrogator—became a flashpoint in American anti-communist politics.
• Tanenhaus notes, “Chambers is there … he goes in front of a microphone like this and he says ... I was part of a Soviet apparatus … and the members included … Alger Hiss. And like that's the name that registers with everybody.” ([49:06])

10. Why This History Is Buried

[51:47–53:40]

• Bannon poses: “Why is this history not talked about? It's not taught anywhere and it's not even talked about in this city?”
• Tanenhaus responds that public memory has eroded and this history is ‘inconvenient’ for both liberals and the establishment, producing denial and silence.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Paraphrase | |-----------|--------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:21 | Bannon | "I've wanted to do this for a long ... very special, we have the author, Sam Tanenhaus ... Buckley ... a masterpiece." | | 07:36 | Bannon | "[McCarthy] talked in a way, in a street vernacular ... that galvanized people’s ... we know these are bad guys." | | 11:50 | Tanenhaus | "My father told me you read [Witness]. How old were you reading it? I was 14." | | 21:19 | Tanenhaus | "You and I are going to leave the winning world for the losing world, because they thought the Communists were going to win." | | 24:13 | Bannon | "Yalta has always been a massive issue ... Alger Hiss was a golden boy ... the left never wants to talk about this."| | 29:17 | Bannon | "I didn't realize you're such a great storyteller ... your books, but you, you, you're a raconteur." | | 49:06 | Tanenhaus | "...Chambers goes in front of a microphone like this and he says ... I was part of a Soviet apparatus ... the members included ... Alger Hiss. That's the name that registers with everybody." | | 51:47 | Bannon | "Why is this history not talked about? It's not taught anywhere and it's not even talked about in this city?" |

Noteworthy Segment Timestamps

• [01:21–04:17]: Opening context, Tanenhaus' background and approach to conservatism.
• [04:17–13:35]: Whitaker Chambers' life, conversion from communism, and formative role in American conservatism.
• [13:35–22:52]: Chambers on Soviet infiltration, break with communism, warning the U.S. government.
• [22:52–29:17]: Buckley’s Catholicism, anti-communism, and the political suppression of these topics.
• [29:31–37:02]: Yalta and postwar order’s legacy, establishment media and Alger Hiss.
• [37:02–51:47]: Chambers-Hiss case, HUAC hearings, the stigma of the “informer,” and Nixon’s early role.
• [51:47–53:40]: Why this Cold War history is absent from modern discourse.

Tone & Style

• The conversation is energetic, detailed, frequently tangential, and dense with anecdotes and historical references.
• Bannon frequently emphasizes a sense of hidden or buried history and draws connections to present-day populist movements.
• Tanenhaus, both scholarly and anecdotal, revels in storytelling and explanatory digressions.

Summary Takeaway

This episode of War Room offers an in-depth, lively, and provocative exploration of the Cold War era, illuminating the foundational struggles and contradictions within American conservatism through the lens of Buckley, Chambers, and their contemporaries. Tanenhaus and Bannon not only reconstruct the intellectual and personal sagas of these figures, but also underscore how these old battles still echo in today’s ideological and political climate. The episode stands as both a primer and a critique of the way American memory processes (or suppresses) its most consequential political conflicts.