WarRoom Battleground EP 1018: WarRoom Takes A First Look At “Pope” Leo’s First Encyclical — So Many Missed Opportunities

Summary

War Room Battleground EP 1018: A First Look at “Pope” Leo’s First Encyclical — So Many Missed Opportunities

Date: May 27, 2026
Host: Steve Bannon (WarRoom.org), Ben Harnwell
Guest: Frank Walker (Editor-in-Chief, Canon 212)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the release of “Pope” Leo’s first encyclical, Magnifica Humanitas (“Magnificent Humanity”), coinciding with the 135th anniversary of Rerum Novarum, the seminal document of Catholic social teaching. Ben Harnwell and Frank Walker offer a critical, wide-ranging analysis: they contrast the encyclical’s intent and content with that of previous papal writings, debate its relevance and political undertones, and discuss its implications for Catholic doctrinal debates, AI ethics, and the future of Church authority. The later part of the episode shifts to commentary on the upcoming Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) episcopal consecrations, considered the most significant development in traditional Catholicism since 1988.

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Main Theme

A skeptical and pointedly political assessment of Pope Leo’s encyclical on AI, work, and human dignity, and its place in the modern Catholic Church, followed by a review of the ongoing SSPX traditionalist movement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Enclyclical’s Purpose, Reception, and Framing

• Magnifica Humanitas garners more attention than recent encyclicals, especially from secular and progressive media—though Harnwell argues this is "for the wrong reasons” (00:54).
• Written on the anniversary of Rerum Novarum, but Harnwell questions whether these commemorative encyclicals obscure, rather than clarify, essential social teaching (02:21):

  “Every time there’s a keystone anniversary ... they drop another encyclical on top of it to muddy the waters … to distract.”

• Skepticism of the Vatican’s attempt at contemporary relevance:

  “It seems to me [like a] desperate attempt for an irrelevant hierarchy to make a stab, a dash at relevance on the news cycle.” (03:56)

2. Political Instrumentalization and AI Focus

• Walker draws parallels to Francis’ encyclical Laudato si’:

  “When that came out, that was a political tool for the left ... this seems to be a new attempt at that, now with a focus on AI.” (05:12)

• The Vatican launches commissions and events with AI industry figures such as representatives from Anthropic, seeking to place itself “between management and labor” (06:21).
• Discussion of the encyclical's engagement with the secular, especially progressive, political agenda:

  “This is a political war. … They want to be inserted as another layer of management on everything AI touches.” (07:40)

• The hosts note AI—a tool, not a movement—and transhumanism—an ideology—are often conflated; both, in their view, are misdiagnosed by the Church (18:53).
• Harnwell identifies a contradiction between the Vatican’s professed care for “the ordinary working guy” (through concern about AI and jobs) and its support for positions (like immigration) which, he claims, undercut working-class prospects (08:04).

3. Critique of Church Authority and Conversion

• Harnwell: “The antidote to [AI and transhumanism] isn’t papal encyclicals ... [but] faith in Jesus Christ offering up your will to God.” (17:55)
• Skeptical of the post-Vatican II Church’s tendency to politicize doctrine and reduce conversion to “identification” rather than authentic spiritual change:

  “The post-conciliar Church ... sees everything through a political lens ... What all Christians should be involved with is preaching the gospel and bringing people on an individual basis to conversion in Jesus Christ.” (23:51)

• Walker underscores the irony of the Church, in his view divorced from “reality,” embracing “artificial intelligence” as a reflection of its own “artificial” doctrinal process (20:22).

4. Was the Encyclical Written with AI Tools?

• Harnwell shares results from GPT analysis:

  “70 to 85% chance that AI tools assisted portions of composition and editing.” (21:56)

• Discussion of Cardinal “Kissy” Fernandez as the likely primary author—also accused of self-quotation and producing dense, unwieldy texts (22:58).
• Walker: “Maybe AI was part of it ... they’re an AI Church in so many ways.” (23:49)

5. The Role of Laity and Conversion

• Repeated calls for focus on formation, not politics, as the Church’s primary mission.

6. Reactions from U.S. Political Figures

• Divergent opinions in U.S. leadership:
  • Secretary Doug Burgum: Skeptical of the Pope’s involvement in tech debates (13:05)
  • VP JD Vance: Praises the papal analysis as “profound,” seen by Harnwell as evidence of his “convert’s enthusiasm” (12:55, 13:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Vatican’s AI Efforts:

  “They are dialoguing with the actual imperilers of the dignity ... What they want to do is throw a monkey wrench in all sorts of productivity.”
  —Frank Walker (06:21)

• On Progressive Motivations:

  “If [progressives] don’t have the cause, they have no purpose ... They’re inserting themselves in the issue.”
  —Frank Walker (10:23)

• On the Church and Artificial Reality:

  “What we have with Leo’s church and with Francis is an artificial reality ... they want to use [AI] to impose a reality on everybody.”
  —Frank Walker (20:22)

• On AI-Assisted Papal Writing:

  “It would be ironic if my AI agent GPT is accurate: 70 to 85% chance that AI Tools assisted in portions of composition or editing.”
  —Harnwell (23:51)

• On Church Mission and Formation:

  “...The Catholic church’s 100% mission was bringing souls to Jesus Christ and conversion. … Now it’s all politics.”
  —Harnwell (23:51)

• On Control Over AI:

  “We have control through our personal conversions. We’re dominant over these types of things. We don’t have to let them ruin our lives just because they’re powerful.”
  —Frank Walker, paraphrasing JD Vance (26:24)

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SSPX Episcopal Consecrations (31:07–end)

1. Who Are the New Bishops?

• Four new bishops: two French, one Swiss (age 53), one American (age 45, from Kansas, center of SSPX in the US) (33:02).
• Notable that the new bishops are unusually young, suggesting a strategy to “lock in” continuity for decades (39:07).

2. Analysis of SSPX’s Strategy

• Commentary on their selection signaling either a conservative, “unity”-oriented turn or an attempt to maintain independence from Rome by investing in a younger generation.
• Harnwell skeptical of the conciliatory language in Father Pagliarani’s (SSPX Superior) letter:

  “We say we’re doing this because it is essential. Unless ... he has in the back of his mind a hope that the Pope will say, oh, well, then if that is what you want to do, do it, and we won’t excommunicate you.” (37:13)

• Walker: The statement only makes sense if “state of emergency” justifies the action—“they want to preserve things the way they are” (38:01).

3. Wider Church Reaction

• Bishop Dominique Rey of France encourages dialogue and inclusion of traditionalists, in contrast to sharp criticism from Cardinals Müller and Burke (45:20).
• Rey:

  “We need to encourage initiatives ... to bring [young converts] close to the ancient Mass ... remain in dialogue and integrate traditionalists into church structures.” (45:20)

4. Call to Explore Tradition

• Harnwell encourages listeners—including “ordinary” Catholics and Protestants—to find and attend a Traditional Latin Mass, even once, for the experience (47:21).

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:54 – Enclyclical’s release: context, comparison with prior papal writings
• 05:12 – Political impact and attempts at relevance; AI and environmentalism analogized
• 08:04 – Contradictions in Church’s labor advocacy and immigration
• 12:55-13:23 – Political reactions: Burgum and JD Vance
• 17:55 – Faith vs. Papal encyclicals as antidote to AI/transhumanist hubris
• 20:22 – Critique: The Church as “artificial reality” embracing AI
• 21:56/23:51 – Possible AI involvement in drafting the encyclical
• 23:51 – Critique of post-Vatican II politicization
• 26:24 – Conversion as personal antidote to AI
• 31:07 – SSPX consecrations: youth, demographics, strategy
• 45:20 – Bishop Rey’s intervention: dialogue and integration for tradition
• 47:21 – Final call for exploration of traditional Catholic liturgy

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Conclusion

Tone: The episode is deeply skeptical, polemical, and often acerbic, combining deep ecclesiastical analysis with political insight in a conversational (at times sardonic) style.

For listeners:

• The encyclical is viewed not as a spiritual breakthrough but as another campaign in ongoing Vatican politicking, especially as it pertains to progressive causes and technology.
• The show also offers an inside look at the currents and anxieties among traditionalist Catholics—especially in the face of seismic changes, real or perceived, in clerical leadership and focus.

Signature moments:

• The ironies of a “Church of artificial reality” now pontificating about artificial intelligence;
• The recurring refrain that true renewal comes through conversion—not Vatican press releases;
• The sense, especially in commentary on the SSPX, of a historic juncture in the ongoing Catholic tradition wars.

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Transcript

[Steve Bannon]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going

[Frank Walker]

medieval on these people.

[Steve Bannon]

Reasons I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it.

[Harnwell]

I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.

[Frank Walker]

It's going to happen.

[Harnwell]

And where do people like that go to share the big lie? MAGA Media I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

[Frank Walker]

Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. War Room here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Harnwell]

Wednesday 27th of May, Anno Domini 2026. Harnwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room. Interesting show today, big event in the life of the Catholic Church and Catholics, which is the publication of an encyclical. We're discussing this in the first 25 minutes with our resident expert on all things Catholic, Frank Walker, chief editor in Chief of Canon 212. Frank, I'm looking at this encyclical here in front of me, Magnifica Humanitas. It's called Magnificent Humanity. Firstly, there are so many different reflections to make on this. Firstly, it's my impression that this has already attracted far more both interest pre publication and post publication than Francis's encyclicals, and certainly the last one, which sort of sank without a trace. Delexit Noss from October 2024. But I sort of think this has got more engagement, I think, with the secular news cycle, though I think largely for the wrong reasons. I'll ask you to talk me through the encyclical, what you think the takeaways are from this, and then let's just sort of give an analysis between the two of us on what our personal takes are to this encyclical. But what's it about? Pope Leo published it on the hundred and thirty fifth anniversary of Rerum Novarum, which was the start of the Catholic Church's foray into Catholic social teaching. It's the foundation stone, really, which isn't, you know, I sort of, with hindsight, I think it was that Even Leo, the 13th introduction here was, with hindsight, I say, was ill advised because it's set off so much now in the Catholic Church that we're fighting against every day. But, but it's, it wasn't Rerum Navarrum, wasn't the. It's not the progressive panacea that the liberals and progressives have been quite successful in rewriting popular opinion for it to be. It's quite strong on something which is extremely important to me in terms of politics, which is property rights sort of flowing out from that. And yet every time we get a major anniversary Frank Walker in the life of the Church to actually look and analyze, apart from perhaps Cente's Imusanus of John Paul ii. But every time there's a keystone anniversary in the life of the church where we could go back and pluck out some of the things from Rerum Novarum which were interesting, they drop another encyclical on top of it to muddy the waters, kick sand over it and distract. And that's fundamentally one of my principal concerns. I'll talk through with you in the show today about this. It seemed my criticism. This one of my criticisms of this isn't so much the content and what is said, it's the fact that the Catholic Church is spending energy saying it. When I think some of these arguments could be made more effectively by the laity. And Steve Bannon's making these arguments all the time on the War Room, for example, that's one concern. And the second concern is that it seems to me rather desperate attempt for an irrelevant hierarchy to make a stab, a dash at relevance on the news cycle. Those are my. That's my opener, right, of why I'm extremely hesitant to embrace this encyclical. I want to hear what you have to say, though, on this.

[Frank Walker]

Well, I, I know that they're comparing it to rural Navarro from 100 years ago or so. And the liberals have always used that encyclical as an excuse to push policy. So that's what is important to why they love that encyclical from Leo XIII and why Leo chose a name Leo because of Raro Novarum. So this is the new one that they're throwing on top of it. But really, it seems to me to be sort of a new attempt at Laudato si, which was Francis's encyclopedal about global warming, about climate change. When that came out, that was a political tool for the left and it has had, I'd say, poor results. They've used it over and over and over again. But look at the status of the, of the whole environmental movement now, 10 years later, it hasn't really engaged like they would have liked. This in particular has something that they feel like they can get their handle on and they can engage with. So they're very hopeful about it. They want artificial intelligence. They want to be insert themselves in the middle of it. Sort of like. Sort of like a union would insert itself between the management and the labor, making a little place for them and becoming another layer of management when it comes to everything AI because AI touches AI is just the latest type of computing. And they've even enlisted somebody who's in the AI business. Ola Anthropic is the name of the company giving, you know, at the time of the release of this. Giving a speech in general but. And they're so happy we had Cardinal Cerny was up there and yesterday looking ridiculous. I mean he doesn't even look like a cardinal anymore. And talking about how wonderful it is that they've acted. They're dialoguing with the actual imperilers of the dignity, the people who imperil the dignity. See, they're the same people. What they want to do is throw a monkey wrench in all sorts of productivity and like they have all around the world. And this time they felt they've really got a handle on it because they are working with people in the AI business. But when you. When you read about this, this guy who from Anthropic, he's really crossed the Trump administration. See, you always have to go back to this is a political war. Ever since we've had Francis, it's a political war. And that's the whole point of this whole encyclical. And in the coming weeks we're going to see how they use it. And based on how they use it, you'll see what it's really all about.

[Harnwell]

This is a political war. Okay. And you said earlier that one of your concerns is that this encyclical gives something to Catholic progressives, right. To get their teeth into in terms of the political debate. You see, here's another one of my problems with the not just encyclical, everything that surrounds it. They announced last week that they were forming a papal commission. Right on, on, on AI. Is it. I find it somewhat fraudulent for the Pope to come out and try. As I say, it's a dash for relevance, I think because he's coming out and trying to position himself here as the champion of the ordinary working guy, right in the fear of the jobs apocalypse and what have you. But let's be honest. If he really cared about the employment opportunity of the ordinary regular guy, he, his Vatican and his institutional church would be leaving leading from the front of the possessions against the third world illegal invasion because nothing is destroying Jobs at the bottom rung of the employment ladder than being displaced from your job for someone who work for half your wage. Right, but they're not leading from the front of the anti invasion political force. They're leading from the front against that in favor of. Against those who are standing and making the difficult argument day to day in the right, in the, against the invasion. And they're leading in from the front in favor of the invasion. So they're the pretense here. How can you do that on the one hand and then push this kind of, this kind of document out, feigning, pretending to be the champion of the ordinary working guy? I don't get it.

[Frank Walker]

Well, they just need to have the cause. Just like all liberals. They have to have the cause. If they don't have the cause, they have no purpose. They're inserting themselves in the issue. You know, they, they talk about that in here. They talk about how it's going to, it's going to hurt jobs so much. But that's just like. Yeah, I mean like telephone operators, we don't need them anymore. You know, they, they want to promote people's job irrelevant and jobs that don't really help. Everybody wants things to be helpful. The real problem here is that they have enough of the electrical power and the infrastructure to support this. And yes, people need to work on it, need to collaborate on making sure that it's just. And it's human like they say, and it, it protects human dignity, but it will increase jobs. It'll just make people's jobs more efficient, more productive and more helpful. You know, it's going to be good for jobs, but they want to be able to stand in the way of it and stop it. You know, and it's the same with, with the wars with military. This anthropic guy, he tried to, he would not let them. He had military contracts and he would not provide the data information that the military needed. And he got smacked down by Pete Hegseth and you know, and the Interior Secretary, Dan Burgum is, I think his name is, he said, you know, I'm surprised that the Pope's even dabble in this, you know, comment on technology like this. But J.D. vance, the Catholic was very gushing and very positive about it. Oh, that's his job. You know, things develop. Doctrine develops with time. Right. And so we need to update our doctrine. We need to update our. Just, I mean you. He could not have been more gushing. That to me says that this is a real battle. They've picked A real battle. This is the battlefront. And he's going to be admit, he's going to admit the Pope has a right to say these things. But when it comes down to the actual field and the nitty gritty of crossing, you know, business people and the Trump administration and its agenda, you know, this just encyclical says just war needs to be updated. It doesn't really exist. They're going to hit the military. You can't use AI for military purposes. They say, well, we're supposed to just like drop bombs like in World War II and have them land on, on civilians, you know, and then get blown out of the sky. These are their great recommendations that they're going to have. But it's going to, it's going to be a battle and that's what they're trying to accomplish.

[Harnwell]

You're absolutely right on so many fronts that this is a battle. We'll hit the Doug Burkham and JD Interventions. Just a couple of minutes because I've got to do it's time of the show. Halfway in, we've got to do a quick shout out to our first sponsor, which is Birchgold, as always here on the War Room. And now I saw something in the, in the press this week. I saw something from, I think it was the St. Louis suggesting that the, that the, the U.S. debt wasn't 100% of what wasn't equivalent to 100% of the GDP. American GDP is actually equivalent to 120% GDP, which is absolutely astonishing. But the point is, folks, there's only one way to that your government is going to get itself out of this. How they're going to be able to continue to meet the $3 billion a day simply in interest rate repayments. And that figures growing. There's only one way to get out of that and it's not going to be in political terms. 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And that illustrates I think somewhat the splits within the administration right now on this which are going to. The splits which I think will only get wider. I mean I didn't know of JD Vance when he was still a Protestant, but I guess back in those days he might have had something more. You know, so many converts to conceal your Catholicism. They lose their edge when it comes to saying things and they just think identifying with the figure of the Pope is the heart and the essence of Catholicism. And it's really not Frank Walker that really sort of. Right. That's, that's, that's you. You gave me the segue now into, into what I really want to say about this encyclical and that I think, and this is really what highlights for me why it's all, it's not that it's wrong, it's that it's out of place. First of all, let's differentiate between AI and transhumanism. Okay. Often bunched together because of, because of course the trans humanist religion leans and is dependent to some extent on AI. But they are different phenomena. I would bracket for now at least still being largely the Tool, A tool much like any other, an impact, an important tool, a powerful tool, right? Transhumanism. And therefore as a tool it, its effectiveness will rotate around the human agent that is directing it. With regards to transhumanism, that is I, I think just spiritual hubris, spiritual pride, plain and simple, with a heavy Luciferian Satanic or Satanic element thrown in. The antidote to both of those phenomena, transhumanism and AI isn't papal encyclicals. It's, it's the misdirection of the human heart and the, what I think modern theologians will call affectivity. Right? St. Augustine would have called it affect us, which I think is the correct, the more broader, correct theological, philosophical term. But the problems here for both tools and ambitions, and I'm talking about AI transhumanism, they are, they are emanations of disordered human desire. And the antidote to that is faith in Jesus Christ, right? That transcends Catholicism, it transcends evangelicalism and the splits between Catholicism and Protestantism, right. This is something that is so elemental. Faith in Jesus Christ offering up your will to God is the antidote to these. I think it's phenomena.

[Frank Walker]

I think it's very interesting that, that they're, that they're so heavy on this idea of artificial intelligence because that requires an artificial reality. You have to have a reality intelligence is, is processing data of reality and making good conclusions. And with Leo church, I mean a church would be integral to that. That's the point of the, of the church to tell you the reality for all the way, the spiritual reality and the physical, the reality of the past and the future of our whole lives and after we die, that's reality. But what we have with Leo's church and with Francis is an artificial reality. And so they, they're very excited about having a artificial intelligence because they want to use that to impose a reality on, on everybody and the way. And create this fake kind of thinking. And they really want to be ahead of the game and involved in it right away. Chris Jackson, in his response to this release, he had a great point that he made at the end of his piece. The, the Synodal Catholic Church under LEO is, is already like an artificial intelligence algorithm. Catholic doctrine and teaching go in one end and always something new and, and false comes out at the other end. So they're, they're really in this same business and they're just expanding on what they've been doing already.

[Harnwell]

You know that I asked Chat GPT to tell me the probability that the new you know what you just said there about the church and everything being. And quoting Chris Jackson, the, the one and only Chris Jackson reminded me of some research that I did. I asked my GPT agent to. I fed in the whole encyclical and I said tell me the probability that the new Encyclopedia was written AI. And this is, this is what it said. It said there was a 0 to 10% chance that it was primarily generated by AI and near certainty that humans controlled the intellectual architecture. But get this 70 to 85% chance that AI tools assisted portions of composition and editing. So Frank Walker, make of that what you will.

[Frank Walker]

Well, it's out. What they're saying out there is that Cardinal Kissy Fernandez is primarily responsible for writing this and he's been the producer of so much what they came out in the Francis era and so much even quoting. He's actually quoting himself. So whatever process he's used, it's four times as big as word for word as Rome navarro and even J.D. vance says he's just sort of red bits and pieces. I don't. You know, you should be able to have. Be able to read an encyclical. It shouldn't be absolutely impenetrable in order for a person should be able to make sense out of it. But that's not the point. The point is to use it as a tool that they can pick and choose from things here and there and that's why it's like this. So yeah, maybe AI was, was part of it because they're an A. They're an AI church in so many ways and they don't.

[Harnwell]

That would be.

[Frank Walker]

People read their answer.

[Harnwell]

That would be. That would be ironic, would it not? That would. That would be ironic if, if my AI agent GPT is accurate in that analysis. Let me go to that figure once again. Right. 70 to 85 chance that AI tools assisted. And I quote my own AI here. 70 to 85 chance that AI Tools assisted portions of composition or editing. Look, in the two minutes before we go to the break, I just want to make this point and I don't want to come back to banging on the drum yet again about the second Vatican Council, but I will make this observation before the council, the Church, the Catholic church was. Its 100% mission was bringing souls to Jesus Christ and conversion. Right. That lifelong process of conversion via formation. The post conciliate Church, because he's not fundamentally interested in the faith and sees everything through a political lens, is interested in conversion to the extent that people self Identify people, identify as Catholic. That's what it thinks conversion entails, right? And it's not Evangelicals understand this. Most novus order. Catholics seem to have forgotten it. But what all Christians should be involved with is, is preaching the gospel and bringing people on an individual basis to conversion in Jesus Christ. When, when that happens, all the things that come out of that can then be dealt with, like the order of the affections. Those things that you desire, that you love, that you want, those things that, that change how you think. Because, because you, you love certain things so much, they change how you think and how you act. Right. As they should. But if you are loving and desir things, then that will, that will, that will poison everything else that comes out of that. Right? So the real solution is to return to formation on a one by one basis of the laity of priests, of bishops, of cardinals, of popes, to the rule and law of the kingdom of Jesus Christ. What this is is a political viewing of political problems and giving political solutions to it fundamentally. And there's nothing more post conciliar than that, I think. Frank Walker, 30 seconds.

[Frank Walker]

J.D. vance doesn't make the exact point, but he says, I stopped Twitter for Lent. Being Catholic and being Christian is great through things like Lent, and I may stay off it forever. I'm not on X anymore. And that's the way you should look at AI. He doesn't say that, but he's saying it in the same article. Yeah, we have control through our personal conversions. We're dominant over these types of things. We don't have to let them ruin our lives just because they're powerful. This is a powerful tool. It's a great thing. And it's great that the country is supporting it. And with our Christian understanding, we can use it to make everybody happy.

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[Frank Walker]

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[Harnwell]

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[Frank Walker]

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[Harnwell]

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of the new pin.

[Harnwell]

Welcome back. I think what we're going to have to do, Frank Walker, listening to your analysis on this encyclical, because it is it's very long, is spend some time reading through it, underlining, digesting it, which I would never do to a Pope Francis in encyclical because life is simply too short. But in order to refute some of these things on their own terms, perhaps speak to Steve and see if we can do a special roundtable on this, Because as you say, unlike a lot of encyclicals that are just here today, gone tomorrow, they capture a new cycle for 24 hours. This does deliberately drop material that exponents in the debate can use, that I say Catholics in public life can use to push an agenda one way or the other. And that's a very important thing here. So we'll follow this, we'll continue to study it, folks, and we'll come back with further insights on this. But in talking about where the Catholic Church went wrong post council, that leads us quite nicely into the news that we're following every Wednesday. Frank Walker, which is the big you know, this is the biggest event in traditional Catholicism since 1988, and that is the Lefebvrerists consecrations of the new bishops, which you and I were speaking about last Wednesday. We didn't know the names then. I mean, there'd been Some suggestions, I think on various sites on the Internet, but the Society of the sspx, the Lefebvrists, have published the four names of the guys who are going to be consecrated bishops. What's your take on this selection, Frank?

[Frank Walker]

Well, there's, there's not a whole lot that's been out on it so far, but the first thing that people have been saying about it is that they're young, their young bishops. You know, it's scary to release that information because you wonder if they'll be targeted. It was a few years ago that many SSPX priests and, and, and priors at the heads of seminaries were heads of a. You know, we were one central parish with lots of other parishes, satellite parishes around it, were targeted for all sorts of charges and by Church Militant. And I could see, I could. That's a press organization. I could see this happening to these guys. But they're looking at the four that they picked. The things that strike me are none of them are. Or that were in seminary at a time when Archbishop Lefabre, the founder, was started, who started the order. And he had a special saintly kind of charism. He wasn't there. And if they did go to the Econ Seminary, which was a central seminary for the SSPX and still is today, it was only after their, their, their, you know, bachelor's level kind of studies just at the tail end of it. And I'm also struck by the fact that some of them are very young. One of them's 36, one of them's 42. Some have. Some ran. A few of them ran actually our rectors and seminaries. But there's sort of an American English weight to it because one of them is completely American. And a couple of them don't, you know, don't. One of them only spe. English is all he speaks. So these are different things. It's heavily on the Americans. The 11 is the rector of the seminary in Virginia, which has a lot of seminarians and, and then teaches at that seminary. And he's a young one. He's born in 1990.

[Harnwell]

That's right. Let's go through them because they're only four. So you've got here, I think, because the SSPX is largely it's. It's emotional heart. His historical heart is in France. It is still large to this day, I think, a French movement. So they've got two French guys, one Swiss guy and an American. So the Swiss guy is 53. The American is 45, from Kansas, I

[Frank Walker]

know that's like the center of the SSPX for the United States. And he basically grew up in that town of St. Mary's which is like the planet SSPX.

[Harnwell]

Well, lest we forget, because some people incorrectly suggest. Incorrectly suggest that Pope Leo is the first North American Pope, which, putting aside whether he's a valid Catholic Pope, for one moment, he's not the first. I mean, even if he is, he's not the first North American Pope because the. As all informed Catholics will remember, Pope Michael of happy memory. Of happy memory. The late Pope Michael, born and bred in Kansas. French. Another French one is 42. And then the second French guy, born, as you say, in 1990. That's, that's after the, after the, the original consecration. So I think just before the, just before the death of Archbishop Lefebvre himself, that must have been. What was it, 91 or something? 92. So this guy totally, this, this guy's totally been formed in, in the, in the post Lefebvre era. I just want to draw out a couple of things. There's not, I don't really have that much to say about the four candidates. What's the expression? Candidates for episcopal consecration. And they all seem perfectly reasonable. I'm more interested in the letter that came out of Mensingen, the head, as this was where the HQ of the Lefebvreus is. You saw this letter, right, from Father Pagliarani, who, interestingly, who interestingly hasn't put himself on that list, which goes back, I think, who's the head of the, the Lefebvreist, which goes back to the Archbishop Lefebvre's original intention, that the Secretary General wouldn't be one of the bishops. Right. Bishop Felay, I think, is the notable exception to that. But this Archbishop Lefebvre really wanted the bishops to be in service to the community, to provide for the continuity of the sacraments and what have you, rather than being in the traditional leadership position. But going to the letter that accompanied the nominations, I just want to throw one extract at you and ask you for your quick takeaway on this. He says the Secretary General says in no way did these consecrations constitute a negation, a refusal or a challenge launched against the supreme plenary and immediate power of jurisdiction of the Vicar of Christ over the universal Church. And my response to that is, yeah, whatever. Because that is exactly what these consecrations are without papal approval. Right?

[Frank Walker]

Yes, that would be true if it weren't for the state of emergency that they use as justification and yeah, he felt the need to throw that out there.

[Harnwell]

Well, the show is a state of. There sure is a state of emergency, but that's because of the guy at the top of the apex. Right. The state of emergency is because of the Pope. I don't understand why you would put that simpering passage into this letter. We say we're doing this because it is essential. Unless he thinks, and this is what I want to ask you for, unless his strategy is by saying this, putting all the simpering language into the letter he has at the back of his mind, and a hope that the Pope will say, oh, well, then if that's what you want to do, do it, and we won't, we won't excommunicate you.

[Frank Walker]

I don't know. I have the same questions myself about the, the choice of young men for bishops. This, this one, Hanape, is just, really just a, a metaphysics professor and dogma. Why did they pick bishops that could last for many, many years? They expect this situation in relationship to the church to go on for another 40 years. I, I think that they're, I think they would like to preserve things the way they are. And so I, like, like you said, they're covering any, any, all possibilities of being able to be pursed further away from the Church. And that, you know, that's why I think that Bishop Dominique Rey's intervention, where he said the people, they need to integrate them and make sure they keep them with the sspx, is so important. It's important for them to be connected alongside Leo's church and that. I know, I know that's the way that they feel about it. They want to be. They don't want to be pushed completely out into the darkness. They want to be there somehow. So maybe that's what you're, maybe that's why he's saying these things that you're calling a simpering. It does sound simpering to a lot of people.

[Harnwell]

It's, it's, it's great point, Frank, that you raise that. What's the strategy here of picking such young guys? It's like when presidents nominate justices to the Supreme Court. Right. Associate justices to the Supreme Court. It's a lifetime appointment. And because you never know how long you're gonna have the Senate for, this is like, for whichever president does the nomination, let's go for the youngest person possible, because at least that way we can lock in their presence. Even if we lose the White House and all the Senate, at least we can get this guy locked in for many decades. So that makes us a point that you, that you mentioned. Why go for people deliberately so young as this present crop of bishops, unless the strategy is to try to lock them in for whatever they hope in terms of rapprochement with the, yes, with the Vatican. Which is a very bad, which is a very bad sign if that's really what they're working towards.

[Frank Walker]

Still, after all this time, there's another bad sign out there too. One prominent commenter said that this, these guys would be more inclined to unity and not break away. Bishops like Bishop Williamson and you know, a couple decades ago, just recently died, he broke away not for not being Catholic, he was Catholic. But, but these guys are going to be in unity. And that, that sounds frightening to me too. Are they going to be malleable, young, controllable? Because every day the Pope Leo goes on about unity, unity, unity, but it doesn't ever mean unity with goodness or good or unity with truth. So yeah, there are some, it's, you have to be suspicious because the situation is so important. You know, these, these men are holding all this tradition of the Catholic Church, the ancient Mass, the doctrine, all of it in, in certain hands and how, however they surf that, however they connect it to what, you know, used to be the faithful church in the Catholic Church. I, I, whatever they feel like they have to do, I understand. You know, yeah, they're, they're growing and they're still there. And it was the fact that they did this in 1988, that they're still there today and they don't sound like they're ready to compromise in any way. But this, this political business.

[Harnwell]

Well, I hope so, I hope so. I had sort of hoped under the present leadership that there was a breaking away of the strategy of Bishop Fellow, which I think was, I personally think was disastrous for the sspx. They tried it, they lived through it. Hopefully they won't walk down that path again of being obsessed by having a political reunification with Rome. Until Rome first. As Lefebvre always said correctly, before we have dialogue with Rome, Rome needs to re, embrace the traditional Catholic faith. We've got something just, I think an interesting intervention because you just mentioned Bishop Ray of France. But let's first do a quick recap of Birch Gold's contact details. Text BANHAM to 989-898 these are times of turbulence. If you're looking at the stock market, it's going up and down all the time. Gold is a reliable hedge and has been so for 5,000 years. A reliable hedge, especially in times of turbulence and in terms of the federal government coming after your taxes, if you have issues there, if you receive notifications, if threatenings and what have you. And you want some independent advice to help you talk through what your options are, because there are, there are things you can do. But putting the IRS's letters in the top drawer in the kitchen and forgetting about it in it isn't one of the things that should be on your list. If you want sensible, productive things that you might be able to do, find out what your options are. Call Tax Network USA because they are offering right now completely free IRS research and discovery call to show you exactly where you stand and what they can stop before it's too late. Call 1-800-958-1000. Once again, 1-800-958- 1000 or visit tnusa.com Bannon for your free discovery call with Tax Network USA. We'll give those numbers out on the show. As always, constantly, you might keep a pad and pencil by your armchair as you're watching the war room, just to jot down these numbers and to call after the show. Frank Walker, Dominic Ray Bishop Ray was one of the great, I think, outstanding supporters of tradition. He was removed in 2025, if I'm not mistaken, by the late unlamented Pope Francis. He's come out with a strong statement, I think, all things considered. Correct me with regards to the SSPX consecrations correctly. Tell me what he said in in the closing minutes of the show, final few or so minutes, but correct me if I'm wrong, because what he said here, at least in this statement, is very different from what most of the trad bishops, tradincks pocket bishops are saying because trad inks, Poshet bishop, pocket bishops and Tradinc's pocket cardinals are coming out basically to a man telling the SS picks not to go through with these consecrations. That doesn't appear to be what Bishop Ray is saying and God bless him for that. What, what, what has he said?

[Frank Walker]

Yeah, like Cardinal Mueller attacked them and Cardinal Burke today and Cardinal Burke was just at this pilgrimage of starch and he attacked them. He always attacks them. But he this guy who was said that regular Mass and the ancient Mass and got a lot of trouble from Francis even though he was very obedient the whole time, he said we shouldn't. There's 160% increase in adult baptisms in France and they're looking for tradition. Like we've said on this show so many times, they want Tradition. There's people out there on the computer, on the Internet, that are. Have platforms and podcasts. We need to encourage initiatives to these people to bring them close to the ancient Mass. They're looking for the ancient Mass, and we need to be able to find ways, remain in dialogue with the sspx. He didn't say whether he agrees with them or not. He said, but whatever happens, we need to remain in dialogue and integrate traditionalists into the structures of the church. That's really important. Not forget them, not pretend that they're not one of us. Include them. Even Francis understood that you need to include them as a part of what you are because it's. It's a Catholic tradition. He said, we need to accept the new tendencies of these young people that are coming into the church. This is the recipe really for the future. And nobody's been saying this. Francis fired him. He's only 73. And he said, I don't agree with being fired, but I'm obedient to the Holy Father, but I don't agree with their reason, the assumed reason that they gave. So he knows how to become combative at the same time without hurting feelings and being disobedient. So, yeah, I, I think that this is the way that you should deal with this. It's a new generation wants to be baptized, and we need to rediscover our roots because it's the way to discover a new Christianity, meaning our roots are the future. That's his message, isn't. I'm not really fired. I'm still really involved. And you can see here that he is.

[Harnwell]

This guy is interested, and it is interesting that he's not using the opportunity here of this, this interview to throw the SSPX under the bus in order to burnish his credentials with Rome. He's saying church, the church should integrate traditionists, which I think is very, you know, good on him. God bless him for that, for that stand, you know, in the final two minutes, less minute and a half of the show, I just want to take this opportunity to. To address both Catholics who will just go to their Ordinary Mass in their local parish on Sundays in the vernacular, the Novus Order, and even evangelicals. Look, sometimes I have gone to Assemblies of God in the past. I've always gone to Mass, but I have sometimes gone, when I was in Belgium, to the Assemblies of God because I enjoyed it and I thought there were great groups of Protestants doing those things. I've been to Protestant church until I converted about 25 or so years ago. I would make this suggestion both to Catholics and to Protestants. Go onto the Internet, get your phone out, find out where your local traditional Latin mass is. And I'm not saying go to it every Sunday, just go to it once and see what you think to it. And then send us a message on Vigeta of what you thought. That's the end of the show. Frank Walker, thanks for sharing your insights on Magnifica humanitas. The the Pope's encyclical will continue to digest this one, I think over the coming weeks. You're available. Your exceptional analysis is there on canon 212 2. And, of course, stumbling block. I check on canon 212 myself every day to find out what's going on in the Catholic Church. Frank Walker, many thanks indeed to you. Thanks also to Spencer and Will in the control room.