Podcast Summary: Bannon's War Room – Episode 5261: The Mutiny In NATO

Date: March 31, 2026
Host: Steve Bannon
Guests: Ben Harnwell (Rome-based international affairs analyst), David Zier (War Room Pentagon correspondent)
Main Theme:
An in-depth discussion of the growing fractures within NATO and among traditional U.S. allies during the ongoing Middle East conflict, with a focus on Europe's reluctance to share military and financial burdens, the reaction of Arab allies, and the consequences for American strategy and global security.

Episode Overview

This urgent and combative episode centers on what Steve Bannon characterizes as a "mutiny" among NATO and U.S. allies amidst a widening Middle Eastern war. Bannon and his guests analyze European countries’ reluctance to participate militarily or financially, the impact on U.S. operations and logistics, and the broader implications, including the strain on U.S. military resources and the future of U.S.-European alliances. The episode also touches on the ways American domestic policy and financial security are affected by the global turmoil.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The State of Allied (Non)Support

[00:51 – 09:35]

• Bannon’s Rant on Allied Burden-Sharing:
  Bannon opens by venting frustration at the lack of concrete commitments from allies, referencing historical U.S. support in World Wars and the Cold War:

  • “We've underwritten this, and as President Trump said...if the number’s $200 billion, we want the hat to add up to $200 billion. And by the way, we want to see where your armies are.” [02:24]

• Gulf States and Israel Holding Back:
  Trump has pushed Arab states to fund and staff the campaign, but they are refusing boots on the ground; Israel pleads overcommitment due to Lebanon.

  • “Israel came back yesterday...officials said we got our hands full in this ground war in Lebanon. We're not going to be of any help. But thanks for, you know, thanks for asking, but...no combat troops.” [03:47]

• Europe’s Stand-Back Position:
  Bannon singles out European nations, especially Spain and Italy, for obstruction:

  • “The British are in the mumble tank. Nothing happening there. France, nothing happening there. The Italians, the Spanish...the Spanish are going out of their way to kind of hurt us...” [04:38]

2. A Breakdown of the "Mutiny": Dumping Treasuries and Blocking U.S. Military Movement

[06:36 – 13:27]

• European Financial Pushback:

  • Ben Harnwell notes $82 billion in U.S. Treasuries have been sold by allies like Turkey and India post-February 25th.
    • “Since February 25th...nations have sold $82 billion worth of treasuries. Now, it's difficult to pinpoint who exactly has been doing this.” – Ben Harnwell [07:23]

• Spanish and Italian Airspace/Bases Closure:

  • Spain has forbidden U.S. military use of joint bases and airspace for operations in the Middle East, complicating logistics.
    • “Spain has closed its airspace to US military flights heading to the Middle East.” – Ben Harnwell [08:58]
  • Italy, under Meloni, cites procedural grounds for denying U.S. bomber landings, seen as thin political cover.
    • “Italy said no. And Italy cited its treaties with the US. There is a legitimate question...why the Department for War hadn't put in the phone calls...But beyond that, it's simply a procedural excuse masking a political refusal.” – Ben Harnwell [24:46]

• Significance:

  • Bannon and Harnwell stress this is an unprecedented step for supposed “allies,” equating airspace closures to acts associated with military antagonism.
    • “Closing your airspace to another country is what you do in military conflict...you don't block airspace to your own allies.” – Ben Harnwell [11:51]

3. Broader Strategic and Political Implications

[13:27 – 27:11]

• Alliance Strains and the Ghost of Ukraine:

  • European reluctance is attributed to political unpopularity and prior strategic overcommitments, mainly in Ukraine.
  • “They realize that getting their countries involved in a third Gulf War in as many decades is politically suicidal.” – Ben Harnwell [39:58]

• Unintended Consequences:

  • European nations’ military capacity for the Middle East is diminished by commitments to Ukraine, especially Patriot missile systems.
    • “Nobody...has excess capacity anymore because it's all been used up in Ukraine.” – Ben Harnwell [48:03]

4. U.S. On-the-Ground Military Realities and Troop Protection

[16:29 – 39:07]

• Operational Readiness and Logistics:

  • Bannon and Pentagon correspondent David Zier discuss intensive training, dynamic targeting, and the heightened pace of operations (thousands of sorties and targets in the first month).
    • “The tempo here is pretty astounding. 30 days into this, I think it's 11 or 12,000 sorties...another 3,500 or 4,000 go and they're always coming up.” – Steve Bannon [16:30]

• Bunker, Air Defense, and Dispersal:

  • U.S. military is prioritizing dispersion and fortification due to the threat of Iranian drones and missiles, but the risk to expensive assets remains.
    • “...the defense of our troops and our assets is max. I will say on some of those other assets...one of the biggest principles you learn in the military is to not set predictable patterns.” [30:39 – 32:08]
  • “You go to war with the army you have, not with the one you wish you had.” – David Zier recalling Rumsfeld, expressing concern for troop safety [32:20]

• Media/Military Communication:

  • Questions arise regarding the Pentagon’s reluctance to share specifics for operational security and how much the American public is told.
    • “A little bit, we're all kind of in the fog of war here and a little bit of an abyss...” – Steve Bannon [33:57]

5. Where Does the Coalition Go from Here? Competing Assessments

[39:18 – 41:38]

• Trump’s Options and Pressure on Allies:
  • Trump reportedly seeks European and Arab “step up,” threatening to pull back U.S. protection as leverage.
    • “The President's laid it out today. He's saying...It's time now for somebody to pick up the slack. And he's looking for NATO...” – Steve Bannon [27:11]
• Optimism vs. Realism:
  • David Zier is “pretty optimistic” Europe will eventually help, while Harnwell is “doubtful,” seeing only limited bilateral cooperation at best.
    • “Frankly, I find it difficult that the President's going to succeed in getting any sort of bilateral agreements country by country to come on board on this.” – Ben Harnwell [39:58]
    • “I think there will be some success for Donald Trump in putting together a coalition to target this. But how many weeks out will oil hit $150 plus? There's a lot of questions here...” – David Zier [37:02]

6. Economic and Geopolitical Fallout

[41:38 – 50:49]

• Energy Markets and American Patience:

  • The crisis is driving up oil prices, with further hikes threatened if Europe does not step up.
    • “Brent oil is $118 a barrel right now. It's going to go higher if they don't see. If President Trump says, hey, look, it's your problem. You got to step up here also...” – Steve Bannon [41:39]

• Ukraine’s Diminishing Leverage:

  • Zelensky's attempts to make Ukraine relevant to the conflict are seen as faltering amid Western fatigue.
    • “President Zelensky has been...trying desperately to insert himself into this narrative as well, and largely failing.” – Ben Harnwell [48:03]

• Strategic Exhaustion of the West:

  • Previous commitments to Ukraine have left major allies stretched too thin to immediately support U.S. operations elsewhere.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bannon, setting the tone:
  “This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people.” [00:02]
• Ben Harnwell, on Spain’s airspace ban:
  “Closing your airspace to another country is what you do in military conflict...you don't block airspace to your own allies.” [11:51]
• Steve Bannon, emphasizing betrayal:
  “For the Spanish government to say...we're not going to allow you to use our airspace...this is folks, it's the great de-masking, the unmasking.” [10:34]
• On military risk:
  “You could bomb the snot out of a country, but unless you’ve got ground forces, you can’t change it.” – David Zier, quoting his grandfather [37:02]
• Ben Harnwell, on European motivation:
  “They realize that getting their countries involved in a third Gulf War in as many decades is politically suicidal...” [39:58]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Opening Monologue and Context Setting: [00:02 – 06:36]
• Ben Harnwell on Financial and Military Mutiny: [06:36 – 13:27]
• Spain and Italy's Airspace/Bases Issue Deep Dive: [09:35 – 13:27]
• Discussion on Military Tactics, Sorties & Logistics: [16:29 – 20:00]
• Conversation on How U.S. Troops are Protected: [30:12 – 34:49]
• Debate on Pentagon Transparency: [33:37 – 34:49]
• Strategic Outlook: Can Trump Build a Real Coalition?: [39:18 – 41:38]
• Economic Consequences – Oil, Ukraine, Depletion: [41:38 – 50:49]
• Ben Harnwell’s Final Assessment and Wrap-Up: [47:28 – 50:49]

Episode Tone

• Combative, Urgent, and Analytical:
  Bannon strikes a warning bell about Western alliances, channeling frustration and skepticism toward European resolve.
• Cynical Realism:
  Harnwell offers a “beady, cynical” European perspective, highlighting the political calculations of NATO members.
• Vivid Military Context:
  Zier brings concrete Pentagon reporting and queries about troop safety, echoing themes of sacrifice and risk.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Deep Fractures in the Western Alliance:
  The U.S. is increasingly alone as key European and regional allies resist military or financial involvement in the conflict.
• Geopolitical and Economic Fallout Looms:
  Energy markets are volatile, and Western military resources are stretched thin, in part due to Ukraine.
• Allied Trust and Strategic Posture Reconsidered:
  Reluctance by nations like Spain and Italy to allow even logistical support signals a profound shift in alliance perceptions and viability.
• Uncertainty for the U.S. and Trump’s Options:
  Whether Trump can force real burden-sharing or will be compelled to retrench remains unresolved; the coming weeks are described as pivotal.

For further details and real-time analysis, follow:

• Ben Harnwell on GETTR
• David Zier on X (@avezier)