Episode 5029: What Is Really Happening With Ukraine Negotiations

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bannon’s War Room – Episode 5029

Title: What Is Really Happening With Ukraine Negotiations
Date: December 29, 2025
Host: Steve Bannon | Guests: Jack Posobiec, Kurt Mills, Dr. Thayer, Rosemary Jenks, Mike Lindell, Harnwell, Philip Patrick

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Overview

This episode takes a comprehensive look at ongoing Ukraine-Russia negotiations amidst continued warfare, American foreign policy priorities, and the so-called "America First" approach amid entanglement in multiple global crises. The discussion delves into whether effective progress is being made in Ukraine peace talks, the U.S. role and commitments in the region, the emerging deals in the Middle East, and the broader implications for American security. Notable contributors provide insider analysis, critique American and European leadership, and connect historical strategy documents with present events. The tone is urgent, skeptical of U.S. interventionism, and fiercely critical of establishment politics, with repeated allusions to the failure of globalist and neoconservative agendas.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ukraine Negotiations: Real Progress or Stalemate?

• Bannon expresses skepticism about the efficacy of current negotiations—Trump’s massive diplomatic efforts seemingly yielding little with Russia holding the upper hand militarily.
  • Bannon: “I don't see this thing getting done with. And Zelensky is talking about he asked for a 50 year security guarantee, sir.” (07:47)
• Kurt Mills frames the war as now being Trump’s responsibility, with the administration heavily invested in a resolution, but hamstrung by Russian intransigence and European reticence.
  • “The Russians are fine with the war continuing...This is win, win [for Putin].” (04:31)
• Mills and Dr. Thayer agree the previous “28-point plan” was closer to ending the war, but was derailed by intervention from “the globalists.”
• Dr. Thayer forcefully argues against U.S. security guarantees to Ukraine, warning it risks nuclear entanglement and ties down U.S. resources at the expense of confronting China.
  • “A security commitment is a pledge...including a nuclear. Employing our strategic nuclear arsenal to advance the particular end. So making a security commitment to Ukraine means we're pledging...to use nuclear weapons for Ukrainian security.” (11:07)
  • “The PRC wins if we make this strategic commitment to Ukraine. And we lose.” (13:37)
• Zelensky’s ask for a 50-year security guarantee is seen as theatrical, with 15 years being little better—a trap to draw the U.S. into indefinite commitment.

Memorable Quotes

• Kurt Mills: “This war was, I think, a strategic mistake by Vladimir Putin, but he's recovered from it and they're slowly grinding territory and they're able to project power deep into this country...” (04:31)
• Dr. Thayer: “It's as dangerous as the blank check that Germany gave Austria Hungary in July of 1914 that allowed Austria to escalate.” (13:58)

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2. American Political Consequences & “America First”

• Bannon and Posobiec rail against what they see as U.S. prioritization of foreign interests over domestic ones, drawing frequent analogies with mass immigration and urban decline.
• Bannon asserts: “The eastern Russian speaking eastern border of Ukraine is, has nothing to do with the vital national security interests of the United States.” (06:17)
• The administration is accused of being distracted by foreign affairs, failing to wind down major wars, and being manipulated by the “globalists.”

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3. Inside the Political & Diplomatic Stalemate

• Kurt Mills reports on a new alleged Ukrainian drone strike on Putin’s residence, further entrenching Russian hardline negotiating stances.
  • “This looks like a potential 11th hour...gum in the works here...we are at an incomplete point on this deal...” (17:09)
• Discussion moves to whether U.S. or European leadership can fundamentally alter the stalemate, with consensus that Russia is unwavering and European countries are unwilling and unable to commit more.

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4. Middle East Dynamics & Netanyahu’s Agenda

• Netanyahu's visit to the U.S. is scrutinized: He seeks support for expanded operations in Gaza and positions American intervention as crucial to Israel’s interests.
• Turkish and Qatari roles are seen as undercutting Israeli ambitions and changing the regional power balance.
  • Kurt Mills: “...I think it's pretty clear for all the investment that Israel has put on Iran, meanwhile, sort of Turkish Qatari access has emerged that has checked Israel's ambitions in the region, and they're going to keep asking Washington to intervene on its behalf.” (31:07)
• Bannon and guests argue that the U.S. should resist automatic deference to Netanyahu’s demands, asserting that ongoing wars are now primarily useful for his domestic political survival.
  • Mills: “Netanyahu may be remembered as the greatest enemy of the Israeli people.” (34:39)

Memorable Quotes

• Bannon: “The Israel first crowd brought this on themselves. They've got a two state solution in Gaza with Qatar writing hundreds of billions of dollars and the Turks are going to provide security and they don't like that.” (24:35)

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5. The “Two Georges” Theory & Root Causes of U.S. Foreign Policy

• Jack Posobiec presents his “Two Georges” theory: U.S. foreign interventionism driven by George Bush (war) and George Soros (globalist money agenda).
  • “George Bush pushing the war and then George Soros, the money extraction…” (22:15)
• Reference made to the “Clean Break” memo (1996) as the foundation of neocon foreign policy, with regime change wars pursued not for American security but for Israeli aims.
  • Kurt Mills: “...this is a memorandum that was prepared for future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by Richard Pearl and David Wurmser...the Rosetta Stone of modern neoconservatism. Its goal…and the realm of course, was Israel.” (43:01)
• Posobiec draws throughlines from Iraq to Ukraine, critiquing “neocons” and the bipartisan foreign policy establishment.

Notable Exchanges

• Bannon: “Isn't a lot of this Israel first crowd just vehemently anti Catholic and anti Christian?” (25:08)
• Posobiec: “In our time, in times like this, we need to focus on the things that are higher than us, higher than our own interests, higher than our own self interests.” (26:14)

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6. Broader Geopolitical Picture: China, AI, and Economic Alarm

• Dr. Thayer and Joe Allen warn about neglecting China as the real threat, with U.S. involvement in Ukraine serving the PRC’s interests by diverting American attention and resources.
• The episode briefly touches on the rising importance of AI, referencing growing public and political concern about its social and psychological ramifications.
  • Joe Allen: “Child protection laws, laws that insist that the companies, when they know the AI systems are causing AI psychosis, that they simply pull the plug and stop it.” (48:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On U.S. Commitments:
  • Dr. Thayer: “A security commitment is a pledge by the United States that it will use all of its might if necessary, including a nuclear [arsenal]...making a security commitment to Ukraine means...we’re making Ukraine the 51st state.” (11:07)
• On Neoconservatism and Israel:
  • Kurt Mills: “This is American officials writing for a future Israeli prime minister and sort of monolithic Israeli prime minister. Highly unusual. Very weird. Definitely not the pure pursuit of US national interest.” (43:12)
• On War Fatigue:
  • Bannon: “President Trump's put in a monumental effort. I mean, he should get the Nobel Peace Prize just on what he's done to date…” (06:59)
• On European Attitudes:
  • Bannon: “The Italians, Meloni talks a good game, but she doesn't put any money up ever. None of them do. That's why the Russians look at this and think it's a joke.” (09:54)
• On Political Reality:
  • Harnwell: “This is a defeat for the America First movement for the reasons that we've been saying right from the beginning of this war…” (19:27)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:51 – Episode focus set: domestic priorities vs. foreign entanglement
• 03:16 – Immigration, domestic fraud, and parallels to foreign policy
• 04:31 – Kurt Mills’ opening analysis on the Ukraine situation
• 11:07 – Dr. Thayer’s warning on security guarantees to Ukraine
• 17:09 – Breaking news of possible Ukrainian drone attack on Putin’s residence
• 18:47 – Harnwell’s take on the “theater” of security guarantee durations
• 22:15 – Posobiec’s “Two Georges” theory introduced
• 24:35 – Discussion of Netanyahu's political maneuvers
• 31:07 – Kurt Mills on the regional power shift in the Middle East
• 34:39 – Mills on Netanyahu’s need for perpetual war
• 41:25 – Posobiec details the “Clean Break” and neocon strategy
• 43:01 – Mills contextualizes “Clean Break” and Israeli-American relations
• 48:19 – Joe Allen on AI and coming child protection laws

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Structure & Flow

1. Opening Rant from Bannon about the failures of America’s political establishment and the outsized interests of “globalists.”
2. Main Segment on Ukraine: Progress update, skepticism about negotiations, and deep dives into the practical impossibility of victory or exit under current leadership.
3. Security Guarantees Debate: Dr. Thayer breaks down the perils of extended U.S. commitments and shifting focus from real threats (China).
4. Breaking News: Reports of a possible Ukrainian drone attack on Putin; increased pessimism for near-term peace.
5. Middle East Conversation: Analysis of Netanyahu’s objectives, U.S.-Israeli relations, and the broader strategy of sustaining regional instability.
6. Meta-Level Analysis: Posobiec's "Two Georges" theory, “Clean Break” memo context, bigger picture of regime change as a through line across recent decades.
7. Broader Issues: Immigration, AI, economic instability—how all connect to American leadership’s choices.

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Tone & Takeaways

• Fiercely critical and combative, advocating for isolationism, skepticism of policy elites, and resistance to entangling alliances.
• Laments the co-opting of U.S. foreign policy by interests not aligned with core American needs.
• Calls for a moratorium or drastic reduction in foreign and domestic programs seen as corrupt or detrimental to ordinary Americans.

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For Listeners:

If you missed this episode:

• The Ukraine war remains deadlocked, with Russia holding the initiative and America faced with impossible choices and internal pressures.
• The push for long-term U.S. security guarantees to Ukraine is seen by the War Room as both pointless and dangerous.
• Netanyahu presses for U.S. intervention on multiple regional fronts, but may be losing influence even among allies.
• Broader context provided for how decades-old strategies and figures continue to drive policy today—often not in America’s benefit.
• Recurring argument for a renewed “America First” focus that avoids entanglements, closes loopholes for fraud, and refocuses on domestic security and prosperity.

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More Information:

• WarRoom.org
• TheAmericanConservative.com (for further writing by Kurt Mills)
• Human Events Daily (for Jack Posobiec’s “Tales of Regime Change” series launching at 2pm)

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Transcript

[Steve Bannon]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. There's not got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people, the people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.

[Jack Posobiec]

And where do people like that go.

[Steve Bannon]

To share the big lie? MAGA MEDIA I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

[Jack Posobiec]

War ROOM here's your host, Stephen K. Banner.

[Steve Bannon]

Monday, 29th December year of our Lord 2025 we're going to get to the Ukraine situation from yesterday in Israel today in a moment. Dave. Brad, you've got some other observations on this situation of American citizens interests being put first. Sir.

[Mike Lindell]

Yeah.

[Rosemary Jenks]

Most all this covered by Rosemary Jenks at Immigration Accountability Project. Iaproject.org Go support her. Right now, all political views are my own. But we made some big press in India a few weeks ago when we reported with your great podcaster, 72% of H1B visas in the world come from India, only 12% from China. There's a marker right there. And of that, 220,000 H1Bs are coming from one district, one processing center in Madras, India. That's three times the legal congressional cap. So we made some huge news there. I just want to do a few quick summary points on the Somalia thing. The one thing I haven't heard yet. First, Assistant U.S. attorney Joe Thompson said during a news conference that federal officials suspect a significant portion. New York Times A significant portion of the roughly $18 billion paid out by Medicaid to Minnesota programs was fraudulent. The Hill leads today with, well, there's a few millions. And you know, Nick Shirley's out there doing better reporting than the New York Times and the Hill and they're just deceptively covering it. Right? The press has been along this the whole time. Two more stats. One defendant in these cases submitted 1.4 million in fraudulent claims using some money to buy cryptocurrency. Next point, 80,000 Somalians, roughly in the Twin Cities, 85% language other than English overall. Bottom line point which Rosemary Jenks raised is this mass immigration project is over. We need to end it. We need an absolute moratorium for years. And people email in and say, oh, but I know this good person. And the Problem is the corruption and this mass fraud has hurt the innocents. That's what people don't get. You need a policy rule that solves this corruption because it's gotten so bad. And that, that 12 billion we're talking about, that's just in one state. Wait till you see the nationwide numbers that emerge from this scam.

[Steve Bannon]

Oh, this. Okay, remember, this is why they've got sanctuary cities. This is why they won't let. They go to court so that President Trump can't federalize the troops to protect ice. They're. They're adamantly. The hill they'll die on is the mass deportations, because that guts their political power. This is all about their political power. Dave, hang on for a second. You're going to stick with me. We've got a lot to go through. So let me bring in Kurt Mills first off, for the overview on Ukraine. Then I got Thayer and Ben with me. So, Kurt, just walk me through your. Because President Trump has put in a massive effort in clearly on this. I. I'm not sure when I hear the press conferences and all this back and forth. They keep saying it's close. I'm not sure what progress is actually really being made, because I then see the readouts later from the Russians and they're pretty adamant there's not going to be. They can't be any security guarantee, can't be any troops. They're pretty adamant about what they've got, and they're pretty dug in. And they keep shelling. I mean, over the Christmas holiday, the shelling of Kiev was about as bad as you got, and now they're shelling the port of Odessa. They continue to grind on. They say, absolutely, we will not do a ceasefire. We won't do anything. What's your overall assessment of what's really happening here?

[Kurt Mills]

Well, I think it's pretty tough. We're closing in about a year of President Trump's second term here, and this is now fair or not going to be remembered as Trump's war unless he can wrap this up. I think Trump is clearly invested in this. He brought them to his home, he brought Zelensky to the United States. Once again, he has his entire top cadre there, pretty much. But I think there's a genuine concern that either the administration or the President himself doesn't fully understand the brief here. The Russians are fine with the war continuing. This war was, I think, a strategic mistake by Vladimir Putin, but he's recovered from it and they're slowly grinding territory and they're able to project power deep into this country, as evidenced by this sort of savage attack on Kiev over the weekend. It was clearly a negotiating tactic and their demands are pretty hard line. Behind door letter A is a set of demands that they can live with. And behind door letter B is, is keeping the Russian war machine going, which is very tied into their economy and their entire social contract at this point. So from Putin's perspective, you know, two and a half years removed from the Prigozhin coup, this is win, win.

[Steve Bannon]

When we had the 28 points or whatever, were we really actually much closer to a deal before Marco and the globalists got involved here and then retorqued this? And my point is that we could walk away. You can't walk away from Minnesota and Somalia. You can't walk away from Chicago. You can't walk away from what Mondami is about to turn New York City into. That is the United States of America and our greatest cities. And they've turned it into, they've turned these into hellholes, which is a cash machine of how they generate it. And this is why we're having this event in Texas, because they're trying to do in Texas the exact same thing they've done in Chicago, they've done in Minneapolis, they're doing in New York. And this is why you end up with a Mandami, a guy from Uganda that's now the mayor, you know, a Marxist jihadist that now is the mayor of New York City. But you can walk away from Ukraine. The, the eastern Russian speaking eastern border of Ukraine is, has nothing to do with the vital national security interests of the United States. So our option here is just like, hey guys, we tried. President Trump's put in a monumental effort. I mean, he should get the Nobel Peace Prize just on what he's done to date. But the 28 point plan we had was closer to reality of something that could happen until Marco and the globalists got involved. And now we got, now we got Zelensky making up his own plan and showing up. I'm just not sure how much progress is happening. Particularly when you read the read of the Russians. It's pretty standard of what they're saying they're prepared to tolerate and they're not. And they've kind of won on the battlefield. And unless the Europeans are prepared to put in troops, money, arms of which none of them are, because they're all broke and they haven't funded their own defense for decade after decade after decade because they leaned on the United States to do it, So I don't really understand. I guess I don't know if it's performative or what, but I don't see this thing getting done with. And Zelensky is talking about he asked for a 50 year security guarantee, sir.

[Dr. Thayer]

Yeah.

[Kurt Mills]

As Congresswoman Green said over the weekend on the successive meetings between Netanyahu and Zelenskyy can we just do America for a little while? Look, the President is very interested in foreign policy and as far as I'm concerned, that's good for business for me personally. But it's clear that the administration in its first year was somewhat distracted by foreign affairs. And part of that has been their inability to wind down the the two major wars, one in the Middle east and one in Eastern Europe, that Washington is frankly a financier of. I think you're quite right. In the mid Autumn when the 28 point plan first came through, that was a set of demands that was pretty close to ending the war. And you could tell because one side was amenable and our side, the Ukrainians and the Europeans were pretty aghast. That means we are pretty close to the Russian understanding of what it would take to end this war, which is what it's going to have to be or else it's just going to be status quo and more and more militarism for the Ukrainian government in Kiev. And I think that's pretty clear. You know, Zelensky doesn't sound like a man who's really close to making a deal. He said that Putin is this evil person. Regardless of what you think of that, that's not how someone talks for the about to shake someone's hand unless there's something we don't know. And yes, you're quite Rubio, the Secretary of State is the ostensible chief diplomat of the United States. But he seems pretty averse to diplomacy. He's a hawk on Russia, Ukraine, he's a hawk on Middle Eastern issues and of course he's an uber hawk on this sort of Venezuela distraction. And so it's very curious why he's considered to be so competent when his core function diplomacy. We've seen a widening of these wars this year, not, not a narrowing.

[Steve Bannon]

I mean President Trump, look, he says, look, I want to stop the killing. And he's put so much time and effort in this. I do agree even look, you have to deal with the facts that you have. He was trying to wind down the kinetic part of the third World War and do it as rapidly as possible. But the reality the geopolitical reality, particularly in Ukraine, is that the Russians. The Russians have, you know, and they don't have a history of backing the tanks up and giving up territory that they took on the battlefield. That just happens to be a reality. And if the Europeans got something to say about it and do about it, then go with it. It's not that we're holding it back. If France has a lot of talk, they're broke. The Fifth Republic's about to collapse. Starmer's got no money, no troops, no arms. Germany's now heading towards a major financial crisis because of their nutcase cult like net zero carbon regime to de. Industrialize themselves. The Italians, Meloni talks a good game, but she doesn't put any money up ever. None of them do. That's why the Russians look at this and think it's a joke. The only thing the Europeans are gonna do is steal their money. The three and a billion dollars. And when that was finally when Hungary and Poland stood up and said we're not gonna do that because you do that, they said that's an act of war and they could come blowing up over here and we're not gonna have it. That got shut down. So hang on for a second. Just stay right there. Cuz I gotta ask you about Netanyahu. Dr. Thayer, you've got some issues with this thing of security guarantees. Just walk me through. You've got a couple of bullet points you think that people ought to be aware of. What do you got?

[Jack Posobiec]

Sure.

[Dr. Thayer]

Steve, great to join you. First point is that this is something the United States should not do. It's important to recognize what a security commitment is. A security commitment is a pledge by the United States that it will use all of its might if necessary, including a nuclear. Employing our strategic nuclear arsenal to advance the particular end. So making a security commitment to Ukraine means we're pledging, if it comes to it, to use nuclear weapons for Ukrainian security. We're making Ukraine the 51st state. And Ukraine is not the 51st state. It is not a strategic interest of the United States. So that commitment is dangerous in that respect and we shouldn't do it. We don't make security commitments lightly and we shouldn't do it in this instance. Moreover, it doesn't.

[Steve Bannon]

What. What?

[Mike Lindell]

Hang on.

[Steve Bannon]

What about. What. What about the. What. What about the. What about this issue of the timing on a duration you give a 15. Because right now the time at a 15. Zelinsky asked for 50 years. They're talking about 15 years. But a. A time limit on a security guarantee. What does that actually mean?

[Dr. Thayer]

Well, that's a lie. That's a pie crust. It's made to be broken. You don't say, I'll fight a nuclear war for you for 15 years, but 15 years in one day. I won't fight a nuclear war for you. Right. So the 15 years is just a stalking horse to make the commitment, get the commitment landed. So it's not in our interests. It's just the reverse. It prevents the US from improving our relationship with Russia because now we're tied to Ukraine for 15 years, purportedly, it's going to prevent any rapprochement with China. Second big problem with this is it ties us down to a new commitment at a time where we're hard pressed to deal with the threat from the prc. The center of gravity for our national security is the prc, the People's Republic of China. And this agreement allows really all of those who want to threat deflate. Right, Minimize the China threat and focus the threat on Russia, say that Russia is a threat to continue, that China is the strategic center of gravity for us. And we're supremely foolish not to see this at a time where Beijing is turning up the heat on Taiwan like it hasn't before with the new exercise, Peace Justice 2025. And the last point, Steve, is that this really is in the scope of our interest. The PRC wins if we make this strategic commitment to Ukraine. And we lose. Right. Xi Jinping is going to be dancing in the street if we do this, because the US will be occupied in a sideshow for US national security, and Russia is compelled to remain dependent on Beijing as a result of it. It's as dangerous as the blank check that Germany gave Austria Hungary in July of 1914 that allowed Austria to escalate. So look, we didn't, you know, Xi Jinping.

[Steve Bannon]

Sorry, that went. I tell you what, hang on, hang on a second. We're gonna get back to you. We're taking a short commercial break. Yes, the CCP is doing a massive live fire naval exercise, or I guess it's all hands on deck exercise, showing how they can envelop Taiwan even as we speak. In fact, Captain Fennell will be on tomorrow. We're going to break all that down, but just a little love tap from the CCP about the chip manufacturing Goliath that is Taiwan. Short break. Back in the warm in a moment. If you can make one holiday wish, would you wish to be free from your credit card and other debt? Let's see if we can help you with that. If we could give yourself one gift this holiday season. Would it be finally to get some relief from your credit card and other debt? I might have a solution. Here's why. Now's the time to make a move. This time of year, credit card and loan companies close out their books. They clean up pay past due accounts. They sell a write off the debt to clear their books. That means if you have credit card debt and unpaid bills, lenders may be more open to negotiating and settling your account before you're in. That means right now, and I mean right now, you may actually have leverage. And Done With Debt knows how to use this to your advantage. They monitor lender trends and understand the year end pressure on creditors. They used that timing to negotiate hard on your behalf. Now's the time to get out from under crushing debt and interest payments without bankruptcy or taking on new loans. Done with Debt goes to work for you. Month one with one clear goal. To reduce your total debt and leave you with more money every month. Get started now because your leverage may disappear at the end of the year. Chat with a done with debt [e-mail] that's donewithdebt.com donewithdat.com do it today.

[Rosemary Jenks]

Kill America's voice Family Are you on Getter yet?

[Mike Lindell]

No.

[Dr. Thayer]

What are you waiting for?

[Mike Lindell]

It's free, it's uncensored and it's where.

[Steve Bannon]

All the biggest voices in conservative media are speaking out. Download the Getter app right now. It's totally free. It's where I put up exclusive exclusively, all of my content 24 hours a day. Want to know what Steve Bannon's thinking?

[Jack Posobiec]

Go together.

[Rosemary Jenks]

That's right.

[Steve Bannon]

You can follow all of your favorites. Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobi and so many more.

[Kurt Mills]

Download the Getter app now.

[Steve Bannon]

Sign up for free and be part of the new pin. Welcome back. Kurt Mills, breaking news on Reuters. What do you got for us?

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, it appears the Russians are claiming that Zelensky and his military attempted a drone strike on Putin's residence. Not entirely clear which residence, of course. How many homes the Russian president has is a matter of some speculation. Regardless, the Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says this will change the Russians negotiating position down in Florida. So this looks like a potential 11th hour. You know, real gum in the works here. And you know, whether or not it's true, whether or not it was actually an act of extreme belligerence by the Ukrainians or the Russians are merely claiming as such, I think that sort of checks out, that we don't have we are at an incomplete point on this deal, which is that President Trump, for all of his efforts, is not going to get the Russians and the Ukrainians to agree to something, at least anytime soon, unless the facts on the ground really change. And look.

[Steve Bannon]

The Russians are pounding Kyiv and Putin keeps saying we're not going to have any ceasefire. And Zelenskyy in this crowd gives as good as they get sometimes. Like if they did this attack, they've been very aggressive in the drone attacks. But if this is even true, or close to being true, it shows you we have very little control over the situation on the battlefield. Right. Guys are just slugging it out and going to do what they're going to do. So, Harnwell, your thoughts on this? I know you as head of our international bure in the Eternal City, you keep your beady eye on this. What do you got for us?

[Harnwell]

Well, look, let's start off with the 50 year term limit, the ask on behalf of Zelensky, because I know that's what we've been discussing on the show so far. My view on that, And I think Dr. Thayer makes some valid points, especially on the idea that 15 years, which is what apparently the US is committed to, is only a token in order to shoehorn the US into this, and then it will obviously be ignored and extended further on. But my observation on this, to start off with, is that the whole 50 year thing, the whole thing is theater, Steve, as I see this, right, the 50 year thing was only ever a theater, a theatrical fake negotiation point so that President Trump could then sort of bring it down to 15 and then come back and say, look, what a great negotiation I've obtained for the American people. Of course, the war room audience knows that 15 years is appalling in and of itself. This is a defeat for the America first movement for the reasons that we've been saying right from the beginning of this war, from when Biden was in the White House, no one ever made the argument and attempted to explain what America's vital national interests are in this. And therefore, as an extension of that absence, 15 years to safeguard what American interest is the question that needs to be asked. Look, so that's the first point I would make about this. This is a defeat for the America first movement. The second point I would make is, I think that, you know, and I don't want to take too big a sweeping hit at my own side on this, but I get the impression somewhat, Steve, that folk in the administration are concentrating on the wrong election cycle. They're preening themselves the frontrunners in the administration for 2028. And they ought to be far more concerned about the midterms because at the present rate, the way things are going, President Trump is going to be impeached after the midterms, and that will obviously have a dynamic on 28. But let's talk about 28. I'm not going to mention the names. We all know who they are. Folk. Instead of pushing.

[Steve Bannon]

Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Full stop. I got so much. Got to get to. Just put a pin in. I'll come back to you on that. Jack Bosobic, what do you got for us, sir?

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, Steve, I hope you and all the war room posse had a wonderful, blessed Christmas. I know that we certainly did. Here at the Pozo household, we've been praying our rosary daily and we're making sure to keep all the demons at bay at this wonderful time of our Lord's coming to earth. Steve, every year at Christmas time, during this break, sort of, you know, when people aren't always going live at Human Events daily, we run a special series where we do deep dives. People remember the China Files from a couple years back. Then we did Chronicles the Revolution. We did Tales of the Christians last year. This year we're back again. We're going back to the foreign policy. This is what everyone asked us about. And what better time to do this? President Trump holding his meeting with Zelensky. The phone calls, multiple calls. Now we're hearing with President Putin meeting with Bibi Netanyahu today. What are we doing at human events? It starts at 2pm Eastern. Tales of regime change. Why has the US government and the US establishment embarked in these wars across the Middle east and Eurasia? What is driving it? What are the real factors that are behind all of these efforts? And we come up with a theory. Steve, I think you're gonna love this. We call it the theory of the Two Georges. This is our two Georges theory of American foreign politics. And here's how it goes. Foreign policy, you got George Bush and George Soros. So the theory of the Two Georges, George, this is something we developed as we were working on this because we go through today's Afghanistan, then we go to Iraq, then we go to Syria, and then we go to Ukraine. And for the neocons who've been very, very upset with me for the last week or so, buckle up, because we're gonna be discussing all of your work for the last 20 or so odd years, where you've been sending American Dollars and America's sons and the best of middle America to go and die in the sandbox. And we talk about the two Georges, George Bush pushing the war and then George Soros, the money extraction, the financial extraction and pushing the system of globalism, the system of LGBT agenda all the way across these areas. So Steve, this is something that the entire war room posse is going to want to lock into because as you watch these scenes play out President Trump holding these high stakes meetings, it will give you an understanding of the. And Trump understands all of this. Trump understands all of this indelibly. He knew all of the cast of characters at the time. This is one of the things and President Trump talked about the very first debate when he went after Jeb Bush. This was one of the things that animated him to get involved in politics in the first place when he saw the insanity of the Iraq war and the neocons pushing for it. That's why the entire war room posse needs to lock into this series Tales of Regime Change. And we've got great cast, subject matter experts, Joshua Lysik, Mike Benz even joins us.

[Steve Bannon]

Perfect. And that starts today at 2pm on.

[Jack Posobiec]

Starts today at 2pm human events daily.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay, can you hang on a second?

[Jack Posobiec]

Every day. And I believe we're talking to, talking about, get it up on the war room rumble page as well.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, no, no, no. We'll stream it as it comes across. So now that I got you and Kurt Mills is here, I want to talk about this afternoon. I think it's 4:30 and we're going to cover it live. Bibi's making, I don't know, his fifth trip to the White House or Mar a Lago to see the president. And we know where the Israel first crowd stands on this. And he's making his pitch once again for the Greater Israel Project. And now they've got a problem with Turkey providing guarantee. And look, I'm not a two state solution guy, but the Israel first crowd brought this on themselves. They've got a two state solution in Gaza with Qatar writing hundreds of billions of dollars and the Turks are going to provide security and they don't like that. And they're trying to unwind what President Trump's doing there. They're also, you know, maniacally focused on once again now it's ballistic missiles. They got to come with something else since they've already their one trick pony about the nuclear program is kind of President Trump ended that with the 12 Day War. But you were pretty viciously attacked. I mean, isn't A lot of this Israel first crowd just vehemently anti Catholic and anti Christian. Mark Levin attacking you for saying the rosary and showing your rosary at Turning Point. Doesn't that show just a vicious anti Catholicism and anti Christianity perspective of this Israel first crowd, Sir?

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, Steve, I don't know if he speaks for all of them, but I'll simply say this. The last week has taught me and confirmed for me more than anything else I think in my entire life the power of the Holy Rosary. And I've got mine right here. This is my brand new rosary which I received custom made. It's a Polish inspired rosary. So we've got Maximilian Kolbe, we've got St. Michael the Archangel as well. We've got Saint Pope John Paul II there. So, you know, really just an amazing custom rosary. Put the links up to it online for people if they want to get their own made. And look, it's really simple folks. It's really simple. In our time, in times like this, we need to focus on the things that are higher than us, higher than our own interests, higher than our own self interests. And when I stood there at the memorial for Charlie and held up my rosary, that was an invocation of God, that was an invocation of the saints, an invocation of St. Michael. And I don't know why Mark Levin chose that picture of me to attack. But I'll simply say this, Mark, if you want to come pray a rosary with me, you're more than welcome. And I will always welcome you to do that. And in fact, I hope that Mark watches the Regime Change series that we've set up at Human Events daily because a lot of his work is featured very prominently in it.

[Steve Bannon]

He's, he's like a, his reaction, Jack, was like a vampire. When they see the, when they see the Holy Rosary, right? It's like a vampire all of a sudden, they start their heads blow up.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, so in the original, spitting at.

[Steve Bannon]

That venom right away, he's a very, he's violently anti Catholic. You could not see, you cannot see, you cannot see that photo of you at Charlie's, at Charlie's memorial service and attack it. Would he call you a crackpot after some guy called you a piece of. For putting it up? That shows you everything. They're very anti Catholic. Okay. Variantly anti Catholic.

[Jack Posobiec]

This is something my family prayed for hundreds of years and we're never gonna say stop. Ever.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah, I don't know if you can pray this away. Don't think you can pray this.

[Jack Posobiec]

Oh, that's okay. Because in Poland we have options other than.

[Steve Bannon]

We we're going to go to we're going to go to Kurt Mills, Jack Boba, we're going to talk about the Greater Israel Project. What Netanyahu selling today short. Commercial break Back in the War in a moment.

[Jack Posobiec]

War Room, here's your host, Stephen K. Banner.

[Steve Bannon]

Okay, I got Pozo and Jack, just hang over a second. I want to get you in on this with Kurt Mills. So Kurt, in the logic of Netanyahu, he does have, I mean he's sitting there going, hey, the serious situation is because the, the new regime there, the isis, al Qaeda regime is a Turkish proxy. He's got now Turkey is going to be in the mainland of Israel in Gaza as a security guarantor. Witkoff and Jared are meeting with Egyptians, Qatar and Turks last Friday for an all day meeting without the Israelis. Everywhere he looks, even if you look at this Somaliland and Somalia situation, the United States, I think, as you correctly observe all the time, kind of invited Turkey in years ago. Everywhere he looks he's got Qatar writing checks and he's got Turks providing security. And in the Greater Israel Project that doesn't make sense because they're saying Turkey's a big problem for us, sir. So what do you expect? Today he's coming, he's pitching a new expanded war with the Persians, but he's also going to make a pretty hard pitch about you got to stop this whole thing in Gaza right now. It's not going to work. Hamas is not going to disarm. I can't allow the Turks to run the place. And in Syria you're basically America, you are the running dogs for the, for the Turks in, in supporting this radical Islamist regime up there.

[Kurt Mills]

Sir, I think he'll be a little careful on Gaza because the president has such pride in the peace deal that they brokered in over the autumn. So additionally, they're going to see how many people they can just kill, frankly and get away with it. Just this morning they announced that the Israelis assassinated the Hamas spokesman some time ago and replaced with another guy. Basically. I think on Gaza it's probably status.

[Steve Bannon]

Quo, but hang on, but hang on, but hang on, Hamas, but Hamas is also just look at the deal. They're not actually bending over backwards to disarm. I mean, I think that they've made a calculation here that they're going to keep until somebody actually forces them to do it. And right now they haven't decided on which country's going to do it. Even Qatar and the Turks don't want to do it. I mean, Hamas is sitting there going, we're not going to ever really fulfill the last part of this. Right. They're not going to disarm because they're saying if we disarm, they're going to kill us all. Correct?

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah. I mean, there's no coherent way to achieve the core. This is classic Israel, which is genius at tactics, incoherence at strategy. There's no coherent way to, quote, destroy Hamas, which is the stated war aim of Netanyahu. Hamas is a reality in Palestine. It's very possible a deal could be brokered that could blend some of the more moderates into a future Palestinian government. But as of today, there's no real plan to move these people or just murder them all or to have any durable process that gets rid of Hamas is basically an armistice. And the Israelis are seeing how quickly they can violate it or how much they can violate it. As for the wider Middle east, yeah, Netanyahu is going to do what he normally does, his business as usual. He's going to come to Washington, or he's going to come to Palm beach in this case, and he's going to come with a list of demands and new wars that he wants Washington to underwrite. And he's going to have a particular pressing nature this time, as opposed to all the other times that he's come to President Trump. Because Netanyahu is probably running for reelection in Q1 of 2026. And as you mentioned earlier in the show, he has changed the goalpost on Iran. It is now ICBMs, the missiles, which is, you know, had been sort of floated before, but it's an entirely new metric, basically, in the public sphere. And then as for the Turks and the Qataris, yeah, I think it's pretty clear for all the investment that Israel has put on Iran, meanwhile, sort of Turkish Qatari access has emerged that has checked Israel's ambitions in the region, and they're going to keep asking Washington to intervene on its behalf. You see basically Israeli mouthpieces in Washington.

[Steve Bannon]

Already arguing, but President Trump, the architecture of this coming off the Abraham Accords looks like it's pretty set. I mean, President Trump actually has and is very close. Obviously, there's some big things that still have to be done, but you're a million miles closer to a real deal there than you are in the Ukraine, where the two sides are slugging out and going after each other. Attacking Putin's home. Putin is over Christmas is really cutting out the power and the heat in the Capital of Kiev here. President Trump's got an architecture and you do have sit downs. Look like progress is being made with Jerif and Witkoff, with the Turks and the Qataris all the time. So what is the argument actually they're going to make today that could get any traction with, you know, because Jared's going to be there, Wyckoff's going to be there, that could get any traction with the Trump administration?

[Kurt Mills]

I just think residual sympathy for the Israelis, residual deference to Netanyahu. There was reporting over the weekend in Axios that basically Netanyahu has exhausted his will with pretty much everyone on Trump's team other than Trump, which is curious given their torrid relationship the last 10 years. But I think, you know, the reality is you're right, but there's a major X factor, which is that makes, I think the Middle east portfolio potentially more unstable, which is that if there's a new war that opens up in Iran and if the Israelis get their long sought after goal of regime change there, they'll pivot to other players in the region, whether that be Turkey or Pakistan, who knows what's next. And it's a sort of permanent engine of Netanyahu's political project. He needs the wars to keep going. It's not even about victory. It's related to the lack of a plan to get rid of Hamas. He just needs the war to keep going in order to survive politically. And in that sense, Netanyahu may be remembered as the greatest enemy of the Israeli people.

[Steve Bannon]

Hang on for one second. I got Philip Patrick by phone. I've asked Philip to jump in here. I'm going to get to Jack Bassopi and Kurt. Back in a second, Philip. Everybody over the weekend wants to know what's the situation with Silver? What is Birchgold looking at? Because this has been. It's been a crazy ride in the last 72 hours. What do you got for us, sir?

[Philip Patrick]

Yeah, I think Silver just reminded people what kind of market this really is. It ran to $80, dropped $9 almost instantly. It wasn't a failure. This was a stress test. People have to remember Silver doesn't just drift higher like stocks. It surges, it breaks, it resets, and then it keeps going. Gold tends to move first, Silver follows. But it's never polite. We saw a massive run this year essentially on the back of fundamentals, and then we saw a big drop this morning, about $9. What happened when Silver spikes this fast? Leverage tends to pile in, momentum traders chase and paper positioning starts to stretch and Then what we see is margins start to rise. And this time it wasn't theoretical. On Friday, Comex officially raised margin requirements on silver and other precious metals. When that happens, we cans don't get to argue fundamentals. They either post cash or they sell. And that's what happened. This was a structural sell off. People have to remember silver is thin, it's leveraged and air pockets are normal. Every major silver bull market looks like this. It's violent upside, violent reset and then a stronger base. This is price discovery, not a top in the market that we're seeing.

[Steve Bannon]

I take it this is also this is not for the uninitiated. How do people get access to you right now? Because I know people have tons of questions, particularly people who have participated in gold with you over the last couple of years about this. It's pretty every time everybody anybody posts something, it goes viral and I know people are very focused on this. So where they go to get the best thinking from Birch Gold, it's very simple.

[Philip Patrick]

It's birchgold.com Bannon again. Birchgold.com Bannon that'll get them access to the information. A ton of stuff on silver as well as gold and of course access to the end of the dollar empire reports as well as the Patriots edition as well. They've got until January to get that. So birchgold.com Bannon.

[Steve Bannon]

Philip Patrick, thank you so much for coming in on from London by phone. Appreciate you. That's the dedication those guys have. Even on holiday they will jump on. Jack. Jack Posobic still with me. Poso your thoughts about Kurt Mills, what his comments, his observations in this meeting this afternoon with Net Yahoo.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well Steve, I think it's very clear to understand that political ramifications have always played a huge part of this. You and I talked about this last summer during the anti Iran operations where Bibi Netanyahu very barely held on when a vote of no confidence was being held in the Knesset. So we know that politics have driven these decisions quite a bit. We also talked about this vis a vis Ukraine because you see the leaders of Western Europe, one of the main reasons the leaders of Western Europe, the eu, they don't want peace with Russia is because they're using the threat of Russia, they're using the threat of war to distract their populations from their cratering economies that are completely being sucked dry. The German manufacturing sector that's completely collapsed and the massive migrant crisis that they've been enacted that's been enacted upon them raping the little girls, destroying their Christmas markets Blowing up their churches, setting everything on fire. And that's been going on for 10 years now. But what do they do? They say, oh no, you gotta worry about Putin. You gotta worry about Putin. So the lure of the war drags on. The ability they have to use that as a scapegoat to distract from what's going on in their own backyards or their populace will be more scared about that than they will what's actually happening. But Steve, we do talk about this. You mentioned you call it the Greater Israel Project. Well, what we do in specifically the Iraq war episode of Tales of Regime Change is we go back to all the way back to 1996 and to a document made by Richard Pearl. And Richard Perl at the time was working for a study group with Bibi Netanyahu. And this was called the Clean Break document. Now Pearl, he himself had been a staffer for Scoop Thompson. And this. So he goes all the way back. He's in the firmament there. He's in this neocon administration of George H.W. bush, which then many of which translate over to the administration of George W. Bush. So Steve, when we talk about the two George's theory of American foreign policy, George Bush, George Soros, one of the ones that we have to dig into is this Clean Break strategy. And in that strategy they lay out that the best plan for peace for the state of Israel would be to go throughout their neighbors, go throughout the Middle East. And this is all documented. Everyone can go look at it. The document's been out public for a long time. And they say what we need is a series of regime change wars with all of the Arab countries surrounding us. So what do they look at? They look at Iraq, they look at Syria, they look at Libya, they look at all of the countries. Lebanon is a huge part of this. And then the final, what they would call the head of the snake is Iran. Regime change in Iran. Now, fast forward to last summer again, what did we see? President Trump says we're going to take out the nuclear sites. But we also heard a contingent of people calling for full on regime change in Tehran. Mark Levin specifically was one of the people who was screaming. You could go watch the video screaming, pounding on his desk, demanding that President Trump go for a full on invasion of Iran, full on boots on the ground, full full on American troops being committed to this project the same way that he supported it in Iraq. So what are we talking about here? We're talking about a project that goes all the way back to the 1990s, that's not being done. That was not created for the security of America. It was created for the security of another state. And it can't be separated from the George W. Bush administration because it was produced and executed by many of the very same people.

[Steve Bannon]

No. Where do people go, Jack, to see this? Starting a day at 2 o' clock on Human Events Daily. Where do people go? What's your social media?

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah, we're up on Human Events Daily on everyone to subscribe to the podcast because just in case the Twitter has been doing weird things to my account. So not sure what's happening there. So you got to subscribe to the podcast at Human Events Daily, go and see it there. And it's funny, Steve, speaking of, you know, speaking of all of this, how all of this started when back on December 22nd, I broke the story that it was in fact Mark Levin's stepson who brought Jonathan Pollard, the convicted traitor, into the US Embassy in Jerusalem. Wow.

[Steve Bannon]

Funny how Mossad works. Funny how Mossad works. Well, Jack, you're getting the better of this anti Catholic, anti Christian approach is not going to work. Jack Posobic, thank you. Looking forward to 2:00'. Clock. Maybe get you back on the evening show. Kurt Mills is going to take it out. Short commercial break. Back in the warm and back in the warm in a moment. Thank you sir. We rejoice when there's no more. Let's take down the CCP war room.

[Jack Posobiec]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[Steve Bannon]

Kurt Mills, this is why we got Posobic today at 2. That's going to tee up the BB. We're going to live stream it everywhere. It's going to tee up the BB meeting that we're going, folks, just like yesterday. We're going to play it by ear. Supposed to start I think about 4:30. We're going to have coverage wall to wall all the way through our shows in the evening. But as you know, you have no earthy idea how long these things are going to go. Kurt Mills, thoughts?

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, no, I'm still sort of reeling from a Jack Posovic reference of the Clean Break memo. I'm going to have a pep in my step the rest of the day. I suspect this is a memorandum that was prepared for future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by Richard Pearl and David Wurmser, who later became key Bush administration officials. I think it is basically the Rosetta Stone of modern neoconservatism. Its goal, and in the subtitle was securing the realm. And the realm of course, was Israel. So this is American officials writing for a future Israeli prime minister and sort of monolithic Israeli prime minister. Highly unusual. Very weird. Definitely not the pure pursuit of US national interest.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah. Where to go people go for all your writings today. You're going to be hopefully helping us with this coverage this afternoon. Where do people go?

[Mike Lindell]

Sure.

[Kurt Mills]

It's C U R T M I L L s on x urt mills and the magazine was founded in 2002 by Pat Buchanan and friends against said Iraq war. And you can find us at www.theamericanconservative.com we actually just launched our this month's cover piece today by Nick Rowan. It's all about the Ukraine Russia war. He was in Kiev a few weeks ago before the latest round of There it is Ukraine's fate and Western dream before the latest round of bombing and these new negotiations. So yeah, check out the magazine. Check out it's getting rough.

[Steve Bannon]

Yeah. Say a prayer for President Trump man as he tries to work that one in this one today. Talk about guy get the pressure of the world on his shoulders. Kurt Mills, thank you so much brother. Look forward to seeing you maybe hopefully this afternoon. Although I don't know how much we're going to starts at 4:30. The thing can last for a while anyway. We're going to play by your folks. Mike Lindell, we got a couple of minutes. You were great this morning earlier. Now you're going to come back and sell me a pillow. What do you got?

[Mike Lindell]

Right on. Well what we're doing everybody, this is a war room posse exclusive. We did have items that we didn't get sold for Christmas. This is the New Year's sale that we're doing. You got the 6ft style sets and you guys, we have the ones of course that we don't run out of. And that's our my mattress toppers made in the USA and the MyPillow Premium save 50%. 149.98 is lower on the on the mattress toppers. But here it is, the war room free shipping sale exclusive. So get those big ticket items and the Giza Dream Sheets. We had one whole whole shipment come in right at Christmas so we didn't get it in time. But they're in now. I'm going to leave them on sale for you guys. 29.98 as low as 29.98. So go to mypillow.com forward slash war room. And there you see it. We just got in. Remember the crosses? We ran out. We got those in. They came in on Monday. So you get the crosses. We're going to leave them. You save $80 a piece for the War Room Posse and Made in the usa. And so you've got all of these specials that we have for Christmas and we've added to them for this New Year's special. There you see the mattress stopper and our mattresses. We're all back to work. Everybody making our mattresses 100% made in the USA. Take advantage of that free shipping and that's the one thing that has raised prices all over our country is high price shipping is free with my employee paid employee owned company. We thank you. Promo code war room 800-873-1062. Say hello to my wonderful USA agents that answer the phone.

[Steve Bannon]

Mike Lindell, Fight on, sir. Everybody goes today and support Mike Pell. Appreciate you, sir. Most powerful promo code in the business. Joe Allen, you and I are going to spend some time in the evening show, but I want to give people a heads up over the weekend. State of the Union Dana Bash spent the entire hour, I Think yesterday on AI DeSantis. Bernie Sanders are now all waking to the fact of what we've been preaching here for a while is that this is one of the most important, if not the most important issue facing us. Sir.

[Joe Allen]

Yes, Steve, you know, it's as if they trained an AI on the War Room, fed it into Jake Tapper and Bernie Sanders and said give us a socialist version. It was, it's very good. I think that people like Bernie Sanders have learned what the abbreviation AI stands for. It's very cute sometimes to hear him talk about it, but it's also really important that he has the guts to actually stand up to the tech companies. A lot of people on the right don't. You do have Ron DeSantis. You do have Senator Josh Hawley. And they also featured Senator Katie Britt from Alabama speaking about this. And with the real issue I think that the War Room posse needs to focus on in this is the immediate the urgent issues that AI brings up and that's going to be social psychological issues. State of the Union featured Jonathan Haidt, the social psychologist. He has been on this for a long time. I take many of my own cues from him. And these are going to be among the most important issues. These are going to be some of the most important laws passed, child protection laws, laws that insist that the companies, when they know the AI systems are causing AI psychosis, that they simply pull the plug and stop it. So I think it's very, very good that you have Bernie Sanders in there taking some of his final swings in his career. I also think that it's oftentimes pretty humorous to hear him talk about the future that he's only just discovered.

[Steve Bannon]

No, not. And not just that Bernie Sanders and that entire group of corrupt Democrats are the ones that made the oligarchs. Bernie Sanders, where you been? Where you been? On antitrust. Where you been on anything that could have broken up this mess. You've been around forever and now you're gonna come. Don't think, hey, don't think. Bernie ain't thinking about 28 Joe Allen. He's got a spring in his step. Those guys, they got nothing else to do. So it's just all talk, talk, talk. But you're, you're correct to see the socialist version of it. Anyway, Joe Allen, we're going to get back to you. Keep fighting. Joe's traveling. We got a lot of developments on where Joe's going to spread the word talks he's going to give, etc. Okay, Charlie Kirk show picks up next. Andrew Colvette, poso A2. We're going to stream that. We're going to be back, I think Netanyahu's at Mar Lago 4, 35 o'. Clock. We're gonna cover the whole thing live. We got a lot to do this week, a lot of work to get through the end of the year. We're gonna run through the tape here at the Worm. How's that sound? Okay. Right. Stuff will take us out. We'll be back at 5 o'. Clock. See?

[Mike Lindell]

Then.

[Jack Posobiec]

Sa.