Steve Bannon (7:07)

I mentioned earlier in my introduction that Donald Tusk had served about 10 years ago as President of the European Council. Was he trying to leverage his EU credentials? Do you think as Prime Minister here to force Poland into accepting this loan ostensibly to be used on defense spending? That's my first question. And the second question I'll ask you on this. Given Poland's sensibilities with regards to Russia right now, Poland has spoken very, very forcefully on the to support NATO and the NATO infrastructure. With regards to Russia. Does the fact that President Novotsky vetoed this legislation indicate that? Is it a sovereignty thing? Or is he also suggesting that he doesn't actually think Russia is as grave a threat to Poland's security as the government is trying to suggest in order to justify this loan?

Jerzy Kvarzniewski (8:17)

When it comes to Donald Tusk and his European affiliation, it is very often said that Donald Tusk is the most important German politician in Poland. And of course it was in the best interest of Germany to have this loan attributed to Poland and Poland and Polish government to accept the loan of the safe regulation Rheinzmetall and other German companies already founded. Their subsidiary is in Poland waiting for the loan to be spent in virtually Polish companies, but in fact companies that were owned by German by German counterparts. Even the Bundesministerium, the German Federal Ministry for Defense openly said that it is in the best interest of Germany for Poland to accept the SAFE funding. And it was the major point of criticism against the Polish government from President no and the patriots camp that in fact he is taking a loan for 45 years for three generations. And it is the loan taken in the interest of our Western neighbor, not in the interest of the Polish defense system and Polish strategic alliance and not in the interest of development of NATO infrastructure and our own production capacity when it comes to defense. In answer to your second question, of course Russia is a strategic opponent of Poland for centuries. And of course we do calculate the Russian threat into every defense strategy of Poland. And of course under the NATO alliance it is not the most important threat today under NATO and as a loyal ally of NATO pact we are secure. And of course we need to prove our importance in the pact. And that's why Poland is spending 5% of GDP for armament. And it is why Poland is attributing those funds and is also very strategically picking its allies and investors from countries that are strategic to development of Polish capacity of production and defense industry. And that all was undermined by the SAFE regulation which aims to support development of mostly French and German military industry with the cost of Polish and other countries budgets. And of course part of the safe regulated loan is also attributed to Ukraine without consent of the nations of Europe. Poland has already given up part of its tanks, part of its infrastructure, of its army to the Ukrainian ally, to the Ukrainian neighbor and most of its of people in Poland do not believe that it is the best solution now to accept loans from European Union and to give this money in in an important part to to Mr. Leinsky and

Steve Bannon (11:55)

of course the the fundamental control of your strategic defense decisions as well. My final question to you, Jerzy Kvarzniewski on this point before we move on a lot of the war in Posse is particularly interested at the dynamic between the two patriotic blocs, the nationalist blocs in the European Parliament, the European Conservatives and Reformists, the ECR group of which Georgia Maloney was the president until I think she might still be or at least until recently. And then of course you have the slightly larger group, the Patriots for Europe which is which is Viktor Orban's grouping. Both are nationalist groups, though there's a differing. I think the big difference is on the NATO question and the European defense issue, given that President Navrotsky as part of the Law and Justice Party is within the conserve the European Conservatives and Reformists. Could you just give me 60 seconds and indicate to me whether the government, not the government, the president has been lobbied by his ECR group colleagues or affiliated colleagues in other national governments regarding his vetoing of the this safe loan legislation.

Jerzy Kvarzniewski (13:30)

As far as we know it was mostly Christian Democrats. So the EPP that was lobbying in Poland, nevertheless it was ineffective because EPP is an ally of Donald Tusk even though he is the most liberal woke prime minister Poland has ever had. He's member of the Christian Democrat Party in the European Parliament. At the same time, both conservative parties, both patriotic sovereign parties in European conservative reform and Patriots for Europe were very much supportive to the decision of President no. Especially here in Poland as our conservative political scene is divided between those two parties as well. And both of them supported very strongly decision to veto the regulation and the implementation act of the Polish Parliament. And we need to underline that the government of Donald Tusk, which is not following the Polish Constitution and does not recognize even the authority of the Polish Constitutional Tribunal, decided to enter the loan and to accept the loan even though it is contrary to the veto of President Novrotsky. So of course this lobby of European allies of Donald Tusk is effective. It is even more effective than the Constitution itself, even more effective than the constitutional act of vetoing the act of the Parliament. The government already issued a decision that it will accept the loan even without statutory support, even without consent of the President. So against the Constitution.

Steve Bannon (15:11)

Jerzy Kvarniewski, please stand by. I'll be back to you in two minutes. Specifically about this incredible report that you've just published and the conference that you organized based on that. But first folks, you might have noticed a couple of days ago, US national debt has now passed $39 trillion. That was up from 38 trillion. The benchmark passed, I think four or five months ago. So think about this. In 2006, $20,000 equaled around 33 ounces of gold at spot price. If you'd have bought those 33 ounces of gold 20 years ago for $20,000 and sold them today, at today's prices, you would sell them for about $165,000. That's why SM are diversifying a portion of their savings into precious metals. That's why you need to consider buying gold from our friends at Birch Gold Group. For thousands of years gold has been a store of wealth and today it's a crucial part of any balanced strategy. Even better, Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered retirement account in gold. Just text Bannon to the number 989-898 to receive your free info kit on gold. No obligation, just useful information with an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers. Let Birch Gold help you diversify with gold and that will give you peace of mind. So text Bannon to 989-898 again. Bannon SBA. And those details I will give you at the end of the show. So Jerji, you just published this paper taking taking back control from Brussels, the renationalization of the EU migration and its asylum policies. And you had an incredible conference organized on this just last week. Tell us a bit about this. This, this I think is a programmatic position paper. Tell us about that. And specifically I want to draw the war rooms attention to something that you put down on the back cover that only 25% of rejected migrants ever leave the European Union, which is a horrific figure. I never realized it was as low as 25%. Tell us a bit about not only about your position paper here but also about the conference last week.

Jerzy Kvarzniewski (18:03)

Yes, in fact we have published the report together with Matthias Corbinus Collegium from Hungary. And this is the second report that we jointly drafted. The first one last year, the Great Reset Restoring Member States sovereignty in the European Union was also a success. It was commented worldwide and and is part of political program of sovereign forces in European Parliament now it was even again commented by Ann Applebaum after our presentation in the Heritage foundation in dc. So the second report focuses on migration pact that is being implemented by the European Commission in Europe. And it aims to implement the so called Solidarity mechanism in migration. Meaning that countries, countries that accept without any limits, illegals from Africa and Middle east, like Spain today or Germany before, will be entitled to transfer those unwanted illegals not back home, but to Poland, Hungary or Finland. That's the brilliant idea of the bureaucrats of Brussels. The migration pact under the beautiful Solidarity motto will be implemented this year and next year, 2027, January 1, trains packed with illegals will be sent to our countries. And the pact itself is part of the larger crisis of European Union since 2012, 14 since the beginning of the migration crisis and German policy of Harzliche Wilkommen, German policy of welcoming everyone without without limits who are migrating to Europe. Either they are through asylum seekers or just economic migrants or just criminals looking for better opportunities in our countries. And with this document we file a motion to all European governments to take back control from Brussels. Under the European treaties, there is a general rule of subsidiarity, meaning that that if national governments are good enough in providing national policies and effective policies in a single issue, then Brussels has nothing to say and the national governments should be leading this issue. In our best interest is to take back control over asylum and migration policies. We also show one good example of Denmark. Denmark has negotiated when it was accessing European Union waiver of of common policy on migration and asalium. And Denmark is doing much better than other countries of Europe when it comes to migration and asalium. As it is of course not obligated to follow the Brussels lead. We propose some concrete measures that are in line with the European treaties, that are in line with the international public law. And of course we also address the problem of judicial activism. We have two huge international courts in Europe. The European Court in Luxembourg, the EU Court and the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. And both those courts work in cooperation in order to make it impossible to implement effective control over migration azalean policies in our nation states. We are not entitled to relocate migrants back to their home countries. It is illegal. According to the decisions of the Strasbourg court. We are not entitled to build walls on our borders. So the walls built on the border of Poland, the walls that were fences built by Hungarian government or Finnish governments, are illegal from this point of view. And of course with European Union taking more and more control over our sovereign policies, we need to strike back and it is this agenda and this conference was about the report and conferences like that was already held in Budapest and Brussels. The next will be held in Paris in order to make it more broadly recognized proposal for all the sovereign forces in Europe.

Steve Bannon (22:57)

You can see the conference that's going to be up on the screen in a couple of moments. Moments and fantastic conference. Out of that conference it emerged a figure again talking about bremen in Germany. 73 of crime suspects in Bremen are non German. Now you, you say that you want some kind of coalition

Jerzy Kvarzniewski (23:22)

speech to say so in Germany.

Steve Bannon (23:25)

Yeah, well, you probably couldn't say, you probably wouldn't, literally wouldn't be able to say that in Germany. But in order to, as it were, take back these powers, repatriate these powers to the nation state from the European Union, a broad alliance is going to be necessary. Now I realize that Ordo Juris is a bipartisan think tank, though you're obviously quite closely Affiliated with the PIs with Law and justice, as is Matthias Corvinus Collegium, quite closely associated with Viktor Orban political movement, even though that of course is a non political ngo. In talking about the sort of alliance that's going to be necessary in order to convince the European Commission to take these responsibilities back to the nation state level, are we going to see more of these alliances? Coming back to the point I was mentioning earlier, this is very much of a. What you've done here, here, very skillfully done, is you brought together on this issue the two, as I was saying before, the two nationalist wings in effectively via their political groupings, via their affiliated think tanks in the European Parliament you have the European conservatives and reformists and you have the Patriots for Europe, Meloni's faction and Orban's faction really via their affiliated associated principal think tanks coming together on this issue, that is just the kind of alliance and unity that sort of our movements are looking for right across the European Union. And they're going to be necessary in order to take the Commission on and win. Would you agree with that?

Jerzy Kvarzniewski (25:14)

Absolutely. That's the way we are also organizing our conferences on this report and on the previous report on the great receptor of European Union. In all capitals of European Union we are trying to get on board all those members from the ECR and from the Patriots for Europe as well, especially the think tanks that form the back office of those political movements, but also the politicians themselves. In Warsaw we had members from the Polish Parliament and the previous members of the European Parliament from both forces and also advisors of President Novrotsky who were speaking at the conference on Migration as Alium

Steve Bannon (25:58)

Jerzy Krasniew. That is sadly all we have time for on the War Room with you this evening. I want to repeat the fact I've had a had when I was in Brussels a great deal of respect for order Yoris, great pleasure for me particularly therefore to welcome you as co founder onto the show. Before you bounce, where can people go on social media to to keep up with your ancestors output and perhaps find out how they can get involved and support what you're doing.

Jerzy Kvarzniewski (26:24)

You may find or do you. That's Ordo Juris International and also ordoyuris pl. There is also an English version of the web page with all the reports and documents of our think tank. It was an honor to be with you in the War Room. Thank you

Steve Bannon (26:47)

once again. Many thanks indeed. And folks do go onto the website and do track down this report. Taking back control from Brussels. Very worth your time to read. Stay tuned. We'll be back in two minutes after this short break.

Steve Bannon (27:00)

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Aryan Agashahi (31:16)

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Steve Bannon (31:17)

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Aryan Agashahi (31:36)

That's right. You can follow all of your friends

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Steve Bannon (31:47)

Welcome back, folks. Well, my next guest, Aaron Agasha, he's been on the show before and very delighted, grateful for him to come back to talk to us about this interview that he just had published in the Hungarian Conservative with Hans Georg Marson. Now, Hans Georg Martin is an interesting figure because he did serve as president of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution in Germany. And because of Dr. Marson's publicly professed political expressions, he ended up being monitored via the very agency that he once led. As I say, an absolutely incredible interview that Erin Agashahi has conducted with Dr. Marson. I gather, Erin, welcome back onto the show. Thank you. I gather you've known Dr. Marson in a personal capacity as well for a number of years. So I'm sure that relationship of trust helped you there navigate some of these, these more sensitive issues with him. In one thing that came out of this interview, and I'd like to ask you about it now, is something that I mentioned myself in in a speech in Sydney a couple of weeks ago. And that's this idea, and I'm very happy to see you mention this, that it's center right political groupings that really represents the threat, threat to the people right now to the ordinary working families. It's not the left wing political parties, it's the center right political parties because they're fundamentally presenting themselves to the people and to the electorate as the defenders of values which they have no intention of defending whatsoever. You mentioned that pretty much explicitly in your interview. Tell me more about how you arrived at that conclusion.

Aryan Agashahi (33:50)

Yes, thank you so much for having me. I was myself for many years member of a center right party, the Christian Democrats in Germany. And I came to this conclusion based on a long and to be honest, very struggling past because I decided to become a member of the CDU because I considered myself to be a conservative. And I stand for conservative values and principles. And over many years of trying not only myself but many other people, we could not actually form a majority to succeed Angela Merkel's term. So we had the hope and the expectation that the current chairman and chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, would be the conservative hope after so many years of centrist, center left kind of policy. But this never happened. And after realizing this, I exited the party. So let me clarify why it is a threat,

Steve Bannon (35:03)

if I wouldn't mind. Let me just clarify this. So you basically stuck with the cdu, right throughout Merkel. Right? Right throughout her. The end of her, her chancellorship. You stayed in, in the CDU all the way through when Frederick Mertz was, was sort of leading the opposition as cdu. And it was only after he became chancellor. Is that, is that what you're. If I got this right, that you realized the base, the guy's basically politically fraudulent. And that's when you shifted your political affiliation to the AFD day. Have I understood that correctly?

Aryan Agashahi (35:43)

Yeah, basically that's right. And the reason is because when you entered the CDU during the period of Angela Merkel, you had the hope and also, you know, the expectations that actually the majority of the members, the, you know, backbone of the parties are actual conservatives. And one day we will be able to of have a real conservative successor. And all this hope was kind of projected into Friedrich Merz. Friedrich Merz was the conservative candidate. You can find many interviews actually in the mainstream media warning about Friedrich Meertz, portraying him as dangerously to write. And it turns out that he is not only not a real conservative, but exactly a continuation of Angela Merke. And this is the moment where I think the last possible moment where a conservative can come to the conclusion that if he wants to stand for the principles, the CDU is not the right place for that, at least in Germany and at least right now.

Steve Bannon (36:56)

You know, we had exactly the same situation here in Italy a few years ago. Exactly the same situation. You had Giorgia Meloni, who was being criticized as being basically neo fascist and all this, the hard line push on that. And of course the moment, you know, and there were of course some warnings saying actually this is, this is. No, she's not. This is going to be fraudulent. She's going to pivot to the center. And as you said that Friedrich Metz was a continuation of the Olaf Scholz chancellorship from before him. Exactly the same way Giorgio Maloney hit in Italy is the continuation of the Draghi government. It's fascinating how the parallels between these two leaders. I didn't mean to interrupt. You carry on with your analysis on the threat to center right Christian democracy generally in Europe.

Aryan Agashahi (37:53)

Just want to add, it's called melanization nowadays, right of conservative parties. If a party in the opposition is portraying itself as somewhat conservative and right. And then when the party is elected on that premise, it's starting to change and transform and adapt centrist views. It's even called melanization. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. As you know, a real conservative, you, in my opinion, must believe in the idea of a marketplace of, in the principle of the marketplace of ideas. And, you know, we don't want to have a situation where you have only our opinion. So it is totally legitimate to have different political points of view. Therefore, the left parties who present themselves as left are not the problem because they are honest. They declare their goals, they say what they want. Illegal immigration, or actually legalizing illegal immigration, bureaucracy, high taxes, all these policies are actually written in the party manifestos of left parties. And it is legitimate to have a party which stands for these principles. What is dangerous and what is actually the situation in Germany is that you have a party which is just labeling itself as conservative to the voter, but not fulfilling any of its promises. And this is now going on for actually my entire lifetime. So in particular with our history, you know, as Germans, Germans are very hesitant to vote for a party which is openly right like the AfD. It's portraying itself as a real conservative and also right party. And because many in particular, you know, people with reputation, with bounds to, you know, higher class banking industry businesses, it is really hard to overcome this guilt associated to German history. And therefore there is big hesitation to vote for the AfD. And the CDU is perfectly using that by promising this electorate to be the much better alternative, you know, the professional and the serious alternative to the AfD. We, we maybe have similar goals, but we, you know, we are professionals and we know how to do this political business. And under this premise, they are attracting votes, votes, and then they are totally neglecting the will. So you have a parliamentary majority already in Germany between the CDU and the AfD in the German Parliament. But because of the firewall, no real legislation is passed based on the actual will of the populace. And the left party leader, of course, knows, know that it will be a big scandal in the media and a backfire if the CDU even would consider speaking to the AfD. And therefore the situation is, listen up, CDU, you have maybe 30 or 28% of the part of the seats in the Parliament. But you need to come with us left parties to get the necessary votes for legislation to pass. And therefore we will dictate to you what the spirit of the legislation is. And this is the gridlock in which our society right now, unfortunately is

Steve Bannon (41:52)

standby. I'm going to come back to ask you a little bit more about the firewall, which is something that comes up Brandt Mauer. I think that the German word is if I've got that right. That comes up very much in your interview with Dr. Hans Georg Marson. I'll be asking you a bit more about that interview just after the this short word regarding one of our sponsors. Do you owe back taxes? Or perhaps you haven't filed in years? Now is the time to resolve your tax matters. With the national conversation around abolishing the income tax system, the IRS is fighting back and proving it's here to stay by becoming more aggressive than ever before. They're sending out more collection notices, filing more tax leases liens and collecting billions more than in recent years. If you owe, the IRS can garnish your wages, levy your bank accounts, seize your retirement and even your home if you owe or haven't filed. It's not a question of if the IRS will act, its win. So right now Tax Network USA is offering a completely free IRS research and discovery call to show you exactly where you stand and what they can do to stop stop IRS's investigations on you before it's too late. Their powerful programs and strategies can save you thousands or even eliminate your debt entirely if you qualify. Don't make a costly mistake representing yourself or calling the IRS on your own waives your rights and cost you more money. They are not on your side. Get protected the right way with Tax Network USA and start the process on settling your tax matters once and for all. Call do it today. Call 1-800-958-1000 that's 1-800-958-10000 or visit tnusa.com Bannon for your free discovery call with Tax Network USA. Don't let the IRS be the first to act. Back now with Aryan Agashahi. Aryan, Just, just give me 60 seconds if you will for, for our largely American audience and explain what the firewall is imposed. It's like a very, it's basically the cordon sanitaire principle, but just that, that, that the, the, the mainstream political parties are applying against the populist nationalist iterations across Europe. Just explain what that is in practice. What does it mean?

Aryan Agashahi (44:21)

Yeah, I think for the American audience the best way to explain it is, you know, think back to the time where you had some, the Tea Party movement in the GOP and now imagine the then leadership of the GOP being able to actually artificially exclude everybody who stood for the Tea Party from the party process. This is what, what essentially happened in Germany. It's not 100% the same because we don't have a majority voting system. The parties in Germany has a different role than in the US but essentially from political theoretical perspective, it would be that you have all the established media, the elite, the mainstream, being able to exclude the entire Tea Party movement from the GOP and so that the Tea Party movement would never have been able to fundamentally translate, transform the Republican Party into what it became now. So the all the people who are represented by the AFD will were never able to become part of the democratic process of Germany because there is something called firewall which means we will exclude every single representative from this spectrum. Even if he's elected to the parliament, we will not even speak with him. And you know, I need to share this with you. Imagine if you have a business and your business is openly associated to the AfD. For instance, you are selling services to the AfD. And there are instances and I can prove that to you, you that in Germany, bank banks cancel the relationship to a service to a provider of services if the provider has relationships to the AfD. And so the, so the firewall is not just a political concept. It is actually a spirit which is transforming German society and which has created circumstances so that, you know, you have people who have a public opinion and then you have people who have a private opinion. And the private opinion and the public opinion differs very often because people are often afraid to say, yeah, maybe the AfD is not wrong, maybe I won't vote for them, but I think they are right. Even that could destroy not only your reputation, but, you know, your, your position in your job and your life livehood. At the end of the day,

Steve Bannon (47:21)

we're coming up to the end of our allotted time. It's, it's been fascinating to hear you and analyze these issues. My last quick question to you is, I know it's your view that basically it's, it was Angela Merkel's admittance of a million Syrians into Germany that created the AfD in its modern form. Your interview here with Hans Georg Marson really does talk about the difficulty of the German state and the lack of preparation for this absorption. One thing that came up in your interview was the state that Germany is going to be in, in 30 years time with it might still be considered to be a liberal democracy. And there's an interesting intuition that comes out of that interview view on, on how democracies that become totalitarian survive under their democratic form. Would you just give me sort of 60 seconds on that and then we'll wrap up with the socials?

Aryan Agashahi (48:27)

Yes, of course. You know Basically what you can say is that the moment in 2015 when Angela Merkel let in all the immigrants into Germany and it was a unilateral collateral decision by her government, it had no vote in the parliament, transformed not only the destiny of Germany, but also of Europe. You can argue that this decision contributed heavily to the Brexit vote in the uk. You can even argue that it had impact on the election in the US in 2016. And what happened with respect to Germany is actually the AFD which you see today, which is in the polls, the second largest party in Germany. This party was reborn after the immigration wave of 2015 because the party was already being in lower single digit numbers. And then after this influx of immigrants, against the will of a substantial part of the society, many people saw only the Hope in the AfD. And if you make such a fundamental decision and the people organize themselves in an opposition party, and if you then deny those people their vote, not really their vote, but actually the effect of their vote, then maybe formally you have a democracy, but you lose the spirit which is also necessary to have a democracy. Because democracy. Let me just cite this very important quote for me. It's from Justice Antonin Scalia and it was in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He was sitting next to then Justice Breyer and he was explaining that when he comes to a law school in the U.S. he says what makes the American Constitution strong are not the civil rights rights. What makes the Constitution strong is separation of powers. Because if you see the Constitution of the Soviet Republic, then you have much greater civil rights. But this is only a parchment guarantee. And adapting it to Germany, what is going on is we have a democratic process, but because of the handling of the AfD, this democratic, democratic process is partly a parchment guarantee.

Steve Bannon (51:01)

Aaron, we'll pick up this theme, get you back on the show. I will pick up on this scene very, very quickly. Time is running out. Where do people go on social media to keep up with your writings and especially your article with Dr. Hans Georg Miles Marston, which I do recommend, all about the president of the Federal Office of the Protection of the Constitution who ended up being mon monitored by the agency he wants ran for expressing views very similar to the ones you've been doing now on social media. Where do people go?

Aryan Agashahi (51:30)

Yeah. So on social media you can find me on X Ariane Dash Germany and the article can be found on Hungarian Conservative, which is a leading conservative publication which is managed by my friends from the Danube Institute.

Steve Bannon (51:52)

Very grateful indeed. Thanks for coming on the show. Last 20 seconds of the show. Don't forget to go to Birch Gold. Get your mobiles out. Text Bannon to 989-898 for more details. That's the end of the show. Have a great weekend, folks. My thanks to Spencer at Real America's Voice at that over there in Denver, Colorado, and of course to Victoria Santi Franco, who put this show together.

Steve Bannon (52:16)

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