A (2:15)

I told you.

B (2:15)

First of all, I'm sorry for your loss. First of all, I'm sorry for your loss. But you never mentioned that when we were doing our little pre.

A (2:22)

As soon as you brought up my twin brother, I was like, yes, I'm dropping gems.

B (2:26)

Okay, so you had two parent household, twin brother and an older brother.

A (2:30)

Yep. Who passed away.

B (2:31)

How old was he? And how old were y'? All?

A (2:33)

He was 21 at the time. We were 18. Yeah. Well, 17. 18. Yeah.

B (2:39)

Okay. Yeah, I might circle back to that because I wanted. We might touch back on.

A (2:44)

Yeah. I'll always just say he passed away. Yeah.

B (2:47)

Okay.

A (2:48)

And just say I lost him in college and that kind of shaped my whole college.

B (2:52)

Well, that's kind of what I was gonna say was. And without getting too far ahead, how that. How did that shape you? Did you always know you wanted to play football from, like a small age?

A (3:02)

Yes and no. That came along with my father. He kept consistently coaching us in football, so we pretty much gravitated towards it. But playing basketball, he allowed us to play basketball. So it was double sports, but I was better at basketball. So if I can go back.

B (3:19)

Jafal, what the fuck? First of all, was your dad and your older brother as tall as you and your twin?

A (3:27)

No, my grandfather is like six. Six, Right. Under like six, seven Ish.

B (3:32)

Okay.

A (3:32)

And we got our height from him.

B (3:35)

Okay.

A (3:35)

Yeah.

B (3:36)

And you originally were. Why. So why. Why did you ultimately decide to stick.

A (3:40)

With football to the twin? So I. And probably like junior year, I realized, like, holy shit, like, I'm crushing this basketball thing. I had multiple scholarships from, like, Maryland, Louisville, Duke, a lot of schools that's, like, popular right now. And I made that decision, like, man, I can't leave my brother, like, if he's going to college for full scholarship football. The twin thing kicked in. I call it the twin effect. I was like, man, I'm going. I'm going to play football and be with my brother. So we both took our visits for football and we both committed to Rutgers. Yeah. Yeah. Still, we're gonna circle back on that.

B (4:15)

We need to circle back to that. You. You went to a Vo Tech school here in Delaware. And I think that that's so cool because where I grew up in Pennsylvania, there wasn't a whole lot of Vo Tech options. And I don't. The only private schools I knew of were like, religious based private schools. No. And. And maybe now that I'm an adult, I would have a different. I would know more. But what was. Why did you choose a VO Tech high school versus a private school for athletics?

A (4:45)

Yeah. That big decision was focused on football as well. Obviously my dad, mom wanted us to learn a trade because they say if high school or college never worked out, we could still fall back on the trade. I think that was just a plus. So I took up electrical. And then after sophomore year, I was like, my dad taught me everything about electrical so I'm gonna take up dental lab. Something different, but at the same time, a VO tech school. We chose Hudson because it was not known at the time. It was. All the schools was like, Middletown, Concord, Cesar Rodney at the time. And I was like, nobody knows about Hudson football. I mean, it was on the chart, but not no championships, nothing crazy. And me and my brother was like, we always like a challenge. So we went there and just took off from there.

B (5:29)

Okay, okay. So how do you think that going there shaped you academically and athletically?

A (5:36)

It set us up academically and athletically because one, the football program was known, but not as known on the chart where we put it academically to go to school and learn a trade that's. You're getting more than what you expecting. Just going to a school, learning just academics, to be able to leave high school with a trade in dental lab. I felt like, man, like, I could go get a job right now. So that made me more of a man pretty much, to know that I can go out and get a job, like, right now.

B (6:03)

Right?

A (6:03)

Yeah.

B (6:04)

And now you have kids that are student athletes, but do you ever wish that you would have did went the private school route?

A (6:12)

Yes. Now. Because now my daughter being in her private school, seeing how much she's benefiting from it, it's a college atmosphere. She looks at her homework, and when I look at homework, I'm like, holy shit.

B (6:26)

When I toured the school. So I have talked about. I haven't said the name because obviously privacy reasons, but I've talked about touring the private school and then taking the kids for a shadow. Saw your daughter there. It really is a college atmosphere, and so I could see how that could prepare you for college. And looking back, I could see why you would think that. But you played varsity football as a freshman.

A (6:48)

Yes.

B (6:49)

Did your twin brother also play varsity ball?

A (6:51)

Yes.

B (6:52)

Was there ever a time that you were with your twin brother and you were like, okay, I'm. I'm better than you, or you're better.

A (6:58)

Than me all the time. I mean, that. That's what shaped us into becoming the men we are today. And the athletes we were, we always were, always were competitive. If it was academics, if it was doing the homework, if it was just going outside, if it was definitely in high school because we had two different positions, but we both were still on offense and defense. So we always felt like our vibes and energy and competitiveness shaped the team.

B (7:22)

Okay.

A (7:23)

And that's what every level we went through. We kept that.

B (7:25)

So when you were in high School, you played receiver. What did your brother play?

A (7:28)

He played tight end and then defense end. So I was receiver in safety in college and, well, in high school.

B (7:34)

What was it like leaving basketball behind and then continuing with football?

A (7:39)

Hurtful, because the more older I got, I realized, like, man, like, I was way better at basketball.

B (7:46)

Like, was your brother also better at basketball?

A (7:49)

Yes, he was good at basketball. But me, I was more fundamentally sound. Can shoot, can dribble, can dunk, and I was only getting better and better.

B (8:00)

So when your daughter. For those listening, his daughter was a dual athlete as well. She had to pick eventually between soccer and basketball. Did you give her advice because of that?

A (8:11)

Yes, I like, still to this day, she's like, well, I'm either gonna do volleyball and basketball or soccer and basketball. I will never seclude her to just one sport. Because my dad, he and our. Once we start, we had over like 60 college scholarships. And he was like, well, we're just going to focus on football. And at the time, we didn't know what we didn't know, so he kind of protected us. But at the same time, I didn't play basketball my senior year. So I'll never forget my high school coach, Coach Sobo was like, man, you're it. Like, you. You're pretty much one of the top players in the state, if not the nation. You're like 22 something points away from your thousand points. You. You should play your senior year. And I never played.

B (8:56)

Do you regret that?

A (8:56)

Looking back 100, really now, having kids, I'm like, go for it. Shoot for the moon.

B (9:01)

Like, could you play. You could play basketball and football at the same time, right? Because they're in two different seasons, right?

A (9:06)

Yes, you can play it.

B (9:08)

So why did your dad do that?

A (9:10)

So I didn't know what I didn't know. So injury. A lot of high school kids, if they played our senior year, it was a. It is a known factor that you possibly might get hurt. And then the colleges will pull your scholarship. Okay, so you can go from a full ride to having no full scholarship. So at the time, my mom and dad didn't have the money for college. Twins at the same time. So me and my brother, we factored that in, like, wow, two scholarships. If we don't get a scholarship, how can mother and father pay for our college? So we was like thinking. We're thinking long, long term rather than short term. But yeah, if I could go back, I was. I would play both sports.

B (9:45)

Do you feel like your dad was. You said he coached you all the way up through high school. So do you feel like that helped you or hurt you or a combination of both?

A (9:54)

I always say it's the best experience ever as a parent because he shaped us into what he knew. Now, me being a parent, I took what he knew and I took all my athleticism, my academic mindset, and now I'm shaping my kids into everything.

B (10:11)

Right.

A (10:11)

So, and, and I always sit down and talk to my dad too. And I tell my mom and dad, thank you because my kids are so much well off than what I was.

B (10:19)

Right.

A (10:19)

Way ahead academically, physically. And I look at my daughter, I'm like, even my. Me and my wife had a conversation last night. I'm like, she's so talented and smart. It's because it's everything we knew and we took it and we molded into them. Yeah.

B (10:33)

How do you think growing up in a 22 parent household shaped you?

A (10:37)

Oh, the best. Because my mom, I always call her the fire. My dad is more like the ice. We had the best of both worlds.

B (10:45)

Okay.

A (10:46)

Mom and dad got a divorce when we were in college. So at the same time we were. I was already pretty much a young man grown to where it didn't affect me, but I learned so much from both of them to where that allows me to be the parent I am today.

B (10:59)

Right.

A (11:00)

Yeah. No argument is pretty much my kids are in sports. It's no drama. It's like, you know, from me, just coaching, I'm all about the fun, letting the kids develop, go through adversity on their own path, but still being a parent figure, knowing that they have you, your backing. So I just took everything from my parents and just. I love it. I love being a parent.

B (11:20)

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A (12:33)

Yeah, 100%. Only when I got older because I realized academically in sports parents had to be on me because, I mean, we grew up in Wilmington. If they weren't, I think me and my brother would have went down the wrong path. But because my mom and dad were so hard on me with just beatings, I respect that now being older because I'm like, man, I'm a good father, I'm a great husband, I'm big into the community. I love doing what I'm doing. But that's from all the younger lessons that I learned growing up. So yeah, I will commend them from everything that they taught me and just, just took off with and shaped me into who I am now.

B (13:11)

It's impressive to me because I feel like so often I read comments specifically about like, why do you put your kids in all these sports? Are you the one that's forcing them to do it? Do the kids want to do it? And I do feel like there is a fine line between like too much. But then to your point, my kids have a lot of odds stacked against them, believe it or not. I mean, they are, a lot of them are black. They also, they have broken homes, unfortunately created by myself. And you know, if they have academic struggles or they have friends that are not doing the sports and kind of getting into trouble, it's like they have all those odds stacked against them too. And so I always wonder, am I doing signing them up for too much or am I signing them up for not enough? Like what? What do you think growing up as a student athlete in a two parent home and now doing sort of the same for your kids, what is too much? Where is the line?

A (14:01)

I don't think there is no line. I think the line is outside the house. A lot of people will say the line is inside the house, but what happens inside the house, you could fall back on that. That's just like the learning curve is how, I mean, I'm Speaking ahead, because now I have a youth program. So I see the kids that are on the field or on the basketball court, and they're just sad. They're drained. They're not having fun. So now that tells me something's happening inside the household to where I'm not getting through this kid or this kid's not even interacting or having fun with other kids because whatever's happening in the household is so detrimental to their outside lifestyle. So now me growing up to answer the question is I dealt with all that in my household. Discipline, structured, even, like, just getting cussed out. A lot of people today would say verbal abuse, but at the same time, outside the house, like me now, that shaped me. I would never say there's a fine line or that was crossing the limits because I loved it. Me being now, because now I am a parent, and I took it and I shaped it up to what was negative, what was right, how my mom and dad talked to me in this moment, how they disciplined me in this moment. And now I'm being a parent. I can mold it into how I want to talk to my kids, how I want to discipline my kids, how I want to show love to my kids and be affectionate to my kids. And it just. It's propelling my kids to who they are. Now.

B (15:25)

I re. I have seen a bunch of podcasts of men specifically talking about sports and. And their own kids. And it's important to do this. And then, you know, somebody else will say, it's, Noel, you shouldn't do that. You should do this. It's like, I want my kids to try every sport, but once they find something that they love and that they're good at, I kind of want to not necessarily put all my eggs in one basket, but I kind of want to, like, take their lead on whatever they're good at. How do you help youth athletes decide? Do you think they should try everything they want to try?

A (15:54)

100 I. I tell all my parents in my youth leagues, let your kid be a kid. Like, let them fail. Let them go through adversity without you structuring them.

B (16:04)

But what if it's like, what if came home to you and was like, I want to play lacrosse. 100 and you're like, I don't know anything about lacrosse.

A (16:10)

We'll go right to Dick's Sporting Goods and get two lacrosse sticks. And I'll be like, go, let's go in the backyard. Let's go. Yeah.

B (16:15)

What if he came home and was like, I want to play tennis.

A (16:18)

Let's go. Because at the same time, your kid is going to be successful and what they want to be successful. And I learned that from my daughter, and she is the love of my life because she's my firstborn. But at the same time, she is not going to do anything she does not want to do. And maybe that's a guide. What gave me. That's why I gave me a daughter first, because that humbled me. Because I'm used to my dad saying something and then me and my brother go around and do it. And my daughter taught me. I'm used to saying something to her and she's like, nah, I'm not doing that. I don't want to do it. Or if I say, yeah, let's get the basketball, let's go down the train, we could go down there and train. But she's not given the energy that I want. So that taught me over time that she's not going to do anything she don't want to do. So me as a parent, it humbled me and molded me that whatever my kids want to do, I'm going to push them to do what they want to do.

B (17:08)

Okay. So as a parent myself of six boys, it is sometimes challenging because not all the dads are sports guys. Right? I would say, what happens when. And you have kids and then you also have your two, your basketball league and your football league for kids, what happens when you see a student or an athlete clearly is not good at either. Basketball, football, and they really, really. They want to play it, but they, they're horrible. But they're really, really good at baseball.

A (17:39)

Yes.

B (17:39)

Then what?

A (17:41)

So, I mean, I have that conversation. I always go around, talk to parents, and I'm like, what do you care? Like, and nine times out of 10, I'll get an answer that when I go sit and talk to the kid or get on me, I'm like, man, how you doing? What's your favorite sport? They might say soccer. And the parent, when I talk to a parent, might say, oh, football is the number one sport. So that tells me that's a gap. Something, something. They're not behind closed doors, either the parents are not being receptive to what their kids saying, or the kid is getting false, false knowledge. Like, oh, man, you're great at football. Like, play football. You'd be a number one draft pick. Do this. You can go out there and score six touchdowns. Just. It's a gap somewhere. And that's something that running two youth leagues, I've learned that whatever the kid is Saying the parents need to learn and know that your kid is going to be more successful. Whatever they're saying they want to play rather than you trying to guide them and push them to do what if they're not good. If they're not good at it.

B (18:37)

Like, that's. That's part of my struggle, right. Because I've talked about it on my podcast before where it's like, certain children of my own will tell me something, and I'm like, in the back of my head, it's like, you're not good at that.

A (18:51)

It's. So that's the hardest part with a parent. Like, right now, my daughter is excelling at basketball. My son is excelling at football. If they both came home and said, yeah, that we would like to play baseball, something that wasn't even in the equation, I'm fine with that. And if they. They might go to baseball and suck, get struck out, not catch a ball, but I know my kids are happy, so. So.

B (19:14)

But happy does not get you a scholarship for college.

A (19:17)

True, but that's a whole nother conversation. Because scholarships is one thing. Mental health is a whole nother thing. Not talked about. Because kids being truly happy, you look at the suicide rate, you break it down, that kid will miss the catch in the game. And mom and dad just verbally said, oh, da, da, da, da, da. Like, you're better than this, you're better than that. And that kid, mentally, deep down inside, he's like, man, I just want to play soccer. You know? So at the end of the day, he might not be as good at in soccer, but that's where it's hard at. So at one point, it's the hardest part as a parent to know when to just be a parent and let your kids go. Like, let them go.

B (19:54)

I think I find myself struggling with. I grew up very poor. Like, you're talking about food stamps. No, there was no food in the fridge at all. Food stamps are not right. Like, that's where I. That's how I grew up. So when I think of scholarships, that's sort of the mind. That's where I'm. Where it's coming from. It's like, what if I don't have the money to send my kids to college?

A (20:12)

Yes.

B (20:13)

But on the flip side of it, I do get what you're saying, but I guess more so for the parents who. They have to rely on a scholarship that's going to get their kids to college because they can't afford it. Otherwise, what do you do in a Situation like that. Like for you, for example, you and your twin, your, you said your parents couldn't put twins through college at the same time. And you were better at basketball, but you ended up with football. It's like, but you were better at basketball.

A (20:37)

Yes. So I would say parents today, if I, if I wasn't as knowledgeable as I was in sports and knowing how the colleges work and NCAA rules, I would say reach out to somebody that has done it. A lot of parents say scholarship, scholarship. I want my kids to scholarship play this sport, taking a scholarship, but don't know the parameters, the guidelines, the rules, how hard it is to get a scholarship. Rather than, I know multiple parents now and their kids are juniors or seniors and they have no scholarship. So now it's like what do we do? They have no backup plan. So I would say now parent has a kid growing up, reach out to somebody that has done it before you, has lived it, understand how the colleges game work, how scholarships work and then have that conversation with the kid. Because like I said, if that kid is playing a sport and they do not want to play it, their colleges will see what kid is in it, what kid heart is not in it. What kid is having fun, what kid is just not having fun and looking at their stands, looking at their parents every play because their parent is guiding them, their parents is pushing them rather than the kid truly embodying it and having fun with it. So reach out to somebody that. Like me. Yeah, somebody that can reach out to Jamal. Your kid is not getting a scholarship in football because no, no, no skill set, no feet work. They're not having fun. They're. They raise their hand when the coach asks who wants to take a break every time and just almost evaluation like somebody that can keep it real to say what else? What else does your kid love?

B (22:13)

But I think that what you're saying is so important and I think it only works for parents who are self aware 100 especially about their parenting. I'm not an in denial parent. I am very, I am not like I literally looked at Elijah and I said if we're going to do gymnastics with Valley, I want to do it now and I want to decide one, does she like it? And two, if she's good at it, if she doesn't like it and she's not good at it, we don't need to do it. But let's explore all the things to see. But I am not going to invest money in something and force my kid to do something that they don't want to do because that's money out of my pocket and you're miserable. So for me, when people ask me that, I'm like, it's a no brainer for me. I'm signing them up for everything. They want to play. They'll even tell me to shut up. Like not shut up, but actually they'll tell me like, mom, stop yelling. Like, I'm just so excited for them because they want to do it. But I just, I think that there's a lot going on with my kids. I absolutely loved sleeping the first night in my bowl and Branch Signature Sheets. I'm obsessed. I also have the Waffle Bed blanket and I have them over at the content house, so if you see me posting pictures, you already know where those things came from. The bowl and Branch Signature Sheet set is an iconic essential. Loved for its buttery, soft feel that gets softer with every wash and I can attest to that. But the Waffle bed blanket is my favorite and it drapes you in a soft, springy, near weightless warmth of its coveted texture. And I have it in like a greenish olive color. I'm obsessed. Together they create the softest, most breathable bedding experience and it's designed for better sleep season after season. I'm telling you, it's loved by millions of sleepers and woven by artisans with the finest 100 organic cotton at the highest level of craftsmanship. Designed for breathable sleep. So if you're like me, you can add more layers and not worry about sweating. They're made to get softer with every wash. You can still mix and match and they have over 300 color combinations to choose from. But you get to try these 30 nights worry free with their guarantee. They have a 30 night worry free guarantee and I am telling you you won't want to return them anyway. Discover a softness beyond your wildest dreams with bowen branch. Get 15 off your first order plus free shipping at bowlandbranch.com barely famous with code Barely Famous. That's bowl and Branch B O l l a n-d branch.com BarelyFamous code Barely Famous to unlock 15 off exclusions apply. Rocket Money is saving the day. I need to get back into this because I need it right now. Okay, if you have not heard of Rocket Money, I've talked about it so many times and I've sworn by it. So here I go again. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow grow your savings And I promise you, you'll need to do that. When I first built my house in 2022, I used Rocket Money to grow my savings account so that I could put in an in ground pool. And that was really exciting for my kids, for me, and it just was really all streamlined with Rocket Money, it was great. And Rocket Money has tracked subscriptions for me. When I first started with Rocket Money, they canceled eight subscriptions for me right off the bat. And I didn't even realize I was two of the same streaming services under two different emails. So that was kind of crazy. And you can do automatic transaction categorization again across all your accounts and they have customizable categories and tags so that it can tell you about your spending patterns and add context, which is really nice. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join Rocket Money.com famous that's RocketMoney.com famous RocketMoney.com famous what about the kids who. And I'm asking you specifically, for those of you who don't know, he runs a youth flag program and a youth basketball program. What do we do? When a child has a talent but no dedication, what do you do? Structure. Structure?

A (25:57)

Yeah. The structure is the biggest point.

B (25:59)

Do you think a father in the home would make a significant difference in youth athletes?

A (26:04)

100. And if one is not there? Well, 100%, yes. Because you're getting a positive reinforcement, you're getting a negative reinforcement and you have somebody to look up to to where if that father is leading by example through actions, that kid is already ahead rather than if a father is not there, then now that kid does not know what he or she does not know because there's no positive reinforcement, there's no negative reinforcement. And if there is from the mother, it's certain things that I always would say a mother can say and do and gives that feeling behind it that a father can do. And there's things that a father can say and do that a mother can say and do and it nothing but nothing there to the kid. No. No feelings. So. But you got to think of that reviving will 247 that it plays a big factor.

B (26:54)

Interesting. I've always read, oh, single moms raise athletes because of LeBron James. Right. But it gets kind of sad to think about all of the kids who are getting into trouble because their dads aren't in the home and there's so much talent on a football field or a basketball field or whatever that sport is. And I think that future generations are going to place more emphasis on keeping the family together is my hope. And what I feel like is happening. Less kids are being had and we're focusing on a family dynamic and obviously I'm part of the problem, but that's really interesting.

A (27:29)

So that would go into. I have the answer for that.

B (27:32)

Yeah, go ahead.

A (27:33)

So in our, in my youth league, a lot of the single moms stay in my youth league because it's structured, structure, outline, speed, agility. I'm the one actually hands on with the kids. I gravitate towards the kids that I can feel that they don't have no structure, no discipline, but they're getting that structure and discipline from me or my other assistant coaches and, and practices with their coaches. We have zoom calls. I have zoom calls with all my coaches. So I'm letting them know, look, focus on this kid. This kid is having problems at home. Like we got to focus on this kid. So. And all the, the parents, even single dads, single moms, they know like, man, this, like this league is structured to where they're not just giving them a football or giving basketball and running down the field or court. We're really putting, pouring into the kids. We're really pouring into the kids. So I would say if it is a single parent home out there, get them in the youth league to where it's structured. The league owner understands that as single parents out there to where it's not just giving your kid a ball, letting them run, it's structured. Your kid is getting that positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement. That way by the time they come home, it's a yes, ma'. Am. Yes, mom. Yes, sir. Yes, dad.

B (28:44)

What about the single parents who can't afford to put their kids in youth sports?

A (28:48)

Reach out sponsorships don't never just go to a youth league to where it's a money grab. Money grab is a league that costs $180, 200. And it's no practice, no speed agility, no extra training. It's just games, game days. Go to a league where I talk about mine, it's a speed agility day, it's a training day, it's a practice day with our team. And then it's a game day. Or if it is structured into one day, it's a training period, it's a practice period, and then it's a game period to where your kid is getting all the elements of all those structures and then whether the game is the ultimate icing because they could win or lose and they're going to feel that if they win, they're Going to be happy if they lose. They're going to be like, oh, man, we lost. I could have did this better. But you give them that reinforcement and go from there. So definitely put your kids in a structured league. Not just a league. That is a money grab. And you can learn that from. Just take a tour. Look at. Go to one of the game days at a league. If you see parents yelling, screaming, and it's one player on each field or each court just scoring all the points, that league is not structured. If you go to a league where it's a rotation of players getting in, a lot of kids are high five. And it's a Kona truck there that just getting water. Water ice.

B (30:07)

I loved Lux and Creed's coach this year was great. And he had his own kids on the team. And I always am hesitant about that because I'm like, are we playing favorites? Luckily enough, I've encountered most of the dads that are coaching don't really play favorites. If they do, it doesn't show, which I appreciate.

A (30:26)

But league.

B (30:26)

Was that Jamal's league?

A (30:28)

I love it. I love it.

B (30:29)

I love it.

A (30:30)

Yeah, definitely.

B (30:32)

So, going back to you. So you. You played high school sports, varsity as a freshman?

A (30:38)

Yes.

B (30:40)

What was it like, I guess, going from a high school athlete to a college athlete because you eventually ended up going to Rutgers. Was that a full ride? Did you have a scholarship?

A (30:49)

Full ride, Full scholarship.

B (30:51)

Did your brother also have a full ride? Yes. What's interesting to me about that, I have a really close friend of mine. It's the kid's cousin. Her son broke school records, state records, and he never got a full ride. He's. He had Two scholarships from UConn and Mizu. Mizu. Mizu. And I was kind of blown away when this child, he had fantastic football player, all of a sudden went track, broke records. The scholarships didn't. They were like, what the.

A (31:24)

Yeah, I always would say just guidance and direction. It's. I'll call it a window. If that's. If you're. If you have a good athlete or no good athlete between sophomore. Well, freshman year, sophomore year is for them to get eyes and get noticed around end of sophomore year and junior year is when the colleges should know about that kid. If. If they're a late bloomer after more. So at the end of their junior year, colleges should be interested. And senior year, they'll start getting offers or verbal offers to take their visits. But if they're not known or don't get no college looks by the time the end of Their junior year, that window is closed.

B (32:02)

How did you get people to look at what you and your brother were doing in high school?

A (32:07)

We knew people that went before us, so we kind of mirrored what they did. We knew we were good athletes, and my dad understood the college atmosphere, so he was like, all right, we're going. And back then, it wasn't no social media, Right? So it was more so, all right, who. What colleges came before us? In Delaware, it was like Rutgers, UConn, Maryland, Louisville, West Virginia, and then South Carolina. In North North Carolina, that was it. So at the same time, my dad was like, all right, we're gonna go to Sport Combines at the time. Nike Combines at the time. And we went to all of them. There was a lot of them at the Baltimore Ravens Stadium, a lot of them at Eagle Stadium. And we just travel, went to all the camps, and then we would go talk to college coaches. Like, you got to put yourself out there. Even if it's a parent, you got to shake hands. Oh, here's my kid, number 16, whatever. And put your kid out there. Because if you're just standing back, like, my kid will do everything. Kids don't know what they don't know. So over time, colleges coming to the school, reaching out, coming to our games, and I seen what my dad did kind of shape that whole dynamic, and it just paved the way for us. And once they seen us play, we just did the rest.

B (33:22)

You and your brother both end up going to Rutgers. What ultimately was the deciding factor? That it was like, okay, this is the right fit. And did you and him ever disagree on what college to go to?

A (33:32)

Nah. It was. I would say, that twin connection. I had a lot of basketball scholarships.

B (33:37)

Are you serious?

A (33:38)

So I had.

B (33:39)

Even not playing on your. In your senior year, you still have.

A (33:42)

Yep. Even not playing.

B (33:44)

Well, what were you thinking?

A (33:45)

Yeah. And a lot of people don't know, but it's just to this day, yeah, I wish I'd go back. I definitely, probably, possibly, and I had a great, phenomenal football career, but I always. I'll never know what could my basketball career have been? Yeah. Have been. So, yeah, we did a. What's called the. I want to say Bayberry Classic and Cesarani one year. Mike, don't quote me. And I just crushed it.

B (34:12)

Like football or basketball.

A (34:13)

Basketball. Good defense, good offense. Just a team player talking to my teammates. And then after that, it was my college coach. I mean, my high school coach, I never forget. He's like, man, did you get the mail at your house? And I was Like, Mel, he's like, yeah, Duke. It was like, a lot of Maryland. Louisville said they're interested in you after the tournament. And. And I never. My dad never said nothing.

B (34:36)

Did you ever confront him about that?

A (34:38)

I mean, like, yeah, we had a little conversation. Like, dad, why didn't you never tell me about all the offers I had? And he's like, oh, I knew you wanted to go play football.

B (34:45)

And you're like, no, I would have maybe entertained basketball.

A (34:48)

So now me and my son will watch, like, the Duke games. I'm just like, that could have been. Yeah, Daddy had an offer from Duke. My daughter and son look at him like, what? I'm like, yeah, but, I mean, I didn't know what I didn't know, but I had a phenomenal football career.

B (35:00)

Could you have pictured you and your twin ever going to the same college but playing two different sports? If he went football and you went back basketball, I mean, you were twins, so in theory, no one would have known if you would have just taken turns switching on and off. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you're like, I got the football helmet on today. I'm pretending to be Jamil.

A (35:15)

We would joke about that. I'm like, you give me your jersey and how you wear my jersey, and you go out there at linebacker. I'll go in that defense. And I would say, that would have worked. Freshman, sophomore year. By junior year, our body styles was way different.

B (35:28)

Oh, really?

A (35:28)

So, yeah. And now it got to the point where everybody could look at me and be like, oh, that's Jamal and that's Jamil. But, yeah, we joked about it a couple times, but it. Going to the same school definitely was. It shaped us because that's. We. All we want to do is stay together. I was like, man, why would I go play defense or offense somewhere else when I know you're across state or at another part playing a defense. Offense, when we could play together.

B (35:52)

But, like, you could have gone to Rutgers for basketball and he could have gone to Rutgers for football.

A (35:56)

Yes, I could have. Yeah. If I could go back, I would have tried out for the basketball team at Rutgers. But I got. So football. What's not talked about football in college is a different breed. And after the first year, because we registered our first year, if you're really in it, like, me and my brother were really in it. All our teammates know, like, don't mess with the twins. Like, they're locked in. After our sophomore year, we got locked into academics. We got locked into football. The workout room and it just. Nothing else mattered. Like no basketball, no nothing. It just didn't matter. We were so locked in.

B (36:35)

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A (38:07)

It was close to home. Me and my wife always planned to have a young kid. I wanted to be a young parent. Like to still to this day I'm like, I never forget having that conversation. I always wanted to be a young parent. I didn't want to be my 50s having a kid and just not being able to do nothing with them. So yeah, we planned that.

B (38:26)

And you're 1990, right? Am I right? Yeah, I'm 92 and I had his oldest is my oldest. They're the in both in 10th grade, right? She's in 10th grade. So I was.

A (38:38)

Well, I put it like this was unplanned, but in my head, planned.

B (38:42)

Planned. You knew what you were doing. You knew what you were doing and you Just felt like Rutgers was a good fit out of all the schools.

A (38:48)

But Duke is close to home, so Rutgers is. It was in the Big east at the time. They had Cochiano. They had Ray Rice at the time, McCourty brothers, Kenny, Britt, Hayward. And we took our visit, so that kind of shaped it because they had twins. It was all set up. But it was perfect because on our official visit, we had both of them, McCourty twins. And me and my brother were twins, so we just connected.

B (39:15)

Okay.

A (39:16)

We molded and we seen how two twins were already there, having a good time. Both captains of the team, very liked among campus, and they just were remind me of me and my brother. Yeah, they had no beef. It was just like, it was all love. And when we finished our official visit, I was like, I looked at my brother, he was like, we're going to records. I was like, yeah.

B (39:37)

So y' all were on the same page.

A (39:38)

It was the same page. Yeah.

B (39:39)

What did you, what did you major in?

A (39:41)

I would have psychology.

B (39:42)

And what did he major in?

A (39:43)

He majored in business.

B (39:44)

Oh, wow.

A (39:45)

Yeah. Business management.

B (39:46)

There are a handful of major league athletes that have siblings, right? Like the ball brothers, the Mannings, Steph Curry and Steph Curry. There's a. And there's a couple more. But what was it like having your twin on the field with you? Like, that's not just. And I, I. People are going to argue with me, but there is a different connection between twins and siblings. I don't care what anyone says. I see it every day in my own children. What was it like having your twin out on the field with you?

A (40:19)

It was the best because my brother made me into the player I was. And nobody knew that because I was quiet. In college, like my first freshman sophomore year, I was just focused on the fam. Academics wasn't that hard. And I knew I had all the. Like, once I seen the team, I knew I had all the tangibles to play, right? But when my brother, he's. He played before me, so he started traveling, and I was pretty much still just on the roster, but, like, not really playing. And I was just like, man, go crush it. So he would come home from the games, and I was just in the dorm watching on tv, and he's like, maul, I'll never forget the conversation. He was like, ma, just play mad. And I get choked up. So he was like, just play Madden. And I was like, play Madden. Like, what you mean, play, man? And he was like, look, play Madden. Like you, you run down the line If I call cover one, cover two, and I'm just like, man, like, I'm. I could really play a video game in the game. And I remember, but I was a receiver at the time, so I'm like, I'm. I'm just running routes. So then it was all, God, because he. Like, a month later, I did scout team linebacker, and my brother was on the scout team too, for that week. And then he was like, just play Madden. Just play Madden.

B (41:35)

So.

A (41:35)

And I was just crushing it that week. And my coach, Shiano, he talked to scout players, but almost like negative reinforcement, like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, da, da, da, da, da. But I never forget this conversation was like, man, like, you crushing this scout team linebacker. You really. You really want to do this? And I was like, if I'm by my brother, you're like, yeah, I'll do it. I would say fast forward, like two, three games. He was like, yeah, you're gonna be in the. In the rotation. And the guy in front of me, I forget what happened, but he was like, yeah, Ma. He was. He called me ma. He was like, ma, you're up. And I was running with the ones. And I'll never forget my brother put his hands down and I lined up a linebacker and I was like, it. I'm never going back. I'm gonna be the starter. I never. I started ever since I was about to.

B (42:22)

Okay, so I'm gonna bring that up. Before you even got to college, you were already ranked number three prospect in Delaware. So there was a lot of pressure and obviously probably your brother as well, and then got recruited tons of. Of scholarships. And then I guess after that point, you started nearly every game after that. What was that like? And what did that break through right there that you just described? What did that do for you? Like, what did that mean to you?

A (42:51)

What it meant to me was I got to play my brother. Like, that's what I would say. A lot of people never experienced it, but that twin effect kicked in. Because when my coach was like, you're going to start. And then I would see my brother right there, I'm like, if he. If. If he don't make the tackle, I'm gonna make the tackle. If I make. If I don't make the tackle, I know he's gonna make the tackle. And then once I really start playing Madden and I understood the plays, I realized whatever play my coach called, I knew what my brother was gonna do. Like, he was like, no, I'm going down. And I would just fly and it was just. It was almost, like, unreal. I'm just like, man, like, we're winning this game before we even win, like, Because I know. I know what he's gonna do. He know what I'm do. I got his back to get to the outside or cover down the receiver, and I know he's gonna have my back, so. But it started trickling down. Like, everybody on our team, we started becoming like, a brotherhood.

B (43:43)

Yeah.

A (43:44)

Like, I knew what he was gonna do because they felt like, damn, like y' all twins. Y' all on a different connection.

B (43:49)

Like, right.

A (43:49)

And then it got to the point where they made us captains, and the whole team could feel that vibe. And then the whole team had that brotherhood twin bond because we were on the team, and it just. It took off after there.

B (44:03)

Would it be safe to say that you wouldn't have had the same experience or maybe not started every game if.

A (44:08)

It wasn't for your brother? Yeah, I probably would have came home with the wife and daughter, because, you know, Rutgers is hour and a half way up the turnpike, and I came home a lot. Like, a lot of people don't know. I probably came home seven days in the week. I probably came home, like, three, four, five times.

B (44:24)

Oh, really? Did your brother also or no?

A (44:25)

Nah, he stayed. He would stay.

B (44:27)

But you had a family.

A (44:28)

Yeah, I had a family. So if my brother wasn't there, I probably wouldn't have came back. I probably was just like, go to dental lab, get a job. I got my trade, but I knew I was going back because me and him had a brotherhood. It got deeper than just, all right, I could take care of my family. With getting a college degree, my. I'm giving my wife and kids something to come watch, to know, like, oh, daddy's on tv. Dad's on espn. So it became more than just, all right, I could make something. I'm making something of this.

B (44:57)

What were the pressures that you kind of dealt with with a young family and being a college athlete? Because I think being a college athlete in and of itself is one big conversation. But then being a student and having a family, and now you're a college athlete and have a family. So what was that like? And I would imagine you received a lot of attention from women being a college athlete but also in high school. So how did you both get through that together? Because for me, I will tell anybody that listens, like, I'm. I'm going for medium ugly. I don't want my man to have any attention. Like, do not give my man, attention. I'm not dating the star athlete. I bred with the wrong ones. And you know, I'm just wondering what they, what does that do to you?

A (45:42)

Any relationship out there that can make it through college? Oh, yeah, you should marry them. You, you're golden. Because since college, we have not been through anything that we have already been through. Okay, so college shaped our relationship, shaped our marriage. It didn't shape us, but it showed us how dedicated parents we were. And it humbled me to know how much she was pouring into our kid because I was in college. Like, I'm living a college life and I'm 100% transparent wife. Like, she knew it was girls. She knew after the game. Like, babe, I'm coming home because we just won. And they showed me on espn and all these girls, they want me to go to this party. So she, I'm like, I'm on the turnpike. I'm coming home. I'm not even going home to get my back. So it shaped us in a way where we understood each other. I understood her like she understood my role in college and playing and the fortune, the theme. And I understood her just as much as my fortune and fame. She been a parent and I gave her all her flowers. Like, look, I appreciate you. I know I just was in college all week. But you were home with our daughter all week and you were working and balancing the job and being a mom. So us giving each other our flowers, it was easy. Like I married her in college. Still going strong to this day. And this we keep that same mindset, we keep that same mold to just keep each other good, just live life.

B (47:05)

Great lady, great woman.

A (47:06)

Thank you.

B (47:07)

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A (48:24)

Hit the fan.

B (48:25)

And I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, you just threw away the bag. A five or six million dollar contract that you just signed for your family, your wife. And now you're with this student. Is she, was she a student or was she just an assistant coach?

A (48:38)

An assistant. Assistant to coaching staff.

B (48:42)

So coming from someone who had a whole family in college and probably you could have had any of the women that came to you. Right. Like, how do you look at situations like that that we see in this, in, in social media now? Like what, what goes through your head when you see stuff like that? Because obviously you had the self discipline to do all the things to have the family, to go to college, to be the athlete.

A (49:01)

Yeah, transparency.

B (49:02)

I mean, yeah, but where do you get that from? Because clearly that guy doesn't have it.

A (49:09)

Yes. Well, I got my transparency from my wife because she allowed me to live and learn and make mistakes. So through, through our communication, trust me, I felt multiple times. But through those failures, she coached me through it. She told like, I, I'm, I'm that husband to where I've sat down with her and I can feel her emotion. So me feeling her emotion, I'm like, yeah, never again. I'm never. I don't want you to ever feel like that. There's nothing I want in this fame or fortune that will take me away from you. So I will give up that fame or fortune to live this lifestyle with you, our kids, and have a two family household. And that's what we did.

B (49:50)

I love that. Yeah, I, I was blown away when I saw all this stuff with the co. I don't even know his name. Sharon.

A (49:56)

Sherman.

B (49:57)

Sherman. More. Yeah, something more. I was devastated for his family because I'm like, it's never, it's never worth it. Literally never worth it.

A (50:06)

Gotta be transparent. Yeah. If you're not transparent, it'll, it'll linger. And then eventually she left it there.

B (50:13)

When you look back at high school football, basketball, college football, and being with your brother and then having your family, what are you most proud of?

A (50:24)

I'm Most proud of the good times and the bad times to say that you focusing on college?

B (50:30)

Sure. Yeah.

A (50:33)

The good times were great. Like, everything that comes with it. You're on a high mountain. You're on a high. I would say I'm grateful for the bad times, too, because in college, you hit the lows of lows. Like, it's like, in college, we had. We were on Pell Grant, so you get a financial aid, you get assistance, but eventually that runs out and you have no food. You have no. You get a meal card, but once that milk card runs out, it's like, what do we do? So it's almost like, fend for yourself. But you're on the high because you just did great in this game. You won this game. And then you go to your dorm and you're just like, I don't got no food. So at the same time, it teaches you how to get through adversity. And I'll call it the lows of loads was when I was in college, and now for me, it was 10 times worse because I'm going through this highs and lows in college, but I got my wife and kid at home. So what I mean by it taught me adversity. Like, now when I got out of college, I'm like, life is fucking easy. Like, it's nothing I could go through or nothing I went through. That is not a breeze to me. Like my wife said all the time, like, why you just make everything look so easy. Like you. And it's almost like I don't care, but I do. It's just I'm so built and structured to a point where it's. There's no fold. There's no. I'm not gonna break.

B (51:47)

It's like, okay, you already went through the hardest stuff.

A (51:49)

It is what it is. Like, let's. Let's keep it moving.

B (51:52)

That's crazy. I mean, but it's small. It's great, but it's also crazy. So after you grab. Did you graduate from Rutgers?

A (51:59)

2014.

B (52:00)

So you graduate from Rutgers in 2014 and you get a call from the Tennessee Titans. What was the biggest difference? I mean, you. You played for the Tennessee Titans, and what was the biggest difference from college ball to that first?

A (52:14)

The biggest difference was this. The draft. Like, I was just like, the draft is right time, right place, number game.

B (52:25)

What do you mean by number game?

A (52:26)

So I was what, 2. 35 running a 4. 5. Pretty much up for the buckets award for linebacker, Best linebacker in the nation compared to a lot of good Linebackers that still in the lead today and then went undrafted. So learning the whole combine, how the NFL work, the draft, you learn it right towards your end of your year or whenever you declare for the draft. So I'm learning so much. I'm training in Jersey at Test Fitness, was amazing with other college prospects that are internal draft. And then I didn't get a call to go to the combine, and I had my agent. He's like, yeah, you're like, third. You're gonna go third, fourth round as one of the top linebackers in the draft. And then I didn't get no call.

B (53:15)

But. But what is that like, when you're winning? Like, when. If you're. You're having games and championships and you're winning awards and you're. You're getting, you know, I don't know, mvp, whatever. All of these, like, accolades, and then you don't get a call. Why? First of all, why does that happen? Is it because someone better than you, or is it because they don't know about you? Is it, like, what is it?

A (53:34)

So it's. I didn't know what I know now. So now if, like, to one of your questions is, what would I say? Yeah, take it all in. Because at that time, it was a numbers game. All right? What team or were interested in linebackers? What team had linebackers on currently on the team that had injuries? What team had linebackers that had no injuries? Did they have six or seven linebackers? So. And I learned that all within five minutes, because right after the draft, I'm like, okay, I didn't get drafted. All right? My agent's like, oh, a lot of teams are interested in you. They'll give you a call. Just stand by phone. So then I got calls from, like, Patriots, Eagles, Jets, Giants, Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans. But now me and my agent are just working. He's just like, oh, well, this team has seven linebackers. This team has four. This team had an injury in linebackers. Like, you'll do well here. And then Tennessee Titans came, and I believe they had, like, two solid linebackers, and the rest were just, like, players that I knew I could beat. And I. I was like, all right, I'm going with Tennessee. And I always loved Nashville. I just Something about it. And I remember I got on a plane the next morning and went there, and it was just a reality check. I was just like, they're bringing players in left and right.

B (54:54)

What do you mean, it was a reality check?

A (54:56)

Reality check.

B (54:56)

Like, you couldn't beat some of the people you Thought you could. Or.

A (54:59)

I would say college is better and more athletic than not athletic, but college is better and more competitive than the NFL.

B (55:07)

Really?

A (55:07)

Yeah. It's no money involved. Well, when I was playing, it was no nil deals. So everybody in college, we all played.

B (55:15)

Our hearts out because you could do.

A (55:19)

We could, yeah.

B (55:19)

But in the NFL, it's not that way.

A (55:21)

It's money involved. So when I got to. When I got like, literally when I was with the Titans, sitting in a linebacker room, a guy, Avery, he got drafted third round, so he got signing bonus money. So he had like 300, 400, 000, like right there. So they're all talking about, oh, I'm gonna go to the Mercedes dealership, get a car. And then a cornerback came in. This is all my day. One cornerback came in. He got drafted second round. So he's like, yeah, I'm going too. What car are we gonna get? And I'm just sitting there like. And I. I leave my coach, I meet my linebacker coach.

B (55:54)

He's.

A (55:55)

He's like, yeah, man, you're gonna do well here. And I go in the locker room, had all my hats and shirts, and I see Taylor Lawan. He got drafted first round. And now I'm processing everything. He's like, yeah, man, you're good. He's like, yeah, we need you here. He. He recognized me from college. And he's like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, congrats, man, you got drafted first round. He's just walking around like, it's nothing, It's a breeze. And that hit me that, like, man, like, this is a business. It's a business. And meaning, like, if you are not on the right team at the right time and they need you, but they don't really need you, they can let you go and go get somebody else and use that cap space or for that money.

B (56:34)

Everyone's disposable.

A (56:35)

Everybody's disposable.

B (56:36)

And it really comes down to how much money can you make the NFL 100%.

A (56:41)

Biggest thing is having somebody just like the you side, having somebody that did it before you in your corner. Like, he knew how to draft was like, for me, I didn't know what. I didn't know. He knew what was. What could be the positives, what could be a negative. What are your options? Where you shouldn't make your options, agent wise, whatever agent says how to go about it, the feelings that come with it, you can be. Have some highs, you have some discouragement that come from it. Keep going. It don't Stop. Just because agents call, teams didn't call, or teams. If teams don't want you or do want you, keep going.

B (57:15)

So how long would you say, someone who's looking to get into the NFL, whether it's entering the, entering the draft or, or what you can walk on.

A (57:25)

It's not really a walk on. It's a free agent.

B (57:29)

How long would you say for tell someone to keep going? What do you think is the window of time to keep trying versus okay, I need to give this up.

A (57:37)

Two to three years. But within that two to three years, you're not just 100% focused on NFL from day one out of college. Whether you're in a draft or not, NFL is a backup plan. I think that mindset is transitioning now to younger athletes. And I would say elite athletes. They know NFL is a secondary. Yes, it can make you first money, but at the same time, it's a secondary option because you're just a number. It's a business. And at the same time, owners have pretty much all rights of likeliness, everything. So now you'll see a lot of college players, they're not entering a draft quickly. They're standing. They're staying in college because they can make more money. They get more nil money. So rather than when I was in college, it was like, man, like, if I can go to NFL second year dollars, I'm going the second year. I see what you're saying now.

B (58:30)

It's like, we're making money in college.

A (58:32)

Making money in college. And the NFL is not, not like checked off the list. Like, I guarantee I'm staying in college. So I will tell all athletes, NFL secondary, definitely get a career, get your degree, know what you want to do. Pretend the NFL does not exist. Know what you want to do in life. Like a backup, A backup plan? No, like a first. Like, know what you want to do.

B (58:52)

You should go to college for a skill, some sort of thing that you can build a career off of. That has to be a backup plan.

A (58:58)

Has to be.

B (58:59)

We all want to support our kids and what they want to do, but I think at this point, big age, we as parents ourselves now, we're like, okay, the NFL, the acting, the. Those sort of things have to be secondary. How do you instill that into your child? That that's probably not likely.

A (59:16)

I would say, like my daughter, she knows basketball. Secondary.

B (59:21)

Really?

A (59:22)

Yeah.

B (59:22)

100 but she's going to the WNBA like, she is. 100 I already told Alicia.

A (59:27)

Yeah. 100 yeah. She definitely has the potential, but she knows from us being a parent, from the parenting standpoint, we want the best for her if she does go to the wnba, but she knows her first primary is to do what you want to do in life, because WNBA doesn't last forever. And we are teaching her that because that's the mental side. We don't want her to put all her eggs in the basket just in the WNBA and say, adversity does come and that WNBA team release her, her. And now she's back home and like, mom and dad, what do I do? And now she's. That's when it really hits mental health. She's depressed. She's vulnerable to a lot of things, like drugs, alcohol, because she. Nobody never taught her that. You have to have other options. You have to. You had to have a backup plan. But I will say, now a lot of parents are on board. We're like, what's your backup plan? Because NFL, WNBA doesn't last forever. And I hear a lot of kids, even at a young age, they're like, oh, I want to go to NFL, but I really want to be a doctor. So I'm. I'm trying. Like, so you're gonna do both. It's two things rather than just hearing one. One, in my generation, it was like, I'm going to NFL.

B (60:35)

And that's it.

A (60:36)

That was it. And that was it. It was nothing like. It was nothing like, all right, what jobs you want to get? Where are you going to college? Where college you want to go to? You want to just play football? I wasn't like, all right, where are you going to major? Where are you going to go to college? Like, what college has the best major for that particular.

B (60:49)

Well, I noticed that when I went to Del State, all the athletes just did automatically were majoring in communications because it was the easiest, easiest, easiest major. But one, you have no plans of ever going into the communications field, so you're kind of doing a disservice to yourself because you're never going to be able to.

A (61:10)

Oh, it's a business. It's a business town. Because most of, like, they'll say, it's a good example. A lot of them take communications, but they're. They don't know what they want to do with that communication major. But if you look at the numbers, a lot of other students are in the particular field that they want to work in. So you have a lot. You. Statistically, you have a lot of college athletes that are doing a major that they know nothing they want to do with. So at the End of the day, it is a business that college is putting those athletes in the major to where they're getting a degree. But at the same time, it's just opening doors for other students that are going to do it in real life.

B (61:49)

Right, right, right, right. When you realize that your NFL career might not look like what you envisioned, what was that? What was it like going through that process?

A (61:58)

Oh, day one, day one, when I went to Titans, I got off the plane, I was like, yeah, this is the business. So what it looked like for me is go home. If that that time come. This was me sitting there in the Tennessee Titans, like meeting room. I'm like, I'm gonna go home, find my wife, talk to my daughter, figure out what I want to do at home. Because I wanted my career field to be in Delaware home state. And that's what it looked like. I had a plan. It wasn't like, I'm like, like my dad, mom taught me, like, you're not gonna blindside me. You. My dad used to say, never tie my hands behind my back. I was like, that's why I took that same approach in NFL. I was like, NFL wasn't going to tie my hands behind my back and catch me off guard. I was like, you can release me whenever. If I don't make this team, that's fine. But when I go home, I'm good because mentally I'm already prepared for it. So that's. I would say I was, I was prepared for it.

B (62:48)

Did your brother leave the NFL at the same time as you?

A (62:50)

Nah, he. When I got released from the Titans, he was still with the Bears, Chicago Bears at the time. And I'm just living through him. I'm like, hey, bro, go. Like, keep going. Push the limit. Like, I'm home, but I'm good, you know, so I definitely has. You definitely have to have somebody in corner that's understand and pushing you for your greatness.

B (63:12)

Do you feel like now looking back that you sort of kept the reins on your own power? Right? Like, I just had a conversation with someone about I left Teen mom at my own volition. Like, I chose that. I didn't wait to be released. I didn't wait till the show failed. I chose to do it on my own and there's power in that. Do you feel that way with. When you got released, you were like, okay, I'm good. I still have my plan. I still have my family. I still like, I'm meant I was mentally prepared for this.

A (63:40)

100 when I knew was I got Released, came home, and I was at my happiest.

B (63:46)

Really?

A (63:46)

Yeah. With my wife and kids. I'm like, man, I'm. Because I'm. I'm home 24 7, but I'm coming from college where I wasn't home. I was home like some weekends, some days during the week. So I was home 247 to really be with my wife when she got home from work with my daughter. So I'm like, man, I love this life. Like a different appreciation. And then I was working in my career for it at that time, and the Eagles called me and I denied it.

B (64:13)

Are you serious?

A (64:13)

I denied it.

B (64:14)

But it's close to home.

A (64:15)

Yep. I denied it because, like I said, I had that plan, like, and I. A lot. It was like two months. So two months had went by to where I was already living that home life. I'm with my wife, I see how happy my wife was. I see my daughter like, dad, Dad. I see the happiness in my family eye. So I'm like, all right, do I go reach my goal for sports or. The ultimate long term goal is to be a family man, take care of my kids and, you know, live a family life. I was there. I would say I was there. Like, I've been playing sports since I was like six years old. So six, all the way up to like that age and that remember being home and he was calling, I was like, no, I'm good. I told my agent, I was like, no, I'm good.

B (64:59)

No, but I, I think that once you are, because you, you always maintained your own power and you already were mentally prepared for that. It's very similar to me leaving the show and everything I knew. But like, once you're so far removed, even though it was only two months, you're so far out of that mindset that now there's no going back. Like, I. To this day, if someone I've been under contract for, with production for shows and stuff, it's like I can't picture let cameras in my face all the time ever again. Like, I say that I would do it and maybe I would, but like, no, like, once you're out of it, but then your brother was in the NFL so you could kind of live through him a little bit. And so I feel like there's some. I mean, that's kind of cool.

A (65:38)

Then you get to a point where it was no boxes I wanted to check off anymore. Like, I felt like I did everything in football, had build the bonds, made the game, winning tackle and touchdowns in high school and I was like, what more is there?

B (65:54)

Do you feel like now that you have kids who are athletes, that you push them harder to potentially make it to major league sports?

A (66:08)

Nah, Me, I'm the opposite.

B (66:09)

I like, you don't care if they make it to the major leagues or not.

A (66:12)

I don't care. But I'm giving them all the tools that if they do, are fortunate enough to make it to NFL or wnba. Oh, they're good. They're gonna. Then it's gonna. Their light bulbs are off. Like, holy, my mom and dad set us up for all this.

B (66:26)

Right. But imagine both your kids.

A (66:28)

I'm not drilling it. Like.

B (66:30)

Like, you're not putting all your eggs in that basket.

A (66:32)

Yeah, I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket. Like, I'm a loving fathers. We're like, we're gonna show love this day. And the next day it's like, all right, it was time to lock in. And then the next day, all right, we're having fun. We're playing. Like, the other day we was out back. Snowball. I'm like, this is not a sport day. But that took time, though, because I come from a sport background to where. But I learned that from my first child, my daughter.

B (66:51)

Right.

A (66:51)

So because I was sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports.

B (66:56)

I mean, it kept you out of trouble.

A (66:57)

Yes.

B (66:58)

So I feel like in some ways that's.

A (66:59)

That was important, but having a two family, two parent household, like, my wife's like, babe, it's not always sports. It's okay. So I. But that took time because being an athletic parent and having all my accolades, you know, like, we're young, so I see all my athleticism in my daughter, naturally. Like, I look at her and, like, you see. You see the future for your kids rather than the kids see their future. Cause they're just. Just being kids. Yeah. So. And I always tell my daughter, like. Like, now we were like, bro. I'm like, bro. I'm like, you can do it all, like. But I still want her to be a kid. Yeah. So, you know, so now I'm at that parenting phase where me and my wife, we're like, mommy and daddy still gonna let you be kids? You know, I'm letting her be a kid, but at the same time, she knows when it's a lot time to lock in, and she knows when it's time to be a kid.

B (67:48)

Yeah.

A (67:49)

I would say if she didn't have that mindset, then it would be completely different. So us as parents, I'm like, they get It.

B (67:55)

They do you have good kids? They're really good kids. How did football prepare you for life after football?

A (68:03)

I learned everything through football and being a parent while playing football at my most serious time.

B (68:11)

The, the structure and discipline of it all. The schedule, like, what about it taught you about, like prepared you for life?

A (68:22)

Definitely just schedule. Definitely waking up at like 4 or 5am you do that now? I, I'm, I'm definitely ingrained to my lifestyle.

B (68:30)

Hey, Jamal, do you think you can train me? I want to lose weight. Yeah. If you're ready to get up at 4 or 5 in the morning. No, thank you.

A (68:36)

Yep.

B (68:37)

I don't have it in me. I was not built to be an athlete.

A (68:39)

Yeah. So the structure of college, just playing sports, if you really live it ingrained in, taught me like the normal society, a regular day of living is easy. So still wake up at 4am.

B (68:55)

Do your kids also wake up at that time?

A (68:56)

No, no, I'm still letting them be kids. But it is that mental side that my kids know. I wake up at 4am every day. And then when I get off work, I'm going back in the gym to do the second. I call it two days. But they know my cycle, they're like. And now it's the norm.

B (69:11)

Yeah.

A (69:12)

So when I like, I always tell my wife, like me creating that norm of that real life visualization for my kids, they know what real work looks like. So now it limits my kids from making excuses. So to answer the question, like college structured me to know what's hard, what's easy, and what is my hard and easy and what my heart. And easy in college was nothing.

B (69:35)

Right.

A (69:35)

It was only like being away from my wife and kids. So I mean my brother talk about all the time, like, college was easy. Like all the workouts, we crushed all the games. Like when we started playing, like it was nobody. Well, I would say one person that was the best athlete I ever seen was devonte Adams. We played against him and I was like, bruh. I was like, as we. It's done, this game's over.

B (69:56)

Yeah.

A (69:57)

But besides that, being back in the real world, it's easy.

B (70:01)

Well, I think teaching you balance too, like, okay, I have a wife and a child. I'm in school, but I have, I have papers due. But I'm also an athlete. I have to be in the gym. So sort of figuring out a balance. So whether it was football or a job, whatever that looked like, you would have to have found a balance between your job and your family and sports or you Know some combination of that.

A (70:25)

I would say I have more time now in a regular life than I call it. I mean, I separate the two. College life is academics, football, and then for me was being a parent and then being a husband at the same time. So those four was a lot to juggle in college. But I got through it right through, like, child tripulation. A lot of communication. Me, Me and my wife learning as we went, but at the same time, now not having college, factoring not playing football anymore.

B (70:55)

Now it's easy.

A (70:56)

Almost like it's too easy. I'm always like, calm down.

B (70:59)

So that's why you're doing NFL flag for the youth. You're doing the sports for the youth because you're like, I need to fill my time outside.

A (71:06)

Then people are like, how are you doing all these things? But to me, I'm just like, man, this is easy. I'm not. I'm nowhere near to where. How breaking down my wife and my wife's like, bro, you gotta slow down. I'm nowhere near to where in my mind I can be.

B (71:21)

You're not at capacity.

A (71:22)

Not at capacity.

B (71:22)

I'm at capacity.

A (71:23)

I feel like I still got more. And I'll say something to my wife and she'll be like, that's her.

B (71:29)

She'll be like, do not give Kale any more ideas.

A (71:32)

No more ideas. Yeah. And now let that see, like, grow. And then eventually I'll just be like, all right, baby's that time. But. But she. She's. She knows my energy, she knows my work. I mean, to the point. I think I got ADHD sometimes.

B (71:47)

Because you might.

A (71:48)

I'm always just. I don't overthink nothing. I rather think about it and just do it and learn as I go.

B (71:55)

Yeah.

A (71:55)

And what I stay in the field where I'm. I'm barely. I know a lot, so it's sports, so. And it never failed me.

B (72:02)

Last question is, how do you define success today versus how you were defining success in high school and college?

A (72:10)

Oh, that's a big difference. Success in high school and college was just winning games, getting a trophy or getting the ring rather than now is being a good husband, being a great father to my kids, running two youth leagues, Smyrna NFL flags, Smyrna Jr. NBA. Seeing other kids that don't have the two family, two parent households pretty much don't have cleats. So for them to be in my youth leagues, seeing how they're having fun, it's a. Creating that space where it's out for them, where they can come and have fun. You see them run away from their mom and dad. It's like, gosh, I'm about to have fun. Oh, Mike, jj, What's up, Link? Giving them that out and on that I created it and seeing that it's structured, vetting all my coaches out to know that the kids are not just with any random coach that's playing daddy ball. Coaches that's going pouring to the kids, knowing that I took the time and energy to sit down. 4:00am, 3:00am, 1:00am no sleep. And structure the whole league and like. And know my family's good, my kids good. That's my success now.

B (73:16)

So it has nothing to do with financial or financial. Nothing to do with financial or playing in the NFL?

A (73:20)

Nothing.

B (73:20)

But before you're like, okay, if I get to the NFL, if I could get the check from them. Not you specifically, but people now it's like family making sure balance your work life. Balance is good. The youth, you know, programs are thriving. It's never about the finances anymore. I also feel the same 100. It's like, obviously we need to sustain, but it's really like being at peace. I feel like is the more success.

A (73:47)

Yeah, I would say growing up thinking about NFL to make millions was sustainable mentally. But now being older, I feel as though the more that I control my goals, like with the youth leagues, my job, my family, my wife and kids, making sure all that's secured and structured and it's locked down. I'm at my most happiest, like, as if I went like the same as I got the call from the Titans, like, oh, we're gonna fly to Nashville. We're gonna sign you as a free agent. Signing that contract is the same feeling I feel every day, like, all right, my wife's good, my kids good. I'm offering two youth leagues to the community that's thriving. Great. A bunch. I've. Thousands of kids already came through the league and they're having a great time. I'm good. I feel it's just the same as feeling. So that's my success now. And I'm still on the high. I think that high is. I'm. I'm loving it.

B (74:39)

Where can people find you? Where can people sign up for NFL flag? Where can people sign up for junior NBA basketball?

A (74:46)

So the website is nflflagsmyrnade.com Registration is open for football and basketball. And it's also a youth league organizer guide on there as well. Because I want a lot of youth people that have that light on the kids and the youth but don't know necessarily how to start a youth league. It's a guide on there for it.

B (75:06)

Jamal wrote a book that will be available on Amazon so make sure you check that out. The link to order will be in the description and where can people find you on social media?

A (75:13)

Social media J. Morrell 37 okay, not big social media guy but love to answer any questions, concerns. Anybody need help as far as their kid? As far as sports, anything, college, high school, I'm all for it.

B (75:25)

Awesome. Thank you for coming on Barely Famous.

A (75:27)

Thanks for having me.

B (75:36)

Sa.

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