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Episode 5023: WarRoom Christmas Day Special 2025 cont.
Episode 5023: WarRoom Christmas Day Special 2025 cont. ...
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A
Foreign.
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B
Okay, welcome back. It is the 25th of December in the year of our Lord 2025. A Thursday. It's Christmas Day, or to be exact, Christmas morning. Patrick K. O' Donnell having lost everything, having tremendous pressure, in fact, I think the Continental Congress had already were no longer sitting in Philadelphia. I think they went down to Annapolis. They got out of town because this thing was looking bad and the British said they were going to hang, they were going to hang every, every, everybody that signed the Declaration. In fact, there's a procureful story, I don't think it's ever been totally verified that one of the signers of the Declaration, I think from New Jersey had already renounced the Declaration. I think he had been captured. They run up on him a string of defeats. Tremendous pressure on General Washington. If it had been really a rival around, they might have even traded him out. Of course, his rival was captured by the British. One catastrophic defeat after the other. But he still got an army of three or four thousand men. But they're in bad shape. They've been fighting constantly in a retreat and not a rout in a retreat for like three months. They get, they get across the Delaware. Walk me through the plan. How does Washington come up with this plan, which is really what I call a throw of the iron dice of war.
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A
As you mentioned, Steve, the Crown has seized New Jersey and they are now offering the population an oath of allegiance. If they sign the oath of allegiance and they sign their fealty to the Crown, you know, all will be forgiven. And even a signer of the Declaration of Independence does sign that. But it's. The tides of war are really shifting. And with it, the political climate has shifted too, where there's real doubt that the Revolutionary War can be won by the United States at this point. And Washington knows that he has to stake everything on a single operation that will somehow turn the tide of battle. And it's at Trenton. The British have a number of small outposts across New Jersey to hold the ground that they've just seized. And the problem is they've got these little outposts and they are supposedly interlocking in terms of the way that they're able to be quickly. If one is attacked, they can, they can redirect their forces in a quick reaction force to support the other. But Trenton is a little bit more vulnerable. And despite that, British intelligence picks up that the, that that Washington will attack Trenton within the next few days. And Johann Rawl is warned and he is constantly under attack by small militia and other forces. He's been harassed for the last several days. And what happens is on Christmas Day, there is a massive nor'. Easter. Again, think about.
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B
But, but hang on. But hang on, hang on, hang on a second. I want. Why would. What were the circumstances. I want to put people inside of Washington's head. Why did he decide to do. One of the hardest things to do is a force cross of a river at night that is armed on the other side. Now, he didn't realize it wasn't going to be the activity. He didn't realize there was going to be a lack of activity until they got to Trenton. But when you're planning this, you're rolling the dice to do a cross with an army that's been beaten and is still underfed and cold, to cross the Delaware, to. To get to the other side to do a night attack on these mercenaries that are supposed to be even tougher than the British Army. Did he believe that if he didn't show at least some momentum with enlistments running out, things like that, that the army would just fall apart? That he had to do something. He had to. He needed something. Victory begets victory. You needed something. Men needed something to hang onto, that The Continental Congress down in Annapolis needed something to hang onto that they had nothing. And if they went through the Christmas season and started the new year and we're still just freezing in. In. In Pennsylvania, that it'd be over. Because it's really one of the most audacious moves in the history of this country. Because the odds of this succeeding were incredibly long. I mean, you're banking on a lot of things going right. And as you said, oh, by the way, when they get ready to cross, they had another northeastern hit them and hit them hard.
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A
This is. The odds of this thing are extraordinary on so many fronts, Steve, because, for instance, if everything just sort of went normally, for instance, and they had a regular battle and the British were able to. Or the Hessians were able to retreat, it would have been sort of a nothing burger. But it's a catastrophic double envelopment which basically captures almost all of Rawls forces. But let me just go backwards a little bit and just walk everybody through sort of the things that take place on Christmas Day. There's a massive nor'. Easter. Washington loves complicated plans. He divides his army into three parts to cross the river. The only part that gets across the river are the forces under John Glover's command, and that is the main. The force that's taking the main force across. Everything else fails because the river is filled with ice. It's a raging torrent. There's a nor', eastern, you know, howling and pelting the men. All the other efforts to cross fail the first effort, that effort with the Glover. They cross, they're about 12 miles north of Trenton. And then they have to somehow stealthily get to Trenton without Johann Rall knowing that they're coming. And it's here that there's another really extraordinary coincidence that occurs. It's in the middle of the night that Washington comes across several company of riflemen that are on the other side. And he's absolutely dumbfounded that these men are there. And they're there because they make, according to most theories, they make a revenge attack because they lost some men on an earlier raid, they should have never been there under Adam Stevens command. And they make the raid and they suddenly find Washington's men. Many people believe that in this raging snowstorm that it's that militia, those militia company, those riflemen that Johan Raw believed was the attack. And then they basically are dispersed by the, the Hessian soldiers. And it's, it's that it's, it's that belief that they, they, they already overcame the attack and that they also, nobody would attack in the middle of a Nor Easter. And it's this that screens Washington as he trudges down the 12 miles. And at daybreak or a little bit after, they attack Trenton and they surprise Johann Ralf who then puts up really a tough fight. They move a number of guns in place and he rallies his men. But in this battle, a number of prongs of Washington's main force break out. And John, the one force under Glover is able to seize the Assen Peak Creek, the vital Creek bridge that would allow Johann Rall to escape. Instead of a situation where It's a typical 18th century battle where they fight and then if one side feels that they have an advantage, they will retreat. Johan Rall did not have an opportunity to retreat because he also receives a rifleman's bullet to, to his. That mortally wounds him. And his escape route is, is basically is, is snuffed out by the marble headers. And it's an overwhelming victory for, for Washington. But it's only one. How is this 10 crucial days that are put together.
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B
There are two more and hit. Give me, give me the two more victories quickly because I want to get to the overall picture. But they get momentum right then, right. Tell me about the other two victories.
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They get momentum, but what Washington does is then crosses back across the Delaware. He's he's got about 900 Hessian soldiers along with their cannon and arms. He's like, I'm going to sit back. I'm going to savor my victory. But what happens is one of those other forces under John Cadwallader. These are the Philadelphia Associators. These are a militia group in Pennsylvania. They cross without orders because they still think that they're supposed to attack Trenton. And now what happens is there's a force of about 2,000 militiamen on the other side and the local militia in New Jersey uprise because of the great victory at Trenton. And Washington is faced with decisions. He ordered Cadwalader back. Does he reinforce him? And he reinforces him at Trenton, which a week later sets up the showdown for the Second Battle of Trenton or the Battle of S and P Creek. And it's another situation, Steve, where they hold a bridge at all costs. I tell the story in Washington's Immortals and the Indispensables. It's one of the great untold stories of the American Revolution. If they break through and they seize the bridge, they surround the army, the Revolutionary War is over for all intents and purposes, but they hold the ground. And then Washington rolls the iron dice once again and attacks Princeton and overwhelms the garrison there. Part of the 10 crucial chase that will change world history forever.
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B
And the momentum of the revolutionary that it start. It started with just the boldest gamble of all time. It got left. I want to start in Annapolis about the thinking on Washington changed dramatically. But also in London and also in the British army because they thought we were pretty hapless. And then they saw this incredibly, not just bold initiative, but the combat, really tenacity of the troops. Let's start Annapolis. How did the Continental Congress attitude to Washington at least change?
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A
For a while they were there. There was a sense of this overwhelming victory. And it spreads. It takes time because you've got an ocean to deal with, where there's a massive lag in time, where eventually it does reach Europe. And it has a seismic impact on world leaders that are suddenly looking at the American cause as something that's winnable. The French, in particular, Spanish others are looking at this as. And saying, wow, this is amazing what these. These Americans are able to do. And it's another step towards an alliance and more aid from foreign powers. But it's a shift in momentum. And the British are scared.
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B
No. Because the 12 days. That 12 days. You're right. It's just incredible. As we go to break Christmas, Washington very specifically chose Christmas. Why did he do that, sir?
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A
He won. It's, he wants to. It's the element of surprise. It's sort of the ultimate element of surprise that there's a thought that nobody would attack at Christmas. Right. The British themselves, they go into winter quarters like most European armies as the winter strikes. There's, there's a real critical shortage of forage. For instance, this is the, the thing that's, this is the gas that, that powers the, the 18th century. You've got horses and wagons and, and they have to move cannons around and everything else. So forage is scarce. It's hard to conduct warfare if you're a European army during the winter. So they go into winter quarters and it's, they want to consolidate their gains and just basically hopefully wear down the Americans. When in the fact it's the Americans that are wearing down the great empire.
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B
Were the Hessians. Lore has it that the Hessians, as Germans are want to do on Christmas, were pretty under the, under the weather with grog, with, with adult beverages. Is that true? Were they particularly Rawls, were they all drunk?
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No. What you see is, it's a myth. In fact, Rawls troops are some of the best troops in the, in the British army. They're trained. They're in their uniforms that night. They're with their, their, their muskets and they're armed to the, you know, as much as they can be. And they've just been, they're in the ready, if you will. But that, but they've been worn down by all these little raids that have taken place and they're constantly going out and chasing the Americans. So there's a little bit of a lag that that occurs because they think that the militia that attacked earlier may have been the main effort that, that they were, that they, the British intelligence had predicted would occur. And then also the snowstorm itself, I think wells their fears of an American attack thinking almost nobody would attack in this massive snowstorm. Nor'. Easter.
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Patrick, hang on for a second. We're taking a. Going to take a short commercial break on Christmas Day in 2025 as we relive the combat history of American troops in Christmases past short.
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If you could make one holiday wish, would you wish to be free from your credit card and other debt? Let's see if we can help you with that. If we could give yourself one gift.
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B
This holiday season, would it be finally to get some relief from your credit card and other debt?
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C
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B
Okay, welcome back. Combat History of Christmas. And we got Patrick K. O' Donnell with us. Patrick, first off, real quickly, the first two books you find out about the Revolution, Washington Immortals, about this incredible regiment from Maryland and the Indispensables. Where do people go to get those? Those are two massive bestsellers. We were very proud of being part of the effort to drive the sales of both of those. Audience love the feedback I got was tremendous. You give talks all over the country. Where do people go to get those books?
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A
Those books, you can get them in any bookstore. Pretty much. Barnes and Noble is probably the best place. They feature the book where Amazon.com is a. Is a great place to get it as well. The, you know, the book the Washington's or the Indispensables is almost approaching 2000. It's all five star reviews on that book and the other one has got.
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B
Four and a half stars.
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A
Almost. Yeah, almost 2000 as well.
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B
Five. Five. And the five star reviews are so hard to go. Okay, I'm gonna go. We got the Civil war, World War II and, and the Korean War to get through for the restroom. We're going to do it. I want to go unvanquish your book on the Civil War. Unbelievable. Tell me about the combat history of Christmas as shown in the Unvanquished. Of course you had a piece up on Breitbart about this. Tell me about it.
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A
Well, the Unvanquished is really one of my finest books. It'll give you a different view of the American Civil War. It really captures three stories. It's the. The main story on that is the Jesse Scouts or Lincoln Special Forces who haunted the South's most dangerous men. And that would be John Singleton Mosby and the Confederate Secret Service. And it's the story of those three units really converging. And the piece that I wrote to Breitbart is about the death of Blazer's scouts, which occurs in a forgotten field in Mystown, West Virginia, which is right along the Potomac near the Virginia border. And it's here that these forces clashed. And the main. The first Blazers Scouts or the Jesse Scouts, with an element of the Jesse Scouts, they formed the first hunter killer teams to go after Mosby. And these guys were total badasses that were very, very effective as a part of partisan hunters. But they were modern in the sense that they weren't using like a blowtorch. They were using intelligence to gather, you know, tactical intelligence to go after their partisans where they needed to go after them. And they were going after Mosby with the latest weapons, the Spencer repeating carbine, for instance, and rifle. But at Myerstown, at a forgotten field, farmers field, they clash. And Mosby's got three companies, and they basically lure them into a trap. And as Mos's men feign a retreat off the field, Blazer's men, who are about to dismount, are about to then remount their horses and then pursue. And at that point, a massive. They are enveloped by most of these men. And they are in a open field, which is a. It's a giant gun battle on horseback in this forgotten field in Mystown in West Virginia. And it's one of the great untold stories of the Civil War. This field, for instance, is now going to be a solar panel farm. They've never done an archaeological survey. They've never marked it. Pretty much the one of the only places it's ever been written about is the unvanquished. But it's here that the leader of Blazer Scouts is running for his life along with these Jesse Scouts. Many of these guys are dressed in Confederate uniforms, and they are pursued in a massive horse race by about 30 or 40 of Mosby's men on horseback with their pistols, peppering them, eventually capture Blazer. And what's important about the story is that the man that captures Blazer, one of them is Lewis Powell, who is John Booth, John Wilkes Booth's co conspirator. And what makes this important is that he is a member of the Confederate Secret Service and the unvanquished puts together a lot of connects many, many dots on the assassination. And the important thing being the kidnapping of the president. And I tell story there.
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B
The kidnapping that didn't take place. They tried. Jesse Scouts is named after one of my favorite characters in American history, Jesse Benton Fremont, who was General Fremont's the path. The great pathfinder. His wife, who was a hammer.
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Right.
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One of the greatest women in American history.
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Yes.
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Talk to me about the Christmas. Talk to me about the Christmas episode.
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Well, I mean, in a sense that it's. That there are multiple things that take place. The first being in 1862, which I bring about, which I bring into focus in the unvanquished is the great battle of Fredericksburg, Steve, which is a tremendous tragedy that, you know, they're hoping to end the war by Christmas and seize Richmond. And, you know Burnside, General Burnside, who has a bridge named after him in Antietam because it was a bloody affair there as one of the most brutal and devastating battles of the American Civil War.
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B
Hang on. We talked about Washington the previous that the Christmas Day of Trenton came about because he was under such pressure. He had to think of something outside the box and said, let's attack them on Christmas night when they're all going to be drunk and eating and celebrating Christmas. These Germans Christians will be taking the day off. We got attacked. The same thing happened really in Fredericksburg in that Antietam, although was a draw, Lincoln was under pressure, like, dude, this thing is a disaster. This is a fiasco. The Southern army is winning. The Times, the Illustrated Times of London. Every time you pick up the. It's like the Daily Mail today, right on the Internet. You pick up a thing. He's got a picture of. Of Stonewall Jackson or Robert E. Lee on the COVID All the European capitals are going, hey, this Confederate army is probably pound for pound, the best army we've ever seen. Lincoln is under tremendous pressure by the governors, by Congress, by everybody said, you gotta start booking some wins here. Right? And so that's why they do something that everybody argues against. You cannot go down and leave Washington on a direct line to Richmond. As entrenched as the Confederate army is with. With the type of leaders they have, and try to cross a river at Fredericksburg and try to beat the Confederate Army. I mean, it's a suicide attack, is it not?
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A
Well, the biggest problem was they sort of telegraph where they're gonna go. And, oh, by the way, the pontoons that they need to use to span the Rappahannock, they don't show up for eight to 10 days, and then they dither away until December 11, where they finally decide to put the pontoons together and cross. And then Confederate sharpshooters and snipers are pelting them. They delay them again, and it's not until really the 13th of December that they make the attack. Meanwhile, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, they have time to build up their defenses, and they have really, one of the greatest defenses in the Civil War, which is behind a stone wall and a sunken road at Mary's Heights, which, oh, by the way, is really just a diversionary attack. The main effort being a place called Prospect Hill, which is five miles down the road down the line. But it's an absolute fiasco, especially the diversionary attack, which consumes about 16 brigades. You know, 30,000 men attempt to storm the stone wall and are basically annihilated in one way or another by the, you know, the rifled musket, which can now reach out and touch you. And there's no cover at all before that stone wall, in fact, several hundred yards.
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B
The Confederate Army. I mean, even members of the Confederate army, when the Irish brigade and others attacked over that open field, were saying, this is not even war. This is just a slaughter pin. It was. Of all the bloody. I mean, you had so much blood spilled to that time at Shiloh and other places people considered Fredericksburg. So one of the reasons it's not talked about is that Lincoln and his team did not want the Northern media to cover it because it was the type of thing that people were throwing the towel right after that. Is that not correct?
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A
It's true. I mean, and then it's just. It's a. It's a victory for the. The. I mean, the. The south holds. They have a. They do it in the cheap effectively, in the sense that anything that went up against that stone Wall was like 8 to 1 odds that, you know, the men that were valiantly storming that wall, but they were. They were slaughtered, as you mentioned, in front of that field, which has no ground. There's a. There's a small swale where many of the men were hunkered down behind, but there's really very little cover. And then you have the guns. There's Confederate artillery atop the hill itself that are firing down upon them, as well as the rifled muskets from behind the stonewall.
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B
Many of the. If you read the memoirs of the leaders of the Union army, and I'm talking about not the senior leaders, but the combat leaders, the colonels the majors, the captains after the war. That was one of the hardest nights after that attack because they said the it felt like the earth was moaning. There were so many wounded soldiers out there, so bitter cold, they couldn't go get them. That it was just a horrible night to hear the agony of these soldiers before they died. And it left it really burnt into the soul of the Union Army. Exactly what a catastrophe this was. It was, it was a memory that just seared into the soul of the Union Army. It looked like a total just waste of manpower. Like you said up near that stone wall. I think it was 8 to 1 casualty ratio. But it shows you once again during some of the holiest times of our Christian calendar and during the times of what people think of families, we had some of the most horrible horrific combat. Let's take a short break. We're going to get in. You've got in your book on Vanquish. I can't recommend enough. The Jessie Scouts. This whole story of really America's real the beginning of the Special Forces of the United States. And for folks like if you're like me from the south and you've read about Mosby's Rangers in Colonel John Mosby, this is a different take on things. It's really very, very enlightening. The unvanquished from Patrick K. O' Donnell, the Battle of the Bulge and Chosin Reservoir. I mean think about the horrible fighting that's going over the Christmas season. Next we're going to go to World War II and the Korean War with Patrick K. O' Donnell short. Okay, welcome back. We're now going to go to the 20th century shows you this span's a pretty big part of time. 20th century we're going to go to. Which really happened six years apart, which I don't think people make that much connections between the Battle of the Bulge and Chosin reservoir. World War II towards the last year of World War II and the first year of the Korean conflict. Let's go first off to the Battle of the Bulge. One of the most famous battles. What it's known for is really the holding of Bastogne by the 101st Airborne Mose Division. Historic really made them legendary. But it starts off with really the 82nd Airborne. Let's see if we can get it all in in about eight minutes. Patrick K. O', Donnell, you wrote a great the book on this. You wrote an amazing book on this. What's the title of it?
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A
The title of that book is Beyond Valor. That really is the oral history of the rangers and the airborne in World War II. I started out with another book called Dog Company, though, that fights in the hurricane forest at Hill 400. And they oversee sort of the assembly areas and see what's going on. It's an epic battle. It's a bayonet charge up a hill and they have to hold the hill against all odds for three days, which they do.
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B
One reason I want people, one reason I want people, I want people to, I want people to understand this is that at this time towards when we're delivering the hammer blows to Germany and we're trying to cross the Rhine and try and get to the heart of Germany, just we're pouring troops in. And these troops are very ill trained. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, I think the biggest surrender wasn't an entire regiment that like surrendered virtually unharmed because just the leadership kind of collapsed because the intensity of what happened at the bulge and a lot of this was just from green troops that had 90, basically 90 days of kind of some de minimis training and then were just, they were just pouring troops in here right now because it was a slugfest between the Americans and the Germans on the Western Front.
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A
Well, what's going on here is, it's, it's December 1944, and it's, there's a, there's some that believe that the war could be won by Christmas. Germans are in full defeat. They're, they're, they're streaming back across the Rhine and they're advancing. But there's, there's problems with the Allies. They have supply problems, for instance. They're not able to pursue as quickly as they possibly can. But Hitler has other plans. It's a bold counteroffensive to somehow split the Allies. And he attacks in the quiet front, which is the Ardennes. And this is where in 1940, to attack France. This is where Hitler makes his bold gamble. And they go through the Ardennes and they split the French army here. And he thinks that history can repeat itself. And they strip many of the finest units, the Waffen ss, paratroopers and others, from the Eastern front and they secretly assemble them in front of the Ardennes forest. And they, you know, they, they realize that they, they suspect that the Allies have cracked some of their codes and they, they insist that all communications have to be done in paper. And much of the preparations is as stealthful as possible. And then the Allies make it a little bit worse because, for instance, the oss, the Office of Street and Services, is stripped from some of these Frontline armies. And so their eyes and ears are gone. And it's December 16th, the morning hours of December 16th, and a massive juggernaut of the German army led by the Waffen SS and the 1st Panzer army basically descends upon the sleepy Ardennes. And it's here that they have an overwhelming surprise. The weather is not cooperating with the Allies, and it's, it's wintry initially. And at this grounds, many of the, the Allies greatest asset, which is air power, they're able to. The Yabos, they call the Germans, the fighter bombers that can strafe armor columns are basically put on hold because of the weather and the, and the Germans are able to pursue an attack. And their goal is, is to reach the river, crossing the Meuse river and then push on to Antwerp and then thereby. That's the goal, to divide the Allies between the British and the Americans. And they have stunning initial momentum and many units surrender. But then there are small groups of men that hold out and they stop the ss. And the only real reserve that the Allies have of quantity is the 18th Airborne Corps. And it's the Airborne, the 82nd, 101st, and then later the 17th Airborne, which will be thrust into this vortex of battle. As the Waffen SS is quickly advancing towards these bridges, small groups of men like the engineers, combat engineers, mine bridges or destroyers, you know, trees to block their advance, but they're still moving forward at great speed. You know, within this battle space is the ss, or specifically special units within the German armed forces are disguised as, as Americans speaking American, changing roadsides, you know, creating mass confusion. And it's, it's here that the 82nd finds itself. First. They're, they, they move in a place called Warburmont around December 19th or so, and they are, they're quickly moving towards where the SS are trying to cross several rivers to get towards the Mus River. And they're near a place called Tropon and another place, um, That, that is just, it's just swarming with SS troops. I mean, one of my favorite stories is with the 504 Parachute Infantry Regiment led by Reuben Tucker. And these guys are the guys that went after the nine Mag bridge in a bridge too far. They are tasked with, with, with clearing out Chenault, which is a town that is swarming with ss. And they have dismounted. There's, you know, there's, there's Panther tanks, they have flak guns and all kinds of stuff. They're waiting for tank destroyers to attack. These guys say it's too dangerous. They're waiting for a, you know, artillery barrage to support the attack. They don't get any of that and they attack anyways. And these men take out several of the ss. They slow down the SS advance, which is absolutely critical. And then they position themselves in and around this territory and it's hand to hand combat with some of Germany's toughest troops. And, you know, they eventually there are massive reinforcements that are coming in from the Germans and they are. There's a decision that's made to pull back the 82nd by British General Montgomery, who's in charge of the northern shoulder at this stage, to shorten the line and to tidy it up, so to speak. Which is probably a good decision because many of these German units could have surrounded elements of the 7th Armored Division and others as well as the 82nd, which were still holding the line, which are really a critical role. And it's at this time the 101st comes in and they move into position at a place called Bascom, which is a crossroads town where multiple. It's called Road Octopus because there's so many crossroads, critical roads that are, that, you know, that span out from it. And they're joined by elements of tank destroyers and armor. And they basically have to hold the line at Bastogne. And after the 82nd basically stabilizes things and they, the Germans realize that they're not going to be able to reach the Meuse river, they then focus their attention on, on Bastogne itself and it's the 101st and then many of these other smaller units that make an epic stand. And it, you know, at this point also Patton's Army.
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B
Yeah, this is the famous one where Patton's, Patton's army, the 3rd army comes racing, what in 72 hours or 90 hours to save the. It's like Fort Apache. They're at Bastogne and completely surrounded, outnumbered, getting shelled, bombed. And Patton's army hurdles across really, really that part of Germany to relieve the 101st at Bastogne.
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A
Correct, Correct. I mean, it's worth pointing out that paratroopers are always surrounded. So this is not anything new for them in many cases. And they were willing to hold out. But it was a welcome sign when Patton's troops do break the siege. They were being air supplied at this time and they were really holding their own too. It's worth noting, along with the other elements of tank destroyers and armor and other sort of cats and dogs that were in Bastogne, they were holding. This is where the sort of the villages that were this is where the German.
- [38:37]
B
The Germans didn't want to. Figured they weren't gonna. Didn't want to annihilate these guys, so they gave them an opportunity to surrender. And I think it was the general that sent back a. At least in history, it's passed down as saying nuts about an unconditional surrender. But the lore has it he might have used more spicy terms term to inform the Germans. It's true that the 101st are going to fight. We're a standard fight.
- [39:02]
A
I I interviewed hundreds of paratroopers and Rangers that were in as well as their opponents, too. I'll put that point that out. The SS interview the SS and German paratroopers. But I interviewed General Canard, who is Henry Kennard, who was there right next to Anthony McCaul, who's the assistant division commander who was in charge of the 101st at the time. And his response is there was something to the effect that a word I won't use on the air, but the official response was one word, nuts. And they send it back to the Germans who are befuddled by this because they have an overwhelming force that has surrounded Bastogne. Because what happened is as the SS attack up north collapses, many of those units are then sent down towards Bastogne to crush Bastogne. Hitler wants a moral victory of destroying Bastogne in the 101st, in it as well as the other units.
- [40:06]
B
People have to remember that with Normandy and the landing in June of that year, there was a huge effort because the American people were getting tired of this war and the casualties were mounting. There's a big pressure to end the war by Christmas, the Christmas of 1944, in fact, if you've seen a bridge too far, that whole effort of Market Garden to take those bridges in Holland and get to the Rhine quickly was all targeted to end the war by Christmas. And of course, that wasn't going to happen. And you saw the Christmas season fighting at Bastogne. People realized that the Germans, although they're tied up on the Eastern front and getting bombed every day, the Wehrmacht had a lot of fight left in them. Patrick People realized this was going to be tough, and of course, we finished it in May of the following year. But folks realized that this is going to be tough every day.
- [40:54]
A
The Battle of the Bulge lasts almost a month. Steve it goes well into the second week of January, and it's one of the bloodiest battles for America in World War II. It's a tremendous 19,000 killed, you know, nearly over 85,00.0 casualties total. It's a. It's an incredible battle of. That was very tenacious and ruthless. And then it's also the cold, the cold weather. Many of the men are not properly equipped to deal with the cold weather. And almost all the veterans I interviewed had frostbite either in their. Their, you know, their hands or their. Your feet from. From battling in the battle of Bulge.
- [41:40]
B
Amazing. Incredible. That book, again, is what I want to make sure people get access to that. Give me your books on the.
- [41:46]
A
That book is on the Bulge is Beyond Valor. It's an oral history of the men that I interviewed, as well as a bit of a narrative history. It ties all the stories of the Bulge. And then Dog Company is a band of brothers on Dog Company, 2nd Ranger Battalion, the boys of Point. Ah. And their story all the way through.
- [42:05]
B
Hang on.
- [42:06]
A
The liberation of Europe.
- [42:08]
B
We're Put them all up and get them all out. Hang on one second. We're going to come back. We got the Chosin Reservoir to finish up. Christmas Day here or Christmas morning actually in the war room. Back in a moment.
- [42:39]
A
Okay.
- [42:39]
B
Welcome back, Christmas Morning. Want to thank you for being with us on our traditional combat history Christmas done to show the American sacrifice during this, you know, most family Orient holiest of seasons. Patrick K. O', Donnell, your book, Give me the Chosin Reservoir, the Marines and army elements. But man is one of the most moving of all your books, is the one that I think often sticks with you the longest, just given the suffering and honestly, the lack of preparation these troops had. It's just incredible. The lack of material, the lack of clothes, the weapons. It's horrific. Talk to me about Christmas 1950 in the. In the Chosin Reservoir, sir.
- [43:24]
A
All the books I've ever written have found me. This one is a classic. I got back from Iraq and I was alone. I told my family not to show up. I just didn't want to. I had a lot to deal with, illusion, everything else. And these old men came up to me and said, well, who are you? And I said, who? I was a combat historian, said, we were George Company, three one in the chosen reservoir, and we held a hill against a Chinese regiment of about 2,000 men. And this is a company of 200. And the next thing I know, they're like, would you like to go to lunch? Said, sure, you need to come to our reunion. And I said, no problem. And the next thing I know, I've got a book that give me tomorrow, which is really a band of brothers on the Korean War, which is an untold story until this time it was an epic one. And it's Christmas 1950, Steve. And the 1st Marine Division is in, near the Chosun Reservoir in North Korea. It's not far from the Chinese border. And the Marines know that the Chinese are active and around them and you know, the last weeks of, of around Thanksgiving, the Chinese army of 120,000 or more of Mao Zedong's so called volunteers descend upon elements of the 1st Marine Division. And it's really one of the greatest stories of the Marine Corps of how the 1st Marine Division is surrounded. And as they like to say, they were advancing in a different direction and they basically, in many cases they really tear up the Chinese forces that overwhelmingly they have all the odds on their side. I mean, they're, in some cases it's a 10 or 20 to 1 advantage of numbers that the, the Marines are facing. And the men of George Company really have a truly epic story. They're under the command initially they were one of the units that was under Chesty Polar at a, at a small mountaintop type, small hamlet called Coterie. And the main 1st Marine Division base was a place called Hager Ree, which was several miles down a road, which it was a valley. And the, the Chinese had a division of troops on the heights of that valley and they had to go down the road. And something called Task Force Drysdale was organized by Chesty Puller. And the task force commander was a Royal Marine by the name of a Royal Marine Commando by the name of Drysdale. And the George Company along with a company of tanks were put in the front of this long column of trucks as they had to break into Hagaru Reid. And they were faced immediately by thousands of troops that were trying to destroy the task force as it was moving up the road. And it was a against all odds kind of battle that these reinforcements were absolutely critical to holding Haggard Reed. And the reason why that is important is because this is the consolidation point where all of the wings of the 1st Marine Division as well as army elements will consolidate and move towards the coast, towards safety. And they have to break in to Hager Reid. And it's up this long road called Hellfire Valley that, you know, it's 20, 30 degrees below zero, Steve. The wind chill makes it such. The men are, you know, not properly clothed, just like the Battle of Bulge and they are fighting for their lives. My first, my main, the main character in my book is a tough Vermont, New Hampshire native name Rocco Zulu. Sergeant Rocco Zulu, who was a, you know, A star. He won a Silver Star at Pelon. He had to train these men which had no training at all. They were reservists. Many of the men in the book. It's, it's shocks many people. They'd never gone through boot camp as marines. They were just reservists. They therefore did not receive boot camp training. And they literally had to. To learn how to fire M1 Garands and throw grenades on the ships as they were going through towards 1st Incheon where they have the great counter offensive that turns the tide against the North Koreans and then later at Chosin Reservoir. But these men come together and really have an amazing fighting unit. It's Rocco zulu that's on a.50 caliber machine gun on a truck. As they move towards Agrari and they come across a tent that is. They think they're greeted by friendly Americans. It's actually Chinese soldiers that are dressed in American uniforms. And they fire upon Zulo and he gets around in the chest. I'll never forget. I'm interviewing his at his place in New Hampshire. And he pulls up his shirt. He's like, yeah, it's the mirroring screen. His whole chest. Side of his is. His torso was blown out by the rifle bullet. And they believed that their leader was dead and he put him on a pile of dead bodies.
- [48:48]
B
We've got, we've. We've gotta, we've gotta bounce. But where do people go get the book?
- [48:55]
A
Amazon.com I'm on X and getter at. @ Combat Historian. The book's the bestseller. You can get it anywhere. Barnes and Noble or, or any bookstore, pretty much. And my.
- [49:10]
B
Wife. I want to tell the story. They go by, they go by these troops and they ask this young guy what he wants for Christmas and.
- [49:17]
A
What is his answer to give me tomorrow. And that's the photo on the. It's one of George. The members of George Company. Famous photo taken by David Duncan. And he gave me permission to use it for the COVID of this book. It's. It tells. It's a photo that's just that captured the entire chosen.
- [49:37]
B
Reservoir. What do you want? All those troops? Give me. Give me two more Patrick Battalion of Chinese. Thank you very much. Merry Christmas, Patrick K. O'. Donnell. Appreciate you doing it. Appreciate you doing it, sir. Thank you. And for the war room posse, have a great rest of the Christmas Day. Enjoy it with your family and we'll see you back here. Raheem will be here tomorrow on Boxing Day. I'll be back on Saturday. See you.