Podcast Summary: War Room Battleground EP 909

Deep Dive With Sam Hammond: Confronting AI and Leviathan

Host: Joe Allen, WarRoom.org
Guest: Sam Hammond, Chief Economist at the Foundation for American Innovation
Air Date: December 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a detailed conversation between host Joe Allen and futurist economist Sam Hammond, focusing on the societal, economic, and political ramifications of artificial intelligence (AI) and accelerating technology. Centered around Hammond’s pamphlet “AI and Leviathan,” the discussion explores the prospects and perils of centralized power, regime change, national security, and the potential dissolution or transformation of current institutions due to AI-driven disruption. Hammond, drawing from both libertarian and right-leaning perspectives, offers a nuanced and provocative vision of what the singularity could mean for the United States and the wider world.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Cultural Collisions and Technological Threats

[00:44 - 05:11]

• Joe Allen recounts recent experiences across varied social groups, from conservative religious families to anarchists and tech accelerationists.
• Commonality Identified: Despite vast ideological differences, all groups express deep concern over tech corporations' expanding influence and the existential threats posed by AI.

2. The Central Thesis: AI and Leviathan

[05:11 - 08:12]

• Hammond’s pamphlet argues that the rise of powerful AI is inseparable from the growth of centralized (“Leviathan”) state power.
• Quote (Sam Hammond, 05:57):

  "We are sort of sitting on a knife edge... AI powers are incredible for healthcare, biomedicine, education, but also for surveillance, censorship, social control."

• Hammond points out the historical interplay between technological progress and the strengthening of administrative or managerial states.

3. The Technological Singularity and State Response

[08:12 - 12:14]

• Allen asks whether Hammond truly believes in a Kurzweilian singularity by 2045, where AIs vastly outstrip human intelligence.
• Hammond explains the extrapolation of computational trends and historical analogies—predicting the world in 2045 will differ from today as radically as 1950 differed from the 1600s.
• Quote (Hammond, 10:19):

  "I can say with confidence that the world of 2045 will be at least as different seeming to us as the world of 1950 was to the world of, say, 1650."

4. Mind as Computation: Philosophical Aspects of AI

[12:14 - 14:38]

• Hammond discusses whether “mind” and computation are fundamentally the same, referencing Alan Turing’s insights about substrate independence.
• The evolution and progress of AI are framed as an inevitability grounded in both technical and philosophical developments.

5. Political Divides and Accelerationism

[14:38 - 16:56]

• Expectation on the right to reject transhumanism and accelerationism, but Hammond embraces accelerationist principles—“everywhere but superintelligence.”
• Quote (Hammond, 15:50):

  "I would say I'm an accelerationist everywhere but, you know, superintelligence. I think it's appropriate if we're going to build this thing, to go in it with a degree of humility and trepidation."

• Connection between techno-futurism, American national interests, and geopolitical competition with China.

6. National Security: Keeping the AI Edge

[16:56 - 20:17]

• Hammond supports strong export controls; the US must maintain an uncatchable lead in core AI technologies to prevent runaway global power imbalances or war.
• He explains China’s advantage in energy infrastructure but asserts that US export controls keep China from leapfrogging the West in chip manufacturing and AI development.

7. The X-Ray Specs Metaphor: Surveillance and Adaptation

[20:17 - 23:37]

• Hammond uses “X-ray specs” as a metaphor for powerful, democratized AI capabilities—tools that challenge old social structures and privacy.
• Three possible responses to such technology:
  1. Adapt social norms (embrace post-privacy),
  2. Engineer physical/tech barriers,
  3. State monopoly over new tech (Leviathan solution).
• Quote (Hammond, 21:59):

  “There's kind of three canonical ways society could respond. We could change our culture...we could adapt...or we could have an X-ray Leviathan, the all-seeing state..."

8. AI as a Driver of Regime Change

[23:37 - 24:55]

• Hammond predicts the diffusion of AI will inevitably disrupt existing institutional “regimes”—not just politically but organizationally and commercially.
• Cites the example of Uber/Lyft overthrowing traditional taxi commissions as a microcosm for broader disruption.

9. Privatization and Decline of State Competence

[32:47 - 35:50]

• The US government is increasingly outsourcing core functions (intelligence, spaceflight, etc.) to the private sector as bureaucracy stagnates.
• Hammond sees this trend accelerating, with AI-enabled corporations (possibly run by autonomous AIs) replacing outdated state apparatuses.
• Quote (Hammond, 34:27):

  "We're going to have, you know, these companies...potentially making millions, billions of dollars autonomously...any human would be a bottleneck."

10. Risks of Automated Authoritarianism

[35:50 - 37:13]

• Warning: Total automation of government could enable unprecedented authoritarian power—if all state functions are AI-driven, checks and balances may vanish.
• Urges building privacy and civil liberties protections into the “tech stack.”

11. Impact on Ordinary People & Potential Human Flourishing

[38:03 - 41:25]

• Blue-collar work may be safe for several years; small businesses may benefit from AI tools.
• Longer term: Possibility of post-scarcity society where localism and community may be revived with “high-tech communitarianism.”
• Short transitional window where skills in trades become highly valuable before robotics catch up.

12. The Future as Rentier State?

[41:25 - 42:34]

• Hammond draws parallels to Gulf states and their “sovereign wealth fund” models—where most citizens' material needs are met while guest workers (eventually robots) perform essential labor.
• Sees potential for radical re-localization and recovery of “more human” modes of life.

13. Timeline to the Singularity

[46:16 - 49:41]

• Immediate future: Large tech players race to develop ever more autonomous AI models.
• AI autonomy (“how long can it function unsupervised?”) is now doubling every seven months—much faster than Moore’s Law.
• Next few years: White-collar professions first to be replaced or radically transformed with AI agents.
• Rising cybercrime and deepfakes may force society into “gated communities” both digital and physical for security.
• Quote (Hammond, 47:47):

  "The best model today...can perform tasks...that take humans roughly two and a half hours...In seven months, that'll be five hours...then 10 hours...then 20 hours. And then suddenly, very quickly, we have systems that are doing things autonomously that would normally take humans...weeks or months.”

14. Endgame: Privatization, Gated Communities, and the God Mode Data Center

[48:58 - 50:41]

• Allen reads the speculative ending of Hammond’s essay: A city built around a fusion-powered AI supercluster, engineers about to switch on the next leap in AI intelligence—“who’s going to stop them?”
• Emphasizes the duality: potential god-like creation vs. total loss of control.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sam Hammond [05:57]:
  “We are sort of sitting on a knife edge. The powers of AI...are incredibly powerful tools for surveillance, for censorship, for social control...at the very least we should be communicating those trade offs to the public.”

• Sam Hammond [15:50]:
  “I would say I'm an accelerationist everywhere but...superintelligence. I think it's appropriate if we're going to build this thing, to go in it with a degree of humility and trepidation.”

• Sam Hammond [21:59]:
  “There's kind of three canonical ways society could respond...change our culture...adapt...or have an X-ray Leviathan, the all-seeing state...but the core point is the fourth option, of nothing happening, is not tenable.”

• Sam Hammond [34:27]:
  "We're going to have these companies...potentially making millions, billions of dollars autonomously...any human would be a bottleneck."

Structure and Timestamps

| Segment (MM:SS) | Theme / Discussion | |-----------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:44 - 05:11 | Host’s travelogue, cultural divides, universal AI concerns | | 05:11 - 08:12 | Hammond’s pamphlet “AI and Leviathan”; AI as package deal with centralization | | 08:12 - 12:14 | Singularity, Kurzweil, technological acceleration | | 12:14 - 14:38 | Mind as computation, substrate independence, AI’s evolution | | 14:38 - 16:56 | Accelerationism, right/left divides, tech policy | | 16:56 - 20:17 | National security, US/China chip war, strategic competition | | 20:17 - 23:37 | X-Ray specs metaphor, privacy loss, adaptation paths | | 23:37 - 24:55 | Institutional regime change, Uber/Lyft as microcosm | | 32:47 - 35:50 | Privatization of government, rise of AI corporations, institutions’ decline | | 35:50 - 37:13 | Automated authoritarianism risk, need for privacy primitives | | 38:03 - 41:25 | AI’s impact on regular workers, high-tech communitarianism | | 41:25 - 42:34 | Future as rentier state, comparison to Gulf monarchies | | 46:16 - 49:41 | Near-term AI development, task length autonomy, white-collar job extinction | | 48:58 - 50:41 | Endgame scenario: god mode data center, privatized “city-states” governed by AI |

Additional Resources

• Hammond’s "AI and Leviathan" pamphlet: Google Sam Hammond AI and Leviathan
• Sam Hammond on X (formerly Twitter): @Hamandcheese
• The Foundation for American Innovation

Closing Remarks

Throughout the episode, Allen and Hammond balance dark prophecies with glimpses of renewal, warning listeners of both centralized authoritarian futures and the dissolving of current institutions into privatized, AI-driven mini-states. The discussion is pitched to an informed, politically-aware audience, urging a proactive—but grounded—approach:

"We can try to resist the technology. But really I think a better path is to try to steer the technology, to master the technology, not let it master us."
—Sam Hammond [37:13]

Listeners are encouraged to grapple with the massive societal transformations on the horizon and to consider what might be reclaimed or reinvented as AI radically alters the structure of daily life.