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Episode 4966: Empathy The New Battleground Against The Church - Bannon`s War Room | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Episode 4966: Empathy The New Battleground Against The Church

Bannon`s War Room

Tue Dec 02 2025

Episode 4966: Empathy The New Battleground Against The Church ...

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bannon’s War Room Episode 4966

“Empathy: The New Battleground Against The Church”
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Steve Bannon
Notable Guests: Matt Van Epps, Garrett Galile, Dave Brat, Megan Basham, Jack Posobic

Episode Overview

This episode of Bannon’s War Room centers on the intersection of political dogfights and cultural issues, with a particular focus on how empathy is being wielded as a wedge within the American church and conservative Christian communities. The show includes discussions about crucial ongoing and upcoming political battles—namely, key elections in Tennessee and a high-stakes redistricting fight in Indiana—alongside a deep dive into how “empathy” is being politicized and weaponized in mainstream evangelical circles. The broader context is the existential struggle for the direction of American conservatism, inside and outside the church.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tennessee 7th Congressional Race: Mobilization Push

[00:52–05:00]

Matt Van Epps, Army combat veteran and Republican candidate, joins to rally final Election Day turnout in Tennessee’s 7th Congressional District.
- Early voting is strong, but the margin is slim.
- Van Epps emphasizes the race’s significance for the “America First” agenda, noting strong support from Speaker Johnson and President Trump.
- Quote: “Your vote might be the one that decides this election and it decides the direction we're gonna move this country. And that's an America first direction.” —Matt Van Epps [02:54]
- Socials and Mobilization: Voters directed to matt4tn.com for info, urged to use social media as “force multipliers.”
- Bannon underscores urgency: “Matt, with your shield or on your shield.” [04:46]

2. Indiana Redistricting: National Stakes in Local Fights

[05:00–13:50]

Garrett Galile (Turning Point Action) discusses Indiana’s redistricting, which could reshape House control for years.
- Aims to shift from a 7:2 to a 9:0 GOP congressional split.
- Some GOP legislators hesitant for "petty or self-righteous” reasons, despite Dems’ aggressive gerrymanders elsewhere.
- Quote: “Leftist states go hard in the paint on this stuff. Conservative states should do the same… there is no reason a 9-0 map should not pass.” —Garrett Galile [08:19]
- Turning Point Action rally planned for Friday, December 5, at Indiana State Capitol; high-level state officials attending.
- Activism Update: Galile reports personal doxxing after rally announcement:
  "When you're over the target, you become the target." [10:56]
- Young voters, energized by Turning Point, see through establishment foot-dragging.
Call to Action: “Force multiplier” messaging—Bannon encourages mass turnout for both Van Epps and the Indiana rally.

3. The Weaponization of Empathy in the Church

[21:14–34:05]

Megan Basham Segment:

Basham outlines how progressive movements and establishment church leaders are using “empathy” as a lever to shift evangelical Christians leftward.
- Distinguishes empathy vs. compassion:
  Empathy demands uncritical alignment with another’s feelings, suspending questions of truth or justice.
- Key Example: The National Association of Evangelicals’ advocacy for refugee resettlement, opposition to stricter vetting, and the aftermath of a recent fatal attack.
  - Quote: “Empathy demands that we don't ask questions, that we don't look at issues of justice... that's the empathy steering mechanism. It's a steering wheel on your back, as my friend Joe Rigney has said.” —Megan Basham [22:02]
- Empathy is deployed selectively—instructing Christians to sympathize with certain groups (e.g., LGBTQ+, migrants, BLM activists), but not with others affected by progressive policies (women’s spaces, police, communities disrupted by migration).
  - Quote: “They're really directing you to say, here's who you are supposed to feel empathetic for… and you're not supposed to ask simple questions of justice or truth.” —Megan Basham [25:13]
- Draws a parallel to Marxism: superficial claims of global empathy mask personal neglect.

Dave Brat’s Response:

Emphasizes that “empathy” and “values” are not central biblical teachings, but modern/subjective terms.
- Argues the left elevates these terms to attack core Christian doctrine.
- Quote: “Empathy is a modern psychological term… The goal of modern liberalism and the leftist is to get everything to be subjective because then it leads to openness.” —Dave Brat [27:19]
- Biblical focal points: Kingdom of God, repentance, Gospel, obedience.

4. Evangelical Leadership vs. Laity: The “Great Rehab Tour”

[30:39–34:05]

Basham describes a growing rift between evangelical grassroots (more conservative) and leadership (more liberal, often shaped by progressive seminaries).
- Leadership now attempting to reposition post-2020/BLM, sometimes without acknowledging past errors.
- Quote: “Unless there is repentance, we can’t let this great rehab tour happen because they will do it again.” —Megan Basham [33:10]
- Advocates for accountability and discernment: those who “bent the knee” should lose platform privilege unless they admit error.

Bannon’s Framing:

The evangelical community is the “lone bulwark” on many issues, making it a deliberate target of progressive strategies.
Calls for vigilance in pushing back against manipulative empathy narratives.

5. National Security, DC Intrigue, and Young Conservatives

[38:22–42:54]

Jack Posobic reports live from the Pentagon, previewing a press briefing concerning Venezuela, military investigations, and internal GOP-Democrat alliances.
- Concerns raised over Republicans joining Democrats to investigate Trump’s Pentagon appointees and military actions.
- Quote: “If Pete Hegseth, on the orders of Donald Trump, is conducting these types of kinetic strikes...the entire Beltway is totally against that. They want liberal hegemony. That’s what this fight is about.” —Jack Posobic [41:41]
Bannon signals a brewing battle within GOP ranks between MAGA and establishment over control and direction, paralleling church and political divides.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 02:54 | “Your vote might be the one that decides this election... an America first direction.” | Matt Van Epps | | 08:19 | “Conservative states should do the same... there is no reason a 9-0 map should not pass.” | Garrett Galile | | 10:56 | “When you’re over the target, you become the target.” | Garrett Galile | | 22:02 | “Empathy demands that we don’t ask questions… that’s the empathy steering mechanism. It’s a steering wheel on your back…” | Megan Basham | | 25:13 | “They’re really directing you to say, here’s who you are supposed to feel empathetic for… and you’re not supposed to ask simple questions of justice or truth.” | Megan Basham | | 27:19 | “Empathy is a modern psychological term… the goal of modern liberalism is to get everything to be subjective because then it leads to openness.” | Dave Brat | | 33:10 | “Unless there is repentance, we can’t let this great rehab tour happen because they will do it again.” | Megan Basham | | 41:41 | “If Pete Hegseth, on the orders of Donald Trump, is conducting these types of kinetic strikes… the entire Beltway is totally against that. They want liberal hegemony. That’s what this fight is about.” | Jack Posobic |

Important Timestamps

[00:52] – Tennessee 7th Race, Van Epps mobilization segment
[05:42] – Indiana redistricting fight and Turning Point activism
[21:22] – Megan Basham: Empathy as a wedge in the church
[30:39] – Accountability in evangelical leadership, “lone bulwark” theme
[38:22] – Pentagon/Pentagon press room, DC establishment intrigue

Tone & Language

Intense, urgent, and combative—Bannon and guests employ martial metaphors (“force multipliers,” “with your shield or on your shield”) and frame their cultural critiques with religious and philosophical references, blending realpolitik with theological and ideological context.

Conclusion

Episode 4966 of Bannon’s War Room is a strategic overview of political and spiritual battlegrounds for 2025, with “empathy” identified as the latest front in efforts to fracture the evangelical base and dilute conservative resolve. Through calls to action, ideological diagnostics, and inside scoops from Capitol Hill to the Pentagon, Bannon’s camp urges their audience to engage, resist, and hold leaders—both political and ecclesiastical—accountable to conservative principles and truth.

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Transcript

Steve Bannon (0:02)

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going.

Steve Bannon (0:10)

Medieval on these people.

Steve Bannon (0:12)

Reasons I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people, the people have had a belly full of it.

Garrett Galile (0:18)

I know you don't like hearing that.

Steve Bannon (0:20)

I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.

Jack Posobic (0:24)

And where do people like that go.

Steve Bannon (0:25)

To share the big lie? MAGA MEDIA I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

Steve Bannon (0:34)

Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

Jack Posobic (0:44)

War ROOM here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

Steve Bannon (0:52)

It's Tuesday 2nd December in the year of our Lord 2025. Big day. Cabinet meeting at the White House, 11:30 press briefing at the Pentagon with our team of correspondents there led by Jack Posobic. At 11 we'll dip in and out of that. We've got a lot going on, turning points, going to join us about what's happening in Indiana on, on Friday. But I want to turn first to Matt Van Epps, the combat veteran, army combat veteran that is running in Tennessee 7. It's game day. Matt, tell us what we got to do. Deploy your resources here.

Matt Van Epps (1:23)

Sir, yes, sir. Steve, thank you so much, sir for having me. On election day here in Tennessee 7th congressional district, I need everybody to get out and vote. We are up. We had a great early voting result, but we're not up by a lot. And we need to win this. And that happens when everybody gets out and votes today, every Republican, every freedom loving American in the Tennessee 7th congressional district, polls are open now. They close at 7pm if you're in line by 7pm you can vote. They've got to let you vote. And just asking everyone to get out. We need you today. This is too important of an election. We were, I was on with President Trump last night on a tele rally with tens of thousands of callers and he was underscoring how important this election is for the direction that we want to move the country. So I need everybody today and I'm so, so grateful to be on with you today.

Megan Basham (21:37)

But yes, so we talked about it because this has really been the steering mechanism to try to move evangelicals toward the left. We talked about last time that they are kind of the most important voting block to Republicans. The GOP doesn't win without them to. So you've seen Democrats for a long time trying to find a way into the evangelical landscape. And empathy has been a key way that they've done that. And you know, the difference between empathy and compassion is really important because empathy demands that we don't ask questions, that we don't look at issues of justice in these truth claims, that we don't even look at the truth of these truth claims. And you can look at how the BLM movement, for example, said you, you're not allowed to ask questions. You're just supposed to sit and let us express ourselves and feel our pain. So you weren't allowed to ask questions like, okay, well, did George Floyd actually die because someone choked him or did he die of an overdose? So those questions aren't allowed. That's the empathy steering mechanism. It's a steering wheel on your back, as my friend, the writer Joe Rigney has said. So now we are starting to see the right and Christian conservatives catching on to this. And so you have seen books like the Sin of Empathy or Ali Beth Stuckey's Toxic Empathy, saying, no, this is actually sinful because what it's asking you to do is to identify with false or immoral feelings, like, say, the transgender movement. So that's what it's asking you to do. And, you know, just in this last week, we saw an appalling example of this. So we talked also last time about the national association of Evangelicals. It's the largest association of evangelical churches in the world. Their immigration arm is World Relief. They have taken something like $330 million from the federal government since 2021 to resettle, quote, unquote, refugees. In 2021, they took 56 million to resettle refugees, and including those from Afghanistan, including the shooter of those two National Guards people. So the day before that shooting, President Trump announced that there would be additional vetting. So he announced a while ago there would be additional vetting of the Afghani refugees. The day before that, World Relief issued a statement condemning that decision. And in fact, their vp, Matthew Sorens, who is heavily active in evangelical churches, you will see him often on the weekends, he giving presentations. They send materials out to churches saying, you must welcome the stranger. He called it a needless re traumatizing of the Afghani refugees. The very next day, the Afghan terrorist killed two National Guardsmen. So that's how this empathy debate is working within the church.

Megan Basham (30:40)

Well, you know, the first one, and this is not just to plug my book, but I do go into this in Shepherds for how evangelical leaders treated the truth for a leftist agenda. And that was a very key piece of it, this empathy debate. Because when my book came out, the two subjects I was probably most attacked on were, one, how could I go after World Relief and these immigration NGOs that were supposedly doing all this Christian work all over the world? How could I explain, expose those people? That was so unchristian. And then the other one was the Title 9 abuse issue. They were attacking me for saying, well, wait a minute, we need to investigate the truth claims of these women, adult women who are claiming that they were abused when they had relationships with adult men who were supposedly in some sort of power over them. So, you know, the first thing I had to do through that was simply say, I'm not moving. These are the facts, I'm laying them out. And when the mob comes, and sometimes it will, you, you simply cannot move. But what you can take comfort in is knowing that eventually the truth is going to come out and a whole lot of people are suddenly going to pretend like they were on your side all along. Because that's exactly what I've experienced in the evangelical world. Now, in terms of being the lone bulwark, something that's really important to know is that the evangelical rank and file are much, much more conservative than their leadership class. And that's consistent whether it's the Southern Baptist Convention, the Presbyterian Church in America, the Anglicans, you just see it again and again, leadership class, much more liberal. And that's because they're being inculcated in these things like the empathetic discussion in their seminaries. So they're bringing this into their churches and it has had some effect, but, you know, it takes time to trickle down into the pews. And so, you know, the second thing I want to say is what we're seeing right now is what I'm terming the great rehab tour. So all of these evangelical luminaries who head seminaries or who are, you know, internationally known pastors, big, best selling authors, they're now trying to pretend that they were never over there promoting Black Lives Matter or they were never over there promoting MeToo movement and things like that, the immigration movement. What, what I want is that unless there is repentance, we can't let this great rehab tour happen because they will do it again. There needs to be accountability. And so while I'm not here, you know, trying to be a lady defarge, trying to insist that everybody's head has to come off, I'm not saying that. I am saying if they do not recognize their error, then, no, they don't get to keep their platform and their audience. You should still continue not giving money and attention to those people. So, you know, that's a big component for me, is that if you showed in the day of battle that you were going to bend the knee, then you no longer get to be trusted as a leader. You should no longer get to occupy that leadership role in our movement. So now that things have started to shift, right, and the Overton has moved, they're all kind of scrambling to get at the front of the line again. And I don't want to allow that. You know, there's a few who have openly said, I erred, I was wrong. I got caught up in a moment. I'm a little more charitable with those guys. But if they're just simply trying to reposition without any acknowledgment of how they participated in. In this Black Lives Matter madness, in this insistence that to love our neighbor or to welcome the stranger meant that we had to accept our own destruction, then, no, I am not willing to continue to let you be the voice and the face of evangelical ideas.

Jillian Barbary (47:29)

Thank you, Steve. This is the most important time of year. As you know, a lot of people go through debt throughout the year, right? Living paycheck to paycheck, not saving up. You know, a lot of people like to buy gifts throughout the year. I've always thought, how do you do that? But it's actually a brilliant idea. I could never do that. So what done with that will do. And if you're in this position right now and you're thinking, how can I save a little money for my kids? How do I put a little aside for an emergency? In my case, I had a lot of things. I had, you know, death and taxes at my door and cancer and all of that. And that happens to a lot of people. Believe it or not, but this time of year is also sort of DEFCON 5. We are running around trying to figure out how am I going to pay the mortgage or the rent, how am I going to pay the kids school and also, Chris, Christmas gifts or Hanukkah, whatever it is that you celebrate. So what done with debt will do for you. And they will do it immediately, overnight. And if you are in this position, I suggest you go to donewithdat.com if you're in the position of nasty phone calls at dinner, non stop mail, oh, they can send mail letter after letter. Go to donewithdat.com right now. Free consultation. They'll shut them up right in their place. All the nasty letters stop overnight, the phone calls as well. And what they do, they don't want to put you into bankruptcy. They don't want to put you into one big umbrella, right? Consolidated debt. They're going to try to get you out of this in a way that you could actually end up with money in your pocket. And some people do, but you have to talk to them first. They are a team of master negotiators, Steve. I've worked with them now for three years. They are nothing but the best of the best. They know all the institutions to talk to. They know the pennies on the dollar, who will write off what, who will, you know, go for pennies on the dollar. And what, what, what, what ideas they have, they'll bring to them. They know exactly what these people are offering, but they can negotiate with them.