Double Chin Certified With Dr. Ho

Summary

Barely Famous – “Double Chin Certified With Dr. Ho”

PodcastOne | May 1, 2026
Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Dr. Tina Ho (Facial Plastic Surgeon)

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Episode Overview

In this raw, unfiltered episode, Kail Lowry sits down with Dr. Tina Ho, her facial plastic surgeon, to have an open conversation about the facial rejuvenation surgery Kail underwent in August 2025. The duo dives into the ins and outs of Kail’s procedures—what really goes into getting rid of a “double chin,” the realities of facial plastic surgery, recovery (both physical and mental), debunking common misconceptions, and practical advice for anyone considering similar cosmetic procedures. The episode is candid, educational, and full of personal anecdotes and medical insights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kail’s Personal Journey and Reasons for Surgery

• Kail opens up about her struggle with “sagging and drooping” in her lower face and neck—an issue that is largely genetic in her family.
• Previously underwent chin liposuction in 2016, which worked well at the time, but following five pregnancies and the aging process, she noticed the changes becoming more pronounced.
  [03:12] Kail: “I noticed sagging and drooping here that was different from when I needed this liposuction in 2016...my mom had it, my grandma had it, my great-grandma had it.”

2. The Surgical Solution: Deep Plane Facelift & Structural Deep Neck Lift

• Dr. Ho describes the procedures Kail underwent: a deep plane facelift and structural deep neck lift.
• Kail was not a candidate for further liposuction or non-surgical procedures like Kybella due to deeper tissue issues.
• Dr. Ho explains how jawline contouring can be subtractive (like Kail’s case: removing tissue) or additive (adding fillers, implants).
• Facelifts and neck lifts are often combined for optimal jawline definition, especially if “jowling” is present.
  [05:00] Dr. Ho: “It just wasn’t about bulk of that superficial fat layer… I was seeing bulk of the deeper structures, below this muscle layer we call the platysma.”

3. Non-Surgical vs. Surgical Options

• Dr. Ho clarifies when injectables like Kybella or fillers are appropriate (mainly for superficial fat or minor enhancements).
• Kail expresses frustration at being asked if her results “could have been done without surgery.”
  [19:52] Kail: “One of them was, is there a way to achieve my results without getting surgery? And I almost threw my phone across the room…”
  [20:53] Dr. Ho: “You needed to subtract here... non-surgical treatments only do so much.”

4. The Real Recovery Experience

• Kail gets brutally honest about post-op challenges:
  • Swelling, nerve weakness (temporary lower lip paralysis), self-image struggles, and the need for mental health support.
  • Personal anecdote of her daughter headbutting her face post-op, intensifying swelling.
  • Importance of realistic expectations: “It’s a full year to recover.”
    [26:42] Kail: “Some people will see full results sooner, some people won’t… but even now, we’re eight months post-op, and I’m still going to see a little bit of fluctuation.”
• Dr. Ho emphasizes the emotional impact and the importance of honest surgeon-patient communication: [35:26] Dr. Ho: “That’s why it’s, as I said, it’s like a marriage—we’re in it together, you know, to get through it.”

5. Nerve Weakness – Risks & Reality

• Kail discusses her several-months-long lower lip weakness and the anxiety it brought, especially being on camera.
• Dr. Ho details why temporary facial nerve weakness happens, and that it typically resolves in time.
  [27:03] Dr. Ho: “The scariest, I would say, is possible facial nerve weakness… We quote about less than 2% [risk] in the literature.”

6. Hygiene, Swelling, and Post-Surgical Care

• Tips for post-operative care:
  • Water retention and swelling are much more noticeable in a “snatched” jawline, especially after high-sodium meals
  • Drains are used for several days post-op to prevent fluid buildup
    [44:36] Dr. Ho: “Now that you have less volume, swelling can occur more at the superficial level...”

7. Fillers, Kybella, and “Mini” Procedures: Myths Debunked

• Dr. Ho gets technical about the limits and downsides of filler, Kybella, and so-called “mini-facelifts.”
• Filler should be reversed before surgery if recent; permanent fillers or prior thread lifts complicate surgery.
• A “mini” facelift is often a “mini result.” [18:56] Dr. Ho: “A mini facelift to me means mini results. That could mean the results only last a couple years…” [62:42] Dr. Ho: “For an older patient, mini facelift, mini necklift…that’s a waste of money. I’m all or nothing to get the most.”

8. Body Weight, GLP-1s and Maintaining Results

• Ideal to be at a stable weight before surgery to optimize healing and results.
• Weight loss medications (GLP-1s, e.g., Wegovy/Ozempic) can change facial volume and reveal laxity.
• Medical grade skincare is highly recommended to maintain skin health and surgical results.

9. Honest Talk About Cost and Choosing a Surgeon

• Procedures are five-figure investments and highly individualized; Dr. Ho’s office offers virtual quotes with photo submission.
• Do your research, vet your surgeon, and listen if they say “no”—don’t doctor-shop for someone who’ll say “yes” to an unnecessary or risky procedure.
  [68:06] Kail: “If a doctor is telling you no, they’re telling you no for a reason...don’t go look for five other doctors to do it. It’s not worth it.”

10. Social Media, Stigma, & Candid Conversations

• Kail shares the reactions—positive and negative—she received on social media about her transformation.
• Dr. Ho describes the unique pressures of working with influencer patients and the public discourse about plastic surgery.
• Both stress the value of honest, stigma-free discussions around facial procedures.
  [77:12] Dr. Ho: “There was a People magazine article where you…mentioned you were going to get your neck chopped off…”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Genetics & Expectations:

"It was genetic for me. My mom had it, my grandma had it, my great-grandma had it." – Kail [06:53]

On Non-Surgical Options:

“No, you cannot have what I had and get the results I have without surgery, unfortunately.” – Kail [19:52]

Risks of Surgery:

“The scariest, I would say, is possible facial nerve weakness. As I usually mention to patients, this nerve here to the lower lip…less than 2% chance.” – Dr. Ho [27:03]

Patient-Surgeon Relationship:

“It’s like a marriage. Right, we’re in it together, you know, to get through it.” – Dr. Ho [35:26]

Vet Your Surgeon:

“Do your research and vet your surgeon. And if you feel any inkling that something is off with your surgeon, don’t go with them.” – Kail [36:35]

Mental Health in Recovery:

“Make sure you take care of your mental health…you don’t know until you go through it how it will impact you.” – Kail [38:03]

Swelling & Sodium:

“I never noticed any swelling on a regular day…but now that my jawline is snatched, I notice it on a regular day if I eat too much sodium.” – Kail [43:43]

Mini-lifts & Fillers:

“A mini facelift to me means mini results…mini results only last a couple years.” – Dr. Ho [18:56], [62:42]

On the Cost:

“In full transparency, I did pay five figures for this, and you probably will too.” – Kail [56:31]

Social Media Reactions:

“I was really struggling with how I looked after and so I can’t put enough emphasis on it. I would do it 10 times over now that I’m eight months out. But in the moment, you’re going to feel like. I didn’t regret it though.” – Kail [78:58]

Marketing Fun:

“Getting your neck chopped off is very ‘Kail’ of me to say…double chin certified!” – Kail & Dr. Ho [81:51, 82:25]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:20 – Intro to Dr. Ho & Kail describes her journey
• 04:05 – Explanation of facial contouring: surgical vs. non-surgical
• 06:53 – Genetics & jawline discussion
• 09:59 – Age trends & changing norms for facelifts/neck lifts
• 19:52 – Surgical vs. non-surgical options
• 26:42 – Full year of recovery; expectation management
• 27:03 – Facial nerve injury risk explained
• 35:26 – Surgeon’s anxiety about outcomes; “it’s a marriage”
• 43:43 – Swelling, sodium, and diet in healing
• 51:19–53:54 – The impact of fillers and non-surgical procedures on surgical planning
• 56:31 – Honest cost talk & how to get pricing info
• 62:42 – Dr. Ho on mini facelifts being a “waste of money”
• 68:06 – Vetting surgeons & why “no” is important
• 77:12 – Social media & “neck chopped off” story

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Recommendations & Key Takeaways

For Potential Surgery Candidates:

• Seek multiple opinions, be honest about your goals, and accept the advice of your surgeon.
• Understand that surgical solutions are permanent and often more effective than non-surgical ones for dramatic changes.
• Prepare for a lengthy, sometimes challenging recovery—body and mind.
• Stability in weight, realistic expectations, and optimal skincare enhance results.

On Social & Emotional Aspects:

• Social media will have opinions—focus on your satisfaction and well-being.
• Mental health support is crucial; don’t hesitate to engage therapists.
• It’s normal for recovery and emotional reactions to be different from others, even your friends.

Medical/Maintenance Tips:

• Medical grade skincare, sun protection, minimizing inflammatory foods, and continuing healthy habits are critical for maintaining your results long-term.
• Be cautious with non-surgical treatments (fillers, Kybella, devices) if considering future surgical work.

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Where to Find Dr. Ho

• Instagram & TikTok: @drtinaho
• Website: www.doctortinaho.com

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Final Thought from Kail:
“I’m so glad I did it. I’m glad that you felt like I was a good candidate for it, and I’m happy with my results. So thank you.” [82:32]

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Great. Thanks so much for having me on the show and thanks so much for trusting your. Your face and your neck and me. So I know it's been, been a journey. Sometimes we describe it as having a short lived marriage together because it's a lot of trust there. But you've healed beautifully and you know, I've been grateful for you to share your journey and trust your face.

[A]

And I could not have been prepared for the journey. I don't think anyone is fully prepared because I went in thinking I could just get my double chin cut off. Right. And that's not the case. Right. So can you explain what exactly I got done so that I don't butcher it myself?

[B]

So the procedure you had included a deep plane facelift as well as structural deep neck lift. So when we first had our consultation and just a kind shout out to Tanya Gallagher at Aurad, grateful for the kind referrals because she mentioned. Right. That you needed surgery. I'm sure she talked to you about jawline contouring options.

[A]

I actually asked her because I had previously gotten liposuction of my chin in 2016 and at that time I was a candidate for it. And then I had five more kids. So obviously with that and genetics and everything else, I noticed sagging and drooping specifically here. That was different from when I needed this liposuction in 2026 or sorry, 2016. And so she recommended you. She did not recommend Kybella for me. And I had spoken to two or three other plastic surgeons about lipo right there when I went to go get my breast reduction and scar revision. And he said also, like it was more of a genetic issue that he.

[B]

Deeper structures.

[A]

Yeah. That he didn't feel comfortable doing lipo. And then I did two virtual consults that also said that I probably wouldn't be a candidate. A candidate for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Lipo.

[B]

Right. So yeah. So what you're talking about. So we see a lot of patients that come through interested in facial and jawline contouring options. And so for me as a surgeon, you know, I need to determine what areas of the face and neck can benefit from, you know, surgery, which usually is the most definitive. So facial jawline contouring in general, they can be non surgical or surgical procedures that can help add definition to the face, restore contour. They can either add to or subtract from the face and neck. In your case, you want to do something that's subtractive. So with Chin liposuction. This is more geared towards patients, you know, younger patients, let's say in their 20s or 30s, that have good skin tone. And it's mainly just bulk of the superficial fat here in your case, where you already had chin liposuction. And let me ask, did you see a good result or just, you know, a little bit?

[A]

I was really happy with my liposuction results. But again, we're talking 10 years ago and they had five more kids, right?

[B]

And then just think the aging process or when we develop, you know, laxing in bulk here is due to time, you know, the. The process of aging, environmental factors as well as genetics. And I will say, you know, you having seven kids, I'm a mom myself. You know, our kids put a lot of stress on us, like going through the process of getting pregnant, having children. Right. We have all these changes. We have hormonal changes as well. So ultimately, when I saw you, it would. It just wasn't about, you know, bulk of that superficial fat layer. You know, I was seeing bulk of the deeper struct. So this is below this muscle layer we call here the platism muscle. And, you know, you showed this during your surgery. So bulk of deeper muscle fat and then glands, especially out here laterally. So a lot of these structures, they're either bulky due to genetics or they do drop with time. And these are structures that don't fluctuate with weight change. You know, again, it's associated with genetics and the process of aging. And then I also remember as well, we talked about your. Your jawline. So I think we could have gotten a really nice result just with neck lift alone, where, you know, it's just the work here, but it does stop in the jawline area. And I did show you a patient where she only had the neck lift, and you could tell she still had some fullness here because we did not resuspend the tissues here, which is what the facelift can do. And actually, the facelift helps to give the most vertical lift from the neck lift standpoint as well. Think the muscle like layer here, this mass muscle connects with this muscle layer. And ultimately the face of pulling up can help pull the neck as well. And I remember you specifically saying at your preoperative visit, well, no, I want the most jawline definition here. So I'm okay with pursuing the facelift as well. But something important to mention. I remember when we talked about buccal fat removal, what was. What were your thoughts, you know, on that? You know, you had reservations about we ultimately didn't do that with your surgery.

[A]

So I know that the jaw part of the jawline thing for me was the jowling. Just for the viewers and the listeners, I want to just explain that it's genetic. For me, that's something that happens in my family. My mom had it, my grandma had it, my great grandma had it. There was no. You weren't going to be able to fix those jowls with just the neckline. Right. And then for the, the buckle fat. I just was a little nervous. I didn't know if it would be counterintuitive with what I was trying to achieve to remove it. And then as I age, it almost backfires.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was a little nervous about that.

[B]

Or causes you to eat, look more older later. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I think it's, you know, since the pandemic, it has been a trending procedure, especially in younger patients. It is permanent, you know, to add more contour. I think if you had been agreeable to it, you know, it can help with some more contour here. I usually talk with patients if they look at their parents and they see their faces still retain volume here with time because there are facelift patients where it helps to reduce the fat pads here as well. But in the day, you know, for your aesthetic, for your goals, it's just an add on procedure. You know, I tailor it to every patient. You know, I do think it was important that we did the face of a necklace together to get the best jawline contour results. But I do respect, you know, you know, not to be overly aggressive with the approach and, you know, respect your, you know, a set of goals and your level of comfort of what we wanted to do, you know, or not do. You weren't going for a more aggressive result.

[A]

So I better just double check if I need it. So, like, would it just pull?

[B]

Yeah, if you can just sucking your cheeks a little bit in, that's the result there. And the good thing about it is that we can always talk about it later. It can be done under local anesthesia like a dental procedure. So at least like, you know, I'm glad that we just didn't do the neck lift and we're sitting here today, you know, and you're wishing that you had more jawline contour definition. You wish you didn't see the residual jowling as much. So I do think it's, you know, some procedures go hand in hand, which is important. Like for my older patients, sometimes I recommend a brow lift. As well, just to extend everything that we've lifted and resuspended here so that there's not bunching here again, you're a younger patient. You don't obviously need a brow lift right now. But here, at the end of the day, how about an upper bluff? An upper bluff? No. So I think, I think I'm a surgeon again who focuses on beautiful natural results. We can't obviously tell what we did together. You look refreshed, you feel good. So maybe call me again in, in five to 10 years. But, you know, I think sometimes less is less is more. Right?

[A]

You think everybody's nodding.

[B]

I'm like, so I think you have good eyelid show. You know, there some fullness there. I think we have some time, especially if the neurotox injections give a little bit of lift.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I do, I do respect that you are, you take more like, conservative approach at first, obviously with consideration for your patients and what they want. So that was really nice for me. And I don't know, I was a little nervous because I think I'm your youngest patient to ever have this done.

[B]

Correct. So I would say it's a trend now, I think, for patients on average as young as in their late 30s to 40s to pursue a more definitive procedure like facelift and necklace surgery. I think we're in a trend where, whether you can call it like prejuvenation, so patients, whether they've done some non surgical treatments, they see a limitation to that or they kind of want to skip that. They would just want to, you know, and they notice they have earlier signs of aging based on their genetics to, you know, get to the definitive procedure. Now, even though it's permanent, you still continue to age with time, but I'm hoping to give you 10 to 15, you know, 20 years. So I think before you had a patient in her mid-30s that we did a facelift necklace, I will say I had a patient where she was pregnant when she came to us for consultation. And three months after she had her baby, we did a comprehensive global facial rejuvenation surgery. But I think in your case, just as you mentioned, your genetics and you know, you've gone through a number of changes in your body associated with having kids. You know, so it may seem like a very drastic procedure to do, but I think it is. It was the most definitive. And, you know, you still look like yourself. You look, you know, great. It's all about just like resetting.

[A]

I look back at the pictures and videos of my face before I had surgery. And I knew it was bad. Like, I. I hated it. I knew I. And I wish I could stress. I wish I had pictures of my family members, but I would not do that to them. It was so. It was genetic because they all had it. But when I look back, I'm like, it was so much worse than I felt like it was at the moment. Like, in. In real time, when I was, like, joking around about how I was getting my double chin cut off. Right? I. I didn't. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad. And so now when I look at my face in the mirror and then I look at the videos, I'm like, oh, I needed that done actually five years ago. Like, I wish that I had done it sooner, which is a crazy thought, because I never do. You get what I'm saying, right? Like, it. Usually I feel like you're like, oh, like, it wasn't that bad after the fact. But now looking back, I'm like, no, it was worse than I thought.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So I'm. I am so happy with my results. And I. In the recovery process, you couldn't have paid me a million dollars to do it again, but now that I'm out of it, I would do it 10 times over. Let's be honest. If a routine takes longer than five minutes, it's not happening. Especially if your name is Kale. That's why Merit Beauty believes great makeup should be effortless. And I can attest to that. They're clean. Thoughtfully curated essentials help you get a fresh, polished look in minutes. And they have products that you can actually swipe on and blend with your fingers. I have been recently doing a lot of makeup in the car. Okay. It's busy. We don't have time at home before I'm taking the kids here, there, and everywhere. So this makes it a less is more situation turned into something so much more than that. It's super convenient. Mornings don't have to take forever. And that's why the minimalist from Merit lets you get a polished, natural look in literally five minutes. Merit is a minimalist beauty brand that makes elevated makeup and skincare designed to help you look put together in minutes. Like I was saying, and I'm telling you, these last couple of weeks for me have been an absolute nightmare until I started using Merit, because I can just swipe it on in the car. If you want a no makeup day, that's fine, because Merit's great skin serum is all you need. It instantly hydrates and plumps all your skin for a fresh, dewy look, which is something I love. I'm a big dewy fan, girly. And the best part of Merit products is that they're clean, vegan and cruelty free. They're made with nourishing skincare ingredients and they'll leave your skin looking better long after you take your makeup off, which is also important to me. It's time for your makeup and skincare to meet the reality of your day to day routine with Merit Beauty. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering my listeners their signature makeup bag with your first order@merit beauty.com that's me. R I T beauty.com to get your free signature makeup bag with your first first order merit beauty.com let's be honest, if a routine takes longer than five minutes, it's not happening. Especially if your name is Kale. That's why Merit Beauty believes great makeup should be effortless. And I can attest to that. They're clean, thoughtfully curated essentials help you get a fresh, polished look in minutes. And they have products that you can actually swipe on and blend with your fingers. The minimalist from Merit lets you get a polished, natural look in literally five minutes. And I'm telling you, these last couple weeks for me have been an absolute nightmare until I started using Merit because I can just swipe it on in the car. Are. If you want a no makeup day, that's fine because Merit's Great skin serum is all you need. It instantly hydrates and plumps your skin for a fresh, dewy look, which is something I love. I'm a big dewy fan, girly. And the best part of Merit's products is that they're clean, vegan and cruelty free. They're made with nourishing skincare ingredients. It's time for your makeup and skin care to meet the reality of your day to day routine with Merit Beauty. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering my listeners their signature makeup bag with your first [e-mail] that's M-E-R-I-T beauty.com to get your free signature makeup bag with your first order. Meritbeauty.com okay, we have been recently just researching all the vitamins and I have a game changer for you which is biological. Okay, I just ordered the primary essentials and this is the chastberry and B complex. But the main botanical here is Afron at 28 milligrams. So in double blind placebo controlled trials on mood and emotional well being, this compound produced statistically significant improvements in tension, stress and mood. The 22 milligram dose in the same study did not. So I'm here to tell you that if you are looking for something that has flavor, super easy to use and has positive physical changes like your sleep, bloating, skin and hair, positive mental changes like mood, energy and more patience, you need to try Biologica. And again, I just got the primary essentials. I gifted someone midlife essentials because I know what I struggle with and I wanted my friend to experience this as well. So head to biologica.com famous to get started. Take their quick hormonal life stage quiz to find the formula that's right for you. And right now subscribers can receive up to 32% off their purchase. Again, go to biologica.com famous and get up to 32% off your first subscription order today.

[B]

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[A]

Did you remove skin from my neck?

[B]

A little bit. But we were able to keep the neck lift incisions just behind the ear. So just some, you know, skin removal but because you had pretty good skin tone still. And you'd be surprised even my older patients when we do a complete facelift. And with my approach it's not about the skin removal, it's about addressing the deeper structures to resuspend the tissues. That's what the deep plane facelift is about, especially these ligaments here that we release. And that's why a lot of patients notice more heaviness here and the jowling because these ligaments, you know, are static structures. And then we have more laxity that occurs here more immediately in the face. So by releasing these ligaments then it's a nice, you know, resuspension and putting just tacking stitches gently. It's not about really getting the tightest result. Some of the older, more traditional techniques, if you hear about like SMAS facelift or highest mass lava fast, it's more just about pulling back here or sometimes the mini facelift approach, where it's just working on the skin and maybe putting some tacking stitches. I've seen in, you know, some patients results when they're coming back for revision surgery. A mini facelift to me means many results. So that could mean that the results only last a couple years, five years. It's not as significant change or they are more pulled here and it actually can affect your scars that they look widened as well. So just some considerations there. So I'm kind of more like a, you know, all or nothing, you know, for a patient. If we, you know, if you need it, right, to benefit, to go into. Instead of say if I only offered a mini lift for you, you could have, you know, look more tight and pulled here because I didn't fully, you know, release everything here. And then the scars could have more tension here that you have. It looks, could more obviously look like you had a facelift.

[A]

My scars are great. I healed really well. You can't even tell that I had work done. I feel when you're saying that these like resuspending and what was the other word?

[B]

Release of the ligaments.

[A]

Release of ligaments and resuspending things, ligaments, what does that actually mean? Is there any way to keep them tight so that nobody has to get these things done? Or is that part of the genetic thing where it's like they're loosening or tightening or whatever that is that's causing the jowling and the drooping?

[B]

Right. It's just the, the course of like we all have these ligaments that tether tissues and then just again, based on environmental factors and your genetics and gravity. Right. Tissues pull down. So I do think there's value to non surgical treatments, whether it's, you know, skin tightening or a little filler to restore volume, you know, if done, you know, judiciously to help slow down that process. But ultimately, you know, there is that role for surgery to be able to definitively, you know, reposition tissues, reset them, you know, so that we have a more contoured, you know, or refreshed appearance again and again to reflect the person on the inside.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

You know, still have a lot of energy chasing after kids and such, so.

[A]

Oh, when my daughter accidentally headbutt me right after I got my surgery right here. Oh, that was rough. That was brutal. And I was like, honestly, that's probably why my lip is paralyzed, because it was adding swelling insult to injury. You know what I mean? But I, my results came out great. But that recovery process was, was really difficult for me. People constantly ask me and today when I put up on the, on social media that I was having you on the podcast, I asked for what questions that people had for you and one of them was is there a way to achieve my results without getting surgery? And I almost threw my phone across the room because I'm like no. Like no, you cannot have what I had and get the results I have without surgery unfortunately. And I mean that sucks because nobody really wants to spend the money but. Or go through the recovery. But it would. You can't. There's just no, I would have done it if I could.

[B]

Right, right. No, I agree. Especially you need. We needed to subtract here. Yeah. Even a non surgical treatment like Kybella only does so much and again it's. It only targets the superficial fat like chin liposuction. Again, you're a good example of showing the limitations of what chin liposuction did and then we can do non surgically is just address the skin and the superficial tissues to do some tightening, some lifting and that's the limitation.

[A]

Can you talk about what Kybella is and how that could be. Some people could be a good candidate for that.

[B]

So it is a, I guess you could call like a sclerosing agent. So it's something that is an injectable but can actually cause a permanent change. So it's not as controlled as compared to when you perform chin liposuction necklace where you're you know, having a sense of what you're reducing looking at the structure. So by injecting, you know, this agent, what it can do is actually permanently take down the fat, but only the superficial fat. Right. It's not going to address deeper glands, muscles, fat or even muscle laxity if you have those issues. So for someone who is otherwise a good chin, chin liposuction candidate, someone who's a younger patient and it's just some fullness here due to the fat, they could consider this. I do caution patients, usually you need at least three treatments based a month up part. So sometimes the cost can add up and maybe more expensive than chin liposuction. The patients can have bullfrog swelling after each treatment. That can be a little uncomfortable or make patients feel more self conscious. And there's a risk of temporary lower lip weakness if that nerve, there's some swelling, you know, or accidentally dinged with the injection. As a surgeon I caution against this just because I like to be definitive and do more than one and done procedure. I also caution patients, patients who've tried Kybella and then they do surgery. Their anatomy is now altered a lot of times there's a good amount of scarring there. When I go in to lift the layers or whether I'm doing chin liposuction or neck lift, that can make the procedure a bit harder.

[A]

Interesting. I don't think I knew that either. I, I think I briefly considered Kybella and then Tanya was like, no, but I think that's how it went. I can't remember.

[B]

Right. And if you're not a good candidate for it and then you try it either, the results can be conservative out that cushion of fat which can nicely keep the results softer for a longer term. If we're doing like a deep neck lift can make you have more like a turkey neck appearance because now if you have laxity of the muscle bulk, the deeper, deeper structures that weren't addressed and now they are coming, they're showing through more because that fat is gone.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's a consideration there.

[A]

So definitely consider. For anyone listening if you're not watching this, if you're listening, definitely just check all your options. You can get a consult for Kybella, you can get a consult for liposuction. You can get a consult for deep, what is it called?

[B]

Deep neck lift.

[A]

Deep neck lift. I also am like nervous to say that I got that because I am so young and I don't want to give people the wrong idea. But I genuinely and I feel like you could speak to this. I know we've said it a hundred times already, but like it, there was no way to get this any other way for me. Right.

[B]

And as I mentioned for deep neck of surgery, I'm doing it in patients as you know, in their 20s, just from a genetics standpoint, especially those with smaller chins and jawline and they have, have some fullness here just to reduce this to help improve the, the profile. So I can review like save someone who's bothered by lack of jawline definition. So some non surgical treatments we can consider include filler to enhance the jawline, enhance chin projection. But if you have a lot of bulk here, it only does so much. Right. Because sometimes again thinking subtractive versus additive when it comes to contouring to reduce this here and then you know, to target this area. It just depends on what issues here in terms of the structures here. If it's just superficial fat, we can talk about Kybella or chin liposuction or otherwise deep neck lift surgery. And then you can also think about from a permanent standpoint to enhance the jawline chin implant genioplasty, which is a surgery I don't perform, but just to really bring out the jawline for those patients who have a weak chin.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know that was a thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can we talk about my lower lip weakness?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

After my surgery, I got my surgery August 12, 2025, and it was, you know, obviously pretty quickly apparent that I had some lower lip weakness. And it did last several months. Obviously, I was super concerned and upset about it. But that is a possibility, which Dr. Ho went over with me in the paperwork. I don't think that I fully considered that. Obviously you told me about it, but I was like. Like, that won't happen to me, but it is a possibility and it can happen. And, you know, it was very upsetting to me because I'm seeing all the results that I love. And then my lip drooped and then we did. Was it called PRP or rpr?

[B]

Prp. We tried that once. Right. Where your blood was drawn.

[A]

Shortly after that, I will say maybe like a month or so after that. I don't know if that was a. If that was what worked. I don't know if it was time. I don't know if it was a combination. I don't care if it was a placebo effect. Regardless, about a month or six weeks after we did that, my. My lip fully recovered.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so one of the things that Dr. Ho was really, really adamant about me knowing was that it's a full year to recover from the procedures that I had done. So some people will see full results sooner, some people won't. Or you might see a fluctuation over the year of healing. But even now, we're what, eight months post op?

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

And I'm still going to see a little bit of fluctuation with if I'm eating too much salt or things like that. And so that's one of the things with the things that she did warn me about in recovery. And so all of those things are impacted and that can happen. So can you just talk about how, like, it. It does happen? It's not just me.

[B]

I always make sure, especially at the preoperative visit, to go over the possible risks.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because that's important. There's risk with any elective procedure or surgery. So one of them, the mo. The scariest, I would say, is possible facial nerve weakness. So you have your branches of the facial nerve that go across the face and the deeper structures here, here, like this. So as I mentioned, with a deep plane facelift approach. We are closer to these branches when we do the surgery. For my patients, when they're under general anesthesia, I do like to keep them as we called, not paralyzed. So in case if I'm near some of the nerve branches and they stimulate, then we know to stay away from these branches. So as I usually mention to patients, this nerve here to the lower lip that goes near the jaw is the one that is, you know, most commonly having some weakness. You know, after surgery. We quote about like less than 2%. You know, in the, in the literature, if I know I did the surgery safely, which I usually mention, the patients we see some weakness is usually due to swelling or inflammation around the nerves. It should come back with time.

[A]

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[A]

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Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment of 45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] I will admit as a surgeon, it is a bit of an anxious waiting game too. Right? Because sometimes for you as well, right? Because you know, there are a lot of things we can explain with science, you know, and sometimes we can't explain. Right. Because every patient heals differently. I did notice that, you know, you did have weakness early on, but I think I felt like it set in a little bit more maybe within that one one to two weeks. So sometimes that means it's just that swelling kicking in or perhaps not sure if you notice it after your daughter hit you in that area of it, it's seeming more persistent. So the average trajectory is about, you know, it could be weeks to months for it to come back. Back. Depends on the patient. The longest I've seen is more in the three month or so time frame, which is what in yours I think was three to four months of that weakness there. I think it was by the time around December.

[A]

December I still had it. It was somewhere in December that I. It was fully healed. So I got my surgery August 12th. So by December it was healing. It was. I don't. I wish. And I want to go through my camera roll at some point, right to Pinpoint when it happened. Right. But I just remember waking up and looking in the mirror and I was like, oh my God. Like it, it did get slightly better at between August and December. It. There was some improvement somewhere. But then I was like, okay, I. If I could convince myself that this is permanent forever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Any healing from here forward will be best. Right. Like will be a pleasant surprise.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I. You.

[B]

I think it's tough for you as well because you're on camera all the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, so it makes you extra self conscious to be aware of it, you know, versus a person who say just works with a computer, you know, more behind the scenes work. So it. I could sense that. Right. And all I can do as the surgeon is, you know, as I say to every patient, we're here for you. Right. To give feedback in case if anything gets worse or you know, you just want to check in sooner about it. I know we were texting about it, you know, sometimes like the injections, like doing little steroid or the a PRP injection because I know you felt a little bit more swollen. That can potentially help. And sometimes it really is, you know, vitamin T time, you know, whether between myself as the surgeon and as the patient where we have this little bit of waiting game we kind of take. And I usually try to mention as long as we see some improvement, it could be week to week, month to month. You know, that means that there's reassurance to me that it's going to come back, you know, and it depends on the patient. And then, you know, for you, I know Tanya was helping to do a little dysport on other side to help compensate, you know, in that, you know, air. So again, knock on wood. I haven't had any patients with, you know, permanent weakness. But you know, it is something, it's a, it gives like the real side that things can happen, you know, in terms of setbacks, you know, or, or issues that happen following surgery.

[A]

But 2%, meaning that happens to only 2%, like it's a rare side effect. Correct.

[B]

But that's also just what is documented. Right.

[A]

So I'm like, of course I would get one of the rare side effects. I thought you said that early on when it happen.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I'm like, no way. Like I must have misheard that I wouldn't get a rare side effect. Obviously, like that wouldn't happen to me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then it did. It is, this might sound weird, but it, it is, it is a little comforting to know that you were nervous as well. Because I felt crazy and I felt like maybe she's just trying to make me feel better, but like she's nervous too. But it is comforting to me to know that you, it's just like an anxious waiting game for you because you, you know, and you said it to me, you're like, I know. I did it in a safe way. Like, I know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I did everything properly. And so, I don't know, it's comforting to hear that from you now, you know, because it's like, surely I couldn't be the only one being this anxious about it.

[B]

Right? Yeah. And I'll be honest. Like, I had one of my earlier facelift case. She's an awesome out of town patient who's healed beautifully, but she had a more prominent weakness right after surgery, like he. Here in this area. And also, like nerves regenerate. Right. So that's, that's helpful as well. So, you know, we, we tried some of those PRP injections and you know, sometimes again, as a surgeon, building experience, you think, like, once I got to like, you get to a point, like, I couldn't go back into your face, you know, to, to, to diagnose or figure out, we just have to give it, you know, time. It's helpful as a surgeon when you have a patient who's understanding and with you with the process and communicating that, that helps make your job, you know, easier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, through it. But, you know, that's why it's, as I said, it. It's like a marriage. Right. Like we're in it together, you know, to get through it. And definitely no surgeon has a perfect record in terms of their surgical results. When you get more experience, you see, you know, things happen in your practice. I tend to see weird things that happen to my patients. Revisions happen. Right. If we need to do a small tweak or a major tweak. And, you know, usually what helps make me feel better as our surgeon, make my life easier. You know, sometimes the bigger issues happen with the nicest, most understanding patients. But they're great, right? And that they said, Dr. Ho. You. You told me, you know, this was a potential, that this could happen with apostle risks. And, you know, we're going to get it through it together, you know, and they have that trust there.

[A]

Yeah, no, I had the trust for you. I knew I picked my surgeon, you know, with my due diligence. I had, you know, recommendations. I did my research on you. I was never, I never blamed you for it. Right. But for me inside, I don't Think anyone could have fully prepared me for it. I think I was, because I'm, you know, in front of a camera all the time. It was so scary for me because I'm like, I just traded my double chin for a paralyzed.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, that's what it felt like. But I would just say, like, anyone listening or anyone watching this episode, do your research and vet your surgeon. And if you feel any inkling that something is off with your surgeon, don't go with them. I didn't have that with you. Like, I, I trusted you. Even though I was upset and anxious about it, I trusted that you know what you're saying and what we're doing is, you know, all the proper steps. So just know that it is a possibility. And even if it is a rare side effect at one or two, it can happen to you. Another thing that Dr. Ho mentioned was, you know, making sure that you're taking care of your mental health through the recovery. Everyone's recovery is going to be different. Right. We were just talking about Bunny. One of my friends got. She got more work done than I did. She's. She's talked about it online, so I'm not outing her in any way. And I was telling Dr. Ho that, you know, Bunny was on social media, I think like a week or two weeks after her procedure, and she's just living and thriving. I didn't have that experience. Mine was completely different. I was, was messed up. Like, I needed to be in therapy for several weeks before my surgery, after surgery, like immediately following my recovery. But some people don't need that. Right? But I think it's important to have all your bases covered and definitely get with your therapist or a mental health provider, because you don't know until you go through it how it will impact you. So it sounds good. You know, when she's telling me, you know, make sure you take care of your mental health, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I had surgery and then I was like, oh, wow. Like this is what this is. But that might not be the next person's experience.

[B]

Right. I don't remember. You had a good self awareness. You mentioned me. I can, I have anxiety, can be anxious. So I do think when a patient puts that out there, that's good. You know, that we're, we're honest about it versus after the fact. You know, when a patient shows signs that they're struggling, I mean, it's a, it's a big deal. I'm literally causing trauma to your face. Right. So it's A physical recovery. Right. With the swelling and, you know, getting through, we can talk about drains, dressing and such. And then just mentally, the changes that you're seeing, you know, there is like a. You know, they describe it, whether it's kind of an up and down process, whether it's. It could be. For some patients that first couple weeks, it could even be two to three months later or longer, just depending on, you know, even if they're on the outside looking great. But just that it's such a new change, you know, for that patient, that could be a big deal.

[A]

I also had. What was the pinching right here that I had.

[B]

Okay, so that's where. That's where where the facelift ends. Of course, as I mentioned, people get

[A]

facelifts to their foreheads.

[B]

That's a brow lift that, you know, would go with the face lift.

[A]

I did not have that. So my. All my work went from, like, here down. Right.

[B]

And that's where the incisions end. So that's why it's just where the facelift part ended. You know, if it was kind of a more residual issue, then you would have proved that it would have been helpful to have done, like, a lateral bre prowlif at the same time. But as, you know, just with time, it settled out again. It's just where the facelift part ended. And, you know, this is the part that we didn't do surgery.

[A]

So after surgery, I did have drains, and it was a lot harder to. I've had cosmetic surgery before, as you know, as everyone knows. And so I'm not a stranger to kind of looking in the mirror and seeing Frankenstein. Right. And so the drains. I've only had one surgery before this where I had drains, and it was my tummy tuck in 2016. I never actually had drains for my augmentation or my. Like, some of my other procedures. And so that one was hard. And then your face is all wrapped up, and I'm at the hotel right next to Dr. Ho's office, and I'm just holding the drains, and I'm walking in the shower, and Ike has to shower me and do all the things. And so just prepare yourself for that. And then you. They fill up. Right. And so what exactly are the drains? Drains. Draining.

[B]

So, yeah, so not all surgeons use drains. I just prefer just more traditional and that they do help collect fluid, help you heal faster, especially when I'm doing a good amount of work here with the sculpting. So they're plastic tubes? Yes. They can be annoying for patients. I don't think I have any patients who love having them, but I place them. You know, usually for a facelift neck, there's two, one on each side. One is just more underneath the skin, the other one's deeper into the deeper neck structures. So I ask the patients during the night after surgery to, to record them, one to empty them one to two times a day and record how much is the output. And once the output is low enough, then we can start to remove the drain. So can be, you know, closer to two to four days out, sometimes closer to a week out if there's more fluid that's lingering.

[A]

I think ours was within the week that we took them out. Right. If I remember correctly, between diets, workouts and endless advice, it's hard to know what actually works for you and what's worth your time. But that's why hers offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP1 medications that now includes the Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen. So with Wegovia at hers, you can lose up to 20 more of your body weight. When combined with diet and exercise, this helps you regulate your appetite, eat less and keep the weight off. WeGovy is the first ever GLP1 pill for weight loss, so there are no needles necessary. Everything here is 100 online. Through hers, you'll connect with a licensed provider who will determine if treatment is right for you. And if you're prescribed, your medication is delivered straight to your doctor door. No insurance necessary. And it doesn't stop there. Weight Loss by Hearst goes beyond medication and they offer access to 24.7 messaging with your care team and tons of in app lifestyle and nutrition tips like recipes, meal plans, fitness videos, sleep content and so much more. So if you're ready to reach your goals, visit for hers.com famous to get personalized affordable care that gets you. That's F O R h e r s.com famous for hers.com famous weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as to get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit for hers.com I don't want to scare anyone because like I said, I would do this ten times over, but hard time eating after my surgery and at one point I think that because I was having a hard time eating and then taking my medicine, I ended up having to throw up, which was horrendous. Trying to throw up after a neck and facelift was probably the Most horrendous thing I've ever had to do. And so just listen to your doctor. If you have to eat applesauce, do that. Do not go to Pizza Hut and try to eat a pizza. Do not do that.

[B]

Is that what you did?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, good thing I didn't hear about it until now. Just like when I have occasional patients who say, how come I have jawline swelling in the admitted they had a. A burger the night before.

[A]

But to be fair, Dr. Ho, it was a personal pan pizza and it was so soft that I thought that I was okay because it was so soft.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The problem was that it was. I. My head was taped up and so I couldn't chew it properly and I cutting it up. But that's not good enough. You still have to chew. So listen to your doctors because they are looking out for your best interest. And I don't want you to throw up because that hurts. Hurt. Dr. Ho's medical assistant, Emily. We were just chatting before the recording, and I was talking to her about sodium. Before my surgery, when my face was a little bit bigger, I had more neck bulk and the jowling and stuff. I never noticed any swelling on a regular day. When I'm eating sodium. Now that my jawline is snatched, I notice it on a regular day. Like if I eat too much sodium or something like that, I notice like swelling in my neck. Right. And so I just think that one, people should look out for that in real life if you don't have plans to get any facial surgery. But two, like, why does that happen?

[B]

It's a good question. I think in your case, because you used to have more fullness, more bulk there, that essentially camouflage kind of like the fluctuations and swelling. So now that you know, you have less volume here and swelling can occur more at the superficial level in the the skin and the deeper tissues there. So ultimately, like I like to stress the patients, of course you have to live your life. But it is helpful going into surgery and, you know, recovering from surgery to optimize diet in addition to following the wound care. So I think about in general healing from facelift and neck lift surgery. So you worse of the swelling is usually up to two to three days out. And then a lot of that comes down the first couple weeks. I usually say by a month out, feeling more socially presentable to go out to dinner with friends. But then those first three months, there are fluctuations in swelling. Some patients with thicker skin or tissues like yourself, could be more fluctuations closer to six months, and then typically three to Six month period is more like that gliding phase where there's less fluctuation, swelling, you're seeing more of the results there. But this can be affected by how inflammatory you are as a patient, whether in general issues like say stress, lack of sleep, diet as well. So whether eating more sugary foods, having more alcoholic beverages, salty foods. And it just helps to protect me as a surgeon if a patient says, hey, I'm feeling more swollen today or last week, let's talk about it. And see a lot of times we can pinpoint whether it's a recent diet change or something else going on that can. And whatever you can do to control those inflammatory factors will help you heal faster from surgery.

[A]

So basically, if you have seven kids, maybe wait until they're a little older because stress, lack of sleep and sodium. What is my entire diet? Diet right. Even right now. So I think that probably contributed to my, my struggle healing. But it was nothing that Dr. Ho did. So if you've ever heard me complain about it, it was me, like it was definitely me.

[B]

Right. And you just, you've come more understand, I think by the time when I saw your last visit six months out, you're looking great. So I think you're otherwise on par with the average, you know, the average healing process. And it just, you now just see, you know, and, and you don't make a big deal of it, right? Of just seeing from, you know, sometimes feeling more swollen. Just like for some like this area, like with the lymphatics, this can in general, whether you've had surgery or not, can be an area that's susceptible to swelling.

[A]

Well, I probably talk about my results once a week still. Like, I don't know if I'll ever fully like I want to accept, right. Like this is my face now. And I'm so excited because I never could see my job before. So it's been really, I love it. I'm so glad that I did it. So with the rise of glp with ones I've seen all kinds of things online between OIC face, OIC butt, OIC vagina, I've seen all these things. Can GLP1s impact the results from facial, facial plastic surgery?

[B]

So I would say from my more limited experience, just as one surgeon, I do think so. Like in general when I have patients, let's say again, we talk about this area and they feel like they want to lose weight, thinking that will help. But again as we talk about like genetics, environmental factors can influence this. I, I'm, you know, I don't agree with that necessarily, just weight loss would necessarily change an area significantly. But I do think with the weight loss medications, I've noticed in a couple of patients of mine who had facelift and necklift surgery and just had like a fuller face at baseline, but that the targeted weight loss they had actually affected their face as well. So one patient, maybe it was like one or two years out from her facelift necklace surgery, noticed volume loss in her cheeks. So we pursued facial fat transfer to restore some of the volume there. So with that consideration, just always think if you haven't had surgery yet and then you have the weight loss and it affects your face, just know that just like as if we took away the fat here, that it could expose the other structures that have become more lax due to aging, that then you need that surgery or other procedures to resuspend the tissues. If you do undergo a weight loss journey journey after having surgery, that yes, it can affect the, the shape or the volume of the face, you might need to do a procedure like facial fat transfer to restore the volume there. So and ultimately, if you're thinking about, you know, doing GLP1 medications, which are very prevalent now, we, we ask patients to stop them before surgery so that they don't have any issues with anesthesia. It's always good to just have a stable weight going, going in like a stable realistic weight going into surgery with the. And with the recovery process so that we can have the best realistic outcome for the face and neck.

[A]

You're not the first surgeon to have said that to me though. When I got surgery in 2016, that was one of the things that Dr. I had seen, Dr. Miami at that time, it was to be within 20 pounds of your goal weight. And then when I got my breast reduction, same thing, I got my breast reduction end of 2024. And that was another thing that they suggested was being within 20 pounds of your goal weight. One I didn't know it was for anesthesia at all. I thought that was more for like the results and to basically you don't want to get go get surgery and then continue to lose weight because then that impacts the results in your final

[B]

and I think that's look particularly important for body plastic surgery. Right. Because the fluctuations here, I think just, you know, for this, for me, it's from a health, you know, standpoint. And then I don't think like 5 to 10 pounds would really actuate here in the face so much. It's more just to make sure you're at a ideal healthy weight to go into surgery and recover. But if you are taking GLP1 medication, we do like for patients to stop that a couple weeks before surgery because they can actually delay your. Your stomach emptying. So it could affect whether you have nausea or any issues with the anesthesia itself after surgery.

[A]

But you can get facial plastic surgery after. You know, maybe someone's on a GLP1 journey, and then they decide they're at the. At their.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Where they're comfortable, and maybe they have saggy skin or, you know, whatever they're wanting to fix, they would still be potentially a good fit to get plastic.

[B]

Right. If they're not losing more weight.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Your end goal.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So, you know, ultimately, there's multiple ways of. Of doing it. And also we. The patients have to have real expectations as well. Some patients where I see that they have a lot of wrinkles in their skin and a lot of lax seed, their. There's only. Surgery can only do so much in terms of resuspending and resetting. Sometimes we need to do more, whether it's Botox, whether it's laser. So there is a limitation to surgery.

[A]

When you say wrinkles in your skin and things like that. People constantly tell me to stop filling my face, and I don't get filler. I think I did cheek filler one time, and then I've done lip filler in the past. I haven't in years. How does filler impact, impact surgery results? I know Bunny had a bunch of hers dissolved, so they had to use an ultrasound to go find some of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When you're looking at a patient during a consult and you're. You know that they have filler, or if you don't know they have filler, and then you get in there, can you see it? Can you take it out? How does that impact? Because dysport and botox is for the wrinkles, but the filler is for fullness.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Would you work around it, or does it impact results at all?

[B]

That's a good question. So ultimately, if I know a patient has a history of filler, and we know that they've had recent filler within the last year or so, they know that there's residual filler on their face. I would ideally like it to be reversed prior to surgery just to get them back to their native tissues as much as possible. It's okay. During surgery, if I do come across some filler, we either avoid it or take some. Some of it out. If it's like droplets of it in the tissues, it can affect the results, especially from a swelling and healing standpoint because filler draws in water if it makes sense. So it can make patients seem more swollen after surgery and affect that recovery process. To me, what can be more challenging is also history of like skin tighten procedures that address the deeper tissues. I've done a surgery on of a picture patient with permanent filler and that can really make it more challenging where tissues are more or even thread lifts where tissues are more scarred that they're more adhered together. So think different than to be able to peel those tissues up. It can be more challenging. I get more concerned if I'm going to be near a facial nerve branch, you know, so those considerations. So but in this, you know, today's age of doing plastic surgery, we have to accept that a lot of our patients have had other types of non surgical procedures, you know, going into surgery. So we do everything we can as much either whether it's diet, reversing filler to get the, to optimize, you know, our surgery approach and then we go from there as long as we can. We have a good discussion of what we can or can't do, you know, with surgery and possible risks and whether the risk could be higher for some patients. Then we feel like we can still do surgery safely. Then I think that's reasonable.

[A]

Can you confirm or deny that filler was or was not a problem for my surgery?

[B]

Was not.

[A]

Thank you. Just wanted that on the record because if someone tells I think that the other part of it is that people are still confused between the difference. Right between dysport and Botox and then filler.

[B]

And I think others may think that you, it may look like you have cheek filler now, but it's all about just because. Because we've shifted your tissues right with the facelift approach, you know, here, you know, to here. So it can give the illusion that you now have more volume.

[A]

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[A]

so before we get to all the questions on Instagram because there's a lot of good ones, one of the number one questions is how much does this cost? And just in full transparency, I did pay five figures for this and you probably will too. Dr. Ho has a ton of information and they, they can't. It's not a one size fits all. So if you go to her website and we'll put it in the bio as well, you guys can go get pricing and do a consultation and anything else you want to add on pricing.

[B]

Right. I think my sort of career Nicole would kill me you if if we were very transparent pricing. Of course it may change in the future so on our website we actually have a form you could submit photos to be able to receive customized pricing. We do provide a price range for all our surgical pro procedures on our website as well. So we are transparent in that way. But Nicole definitely can discuss more on the phone and have a a very in depth phone consultation and we can provide initial recommendations via looking at photos first before a consultation which I think patients are pretty appreciate.

[A]

Yeah for sure. No, it's. It's definitely helpful. There are some really good questions on Instagram right now, and some of them I also want to know. Going back to the fillers conversation, there is, you know, some stuff online, I guess we could call it discourse on like tik tok and stuff about fillers and whether or not they actually dissolve or not in your body. And so one of the questions says, do fillers give you saggy skin after it wears off? One, do fillers wear off? And two, do they give you saggy sag skin?

[B]

Those are good questions. So I still perform injectables my practice, including filler, mainly hyaluronic acid filler, which is the type that can be reversed with an injection. So if the filler injection is done, you know, in a safe and ideal aesthetic proportion, not overdone, right, to stretch the tissues, it should not be causing sagging when it goes away. Ultimately, filler to me, it restores volume and definition in the face, but. And has some lifting, but it's not going to do like what surgery can do to resuspend tissues. So if a patient had a conservative amount of filler, like not overdone, and they notice with time, it kind of acts like a band aid in some cases that then the sagging tissue that they're seeing is just associated with the aging changes in their face, you know, due to genetics or environmental factors. I usually, depending on the product that we use, use the fillers can last one to two years on average. And so, you know, that can be a time frame for when patients do repeat filler. But I have noticed, and this is an interesting, you know, conversation among injectors across the country internationally. But I have noticed in some of my patients that it's lingered longer than that, especially for areas like lips and tear trough filler where we don't expect it and that we do need to reverse if it's causing issues tissues like persistent swelling.

[A]

Okay, that's interesting because I think there was always this thought or, you know, this information online that like fillers go away and so then you like they. What is it called? Metabolize, right, that dissolve. Dissolve or metabolize down tissues. Is it true that they just migrate? Like they don't actually break down or

[B]

they do break down, they typically break down, but they could just linger longer than we expect, especially some of the bulkier tissues. So migration that can, can occur, I would say, in more areas that are more dynamic in the face, like say with lips. And especially if the fillers injected like A little bit too close to the border of the lip or sometimes again, this area is tough, the tear trough area where it can be prone to swelling due to the lymphatics there.

[A]

Okay, what surgery is a complete waste of time and money?

[B]

Well, that's a good, I thought that

[A]

one was good because I'm like, tell me. So I don't get it. But I'm, I'm always a big proponent on like. And again, this is not going to be for everybody. So if you're listening or watching, this is just for me. I don't want to spend money on temporary results over and over and over and over again. So for me, part of the reason why I came to Dr. Ho was because I had heard, oh well we can just inject your jawline. And then it was like, okay, well how many times am I going to have to do that? How much is that going to cost over time? So for me it makes sense to, to do one surgery, one recovery and try to have permanent results. So that was what was best for me. But some people don't want to do that. They want to do, you know, the, the filler or the contouring non surgically, which is fine. Everybody, to each their own. But what one would be a, a waste of time and money.

[B]

You think so? I would say yes. If you have fullness here due to bulk of deeper muscle fat and glands and maybe some laxity as well. I think potential, you know, money that's not invested well would be investing in jawline filler that could just add more bulk here instead of reduce. If you're not a good chin liposuction candidate and you pursue that instead of doing the comprehensive neck lift surgery and it could lead to results that either underdone or again leading to that turkey neck appearance. I also just think surgeries that are more kind of like fad, like or trying to push results that are not as aesthetically natural, whether it's like we occasionally receive a dimple plasti, consult lead patients who want to have a dimple or having more like the cat eye look. So I've appreciated kind of staying my lane, you know, to try to help patients achieve more natural results. Yes. Like kind of just a, whether it's the eyelid and brown brow lift, you don't, you don't need this. So I don't think you should be researching this. But there are patients who I'm coming

[A]

to hang out with Dr. Ho and we're going to do the cat eye and that'll be Our April Fool.

[B]

It's interesting my, my practice evolved where it is a destination for jawline contour. I do a good amount of injectables like filler to have stronger jawlines, but it's more mature in that many patients feel they, they just need chin liposuction, but they really need a necklace. Oh. Also, so I think for an older patient, mini facelift, mini necklift. To me that's a waste of, waste of money. You know, I'm all or nothing to get the, the most.

[A]

That's how I am. Yeah. I'm all or nothing in theory. If I take care of myself. How long should my results last?

[B]

I'm hoping for 10, 15, 20 years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

With the results, but it is possible

[A]

that maybe between 10 and 20 years I could need another one.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay. But that's not because of your work or maybe not something that I necessarily did, but more of time Gravity genetics. Okay. Okay. So upper bls are pretty trendy right now. I even considered one after my surgery because I didn't, I don't think that I really fully thought about it when I got my surgery done. Who is a candidate for upper BL and should I get one?

[B]

No, not yet. So I'm going to put my foot down on that. So I think, I think overall you have good eyelids show here. So candidate who a good candidate for upper eyelid surgery. Someone who feels the of heaviness of the upper eyelids. A common complaint is that when they put eyeshadow on, they feel like they feel tissue there or they can't see as much eyelid show there. So patients who develop heaviness laxity there. But you also want to make sure there can be a couple other surgery procedures that can be helpful as well. For a patient who actually that their eye aperture is not as open like it's like this. That they actually could benefit with an upper eyelid surgery or without it. A ptosis repair to help open the eye more like this. And then we also take to consideration the brow position because brows also descend with time. And heaviness of the brows can lead to heaviness of the eyelids as well. So there are a number of patients I need to counsel, you know, to talk about whether upper eyelid surgery alone is ideal or is it more a brow lift is helpful or both brow lift plus upper eye surgery and then the consideration of ptosis just repair.

[A]

I'm no stranger to plastic surgery and I've had surgeons tell me the first time, like, I don't think you're a Good fit for liposuction or, you know, I think we should do this and not this. Things like that. Have you turned people away and what do you say if people just want to keep going to a doctor until they find somebody who does it?

[B]

So, definitely, I think as a surgeon, when you are sort of as a younger surgeon, we're starting out, you're. You're eager to take care of patients. Patients. Build your practice, your portfolio of results. I think one of the hardest things to learn is to learn how to say no. Right. Especially in our business, we do elective procedures, we work on the face. And even just a matter of millimeters can make a big change. I think part of it is learning as a surgeon what you can do with your hands, if you can actually help achieve that result for the patient. And also, also are their expectations and goals aligning with what you can help achieve for them? Because there are some patients where, you know, there's body dysmorphia. You know, I have that or that, you know, that's prevalent, you know, among the patients that we see for consultation. And it's real. Right. So, you know, we can go into another topic, but like rhinoplasty, that is definitely a prevalent issue there. Um, it's the, to me, the hardest procedure in plastic surgery. Cause a matter of millimeters can make a big change. So ultimately, you know, we want to make sure is hopefully a patient doesn't seem too impulsive, you know, about surgery. So even if we feel like I can, you know, do something, you know, make an impactful change for them, but say if they're too impulsive or just personality fit, just something doesn't match, we do everything we can to try to screen for that. Because for me as a surgeon, I want to be with patients where, you know, they can trust me through every step of the process. And especially when there's a hiccup or when there's an issue or complication arises. Right. And they're understanding the process. And it's tough when you. You lose some of that. That trust or confidence, and then you have that extra layer, you know, of challenge there to try to get through the recovery and to optimize the outcome. So, yeah, sometimes it's tough. You know, I have a number of other wonderful colleagues, so sometimes if pat to see another surgeon for a second opinion or whether I don't feel comfortable with the patient or maybe even if I'm unsure. Right. Let's just, you know, we talked about, like, say something like ptosis repair. I don't perform that. If they could benefit from that procedure as well, I'd rather them see an oculoplastic colleague who can do both the upper eyelid surgery and the ptosis repair at the same time. And sometimes, you know, we have to say, you know, hopefully this doesn't come across as then other patients picking up on this. But if, you know, we mentioned, I just don't have the skill set to be able to help achieve, you know, the goals that you're hoping for. I do hope that patients who are reasonable, they understand, they also want a surgeon who's fully confident in helping them to achieve their, their goals. Right.

[A]

I don't understand. As someone who is not a stranger to plastic surgery, and I have had a lot of it, I, I respect when a doctor, when one doctor tells me no, I don't look for another one. I'm not doing it because I'm. It's not even necessarily for me about whether they have the skill set or not to do it. It's more for me, like, if you're telling me no, you're telling me no for a reason, Right. And I'm. I'm scared to find out what that reason is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if it's anesthesia or the results or I'm not a good. I'm not going to go look for a surgeon until they agree to do it. Because there is a reason why you're being told no. And so I laugh. But like I told Tanya for the past three times I went to get injectables, I want my, I want to get my lips done. And she's like, no. Like she doesn't want to do it because also that's her name on the work. So if I'm out here looking, my lips are fine. If I'm out here and get my lips done and I look crazy, that's her name. Same for you. If I'm joking around, I'm like, oh, I need an upper bluff. You're like, no, you don't. That's also your name on that. So it's like, you know, how much is too much. And I feel like if a doctor is telling you no, they're telling you no for a reason. And they're not going to not perform something that's going to put money in their pocket. They're not going to tell you no simply just to tell you no. Like, there's a reason they're telling you no because they could say yes and put money in their own pocket, but they're saying no. For a reason. Do not go look for five other doctors to, to do it. It's not worth it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Is that what you, that's what you were getting at?

[B]

I was actually going to ask just a follow up question. So I know something. You consult with other surgeons. If I can ask. What made you decide to go with me? My practice and the surgery that we

[A]

did together when we, the, the consults that I did were for lipo. And then whenever Tanya had recommended you, probably a year before we did it. And then I, I think I might have got pregnant again or something like that. I don't know. And so it didn't work out or I got scared. And then when I came in for like physically came in and I saw the work and then I checked your website and I was seeing all the results and then you had the little screen that like played a video, I guess it was of the before and after afters. All the results were so natural. Like, I didn't feel like my face was going to be like this and I was like, oh, like I can do. Because a facelift sounds scary, right? And a necklift sounds scary and it sounds like something for like older people. That's what we've always been taught, I feel. Or like you just feel like that's the stereotype. And so when I saw all your results and how natural everything looked, I was like, okay, I trust that you're going to be conservative where you can. I trust that you're going to have good results. And I can, I trust that you, you're going to not overdo it, I guess. And so all your results showed that your social media, the videos, when we talked about it, you were thorough. And I was like, okay, this is the one. And also you told me I wasn't a candidate for, for lipo, which I respected. And so because you could say, yeah, sure, let's do lipo, right? And then I'm not going to get the results that I want and you're not going to. I'm your patient. So essentially you're not getting the results that we want. So, yeah, I would say the entire experience from beginning to end was approachable. Like, I felt like I could talk to you about it, could express my concerns, I could talk to you about it. Anxiety, and then admit later that I ate a pizza. What products would you recommend to help maintain results?

[B]

It's a good question. So I'm a big proponent of having elastin in our practice and for our patients as a kind shout out to elastin so we incorporate that product for our surgical patients. So and I think you said you really like that product a lot. So it's concentrated arnica other wound healing properties. So we have patients apply it to their skin before surgery one or two weeks before to prep the skin and then the patients are applying on their incisions on their facial and neck skin after to help optimize healing, help with the swelling, any discoloration with the incisions. Another product that we use, I don't think we tried it with you is through invo aesthetics. It's another product with growth factors regenerating solutions to apply to the incisions in the facial neck skin to help patients heal faster, ultimately keeping the incisions moist, you know with additional Aquaphor Vaseline. We also use that elixir MD therapy with the cellular repair treatments to help with the lymphatic drainage and help minimize bruising and swelling. And then after surgery, now that we're seeing results that are more mature, we want to think about things that we can do to protect the investment. So to me skincare, medical grade skincare is the foundation to what we do whether it's non surgical or surgical. So I'll have you try couple other products from Alastin. One is the restorative product which is a good transition.

[A]

Also just want to reiterate medical grade skin care.

[B]

Right. So yeah we'll have you try restorative from Elastin. So that's a nice transition from the nectar for anti aging and then a good neck cream, you know, is good to protect the results.

[A]

Can people use these products that you're describing if they have not had facial surgery?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Y so you're saying medical grade skincare and you using good products whether you had surgery or not.

[B]

Right. So even just thinking about the eyelids, let's say you have been told you may need eyelid surgery at some point but you want to try something easier, less expensive. Regardless of having surgery or not or after you have eyelid surgery, I'm going to recommend a good eye cream, you know, regardless with it. So a good eye cream will help with tone and texture. Some of the pigmentation there I always talk about. So think about when you do facial rejuvenation. It's like as if you buy a house and to redo it. So doing the facelift necklace surgery, the bigger surgery that's like to renovate the major rooms on the inside like your kitchen, the bedrooms. And then now we want to think about the canvas, right. The outside of the House. So we want to think about repainting the doors, redoing the shutters, redoing the roof. That's like your medical grade skincare. Maybe some Botox.

[A]

I never used sunscreen on my face until I started getting dysport, so. And I started getting dysport when I was 28. So that's.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good preventative treatment to.

[A]

Yeah. Someone asked, do any over the counter products work for Lift and firm? No. Basically. Okay, there.

[B]

I would say there are some reputable brands like Olay Roc out there, but ultimately, like if you go to a reputable med spa practice or dermatologist practice or plastic surgeon practice, they'll be able to guide you to get on good. A good medical, medical grade skincare regimen.

[A]

Like, like they are pricey, but it's worth it. And you'll feel the difference too. I actually haven't because I had strep throat last week. So I haven't been on it for like a week or so. But you can feel a difference. I have this like rice water face wash right from Sephora. It's like over 60 bucks. I don't feel any difference. But when I do my medical grade skincare and I do my full routine and I actually stick to it, you can feel the difference every single day. Like you can feel a difference using that every day, even just touching your skin versus an over the count counter from a drugstore. And it sucks. I hate to be that person, but that's just the way it goes. Something for me that I, I'm not going to say this is, you know, a one size fits all, but for me it was probably best to not look in the mirror for the first little while because of my anxiety and because I did have the nerve weakness over here. I think that I played this game, this like mental game with my own self where it was like, like I was basically hurting my own feelings because I expected the results in seven to 10 business days. And that's not how life works.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if you're anything like me, if you listen to this podcast or you're considering plastic surgery, do your due diligence and really consider whether or not you need to have mirrors around you because I did not need to have mirrors around me for at least two weeks.

[B]

That's. Yeah, that's a good. And just a focus on, you know, as you're recovering back to the normal activities. Right. So whether you focus on your kids or starting to do working out out and such. So I agree with you. If you're kind of looking at your face a lot of time or nitpicking, then that does affect you mentally in terms of how you're healing. And especially when it's like day to day, you know, versus then eventually it's getting to week to month. Something else that actually came to mind. Again, this is from the surgeon's perspective of what I maybe didn't expect as much as really working with an influencer celebrity patient where so.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So basically no in a good way to Dr. Ho. So part of it, I think, was tough for me. Luckily, this happened after your surgery. Surgery that you then had that feature in People magazine. I think it would have affected me mentally more to have People magazine. There's a People magazine article where you.

[A]

Did I do an interview?

[B]

I don't know, but maybe you should talk to them.

[A]

They.

[B]

They said that you mentioned my name. I think they referred to the podcast where you mentioned you were going to get your neck chopped off. So.

[A]

Yeah, because that's what I thought I was doing.

[B]

Right. So. So, so after. Luckily this happened after because I think if you had this publicity before the. Then it'll probably put. Have put extra stress on me to deliver a great result. But so I. This is how words for it. So I talked to a resident that I work with. I'm a volunteer factor with Temple University, and she, and I know she doesn't listen to your podcast, but she mentioned another nurse mentioned, oh, Dr. Ho is doing surgery on Kale Lowry. And so then we tried to. Remember, our team tried to figure out like, well, how can we find this pot podcast? And luckily it was like the night after surgery that they published a People magazine article and that's how we were able to find the podcast clip.

[A]

What did I say?

[B]

Your neck chopped off. But okay. Luckily we're glad this happened after instead of before going into surgery. And then I went offended by what

[A]

I said because I.

[B]

No, it was just tough because then I went on vacation a couple weeks later and that's when you did your photo dump of all these pictures of you undergoing. So it was like, oh, I wish the facelift dressing looked a lot a little better. Like just things like that where it was just. And then we just didn't know that it came right. Like these pictures and with the dreams. And then Emily didn't know that she was becoming famous on social media because she was.

[A]

Wait, can I follow you? Okay.

[B]

She's actually, I guess went viral on TikTok for a certain post at some point.

[A]

Well, apparently I Went viral for not. I didn't mean. Was that upsetting. I didn't mean to.

[B]

It was just like unexpected. And then also because you didn't fully mention the surgeries you had, so I couldn't comment to say, well, she had a facelift.

[A]

I'm scared to butcher it, right.

[B]

And like, I'm your surgeon, so I wanted to keep that privacy unless you mention so. And then when you were saying like, yeah, I'm supposed to have permanent results in a month out, I was like, no, no, no, don't like say that. You know, just because it takes more time. And also just with the, you know, and remember I had said like, don't say, say your, your mouth. Paralyzed.

[A]

Paralyzed. You know, I'm sorry, doctor.

[B]

No, no, it's fine. It's like one of those things. Again, there's only so much we can do. But like, it has overall been like, you know, very good.

[A]

You have my full permission for your team to comment on what I had or like, correct what I, what procedures I got. I just, it was. Didn't want to. I. It was just a running joke.

[B]

It's just hilarious after the fact. Like, you're sitting there complaining that you can't open your mouth or brush your teeth. Teeth. You know, I think for the most part your followers, like can see it with a sense of humor.

[A]

I mean, getting my neck chopped off is very kales for me to say.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Just in like full disclosure was. It was. I didn't expect to be as swollen as I was for as long as I was. Which varies by patient. You know what I mean? So it's not a one size fit all. I was really struggling with how I looked after and so I can't put enough emphasis on it. I would do it 10 times over now that I'm eight months out. But in the moment, you're going to feel like. I didn't regret it though. Like, that's the craziest part is like of the experience. Like, even when I was in the trenches of the healing process where I was still swollen.

[B]

Right. I think having the lip weakness just made it tougher. Like just that in itself.

[A]

Yeah, but.

[B]

And you're again, you're a very visible person. Right.

[A]

And I'm so animated and I also. And like, if I can't.

[B]

You're active with your kids, right?

[A]

So yeah. And I think it's a lot.

[B]

It's your face, right? So like say you might compare it when you had your body surgeries. At least this could be, you know, more concealed well, not to worry. In a little bit we're going to show. We're do a little show your before pictures as well. Just to kind of show, you know, why it was worth the journey. But I just want to again, it was all good publicity when we're not noticing, like, why are we having a bunch of likes, you know, and followers on our account? And I was again on vacation again, I'm not again not used to that kind of spotlight. And I, I even like joked, I don't even follow you on tick tock. But why not? I'm just on a tick tock because it's just another beast.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. But when they're like, I would happen to see posts you make or posts about you, which I think were ridiculous of I think people are mean to me. Right. That people just would be like, like, well, I think Kayyen Lor got a facelift. And this is why, like just about that. Or again, like, you know, who you're dating and such. But just that it, like I didn't

[A]

sign up for this. This isn't my algorithm.

[B]

Right. So but it's overall been like, you know, really good.

[A]

Good. Okay. Okay. Overall.

[B]

And it's just funny to like run into whether it's my neighbor whoever. And like, oh, yeah, I didn't know that you did. And then again and then also being dubbed double double chin certified because someone who has a follower said because I think they misread double board certified, but I'm gonna go with double chin certified. It goes with snatch. Yeah. Jawline. It's a good, it's a good marketing term right. To, you know, so I. Getting your, your neck chopped off. I mean, it sounds like very aggressive, but I will go with it.

[A]

So it's funny hearing it so. No, no, because I was, I remember being in Harlem when we were working in Harlem and it was, was always. And one of the first things I said to Ike when we started dating, I said, you know, I'm getting my double chin cut off. And it was. I was doing this no matter what. But like, truly, go to Dr. Ho if you want your double chin cut off. Like, genuinely and truly just. She's the, the queen of double chin removal. Like, I don't. It was great. I don't know. I just. Why did I say that?

[B]

And again, the double chin is like in a more layman's term of like what you were bothered by.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So, so it makes. And I did chop it off. I guess

[A]

it's just funny hearing it from a doctor. Like I did chop.

[B]

I know. We're. We have an idea. We're trying to come with some T shirt ideas because, Nicole, like, if you want to. Where to say got my chin chopped off by. You have to put it on the

[A]

sticker so I can put it on my laptop.

[B]

That sounds good.

[A]

Yeah. Dr. Ho, chop my chin off. Yeah, well, you know, double chin certified. It's crazy. I love that.

[B]

And the feedback I've heard is that everyone says you look great. Like, what's happening? Whether they knew or didn't know you had surgery or the exact type of surgery, so.

[A]

So I'm just so thankful. Honestly, I'm so glad I did it. I'm glad that you felt like I was a good candidate for it, and I'm happy with my results. So thank you.

[B]

Just curious, has anyone who didn't know you had surgery or exactly what you had done, have they. They notice anything?

[A]

Yeah, no. People mention all the time and they're like, oh, they automatically assume I can got lipo. And I'm like, no, no, it's not lipo. I literally got my. My double chin chopped off. And I'll tell them I do my best. I'm like, I got a neck lift or something. I don't. I don't want to butcher it. So I just tell them to go to you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Cuz I don't know. Now I do. This is not a facelift. Like, it is, but it's not a good one. So the fact that people notice that I had work done but can't necessarily tell what it is is kind of. Of it's flattering because it's like, okay, I know I picked the right surgeon with the right results, but also like, it's not just lipo. It's. This is a facelift and a necklace.

[B]

Right? Yeah. Ultimate comment for me as a surgeon is someone notices you look great or more refreshed. Did you get more sleep? Did you go on vacation? Did you get hair done? But they can't obviously tell.

[A]

No, no, no, no. But if I tell them I had work done, which I do, I don't. I don't lie about it. I don't cover it up. They assume, you know, they assume it's lipo and I'm like, nope.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I'm happy with it. Thank you, Dr. Ho. Where can people find you on social media? Where can people find you on Tik Tok, Instagram, or wherever you want to be followed on socials?

[B]

Thanks so much for having me. So D R t I n a h o Dr. Tina Ho on Instagram and Tik Tok. Our website is www.doctortahoe.com.

[A]

thank.

[B]

You.

[A]

Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it. And we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on killlowry.com. and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon, because you might get it before everyone else. One of the biggest threats in your life are the ones you don't see coming. We may be raising the first generation

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