Complicated Grief

Summary

Barely Famous Podcast – "Complicated Grief"

Host: Kail (Kaylin) Lowry
Guests: Kristen, Becky, Debbie
Date: October 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In one of her most raw and vulnerable episodes yet, Kail Lowry welcomes listeners into an unfiltered conversation about grief, reconciling with estranged family, and the messy, sometimes darkly humorous, realities of loss. This week, Kail talks candidly about the death of her father—whom she barely knew until recently—and unpacks the emotional whirlwind of reconnecting with him shortly before his passing, along with the complicated aftermath. Joined by friends Kristen (the self-titled “founder of the Dead Dads Club”), Becky, and Debbie, the group delves into estrangement, parental relationships, regret, and the unique ways we process loss.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening & Context: The Dead Dads Club

• Kail introduces the episode with humor and honesty, referring to her entry into the "Dead Dads Club."
  • [00:06] Kailin: "This episode is an introduction for me into the Dead Dads Club."
• Kristen acknowledges the bittersweet welcome.
  • [00:22] Kristen: "Unfortunately, we're glad to have you."
• The group sets a candid, sometimes irreverent tone for the discussion of grief.

2. Starting with Humor: The Pee Story

• Kail lightens the mood by recounting a chaotic pee incident with her sons after soccer practice.
  • [01:45] Kailin: "Only this would happen to us. We just laughed all 30 minutes home."
  • [02:38] Kristen, joking: "I would have crashed the car because I've been laughing so hard."
• The story punctuates the group’s ability to find levity amid heavy circumstances.

3. Processing Her Father's Death

• Kail received the call about her father's death just four days prior.
  • [03:25] Kaylin: "Today's Thursday. Dad died Monday."
• The complicated logistics of his passing are discussed—travel, lack of funeral funds, his status as a Marine, and uncertain funeral arrangements.
• The group acknowledges the different ways members come to join the Dead Dads Club.
  • [07:11] Kristen: "Everyone's circumstances...are vastly different. It's just one thing that makes us all kind of united."

4. Estrangement, Reconnection, and What Ifs

• Kail details her recent, second-ever meeting with her father, only two weeks before his death. She had mixed feelings—anger, curiosity, and some unexpected peace.
  • [05:20] Kailin: “I’ m still processing everything that occurred when I was in Waco to go see him... I thought that I was gonna have one more visit in me.”
• She reflects on 30 years of feeling betrayed before learning her father had tried to stay in her life.
  • [05:52] Kailin: “...he doesn't know how much peace that visit gave me. And I wanted to tell him.”
• Kristen encourages others in similar situations to reach out if they feel compelled—"If you’re even contemplating it, you should just go do it." [08:06]

5. Difficult Family History

• Kail candidly discusses estrangement from her mother, noting that her father’s death did not change her desire for reconciliation with her mom. Instead, she's more interested in confronting her with new information.
  • [09:47] Kaylin: “It has not changed how I feel about my mom dying. It has not made me want to go reconnect for her, reconnect with her for peace..."

6. Who Was Her Dad? Grappling with His Story

• The group explores the man behind the label "dad." Kail learned he had two Associate’s degrees, served in the military, lived in extreme poverty, but never “wanted more” for himself.
  • [16:01] Kaylin: "He never wanted better for himself...what an interesting person."
• She questions whether he was capable of deep relationships or even feeling love.
  • [17:08] Kaylin: "I'm not saying that to bash him. I'm just saying, like, these are things that I have thought over the last couple of weeks..."

7. "Deathbed Questions": Seeking Closure

• Kail shares the "deathbed questions" she prepared for her father—blunt questions about abandonment, court orders, childhood memories, and regrets.
  • [28:38] Kaylin lists questions: "Why did you leave? When did you leave and why? Did you ever try to call? What did Susie do?...Did you ever send money or gifts?..."
• Her father answered most directly and without regret.
  • [14:12] Kaylin: “I asked my dad if he had any regrets and he said no. And at first it hurt my feelings until I sat with it for the past two weeks.”

8. The Complexity of Parental Blame

• Kail discovers through family accounts that her father's absence was legally enforced—he tried to stay in her life but was kept away by court order after a complicated custody battle.
  • [53:17] Kaylin: “He had no money to the point that he was driving from Texas to Pennsylvania...he was there for the first [court dates]...But it was that final court order...there wasn’t a shot.”

9. Processing Grief After Estrangement

• Kail describes her confusion about feeling emotional over the loss of a parent she barely knew.
  • [45:22] Kaylin: "Mostly fine. It's weird because it's like my dad died, but what does that mean? Nobody knows me to have a dad, so it's like a weird...like, am I even allowed to cry about it?"
• Kristen offers validation: “You’re allowed to feel however you want to feel.” [45:39]

10. The Experience of Reconnecting with Her Sister

• Kail voices fears that, with their father gone, she and her half-sister may lose their new bond.
  • [64:04] Kaylin: “The only what-if that I'm most concerned about...is what if my sister and I don’t have a relationship anymore because the one person that brought us...is gone.”

11. Dark Humor and the Dead Dads Club

• The group uses gallows humor about urn shopping, ashes, and funeral business.
  • [62:13] Kaylin: "They have four packs...You have to decide what fudging color urn you want, and it's weird. And you can buy them on Amazon."
• Kristen explains, "As soon as your dad dies, you can join the sick humor, right? Like, oh, I got jokes for days. I'm as cold as my dad is." [61:02]

12. Understanding Grief

• Kristen shares a helpful metaphor:
  • [75:51] Kristen: "Grief is like a ball in a box. Right now, the box is very small, so the ball is constantly hitting all sides...When you're longer out, you get a bigger box, but the ball is still there and it slams...at the most unexpected moments."
• Kail names her grief as less about losing a relationship and more about mourning "what could have been."
  • [76:32] Kaylin: "For me, it was like, I can't miss my dad because I never had him. I can miss what I never have because I'm more so grieving the loss of what I could have had..."

13. Closure, Regret & Moving Forward

• Kail wishes she could have told her father she wasn’t mad any longer and finds some closure in her final visit.
  • [77:01] Kaylin: "When I left my dad, I said, I don't know if I'll ever see you again...I’m glad we did this. He was glad we did this...I'm not mad anymore."
• She expresses relief at having asked all her questions, facing trolls who criticized her timing or motives.
  • [78:32] Kaylin: “No, I don’t have any questions for him that he could have answered for me. I asked literally everything I could think of and he welcomed that too.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On confronting anger and closure:
  • "[My dad] said that I was still...looked mad...And I said, well, I don't want to be mad, right? Like, I don't want to be angry." (05:20)
• On rethinking blame:
  • "All of my feelings were so misplaced, and I don't know what to do with them now..." (46:08)
• Kristen’s “ball in a box” grief analogy:
  • "Grief is like a ball in a box...when you're longer out, the box gets bigger. But the ball is still there..." (75:51)
• On dark humor in the grief process:
  • "As soon as your dad dies, you can join the sick humor, right? Like, oh, I got jokes for days. I'm as cold as my dad is." (61:02)
• On the difference between estrangement and death:
  • "I would rather be crying about that than crying that I never went in the first place." (18:51)
• On parental relationships and empathy:
  • "I will go to the ends of the earth to make sure that my kids have relationships with their siblings. So it just, like, sort of amplifies those feelings that I've had." (44:50)
• On her father's matter-of-fact personality:
  • "I want to live my life, the rest of my life with that level of I don't give a fuck. This is what it is. Take it or leave it." (51:12)
• On what she would have told her father:
  • "Thank you for making time for my sister and I...it brought me peace that I didn't expect...I'm not mad anymore." (77:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:06 – Kail introduces the "Dead Dads Club" theme
• 01:14 – 02:50 – Pee bottle incident provides comic relief
• 03:25 – The call about her dad’s death, immediate aftermath
• 05:20 – 09:00 – Reflections on recent reconnection and lingering anger
• 14:12 – 17:22 – Kail’s “deathbed questions” and exploring her dad’s emotional world
• 28:38 – 35:37 – Detailed recount of her questioning and discovering family truths
• 45:22 – 47:27 – Discussing how to process grief for a parent you barely knew
• 61:02 – 64:55 – Gallows humor and fear of losing the new connection with her sister
• 75:51 – "Ball in a box" grief metaphor & final thoughts
• 77:01 – What Kail wishes she could have said for closure/takeaways

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Grief following estrangement is complex and seldom follows an expected pattern.
• It’s never too late to seek answers—even if closure is imperfect.
• Reaching out (even or especially when it’s uncomfortable) may bring unexpected peace.
• Dark humor and support from those with similar experiences can help make pain more bearable.
• Regret sometimes fades when understanding grows—and healing might come from acknowledging “what could have been” as much as “what was.”

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For anyone dealing with complicated grief or estranged family, this episode of Barely Famous offers an honest, at times uncomfortably real, but ultimately hopeful look at loss, connection, and the power of confronting the past in search of closure.

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(End of summary)

Transcript

[Kaylin]

Welcome to the show.

[Becky]

Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain K, and you're.

[Kaylin]

Listening to Barely Famous. This episode is an introduction for me into the dead dads club.

[Kristen]

Unfortunately, we're glad to have you.

[Kaylin]

Unfortunately, regret that is an an entire branding campaign. Unfortunately, we're glad to have you. Unfortunately, we're happy you're here.

[Kristen]

Unfortunately, extremely unfortunately.

[Kaylin]

Before I talk to you guys about how I found out my dad died the entire enchilada, I want to start this episode off on a positive note. And it is with a peace story that occurred last night.

[Kristen]

Oh, is this why I never got a call?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

Okay, so.

[Kaylin]

So we were at soccer practice with Lincoln, and on the way home, we have to take a highway. And it's not just like a regular highway. It's a highway that has no exits for the bathroom. It's a highway that there is hardly a shoulder. So I. I want to preface it by saying there is no shoulder for me to pull over and let my son go pee.

[Kristen]

Great. Okay, great.

[Kaylin]

So Creed's like, mom, I have to pee so bad. And I'm like, can you hold it until I can find an exit? No, I cannot. Great. Pee in this water bottle. Okay. He's five, so he doesn't understand when I say, put your entire hang dang in the bottle.

[Kristen]

Yep.

[Becky]

So he has it on the.

[Kaylin]

The brim on the tip.

[Kristen]

Okay.

[Kaylin]

Okay. And he's in the back seat.

[Kristen]

So in a moving vehicle, not standing up.

[Debbie]

Right.

[Kristen]

Because we can't pull over.

[Kaylin]

So he. There's several odds stacked against him at this point.

[Kristen]

Every single one.

[Kaylin]

But he was in such a good mood already. Like, we had been laughing for, like, the entire evening because he was just, like, in a really good mood. It was just a. So he starts peeing, and he starts panicking, I'm assuming, because things are going places. It's. He's. It's about to slip out of said bottle, and it just sprays into the front seat all over my nav. Lincoln looks behind his shoulder like, what the fuck just hit me? Only to find out it was his little brother's piss. So I'm, like, trying to reach into the glove box while I'm driving to try to, like, wipe said pee off. And then Creed starts to cry because he thinks he's going to get in trouble. And I'm laughing, and he's like, why are you laughing? And I'm like, because only this would happen to us. Yes. And so he was like, I thought you were gonna yell at Me, I'm like, no, Creed, you can't help it if you have to pee and you can't hold it. Like, you literally can't help it. So he. We laughed. We just laughed all 30 minutes home.

[Kristen]

I would have crashed the car because I've been laughing so hard.

[Kaylin]

It was all over the navigation system. I didn't need it, thankfully. And then I, like, didn't want to touch it because now it's pee. And so that was the eventful car ride home from soccer practice the other night.

[Debbie]

I'm just wondering.

[Kristen]

It was Lincoln. Okay.

[Kaylin]

Lincoln was just like, this is another day in paradise. Like, this is just regular for him. He never knows what's going to go on, so. But he's prepared for anything to happen.

[Kristen]

If we attempted to play. Never have I ever. With your children. I don't know who would be out.

[Kaylin]

First, because it's all.

[Kristen]

Everything has happened to every single child.

[Kaylin]

Yes, 1,000%. So I am so glad that we could start Dead Dad's Club episode off on a good note. The bad news is that my dad's dead. So that's where we're at.

[Kristen]

Very fresh for you.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

Today's Thursday. Dad died Monday.

[Debbie]

Yes.

[Kaylin]

So it's been a cool four days. And we were in Salem Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. We're getting ready to leave the hotel, and I'm. Elliot's in the shower, so I'm like, all right, me and Lincoln will go get everything packed up in the car, return the rental car, go to the airport. While we're packing up the car, Elliot will come down. Elliot's not down yet. Becky is helping me get some stuff together. And my aunt calls, and I'm like, all right, let me. Let me answer. Because she. She doesn't really call me. She'll text me. So she calls me, I answer. And I. I don't think she even said, like, good morning or anything. It was. Your dad passed away. So he passed away that morning. And I'm thankful for. This is gonna sound so up, but, like, I'm thankful that he didn't pass away sooner because it would have ruined our entire trip. And my kids don't have any sort of attachment or they don't know him. They've never met him, not even one time. So it would have really just put a damper on the whole trip for them. And I was really looking forward to spending time with just the two oldest kids. So I have to get out of the car, and I'm just pacing because I'm like, I have not Even left the parking lot of this hotel before. And then I call you because I'm like, I don't really know where. I'm like, what am I supposed. I don't know. And my aunt saying she doesn't have the money for a funeral and whatever. And I don't think he's having a funeral, but he was a Marine, so maybe the Marines, like, maybe the military can help. And so it's just like a bunch of moving parts so quickly. It was exactly two Mondays after I saw him, met him exactly two Mondays. So I saw him on the. September 15th, and he died on the 29th, which.

[Kristen]

That was the second time that you would ever met in your entire life. So that comes. You're not even over that.

[Kaylin]

Yeah, I. I'm still processing everything that occurred when I was in Waco to go see him, because I know that I, I was going back and forth about even seeing him and stuff like that. And then the day that I went to go talk to him with my sister, my aunt, I was driving there with like the you mentality, get to the door. And then I cry for the entire two hour visit. And so I, by the end of it, I know that he said that I was still. That I still looked mad. Like, at the end of the visit, that's what he said. He's like, you still look mad. Michaela doesn't look mad, but you look mad. And I said, well, I don't want to be mad, right? Like, I don't want to be angry. But you have to think about this is 30 years of what I thought was a betrayal. Or I thought, like, you didn't care about me and just to learn that you tried, it's like it's going to take some time for me to process this and really, like, I don't know, I guess come to terms with it. But that being said, I thought that I was gonna have one more visit in me. Like, I thought I in him. Like, I thought I would go down one more time by the end of the year. So I softened up enough to think about, okay, I might go down one more time before he passes. So it was like. And I never got a chance in those two weeks. He also told me to add him on Facebook to take him off block. So I did and I added him and he didn't, he didn't add me back. So that request is just sitting there now. I didn't get a chance in those two weeks because I was still processing and still am processing like, how I feel about Everything. And so he doesn't know how much peace that visit gave me. And I wanted to tell him. I thought I was going to have a chance to tell him before he died.

[Kristen]

I can't imagine how that feels to. To be in your shoes.

[Debbie]

Yes.

[Kristen]

Like something that I say to everybody that like, comes to me because I've had a dead dad for a long time. It's been 13 years.

[Kaylin]

You're the founder of the Dead Dads Club.

[Kristen]

So I've had. He's been gone for a long time. And people will come and they'll be like, oh, well, you have experienced it, like asking for advice. And I am a big believer that everyone's circumstances that led them to being in the Dead Dad's club are vastly different. It was just one thing that makes us all kind of united. But even that one thing is very different. Some people have dads like mine that drop dead. Some of them have long battles with health issues, like Becky. Some of them had estrangement, never speak before they pass away. Some of them recently reconnected like you. So I. I commend you for wanting to talk about it this fresh because I think that you're gonna help somebody. I hope so, big time. Especially someone who might be considering reaching out and maybe they have a parent or doesn't even have to be a parent. Anybody in their life, friend, family member, something that they're not as connected with as they want to be.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

For whatever the reasons are.

[Kaylin]

If you're contemplating going to talk to someone that you're estranged from or you feel like is you're disconnected from, whether it's a family member or a friend, like if you're even contemplating it, you should just go do it for the simple fact that like, you're contemplating it in the first place.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

My. From the time that I went to go see my dad, I think it was on the 5th, September 15th, to the day that he died. Exactly two Mondays. I don't know if I got the dates correct. When I was speaking before he was moved from his trailer to a facility, like a full time care facility. So when my aunt called me, I want to say it was the 29th. I think it was the 29th. Was that Monday that he passed away? He died in the morning in his sleep. So I think he went mostly peacefully. And when he, when we left, he did say that he didn't think he'd ever see my sister and I in the same room. So it was sort of comforting to know that like he.

[Kristen]

You guys gave that to him.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

I think that what you said in the beginning about how you thought you had another. Another time that you would be able to go and, and talk to him and you wanted him to know how much peace that conversation brought you. You know, I'm not a religious person.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

I don't, like, everybody can believe in what they believe, but I. I do think that they. I believe in a sense of knowing things. Like, I don't know how people know things, but I bet you I think that he probably knew and I think that it put him at so much peace that maybe that's why he was able to pass peacefully.

[Kaylin]

I hope it was peacefully. I hope he didn't, like, suffer. You know, it's crazy, though, because, like, in all of this, because it's only been two and a half weeks at this point for me since I saw him.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

It has not changed how I feel about my mom dying. It has not made me want to go reconnect for her, reconnect with her for peace or, like, I want to go cuss her out. And I don't think that will ever. Like, I don't think that I would have the same revelations or like the same. I don't even know what to call it.

[Kristen]

Like, this didn't emotionally impact you to the point of changing your mind about my mom, about your feelings towards your mom and if, if she were to pass and the feelings that. Deep rooted feelings that have now just grown.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

With what you learned.

[Kaylin]

Yes. And so I think that it's kind of interesting because I'm like, on one hand, I'm telling people if they have that feeling to go reconnect with someone, like, go do it. But I don't have that for my mom. It doesn't make me contemplate. It doesn't make me want to change my mind. The only thing that I would want to go talk to her about is sort of like, confront her with the information that my dad left me. And I believe him.

[Becky]

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[Debbie]

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[Becky]

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[Kristen]

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[Kaylin]

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[Kaylin]

No purchase necessary. See [e-mail] for full details and [e-mail] to play without purchase ends November 23, but bonus plans November 2. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro. Copyright McDonald's. There's nothing that my mom could ever say or do. I don't think that could change my mind because my dad was so nonchalant about everything and nonchalant in the sense that like, I guess like he just didn't have. He takes everything at face value. It just it like when people say oh it is what it is. They say it like passive aggressively or they say like, oh, I don't care, but they actually care. My dad did not give a single, like, this is what it is and that is it. No pity party. My dad did not throw himself a pity party. He did not just try to justify anything. It's like very cut and dry. Matter of fact, this is what happened where my mom will have like this, like, well and then justify or well, and then it's like a pity party. And you don't know how hard it was for me though, where, where my dad is like, this is what it.

[Kristen]

Is or this is what happened. It's. There's no embellishment, no behind it. There's no emotion. None behind it. It's fact based.

[Becky]

Yes.

[Kaylin]

And so when he. At first it hurt my feelings when I asked him and there's a video that is either going to be up on Patreon now or it will be. I asked my dad if he had any regrets and he said no. And at first it hurt my feelings until I like sat with it for the past two weeks. I'm like, okay, he. What is he. What is there to regret?

[Kristen]

I almost feel like you have to be able to put thought into something and know opposite side to be able to have regrets about something. Like, I almost feel like he really had come to terms with whatever the, the lack of relationship with you wherever the relationship ended with your sister and he just moved on because he didn't know any different. It's not like he was. You were in and out of his life. Right. It's like he came and then left and then came and then left and then came. So I almost wonder if for him the regrets would have come after that visit of what could have been.

[Kaylin]

No, I don't think so.

[Kristen]

Okay.

[Kaylin]

I think that he was a very interesting person because I later learned, and by later I mean yesterday learned that he had two associate's degrees in what Associates of science and then something in hospitality and golf course management or something. And so that was really interesting for me because seeing how he lived and then my aunt also telling me like he lived without what most people take for granted on a day to day basis. And I'm talking like middle class, lower class. What they. What middle and lower class takes for granted every single day. My dad lived without it. So he was like poverty and below and was fine. You had two associate's degrees and you were in the military. You lived in the Philippines, Alaska, Hawaii, all these places. He never wanted better for himself. Like, he never. Like, you had the means for it. You use the GI Bill for two associate's degrees or whatever the hell you. However you got those degrees and then you did nothing. Like, what an interesting person.

[Kristen]

I feel like you gotta go on a journey to like, kind of not really uncover because it's very surface level, it seems. But like, I would have never. Just from watching the footage you took and the conversation you guys had, I would have never thought he even wanted to go to college.

[Kaylin]

Well, here's my first thought was two associates, two associate's degree, but not a bachelor's degree. Never did anything with either of them or use the knowledge. He also could have stayed in the military longer to just live a little better than what he was like. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it was almost like, do you.

[Kristen]

Think he just lacked passion in life?

[Kaylin]

I think the dis, the birth, I keep calling it a defect. It's not a birth defect. Like the birth injury. I think basically him.

[Kristen]

Okay.

[Kaylin]

Like, there was no outside of, like, what is right here and what I'm telling you, I'm speaking to you. In fact, I'm speaking to you cut and dry. There was nothing else there. Yeah, like. And when I asked him, did you love our moms? Yeah. I don't know that he was capable.

[Kristen]

Like, does. Even knowing what love is or feels like or.

[Kaylin]

Yeah, like, it's. And I'm not saying that to bash him. I'm just saying, like, I, I. These are the things that I have thought over the last couple, like, two weeks. And then to learn that he had two bachelor or two associates. I'm just like. So he didn't have to live the way that he was living.

[Kristen]

No, it was a choice.

[Kaylin]

Like, you let yourself go to that point, developed no relationships with anyone, really. He was with the woman that he lived with for 25 years. I thought it was his wife, but I guess maybe common law wife, but it wasn't his wife. Together for 25 years, but it felt like more companionship. Yeah.

[Kristen]

Just like to have somebody there.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

Not like there was like a.

[Kaylin]

And I don't want to speak ill of her. That's not what I'm saying. Yeah, I don't know that. I don't know that he was capable of deep friendships or deep relationships of any kind. Not just with me or my emotional ties, just with anything.

[Kristen]

Yeah, there's no emotional aspect. It sounds like.

[Kaylin]

Yeah, like, I cannot describe this man thoroughly enough for someone to understand unless you were there. Like, there was Nothing here, lights on, no one's home. Yeah, but that's how it was when I met him the first time when I was 17.

[Kristen]

I. I was going to ask you, like, comparing. Obviously, you didn't have a lot of time with him when you were 17.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

Went and whatever. But was there anything different?

[Kaylin]

No, very. Matter of fact. Very. This is how it goes. But, like, I know that now, looking back when I met him when I was 17 and all of, like, that whole thing. And then also this. It's like, this is just who he was. Yeah. And that's okay. But I didn't get to. I think that's what I'm. But I would rather be crying about that than crying that I never went in the first place.

[Kristen]

Yes. Like, I'm very glad that you went. I know you were trying to not go very hard.

[Kaylin]

Well, what's crazy, too, is, like, the way that it all played out when I was going down there. So my aunt called me on a Friday, and you and Rebecca had blocked off. Not the. Not that. So the Friday my aunt called me. We didn't block off this week. We blocked off the following week to go. And so I wasn't even supposed to go when I went. When my aunt said that there was. It was morphine every four hours, which turned out to not even be true. What it turned out to not. It turned out to not be true. He was not getting morphine every four hours. So then when I talked to my aunt after the fact, when I got home from the visit, she was like, yeah, I thought it was premature that you were coming down.

[Kristen]

You're like, but you told me it was morphine every four hours.

[Kaylin]

He was literally in the car. Like, my kids, we were coming home from school pickup. And she literally told me, like, you need to get down here sooner rather than later. So I did.

[Kristen]

Which great that you did.

[Kaylin]

But it was just like, she. We all thought he had more time because I get down there. He went. Got up and went to the bathroom by himself.

[Kristen]

I remember seeing that in the footage where you were, like, waiting for him to come back out.

[Kaylin]

He got up and he was. I mean, he was a little winded when he was talking, but it seemed like he was not okay. But he wasn't on his deathbed. And I'm out here, like, literally wrote deathbed questions, and I still can't get over all the people who are, like, crucifying me on the Internet for, like, confronting my dad on his deathbed while he's, like, going through hospice. But like, when was a better time? I guess, like, while he was a lot. Like, I don't know.

[Kristen]

Nobody can judge a situation they're not in.

[Kaylin]

Like, that's. I could not have. I. First of all, I'm somebody who performs well under pressure. That's the first and foremost.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

So if someone's like, your dad is dying, it's like, oh, let me get my together really quick and go try to handle this business. Yeah. I also, until I learned that he was dying and had very little time to live, I didn't think I was ever gonna confront him. I truly never thought I would ever go talk to him or my mom ever again.

[Kristen]

I've. In the over a decade. I mean, literally, Lincoln's about to be 13.

[Kaylin]

12.

[Kristen]

12.

[Kaylin]

So you've known. I've known you literally 13 years.

[Kristen]

Yeah. Because you were pregnant. Never one time did you say, we've talked about the visit that you did. We've joked around about the meat fridge and all the things. Never one time are you like, I'm going to go back down. I'm going to talk to him. I want to talk to him. You've said that about your mom off and on, about confronting her and wanting to sit down with her and ask her questions and things, which made sense to me because you are a mother.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

So I think that you relate on not just, like, it's not just a daughter talking to her mother, it's mother to mother.

[Kaylin]

Yep. Yep.

[Kristen]

So that always made sense to me, but never were. Did I ever hear you say that you were even interested because you.

[Kaylin]

It just wasn't ever going to be something that I wanted. I never. I never pictured myself doing it. So then once my aunt called me and said that he was sick, it sort of just changed my mind about everything. So the people who are saying, like, I. And I've said it on every podcast, I think, like, these two specific creators have made the same video over and over, same situation. Like, oh, like, I think one of them called me Garbage Pail Kale and was like, she's going to confront her dad. It's so selfish. Like, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what was the alternative? Go talk to him when he's alive. But it doesn't feel like there's anything I have to say until I'm in that situation.

[Kristen]

Well, I hope people get. When they watch the patreon of your visit. It wasn't like saying, you're confronting. First of all, I don't know what the negative connotation is behind I'm confronting a situation or a person. That doesn't mean you're gonna go start a whole fight. You're just. I'm not having a confrontation. I'm confronting them with questions that I need answers to, facts, whatever. You're trying to figure out a situation. I'm not going there to. You're not going there to fight with him.

[Kaylin]

So I think people have held on to, like, who I used to be, like, very emotionally charged all the time.

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

And I said that to my dad. I've struggled my whole life with being angry. Like, I've just been mad my whole entire life, and I don't want to be mad. I don't want to feel this way. And I walked into it, and I went back and forth on whether I was going to ask him questions or not. Like, I had them just in case. But then I. At some point, I was like, I'm not going to ask him, because then I felt bad. Then when I got there, I was. I didn't know what to say. So then I was like, I have questions for you. And he was like, okay, ask him. Like, it was almost like he was expecting that. Anyway, he hadn't seen Michaela since she was 5 or 6. So I was kind of asking questions on her behalf. She didn't have any questions. She was more detached from the whole thing. And I think she wanted to meet him, but she didn't necessarily have anything to say to him. And so these are the questions that I asked. This is a note that I wrote in my phone. September 10th. I finally, like, put them in my phone, and it literally says deathbed questions. But he wasn't even in a bed, so he was literally in a chair. But I said, why did you leave? When did you. When did you leave? And why? I was stern about my questions at first.

[Kristen]

To me, when I saw how you asked them, your instant thing was I was a. Yeah.

[Kaylin]

When I saw myself.

[Kristen]

Kept saying that to me.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

And I'm like, this is literally how you speak when you are feeling something towards something. I said to you, like, when you're passionate towards something. Not exactly the word, but, like, when you're passionate.

[Debbie]

Yes.

[Kristen]

But when you're having any type of emotional reaction, that is how you speak. I don't. I don't. I don't identify it as you being a. To me, that's just when I know you actually give a. About what you're talking about.

[Kaylin]

Okay.

[Kristen]

Does that make sense?

[Kaylin]

When you said, that's how I am on the podcast? I was like, yeah.

[Kristen]

So sometimes when you get really, like, worked up, not really worked up, but when you are invested in something. Okay, that is how you speak. So to me I'm like, what the are you talking about?

[Kaylin]

Well, it threw me for a loop when I looked at, I watched the footage back and I'm like, I'm a huge. See you next Tuesday. Like, I'm a huge. I really do need to watch how I my tone, because I don't mean anything by it.

[Kristen]

Tone is hard though. We've had those conversations with each other. Tone is hard, right? Like you could be in the middle of doing something, answer a question, you're not even paying attention to the way you're saying something. And somebody walks away from that thinking you're pissed at them or you hate them or something and you're, you have no idea unless you're confronted about it. Weird word.

[Kaylin]

Weird word.

[Becky]

All right, y', all, we've all been there. Eating clean, taking your supplements, doing everything. Quote unquote, right?

[Kaylin]

But your gut still feels off, your.

[Becky]

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[Debbie]

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[Becky]

For a limited time, my listeners get 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboy colostrum.com and use code famous at checkout. That's 25% off and use code famous@cowboy colostrum.com after you purchase. They'll ask where you heard about them. Please support my show and tell them that I Sent you. Okay, let's talk about Haya really quickly. The twins are about to be two years old so they're about to start Haya Vitamins. And they're already so excited because we.

[Kaylin]

Got their little glass jars in the.

[Becky]

Mail and they want to use the stickers and so typical. Children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise. They're filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy junk that.

[Kaylin]

Kids should not have.

[Becky]

And Haya is changing all of that. Haya fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diets to provide the full body nourishment our kids need to grow. And it's formulated with the help of nutritional experts. Haya is pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies, then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals including vitamin D, B12C, zinc, folate and so many others to help support immunity, energy, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones and more.

[Debbie]

My nephew is obsessed with his hyavitamins.

[Kristen]

My sister in law has had them.

[Debbie]

On them for a couple of years now and I tasted these, they literally taste like candy. Now I know why he is so obsessed. Hya vitamins are non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gelatin free, nut free and everything else you can imagine which is fantastic. Haya is designed for kids to and up and sent straight to your door so parents have one less thing to worry about. I also recommend checking out their new kids probiotic and nighttime essentials. My sister in law started my nephew on these a couple months ago and they're having a great experience. Experience.

[Becky]

We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50 off your first order. But to claim this deal you have to go to hayahealth.com famous this deal is not available on their regular website. So go to H I D Y-A H E-A-L-T-Com FAMOUS and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[Kaylin]

So I said when did you leave? Why? When did you decide that you were not going back to Pennsylvania? Did you ever try to call? What did Susie do? You knew my mom struggled with alcohol and addiction. How could you leave me with her? Which I later found out that it was court ordered after he tried to kidnap me. He did kidnap me and took me to the hospital once. I guess the way and I don't until I see the paperwork which I'm going to do I want to go to Honesdale, Pennsylvania, and I want to request records from the court. I want to know exactly what is in those court records. So that's what I'm going to do next. So I said, you knew, like, how could you leave me with her? From my understanding, when my dad took me from Pennsylvania without my mom knowing and took me to Texas, I guess the like CPS Children and Youth whatever program is in Texas at that time approved my aunt to raise me on behalf of my dad. So she was approved to have custody of me. But my mom came from Pennsylvania with a court order from a judge that said that he had to stay the away from me. Why? Because state lines, I think because it was basically like a kidnapping.

[Kristen]

But why do you think she did that?

[Kaylin]

She just simply didn't like him. My dad did not abuse my mom. My dad did not have an addiction. My dad was not an alcoholic. And then I learned that when my, my mom was saying, oh, he couldn't keep a job, he was a bum. It was because in the 90s, I guess in the 80s and the 90s, with construction and blue collar jobs, unless you're like project manager, had the next job lined up, you might go six weeks between this construction job and the next one. So my mom was out here just. She simply just didn't like him and want to keep him away. There was no real concrete reason outside of she just simply didn't want him around. But it's been difficult because I'm like.

[Kristen]

You probably want to make sure the same mistake is not made.

[Kaylin]

I never, and I've said this since, since Elliot was born, I never have ever been in the business of keeping my kids from their dads, ever, because of how I grew up. And so I asked him, like, did you ever try to call? What did Susie do? You knew my mom struggled. How could you leave me with her? Well, he didn't have a choice. Like, it was literally court ordered. He had to stay away. He said that he sent me a necklace at one point and it was returned back to him. I said, do you don't think it would have been better for me to be poor with you than with her? I don't remember what he said to that. Did you ever speak to her? During my childhood, did you ever send money or gifts? And by money I meant like child support, because my mom tells me that he never paid, which I think he didn't. But now I know how he lived for himself. He wasn't gonna have anything to give me either. Did you ever ask for me to spend the summer with you? Which I learned that once my mom had that order. How he couldn't. You obviously went on to have more kids. Why? I thought that was interesting. Did you think of me when Michaela was born? We were born four years apart. I'm March, she's April. So almost exactly four years apart. And my sister and I weighed exactly the same.

[Kristen]

Oh, my God.

[Kaylin]

We weighed exactly the same. And I think we were the exact same inches long. So that was really interesting. Like, did you think of me? And then he went into the history of our names because our names are so similar. And both of our moms told us that they named us. My mom told me she got my name off a soap opera, and her mom told her that she got her name off of a show of some sort of.

[Kristen]

And that's not true.

[Kaylin]

That is absolutely false. And I believe my dad because, again, cut and dry. He said Hawaii is his favorite place and Alaska. Alaska and Hawaii are his favorite places. And what's so weird is that my sister's favorite place on Earth is Alaska, and my favorite place on Earth is Hawaii. And we were both named after, like, themes in Hawaii. So my dad was stationed there for the military, I think he said, for three years. Three years. And he actually married a Hawaiian woman.

[Kristen]

Oh, wow.

[Kaylin]

Yeah. K A I or A I is big in Hawaii, like the letters in Hawaii. So he named us Kaylin and Michaela and then Rey after himself. So. And then when you put our names together, Michaela, Ray, Kaylin Ray, and then Michaela spelled K A I, L. It's like our dad did that. So why. Our moms tried to lie to us. Also, I learned my sister didn't find out about me until she was in middle school. So I had added her. She told. She told me this, and I didn't know. I added her in Facebook and she didn't know who I was. So she had already been on Facebook before anyone. And her mom told her to delete it, delete it, delete it. And I added her again, probably thinking it didn't go through. The whole time, I knew that she existed because my mom's ex husband told me in a fight. So it was just like a really weird, like. Like how everything sort of came together. You wanted to have more kids. Did you think of me when Michaela was born? When did you leave Michaela and why. These are, like, the questions about my sister. Did you try to see Michaela after you left? Which. That's a whole other situation that I'm not going to speak on until my sister says that she wants to talk about it, because I almost am, like, more mad for her. Excuse me. Did you have any other kids? This is an important piece, because the first time I met him, when I was 17 and pregnant, he told me verbatim that you have siblings in the Philippines.

[Kristen]

I saw this in the video.

[Kaylin]

And I get there, and I asked him again, because I'm thinking they're gonna come up on 23andMe or Ancestry. Like, I'm excited. Have been since he told me 15 years ago. This time around, he says, no, you don't have siblings in the Philippines. Everyone in the military says that.

[Kristen]

You were like, no, they don't.

[Kaylin]

My mom's whole side was military men. Okay. My mom's dad, grandfather, all of them. I've never. My two of my exes are military. Jav's Air Force, Elijah's army. Nobody has ever said that to me.

[Kristen]

So I'm thinking, imagine, Javi came home from being deployed.

[Kaylin]

You got. There's other kids everywhere. The boys have siblings everywhere. If Elijah came home, Elijah was stationed in Hawaii. If he came home and was like, the babies have siblings in Hawaii.

[Kristen]

I just need to know how I. We need to pull that.

[Kaylin]

How many does it happen? I'm sure.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

But, like, he told me that when I was 17, and I have died on that hill 12 times. I've literally been so excited. I have been so excited. Okay. I also found out Nicole from book club is also Filipino. She's probably my cousin.

[Kristen]

That's what you thought.

[Kaylin]

And now he crushed my dreams.

[Kristen]

Yeah, your dreams. Crushed. So left there without more siblings.

[Kaylin]

But then I was like, this is how we get him to take the DNA test. We have to see if there's more siblings. Because now that I know that you were also in Japan, you were in Hawaii, you were in Alaska, you were in the Philippines. There is a sibling somewhere. Take this DNA test, please. And then he says, I don't have nothing to hide. I'll do it. So we're waiting on the results. Do you have regrets? If so, what? He had none. Not a single one. Couldn't name one thing that he regretted. Do you have any final thoughts? And I felt like that was a little morbid. That wasn't really the direction I think you meant.

[Kristen]

In the moment.

[Kaylin]

In the moment. My aunt is coordinating everything with the funeral home. He is being cremated. I did. I think that was his wishes anyway. But I also told my aunt would prefer him to be cremated. My aunt has Been really, really great through this whole experience. I'll say. She told me she would do whatever I asked. Like, as far as, like, my dad's services, he didn't have a whole lot. He didn't have friends. He really didn't have a whole lot of family. I did say cremation. She agreed. I think that's what he also wanted. The military is going to give him a headstone for the Marines, and they do some sort of grave graveside, something they do. And so the plan right now is that he'll be cremated in the next two weeks. I believe I, I. That he'll be cremated in the next two weeks. And then I'm gonna wait to go back down to Texas until they do the graveside with the headstone and stuff. When the headstone is done, I'll go down, which we're looking at November. So for now, it. It'll be that I didn't want to go down for the ashes because I'd rather just be with my sister, my aunt, and everybody once I get down there. So that's the plan right now. And I did text my sister this morning and asked if she wanted any of the ashes. And she said she did give us permission to talk about this also. Just the whole experience. She said she. I have her permission to talk about anything. There's just certain things that I'm not willing to. She will be willing to, I'm sure, but said, do you want any of Raymond's ashes? And she said, I guess I. I'll just need to separate him and my mother. I guess that can be my last nice gesture.

[Kristen]

So something you were talking about on coffee combos two weeks ago was that you were actually feeling really emotional for your sister because she was about to become an orphan. Now that that happened, is that something that's also, like, on your mind? Like, what. When you found out that he passed away, you know, what were you feeling? And what have you felt? Like, the day since the, the day.

[Kaylin]

I found out Monday was really hard for me. Like, it was weird because, like, I would cry, and then I'd be fine, and then I would cry, and then I would be fine, like, if nothing was happening. But it's. It's weird because I do feel disconnected from him, but I'm so emotional about it, and I. I'm having a hard time, like, understanding that part of it is, like, I don't know why I'm emotional when I haven't had a relationship with him my whole life. So, like, I really don't know, I.

[Kristen]

Think it's still a part of you. Like, that's still a part of you. Kind of like you were talking about instinctually, like you. How you are with your niece and your sister. I think that's. It's literally made half of you. I think also finding out that had it not been for your mom, there would have been a chance to know him. Maybe not live with him, but to know him and have some sort of relationship. It's very possible.

[Debbie]

Like, do you feel like you might.

[Kristen]

Be grieving the relationship you could have had?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

Because I think even though he was. And when I tell you guys, like, he's poor, like, I don't mean like poor, I mean, like poverty level. Yeah. Like below. Yeah. I think that one. I needed to be exposed to that as a child because if my mom didn't have it, my grandparents had it. My grandparents never made sure. They made sure I never went without. You know what they knew. They. I don't think they knew the extent of what was going on, the circumstances that my mom had me in, because at the end of the day, like, they want to believe their daughter over me. Right. So I never went, went without when I lived with my grandparents or when I stayed with them. I needed to be exposed to that. And I also needed the chance to decide on my own. I needed to be given the chance to decide for myself not to go live with him or not. Because I don't think at this point in my life that a child should be able to decide those things unless there's like, abuse or certain circumstances. But I needed to be given the permission to get to know him and form my own opinion so that if I wanted to have a relationship with him, I could. I also don't understand why I couldn't be sent down there for the summers growing up. Because I could have stayed with my aunt and had a relationship with my dad through my aunt. Because my aunt had not much. Like, she wasn't wealthy by any means, but she had like a very nice home. She had three kids that were around my, you know, they're all in their 30s and 40s now. Like, I could have had a relationship with him through her, and I was never given the opportunity to do that. You've probably seen a million ads for.

[Becky]

Hair growth products and thought, sure, yeah, that actually works. And I did too, until I found out that neutrophil isn't like the rest of them. Neutrophil is physician formulated, clinically tested, and dermatologists recommend it.

[Debbie]

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[Becky]

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[Debbie]

For you because you are back on your Coffee kick, do you struggle with bloating and discomfort after your morning coffee?

[Becky]

Typically, yes, every day.

[Debbie]

That is absolutely not fun. However, I have a hack for you. After drinking Everyday Dose consistently, my bloating has reduced and my face is less puffy and I'm going to need you to get it stat.

[Becky]

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[Debbie]

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[Becky]

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[Kaylin]

How my stomach is.

[Becky]

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[Kaylin]

And what's so interesting to me now as an adult and as a mom of seven kids, right? Like, I have to have a village to help me, to help make my world go round. And so I'm thinking Javi moves away, Lincoln goes there in the summertime, right? Why did my mom not make her life easier and send me down there for the summertime, even if it wasn't with my dad, but by my. With my aunt and have a relationship with my dad through that. You didn't have to pay for child care. You wouldn't have needed whatever the. I had it for Elliot. Whenever you get, like, state assistance for daycare, my mom was constantly shuffling and, and out of pure desperation, my mom left me with unsight unsafe people because there was nobody else to take care of me. You could have sent me down there to be with my family for free all summer and didn't. For what?

[Kristen]

And like, you missed out, you missed out on a whole side of a family.

[Kaylin]

Well, so my cousins, my two of my cousins called me since then and my, my one cousin Carly, she messaged me. She's a couple years older than me. I'm, I'm 33. She's probably, she's probably 35, 36, somewhere around there. I don't really know how old she is, but she's in her 30s. She messaged me something along the lines of, like, she basically said, like, by no fault of our own, like, we don't have the relationships that first cousin should have and like, she wants to make space for me. And like, we just don't know how to do that because when you start as adults, it's just way harder. Like, my sister and I should be so much closer than we are. But I, and I told my dad to his face. I said the adults couldn't get their together enough so that my sister and I could have had a relationship, had both of our moms and our dad and my aunt had. They worked together. Me and my sister both could have been with my aunt in the summer times or like, she lived in the same town as my dad her whole life. So even if she wasn't spending the full summer with them, she could have known me. But Our parents literally could not get their shit together enough.

[Kristen]

Yeah. And I think that's really sad. And then on top of that, you have your own situations with your kids. And now I feel like. Not that you weren't doing a good job before. Do you feel, like, the pressure. There's any pressure now for you? Do you feel like you're gonna do anything differently or be more in tune to try to avoid doing certain things because of the experience that, you know you had?

[Kaylin]

No, I think it just amplifies. I mean, I've said it since I started teen mom. I will go to the ends of the earth to make sure that my kids have relationships with their siblings. So it just, like, sort of amplifies those feelings that I've had. And I mean, if nothing else, I think that I'm able to use how I grew up and the lack of relationship, I guess, with my sister for. To know that or to feel that.

[Kristen]

I have a couple questions for you.

[Becky]

Okay.

[Debbie]

Actually.

[Kaylin]

Great.

[Kristen]

Well, my first question is, like, how are you doing?

[Kaylin]

Mostly fine. It's weird because it's like my dad died, but what does that mean? Nobody knows me to have a dad, so it's like a weird. Like, am I even allowed to cry about it? Like, it's weird. Yeah. I don't know why I cry about it. I don't know why I get upset.

[Becky]

And.

[Kristen]

But that's for you.

[Debbie]

That's for you to work through.

[Kristen]

And you'd figure out you're allowed to feel however you want to feel.

[Kaylin]

Well, when I have my kids. Dads telling me that I'm only doing this for content, it's like, I feel crazy because take the podcast away, take all of it away, I would still be crying about it.

[Debbie]

You were.

[Kaylin]

I forget who I told. Maybe I told my dad. I don't remember, like, having misplaced anger my whole life. Like, I should have never been mad at my dad. And so, like, I. I don't necessarily have regrets because I. I don't know what. I don't know.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

But now I'm just, like, reflecting on everything. Like, all of my feelings were so misplaced, and I don't know what to do with them now because I haven't been able to confront my mom yet, and I haven't. And I don't know if I ever will be able to because we could reach out. I did end up messaging her from my sister's account because she has me blocked. So I messaged her from my sister's account, and I'm assuming that to this point, she has not responded because my sister probably would have told me. And so it's been weird. And I actually, I don't think I've cried about it since Monday. I looked at. I was upset about some. About related to this and I looked at Creed and I was like, sorry, my dad died. And he goes, I know. So, like, my kids don't even understand the weight of like the conflict up here. Because they don't. It's not like they lost someone, you know what I'm saying? Or I lost someone that they knew. They're having a hard time understanding it because they also didn't even know he existed. They thought he was dead this whole time. That like, like Lux literally said to me, I thought he was dead already. Like, he didn't know.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

So it's been like. And how do you explain that to kids who don't understand? That's why I think, like, it was almost. It would have almost been better for me to be exposed to how my dad lived, you know, who he was around Texas in general. Like, things like that. Like, I don't know, because I would just have like more of a well rounded, like, perspective on life maybe. I don't know.

[Kristen]

I feel like that was a question I had for you was do you tell your kids? Have you told your kids? How did does that go? How do you even.

[Kaylin]

So when I got the call from my aunt on that Friday. So I guess it would have been. If this is more for me than for the listeners, I saw him on the 15th, so it would have been September 5th. I got the call. September 5th, I got the call that he was not doing well, took a turn for the worse. Lincoln, Lux and Creed were all in the car. So they sort of knew. But I don't again, like, it doesn't hold weight for them and I can't expect it to because they didn't know. But like, that's the whole thing. I also now that I. That, that reminds me. I showed him pictures of my kids. I showed my dad. It's weird calling him my dad because pop ups my dad and Raymond's not my dad, but I guess they can both be my dad. I showed Raymond pictures of my kids and he said nothing. He literally said nothing. And I said, are you going to say anything? And he's like, what do you want me to say? That's how matter of fact he is. Like, he literally looked at me dead in the face and was like, no emotion. If anyone's listening to this episode on audio and not the Patreon video. There's also a video on my Patreon of me going to my dad's and asking him questions. And I filmed the camera one of just me because I wasn't going to put him on there, but there is some of us at the table. So I'm showing him pictures of the kids and he doesn't respond. And then he says, how do you feel about Elliot? So apparently Raymond was keeping up with me online, finds out his grandson is gay. Now Raymond is. He was a bull rider. He was a marine from Texas. My guess, and I don't know this for sure, is that he's probably conservative. With that being said, he also lived all over the world. Japan, the Philippines, Hawaii, Alaska. I mean these are places that you are seeing other types of people. All walks of life. You're seeing life. Like I just feel like when you travel and you haven't been out of the United States. So that's why I'm more. So saying it to you is like it broadens. Like it keeps you open minded because you see the way other people live in other countries for better or for worse. And so it opens your eyes to so many things. Right. And I was a little surprised by his reaction to it because I'm like, okay, if he's from the south, he's conservative. I thought he was gonna be like.

[Kristen]

Like, did you think he was asking you because he was gonna tell you.

[Kaylin]

That he doesn't approve? Yes, like I thought he was gonna be like, I don't with that.

[Kristen]

Like you thought he was gonna have some to say about Elliot?

[Kaylin]

Yeah, because he's real country. I'm talking cowboy hats, no teeth, bull rider. No, he's, he's country. So I with that I assumed, which maybe I shouldn't have, that he's conservative. And so that he was not gonna be okay with. I mean I didn't think he would be okay with homosexuals. So he says, how do you feel? And I said fine. I said my son is high honor roll president of ASL club. He's, you know, a great kid by all definitions of the word of the, of the term. Like he's just a great kid. I don't care who he loves. Like who the am I to shun my son for that? And he's like, okay. He's like, I don't care. I was just asking.

[Kristen]

And you're like, oh, wow, dodged.

[Kaylin]

Like I gave a whole speech on why I don't give a. Because I thought you were about to rip Me a new one because my son is gay.

[Kristen]

He's like, I just want to know how you felt about it.

[Kaylin]

Yep. Literally just like that. He's so weird.

[Kristen]

Like, that's.

[Kaylin]

Well, was. He was so, like, what an interest. Like, I. I literally left that. I was going to say appointment. I left that visit and said that my dad's personality is going to be my personality for the rest of my life. I want to be as carefree and I was going to say careless. I want to be as carefree as Raymond Glenn Lowry. I want to live my life, the rest of my life with that level of I don't give a fuck. I. This is what it is. Take. Take it or leave it. Like, that is what I want to live like.

[Kristen]

I. He was how old?

[Kaylin]

60, 66.

[Kristen]

That also comes with fudgeing age. I'm not saying, like, you said he was no different when you met him when he was 17. But I will tell you that my mom, the older she gets, and Debbie is about to turn 70, the less of a fuck. She. And I didn't think there was any fucks to give, but, yeah, somehow she keeps dropping the fucks.

[Kaylin]

I think it was the birth injury.

[Kristen]

Okay.

[Kaylin]

Yeah, the birth injury.

[Kristen]

To catch up for him.

[Kaylin]

Nope. I think he's been like this his whole life, which.

[Kristen]

That's great. Could you imagine how, like, I'm stressed.

[Kaylin]

Out about court coming up, but just.

[Kristen]

In, like, I wish that I was.

[Kaylin]

Like my dad and it was just like, we got court coming up and that's it.

[Kristen]

And that's literally what happens as far as the thought goes.

[Kaylin]

That's as far as it goes.

[Becky]

That's literally. I did learn.

[Kaylin]

And I don't know if I said this on the other podcast. You're just a barely famous listener. He did show up to every single court date for the first two years. Every single court date regarding me.

[Kristen]

How'd that make you feel, Miss?

[Kaylin]

Again, Misplaced anger. I did not know that. I didn't know that he was trying. And he was. He had no money to the point that he was driving from Texas to Pennsylvania. So my aunt would put her three kids, my dad and her, in a van. Her van, and they would drive every single time. Like, she was as invested as, like, a parent would be. She. I think she was. She was more invested than he was.

[Kristen]

She had the emotions.

[Kaylin]

Yeah, well, she's a mom, and I think, like, her with me as her niece and me with my sister and me immediately just, like, having that instinctual, like, magnetic connection to my niece same situation with my aunt and me. So you fall in love with these kids as if they're your own. Really, you love them like your own. And so she was like the, my dad was the parent and then she was really the force behind him. And so learning that like he was there for the first. But it was that final court order from crossing state lines and all of that that my, my mom, he thought it was.

[Kristen]

There was no shot.

[Kaylin]

No, there wasn't. The judge, it was like a literate, like almost like a restraining order, like you cannot see them kind of deal. But I would like to go, I would like to confirm that with the, with the records.

[Becky]

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[Kaylin]

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[Becky]

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[Debbie]

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[Becky]

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[Debbie]

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[Debbie]

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[Kristen]

I do. I have another question for you. Do you feel like you visiting him now that he's passed? Do you feel like your visit was closure or do you feel like it was almost a cruel twist because now you learned all this information? If you wanted to have a relationship, you can't? Or are you in the middle?

[Kaylin]

No, I feel like it was closure. I don't know that I would have a relationship with him only because he was still the very like cut and dry surface level. Now maybe we would have been like able to wish each other merry Christmas or happy birthday or something. I think I could have had that sort of surface level connection. But a relationship? No. Like I probably would never have taken my kids down there to see him or anything. I just wish like if it was, if he would have cared enough. And I, I don't mean that in a cruel way. Like he just doesn't have the ability. Yeah, if he had the ability to like, I don't know if it would have meant anything to him because one of the last things that he said to me was, you still look mad.

[Becky]

Right?

[Kaylin]

And I'm trying to explain to him I don't want to be that way anymore. If I would have just gotten the opportunity to tell him, like, I'm not mad anymore. Like, I really appreciate the time that you gave me. It was like two hours. But I don't know if that would have made a difference for him or not. So it's more that, that piece of it is more for me just to let him know, like, I'm not, I'm not mad anymore. That part of it is like, that sucks. But I, I don't, I definitely don't think that we would have had, like, a. A relationship.

[Kristen]

You looked. And the people will see it if they watch the Patreon video of the. Of your visit. The relief that was on your face after coming out and getting in the car and starting to film again was literally visible, except for the part where it's lighter.

[Kaylin]

I was like. I said when you guys watch it. At first I was hurt that he said he had no regrets, but now I'm like, I'm at a place in my life where, like, I hope to live like that. And also his explanation for having no regrets was like, you can't change it no matter what. So what is the point of regretting it if you can't change it at all? So that was sort of his explanation. Now that I've sat with it for some time, it feels better.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So something that you immediately said to me, like, I'm talking within 24 hours.

[Kaylin]

Oh, God.

[Kristen]

Of him passing away was.

[Kaylin]

I'm scared.

[Kristen]

People were reaching out to you about him passing away because you had posted that that had happened on your personal Facebook, and you were talking to me about the dumb that people say when people pass away. You literally said to me, you said, if I hear about one more.

[Kaylin]

Don't care.

[Kristen]

Dad. You said you didn't talk about your dad.

[Kaylin]

Why do you.

[Kristen]

Becky didn't talk about her dad. I was like, we sure did it, because we're already in the club.

[Kaylin]

Becky was sitting in the passenger seat. We were waiting for Elliot to come downstairs because she was gonna say bye to all of us, and then she was gonna go back to her family. She didn't say a word about her dad dying.

[Kristen]

No.

[Kaylin]

When you. When I told you, you didn't mention your dad. Your dad's been dead for some time.

[Kristen]

13 years, baby.

[Kaylin]

And not one single time did you, like, yeah, that's. That. Me too. My dad died, too.

[Kristen]

No, no.

[Kaylin]

But then I did it to somebody this morning. Jerry. Jerry texted me and said, my sister passed away this morning.

[Kristen]

And he said, my dad just.

[Kaylin]

I said, my dad died on Monday.

[Kristen]

So I guess people try to relate because they think it makes people feel better. I think that's just like an innate human response where you're like, okay, I need to make them not feel alone, so I'm gonna relate as hard as possible. It does not matter. Like, I don't care if I have to whip out of my ass to try to relate it, but I'm gonna do it. And death is not the time to relate to people, to try to relate situations. It happens, right? Like it definitely happens. It's not helpful.

[Kaylin]

Okay, so what. What exactly is the premise of Dead Dad's club? It's just like, we're all. All of our dads are dead, but, like, at what point can we all collectively talk about our dead dad?

[Kristen]

Oh, as soon as your dad dies, you can join the sick humor, right? Like, oh, I got jokes for days. I'm as cold as my dad is.

[Debbie]

Sitting in a wall.

[Kristen]

I want to be with my dad in said wall. You know, I. You can talk about it. And, like. And that goes for, like, I accept dead moms as well. Like, I accept dead mom people.

[Kaylin]

Okay.

[Kristen]

Rebecca, unfortunately, is in that club.

[Kaylin]

I'm sorry.

[Kristen]

So we accept everyone, not just dads, but, like, it's. It's a unifying experience for sure. But, like, you can start with the sick humor as soon as you enter. So, like, you became a member Monday. So if you want to talk.

[Kaylin]

Well, I was already in the dead Dad's club because at the time, I thought it was dead beat for me.

[Kristen]

Okay, that. That might be like a.

[Kaylin]

So before I was in, I was already an honorary member of the Dead. We took you in with a deadbeat dad. So it was like, everybody's dad is dead, and mine was just dead beat. So it's, like, sort of the same, but now he's officially dead.

[Kristen]

So you're an official member.

[Kaylin]

Right?

[Kristen]

You got your ribbon Monday.

[Kaylin]

Right. But he's. He's about to not be horizontal anymore. He's about to be in an urn. We just ordered them on Amazon this morning. So that was the nice twist of events was shopping for urns on Amazon, which was so morbid.

[Kristen]

Amazon has a ton of urns. Like, they have.

[Kaylin]

They have four packs.

[Debbie]

Yes, they do.

[Kaylin]

No. So I.

[Kristen]

For family members. The minis.

[Kaylin]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

Yeah. We got necklaces and. No, I told you what we did. Not for my dad. He's in a wall.

[Kaylin]

But Rebecca was like, I'm not gonna get the four pack for you. Because I'm like, there's only three of us that want ashes, so, like, we don't need the four pack. But I was like, it could have been a bonus. It's just the fact that, like, death is just fucking permanent and you have to decide what fudgeing color urn you want, and it's weird. And you can buy them on Amazon.

[Kristen]

And you do it pretty quick.

[Kaylin]

And it's like, what else do you need from Amazon? I need tampons. I need snacks.

[Debbie]

Yep.

[Kaylin]

Ghost energy drinks. And can you get my dead dad's urn.

[Kristen]

It's literally like you got curb stomped. Like, you get curb stomped with the death. And then it's like, oh, you need to do this. And you got to shell out, like, $10,000 at minimum.

[Kaylin]

But don't forget to get the earn on Amazon.

[Kristen]

And if you need an urn PSA to everybody. If someone's dead and you need an urn, do not do it through the funeral home. Do it through Amazon.

[Kaylin]

Well, to be fair, the funeral home earn was like this, like, golf moment, which I also learned. My dad was a golfer. Like a wannabe golfer, which. Yeah, Lincoln gets it from Raymond.

[Debbie]

Raymond.

[Kaylin]

So he gets. What was I saying?

[Kristen]

The golfer at the funeral.

[Kaylin]

Right, right. So the. The urn that had the golfer on it from the funeral home was 180. But you go on Amazon, you can get an urn for 30.

[Kristen]

Yeah, I was gonna say 180 bucks.

[Kaylin]

Shout out to Jeff Bezos.

[Kristen]

Does he even own Amazon anymore?

[Kaylin]

I don't know. He can own me with that money.

[Kristen]

You evidently got the earns from Etsy PSA Go get. Also check out Etsy.

[Kaylin]

Go get. Go support a small business.

[Kristen]

Have you had any what if thoughts since? Either since you're meeting or actually since he passed away? Because I still do.

[Becky]

No.

[Kaylin]

The only what if that I'm most concerned about, I would say is what if my sister and I don't have a relationship anymore because the one person that brought us. He didn't bring us together. The reason we're connected is gone. We don't have that in common anymore. Like, we do, but we don't. I'm just scared that we won't have a relationship or like, the. The reconnecting that we're having right now dissipates. I don't want that to happen. So that's like, more the what if. But outside of that, I. I don't. My sister fully encouraged me to go fight Susie. Not actually fight her, but go confront her. And so that's what I want to go do now. And so really, the what if it. The what if I would say regarding that is, what if Susie can back up what she has to say?

[Kristen]

Then you're gonna be, like, super conflicted. But I think going to Honesdale and getting your records is a very good idea.

[Kaylin]

Sign me up for sure. Can I. You think I can make a request online?

[Debbie]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

Some Delaware court is not online at all, so I didn't know if. I wonder if I could do it.

[Kristen]

Okay. Do you have any questions for me?

[Kaylin]

How often do you go visit your dad?

[Becky]

Do you have his ashes or is.

[Kaylin]

He literally in a wall?

[Kristen]

He's literally. His body is inside of a wall.

[Kaylin]

Oh, have you seen it?

[Kristen]

Have I seen his body?

[Debbie]

No.

[Kristen]

Like, he's in his casket that we picked out.

[Kaylin]

Okay.

[Kristen]

Yeah. My mom will also go in there.

[Kaylin]

Okay.

[Kristen]

Yeah. And so it's like essentially a double wide trailer. Basically.

[Kaylin]

Oh, Raymond lived in a single wide.

[Kristen]

It's really deep back there. So I stayed when they. When he was getting buried, everybody left and I stayed for him to go in the wall. And I remember them taking the thing because he's in a mausoleum. So he's. They take this thing off and that's expensive. Yeah, it's really expensive. That was my. My dad's final wish. Because this man that I miss dearly was so dumb like any other man. And he said, oh, it's climate controlled.

[Kaylin]

Who said that?

[Kristen]

My father.

[Kaylin]

He wanted to be in a wall because it's climate control.

[Kristen]

Climate controlled. So when people come to visit, they.

[Kaylin]

Don'T have to worry about.

[Kristen]

They won't be cold or hot. No, it's not. Oh, it's not climate controlled. It is hot in the summer and you're freezing your tits off in the winter. Time does not matter, so. And it smells really bad.

[Kaylin]

Really.

[Kristen]

They put, like, air fresheners in there.

[Kaylin]

But once the bodies are decomposed, what is there to, like, over time, doesn't that go. Does the gasket not bust open from the gas?

[Kristen]

So the last time I went to visit him. Taking this back to this, this little question. I think I texted you about this. I'm pretty sure I did tell. I think I texted you telling you. It's not like dead bodies in there. And we had to report it to, like, the cemetery. I don't know if their things were dying. I don't know if, like, I don't know if the air fresheners were dying, but there was definitely a smell of like. You cannot mistake the smell of death. You cannot.

[Kaylin]

I've never smelt it.

[Kristen]

I have because I was. I saw my dad a long time after he had passed away in the house. Because they did a whole investigation and stuff.

[Kaylin]

Just because the way he died, the.

[Kristen]

Way he died and his age and whatever. My mom did not kill him. I did think that for a second, but she did not.

[Kaylin]

You should write a thriller book. Maybe you thought your mom killed him.

[Kristen]

Briefly. They argued that day. So it was a little sus. But it was fine, you know.

[Kaylin]

Debbie. Debbie.

[Kristen]

But like, also, I was young I was 18. I saw him, I'm like, why does his neck look broken? I have to ride for my mom. You're already gone. I'm really sorry about that.

[Kaylin]

I'm really sorry about that.

[Kristen]

It wasn't good.

[Becky]

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[Becky]

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[Kristen]

But it was just so the gases.

[Kaylin]

So the so was there a fresh body in there? Because at some point the fresh bodies.

[Kristen]

Aren'T the ones that stink.

[Debbie]

But what I did learn when I.

[Kristen]

Did a quick google search like do mausoleum smell can they smell and why they're supposed to be like drains and stuff in there. Because I guess your body, like liquefies basically at some point. And it's supposed to be able to.

[Debbie]

Flow out in a way.

[Kristen]

And if it doesn't and it gets.

[Debbie]

Stuck in there, then it stinks.

[Kristen]

And sometimes it like drips down the. It can drip down, like the mausoleum.

[Debbie]

And all kinds of shit can happen.

[Kristen]

So I was pissed off because of how fudgeing expensive it is to even get into a mausoleum.

[Kaylin]

I'm still stuck on the part where you said that it liquefies. So if it likes, get left. But, like, why do people get buried? Because I don't want that to happen, I guess.

[Kristen]

You go back.

[Kaylin]

What is the purpose of paying for a casket, a funeral, all of these things? A mausoleum make you feel better? No.

[Kristen]

And to give you a place to go visit somebody. I used to go a lot. I used to go a lot because it would bring me, like, not really peace, but, like, it just felt like I was like, closer to him at. When I was younger because I was so fucking lost of just like it was so unexpected too. So it's not like there was any prep. So I was like, I don't even know what to do. So I used to go more. Now I go on Father's Day and at some point around Christmas, I try to go on Christmas Day, but it's hard now that I'm married because I have to go do the whole split holiday thing. I try to go, but like, I. I feel him. I think about him when I'm at home, when I'm doing stuff, when I'm driving. Like, so it's not. I don't feel like I have to go specifically there to think about him or like, I don't feel him there. He's. He's not there. Like, he's just not there. Like, his body's there. What the. Like, what do you want me to do? I literally went on Father's Day this year. That's when it smelled really bad. It was hot as. And I literally said, I knocked on the thing and I was like, on his little headstone thing, and I knocked on it and I said, it smells. It's not climate controlled. And I'm pissed off. So I gotta go outside because my mom's parents are in the same one. So when I walk in there, I've got relatives.

[Kaylin]

So one of them is liquefied, one of them is liquefying. You don't know if it's your dad or your grandparents.

[Kristen]

50 some people in there.

[Kaylin]

I'M not. I want to be in a mausoleum with people. I don't know. If you're gonna put me in a mausoleum, you better put your own little eight of us in there.

[Kristen]

Well then you're looking at like.

[Kaylin]

Like a family. What would that run you?

[Kristen]

Me? It's depends on how gaudy you want it to be because they have those in that cemetery.

[Kaylin]

Put me in a crypt.

[Kristen]

Like a family crypt.

[Kaylin]

Put me in a crypt with all my children.

[Kristen]

I mean you have enough.

[Kaylin]

I don't. I don't have a spouse currently. Oh, they're sp. Oh yeah.

[Kristen]

I will say when I got diagnosed with ms, I was like, if I kick it before you, I might need to take your place to my mom.

[Kaylin]

Wait, is there enough room for you in that mausoleum?

[Kristen]

I don't. They might have an open spot. My mom was like you and Corey should.

[Kaylin]

So if they reach out to the.

[Kristen]

Office and ask them at any point.

[Kaylin]

Do they take the caskets out somebody else?

[Kristen]

No, they just build another mausoleum. Like they stay in there for a long. Next time I go, I'm gonna FaceTime you.

[Kaylin]

I'll throw up.

[Kristen]

Well, you can't smell it through FaceTime.

[Kaylin]

No, but I don't even.

[Kristen]

I'll have to FaceTime you from in it and like we'll go examine like the longest person that's been in there because your death dates are on your thing.

[Kaylin]

If someone buries an urn full of ashes, do we have to request from the cemetery for them to be dug up so I can have them instead?

[Kristen]

Yes. If anybody gets buried, you have to request an was it exhuming exhibition My.

[Kaylin]

Grandparents, like I want their ashes and nobody ever asked me did I want any ashes.

[Kristen]

That's really sad.

[Kaylin]

Like no one even asked me.

[Kristen]

That's really sad.

[Kaylin]

I might ask text my uncle, hey, do you think I could exhume my grandparents? Because he's probably power of attorney just.

[Kristen]

Get some of their ashes out.

[Kaylin]

Yeah, because I loved them.

[Kristen]

They also scam the out of you at cemeteries too. Like when you're in a mausoleum.

[Kaylin]

I want to own a funeral home at this point.

[Kristen]

I mean they make bank because funeral homes.

[Kaylin]

Unless you're gonna. When you're all out of business, somebody's always dying.

[Kristen]

You're never going to.

[Kaylin]

This is morbid.

[Kristen]

I mean it is, but it's this. That's why they call it the business of death.

[Kaylin]

Well, sign me up.

[Kristen]

It's like part of it.

[Kaylin]

Killer funeral homes.

[Kristen]

You just could just do killer nothing, just killer.

[Kaylin]

Killer death services.

[Kristen]

Like it's it's insane.

[Kaylin]

But killer.

[Kristen]

Yeah. To answer your question, Killer funerals, I don't go as often. I don't go as often as I used to.

[Kaylin]

Okay.

[Kristen]

Because I don't feel the need to anymore.

[Kaylin]

So do you since you said that funeral homes make bank do would you say that that would be a good business venture for us?

[Kristen]

I mean, I said that when my dad died.

[Kaylin]

So should we do it? Well, now are both of our. So it's like Kaylan, Kristen at it again. Welcome to the dead dads club. You are signing up with Killer Funeral Homes. And the K is for Kayl and Kristen. You know, like the K is where we didn't kill him.

[Kristen]

We didn't kill them, but we'll keep them.

[Kaylin]

We'll bury them in a mausoleum. They'll liquefy at killer mausoleum.

[Kristen]

Yeah. Do you have any other questions for me? Invol?

[Kaylin]

I'm sure that this is a roller coaster and I'm going to cry at times I don't understand because grief works in really weird ways. And I'm on top of this. For anyone wondering, Buddha also has cancer. So it's like you're going through it. I learned that in the same week my dad died. You're going, it's going. It's rough. I don't have any other questions at the moment.

[Kristen]

That's fine. Beginning of the episode, you said when you found out you were crying and then you would stop and then you were. And then Monday you were crying and then you would stop up. That is literally grief. That is so normal. I could be fine for six months and not cry about my dad and something happens and I am a nightmare. Ask Corey. It's not good.

[Kaylin]

No, it's rough.

[Kristen]

It's really bad. And it could be the dumbest. And a lot of people say the first year is so hard when somebody passes away. For me, it was actually the second year.

[Kaylin]

Really?

[Kristen]

Because you expect it. People tell you this year is going to be hard. Right?

[Debbie]

Like.

[Kristen]

Like you're missing all the firsts and whatever. Whatever you people tell you that it's.

[Debbie]

Going to get better.

[Kristen]

It doesn't actually get better.

[Kaylin]

You just get used to it.

[Kristen]

The best way I can describe this, somebody described it to me this way and that's how I completely agree.

[Debbie]

Grief is like a ball in a box.

[Kristen]

And right now the box is very, very small. So the ball is constantly hitting all sides of the box. So it's more frequent. When you. When you're longer out, you get a bigger box, the box gets bigger. But the ball is still there and it fucking slams at the most unexpected moments into a side, and the side would be you, and you lose your mind.

[Kaylin]

Interesting.

[Kristen]

That was like the best depiction I've ever heard.

[Kaylin]

I don't know that I'll have that same.

[Kristen]

You had a very different situation.

[Kaylin]

Because it's not like I'm doing anything without him. I never did anything with him.

[Kristen]

No, but I think it's more internal for you. Like, it's a lot of internal thoughts. Like, nobody knew how you felt. Nobody knew.

[Kaylin]

Well, I always said that you, you don't miss what you never had.

[Kristen]

You have always.

[Kaylin]

So for me, it was like, I can't miss my dad because I never had him. I can miss what I never have because I'm more so grieving the loss of what I could have had. The adults got their together, correct. And my mom knew about my sister. My sister's mom knew about me. My grandparents knew about my sister. Everyone knew about each other. And none of them could get their together. So it's like, I'm grieving that.

[Kristen]

Yeah. And that's hard and it's very lonely.

[Kaylin]

I would like to end this episode saying that when I left my dad, I said, I don't know if I'll ever see you again. I left there thinking he would live for another year or two. That's what I thought. No hug, no handshake, no anything. But it was like, I'm glad we did this. He said we. He was glad we did this. And, you know, if you could tell him something, I would say, thank you for making time. For my sister and I to go.

[Becky]

There.

[Kaylin]

Brought me peace that I didn't expect. I was. And I'm not mad because I left. When I left, he said, you still look mad. And I would tell him, I'm not mad anymore. So I hope he didn't. I hope he died quickly and I hope he died painlessly. And I don't know that we'll ever know that. I hope he didn't. He had copd. So I hope he suffocate. You know what I mean? Like, I hope he didn't wake up and was like, can't breathe. I hope it was peaceful for him. And I, I, I truly think that he did what he could to his ability with him being as poor as he was. And also just. You cannot tell me that he is that the birth, the birth injury wasn't real. Because I saw it like that. You don't just, you don't just have people walking around like that. For no reason. And I don't think that was his fault. Yeah. So that's what I would say.

[Kristen]

If you. Do you feel like you asked all your questions or if you had one final one to ask, would you have anything?

[Kaylin]

No, I don't have any questions for him that he could have answered for me. I asked literally everything I could think of and. And he welcomed that too. So just for anyone who's trolling and hates my guts, he was ready to answer questions and expected it.

[Kristen]

I'm really glad that you got to go. I don't think that it makes the grief process any easier.

[Kaylin]

No.

[Kristen]

You would have been grieving regardless.

[Kaylin]

I don't know, though. Like, I think I would be more angry. It would be a very different grieving experience where, like, now I know where he, like, stood on everything. I know what he sort of experienced and things like that. So I think that now I have, like, a softer spot for him. Whereas if I never would have went, it would have been like a my dad's dead, like, I don't care kind of deal. So.

[Kristen]

So, yeah, now you just have to work on that anger.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kaylin]

So anyone else that has a dead parent, welcome to the club, sign up.

[Kristen]

We'll probably have merch.

[Kaylin]

Get the dead dad's club merch right here.

[Kristen]

Right here.

[Kaylin]

Thank you.

[Kristen]

Thanks, everyone.

[Kaylin]

Thanks, Kristen.

[Kristen]

You're welcome.

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[Kristen]

The Ring, you will die in seven.

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[Adam Rippon]

Hi, I'm Adam Rippon and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent free in my head for years. From dumb decisions to awkward moments I probably should have kept to myself. Nothing's off limits. Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone middle flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that, there might be too many sound effects. I've been told to chill. Will I? Unclear. But if you've ever laid awake at night cringing at something you said five years ago, congratulations, you found your people. Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kaylin]

Tonight's meal, Tilapia surprise with boiled cabbage.

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