WarRoom Battleground EP 978: Budapest Special: The Enemy Abroad; Radical Islam's Attempt To Conquer The West

Summary

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WarRoom Battleground EP 978: Budapest Special

The Enemy Abroad; Radical Islam's Attempt To Conquer The West

Date: March 30, 2026
Host: Stephen K. Bannon
Guest: Raymond Ibrahim (author, historian, and expert on Islam and Christian history)

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the “threat of radical Islam to the West,” particularly in the context of historical civilizational clashes and what guest Raymond Ibrahim calls “doormat Christianity.” Bannon and Ibrahim discuss historical patterns of Islamic conquest, the decline of assertive Christian identity in the West, and contemporary policy and cultural issues, especially as reflected in events in Texas and Europe. Ibrahim delivers and expands upon a talk he recently gave at Oxford on the decline of metaphysical and militant aspects of Christianity, arguing that this has created a vacuum now filled by resurgent Islam.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Historical Struggle Between Islam and Christianity

[00:55–05:23, 31:19–44:28]

• Ibrahim’s Books:
  • Sword and Scimitar details eight key battles between Muslims and Christians.
  • Defenders of the West covers eight Christian figures who resisted Islamic expansion.
  • The Two Swords of Christ explores military-religious Christian orders, their spiritual and temporal “two swords” doctrine.
• Historical Amnesia:
  • Many in the West forget that most of the Middle East and North Africa were originally Christian before being “violently annexed” by Islam.
    • Quote: “They still think that countries like Egypt and Syria and Turkey and North Africa were just always Islamic. Somehow they don't understand that they were actually more Christian than Europe and they were violently annexed.” – Bannon [04:52]
• Continuity in Islamic Doctrine:
  • Ibrahim maintains that Islamic thought and practice, especially jihad, has been consistent since its origins — the real change lies in the West’s abandonment of its own civilizational confidence and willingness to resist.

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2. “Doormat Christianity” and Cultural Decline

[07:26–16:44, 33:08–36:35]

• Modern Passivity:
  • Modern Christians, especially in Europe and the US, are characterized by passivity, an unwillingness to defend or assert moral and spiritual boundaries.
    • Quote: “Christians, as I argue, have adopted this sort of doormat Christianity… which means they believe their faith begins and ends with doing nothing but being passive, nice, forgiving, tolerant, and turning the other cheek.” – Ibrahim [07:46]
• Materialist Paradigm:
  • Ibrahim argues Christianity in the West has been reduced philosophically to a “materialist paradigm,” focused only on the physical and not the spiritual (metaphysical) or moral aspects which once provided moral clarity.
    • Quote: “One of the problems with Christianity in the modern era is that it has in very many ways adopted a materialist paradigm, not unlike atheists and secularists... despite the theological veneer of what they say.” – Ibrahim [10:40]
• Loss of Traditional Morality:
  • Once-central moral concepts (like the seven deadly sins) are now not only ignored but celebrated in Western society. Ibrahim points to the contrast between biblical Christian sexual mores and contemporary Western acceptance.
  • Quote: “Pride, of course, is exalted... Lust, that's everywhere you look... Gluttony, turn TV on. Everything's about putting images of food... these are the principal issues... at the heart of a Christian order, and they've just been completely so jettisoned.” – Ibrahim [14:14]
• Vacuous Christianity Enables Expansion:
  • The absence of metaphysical conviction has, according to Ibrahim, created a vacuum that Islam is now moving to fill — specifically noting Islam’s confidence in clear gender roles and social codes.

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3. Why Islam Appeals in the Modern West

[16:44–20:57, 40:20–41:53]

• Cultural Vacuum and Conversion:
  • Disillusionment with “modern secular liberal culture,” paired with a lack of robust Christian formation, leads some Westerners to find the clarity and militancy of Islam appealing.
    • Quote: “Western people who are turned off and find no resonance in modern secular liberal culture... turn to something like Islam, which on the heart of it doesn't make any sense. I wager if those people actually had a true Christian upbringing or according to the way I'm trying to describe it... they would not find Islam appealing.” – Ibrahim [18:13]
• Secular Society Enables “Islamophobia” Laws:
  • Ibrahim points to growing anti-criticism codes regarding Islam in Western countries, describing them as “new blasphemy codes.”

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4. A Call to Recover Christian Moral and Metaphysical Roots

[20:57–24:51, 33:08–36:35]

• Two Swords Theology:
  • Reference to the Gospel of Luke, where Christ’s “two swords” are interpreted as the spiritual and secular forms of resistance; this underpinned the Crusades and the military orders.
    • Quote: “There's a long and deep tradition... which is the two swords. One is spiritual... but one is secular warfare.” – Ibrahim [21:33]
• Push for Boldness, Not Just Passivity:
  • Calls for a “balance” between compassion and assertiveness, noting even Jesus expressed righteous indignation.
    • Quote: “Of course Jesus washed feet. That's not my argument. But there is a balance. Jesus also hurled tables and made a court of whips and drove people and livestock out.” – Ibrahim [21:20]
• Consequences of Inaction:
  • Warns passivity will lead to further marginalization or even an existential threat to Christian civilization.

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5. Historical Parallels and the Contemporary Moment

[31:19–44:28]

• Historical Islamic Expansion:
  • Bannon and Ibrahim recall the swift Islamic conquests from the 7th century onward, emphasizing that these societies were highly civilized and often Christian or Zoroastrian before being conquered.
• The “Warrior Ethos” and Crisis of Western Masculinity:
  • Islam’s militant and masculine appeal stands in stark contrast to the emasculated “doormat” stereotype permitted in today’s Christianity.
    • Quote: “The warrior ethos is so embedded within Islam and... has made it originally in its origins and now very attractive to men, including Western men who grow up being told they have to be women essentially.” – Ibrahim [40:20]

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6. Contemporary Policy and Social Commentary

[00:55–01:55, 44:40–46:28]

• Texas and Sharia Law:
  • Bannon references legislative battles in Texas regarding the prohibition of Sharia law, framing them as part of a broader civilizational defense.
• Radical Islam in US Foreign Policy:
  • Bannon links current Middle East conflicts, and specifically Iranian revolutionary ideology, to the broader historical trend.
    • Quote: “It is, at its essence, it's radical Islam... you cannot talk about what's happened in Persian Iran without getting to the core of it, that this is one of the most radical, if not the most radical part of Islam in this whole thing with the Mahdi and the Imam.” – Bannon [44:40]

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7. The West’s Future: Material Power without Civilizational Will?

[46:28–49:41]

• Material Strength vs. Cultural Will:
  • Ibrahim argues the West retains overwhelming material resources but lacks the will to confront threats as “civilizational degradation” saps its resistance.
    • Quote: “The west has definitely the material forces...the question is the will. And I, I don't know, because... it's a continuous downhill and there's... its culture, its morals...” – Ibrahim [46:28]
  • Historical parallels drawn to how “God’s punishment” was perceived during the original Islamic conquests.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “This is the primal scream of a dying regime... We're going medieval on these people.”
  — Stephen K. Bannon [00:03]

• “Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.”
  — Stephen K. Bannon [00:34]

• “Jihad, remember, just means to struggle. And sure its primary expression historically has been physical military struggle, but it also has all these different forms... including the baby jihad which is a demographic overwhelming of the west.”
  — Raymond Ibrahim [03:38]

• “Doormat Christianity is not going to stand up against Islam... it's completely about just being passive.”
  — Raymond Ibrahim [19:44]

• “If you look back, you zoom out and see what's been going on, it's just been one incremental slow degrade. And no matter how many, no matter what people are saying or doing or books or conferences, if you look at the scale, it goes down little... one step forward, three steps back.”
  — Raymond Ibrahim [22:53]

• “Have you ever heard... anywhere in the Muslim world where they've invited a Christian cleric, a Catholic priest or Christian pastor into a mosque to claim the word of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? ...On a large scale level... No.”
  — Stephen K. Bannon & Raymond Ibrahim [36:35–37:11]

• “The warrior ethos is so embedded within Islam and... now very attractive to men, including Western men who grow up being told they have to be women essentially.”
  — Raymond Ibrahim [40:20]

• “I'm wondering to what extent is this the punishment of God? ...the Apocalypse by Pseudo Methodius... was due to sexual immorality. And it actually talked about men cross dressing, women, acting like men...”
  — Raymond Ibrahim [47:52]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ibrahim explains the themes of his three books – [02:48–07:26]
• Definition and dangers of “doormat Christianity” – [07:26–08:31], [33:08–36:35]
• Oxford talk: materialism, loss of morals, and rise of Islam in the West – [09:15–24:51]
• The “two swords” theology and militant Christianity – [21:20–22:53]
• Historical overview of Islamic conquest and Christian response – [31:19–44:28]
• Discussion on modern masculinity, Islam’s appeal, and Western decline – [40:20–41:53]
• Does the West still have the will to resist? – [46:28–49:41]
• Where to find Ibrahim’s books and writing – [49:41–50:33]

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Memorable Moments

• Ibrahim’s comparison of American society today to late Rome, suggesting spiritual and moral collapse enable external conquest.
• Lively critique of interfaith dialogue practices in the UK: “It’s a one-way dialogue... Islam doesn’t do that.” – Bannon & Ibrahim [37:11]
• Bannon and Ibrahim’s agreement that Western churches now actively undermine their own traditions by privileging interfaith gestures over self-preservation.

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Conclusion & Resources

The episode provides a sweeping survey of history, ideology, and current events, forcefully arguing that the West’s cultural and spiritual disarmament sets the stage for the rise of radical Islam at home and abroad. Ibrahim’s books—Sword and Scimitar, Defenders of the West, and Two Swords of Christ—are cited as essential reading for anyone wanting to understand the long-term roots of today’s conflicts.

Where to Find More:

• Raymond Ibrahim’s books: Search by title on Amazon
• Substack: Raymond Ibrahim
• YouTube: Raymond Ibrahim’s channel, including the Oxford talk

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Transcript

[Stephen K. Bannon]

This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

Pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on these people. Reasons I got a free shot.

All these networks lying about the people,

the people have had a belly full of it.

I know you don't like hearing that.

I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen. And where do people like that go

to share the big lie?

MAGA MEDIA I wish in my soul,

I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my

country, this country will be saved.

[Doug]

War Room here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Okay, welcome.

You're in the War Room on our six o' clock show, which always very special to us. Raymond Ibrahim joins us from Budapest. Raymond, I know you're just back from Oxford and in fact we're going to play a talk you gave there. It doesn't take very long. I think it's 10 or 15 minutes we're going to play that and I want you to break it down for it. It's about Doormat Christianity. The, the reason I want to have you on was one, obviously this. You kind of shocked him in Oxford. But you're, I believe, if not the best, one of the top two or three best writers that informs the west of this long struggle we've had with Islam. And you've done it through a series of three books. Talk about the books. First, I want to play the Oxford talk and then we're going to break it down in a minute. But in a time that we're in another Middle east war with a radical sect of Islam, The Shiite, the 12th Imam sect, in this kind of radical theology which we've been in and out fighting for 47 years. At the same time, I've been spending so much time in Texas in the show for good reason about the Islamic invasion. And I've told people it's much farther advanced than I thought. And this deals with the overwhelming victory we had on the proposition 10 to ban or prohibit, let me be specific, prohibit Sharia law in the state of Texas. To have your counsel on this and to put it in historical perspective is always important. So before I play Oxford, do me a favor and just walk through your background in all three of the books. One of them is out currently and I want as many people as possible to buy, plus the other two. They're, they're fantastic and they kind, they kind of form a trilogy.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Thank you very much, Steve. Yeah. To understand what we're talking about today, Islam in the west and all its different iterations, most recently what's happening with Iran. I've always believed that there's been a complete vacuum in your average American and Westerner in general's knowledge of history. And that's why so much of what we believe and accept and let get away, it happens because we don't understand the full context of it. And we just think it's about, oh, you know, people, people are being multicultural and open minded and not bigoted towards Muslims, for example. But if you really look into the history, which is what I've been doing for about 25 years now, actually including in those three books, which I'll summarize, if you look at the history, you'll understand that this battle has been going on from day one, literally, and it hasn't really changed in its manifestation, at least not from the Muslim side. The Muslims are still preaching jihad amongst each other, they're still practicing Taqaya amongst the infidel, and they're still engaged in all the various forms of jihad which they've articulated. Jihad, remember, just means to struggle. And sure its primary expression historically has been physical military struggle, but it also has all these different forms which we're seeing now, including the baby jihad which is a demographic overwhelming of the west, for example. The only discontinuity is from the Western side. So whereas Muslims today are really, you know, lock stuff and barrel with their, their heritage, which comes out in all of these books, it's the west and especially the Christians who've completely lost touch with that long history. So in these books we will see, for example, in Sword and Scimitar, we look at this long history. That's, that's the first book which comes out in 2018. Came out in 2018. I really focus on eight pivotal battles that changed the world forever. And they were between Christians and Muslims. And these battles, you know, the first

[Stephen K. Bannon]

one or two saw the conquest of

[Raymond Ibrahim]

essentially three quarters of what was once

[Stephen K. Bannon]

the Christian world, which very few Westerners

[Raymond Ibrahim]

still understand at this point.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

They still think that countries like Egypt and Syria and Turkey and North Africa were just always Islamic. Somehow they don't understand that they were actually more Christian than Europe and they were violently annexed. And so that there is a lesson that this could happen. There's that famous quote I always talk about from Theodore Teddy Roosevelt where he talks about if Christians did not fight constantly and he mentions virtually every century against the Muslims, they would have been eliminated completely.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

So I think that's what people are forgetting. So to, from my vantage point, or anyone who reads these books, what you'll see is that the Muslims have been doing what they're. What they've been doing from day. Nothing has changed. What has changed is the Western response. Okay. And that actually the. And the perfect. You know, that's a good segue for my second book, Defenders of the west, the Christian heroes who stood against Islam, where I look at another eight men this time, not battles, but actual men, to see what drove them, Christians, Europeans against Islam. And you know, these, these were guys who were really pious. It's unfortunate because they get dismissed as all. These weren't true Christians, probably because they're all Catholic because this is the pre modern medieval era. So they had to of course, be Catholic and some are orthodox, but, you know, they had no qualms about fighting fire with fire. They understood that, you know, that they were not what I'm, what I refer to as doormat Christians. They were quite the opposite. They were immensely militant, but they were also immensely pious. And that comes up to the third book, the most recent one that just came out in November, the Two Swords of Christ, which deals with the military orders. And these were the creme de la creme of the defenders. These were men who were essentially monks, who were engaged in such a rigorous form of essentially monasticism. And at the same time there were ferocious warriors. Okay, So a very strange hybrid for the Western especially Christian mind to comprehend today. But they did it actually from Scripture. So the title of the book, Two Swords of Christ was one of the verses that they always would talk about that essentially justified their rationale. And, and that's the verse where in Luke, Jesus says, sell your garment by a sword. And they say, look, look, Lord, here are two swords. And he says, that is enough. That of course means absolutely nothing today to the doormat Christian mentality. It's just, you know, more fuzzy talk. But to medieval Christians, what it really meant is there. There's two forms of warfare that Christians are engaged in. One, of course, is against spiritual forces against.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

And one is against secular material forces, humans, okay?

[Raymond Ibrahim]

And both need a sword to be resisted.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

So that was the mentality of pre modern Europe.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

And that. So now bringing it all forward to

[Stephen K. Bannon]

today and coalescing all that has been

[Raymond Ibrahim]

jettisoned, Christians, as I argue, have adopted

[Stephen K. Bannon]

this sort of doormat Christianity, as I

[Raymond Ibrahim]

call it, which means they believe their faith begins and ends with doing nothing

[Stephen K. Bannon]

but being passive, nice, forgiving, tolerant, and turning the other cheek. All of which by the way, are very easy. Those are a lot easier to do than to actually stand up with a sword like their predecessors did. But that's also why the jihad after being stopped and on the retreat, basically that's what the colonial era was. This was finally the rise of a confident west and the demise of Islam. Now we are, it's reversing because the west has lost confidence, has lost the ability to resist, has lost its Christian rationale for just war, etc. Essentially and Islam is still continuing to do what it did from day one.

Raymond, hang on for one second. I'll get into why you were invited. Well, how did Oxford invite you? Because I got a couple minutes, I'm going to play the play in its entirety. How did Oxford invite you?

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Well, I'm. I'm currently a visiting fellow at the Danube Institute in Hungary and this particular event was sort of a joint conference by it's the Pusey House of Oxford as well as the Danube Institute. So it was in that context and the event itself, Christian revival was definitely applicable to my themes.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Unbelievable. Okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to go now to the Talk takes about 15 minutes and then Raymond and I will be back on the other side.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Everyone very happy to be with you.

[Doug]

I'm generally seen as the Islam guy and I talk about that big issue. But seeing that this is a Christian revival conference and the fact that Islam and Christianity, there's something of a symbiotic relationship going on, I have to actually talk about both. And because it's really all interrelated and so what I'd like to start off with when I think of problems is, well, what's the first things? What's the first premise at the problem? And I often think that many people don't really see it or don't talk about it. We tend to talk about symptoms, Islam itself in the west, in Europe, in the uk. I see it as a symptom. I don't see it as an inherent or innate problem. And it's a symptom of essentially the weakening or the dying of Christianity in the West. So how did that happen? And one of the thoughts that's I've been, that's been percolating in my mind and I've been thinking about and talking about quite often is the idea that one of the problems with Christianity in the modern era is that it has in very many ways adopted a materialist paradigm, not unlike atheists and secularists and by that I don't mean materialistic as in covetous. I mean it in a more philosophical sense, a materialist paradigm, in the sense that all that is real, let's say from an atheist point of view, all that is real is what. It's the material, right?

[Stephen K. Bannon]

It's.

[Doug]

It's the physical world. It's what I can see, feel, touch and measure. And all this abstract talk about your morality and your religion and all this sort of thing is usually jettisoned. And that's one of the problems. But I fear, and I think, and I see, that much of Christianity in all of its manifestations in the modern era has adopted this worldview, despite the theological veneer of what they say. So, in other words, a Christian can, of course, express profound theological truisms, but at the same time, it, you know, as they say, the proof is in the pudding. And what I'm seeing is, so how is a Christian becoming a materialist paradigm in a philosophical sense?

[Raymond Ibrahim]

If you look at.

[Doug]

What if I speak to a Christian, what is the greatest evil that you can engage in? I think a lot of people will say what a atheist would say, which is physical harm. Okay, physical, physically harming someone and much worse, of course, killing someone. And I agree, of course, those are great evils. No one would argue that. But unbeknownst to most Christians, that was actually more of a minor aspect of the message of Christianity, the entire ethos, the morality that was created. And in short, before I elaborate, the problem with materialist Christianity, which in many ways has, like I said, permeated the worldview of all Christians, is that it perfectly comports with secularism and atheism. And that is why Christianity is still allowed to live side by side with a secular or even atheistic world environment, because it also agrees all that we

[Raymond Ibrahim]

want to do is make sure no one's physically hurt.

[Doug]

There's no violence. But the question now becomes, what happened to morality? That was a word that used to be pivotal and important and fundamental to something like Christianity. Where is. What is there morality anymore? And I'm not talking, of course, about individual Christians. I'm sure there are many devout Christians still in the world. But it's not something that is socially acknowledged or something much less that is socially pursued that we talk about. Okay, so. And once one, I think this is my realization when I think about it and how morality is not complete, is no Western people and Christians will say they're moral. But again, it's through a materialist paradigm. And you know that by simply looking at what used to be the greatest sins and the greatest evils for a society. And all of them are, to various degrees, completely accepted by Christians today. And all one has to do is look at the sexual mores of the west today. And very few Christians will even argue or talk about it or even dispute it. And they'd be, of course, scandalized to feel like they have to talk about it. But if you look at historic Christianity, biblical Christianity, Christianity in all of its forms, something like sexual mores, sexual sins, that was one of the pinnacles and the, one of the most unquestioned aspects of Christianity. So you see, this is why, why is it not being mentioned? Because, well, no one's hurting anyone. And so that's what I mean. That's a perfect example of how a Christian adopts the materialist worldview. Now, there used to be something, and just to make it simple, you may have heard, I'm sure you, you have, of course, many Catholics, Anglicans, of the seven deadly sins, which actually very much informed the worldview of Christians in the pre modern era. And they are, I often miss, but let's see. Wrath, greed, gluttony, envy, lust, sloth. And I always miss one.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Pride.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, the worst one. Yeah, I know the root of them all. Yeah, you're right. Okay, so think about those seven things now, okay? That is what a Christian society thought about. Now, these are all metaphysical. They're not material, okay? These were metaphysical principles. This is what Christianity was all about. Notice killing is not one of the seven deadly sins. Why?

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Because it's a byproduct.

[Doug]

Of course it's evil and you shouldn't do it, but it wasn't seen as a root cause. Now when I look at these, the seven deadly sins, which were fundamental to a Christian in society, to Christendom essentially for centuries up until actually quite recently. Not only are they not something that we talk about or something we condemn, they are in fact what we now celebrate. And much of our economy is based on it. And we call ourselves Christians and we live with it and we live in peace with this. And I find that very interesting. Pride. Pride, of course, is exalted pride. You know, pride month. Think about that. Lust, that's everywhere you look. It's, it's, it's promoted, it's, it's glamorized envy. Just think social media, okay? Gluttony, turn TV on. Everything's about, you know, putting images of food, sloth. So it's kind of amazing that to me, these are the principal issues. These are the first things that were actually at the heart of a Christian order, and they've just been completely so jettisoned. And very few Christians even understand this. And that's the point. This is so subtle and so incremental that. And the reason is, the best way I can put it is because Christians, one way or the other, over the decades and possibly centuries, have just adopted a very materialist worldview, which is that, yeah, we talk about the afterlife, we talk about sin, we talk about being saved, but in the end, when it comes to society, we begin and end with just not hurting people. Okay, so that's become the ultimate Christian virtue. And it is a virtue. I'm not arguing that, but I'm trying to say there was so much more above it which actually gave meaning to life. Now, what happens when society, such as Western society, European society, jettisons what I'm talking about, which is essentially the metaphysical aspect of Christianity? You can actually call it the spiritual aspect because the. The physical or material aspect. What's the corollary is a metaphysical. The beyond the physical.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Well, that's the spiritual.

[Doug]

And I just think it's funny because a lot of Christians today, when they say the word spiritual, it means some sort of abstract, fuzzy feeling. Actually, I think to be spiritual is to be engaged and to comprehend and try to exercise the metaphysical, Metaphysical aspects of Christianity. The things that are beyond the physical, that are not measurable, that deal with morals and ethics and that sort of thing. Now, when all that is jettisoned, as it has been in recent generations, a vacuum is created. And that's, I think, where we are. And what does nature abhor? It abhors a vacuum. Enter Islam. Well, Islam, of course, is its own body system. It's its own religion. It has its own teachings. It, you know, one can be very hostile to it or critical of it. And I'm, of course, associated with those views. But we have to be honest, it also brings a sort of traditional worldview. It knows what a woman is and it knows what a man is. It's not confused about that, for example. And it has all sorts of things that were very traditional that Europeans and Christians would have agreed with historically. So I think that aspect be in its confidence. So now you have a vacuum in Europe, in the west in general, because of the reasons I've outlined dealing with the sort of slow melting away of Christianity based on these philosophical or epistemological underpinnings. Now you have Islam coming in, and it may have all its problems and all, but it's still, it's very visceral, it's down to earth and it does offer all of these things that are filling the vacuum. Okay? And this is why you find Western, Western people who are turned off and find no resonance in modern secular liberal culture and they turn to something like Islam, which on the heart of it doesn't make any sense. I wager if those people actually had a true Christian upbringing or according to the way I'm trying to describe it, which is actually much more fused with a metaphysical understanding, they would not find Islam appealing. But that's what I mean. There's a very vacuum now. So that even something that is inherently inferior in as much as it offers something of a primordial conservative worldview that still resonates with all humans, then it becomes appealing and then it's all, especially in this country, it's coalescing in a very strange way. As you all know now that there's a new blasphemy code or about Islam, a new anti Islamophobia or anti Islam hostility thing. And of course this is just, this is that one more way to help Islam to become more empowered, more entrenched. You can't even criticize it. And I haven't looked as closely as I'd like to, the wording, but it seems, it's very fuzzy, intentionally so and vague, so that anything it says, things like encouraging hostility or well, who's going to decide all that and all of this. So the kind of Christianity that I'd like to see go away and I'd like to see it sort of bring back a more traditional form of Christianity that prevailed during Christendom. Well, what I call, let's put it this way, I've tried to coin a word, I call it doormat Christianity. And I think this is the modern form of Christianity whereby Christians are taught again, in keeping with what I'm saying, this materialist idea to just be doormats. Okay? Christianity begins and ends by you being a doormat. You're non confrontational, you lay down, everyone walks all over you and then you get to pat yourself on the shoulder and say, hey, look, I'm virtuous, I'm good. It's also a way to make, it's a way of making turning of vice, cowardice into a virtue, I think. And that's why it's become very prevalent what I call doormat Christianity. Doormat Christianity is not going to stand up against Islam. And that's what we're seeing. In fact, that kind of Christianity, which is completely about Just being passive. Who do you think benefits from it most of all? It's probably the more of an enemy you are to Christianity, the more the prevalent form of doormat Christianity works and serves perfectly to empower the opposite forces. So I think Christians need to recapture and reclaim a sense of morality and a sense of the metaphysical, because otherwise you don't.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

It's.

[Doug]

And again, I'm going back to the first premises. These are. These are the building blocks. Without these, I don't believe that, let's say the Islam problem cannot necessarily be addressed in and of itself. You can't maintain a sort of this current culture which, with all its confusions and sort of break away from Christianity and then be able to resist something like Islam. I think it's all very interconnected. If you go back, and you can easily see this, go back a century to the way Western Europeans and Westerners thought and Christians thought, you wouldn't have this Islam problem at all even if it existed. It would immediately be solved. So I think there's a lot of paralysis going on amongst Christians because they just feel like, like I said, the best they can do is to just be just what they've been taught and bred, including, like I said, by forces that don't like Christianity. I saw a video in the Super Bowl a couple years ago, and as you know, super bowl commercials, super bowl commercials tend to. They're very prominent and very mainstream. And all it was was images of people washing people's feet. But for some reason, all the people who were washing the feet looked like white traditional Christian people. And all the people getting their feet washed were. Well, one was a trans man, one was. Obviously, it was like on a migrant border and it was an illegal migrant. One was a woman committing an abortion or at an abortion center. And people are protesting, but another woman's washing her feet and all. And one was a criminal and a policeman was washing his feet. And then it ended up by seeing Jesus didn't hate, he washed feet. And you can just see that kind of message, how it is completely geared to weakening Christianity by also. But making you think you're being a good Christian because there's no balance. Of course Jesus washed feet. That's not my argument. But there is a balance. Jesus also hurled tables and made a court of whips and drove people and livestock out. So there is a room, I believe, for, well, the Bible says so righteous indignation that is at least funneled in a proper way. And all of that, I guess, is missing. And in as much as possible People don't get that. I think a lot of this is futile and I'll end it by what I call the two swords theology. I just wrote a book that came out a few months ago. It's called the Two Swords of Christ and it deals with the military orders and their battles with Islam, the Templars and Hospitallers. But there's a second meaning to the title and it's basically in Luke where Christ says he doesn't have a garment, sell it and buy a sword. And the disciples say, lord, here are two swords. And he says, that is enough. Now, of course, the modern day Christians, that means absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean anything about a real sword. But of course there's a long and deep tradition, pre modern, especially medieval understanding, which is the two swords. One is spiritual, which I think modern Christians still accept spiritual warfare, but one is secular warfare. Okay. And that's, that was the whole rationale for just war. That was the whole rationale for the Crusades, which I'm sure a lot of people think are not what they really were. But so that kind of mentality. And again, it's not about physical, not necessarily literal, it's just about being bold and militant, at least vocally. And in, in your approach to what's happening. Because if you look back, you zoom out and see what's been going on, it's just been one incremental slow degrade. And no matter how many, no matter what people are saying or doing or books or conferences, if you look at the scale, it goes down little. It's like one step forward, three steps back. And that's how it's been going. So I think in part with Christian revival and the Islam threat, Christians just need to again, go to these first things and really recapture a sense of morality that that is above and beyond just physical considerations. And once that is done, because like I said, it's all interconnected, the Islam question will become a lot easier to answer almost instinctively and very natively.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Okay, we're going to, I'm going to get Raymond back into the conversation a moment. We're going to take a short commercial break. We're going to leave you with in a moment with Nicole Negrady's modern day Holy War. I don't think any song could be better for today. Want to remind you in Turbulence as you know, how this war is evolving and particularly President Trump, pretty blunt today, earlier in the day when he had the Irish Prime Minister in the Oval Office talking about the lack of NATO not coming forward to really support US in the naval endeavor in the Straits of Hormuz. And that means they're not going to be there for the Red Sea, which is the Suez Canal. So I think very, very disappointing times of turbulence are going to be with us. When I say turbulence and geopolitical risk, I mean war and the rumors of war. We try to do our best to cover this every day. For you, one of the ways that you can protect yourself, particularly your financial downside in times of turbulence, is talk to the team at Birchgold, Philip Patrick and the team, birchgold.com, promo code Bannon end of the dollar empire. You can go see whether dollar's been under siege one number one for a massive federal spending during Biden's time when it lost 20% of its purchasing power and you had the rise of gold. Understand all that. It's not just talking about the price of gold. It's talking about the process of actually how we got there. So make sure you go to birchgold.com promo code Bannon promo code Bannon and you get the End of the Dollar Empire totally free online. You can get the new book, I've got it right here, End of the Dollar Empire, the Patriots edition in hard copy. It is now taught in graduate school school at the University of Arkansas. So check it out today. Short commercial break Abram Raymond Abraham is with us. Just gave an explosive talk at Oxford on Doormat Christianity. We'll break it all down next in Worm.

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[Doug]

War room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Ban.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Raymond, you made a great point. We say this all the time. When. When Islam roared out of the Saudi Arabian peninsula. What, in the seventh century, for those hundred years, the great cultures, ancient cultures, and many of them have had accepted Christianity, Egypt and Syria being the two most significant because the church was a desert church in those early years. You had Egypt, Syria, Babylon, which is modern day Iraq. Persia, another ancient society, had been at war with the Roman Empire forever. And then Spain, you had. And then eventually the orthodox part of it, Constantinople, all that. You had Byzantine culture, which was really the Roman East. Unbelievable track record of overwhelming these societies and taking over their cultures. Most people don't know that. They thought they were Islamic.

No.

They were either Zoroastrian, as the Persians were, or they had very deep roots in Christianity. North Africa, I tell people all the time. St. Augustine, really, I think probably the greatest intellect we had in the early church, I think was Berber. He was North African. You had the desert fathers in Egypt and Syria. It was the desert church. And of course, you had all the saints that came out of the desert. It really overwhelmed it. And you really went to Oxford, which was set up. Cambridge and Oxford are set up as great centers of learning for Christianity. When they were set up, they've lost their way. And you really hammered them on doormat Christianity. Just explain to our audience what that means after they heard your talk. And why did you come up with that topic to go to Oxford and really to throw down on.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Well, I think what they wanted was for me to primarily talk about Islam, and I did. But I don't think it's useful to talk about Islam without the full context and understanding the vacuum within Christian civilization which Islam is filling. And so I decided to address the topic of doormat Christianity, by which I mean, again, this idea, this, you know, that a real Christian is, you know, just completely passive, always turns the other cheek, never judges, is never confrontational, just is a doormat. And, you know, the temptation of that sort of interpretation is, of course, there's verses in the Bible that would seem to support that sort of thing, but there's also other verses and anecdotes from the New Testament, including Jesus's life, that don't. And I find it interesting. Why does it. Why do. Why do Christians always like to focus on one without the other? The same Jesus who said turn the other cheek didn't turn the other cheek when he was, when he was actually slapped, he questioned and was confrontational with the person, the soldier who slapped him. And he also, he was, he engaged in violence. I think hurling tables and making a court of whips and whipping both cattle

[Stephen K. Bannon]

and humans out of a temple is a violent expression. So I just feel that Christians need to recapture and get a balance, a harmony, okay, what is a heresy, a heresies, when you really focus on one aspect of the faith and to the exclusion of everything else. And I believe that to a great extent is what doormat Christianity has become. And that is why the greatest civilization born of Christian mores and ethos, the west, is completely crumbling because of this social paralysis that it's been infected by, which, which makes Christians think that all I have to do is, you know, just pray and wait and listen to God and just do nothing and I'll get better. Well, that's kind of what's been going on for decades. And look where the west is. Look where Europe is right now. Like I said, Islam hasn't changed. It's been doing what it's been doing, swallowing up all if it, if it managed to swallow up the older, as you were mentioning Egypt and Syria and in North Africa and all these nations that were the heart of the Christian world. This is where the theology was coming from. This is where the church fathers were coming from and they were Christian for centuries. And if they were able to be conquered and swallowed up, do you think in Europe, we know it was the final bastion.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

It's called the west for a reason. It was the final Western appendage of Christendom that still didn't get conquered and portions of it did for long periods of time, such as Spain and the Balkans, the Mediterranean island. So people have forgotten all this history and the Muslim impetus has not changed whatsoever. And, but, but the west and Christians have completely dropped their guard and they don't feel like they can ever engage in violence or, or even be confrontational. We're at a point where Christians don't even have to engage in violence. That's the whole point. But it's going to get to the point where if they don't do anything, it will be a matter of survival, you know, life or death, survival, the fittest. But Christians can't even get to the point where they're, you know, assertive and confrontational about their own particular beliefs vis a vis the other, let's say Islam. And they always, you know, these churches in England that I visited, they frequently invite Muslim imams to come and proclaim Quranic verses, often the ones that are antithetical to Christianity. And no Muslim would ever do that. Okay, and, and so it's, it's that divide.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Have you ever heard, okay, have you

ever heard, when you talk about, when you talk about this interfaith dialogue, have you ever heard. You're an expert. Have you ever heard of anywhere in the Muslim world where they've invited a Christian cleric, a Catholic priest or Christian pastor into a mosque to claim the word of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Sir, I've never heard. I don't necessarily discount it because there could be some fringe small mosque that is trying to make win brownie points with some Westerner, but on a, on a large scale level, the way we see it.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

No, but, but Raymond, if that had happened, if that is. Ha. If that had happened, the Muslim world, they be beheaded as apostates. The one thing about the Muslim world, whether it's Sunni or Shia, they sell. They self police, they self police, they. Don't you see this happening in churches in, in England where this interfaith dialogue is what it's called. It's really just kowtowing to Islam. But Islam doesn't do that.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

It's one way. It's a one way dialogue with your.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Yeah, one way.

Doug, I want to go back in history though, with your writings and your books. And if we get a chance, while we talk, guys, put the covers of the books back up.

As it blew through Persia and it

blew through Egypt and it blew through North Africa and it blew through Syria and it blew through Babylon, you know, the Tigris and Euphrates and then started to blow through the orthodox part, roaring out of Saudi Arabia. It was stopped really in, in places like Vienna and places like tours which people don't realize how deep into, deep into France that was. And then eventually it was reversed in Spain and Spain wanted back. And as soon as Spain wanted back, they started the exploration of the new world. All of really modern history is tied to this. Its antecedents are tied into this struggle between the Christian west and Islam. But in reading your books, whether I'm talking about different sieges or, you know, in the Mediterranean islands or in the Balkans or up in Europe, it was a confrontation, if you had not confronted it, with not just military power, but the internal fortification and formation of a religion that informed you, informed in your formation, told you that you must fight for this, that you cannot surrender. If you surrender on this, then you're really not a Christian. You're really not a believer in Christ. And what it gave the inner energy of people is throughout your books. And I think that's the two most important lessons I think that are lost here is how these cultures and societies were very developed that they took over and had deep religious practices, particularly in Persia with what the Mithras religion. And then Zoroastrism also up in Syria had turned. Had basically started to convert to Christianity. But they had other religions too. Same with Egypt. Egypt has a ancient religious faith, but it also had many. I think you're of Egyptian descent. It also had a big Christian community until it was confronted by the Christian west in places like from Vienna to Tours. Right. And then later in Spain until it was confronted. It was overwhelming everything. And so the two lessons is, it's a. And they kind of teach a warrior's philosophy. I think that's why so many young men are attracted to Islam. Your thoughts, Raymond Ibrahim?

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Absolutely. And. And you nailed it with that. It is it. The warrior ethos is so embedded within Islam and that makes it. Has made it originally in its. In its origins and in the now very attractive to men, including Western men who grow up being told they have to be women essentially. And emasculated or doormat Christians, they find that appealing. But little do they know that their own Christian tradition has a very rich history. Tradition with. Of. Of standing up and fighting back.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

The concept of just war, all those, you know, you discussed all those battles and Vienna and tours, and it goes on. Even the United States of America. Think about it. This is how this was a constant thing. You know, even the United States of America's very first war as a nation was with Muslims who were acting and speaking just like isis, the, The Barbary pirates of North Africa who were kidnapping American sailors and holding and enslaving them and doing all sorts of vile things to them. And when, when Jefferson and Adams finally met with the Barbary ambassador and they said, can't we just be friends? Well, you know, we did. We did nothing to you. You can have your religion. We'll just trade. And he just said, according to our prophet Muhammad, according to the Quran, you are the infidel, you are the enemy. It's our job to lay in wait and plunder you and enslave you and so forth. Okay, so even America's very first experience as a nation put aside all those other ex. You know, what we were talking about, Vienna and all these major battles. And you know, you also made a good point about.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

It's true.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

The Entire exploration age as it's called, was also a reflection of this non stop constant struggle coming primarily from Islam, Christopher Columbus and even before him, the Portuguese, Prince Henry for example, the reason they were trying to navigate and go around Africa was always in the context of the crusade against Islam, including to recapture the Holy Land from Muslims. This would be in the 1400s, Prince Henry for example. But then even later, Columbus, remember Isabella and Ferdinand were avowed crusaders against Islam in Spain. And it's, and they, and they were the final, the culmination of the Reconquista and getting rid of Islam after having dealt with it for seven, eight centuries. Okay, and why did they get Columbus in their employ? It was in the context of continuing the Crusade. Now we've evicted them, now we have to go back to the Holy War. And the reason they had to sail is because Christians could not travel by land to the east because that was where the Muslims, the Ottomans and the Mamluks in Egypt. And once you enter there, you're killed or enslaved immediately. So that's, that's why they were looking, you know, for different passages. So it's amazing when you think about that the very history of the founding, the existence of the west is so heavily shaped by Islam in a negative way, in a, in a violent way. One historian says Islam was a violent midwife that gave birth to the West. Henry Perrin said the Dark Ages and the rise of feudalism and Charlemagne would have been impossible without Muhammad. You know, they're very intertwined, but not in a, in a good way. And yet that's all been lost on so many Westerners, which is why I wrote these books, you know, to document all this and bring it back. But it's so lost on Westerners who've been, you know, believing that oh, Islam is peace and you know, you know, John Esposito, the professor from Georgetown, he says five, five centuries of peaceful coexistence elapsed between Muslims and Christians until an imperial imperial papal power play led to a series of so called holy wars which have left a leg of enduring mistrust. So basically those centuries we're talking about when Muslims conquered the old Christian world and Persia and we didn't even talk about further east conquering India and Pakistan of course were, are Indians who became Muslims after about 80 million of them

[Stephen K. Bannon]

were killed between 1100 and 1500 and further east and into sub Saharan Africa of course, where now we're seeing Muslims slaughtering, in, engaged in genocide against Christians.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

So all this is just, you know,

[Stephen K. Bannon]

yesterday was yesterday the day before was combat. Combat, Islamophobia day, according to the U.N. okay, that's what we're talking about. Not, not this.

No, this is ridiculous. Can we, in the time we have left, given that we're in a kinetic war driven by. And I realize, oh, it's the nuclear weapon. It's this and that. It's this and that. It is, at its essence, it's radical Islam. I'm not saying that we should have gone at the time we went or how we went. That's a discussion for another day. But you cannot talk about what's happened in Persian Iran without getting to the core of it, that this is one of the most radical, if not the most radical part of Islam in this whole thing with the Mahdi and the Imam. And it almost seems like people, oh, my gosh, we got to go back after 9, 11. We have to go back after, you know, after the Iraq war or after the, during the Iraq War or during the time when President Trump put the travel ban in. We have to go back and study it. Yes, you have to. Because a lot of Westerners, like people in London, the elites in London, people in Norway, people in Sweden, people in New York City, some people in Texas, they believe if you just don't confront it and you look the other way, it's going to take care of itself and everything is going to be fine. I'm here to disabuse you of that. And I can point to some of the smartest people in the world and some of the best researchers and writers in the world that give you a historical record where that is the exact. That definitely does not work. In fact, it will lead you to be conquered. Raymond, in the time we have left. Now, given your historical perspective of their previous invasions, do we have a fighting chance, given the weak willed nature of our elites and our political systems in the Christian west, and particularly the United States of America, to combat this, to stop it, and then to reverse it.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Sir, I think, you know, the west has definitely the material forces, the economy to do what needs to be done. And, but it's, as you say, the question is the will. And I, I don't know, because the way I see it, I see things from a very kind of zoomed out long view with historical continuities. And if you look even at the west, just the last 50 years, 60, 70 years, it's a continuous downhill and there's, you know, it's locked, it's, it's connected with its civilizational degradation. Okay, It's Its culture, its morals, you know this, it's funny, I don't know if I mentioned this to you before, but the historical Islamic conquests that we know, that we were talking about in the seventh century, you know, historians still really can't give you an answer how it happened. Because Eastern Roman Empire, the Persian Sasanians were very powerful. And no one really, how can some, you know, just a small band of Arabs described even in Muslim sources as just having, you know, being naked and whatever weapons they can find. How could they conquer two empires and then overrun all these massive lands? And, you know, today's historians can't give you a good answer, but they'll come up with something and I can give you what they say. But the Christians of the time, who lived there, they were convinced it was God's punishment, that God had raised these people up to chastise them for their sins.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

And ironically, the most influential writing, it's

[Raymond Ibrahim]

known as the Apocalypse by Pseudo Methodius. And it was published around 690, at

[Stephen K. Bannon]

the height of the Arab conquests. And it came out in Syriac, but it continued influencing Christians.

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Even in 1683, at the siege of

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Vienna, it was being translated and published within Vienna to explain why Christians were

[Raymond Ibrahim]

being attacked by the Turks.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

And that one says not only because Christians had lost their way, but it

[Raymond Ibrahim]

was due to sexual immorality. And it actually talked about men cross dressing, women, acting like men, okay? And it was very, very, hugely popular. Now, of course, from a secular historical point of view, that's nonsense. That's not why, you know, Islam prevailed. But when I look at the current situation today, and I see the west is so much more powerful than Byzantium and the Persians were vis a vis Arabia, the West now is much more powerful vis a vis the Islamic world. And yet look at what's happening. Muslims are overrunning Europe, they're having their way. Christian churches are allowing them to come in and proclaim the Shahada. While like you said, the, you know, it's not, it's not, it's a one way sort of cultural or religious dialogue. So I'm wondering to what extent is this the punishment of God? Because, you know, centuries down the line, you know, when the world completely change, posterity will look back and this will be an even greater mystery than the original 7th century conquest. Because all they'll know is, well, we know that Europe and the west was really, really powerful and we know that Muslim world wasn't and that there were migrants, but somehow or other they took over. And it's really A mystery. So I wonder if it's the same reason given by Pseudo Methodius in the Apocalypse which is, you know, complete immorality, turning away from God, highlighted and underscored especially by sexual gender confused type of immorality.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

Raymond, where is your institute now? Where do they get you for your writings and where do they go for you particularly for your books?

[Raymond Ibrahim]

Thanks Steve. My books you can probably get. The easiest way to get them is on Amazon. Sword and Scimitar, Defenders of the West, Two Swords of Christ. There's other books I've written as well and I also have a substack. You can follow me there. It's just my name, Raymond Ibrahim. And I also have a YouTube station where you can see my talk that I gave at the at the Oxford and also the interesting question I was asked.

[Stephen K. Bannon]

No worth play. We didn't have a chance to put up the questions. We're going to put that up on our live streams. Questions were quite interesting. Look forward to having you back and particularly updates as we work through this kinetic conflict in ancient Persia. Raymond thank you so much for joining us sir. Appreciate you always.

[Doug]

Thank you. Steve,

[Stephen K. Bannon]

can't recommend those books enough. They're page turners. You feel you read novels. It's just really, really, really amazing. We're going to be back at 10:00am Eastern Daylight Time tomorrow. There's absolutely so much going on. We're trying to cover it all either on the show or during the live streams or up on Getter later. So make sure that you stay there. I can't recommend enough now taught in graduate schools at a major university in this country. The end of the Dollar Empire. This is the Patriots edition. If you feel like you need a hard copy. A lot of time and effort went in to make sure this. The graphics were fantastic and obviously the writing and the thinking we're very proud of. I think we started this when gold was 1100 bucks an ounce. Now it's near 5000. It bounces around. Remember, it's not the price, it's the process. What drives value. Once you understand the pattern recognition and you understand kind of the forces throughout the world that why gold has been a hedge for what, 5,000 years of mankind's history and now is actually a financial asset kind of a financial asset. It's been extraordinary, extraordinary journey with the Birch Gold guys. Go to birchgold.com promo code Bannon end of the dollar empire. Make sure you talk to Philip Patrick and the team. They will set you up. Okay. Short, not short. Commercial break. A long break. We'll see you tomorrow morning at 10:00am Eastern Daylight Time. We'll be back in the war room.

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