Episode 5190: Focus Needs To Be Not Just On Iran But On CCP And Russia

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bannon’s War Room

Episode 5190: Focus Needs To Be Not Just On Iran But On CCP And Russia
Date: March 5, 2026
Host: Stephen K. Bannon (and panel)
Key Guests: Kurt Mills, Brian Kennedy, Natalie (co-host/moderator), Declan’s parents (gold star family segment)

Overview

This episode centers on the unfolding U.S. military campaign against Iran (Operation Epic Fury) under President Trump, its strategic motivations, public response, and the broader international context—particularly the role of China (CCP), Russia, and secondary theaters like Taiwan and Venezuela. The conversation delves into the conflict’s origins, MAGA community debates around intervention, calculations of U.S. interests versus neoconservative ideology, homeland security concerns, and the long-term implications of kinetic actions abroad.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recap of Current Operations and Their Impact

• CENTCOM’s “100 Hours” Compilation: The show opens with commentary on the first days of Operation Epic Fury, described as the most “lethal, complex, and precise aerial operation in history.”
  • [00:19] “This is an operational conference to bring our countries more closely together…Not a one-way street. Every partner has to do more…We will make the Americas great again.”—Sec. of War Pete Hegseth (as quoted)
• US Actions in Iran:
  • Sinking the entire Iranian navy.
  • Assassinating Khamenei.
  • Continuous combat operations with significant U.S. casualties: six U.S. service members killed so far, with more expected.

2. Personal Costs of War

• Gold Star Family Segment: Declan’s parents emotionally recount the loss of their son, highlighting the toll on military families.
  • [05:39] “I just really wish I got to tell him I love him one more time, because he was just so amazing...He never let his emotions really show...he was probably really scared, even if he didn’t want people to know.”—Declan’s sibling

3. Escalation and Homeland Security

• Heightened Risk of Terrorism:
  • Lawmakers and hosts (notably Lindsey Graham, quoted and critiqued) discuss the likelihood of retaliation inside the United States.
  • Funding gaps are exposed—particularly for the Coast Guard and FEMA, raising questions about readiness amidst heightened threat.
  • [06:53] “So you mean they actually may want to come here and hit us because we hit them in Iran? I don’t think you have to be, you know, a general to figure that out.”—Unidentified Caller
  • [08:09] “America is under siege now, likely to be attacked because radical Islam is under siege, and they’re going to hit back.”—Unidentified Caller

4. Political and Strategic Analysis

a. Kurt Mills on Administration’s Dilemma and Elite MAGA Revolt

• Israel’s Concerns: Israelis seek assurance that the U.S. is not negotiating with Iran behind their backs.
• Conflict’s Trajectory:
  • U.S. citizens advised to evacuate from 15+ countries.
  • Regional instability spanning the Gulf, Israel, and beyond.
  • Assassination of Khamenei seen as not fundamentally shifting Iranian resistance.
  • The risk of protracted war, with administration floating timelines from weeks to 100 days. Potential for ground troops not ruled out.
  • [11:36] “The Iranians have shown themselves far more plucky and adversarial in resisting the US and Israeli assault than…Hamas in Gaza…The Iranians are not Venezuela. As much as the President is seeking a Venezuelan option, the Iranians are a much more fearsome state.”
• MAGA Base Division:
  • High-information Trump voters (“actual real MAGA”) vs. traditional hawks/neocons.
  • [12:44] “The approval for this war is very, very low. This is essentially a factional war of traditional Republican hawks and neocons—his allies on the Hill—and many of the hawkish think tanks and magazines that opposed Trump’s initial rise to power.”
• Boots on the Ground Debate:
  • President has not ruled out traditional deployments; special operations might already be in play.
  • [19:45] “The administration has not been extremely forthcoming about how all six servicemen were killed…I think it’s very possible the U.S. already has ground operations [in Iran].”

b. Natalie on Conflation of “Imminent Threats” and Policy Rationale

• Critique of War Framing:
  • Questions the logic behind a 47-year “imminent threat.”
  • Frustration with neoconservative influence, misaligned priorities (border security, homeland safety overlooked in favor of geopolitical adventurism).
  • [21:43] "I just wish Lindsey Graham cared about the American people like 1/100th of how much he cared about the Iranian people."
  • [24:35] “I’m a little tired of these ethnic diasporas here in the United States…then demanding American blood and treasure so they can fulfill their vengeance against regimes in countries they no longer have allegiance to.”

c. Internal Right-Wing Debate and the Value of Dissent

• Kurt Mills: Celebrates robust intra-MAGA argument as healthy—contrasting with the Democratic party during the Ukraine conflict.
  • [25:30] “The people who are dying…the servicemen are young people. Their perspective matters…he died fighting a global war on terror that is arguably still going, that hasn't ended even with the exhaustion of his life.”
  • [26:20] “The right is having a small-D Democratic, robust, vibrant conversation. And I think that's a good thing.”

d. Brian Kennedy’s Defense of Trump’s Strategy and Critique of Neocon Comparison

• Key Trump Doctrine Points:
  • Trump as fundamentally anti-war, only acting due to perceived seriousness and intelligence indicating an actual nuclear threat from Iran.
  • The MAGA motivation is distinct from neocon motives—action alleged to be reluctantly taken, not exportation of democracy or regime change for its own sake.
  • [31:49] “The president is anti war, I’m anti war, as are many of the MAGA base. The president wouldn’t have done this…if he didn’t think something was really serious here.”
• US First, Not Just Israel:
  • Trump’s priority is American security, not following Israeli or Saudi interests, though actions may also benefit regional partners.
  • [41:39] “But his first and only interest here is what's good for the United States…”
• Realism About Iran:
  • Regime change does not mean democratization—at best, an Islamic dictatorship that does not seek nuclear weapons or attack the US.
  • [37:42] “We're not going to democratize Iran. That's not our job…we should have a regime that believes nuclear weapons are a very bad idea.”
• Iran as a Proxy for the CCP:
  • The “bigger war” is against China (CCP) and its proxies, including Iran, Venezuela, and potentially Cuba.
  • [43:00] “We've been talking…about us being in World War III and this is one front in World War III.”

5. The China (CCP) and Russia Angle

• Military Signal to PRC:
  • Temporary suspension of Chinese air incursions over Taiwan possibly reflects PRC caution in the face of U.S. aggression elsewhere.
  • [46:51] "The Chinese don't want to escalate things right now…They're not going to do the kind of things to provoke us, especially vis a vis Taiwan."
• Decoupling and Kinetic Action:
  • Kennedy calls for full economic decoupling from China, arms sales to Taiwan, and “defanging” Chinese proxies via kinetic action where needed.
  • [49:09] “I’m for decoupling, a systematic decoupling with communist China entirely…in the meantime we have to use kinetic action to make sure that communist China's proxies…are defanged…”
• Policy Inconsistencies:
  • Questions administration’s hesitance or delays in supporting Taiwan despite confrontations elsewhere.

6. Endgames, Offramps, and Consequences

• Off-Ramp Scenarios:
  • U.S. should withdraw only after Iran’s regime truly believes it’s been defeated and will not harbor hostile ambitions.
  • [51:42] “We should leave when the Iranian regime, whoever that is, believes they've been defeated…and that they believe…it's a bad idea to think about attacking the United States.”
• Historical Hostility Reminder:
  • Iran’s history of anti-U.S. actions recapped to justify the seriousness of current U.S. actions.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “We didn’t start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it.” —Stephen K. Bannon, [03:42]
• “Trying to pull on the heartstrings of Americans every day by showing the young dead…it’s the most unfortunate thing. But these things happen, and…only happen because war is a very deadly business.”—Brian Kennedy, [31:49]
• “The Iranians are not Venezuela. As much as the President is seeking a Venezuelan option here, the Iranians are a much more fearsome state.”—Kurt Mills, [11:36]
• “I just wish Lindsey Graham cared about the American people like 1/100th of how much he cared about the Iranian people.” —Natalie, [21:43]
• “We're not going to democratize Iran. That's not our job. That is the job of the Iranian people.”—Brian Kennedy, [37:42]
• “The right is having a small-D Democratic, robust, vibrant conversation. And I think that's a good thing…that is the milieu in which Trump came to power in 2016 and, and rose back in 2024.”—Kurt Mills, [26:20]

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:19 – 03:26]: Hegseth’s “Make the Americas Great Again” speech, announcement of Operation Epic Fury.
• [04:12 – 06:38]: Gold star family segment—Declan’s parents.
• [06:38 – 08:46]: Congress discussion: security gaps, funding, terrorist threat.
• [10:34 – 14:50]: Kurt Mills on administration’s troubles, regional instability, and political context.
• [16:21 – 17:30]: “Boots on the ground”—will US escalate further?
• [19:45 – 21:43]: Analysis of Lindsey Graham, neocon priorities, and “America Last” critique.
• [25:30 – 27:47]: Debate over what “real MAGA” is, generational divide, value of dissent.
• [31:49 – 43:30]: Brian Kennedy responds—Trump’s rationale, imminent threats, neocon distinctions, and strategy toward Iran.
• [45:53 – 49:09]: The CCP/Russia/Taiwan angles, implications for broader global conflict.
• [51:06 – 53:15]: Off-ramp possibilities, Kennedy’s closing assessment.

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Tone and Style

The episode retains the War Room’s signature combative, polemical, and often emotional tone—alternating between lament for lost soldiers, sharp critique of political opponents (particularly neocons, as well as the Biden administration for border/security policy), and earnest internal debate among right-of-center factions. Both hosts and guests emphasize seriousness, cross-generational concern, and urgency about both Iran and the broader global power struggle with China.

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Conclusion

Episode 5190 presents a nuanced, often contentious debate about the justification, risks, and fallout of U.S. military escalation with Iran, the specter of neoconservative influence, China’s global ambitions, and the appropriate prioritization of American interests in foreign policy. The War Room lays bare internal movement arguments, with a recurring insistence that robust debate—not lockstep ideology—defines and strengthens the pro-Trump right at a critical national moment.

Transcript

[Brian Kennedy]

Donovan,

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Eric Garrisey, who's who from day one in my office. He was my first sergeant in Iraq.

[Natalie]

He's one of my war room. It's Thursday, March 5th in the year of our Lord 2026. We are watching Secretary of War Pete Hegseth speak down live in Miami. We're going to let him finish and then we have a pack show, so

[Stephen K. Bannon]

don't go anywhere this day. Patrick Weaver, Phil Heth, who I happen to know, and Ricky Berea, my chief, for doing a great job putting this together. Tony Salisbury, thank you so many folks that every single day in Washington, I hope you know, are working hard to run as fast as you are, to stand alongside you in this mission. This is not a conference with flags so we can pat ourselves on the back. I can tell you that if I sold that to President Trump as the objective, he'd kick me out of his office. This is an operational conference to bring our countries more closely together to achieve a shared objective and do so aggressively. This is not a one way street. Every partner in this region has to do more and invest more in your security as well. We, like you, want a hemisphere of sovereign, secure and prosperous nations. We, like you, want what another great American President, Teddy Roosevelt, called the permanent peace on this hemisphere. And it will require action from all of us. You know, our schools used to teach American school children about our blessed history. Every child in grade school grew up knowing the remarkable story of this country. They knew that President James Monroe was once an orphan, that at a mere 16 years old, he had to look after his siblings. I've got an almost 16 year old. He couldn't look after anything. It's remarkable. Well, that orphan grew to be not just one of the greatest presidents, but one of our greatest Americans after his presidency, when his wife died and he became frail and ill with heart failure. But he still spoke about what he called our shared cause of liberty, still talked about the toils and the perils of our war for independence. James Monroe, our seventh president, died on July 4, the 4th of July, Independence Day, 1831, 50 years after 1776. What I like to say is here at the Department of War, we're in the 1775 business, which is when Americans took up arms before they even declared independence. All of you are also in the 1775 business. Without the force of arms, without our militaries, we cannot keep our country safe. That's my responsibility, and it is yours. With Donald Trump in the Oval Office and with all of you here, we can still realize that Long ago dream of James Monroe. In our time, we will make the Americas great again. Thank you and God bless you. The United States and its partners have launched Operation Epic Fury, the most lethal, most complex, and most precise aerial operation in history.

[Brian Kennedy]

Our military in the Middle east is undertaking an unprecedented operation to eliminate Iran's ability to threaten Americans as they've been doing for nearly half a century. We are also sinking the Iranian navy. The entire navy.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it.

[Steve Bannon]

Combat operations continue at this time in

[Stephen K. Bannon]

full force, and they will continue until

[Natalie]

all of our objectives are achieved.

[Declan's Parent 1]

Declan's unit was deployed in Kuwait for nine months. They left in September of last year, so estimated his time would have ended in May.

[Declan's Parent 2]

This was the morning before we dropped him off for him to leave. He was our cat Autumn's favorite. She'd sit in his room. He was gonna be 21 in May,

[Declan's Parent 1]

in two months, I would say Sunday. I'm sure everybody started waking up that morning, and you heard at the time that four people had been killed and many injured. And I think we talked with our son in Italy at the time and said he had talked to Declan, and Declan just was checking in with him. The reason being is Declan was nine hours ahead of us. He was two hours ahead of his brother, so he called his brother. So Declan had been sending us updates every one to two hours, like, hey, everything's still good. I'm good. Which goes to show you, you know, he was thinking about us, like, don't worry about me, and so forth. So he had checked in with his brother, and kind of based off of timing, you know, and what we know so far, we don't. We don't know specifics, but we're just making an assumption based off of timing that it was shortly after that phone call that he had gotten off with his brother, that this is when that happened, and his operations center got hit.

[Declan's Parent 2]

I still don't fully think it's real, and I didn't think it was real when they told us, because I just remember all of our conversations about what he was gonna do when he came back. And so I'll just be sitting and thinking about it, and then I don't. It's just. It's really hard. And I didn't have, like, the same phone call, like, this weekend that my dad and, like, my brother did. So I just really wish I got to tell him I love him one more time because he was just so amazing. And he was in front of everybody, just was like, really strong. He, like, he never let his emotions really show. But I just. I don't know, I can't help but think just he was my little brother and he was probably really scared, even if he didn't want people to know. So I just wish he got to know one more time that we all loved him.

[Unidentified Caller]

Now we're. We're engaged in military action against the mothership of terrorism, Iran, which I hope will sink pretty soon. Do you think the threat level against the United States is up or down when it comes to radical Islamic terrorists?

[Natalie]

It's up.

[Unidentified Caller]

Sup?

[Natalie]

Yep.

[Unidentified Caller]

So you mean they actually may want to come here and hit us because we hit them in Iran? I don't think you have to be, you know, a general to figure that out. Is the Coast Guard without funding?

[Natalie]

Portions of it. We're keeping some of the salaries paid, but they're.

[Unidentified Caller]

So there's no funds in the appropriation bill for the Coast Guard, is that correct?

[Natalie]

That is correct.

[Unidentified Caller]

Because your agency is not being funded. It's the one part of the appropriations bill where we haven't agreed on funding, is that correct?

[Natalie]

Correct.

[Unidentified Caller]

So fema, no money, right? Coast Guard, no money. Really? Really. Ice, they have money because of the bill we did before. The Secret Service. Are these people being paid?

[Natalie]

Yes, they are.

[Unidentified Caller]

They are being paid. But do we have money?

[Natalie]

Our law enforcement is paid, but their resources, their administrative, they're not being paid

[Unidentified Caller]

out of appropriate funds this year, right?

[Natalie]

Correct.

[Unidentified Caller]

So in the appropriations process, we've got no new money for the Secret Service. Does that make any sense to anybody in America? Can we not understand? America is under siege now likely to be attacked because radical Islam is under siege, and they're going to hit back. And we're sitting here looking at each other and not funding dhs.

[Steve Bannon]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Reasons I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.

[Kurt Mills]

It's going to happen.

[Brian Kennedy]

And where do people like that go

[Steve Bannon]

to share the big lie?

[Brian Kennedy]

MAGA media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

[Steve Bannon]

Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

[Brian Kennedy]

War room.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[Natalie]

You're in the war room. It's Thursday, March 5th in the year of our Lord 2026. 6. That first video that we played, that is a compilation that CENTCOM put out of the first hundred hours, which I guess we have now passed of. I guess the non war war, depends who you ask. What's going down in Iran? Wonderful execution. Of course, our thoughts and prayers are with the United States military. Just a tragic video of one of the, I believe now, six US Service members who have been killed, killed tragically, just absolutely horrifically in this, as President Trump, I think, describes ongoing combat operation. We're going to go through all of it. I think there's a lot of signal, a lot of noise in this news cycle. But we're going to give you just the signal, though. Like I said, there's a lot of it to sort through. So I want to start with Kurt Mills and Kurt, I want to. Have you also got Brian Kennedy? We're going to start with Kurt. There's a really interesting Axios story, I think as we sort of try to really understand the clear objectives. I know the White House has put out their press releases and their statements, but I think in order to understand where this conflict is going, it's best to understand the source of it. There's some interesting reporting talking about how the Israelis have been making outreach to the White House, trying to understand if there are talks or negotiations going on at the moment with the Iranians. Can you sort of walk us through, through this reporting this piece and then we'll get into to where we stand in the broader region.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah. So obviously the start of the war has not gone great for the administration. And so the best chance at this point for them is to seek an off ramp. There is some reporting from Axios a day or two ago that the Israelis actually phoned around the United States, the Netanyahu administration, that is to ensure that the US Was actually not negotiating again with the Iranians. I have nothing to report about whether or not there are back channels. There's probably deep back channels at this point between the U.S. iran, although not positive on that. But of course, the restarting of negotiations, the idea that the administration might just call it, they've assassinated Khamenei, they have destroyed some of the Iranian military capabilities and might just call it a victory, I think is the best chance at this point to stop a war, which of course the Israelis very much do not want.

[Natalie]

Walk me through a little why you say not great? Are you talking about the actual, you know, tactical kinetic operations, the messaging, the projected timeline I just want to get some clarification on that.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, look, I think on two main vertices. So, number one, the military. The US has now instructed US citizens to evacuate upwards of over 15 countries. The Iranians have internationalized or regionalized the conflict. They have thrown shahed drones and missiles throughout the Gulf region and in Israel. These are places that, you know, I mean, Doha Airport, you know, Dubai Airport, these are, these are major thoroughfares for anyone who's ever traveled internationally outside of Europe. These are places that Americans know well. They're closed. They are not safe. The Gulf is not safe for people to visit as the State Department has instructed and the Iranians have held. It is not entirely clear that the assassination of Khamenei really changes the political calculus there. In fact, they're poised to just appoint another Ayatollah, his son Moshtaba. So at this point, the Iranians have shown themselves far more plucky and adversarial in resisting the US and Israeli assault than say, Hamas was in Gaza or Hezbollah certainly was in Lebanon or even the Houthis or the Houthis in Yemen. The Iranians are not Venezuela. As much as the President is seeking a Venezuelan option here, the Iranians are a much more fearsome state. And additionally, Khamenei was a different leader than Maduro. It's a much more complex and decentralized bureaucracy. The Iranians are going to, are going to hold on on the politics. It's very clear there's an elite MAGA revolt. People like Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and others have sounded the alarm. The sort of high information Republican voters, and especially the independence that President Trump brought to the polls in 2016 and 2024. You know, the approval for this war is very, very low. This is essentially a factional war of traditional Republican hawks and neocons, his allies on the Hill, and many of the hawkish think tanks and magazines, frankly, that oppose Trump's initial rise to power. I mean, just take a look at the National Review against Trump issue from winter 2016. That is a litaning of people who are today supporting this Iran war.

[Natalie]

And Kurt, just give me a minute because there's been some shifting timeline predictions. For the first time ever, I think yesterday we heard eight weeks, four weeks seem to sort of be the number. What do you think we're we're looking at right now?

[Kurt Mills]

I think they're obviously moving the Overton window both on depth and width or depth and breadth of this campaign. Number one, they've already moved the Overton window to potentially having ground troops. They're not ruling it out. The senators on both parties, from everyone from Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut to Josh Hawley of Missouri, hardly, you know, a liberal, have seemed spooked after the Hill briefing earlier this week that about how long this campaign may be. And Hegseth Keith, the secretary of war, keeps moving the goalpost on how long it may be. Additionally, there was reporting out in Politico this morning that fastest of the administration are considering a war that is as long as 100 days, even stretching into the autumn. Obviously, the president himself has castigated the idea that he couldn't fight a forever war. Of course, President Trump ran against forever wars when he won in 16 and 24. And the fact that he is sort of reading from the neocon script is obviously disheartening for those who voted for him.

[Natalie]

That we got a bounce to break, but if you can hang with me, I got a, I got a cold open that I want your reactions to. We'll be right back.

[Steve Bannon]

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[Natalie]

I know you have to keep a lot of cards close to the vest on this, but we've already lost six troops, sir. The president says he does expect more. A lot of Americans and military families want to know if their loved ones are about to be deployed to Iran for this. Will there be boots on the ground? The president has yet to rule that out.

[Steve Bannon]

I certainly hope not. If there are boots on the ground, I hope they're not on the ground any longer than the boots on the ground were in Venezuela. But I think that that's something the president knows that members of Congress certainly hope doesn't happen, but sometimes that's unavoidable in a situation like this. And you mentioned six troops had lost their lives, some had been from Fort Knox in Kentucky, my home state. So, you know, we're devastated and obviously our thoughts and prayers are with the families of anyone that's been lost or wounded thus far.

[Brian Kennedy]

Carolyn,

[Unidentified Caller]

go ahead.

[Kurt Mills]

Carolyn, could you tell us about the President's current thinking about ground troops and whether they could be used if they were to be sent in to Iran, what would they be used for?

[Natalie]

What's the situation? Ms. Well, they're not part of the plan for this operation at this time, but I certainly will never take away military options on behalf of the president of the United States or the commander in chief, and he wisely does not do the same for himself. I know there's many leaders in the past who like to take options off of the table without having a full understanding of how things could develop. So again, it's not part of the current plan, but I'm not going to remove an option for the president that is on the table. You're back in the war room. We still got Kurt Mills, Brian Kennedy going to be joining us after I would just say I think this boots on the ground discussion is obviously kind of the thing itself, or at least one of the most determining and determinative factors into how this war not war, whatever you want to call it, shakes out. But I do think it's important to note that the second, third and fourth order, fifth list goes on order effects of invading Iran. Even if it's not actual kinetic, traditional boots on the ground type style conflict are still very real. Whether that's refugee influxes, refugee mass flows, terrorist attacks, sleeper cells. I thought it was quite interesting that Lindsey Graham is just like, well, I guess there's gonna be a terrorist attack in the United States. Oops, that is, I guess your America Last is showing, but I guess that's always on display. But there's still orders of magnitude of impacts, I think, significantly higher than the American people would like that come with any sort of kinetic engagement with an adversary like Iran. I want to bring Kurt on, though, because I am a little confused. I mean, I would posit I think in the next week or so you're going to start seeing some iteration whether it's JSox, Ocom, kind of a limited hangout version of boots on the ground, maybe turning out into a fuller force, more traditional boots on the ground, when colloquially you hear that. But I'm curious your thoughts both through a historic lens, but also just with what you're hearing from the admin. Is this sort of laying the groundwork for a more traditional kinetic insurgency or do you think there is a chance that they get out now?

[Kurt Mills]

Okay, well, first, I think you were right to flag the Lindsey Graham comment. I think it was unbelievable that he told Secretary Noem yesterday, just, just, just casually that the danger of, quote, Islamic terrorism is up, quote, because we hit Iran. I mean, it's not even clear that if it's cynicism or imbecility, frankly. Like, does it even occur to him, the causality here, it's really not clear if he doesn't care or he doesn't know. And at a certain point it doesn't matter. But it just, it just shows you how casual these foreign policy mistakes are in sort of compounding America's problems. America's problem with terrorism is related to its force posture overseas. And I think he just conceded it casually to your actual question. My apologies. As to boots on the ground, like, look, the President is now allied with the faction of neoconservatives who are giving him poor counsel. And there are all the hallmarks of neoconservative foreign policy mistakes in the making of right now. I would flag, you know, this sort of Kurdish farrago that the administration seems to be flirting with. You can't say for sure, but that very well could be a stalking horse for special operations that are already on the ground. And I would, I would flag the administration has not been extremely forthcoming about how all six servicemen or service people were killed. And I think it's very possible the US Already has ground operations. I don't have evidence, but I don't. The administration hasn't really ruled it out that they already have some personnel on the ground. And of course, as the Secretary of State and the former CIA Director Mike Pompeo said into the new year, when the Iran protest kicked off, he highly implied that CIA and Mossad were, you know, we had assets on the ground that were involved in spurring these protests in Iran, not denying the organic frustrations of the Iranian people with this government, but they were obviously used as a tinder and, and a casus belli for US Intervention at this point.

[Natalie]

Yeah, that Lindsey Graham clip, I think sort of gets to the heart of it, the flippancy with which the homeland is treated in comparison to this extremely steel manned, ideologically aspirational version of what could Maybe potentially, if 9 million things go right in an order that we've never seen happen before in history, makes us believe exactly the opposite. If that happens or materializes in Iran. It's just sort of a very interesting cost benefit analysis. And I think what I would say to that mindset is I just wish Lindsey Graham, that you cared about the American people like 1/100th of how much you cared about the Iranian people. Which it seems to me that there's this idea that there's this organic uprising going on there. Then I'd ask why the CIA is so busy arming supposed rebellious forces, whether it's the Kurds or whatnot. I don't know if that tell if we thought we were going to go in there and the people would sort of take it over in this populist style revolt. I don't necessarily think that we're seeing that happen. But even if you take away what is going on in Iran, I just think the premise right people like Lindsey Graham. You know what, Lindsey Graham, if Iran is such an imminent threat, which I learned, apparently something can be an imminent threat if it's been around for 47 years. I don't really think that makes sense. But I digress. Cuz that's all we've been hearing from the neocons that I voted to get away from as a party. But shouldn't have all these senators then been, I don't know, absolutely apoplectic, breaking down, crying down, trying to secure the border under Joe Biden because all these Iranian sleeper cells would be embedding in the country. Like you would think they would have cared a little bit more about border security enough to like, I don't know, go on Fox News and call for us now invading basically every country in the region and outside the region because apparently we're getting involved in Cuba too now. Or at least the Cuban diaspora is lobbying the Trump administration. You know what I'll say and then I'll toss it to you. Kurt. I'm a little tired of these ethnic diasporas here in the United States that we take in out of the goodness of our hearts, then demanding that American blood and treasure and the lives of the best and brightest Americans, like Sergeant Cody that you just saw 20 years old from Iowa have to die. So these communities that are like vaguely American can somehow fulfill their vengeance against regimes in the countries they no longer have allegiance to. That's just not the point of what the United States of America is. And I wish why people like Lindsey Graham. That neocon ideology pisses me off so much and really makes me mad. It is the flippancy with which they treat American lives and the American homeland. Yet the way that they speak about these foreign countries, the people there, it's as if they have the revolutionary spirit. And the American people, well, sorry, you just have to sit down and accept a terrorist attack because Raytheon wants to make a little bit more money despite being years behind on all their drone orders that we should be able to have actual weapons stockpiles, but apparently we don't because defense primes are the way the Pentagon wants to go. Kurt, I know there's a lot of debate going on right now back and forth and mag, I'm sure some of the comments section probably getter is lighting me up for that. But I think the difference between our side and the left is that we can have disagreements and you don't have to hate the people who are sharing these viewpoints. I think that's what makes our side really unique. What would your pitch to people who are listening to you and are wanting to pull their hair out saying you're skeptical, you're a Trump doomer, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure they'd say we're probably both too young, we don't know we're were too anti war. What would your pitch be saying that you represent actual real maga?

[Kurt Mills]

Well, just first, I mean the people who are dying, the service people are young people. So I feel like they get a vote and I think their perspective matters. And I mean the sergeant, the late sergeant that you flagged, his life was tragically bookmarked by, I mean he was born after 911 and he died fighting. And a global war on terror that is arguably still going, that hasn't ended even with the exhaustion of his life. And so it's, it's just awful. And I think it's not in the American national interest to be fighting this war or really to particularly care about what happens one way or the other in the Middle East. As to, as to the point that you make about the right having a robust conversation right now. Yeah, I think it's a good thing and I think it is something that makes the right better than the left. I remember and people well remember the Ukraine debate four years ago the left shut down the conversation. They excised any left wing critics of the Ukraine war. They tried to cancel the Congressional Progressive Caucus from even writing a strongly worded letter about the Ukraine war ahead of the midterms. And the right's not doing that. The right is having a small D Democratic, robust, vibrant conversation. And I think that's a good thing. I think that is the milieu in which Trump came to power in 2016 and, and rose back in 2024. And I think it will be the key to enduring conservative and Republican victories in the future. There's this idea that there shouldn't be a fight, this idea that there shouldn't be a contest. I don't remember the 2016 primary or the 2024 primary or the Trump era in general being polite or close minded. And so I think we should welcome this discussion. As to the age point that you're making, I mean, yeah, I mean I guess maybe we're too young, but I'm not that young. I mean I'm pretty much aged out. Not that I'm applying, but I would pretty much aged out to be in the Special Forces. The Special Forces were going to be people who are pretty much younger than me who potentially would die in this Iran war. So I think it is relevant what millennials and Gen Z think. And it is the future. And I think if you turn your back on the future, we run the risk of running an increasingly, you know, it already is but even more laughably gentle cratic society.

[Natalie]

Kurt Mills, if people want to follow you, read the magazine. Where can they go? Leave some comments. We appreciate it. Where can they go to do that?

[Kurt Mills]

The magazine was founded in 2002 by Patrick J. Buchanan with Tucker Carlson of his age. He founded with conservatives and friends against the Iraq War in 2002. It's at the AmericanConservative.com, my own personal comment and with the admixture of the magazine is U R T M I L L S on X. Thank you, Natalie.

[Natalie]

Thank you Kurt for joining us. We'll have you back. Brian Kennedy, after the short break. Don't go anywhere.

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[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Natalie]

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[Brian Kennedy]

Yeah. Well, Kurt's a smart guy, first of all. Great to be with you, Natalie. Always good to be with you. Kurt's a smart guy, and I understand his perspective. But the fact is, the president is anti war, I'm anti war, as are many of the MAGA base. So the president wouldn't have done this, President Trump, if he didn't think something was really serious here. He himself tried diplomacy, didn't want to go to war. He moved a third of the Navy over there for sure, because he thought there was something imminent going on, and he was concerned about that, but he would prefer not to go to war. This is a very risky thing he's done. But war is a risky business. And so he did it because he thought that the benefits of doing it would outweigh those risks. And I would humbly say that it's an unfortunate, you know, byproduct of war that young men die. You know, Sergeant Cody, who you showed earlier, he died for the United States of America and its national security, for the people of the country. And we should be very proud of him. But we also have to remember, as we remember him, that it's very difficult to fight wars. Trying to pull on the heartstrings of Americans every day by showing the young dead, it's an unfortunate thing. It's the most unfortunate thing. But these things happen, and they. They only happen because war is a very deadly business. And the president wouldn't have put us on this path unless he thought it was absolutely necessary. And, you know, you. You said earlier that. That this wasn't an imminent threat, or for 47 years, you know, we've been arguing with Iran, and this is not an, you know, an imminent threat. Well, how do we know that? Well, we don't. We can, we can surmise what's going on. But Iran was working on nuclear weapons. They had the option of foregoing their work on nuclear weapons. They wouldn't do it. What does that tell us? Well, it tells us that Iran is serious about being a regional power with nuclear weapons. Everyone says, well, this is just carrying out Israeli foreign policy. Well, it may be. Certainly the Israelis have an interest in this, but so do the Saudis, so do the Qataris, so do the. The other emirate states. No one wants Iran to have nuclear weapons. And I would say when it comes to those nuclear weapons, the purpose of those was, you know, first and foremost, the United States, they're not going to use their nuclear weapons if they acquire them, and I've said before on the show, I think they already do, but they wouldn't use those against Israel. They knew if they use them against Israel, that would be met with nuclear retaliation against Iran. So it wasn't really in the equation that they were going to attack Israel. Who could they attack? Well, they could attack the United States, and they weren't going to do it from the territory of Iran. Their own Iranian nuclear strategic doctrine is to be able to launch a nuclear ballistic missile from a ship, presumably off the coast of the United States, in order to attack either an American city or to use it as an EMP weapon against the United States. Now, the mere fact that that hasn't happened before now is not at all indicative of what could happen in the future. And President Trump had certain intelligence he must have to lead him to believe that that was going to happen sometime in the future and that he wasn't going to let that progress any further, hence where we are today. So for all the folks who, you know, think this is a neocon project, President Trump's not a neocon. I'm not. And I don't even think the people around him are necessarily neocons. They're people who are looking at the hard facts of the Iranian nuclear program and discerning that they cannot have nuclear weapons which they will use first and foremost against the United States.

[Natalie]

I'm curious because Senator, I believe it was Senator Cotton was on Fox, I think, a day or two ago, and why I brought up the word imminent. It was, I think, actually quite an interesting community note on X where the senator was talking about the reason why we went in is that Iran has been an imminent threat for 47 years, which I do think is sort of an oxymoronic sentence. Of course, I understand, and I agree with your assessment. I don't think the president is a neocon either. But I'm curious then, how you square this idea of imminent threat with the other rhetoric and documents that we've seen from the administration, whether it was the national defense strategy, the national security strategy, or even a lot of the press post Midnight Hammer saying that Iran was as weak, as vulnerable, as degraded. In some cases, they even use the word obliterated as we've ever seen, which for me makes it a little hard to square that positioning of Iran with then this was going to be the time that they would attack. And I would also tack on there. I'll ask you a couple questions and you just engage how you'd like. But who's to say, say too that going in like this, when a clear successor, it's clearly not a Venezuela type operation. I also do think the fact that it's an Islamic theocracy complicates the Venezuela template a bit, at least from like a sleeper cell perspective. But who's to say that changing the regime there even necessarily results in a non nuclear or nuclear seeking state? Who's to say that we don't get a more radicalized Iran?

[Brian Kennedy]

Yeah, it's a great question, Natalie. It's a good observation too. Look, when, when we think of Venezuela, we didn't change the regime in Venezuela, we changed the mind of the regime in Venezuela. So when the president says a Venezuela type operation or Venezuela type regime change, it's changing the mind of the regime that they're going to believe that attacking the United States is a good thing. Look, in Iran there is very, very little what you would call in American terms civil society, meaning people who, who form public groups, who can understand the public good, who can work towards civil engagement and the production of a government that has the interests of the people at heart. That's not going to happen in Iran. And the failure of the neocons was believing that they could create that in the Middle east, in Iraq and elsewhere. That was a gross failure. So I can see why many young folks think that the use of American military power and engagement is a bad idea. Because our past history prior, I will say to President Trump, has been to use American military force and American military power in a most ineffective and frankly, stupid way. Thinking we were going to democratize Iraq was a very stupid idea. We're not going to democratize Iran. We're not going to create in Iran any kind of, you know, free society. That's not our job. That is the job of the Iranian people. But even then that's not likely to happen because they don't have a civil society from whence this will come. So you're going to get some kind of Islamic theocracy probably, or a Islamic military dictatorship. Quite likely. That is, that is the quite likely outcome. But it will be a dictatorship that has the interests of Iran at heart. And that interest in Iran will be not to attack the United States, not to build nuclear weapons and to keep to themselves. And so we should have. And I don't think the President has any illusions that we're going to create a free society in Iran. He does have the very clear objective of making sure that in Iran you have A regime that believes nuclear weapons are a very bad idea and that trying to kill Americans is an even worse idea. And so from that point of view, this seems, you know, perfectly consistent with the America first approach of MAGA and actually a rejection of neocon ideology. And look, Lindsey Graham is a ridiculous human being. And so, you know, the fact that the people who are for the war are, many of them, are ridiculous human beings doesn't make the objectives of this military engagement in Iran wrong or in any way, you know, discount what it is President Trump's trying to achieve here.

[Natalie]

I'm curious your perspective, both the kind of, you know, du jour de fact, actually what the admin is pursuing, but then your opinion too, when you talk about these sort of security guarantees, you know, maybe accepting some sort of Islamic theocratic regime, but as long as they're not explicitly seeking to attack the United States, there's some form of compromise there. Do you think that the kind of calculus for that also includes Israel and our allies and partners in the region, or do you think that that is something that President Trump is negotiating purely from it's only about America, or do you think our partners, junior partners, everyone to call them in the region, are also part of that too?

[Brian Kennedy]

I think President Trump is doing first and foremost what is good for America. And the fact that you hear these stories of Israel not knowing what these back channel deals are or potential, potential negotiations are is a sign that the President's going to do what he thinks is best. It may benefit Israel in the long run, it may benefit Saudi Arabia in the long run. But his first and only interest here is what's good for the United States. And I, I, I really, I can't, I can't. I'm a little, you know, the young folks within the MAGA movement who don't understand that I think simply don't have enough. I would encourage them to look deeper into what the President's objectives are and not have a reflective sort of dislike of military engagements because they think it will lead to a broader war. And let me say this may lead to a broader war, and I hope it doesn't. But you know, we've been talking on this, on War Room for some time about us being in World War iii and this is one front in World War iii. And you simply can't, you can't dismiss this notion that the President sees it that way and that he wants to take Iran off the table because China, because Iran is a proxy of communist China. And so the, the communist Chinese interest here has to be first and foremost and frankly, I'm worried about Islamic terrorism in the United States. I'm also worried about the 200,000 Chinese men of military age who look like Special Forces who came over during the Biden administration and what they could be doing in our country and what they are doing in our country, as you pointed out in your own investigative reporting.

[Natalie]

Brian, we're going to have to jump to break shortly. I want to, I want to hold you through because you're just ahead of me. I want to get to the China angle on all this. I will say I was recently on the campus of Stanford and I actually saw a Chinese national jogging there wearing a PLA T shirt. So that doesn't tell you the threat that we face then. I don't know. It does. Brian, if you can hang with us, I love asking questions like this. I agree young people maybe have a bit of a reflexive kind of trigger point on this. But, but I think it's important to ask these questions and get the information out there so everyone in the audience can can hear some different viewpoints. Warren, we'll be right back. More Brian Kennedy on the China threat. All things are on right after this break.

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[Stephen K. Bannon]

Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

[Natalie]

You're back in the war room. We've still got Brian Kennedy with us. Brian, I want to sort of let you pick up where you left off, but I just want to pose sort of the broader question, obviously, how does this implicate the prc? I think the Taiwan question, I'll give you this to start you off for what is it? I think every day, for the past, I don't know how many years, the Chinese Air Force, they've done their military kind of air incursions over Taiwan, I think in Tainan every day, multiple times a day. And I think for the last three days at least, open source intelligence is showing us that they've stopped. I'm curious how you interpret that more broadly the paradigm. Do you think America's actions, whether it's Iran or Venezuela, emboldens the PRC to be more aggressive with Taiwan, or do you think it shows them that the United States is not going to mess around and put up with any of their kind of attempts to meddle there?

[Brian Kennedy]

Yeah, that's a great question too, Natalie. I think what that shows is that the Chinese don't want to escalate things right now, that this is a very dangerous time in world history. We have a lot of our military over in that part of the world. We're doing very serious things in Iran. And the Chinese do not want to do the kind of things to provoke us right now. And so let us hope that cooler heads prevail, as they say, and that China, China sees this as, as something that's being done in America's interest. And then they're not going to do the kind of things to provoke us, especially vis a vis Taiwan. But you know, I want to underscore the fact that, that these things are, are not desirable to have done. But the President did it because he thought he had to do it. And so there's something bigger going on here. This is a much bigger war. And him going after Maduro in Venezuela is, in my mind, designed to take a Chinese proxy off the table. If he does go after Cuba or encourage regime change in Cuba, that won't be a neocon expeditionary kind of engagement. That will be because the President believes China can't have a proxy or the Russians can't have a proxy in Cuba. And that's American interest being defined and operated on, rather than some kind of neocon democratizing the world kind of approach.

[Natalie]

Brian, I'm asking you tough questions, but it's because I respect you very much. I think you're one of the best guests we have on War Room. But I'm curious how you square the idea of using kinetic action to take Chinese proxies off the map with then the administration also, for instance, you know, canceling ARM sales or ARM transfers to Taiwan or green lighting the H200 chips, kind of giving them some of our most sensitive and high value tech transfers. How do you see that kind of squaring with this more kinetic force to take out Chinese proxies?

[Brian Kennedy]

I. Well, that's, that's. That, you know, that's a great question too. The, the administration should not be selling our advanced chips to Communist China. I'm for decoupling a systematic decoupling with communist China entirely, as you know. And I'm for selling arms to Taiwan and doing it at a rapid pace. And our so called military industrial complex needs to be more industrial and industrious in producing munitions for us so that we can sell them to whatever country that is in our interest to sell them to. And so, yes, the administration should be more consistent when it comes to that. They should be making sure that Communist China does not have access to US Capital markets. They shouldn't have Communist China being able to buy up U.S. farmland. They should be buying back from Communist China the farmland they've already bought. We need to get much more serious about Communist China. And in the meantime, we have to use kinetic action to make sure that Communist China's proxies around the world are defanged, as Captain Fennell said yesterday, from being able to harm the United States. And look, we talk about nuclear war and nuclear weapons where the, the, the cause for President Trump going into Iran. And because we've not had a nuclear war doesn't mean there won't be one someday. And President Trump is trying to avoid that. And he only would have done that if he believed that whatever, whatever track Iran was on would have led to that eventuality or that they already had them and he wanted to degrade their capability of ever being able to use them. And so as, as undesirable as many of these things are, they were done for a reason and a very serious reason. And he wouldn't have done it unless that reason was very serious.

[Natalie]

And Brian, we've got about two minutes left. I want you just to sort of sketch what you think the contours of both a politically positive but also geopolitically safe kind of off ramp or timeline would look like, specifically in Iran, what that kind of level of escalation would be. What is the kind of crescendo. Are we there yet? Are you expecting more action there? Or when do you think the administration or by when do you think they need to colloquially we would call it get out.

[Brian Kennedy]

Here's the easy answer. I don't know. The administration has certain objectives when it comes to degrading their military capability. I would say that we should leave. When the Iranian regime, whoever that is, believes they've been defeated, not only defeated, but that they know they've been defeated and that they believe deep within them that it is a bad idea to think about attacking the United States in whatever way, whatever way they can. Look, for 47 years they've committed textbook act of acts of war against the United States. Whether it was taking our embassy or using surrogates to kill our men in Beirut or you know, the final pre flight training of the 911 hijackers was in Iran.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Brian Kennedy]

After September 11th, Osama bin Laden's family lived in Iran. Osama bin Laden diaries have, you know, a lot of correspondence with his colleagues about we don't like the Iranians but they provide us money and intelligence and then they provide them munitions in Iraq to kill Americans. So they've been doing this for a long time.

[Natalie]

I hate to, I hate to interrupt you but we're coming up against the end of show and I'm actually tossing to Steve so don't worry Warren Posse, you get Steve back. But Brian, if people want your commentary on this, which I know they do, where can they go to follow you and get your writings?

[Brian Kennedy]

Thank you Natalie. On X it's Brian T. Kennedy. One on Getter and Truth Social is Brian T. Kennedy and they can go to presentdangerchina.org thanks. Great to be with you this morning.

[Natalie]

A must follow. Brian, thank you for joining. Thank you for putting up with my questions. I think discussions like this are important. You know, America first, it's quite an explosive term but we're here to defend that in the war room. Steve Bannon picking up after the break. Have a good one.

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