Ben (5:01)

Sure, sorry, carry on.

Ann Lamonica (5:04)

No, go ahead, go ahead.

Ben (5:09)

I'll take the breathing pause that you give to come in and ask a question that a natural observer might ask. Where were it not so politically loaded already. But isn't the idea of giving states their own opportunity and decision to opt into this something that people on the right of the spectrum would broadly welcome, which is. Which is basically freeing, as it were, states from the federal Department of Education's dictatorship over educational responsibility and authority.

Ann Lamonica (5:45)

Well, actually, that's a great point, and I agree with that. And fortunately, this program is not run through the Department of Education. It's purely a tax credit. Department of Revenue, Internal Revenue Service will be administering the tax credits to taxpayers across the country. So this does not involve the Department of Education at all, does not involve any federal funding, any state funding. It's all purely donor, private donations. So with respect to states rights, well, I've heard a lot about the lack of representation in New England, in particular, the diversity of thought in our congressional leadership in the Senate and the House there's not one member that supported educational choice in New England. And that was a huge block for us to get through last summer. When the bill passed, we realized that we had nobody to talk to in Connecticut. Nobody would take our calls, nobody would meet with us about it at the federal level. And as a result, we decided, hey, let's put together a petition. We'll petition the Ways and Means Committee before it comes out of the committee to let them know we need this in New England. New England is completely underrepresented. And I think it would serve conservatives, social conservatives especially, very well to understand that there are people in New England that would support school choice and other initiatives,

Ben (7:21)

with the exception of Jared Polis. I think in Colorado, this is broadly worked out to be a partisan split, has it not? And in that Republican governors opting in to the program and Democrat voters are opting out on that basis. Can you just say a few words on why this is of interest specifically to parents trying to get their kids into Catholic school, for example?

Ann Lamonica (7:53)

Well, Catholic schools, we, in the Catholic schools, we educate the children's whole body, mind and spirit, not just their minds and bodies. We try to involve faith, obviously, in their daily lives. We don't relegate faith to just Sundays. We relegate in everything we do in all our studies and in our working lives. We try to, you know, live out our faith in freedom and without the restrictions of the state or the imposition of state curriculum.

Ben (8:30)

So specifically in terms of Catholic parents, though, what I mean is this okay, normally, and this is, I'm going to build on over the rest of this hour. There has been a progressive drift in the United states since the 60s in terms of embracing broadly progressive leftist issues outside of the life issue. And therefore, there's a somewhat, I would suggest a tension here between, say, the Catholic Bishops Conference, which has tried to poke around a little bit around the edges in favor of parental rights because it's obviously in the interest of the Catholic Church and keeping its, its formation up for the reasons that you just mentioning amongst the youth. But it's basically forcing the institute, the U.S. the institutional U.S. catholic Church, to take a public policy position in flat in face of where the majority of the Democratic Party is on this. I'd like you to address that if you could, to tie those things together.

Ann Lamonica (9:43)

Well, that is true. Unfortunately, it has become a political issue and that's why school choice is not passed in Connecticut, where primarily, you know, a blue state through and through. We have, we're outnumbered super majority in the state Legislature, we are unable to pass school choice here for the past several years. We have representatives and legislators who one on one at the state level are supportive of our Catholic schools. They want them to thrive. They understand the benefits that we have. But when it comes to voting on a measure through, they'll vote against it or it just won't make it out of committee. You know, a bill might just not be raised and made out of committee. That's, that's the reality that we're living in, in Connecticut, in a blue state. So that is, and, and that is also a problem for us in Connecticut is getting Democrats to support us at the local level. We have plenty of parents who are Democrats and Republicans. We try to focus on the children, not to make this a political issue. And unfortunately, that's where we. It is a political issue, but we're trying to make it not a political issue. We want it to be about the proper education of children at the direction of their parents.

Ben (10:59)

Of course, I get that. But it is a political issue, you know, as pretty much everything that the state does vis a vis parental responsibility, individual responsibility. You have a philosophical difference here of whether the formation of, of the state, the public provision of education is part of what should be bracketed under the public good, sort of the formation of the nation's children together for social cohesion, or you have a different philosophical approach which basically treats education like a commodity available on the free market, and therefore that would push very much more an individualistic, purchaser led approach. Of course, the debate itself, as much as one tries to take it out of the hands of partisan politics, it is inherently a political situation and people will come down on different sides on this. And this is really what my question to you is. I'll ask it now and perhaps we'll pick up just in a moment after I do a quick ad read for one of our sponsors. But I have to ask you this question, Ann Lamonica, and it's this. Do you think that decades of leftward drift for the institutional Catholic Church has somewhat enfeebled its ability here to come down very strictly on a parental rights side in this policy debate?

Ann Lamonica (12:30)

Well, in Connecticut, I would say that has not happened. Our archbishop and our bishops have been fully supportive of parental rights. We have actually made several pleas to the state government, to state legislature about public education, how we need to respect parental rights in public education, include parents in on what's happening with their children in terms of mental health consultations. We need to be aware of what's happening to the kids at our schools. We've fought for that repeatedly at the guidance of our bishops. And I just don't see that happening here in Connecticut. I feel like the bishops have, we do have more or less a social justice Catholics and then we have the other ones that are involved in more the pro life issues. But that's okay. That's the diversity of the Catholic Church. We welcome both sides and there's value and good to both. So we just have to concentrate our efforts where we can and make the changes that we can. And I think that the bishops have been fully supportive of this educational choice in Connecticut especially. Especially.

Ben (13:45)

I'll come back for the wider US Picture in just a couple of moments. First, I have to give a quick shout out to one of the war room's key sponsors, Birch Gold. Folks, think about this. Back in 2006, if you'd have spent $20,000 on buying gold, you'd have bought about 33 ounces at spot price 20 years ago. Well, if you'd have bought those 33 ounces and put them on the market and sold them today, what you bought for $20,000 20 years ago, you would be selling today for, get this, $165,000. That's why Smart Americans are diversifying a portion of their savings into precious metals. And that's why you need to consider buying gold from our friends at Birch Gold Group. For thousands of years, gold has been a store of wealth and and today it's a crucial part of any balanced strategy. Even better, Birchgold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered retirement account in gold. Just text Bannon that's B A N O N to the number 989-898 to receive your free info kit on gold. There's no obligation, just useful information with an A rating with the Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers. Let Birch Gold help you diversify with gold. And now that's peace of mind for you. Once again, text Bannon to 989-898. Bannon to 989-898. And folks, I will be giving you that phone number again in the second half of the show. If you want to put a pen and pencil and paper ready, I'll give you that number. Again. Back with Ann Lamonica who is the assistant director for education at the Connecticut Catholic Conference. And so you're saying that your bishops in Connecticut have been pretty resolute on this issue regarding the the wider national position. However, coming soundings coming up from the Catholic Bishops Conference. Let, let me put it like this. I don't see the same intervention in the media as I see, for example, on the immigration issue where I would think the bishops have spoken far more clearly on that. What do you make of that difference? And do you. Why has the U.S. catholic Bishops Conference, if we're putting the immigration issue down as a model to measure it against? Why isn't the US Catholic Bishops Conference doing a full throated throwdown here on the Democratic governors who are obstacling Catholic parents to, to take scholarships at Catholic schools?

Ann Lamonica (16:45)

That's a great question. I would defer to the USCCB on that, but I can tell you I've worked with the education office at the USCCB during the time that this bill was passed. And I think it's just so, so much has happened and that they are kind of swamped with regulation forming right now. So they're working, they've been working on the regulations, but that's a great question. They've tried to intercede on our behalf, but they leave it up to us at the states. We know our states better than they do. Why at the national just, you know, why doesn't it receive as much press or why don't we hear about it more? I think that's just a matter of the media picking up on the stories. I think immigration is more of a hot button issue than a tax credit, unfortunately. But I do want to add that these tax credits, these scholarships can be used in Catholic schools, but they could also be used for homeschooling, they could be used for tutoring, they could be used for special needs services. And public school students could benefit too. And as Bishop Francagiano had said, this is for all students and it's not just for Catholics, it's for all students. But we have our interest in, at the Connecticut Catholic Conference, obviously with our Catholic population here.

Ben (18:07)

Would you like to see church leadership challenging more frontally the Democratic governors who are blocking this tax credit program in the estate?

Ann Lamonica (18:23)

I think, I don't know how helpful that would be. Actually. We shouldn't, I don't want to, you know, I don't want anybody undermining our bishops coming from outside. I think they have full control of what they can do here. I do think it might be slightly helpful, but I, I question whether, you know, Governor would actually listen. So we don't want to go too heavy.

Ben (18:45)

I suppose just for the, for the, for the sake of clarity. You said you don't, you wouldn't want to see people undermining your Catholic bishops

Ann Lamonica (18:54)

from outside, I shouldn't say undermined. That was a poor choice of words. I should say, you know, I think they can handle it. They have the reserves to handle it on their own, and I think they, they should be allowed the freedom to do so.

Ben (19:09)

So you're not suggesting, to be clear about this, you're not agitating. The Connecticut Catholic Conference isn't agitating here. For the US Catholic Bishops Conference as an entity to be intervening more vocally, more strongly in individual states where Democrat governors are blocking the program,

Ann Lamonica (19:36)

I don't see what benefit that would do. Actually, the USCCB has done a great job helping us in the first, you know, get this bill passed at the federal level. We're at the state level now, and I think that whatever they say will just, you know, be combined with whatever we're saying. So it's, it's just going to get lost in the weeds. I don't think it's going to be all that helpful.

Ben (20:02)

Okay, let me ask you this then. If we're and is this is firmly part of Catholic social teaching, right, that the parent responsibility for the educational formation of children takes precedent over the state's role here. If we're assuming that that is true, and I think you and I will both take that as absolutely to be true, in the natural order of things, the ability for parents to have the formation that they want for their children is. It's a moral issue as well as a religious issue. Right. Rather than just being, say, a policy issue.

Ann Lamonica (20:47)

Correct. A moral and just government would encourage a parent to make the best choice for their child, whether it be a Catholic school, evangelical school, homeschool. They would encourage that, that government would do that.

Ben (21:02)

And a governor that blocks the program in their state is effectively saying that they know better for the education formation of the children than the parents, Correct?

Ann Lamonica (21:15)

That's right.

Ben (21:16)

So if it's a more so if we're taking it as, as a moral and rel. Religious issue and one here that is at the heart of Catholic social teaching, even though it's very rarely, I think, given the seriousness that it should have. But it was, you know, this, you can, you can, I think, is it, was it gravisimus Gravisimum, the document from the Second Vatican Council on the formation of gravissimum. Was it educationis and you have Familiaris Consortium as well, from John Paul ii. These, these are serious sort of. There is a strong Catholic provenance here on these issues. I want to come back to the issue. Why is why Is the why the Catholic Bishops Conference can't get into this a little bit more strongly given it's not just a policy issue. If it were simply a political policy issue, I could accept the arguments on prudential grounds that it might be counterproductive. But given that this is a, as we established a moral issue here, I would have thought there's a wide open opportunity for the Catholic Bishops Conference to come in and make a very clear case in widening this, this program, the tax credit program, allowing that in the states where Democratic governors have blocked it. And even if that does mean that the Catholic Bishops Conference is taking a more overtly political position, I think there's enough justification for it to do so.

Ann Lamonica (22:48)

Yeah, that would be great. I mean, I think it would be helpful, I guess. I do think that the USCCB helps direct the state level, the Connecticut Catholic Conference. All the states are working together. All the executive directors of the state level conferences are working together on this issue. We are at the front lines in the states to make that. Coming from outside of Connecticut, we're not going to have that. That influence is not going to be as persuasive as local influence here, at least in Connecticut. Maybe it works differently in other states, but we're such a small state that we really, our legislators and our governor is going to listen to the people of Connecticut and they're not going to really pay attention to the people outside. I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. It's that it's more of a local issue here. I would ask Congress if, you know, the USCCB could help us here. I would ask Congress the next reconciliation, reconciliation bill that they consider is to remove this opt in option for governors. Remove it from the law. It's unnecessary. It's unnecessary to create this division among the states and treating children differently in one state. If you live in a red state versus a blue state, that, that would be the easiest problem.

Ben (24:10)

I think it was a requirement, wasn't it, to getting the bill passed on that point. It was a compromise in order to get it passed. And of course on, on, on a bipartisan issue. It is a, it is a strange inversion, I think, to have basically the, the Republicans, the strange inversion for the, for Catholics, I should say to, to be in a situation where they're sort of really pushing for a sort of state rights position. Whereas then as I, as I was saying before early on in the show, after many decades, apart from the pro life issue, the, the whole push of, of Catholic representation in politics has been towards state provision, which is I, you know, and that's why I think my first question was, was trying to tease out of you whether I think because it's my, my belief looking at this that we're because of the leftward drift of the institutional Catholic church since the 60s, since the mid-60s. We're now on this issue of Catholic education, Catholic formation. We're now in the issue of seeing somewhat chickens coming home to roost because in other situations the Catholic Church as an institution with all the funding that it has and the spot in the public eye, it would be able to bring a great deal of issue of attention to this matter. And it's not really doing so. And that's my perplexity and I would suspect. Right. Knowing something about the people who tend to populate bishops conferences is that they tend to have a left wing bias. And I'm sort of thinking whether that might be an attention here in the bishops conference on this issue. Just give me 30 seconds as your reaction to that and then we're going to the break.

Ann Lamonica (26:14)

Well, back to the states rights. I just say let's look back at our representation in New England. It's been an issue on this show. Vice President J.D. vance has brought it up. And I think if you realize why we have the representation in Congress that we have, it might be a result of other factors. And I'd like to see the Republicans in the House support school choice for everyone in the and in the Senate to see that there are conservatives across the whole country, not just the red states. They have to look beyond because children in our states might move to their red state eventually.

Ben (26:49)

Perfect point to close. And we're back in two minutes. Don't go away, folks. Back with Ann Lamonica to discuss the issue of the federal tax credit here. Back in two minutes.

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Ann Lamonica (30:48)

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Ann Lamonica (30:51)

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Ann Lamonica (31:16)

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Ben (31:19)

Welcome back. Well, as you know, folks like those of you who follow the War Room regularly, gold is a hedge. It is a safe harbor in times of crisis. So if you want to speak to Philip Patrick and his team at Birchgold, just text Bannon B A N O N to 989-898 Bannon to 989-898 and I'll give you that number once again very quickly at the end of the show, back to Ann lamonica, the assistant director for education at the Connecticut Catholic Conference. Anne, thanks for staying with us as we dig into this issues. Now, it's often commented in the media that Pope Leo is the first American pope. So my question on this is seeing is that the pope is so keen to intervene in U. S. Domestic political issues. On the immigration issue, specifically dropping all the hints at his diplomatic disposal to indicate he doesn't quite think the Trump administration has understood the subtleties and complexities of Catholic social teaching on the issue. What can we expect? Now, I know you don't speak for the pope or anything, but do you think Catholics might reasonably expect the pope to intervene on this issue in favor of not, as you say, not only Catholic parents, but evangelical parents as well, Jewish parents as well, to help guarantee for them the ability to pick the education that parents want for their children?

Ann Lamonica (33:07)

I do expect that, in fact, you know, Pope Francis had done the same. It took a little while and, you know, a few years, but he was outright and outspoken about parental rights. And I suspect that Poplio will do the same probably before the end of the year, I would guess before this tax credit kicks in.

Ben (33:31)

And what? Well, thank you for speaking so, so positively on that one. What kind of effect do you think that will have on the domestic political situation in the United States right now, given the various positions that people are taking generally with regards to partisan split,

Ann Lamonica (33:55)

I would expect that would have a bigger effect. Actually, I think that would be the best effect. Not that the USCCB Is just the Conference of Bishops. They're not the local bishops in a state, in the archdiocese or diocese. So I think if you hear it from the top, people are going to listen. And Pope Leo, I'm sure, can draw an audience and people will report on it and they'll put pressure on legislators and we'll see what happens.

Ben (34:27)

I absolutely agree with you. I think it would be massive were he to do so. Because no matter how it's framed or how it's positioned or how much Vatican spokesman or even the US Catholic Bishops Conference say that he's not making a partisan intervention here, it's absolutely clear given the split between Democrat governors and Republican governors in the country that this is, that this will de facto be a position far closer to one political side than another. And for the reasons that we mentioned in the first half of the show, very much going against the general trend and current of, of the Catholic Church's activism in the political sphere. Of course, one criticism that will be made on this is that the reason why the Pope will be intervening on this and taking that particular position which has a particular affinity with the GOP is because the Catholic, and this is the point that the Catholic Church is desperate. Really the institutional Catholic Church is desperate. That the point the Church is desperate not to generate because the Catholic Church is, is defending it has a direct interest in this issue.

Ann Lamonica (35:39)

Are you suggesting that we're, that the Catholic schools would be profiting from the tax credit? I've heard this, I've heard this before and I know it's not you. I know.

Ben (35:50)

Actually, actually that's, that's not my suggestion though. I though it is absolutely. Though it is absolutely my, my position that the Catholic, that the, that the Catholic Bishops Conference has a leftward progressive stance in the political sphere because of the huge subsidies and grants it takes from the federal government to, to deliver its various social services. But that's not my argument on this issue. I. On this issue. My issue is, is that the Catholic Church will take what is a more individualistic position rather than state led position on this issue because it has an interest in seeing as many Catholics formed as possible. And it, were it not to be, were it not to directly an issue affecting the formation of Catholics and Catholic family and Catholic youth. If you took the word Catholic out of that, the Catholic Church would almost certainly be landing up behind the Democratic governors on this issue. That was my point.

Ann Lamonica (36:53)

No. Yeah. Well, I know detractors will say that the Church will make that they think the schools will somehow profit from this. They're not going to profit. Our teachers are paid far less. We have very small budgets than the public schools. But in terms of if it weren't Catholics involved, that the church would not be involved. I tend to disagree with that because the church has a long history of academic and intellectual freedom and supporting intellectual freedom and diversity of thought. 2000 years worth. They inherited Roman and ancient Greek classical education and preserved it and refined it and use it as tool for good. So I tend to disagree with that. I think the church would always support educational freedom, or it should if it doesn't. But I feel like that's the history of the Church and will continue to do so.

Ben (37:49)

Okay, then let me push back on that slightly. In that case, why does the Catholic Church have a very different public policy position on the provision of health care from the provision of education?

Ann Lamonica (38:01)

In that sense, I cannot speak to that. I'm sorry.

Ben (38:07)

Okay. But you know. But you understand why I'm asking the question, right?

Ann Lamonica (38:11)

I do. I do understand. But there's a difference. I, I understand that.

Ben (38:17)

All right, before we do the move, move to the, to the next sponsorship question, let me just ask you whether you think that the church has underestimated somewhat over recent decades the degree to which aggressive secular public systems have wanted to compete against religious education.

Ann Lamonica (38:42)

Oh, no. Well, in fact, they're fully. They've been fully aware of it as it had happened in 19, early 1990s in Connecticut. We used to be. The Catholic schools used to be part of an open choice network where students could attend if we had open seats and they could tend for free if they came from cities in need. And in the early 90s, we were removed from that program and magnet schools were created. And those magnet schools had a detrimental effect on enrollment in the Catholic schools. And along with the imposition of a new state income tax, those combined reduce the income of families to be able to send two, three, four children to school to a Catholic school. And so they chose the magnet schools, perhaps instead. So they've seen this effect for several decades now. And we're actually, our numbers are coming back after Covid. I think people have a renewed interest in Catholic education and what we have to offer students.

Ben (39:50)

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Ann Lamonica (43:13)

Well, I can speak to Connecticut situation other than the breakdown of the family over those same years, I think that has a direct effect on attendance in Catholic formation. But that aside, in terms of schools, we did go through a period of contraction where we closed several schools and combined them into one in different towns. But we are currently in the Archdiocese of Hartford. We're opening I believe two, three new schools next year. Two of Them are classical academies. That is something that I know there's growing interest in and there has been, that's been a growing interest for the past, I'd say 10 years. And I'm glad to see that happening. There's me one in New Britain and I believe maybe one in New Haven, Connecticut. And also we have the Archbishop Coyne. One of his first goals in the firm, one of the first things he did was declare that he was going to reopen a Catholic school in Hartford, the capital city. And they are on their way to opening that up. Either next year, at the end of this year or next year there'll be a new Catholic school in Hartford to serve Hartford residents who wish to attend on an income, you know, scholarship basis. The.

Ben (44:34)

In the beginning of the show we mentioned how the issue of parental choices are often been framed as a conservative issue, a conservative policy cause. And we also mentioned earlier on in the show, however, that the, the right of parents to form their own children, it's come straight out of Catholic social teaching. Do you think that the church has failed somewhat to lead a debate where its own principles should have dominated? And if you don't want to answer the question like that, let me reframe it. Would you rate the ability, would you rate how well the church has dominated the debate on parental choice over recent years?

Ann Lamonica (45:24)

For me, well, let's say, like I said, I'm not focused on Connecticut because I was, you know, I attended parochial schools here. I graduated from Catholic high school and I went away to Catholic college and came back to Connecticut. I would say that it's through no fault of their own that there's fewer people interested. I feel like our education system is driven by property values. There's a whole other issue. People don't want to spend the extra money on Catholic education that turns into children without daily reminders of their Catholic faith throughout the day. And that has a long term consequence. But I would rate it fairly highly. I don't see that. I haven't heard a time. I know the three archbishops, the last three archbishops have always concentrated and promoted Catholic education in Connecticut. And I just, I don't think it's through a fault of their own that people have not followed through and listened.

Ben (46:34)

I think regular followers of our Wednesday show where we break all this kind of the positioning of the Catholic Bishops Conference and the policy positions it takes. I think regular followers of our Wednesday show will probably have an idea of what my private response to, to that answer might be. But I, but I won't push back too heavily. I will, however, because ask I close with one final question which really sort of synthesizes everything that we've discussed discussed over the past hour. And that is whether you think because obviously this is, I think, the heart of this, how much you believe the church has allowed secular political coalitions to define the education debate instead of asserting its own moral vision on parental choice,

Ann Lamonica (47:33)

how the Catholic bishops have responded to that or have not prevented that. No, I mean that. Go ahead.

Ben (47:40)

That's right. Yeah.

Ann Lamonica (47:42)

I think they've responded. They can only do so much. The teachers unions in Connecticut have and throughout New England have a lot of control over our legislative leaders, and that's just a fact. And. I guess I think they've done their part as a matter of people going to church, the parents of the students to act and listen to their bishops and perhaps even vote on certain issues a certain way if they could, or choose better leaders.

Ben (48:24)

Okay. That's pretty much all we have time for on the Friday show today. I have to respond, however, we're just like 60 seconds of analysis based on what what you've been saying. First, let I wonder. Thank you, Anna Monica, for coming on the War Room somewhat because, you know, we do take a very, very strong position against the U.S. catholic Bishops Conference, against the Vatican at times, against the Pope at times. You have somewhat come into the lion's den today, and I'm very grateful for that, for helping us and our audience take a different perspective. Though I think there's a lot obviously, on the issue itself that they're going to agree with you on, and that is the insistence on that parents have their have the first duty over the formation of their children. When I say somewhat that you've come into the lines, then I wouldn't be as personally as sympathetic towards the institutional American Church for what has been a real collapse, I think in terms of the Catholic provision of Catholic education since the Second Vatican Council has fallen down by about two thirds. If you look to those figures that I gave earlier. And I and like you, I would very much put that responsibility at the heart of the institutional Catholic Church, the Catholic Bishops Conference and individual Catholics. I think it's been if that kind of decline had taken place in a listed company, shareholders would have thrown out the management and voted in new management a long, long time ago. But that's the Catholic Church that we have, and it's not exactly doesn't respond to market forces, doesn't respond to democratic impulse. And Lamonica, very, very grateful for you to come on the show and help chew over this with us. Where do people go to learn more about this issue? Perhaps to support the Connecticut Catholic Conference and the great work that you are doing there?

Ann Lamonica (50:33)

Please go to ct4scholarship.org or CT Catholic Pack on Twitter and Facebook.

Ben (50:42)

Great. And we've got those up just once again on on Twitter. What was that? Where do people go on X to to follow you?

Ann Lamonica (50:48)

CT Catholic Pack cac that's it right there.

Ben (50:53)

That's absolutely perfect. And and quickly before the show goes, I'd give another shout out to Birchgold. If you put your pen and paper aside earlier, it's you've got a text Bannon B a double N o N to 989-898. That's Bannon to 989-898, folks. That's the end of the show. That's it for Friday. Steve will be back in the chair at 10am tomorrow. I'll be back with our weekly roundup of all developments in Christianity with our regular Wednesday evening gang next next next week at I think at the usual time. In the meantime, stay tuned and have a blessed week. My thanks to Will at Real America's Voice in Denver and the guy who put this show together, Vittorio Santi Franco. Take care, folks. God bless for now.

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