WarRoom Battleground EP 835: UK Academic Says US And “All The Major Countries Of Europe” Face Civil War Over Mass Migration

Summary

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Bannon’s War Room Battleground EP 835:

UK Academic Says US and “All The Major Countries Of Europe” Face Civil War Over Mass Migration
Date: August 22, 2025
Host: Ben Harnwell (for Steve Bannon)
Key Guests: Professor David Betts (UK academic, war and conflict studies), Tim Stanley (Daily Telegraph journalist)
Notable Segment: Interview with Greek MP Alexandros Xervius and lawyer Ioannis Zographos

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Episode Overview

This episode delves deeply into the growing threat of civil conflict in the UK and across Europe, attributed to mass migration, declining trust in political institutions, and elite fragmentation. Host Ben Harnwell (standing in for Steve Bannon) interviews Professor David Betts, considered a leading thinker on political fracture in the UK, and Tim Stanley, a prominent UK journalist who has publicly warned about the risk of civil breakdown. The latter half shifts to an explosive interview with Greek MP Alexandros Xervius and his lawyer, discussing the removal of MPs from parliament by what they claim is a politically motivated judicial coup in Greece.

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Main Theme

Are Western societies, especially the UK and Europe, on the brink of civil war due to mass migration and state failure? What warning signs are present, and how are governments confronting (or deflecting from) these deepening divisions?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Civil War in the UK: Definitions and Symptoms

• Tim Stanley: UK at risk of "social strife, anarchy or civil insurgency" rather than organized armies (03:18)

  • Civil war here means low-level, constant disorder, urban riots, loss of confidence in the state, not conventional war.
  • Cites decline in state competence and legitimacy, increased social fragmentation stemming from mass migration, and an "expectation gap" among the youth.

  “What we're talking about is fraying social relationships, decaying trust in the state and a rumbling low level insurgency... which will result either in disorder or, I think, equally as worrying, an authoritarian turn by the government.” — Tim Stanley (04:30)

  • Noted a "tragic outcome" could be mainstream support for openly racist parties—unprecedented in modern British history.

2. Academic Analysis: Standard Warning Signs of Civil Conflict

• Professor David Betts: UK displays "all the standard warning signals of a country vulnerable to civil war" (06:31)

  • Three Structural Factors:

    1. Factionalization:
       People increasingly define themselves by tribe/group, not issues.
       "A form of factionalism... only occurs when people are beginning to feel unsafe." (06:44)

    2. Perceived Loss by Dominant Group:
       Formerly dominant groups feel "trending towards a minority," fueling tension—a predictor of conflict in civil war literature.

    3. Loss of Faith in Political System:
       Growing belief that political mechanisms can't address collective problems; people look for "alternate means," which can mean violence or insurgency.

  • Additional Proximate Factor:
    Youth expectation gap: "poorer economic prospects, lower levels of security, diminishing lifespan and health, fewer opportunities," all building toward a "crunch point" (09:00).
  • Elite Fragmentation:
    Political elites are "capricious, frightened," and defections across spectrums are fueling anti-status quo parties.

  "They're reacting in a highly capricious manner as essentially as frightened people do when they themselves are fearful of the monster that they've created." — Prof. David Betts (10:20)

3. Internal Dynamics Mirror International “Traps”

• Ben Harnwell: Draws parallel to "Thucydides trap," traditionally about conflict between nations, applying it to domestic majority/minority dynamics. (11:18)

• Betts: Agrees it's a useful analogy—dominant groups, feeling threatened and moving toward minority status, react with urgency, paralleling the “Great Replacement” (or “downgrading” in academic literature). (13:00)

  "What you have is a situation where a group fears that it is losing control... they fear they are doing so imminently, which powers a certain sense of urgency to act..." — Prof. David Betts (13:14)

4. Rising Ethnic Tensions, Political Implications

• Tim Stanley: Cites recent report predicting White Britons as a minority within 40 years, leading to the sort of "tribal competition" usually associated with post-colonial states (17:12)

  • Cites rise of ethnic-based voting, especially around the Gaza issue and “migrant hotel” protests.
  • Sees potential for "far-right backlash" as elite appears powerless or unwilling to act.

  "Mass migration has now reached a point where you can't ignore it anymore because it is changing the nature of society and politics." — Tim Stanley (19:12)

5. The Government’s Deflection: Externalizing Threat

• Harnwell: Notes the UK government externally blames threats (e.g., Russia) for domestic strife. (20:23)

• Betts: Points to the classic political technique—using external threats as a unifying distraction (the "short victorious war" theory). Boris Johnson’s Ukraine involvement cited as an example of deflecting attention from domestic turmoil. (22:38)

  "It can be very helpful to call on the nation to unify [against an] external threat... a very time honored political technique." — Prof. David Betts (24:00)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Tim Stanley on State Trust Loop:
  "We're stuck in this loop of growing tension... The state always pushes back... that delegitimizes it further... which then leads to more protesting and more rioting." (03:45)

• Prof. Betts on Fracturing Elites:
  "... the elite is already beginning to... fracture. So you're seeing defections from the elite across the political spectrum which result in the rise of anti status quo parties..." (10:39)

• Betts on “Replacement Theory” in UK Context:
  "... within the Civil wars literature, it's referred to by the term 'downgrading,' which is... an academic way of explaining the same concept..." (13:50)

• Stanley’s Caution:
  "I am perhaps more concerned by the inevitable eventual far right backlash than I am by this process of social change and the disturbances it's bringing." (19:49)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction to Theme & Guests: 00:55–03:18
• First Explanation of ‘Civil War’ Risks (Tim Stanley): 03:18–05:39
• Professor Betts on UK Factionalization and Warning Signals: 06:31–11:18
• “Thucydides Trap” and Replacement Theory Discussion: 11:18–14:57
• Ethnic Tensions and Political Outcomes (Stanley): 17:12–20:23
• Externalizing the Threat (Betts): 22:38–25:34

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Second Half: Greek Parliamentary “Coup” (32:51–51:32)

Context

• Greek MP Alexandros Xervius (Spartans party) and lawyer Ioannis Zographos claim that the Supreme Special Court illegally and unconstitutionally removed three Spartans MPs from parliament, undermining Greek democracy.

Key Points

• Allegations that judges appointed by the government, acting without a jury, removed elected MPs for political reasons (voter fraud based on alleged irregular party leadership).

• The Spartans are anti-Ukraine involvement, generally likened to Viktor Orbán’s party in Hungary, supporting traditional nationhood.

  "Democracy was assassinated... Every notion of justice and respect to the constitutional order was violated." — Alexandros Xervius (32:51)

• Lawyer claims:

  • “No democracy anymore in Greece. There is no parliament. The prosecutor herself made the procedure, conducted the investigation, and introduced the case to the court.” (37:35–39:12)

• European and International Silence:

  • “Until now we had none [support from EU] and I'm very sure that we will also have none in the near future. Because the European Union is the modern Soviet... there is a conspiracy between the liberals and the leftists... to neutralize every nationalistic voice.” — Xervius (40:55)

• Current Parliament Operating Unconstitutionally:

  • Without special elections to replace ousted MPs, the parliament itself is considered “illegal” under Greek law.
  • Lawyer: “Even former members of the ruling party say the constitution was abolished in this situation.” (47:34)

• Personal Danger:

  • Xervius in “physical danger” due to political persecution (49:41).

• International Media Reaction:

  • “Nothing. This is... a conspiracy of silence... You are the first [media outlet to feature story].” (50:45)

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Memorable Moments

• Clarity on Civil War:

  • Both academics and journalists are careful to clarify: talking "civil war" means social decay and continuous unrest, not battlefronts.

• Bold Comparison:

  • Stanley and Betts compare the UK to failing states in the developing world, not as a hyperbole, but rooted in social science indicators.

• Greek Segment:

  • Direct, emotional claims from Greek MPs about democratic breakdown echo the warnings about elite failure and “regime” behavior in Western Europe.

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Social Media & Further Resources

• Prof. David Betts:
  “Search on Twitter for a guy with a pipe by the name David Betts.” (26:36)

• Tim Stanley:
  “@TimothyStanley – Mostly pictures of me with my coat.” (26:56)

• Greek Case:
  “YouTube channel: Global News 21” (51:17)

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Conclusion

This episode is a frank, unfiltered warning from UK academics and journalists about the real and rising risk of civil unrest across Western societies, especially the UK, with mass migration, political polarization, and state failure at the root. The discussion is honest about both the dangers of far-right backlash and the inadequacies of current elites. The latter half’s sudden Greek judicial crisis serves as a European case study in what elite panic and regime politics can lead to: the stripping of parliamentary democracy. The hosts and guests urge attention to these warning signs—before more drastic outcomes occur.

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Transcript

[A]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies because we're going.

[B]

Medieval on these people.

[A]

Reasons I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that.

[C]

I know you try to do everything.

[A]

In the world to stop that, but.

[C]

You'Re not going to stop it.

[A]

It's going to happen.

[B]

And where do people like that go.

[A]

To share the big lie?

[B]

MAGA MEDIA I wish in my soul.

[D]

I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

[A]

Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. War Room here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[B]

Good evening. Ben Harnwell here at the helm. Welcome to Steve Bannon's War Room. We've got a one off special today and if we get a lot of engagement on social media, do let us know. Let me know if you're in contact with me on geta. Let Grace know if you're in contact with her. If we get a lot of engagement, perhaps we'll continue the theme. What we're looking at is something that Steve Bannon referred to earlier on in the week, which was Colonel Kemp, a UK retired colonel, had mentioned that the UK was heading towards civil war. Well, that got my ears pricked up. And we're very honored to have on the show today Professor David Betts. Now, this guy is really, I think, one of the most original thinkers in the uk, an academic, and he's really the guy who first started putting some serious thought into the possibilities of a total fracture in UK society. What I hope to do is explore this theme going forward over the next few weeks and have an opportunity for in depth conversation with some of the names in the news who are thinking about this, because obviously it has ramifications right across the political spectrum. Now, as I say, we're very honored that Professor Betts is going to be coming on the show. First, however, I'd like to bring on Tim Stanley, who's a great journalist at the Daily Telegraph, who wrote about this a couple of months ago. All of the links were put out on our getter channels, so we're referring to those obviously on Rumble as well when I put put out the video. But let's. Tim, you, you mentioned this. You obviously referred to David Betts as well in your piece. There's the headline, Britain is lurching towards civil war and nobody knows how to stop it. Before we hear from the man himself, just Give me, if you would, a quick opener on this theme. What first attracted you to this rather shocking thesis that the UK is not a very stable society right now and could indeed head towards civil war.

[C]

It's based upon a general feeling of tension in British society. When we talk about civil war, it's important to define that we're not talking like the United States, civil war, big army, north versus South. We're talking about the potential for social strife, anarchy or civil insurgency. And one might argue that we've had that in the past. We've had terror campaigns like the IRA and one. Some might argue that we're going through it right now. Last year we had very significant urban riots. This year we've had a series of protests outside what are called migrant hotels. And what it's rooted in is a decline in the competence of the state and in trust in the state, which has been made much worse by the policy of mass migration, which leads to a competition over resources and a growing sense of cultural fragmentation. And because many people perceive that mass migration is something they didn't vote for, that it was a conspiracy against them, they feel locked out of ordinary democratic processes. So we're seeing a rise in petty vandalism, we're seeing a rise in disrespect towards the police, a rise in disengagement from politics and a rise in rioting. And when that happens, the state always pushes back. When the state pushes back, that delegitimizes it further. So you'll know that after last year's riots, a great number of people were locked up for a very, very long time. And that sends the message that the state is picking a side in a culture war. It's not your. And therefore you can't trust the state. And that then leads to more protesting and that then leads to more rioting. So the point is that we are stuck in this loop of growing tension that we are not saying. I don't want to put words into Professor Betz's mouth. He's a very interesting man, a proper academic. He's not crazy. We are not saying that we are lurching towards a north, south, cavalier, roundhead war. What we're talking about is fraying social relationships, decaying trust in the state and a rumbling low level insurgency which will result either in disorder or, I think, equally as worrying, an authoritarian turn by the government. I think for the first time in my life, it is conceivable that the British might vote for a party that is openly racist. And that is a tragic outcome of Mass migration. It is not something I would want.

[B]

Thanks Tim. Thanks for that synthesis. Let's hear from the man himself then. Professor Betts, welcome onto the show. Thank you for coming. You're a professor of war and conflict studies in the modern era and I think some of your thinking is absolutely fascinating. Let's start off with an easy one. An easy one. You've made the suggestion that the UK is starting to resemble the. The term failed state, which is something that is normally applied to overseas foreign countries. Would you just give a quick word on that and say what things you're following from what Tim himself was saying as an analysis on your work in your own words, what would you point to to justify that conclusion?

[D]

My point is that Britain today exhibits all the standard warning signals of a country which is vulnerable to the outbreak of civil war. There are fundamentally three that are important. These are structural and long term. They don't emerge. They haven't simply emerged recently, they've been building for a long time. The first is the factionalization of the society which is increasingly of a type which I call is known in the literature as polar factionalization, where people are not disagreeing on issues per se. They're essentially differing in accordance with what they think is the consensus view of their tribe. This is a form of factionalism which only occurs when people are beginning to feel unsafe. It's a reflection of a perception of insecurity in society that makes people wish to look to their tribe for security. The second factor is a perception on the part of a formerly dominant majority that they are losing their status in society, that they are trending either towards a minority, trending ultimately to a minority status in their own society. And that tends to be a very, that is a very significant predictor of civil conflict and that basically is the situation throughout much of the Western world, particularly in Western Europe and increasingly so in in the uk. The third factor is essentially a loss of faith in the functioning of the normal legitimate system. When people lose faith in the ability to solve collective action problems through normal political means, they then seek alternate means of achieving change. Those alternate means can vary in type, but it is very likely in my view that that will take the shape of some sort of civil conflict in the uk. On top of those factors we need to be there are some more approximate issues. These would include the looming, essentially the long standing expectation gap amongst, particularly amongst youth who have poorer economic prospects, lower levels of security, in fact possibly even diminishing expectations of lifespan and health and so on in society. Less Opportunities to own homes, procreate and so on. This is an expectation gap that derives from structural economic problems in society that have been building for a long time that are likely to come to a crunch point here in the uk, probably in the next six months, given I'm not an economist, but I think that's a fairly reasonable, reasonable view, certainly widely expressed economic viewpoint. And another proximate factor hinted at by Tim Stanley there is the lack of a unified and competent elite in the uk. The government is simply not terribly competent. They don't know what they are doing. They are reacting in a highly capricious manner as essentially as frightened people do when they themselves are fearful of the monster that they've created and they can see arising. And so you have a situation now where the elite is already beginning to, is not competent, but is also beginning to fracture. So you're seeing defections from the elite across the political spectrum which results for instance in the rise of anti status quo parties, a multitude of them now. So these combination of factors I would distress are long term. They haven't come from nowhere, they've been building for a long while, but they're nearly, they're really now coming to the boiling point. And we are seeing, therefore, and we're seeing that they are coming to a boiling point in the headlines, in a range of headlines today, some of which Tim had already hinted at. But we can get into further.

[B]

I'll give way to Tim in just a moment, but I want to respond to one of the many things that you mentioned. Really. We could spend all day picking the chapter headings that you, that you listed because they're certainly serious enough to deserve that. But this idea that a formerly dominant social majority fearing that it's in danger of losing that dominance. There's a term, a concept in geopolitics which Steve Bannon talks about all the time on this show, the Thucydides trap, which is really applied to regional hegemons. And the theory is this, that when you have a rising power and a declining power, there's the friction of that normally creates war as the declining power tries to maintain its dominance. I don't want to put words into your mouth, which is why I'm going to ask you the question. Would it be an inauthentic interpretation of what you were saying to suggest that there is a similar sort of dynamic or there may be a similar sort of dynamic taking place within a nation itself? This isn't to regional hegemons, but perhaps in the geopolitical sense, but perhaps cultural hegemons as a historic predominant force in the UK wanes and is overtaken within the same territory of the UK by another force that might also lead to tension and war. Would that be an authentic way of synthesizing what you were just saying?

[D]

I have no problems with that, with putting it that way. I mean, I don't tend to employ the Thucydides trap in my own work. As you point out, it's usually used in the context of international relations rather than with the politics that are internal to a particular nation. But the phenomenon you describe, I think is, or the idea is perfectly portable into the context of a domestic situation and in fact is. So that's perfectly reasonable. What you have is a situation where a group fears that it is losing control and moreover they. They fear that they are do so doing so imminent, which imminently which powers a certain sense of urgency to act while they have the wherewithal to do so. That ultimately is, I think, a reasonable way of paraphrasing the. The Thucydides trap. And it's also essentially the narrative that surrounds the what popularly is referred to as the Great Replacement or Replacement Theory, or to be honest, often is described as conspiracy as a way of kind of assuming that's about trying to explain it away. But within the Civil wars literature, it's referred to by the term downgrading, which is effectively an academic way of explaining the same concept, the same words applied essentially to the same phenomenon.

[B]

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[C]

Well, to go back to what he was talking about, the fear of replacement, the fear of a loss of power at the heart of this, what we're trying to get to here is a recent report that suggested that within 40 years white Britons would be a minority within the UK. Now, it's important to stress that that demographic change and those figures have been challenged by people. There are some who disagree with that. But when we talk about state failure in the case of Africa, we're very used to and comfortable with talking about tribal competition, competition between ethnic groups of resources. We take it for granted that that goes on in Africa, that it's par for the course. When we talk about it in terms of Britain, we suddenly pretend it doesn't happen, but we're starting to see signs of it taking place, be it people voting along ethnic lines. So we now have a grouping within Parliament of MPs who are elected on the basis of the Gaza issue. And there's no escaping that much of their constituent support is Muslim. So you see that, you see rioting in response to crime, you see recent protests against migrant hotels. And really illegal migration is, if you like, the sharp end of the ethnic multicultural debate, because that's the bit on which we can all agree it shouldn't be happening. The conversation about legal mass migration is more complicated because we definitely need migrants to provide services, etc. And again, we don't want to sound racist, we don't want to be racist, it's unchristian to be racist. But when it comes to illegal migration, we can legitimately say that shouldn't be happening anyway. So a debate opens up there and in that case we have the phenomenon of the state housing large numbers of very often young men in towns that haven't seen populations like that before, where some of those young men are accused of crimes against women. This is a recipe for ethnic tension. It's just obvious. I wish it were not so. As I said, I'm a Christian. I grew up in a country where we liked to say I don't see race. But mass migration has now reached a point whereby you can't ignore it anymore because it is changing the nature of the society and the politics. And as Professor Betts said, one problem is we do not have an elite that is imaginative enough to manage this change and to reassure people or to take the steps perhaps to correct it. And I suspect that that elite will, at some point in the near future be swept away by a new EL who are willing to take much tougher steps to correct it. That's one thing that really worries me. When I wrote my piece saying I suspect there will be a civil war, left wing people who read it accused me of wanting to start one. Right wing people who read it accused me of wanting to surrender. Because I must emphasize I am perhaps more concerned by the inevitable eventual far right backlash than I am by this process of social change and the disturbances it's bringing.

[B]

Tim, it's absolutely clear, reading your article that you're not advocating for fascism. But at the end of your article, you make it clear that that is the. No, you're absolutely clear that you're not doing that. But the pained tone of what you're writing is that unless these problems are dealt with, and you mentioned the Muslim phenomenon and the lack of controlling of immigration as too principal causes of the social tensions right now, unless something is done to tackle that, that is where we are going to end up in the moment. And I, you know, thanks for Denver for pushing that article back up on the screen. I do want, I put the link out. I do want everybody to go and read that article and also to listen to the original podcast with Louise Perry and Professor David Betts, when for an hour and a half, he really dives into these themes. And I have the link for that as well. Going back to Professor Betts, there was something else that you said. Sadly, given the time constraints, we can't go into everything I had wanted to do. But there was something else that you mentioned and I just want to have a quick. In the closing five minutes of this segment, I want to ask you, you mentioned that when the government is talking about social conflict and the possibility of great tension socially, it's casting, if you will, the threat, the fear externally towards Russia. But obviously, as your arguments make clear, as Tim Stanley's analysis of what you're saying makes clear, really the tensions are homegrown and domestic to the uk. Would you mind just, in your own words, say a little bit about your reaction of the. I don't want to use the word because you haven't used the word of Russophobia but the idea of casting this external threat into a place where it really isn't appropriate to do so. Give me a few words if you wouldn't mind on that, please.

[D]

Well, I think what you're alluding to is the possibility that what the UK government is and other European governments are now doing is resorting to time honored political gambit which is presenting the public with an external. When they, when governments perceive there to be a significant domestic threat to their, the security of the regime to when there is a significant domestic turmoil, it can be very helpful to call on the nation to unify. In that case having an external threat, an out group on which to concentrate people's attention can have a unifying effect. This is a very time honored political technique. It's normally referred to as the short victorious war theory which dates back to the early 19th century when Tsarist advisors suggested to the Tsar that a short victorious war with Japan would be very useful in terms of quelling building domestic turmoil within the Russian polity. So one of the explanations, in other words for the Russell Japanese war is essentially a reaction on the part of the Russian authorities to their perception of the looming danger of civil conflict which was a valid and appropriate concern on their part. That's where the term comes from. But it's a time honored technique. Now I'm not in government, I don't sit in cabinet so I can't say that they're doing that. But it's very logical, very logical plausibly that a government that is under significant domestic pressure uses external threat to deflect that is undoubtedly what happened in the early days of the Russell Ukraine war with Boris Johnson's intervention in, in that conflict which occurred at a time of his maximum domestic political trouble. So I'll admit that's a matter of speculation on my part. As I said, I'm not sitting in cabinet but I'd be very surprised if astute political operators in the UK were not aware of this time honoured political technique and using it very adroitly, it must be said.

[B]

Well, let me ask you this, I mean arguably, arguably you could make, you could suggest that nations around the world use this, that the short victorious war device to lock us all down during COVID Given that no doubt there will be a similar infringement on our personal liberties, I would, I would hope that the government would correctly identify external threats to, to social well being in the uk and it would seem to me to be somewhat perverse to. For the first. Not. It's not just the present government, right, It's a success. It's a succession of British governments that they've allowed this threat to social stability to arise and now they're suggesting elsewhere to look elsewhere for the blame. 30 seconds. Professor Betts, where can people go on social media to keep up with your research? And I hope we'll get you back on the show soon.

[D]

Well, I'd be happy to come back. As for social media, people can search me up. I'm easy to find on David Betts. I don't need Internet fame, so, you know, find me. Search on Twitter for a guy with a pipe by the name David Betts.

[B]

Tim Stanley. Where do people go on Twitter to get you?

[C]

You can find me at Timothy Stanley. And it's mostly pictures of me with my code.

[A]

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[B]

Welcome back. Well, a long standing friend of mine, Italian politician Roberto Fiora, someone I've known since he was a member of the European Parliament some 15 years ago, very kindly brought me together with our next two guests. And they have a story for you folks that's absolutely, that, you know, you think you, you think you know how bad the European Union is. This story will, will, will, will shock you. So on June 10th of this year, a member of the sitting member of the Greek parliament, Alexandros Xervius, was removed by court, by judge. And he's on the show today to explain to us exactly what happened. And with him he has his personal lawyer, Ioannis Zographos. Thank you both for coming on. Let's go to Alejandro first. So there you are, sitting member of parliament in Greece, in Athens, where you are right now in Athens. And a body called the special highest court removed you, removed you from parliament permanently. Would you like to explain to us a little bit about what happened to you? And my first question to you will be this. When the courts removed you, was there a jury trial involved in that or was it simply judges sitting by themselves? But first of all, the word to you tell us what happened.

[F]

First of all, I would like to thank you for the invitation in your show. Well, what happened, what happened was that democracy was assassinated two months ago in the place where it was born. And the idea is that the citizen has not. The idea behind the democracy is not only that the citizen has the privilege to participate, but also has the duty to participate in public affairs. So what happened, as you said in June 10, the Supreme Special Court decided that three members of the parliament belonging to the Spartan party would have to be stripped of their seats. In this way, every notion of justice and respect to the constitutional order was violated. The judges were decided by themselves with no really concrete evidence. It was a decision that was forced by the Greek government.

[B]

Okay, so to synthesize three sitting members of parliament, Spartans. The Spartans party were removed by a judicial process from this court. Just to give our viewers a bit, bit of an idea of what the Spartans party is, let me ask you some questions just where you're yours. You're. You're a skeptic, right? You're your skeptic party. You are.

[F]

Against the involvement of the Greek government in the Russian Ukraine war.

[B]

And so you're so you're. Again, you're so. You're a skeptic. You're against the. The involvement of the Greek government in the Ukraine war. And let me ask you this. With regards to Israel, whereabouts are you?

[F]

Well, I believe. We believe that Israel has every right to protect its citizens and protect the state of Israel from the terrorists of Hamas.

[B]

I ask you this question, Alejandro, just so that in just three simple questions a largely American audience can have an idea where you are. Because the press, obviously, the mainstream press obviously calls you far right. But your position there seems to me broadly reflective of the American administration and many other political parties in Europe. Just before I go over to you, Anis, could you tell me which political. For those who don't follow Greek politics quite so closely, which political party in Europe would you most say that the Spartans are similar to?

[F]

Well, I would say the political part of Mr. Orban.

[B]

Of Viktor Orban.

[F]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Okay. So that just gives an idea so far. As I say, largely American audience, we have the situation here where three sitting validly elected members of Parliament were removed unilaterally by a court. I will come back to Alexandros, but a question, Johannes, perhaps you might answer this question first. And I do have legal questions for you here, but a political question. Were there perhaps political considerations behind the removal of Alejandros and his two colleagues, or was this a purely legal affair?

[E]

No, it is a purely political matter. They were accused by the government and the fully corrupt Greek justice for voter fraud. It is the first time this happens in Greece because they supposedly had a leader other than the chairman of their parliamentary group, which was a fake. Of course, this never happened. You have to know that in Greece, because nobody should know. It's. It's not easy to know for everybody that the heads of the judiciary are appointed by the government, unlike what happens to other countries in. In our case, in case of the Spartans, and Of course the three. The three MPs that they were ousted by the parliament. You have to know something which is totally unacceptable. The prosecutor of the Supreme Court herself made the procedure against the Spartans, herself conducted the investigation and herself introduced the case to the court to be judged. That's the whole situation that shows that behind the legal movements that have taken place is the Greek government. That should be very clear to everybody.

[B]

Okay, okay, so let me synthesize this. A politically motivated judicial action removed three democratically elected members of parliament from. I think Greece is a founding member of the. One of the early members, Perhaps in the 80s of the European Union removed three members of parliament validly elected from parliament. And this is politically beneficial to the sitting government right now? Absolutely. That's absolutely astonishing. That's absolutely astonishing. Let me ask Alejandros this question. You see Ursula von der Leyen, the President of the European Commission flying to Ukraine, flying to Washington D.C. flying to London, participating in all these international summits in defense of democracy. What support has the European Union? Oh, we also see you mentioned you're most similar to Viktor Orbach. We also see the EU clamping down on Hungary because of what it claims, blocking grants, blocking disbursement of EU funds because of what it claims is an overly politicized judicial process. I am sure these great exemplars of democracy and the rule of law in Brussels will be rushing to your defense. Right. What support have you had from the European Union due to your undemocratic suppression?

[F]

Well, until now we had none and I'm very sure that we will also have none in the near future. Because the European Union is the modern Soviet is a region, a political region where they oppress their political rivals and their political rivals are those that believe in ideas like a nation, like common beliefs like religion. So there is a conspiracy between the liberals and the leftists of the European Union to neutralize every nationalistic voice.

[B]

I'm going to ask you in a moment, Alejandros, what the consequences of this suppression have meant for your political movement in Greece. And I'm also going to ask you what you what intervention you'd be looking for from the US administration. But first, let's have a quick word from our sponsors. I realize there are many choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service and there are new ones popping up all the time. But here's the truth. There's only one that boldly stands in the gap for every American that believes that freedom is worth fighting for and that's Patriot Mobile. For more than 12 years Patriot Mobile has been on the front lines fighting for our God given rights and freedoms whilst also providing exceptional nationwide cell phone service with access to all three of the main networks. Patriot Mobile's all US based support team is standing by to take care of you. Call 972 Patriot today or go to patriotmobile.com Bannon use promo code Bannon for a free month's service. That's patriotmobile.com Bannon or call 972 Patriot and make that switch today. You never thought it would get this far. Maybe you missed the last IRS deadline and you haven't filed taxes for A while. Let me be clear. The IRS is cracking down harder than ever and this won't go away on its own. That's why you need Tax Network usa. They don't just know the irs. They have a preferred direct line to the irs. They know which agents to deal with and which to avoid. The expert negotiators have one goal. Settle your tax problems quickly and in your favor. Don't wait. This won't fix itself. Call Tax Network USA right now. It's free. Talk to a strategist. And finally, put this behind you. Call 1-800-958-1000. That's 1-800-958-10000 or visit tnusa.com Bannon Alejandro, tell me something. The suppression of three. I think you have 12 Spartan MEPs. Or you had 12. The suppression of three members of parliament. What has that done for your movement? For the Spartan movement? Are you. Has it hit your popularity at all? Are you more popular now or less popular now? And what will the consequences of this be at the next election?

[F]

Well, I will not stand in our personal damages because the problem is far more bigger. What I want to say. What I want to say with this. Now. We're speaking now. And the Greek Constitution has been violated. The parliament, as is written in the Greek constitution in Article 53, paragraph 2, cannot work except the last year of the term with fewer than 300 Member of Parliament. So. So this time, in this time that we are speaking, the Greek parliament is working in an unconstitutional and illegal way. And this is the important about our situation. Yes, we lost our seats. It's important for us. But the most important is that the Greek Constitution has been violated. And the only solution is to go to elections. So the mutual tax regime must go to election. And that is what we are asking for from the American political system is to press the Mitsotakis regime and to send a clear message that we would not tolerate this situation, this unconstitutional situation.

[B]

Okay. Firstly, Johannes, I know you want to come in on this project. Have you sat down yet with Ambassador Guilfoyle?

[E]

No, the ambassador has not come yet in Greece. And that's peculiar. It's the only country without a delegation, an American delegation. So you can think whatever you like on that. But this is the truth. I would like to stress out what just Alexandro said, that according to the Greek Constitution, if an MP loses his seat for whatever reason, elections should be held in this district. If the election was held in these two districts of the two of the three MPs, Mizotakis. Would lose the elections. So according to the Greek constitution, as Alexander said, the current parliament is legal and it has been, as I say, as I refer to as a smooth coup d' etat in Greece. Everyone should know that. You should know also that all constitutional scholars in Greece, even the former of Nea Democratia, which is the ruling party, said that the constitution was abolished in this situation. So what Alexandros, and of course me as a lawyer, is asking, let's say that we are crying out to the audience, to the international audience, is that there is no democracy anymore in Greece. There is no parliament. There is nothing that can work without abiding to the constitution. You should know also. Yeah.

[B]

That we only have. We own. Johannes, we only have one minute left.

[E]

Okay, okay.

[B]

So no, no, please make your point.

[E]

Go on with the legal jargon, but I just, just want to. To stress out that Alexandros has also a physical danger. And I have to say that because I am his lawyer, he's in danger.

[B]

Personal danger. Okay, Alexandros, Alexandros, let me ask you this question. We have about 90 seconds left. You've had no support from the European Union elites. What has the reaction been like in the international media? Everybody should be appalled. Everybody should be appalled that the courts have removed three sitting members of parliament at the behest of the government. And this is in a key principal member of the European Union. Tell me about the 30 seconds. What, what has the international media done? Has it spoken up in outrage for you?

[F]

No, it has done nothing. And this is.

[E]

You are the first.

[F]

What I ask is to break this conspiracy, conspiracy of silence and to make. To internationalize this political persecution.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Johannes, would you be kind of quickly to tell our folks where they can go to learn more about this case? Keep in touch with you?

[E]

Yes, There is a YouTube channel, Global News 21, where they can find lots of information.

[B]

Perfect.

[E]

And I think it would be perfect.

[B]

Going. We'll get those links, we'll get those links out on our social media. I want to thank Vittorio Frankie for his help putting this show together today.

[A]

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