Employment Law with Paige Sparks

Summary

Barely Famous — Employment Law with Paige Sparks (June 26, 2026)
Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Paige Sparks, Missouri Employment Attorney & Social Media Influencer

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Episode Overview

This episode features a lively, uncensored conversation between host Kail Lowry and Missouri-based employment attorney Paige Sparks, who is also known for her popular legal TikTok videos. The pair explore the realities of employment law, dissect recent high-profile lawsuits, address the challenges of being a woman and influencer in law, and swap stories about social media, litigation, and navigating both legal and internet drama. The episode is packed with practical insights, legal myth-busting, viral case breakdowns, and unfiltered laughs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet Paige Sparks: The Social Media Lawyer

[02:02 - 03:52]

• Paige gives background on why and how she started making legal TikToks—explaining that while she can't give specific legal advice online, she uses her platform for legal education.
  • “I do informational legal videos. I put the disclaimer on everyone because the one time I didn’t, they are on my ass, man... Other lawyers will report me.” —Paige [02:56]
• She discusses pettiness within the legal community: “We can always make time to be petty assholes. I mean, that's like our favorite thing to do.” —Paige [03:26]

2. AI, Copyright, and Likeness Claims

[03:55 - 04:54]

• Kail reveals her book was used in an AI training dataset, prompting a class-action lawsuit and a notice she might be paid damages.
  • “The payout was like $1.5 billion. I said, I'll take it all.” —Kail [04:34]
• Paige notes authors may also make "likeness claims" if their persona or identity is used, not just their text.

3. Paige’s Path to Employment Law

[05:07 - 07:34]

• Paige initially wanted to be a prosecutor, but after shadowing, realized it wasn’t for her.
• She candidly shares being fired from her first job for “not controlling her mouth,” then discovering employment law after sending out 200+ job applications.
  • “I flew under the radar. I was the best employee... and then one day it was targeted at me and I was like, you're not talking to me that way. And I was instantly fired.” —Paige [06:28]

4. Employment Law 101 for Regular People

[07:34 - 08:22, 09:19 - 10:10]

• Many people don’t know employment law exists or that they have viable claims until it’s too late—key deadlines, like Missouri’s 2-year statute of limitations, are strict.
• Most employee-side employment lawyers (like Paige) work on contingency; upfront retainers are a red flag.

5. Sexism, Social Media, and Credibility as a Young Female Lawyer

[08:52 - 09:19]

• Paige faces skepticism due to her gender and her social media presence: “I think there are a lot of lawyers that think I’m dumb because I do stuff like that, I think...it’s a double whammy.” [08:57]

6. Inside the Legal Content Creator World

[15:03 - 18:10]

• Law firms, Paige says, are paranoid about lawyers doing social media: “Lawyers are the most insecure people you will ever meet.”
• Initially, her firm warned against her online content, but when business began coming in, she got “a little longer leash.”
• Social media was Paige’s pandemic pivot to survive professionally, especially during networking lockdowns.
• Myth-busting: For instance—employers can’t tell employees not to discuss pay; Paige enjoys dispelling these rumors on TikTok and via Q&As.
  • “I just started doing like, kind of myth busting almost…” [18:12]
  • “If people want to make their own content... You can’t just do the same thing once. Like, I do that topic maybe once every two weeks.” [18:40]

7. Viral & Celebrity Legal Cases: Hot Takes & Insights

a. The Blake Lively/Justin Baldoni Lawsuit

[19:13 - 23:29, 32:35 - 34:07]

• Paige unpacks why public opinion skewed against Lively, the realities of retaliation claims and the power of PR smear campaigns.
  • “You can be unlikable and be sexually harassed and retaliated against and discriminated against.” —Paige [19:42]
  • “Read those text messages. They are so damning. I don't know how everyone has overlooked that...I've said from the beginning that retaliation claim was the strongest one.” [20:02]
• Surviving summary judgment in federal court is huge: “So the fact that her retaliation claim survived that... that's a win for her as a litigator, because that is not normal.” [32:48]
• The unusual joint settlement statement is “almost an admission of liability” by Baldoni’s side.

b. Stefon Diggs’ Legal Mess

[24:45 - 27:29]

• Summary of the many overlapping cases involving the NFL star and his live-in chef, including assault, unpaid wages, and workers comp claims.
• The messiness (“no one prepped her for that trial!”) and how civil and criminal cases intersect.

c. Celebrity Lawsuits and the Influence of PR

[35:14 - 36:22]

• Depp/Heard, Amber Heard’s public downfall, and musings about hidden PR operations and double standards.
• “If you were the richest man in the world, it wouldn’t matter. There’s a song about that—Taylor Swift wrote a song about that.” —Paige [36:30]

d. Afroman Sues the Police—with Music Videos

[47:22 - 50:13]

• Hilarious breakdown of how Afroman responded to an unjustified police raid by using the footage in viral music videos. When police sued for “likeness,” they lost, as there is no expectation of privacy for officers executing a raid.
  • “Genius. ... He just came to my hometown. ... Everyone brought him lemon pound cake.” —Paige [48:54]

8. Law, Social Media, & Harassment

[44:26 - 46:26]

• Kail asks about T Pages, defamation, and harassment.
  • “If it is your opinion...that’s my opinion, I’m not saying [it’s fact]. There’s a very fine line in the wording of the statements.” —Paige [45:13]
• Lawsuits for harassment can be both civil and criminal; sometimes, prosecution is possible with the right documentation.

9. Burden of Proof, Motivating Factor, and Legal Strategy

[38:45 - 40:47]

• Paige explains “motivating factor” vs. “contributing factor” standards in employment discrimination. The burden of proof falls on the accuser (plaintiff).
  • “We have to prove that was the reason. So it’s really hard now.” [39:14]
• Law changes have made employment cases harder for workers.

10. Bots and the Manipulation of Public Opinion

[40:30 - 41:13]

• Paige describes seeing bots flood comment sections with anti-women, anti-victim messaging, linked to PR smear campaigns: “If we make a post, we get flooded with the exact same phrase...to spin public opinion.” [40:48]

11. AI, ChatGPT, and Legal Safety

[64:46 - 66:21]

• ChatGPT and Google history are subpoenaable—never put confidential legal discussions into AI platforms, as privilege can be waived!
  • “If you put that in chat GPT, you are fucked.” —Paige [65:15]

12. True Crime: Infamous Cases Old and New

[53:14 - 63:45]

• Paige discusses statutes of limitations, technicalities, and why alleged abusers sometimes evade justice (Cosby, Diddy, R. Kelly).
• Menendez Brothers and Gypsy Rose: Abuse backgrounds, differences in their cases, and rehabilitation debates.
• O.J. Simpson: “I think the glove thing was genius. ... That was a master class on lawyering.” —Paige [59:48 – 60:18]
• Modern expectations for crime-solving: “Why are you bringing your phones to do it? ...The cars have computers in them now too.” [61:18 – 61:24]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Legal Industry’s Pettiness:
  “Lawyers are the most insecure people you will ever meet.” —Paige [15:17]
• On Social Media Backlash:
  “You say, don't do it again. I hear it. Do it again.” —Paige [16:24]
• On Women in Law:
  “There are a lot of lawyers that think I’m dumb because I do [social media]...it’s a double whammy going on.” —Paige [08:57]
• On Federal Lawsuits:
  “Surviving summary judgment as the plaintiff...that’s the scariest part...so the fact that her retaliation claim survived that...let’s let the jury decide.” —Paige [22:23]
• On AI Waiving Privilege:
  “Don’t ever put legal questions in there...it waives the privilege...you are fucked.” —Paige [65:15]
• On the Double Standard for Celebrity Men:
  “If you were the richest man in the world, it wouldn’t matter...Taylor Swift wrote a song about that.” —Paige [36:30]
• On Afroman and Lemon Pound Cake:
  “He just came to my hometown...everyone brought him lemon pound cake.” —Paige [48:54]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:02] — Introduction to Paige and legal TikTok
• [05:07] — Paige’s journey to employment law (and getting fired)
• [07:34] — Understanding employment law: timeliness, contingency fees, consultation pitfalls
• [15:03] — Law firms’ reaction to legal content on TikTok; mythbusting about discussing pay
• [19:13] — Deep dive: Blake Lively v. Justin Baldoni
• [24:45] — Stefon Diggs case: contracts, assault, workers comp, and courtroom drama
• [32:35] — Analysis of Blake Lively settlement, joint statement as “admission of liability”
• [38:45] — Burden of proof & standards in employment/discrimination law
• [47:22] — Afroman’s viral case using police raid footage in music videos
• [53:14] — Cosby, Diddy, statute of limitations, technicalities in criminal justice
• [59:48] — O.J. Simpson case: the glove, lawyering, juries, and trial strategy
• [61:00] — True crime today: digital footprints, the Idaho Four, Bryan Kohberger theories
• [64:46] — AI, ChatGPT, and privacy/privilege in legal work

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Closing Thoughts & How to Find Paige

Paige issues a very real plea:
“Please don’t ever call me...You can email me if you have any questions—paigesparkslegal.org. That’s where you can find me.” [67:47–68:17]

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Summary

Fun, fearless, and at times ferociously blunt, Paige Sparks brings legal know-how to the masses—debunking myths, decoding real-life viral lawsuits, and revealing the human side of both law and internet fame. This episode offers an equal dose of enlightening legal education and popcorn-worthy celebrity case breakdowns, making it a must-listen for anyone fascinated by law, pop culture, or social media drama. For those who haven’t listened, you’ll come away with practical insights into both your rights at work and how the legal machine works behind the most jaw-dropping headlines.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here seeing Kale in the flesh. Like, holy.

[A]

I feel like I've known you though. Like we came you, I came in the door and I feel like we've known each other for 10 years.

[B]

Well, good. Let's be best friends.

[A]

Well, tick tock. I could do a tick tock with that. There's like a tick tock. It's like, let's be friends. Best friends.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

I'm down.

[B]

I love TikTok. There's also one that's like, I'll have to look up the trend, but a lot of people tell me that we look alike, which I think you're the prettier version. No, I paid for this. No, you have like, I want.

[A]

I paid for this.

[B]

One of my best friends is a plastic surgeon. I'm like, look, Kale did it. Why can't you do that to me? And she's like, I want to facelift too. Yeah.

[A]

Wait a little while.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I had challenges.

[B]

So do.

[A]

I know. You don't.

[B]

But anyway, we should do that trend. That's like, we're not the same. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because people always say that.

[A]

Wait, okay, so you're an employment attorney in Missouri.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you cannot give legal advice on TikTok. But that's kind of what the premise of your social media is, right?

[B]

Sure. So I do informational legal videos. I put the disclaimer on everyone because the one time I didn't, they are on my ass, man. Like, all these other lawyers will report me and stuff. Why? Because. Because they're bitches. I don't know. Because they don't want to make their own videos, so they just want to come at me for doing it. Like, I once had a lawyer send me a 40 page PowerPoint how they thought I was violating the rules by even making those videos. Like, their lawyers are nuts. Like, it's like lawyer on lawyer crime constantly.

[A]

But lawyers have so much on their plate, or in theory have so much on their plate. Why are you worried about what another attorney is doing?

[B]

We can always make time to be petty assholes. I mean, that's like our favorite thing to do. So, yeah, like, we will make the time.

[A]

Are you serious? Yes. A PowerPoint is crazy.

[B]

Ye.

[A]

Like, I've been trying to work on the same pitch deck for like, three months.

[B]

So they had done a presentation, they sent it to me and I was like, thank you for your concern, but I don't think I'm violating the rules. And then they sent that to me. And then like, flash forward six months, they're making their own videos. And I'm like, that's all you had

[A]

to do to begin with. Yeah, just start your own videos.

[B]

I would have helped you. Yeah, like, I'm happy to help.

[A]

I actually just got an email before I came out to LA saying that my book Pride Over Pity is part of the biggest class action lawsuit of the United States. With AI.

[B]

What. Why?

[A]

It's the bart.

[B]

What is the base of the. Or can you talk about.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think the. In a nutshell is that this company is using AI to train it and train off.

[B]

My.

[A]

One of my. One of my books was one of the ones that's gonna be like a

[B]

pioneering type of case. Like, that hasn't really been litigated yet, I don't think.

[A]

No, it's in the process. And so I got this email saying that I was gonna get a check in the mail because they used it and it's like, fuck. Yeah. But the payout was like $1.5 billion. And I said, I'll take it all.

[B]

Yeah. Whoever doesn't claim there, have someone else make sure there aren't any other claims.

[A]

I said, it's my.

[B]

Because there may be. Because you. Because with who you are as a figure, you may have, like, likeness claims and stuff like that, too. Like, just look at it all.

[A]

Likeness claims.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. There may be more money you can get.

[A]

You don't got to tell me twice. Yes, I'm. If there's money to be made, I'm going to make it. Yeah.

[B]

Just have your lawyer double check to make sure there's nothing else. Because the class action may only be for, like the AI training copyright violation, but you as a figure may have likeness claims or, you know, like, there's maybe more you can do. But yeah, I'm sure your lawyer will at it.

[A]

Okay, so you. Did you always know you wanted to do employment law or did you just want to.

[B]

No, So I actually wanted to be a prosecutor, and then I went and shadowed one for a day and. And I'm like, I'm. It's not like Law and Order, and I don't want to do that. I wanted to be Olivia Benson. Yes. And it's not like that.

[A]

Did you see what Olivia Benson just did?

[B]

Mark her.

[A]

Marisa Mariska's real.

[B]

Yes. I mean, they're like one in the same now at the same time.

[A]

Yeah, of course. So she's been working on. For anyone listening who doesn't know Mariska, who plays Olivia Benson on Law and Order? Svu. She just got a. She was, like, lobbying for years and years. Years. Like 16 years. But now there's, like, going to be a database for the rape kits, and that's going to the backlog.

[B]

I think she, like, bankrolled it or she maybe did the connections with it, too, to get that going. Because that's a lot of reason why there's a backlog they're very expensive to test, all of that.

[A]

But I mean, people change their mind all the time about rape kits and then they don't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it's like, what do you do? Because I think they destroy them after a certain amount of time. Right.

[B]

It's going to depend on like the department policy. But yeah, I mean, some places will preserve them and have like their cold case files, but yeah, it doesn't. And DNA also degrades over time too. So, like, your chances of being able to connect it with someone could decrease the older it gets, the older the samples get.

[A]

Oh. See? So do you kind of know a little bit of all areas of law?

[B]

I know not to be dangerous about all areas of law, and I can research the hell out of anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I didn't. I started doing employment law when I got fired from a law firm. Like, I think you'll appreciate this. I couldn't control my mouth. And I worked for this lady, we called her the dragon lady. She was a love. Lovely woman and love. I flew under the radar for so long. I used to be a people pleaser. I'm a reformed people pleaser. And so I flew under the radar. I was like the best employee. And I was going to law school, do my thing, and then one day it was targeted at me. And I was like, you're not talking to me that way. And I was instantly fired. So after that I was like, I need a job. So I applied everywhere. I sent out every indeed application, whether it was a janitor, the secretary, a lawyer. And I wasn't even a lawyer yet. And I got five responses back after like, probably 200 applications. And they're like, can you read? This is her lawyer. I'm like, I don't care. Like, I. I take rejection pretty well. I'll just keep poking until I get it. Like, I'll keep working on it. And so someone came back and they're like, well, we don't really need, but maybe we do because we have this big case going on or whatever. And it was an employment firm. And I was like, if I can just get my foot in the door and show you, I will do anything for this job. And that's what happened. And so I started doing it and that's how I got an employment law.

[A]

Oh my gosh. I didn't even know there was a such thing as employment law until I had to hire an employment attorney.

[B]

Yeah, it's a very. A lot of people don't know until it's too late. A Lot of the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Business savvy people or like businesses more will have like the upper hand and they should have people reviewing it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But a lot of people don't even know when they have a case. Like, it breaks my heart when I'm talking to someone because it's very short statute of limitations. In Missouri where I practice, it's like two years. We have to sue. So some people don't even know they have a case within that window. And then it breaks my heart when I'm like, what happened to you? But it's past that timeline, so now we can't do anything.

[A]

If you didn't do employment, what would be like your go to area?

[B]

I love contract review. I love contract. I love reading it. Just any general contract. Like, I like fighting about the terms and the changes and like. So like, if I settle a case.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not just done that day. We have to fight over the. That's kind of my favorite part of cases. Oh, my gosh. Because then we fight over the terms and I have things I insist on every time and I literally get like legal boner when these like old white men will be like, we want this and this. And I'm like, well, you didn't put that in at the mediation, so fuck off. And this is what it is like, and it's kind of like the last, like toe to toe part we get. I have something like that going on right now where I'm like. They're like, this is non negotiable. I said, then why didn't you bring it up six months ago, you dumb bitch? Like, you're gonna have to sign. I have the material terms right here.

[A]

Yeah, no, I love that. Do you ever think that you don't get taken seriously because you're a woman 100%.

[B]

And because of social media, like all these, like. More like there are a lot of lawyers that think that I'm dumb because I do stuff like that, I think. And because a woman. I think it's like a double whammy going on there. But that's my favorite kind of person.

[A]

But it's free marketing for you because you're marketing yourself, the firm and whatever, you know, and also letting people know that there is employment attorneys. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. To educate.

[A]

Do you know? Well, I guess you would know. Is it more of like a contingency based situation?

[B]

Yeah. So it depends on what firm. So I don't want to speak for everybody, but most employment lawyers that represent employees, like I do, we do everything on contingency. I don't charge for legal consultation. Everything's on contingency. So it'd be like a percentage if I win. They don't have to pay any money up front. But I. There are some places that I just want to like, red flag warning. If someone does a consultation and they want to. And they want to charge you like a retainer, that means you probably don't have a case. Because if we think we have it, I know I'll get paid eventually. So I would be very skeptical and again, not informational only, not legal advice, but I would be very skeptical of if anyone ever wanted to get paid up front. Because if you have a good case in employment law, we know we're getting paid or, you know, have an idea of like what it would eventually pan out to.

[A]

That makes sense to me though, because if you. I mean, I've had, I've had conversations with lawyers who are very honest with me. I had one for family law and he was like, listen, I'm not taking this case. I'm giving you your. He talked to me for the consultation and then gave me my consultation money back. After he talked to me for an hour, he's like, I'm not taking this. And I was like, oh, you love someone with morals. No, I loved that. Well, he said it. He was like, honestly, just like, wait a little while. He's like, it's not really enough right now. He's like, but just like, wait a little while. He gave me my money back and then I was able to pursue it like a year later. So it actually worked out. But I really appreciated that because not all lawyers are like that.

[B]

That's a good lawyer. Because if there anyone can tell you what you want to hear to get you to sign and get a retainer. So that's a good lawyer that didn't want to just take your money. And they're. Here's what I would do if I were you. Yeah, come back in a year.

[A]

That one was family law, so it was a little bit different.

[B]

But I really generally though, like, I mean, it's very predatory sometimes if you have. That's why lawyers get a bad rap because like a lot of people don't understand litigation or behind the scenes things like that. So, like, we could tell you whatever. And that's why people get a bad rap, because things change. But the fact of that he was honest up front, that's a good lawyer.

[A]

We actually just had that same conversation with my plastic surgeon last week. I was saying How? Like, she was talking about sort of the same thing. Like, plastic surgeons can take your money and do all the work that you want, but at the end of the day, like, if you have a surgeon that's telling you no, you should probably listen.

[B]

That's a lot of credibility. Like my best friend who won't give me a facelift.

[A]

You don't need a facelift. Coming from someone that has.

[B]

I wouldn't, like pulled. I just wouldn't like snatched.

[A]

Maybe in a couple years.

[B]

Well, that's what. You know what I mean. I keep asking. I'm probably persistent.

[A]

I did only like this. I didn't do my whole face because I had this kind of crazy jowling situation.

[B]

That's what I have too.

[A]

Yeah. It's the best thing I ever did, honestly. And I was hurt. Youngest client, which or patient, which is

[B]

she try to tell you no, and you're like, do it.

[A]

No. She did see what I was talking about, So I was thankful for that because I. If someone tells me no or they were apprehensive, I wouldn't have done it. Same with, like, lawyers. I'm not. I'm taking the expert's advice. You know what I mean?

[B]

Very wise.

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Upload a photo or voice note and we'll diagnose your project and match you with the right pro for the job. Thumbtack, we know homes hire the right pro today. So you started making tick tocks. What was the reaction from like the law firm?

[B]

So where I was at, it was. It was. That's a great question. No one's ever asked me that before, where I was at, I got a lot of pushback initially because lawyers are so afraid of getting reported. They're so afraid. Like, lawyers are the most insecure people you will ever meet. We are terrified of what everyone thinks about us, of getting reported for stuff. What if we're wrong? Like, we. It is so hard to get my lawyer friends to do content for those reasons. So when I first started doing it, I'm a little more like, wild cart. I'm like, whatever, let's just throw it to the wall and see if it's still, you know, Like, I'll do pretty much anything for money, so let's go. And so my. Who I worked for was like, you know, some kind of guidelines or rules. And after every video, I'd get a message like, don't do that again.

[A]

Don't.

[B]

Don't say that again. From the shirt. Yeah. And I'm like, so then that lasted for. And then it took off. And so then there was kind of like the money coming in. So then I got a little longer leash. Okay. And then I would still get that, though, which I do not like being told what to do.

[A]

Well, first of all, if I was you and someone told me, like, don't do that again. I don't. I have a hard time with. With, like, being reprimanded or, like, especially

[B]

if I don't think I did something wrong.

[A]

No. Like, I'll just start crying if I think someone's, like, disappointed or I did something wrong. I get really, like, embarrassed and, like, shut down.

[B]

So I get spiteful and I do it again. You say, don't do it again. I hear it. Do it again.

[A]

Do you litigate also? Because not all attorneys are in a courtroom.

[B]

Is that right? Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so I do. I go to court regularly, all the time. State court, federal court, everything. And so. So I will do videos and do that. And it's so weird when a judge that I know for a really long time will be like, I saw that video you said about whatever. And then I'm like, oh, my God, I haven't talked about this judge on there, have I? Like, oh, holy shit. And I try never to talk about the judges unless it's, like, a good way or a neutral one.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

But, yeah, I started making videos during the pandemic to bring in, and then I got kind of that leash, and I'm like, I don't like being told what to do. And so then I broke off and did my own. So I have my own law firm and Then there were no rules. So then I had to find like, okay, what are we doing here? Because I used to do like, get ready with me. That's. That was my first.

[A]

That's how you started? Yeah. I feel like I. That's when you came across my timeline. That's so fascinating to me because I literally don't know if I've ever. I don't think I could do, like, if someone's telling me, don't do that again, I don't think I could do it. Like, I think I would just be like, okay.

[B]

I'm like, wired a little differently, I think. And I don't. I wouldn't advise not listening, you know, Like, I wouldn't advise being like me. But I mean, when you're on the cutting edge of advertising especially or marketing, you have to push the envelope or you're gonna not be noticed. And so I was trying anything because I needed to bring in cases. I was my first legal job. I was making $40,000 a year as a lawyer out of law school. And I'm supposed to be making more per, like what I brought in, like a percentage or whatever. Right. Well, then lockdown happened and I'm like, oh, I supposed to make more money. I can't network and I don't even know what to do. And so I just started making videos. Good for you. They took off and I. And I do them generally. It's usually like, like, for example, a lot of people don't know. You can't. You cannot tell your employees. They can't talk about their pay with each other.

[A]

I actually always thought that you couldn't.

[B]

Right. So I just started doing like kind of myth busting almost. And then I started what really took off. If anyone wants to go big, this is what to do with whatever industry you're in. Q and A people loved having like a lawyer bestie. They could comment. It was like calling me up and I'd FaceTime you back kind of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so they'd be like, my boss is doing this. Can I do whatever? And I would respond to that. And the content just made itself. I didn't have to come up with anything for years because I was just answering Q and A questions.

[A]

And one of them was like, talking about pay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And I try to cover that several times because that's another thing. If people want to make their own content that they don't do correctly when they're trying to educate or like get bigger on it. Right. You can't just do the same thing. Once. Like, I do that topic maybe, like, once every two weeks. Because not everyone sees every video. A lot of people think when you put it out, everyone who's following you sees it. And that's not how it works.

[A]

I actually get frustrated by that sometimes because it's like. Like, I know it's not their fault, but I'll answer the same questions over and over and over again, not realizing that it's not hitting people a lot. Yeah. And so I just get frustrated, but I don't mean to. The Justin Baldoni and.

[B]

Oh, my God, you know, I got death threats over that.

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

Offering my opinion as, like, someone who does that area of law?

[A]

Yeah. No. Okay. So Blake Lively, for anyone who's listening or watching, Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni finally settled with no money exchanged. And I.

[B]

Was that confirmed?

[A]

Well, I think TMZ reported. Allegedly. Allegedly.

[B]

You know what? I got a beef with tmz. I don't really necessarily believe everything they say.

[A]

Oh, okay. So we don't know. We don't know if money was exchanged, but what was your opinion on that whole case?

[B]

I'm so glad you asked this. Are you ready for the deference? Okay, so since the beginning, I said everyone just hated her. I understand she's not likable. You can be unlikable and be sexually harassed and retaliated against and discriminated against and retaliated against. So she was kind of starting lower off because of who she is. Everyone goes like, poor, pretty, white, rich girl crying about whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's how it started off. So the. If you go read the New York Times article that released all the text messages that Baldoni sent to the PR team he hired proactively, before this even hit, he went to go smear her. Read those text messages. They are so damning. I don't know how everyone has overlooked that. Blinded by their hatred of her to, like, overlook that. I've said from the beginning that retaliation claim was the strongest one. And I would have signed that up any day if it had been any Jane Doe off the street. Nobody would have been saying all that hateful stuff. Nobody would have been saying Team Baldoni.

[A]

See, this is the whole thing. I have always been Team Baldoni, ever.

[B]

That's because the PR smear worked like it. And they. And the own text messages. There's a text. And I'm paraphrasing, but it's like, we're not even having to do that much because the Internet naturally hates her and loves to shit on women so much. There's a text saying they're not even having to do everything they planned. So it was part of the PR smear camp, the machine, you know, by design.

[A]

Do you think that it's possible that there was maybe some sort of, like, borderline affair starting and then it's one of those things that's like.

[B]

The voice memos are weird. I. I think that's why people think that.

[A]

But he's not. Let me not say he's not doing that for no reason. I. My theory is that she also played into it, and then maybe there was something with her and her husband that it was like, okay, now we need to go back.

[B]

It definitely fits some of the weird theories with, like, the limited evidence we've seen of, like. Yeah, maybe that could have happened because there was like, a 3am Voice memo he sent that was like, yeah, like, you know, vocal fry. Like, cool, bro. She sent her own too, you know, I don't know. We'll never know those details of that. But here's the beauty of the law. Whether or not that happened, you can still have the retaliation because she engaged in the protected activity, saying, stop, and reported him. And they did the whole complaint process, and that is all private until or unless a lawsuit's filed. So even if. Even if your theory is right, it didn't work out. There was no sexual harassment. There was just a failed affair or something. Even if you could still have retaliation, which. That was the most damning one. And I also want to say, for all the haters online, are you familiar with summary judgment? That was in that case. Okay. So for anyone who's not summary judgment, when you're at that level court, especially in federal court, the judge decides if there's enough, if there's a dispute of material fact, if there's enough information, if you get to go to trial or not federal court, they love to give you a, like, offering above the highway to dismiss the case.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So that's the scariest part of a federal case, usually is surviving summary judgment as the plaintiff or the employee for my cases. So the fact that her retaliation claim survived that. That's why they said there was merit to it. There was at least enough question that the judge said, you know what? You guys disagree so much. There's evidence to support both your positions. Let's let the jury decide.

[A]

But then 10 out of her 13 claims were dismissed. Yes.

[B]

And a lot of them were on, like, standing issues, like, she wasn't an employee. So if you don't. If she was a contractor, for some of the discrimination claims and things like that. So those were dismissed more on technicality. The judge didn't even weigh the merits. He just. They take the easiest step to be like, up. You don't have standing next claim, like, so they don't want to, like, get into it if they don't have to.

[A]

So when I looked up, obviously, ChatGPT University, I'm like, can you. Can you sue for sexual harassment if you are a contractor or harassment if you're a contractor? And ChatGPT said generally no.

[B]

Correct. So usually, and I don't know, maybe states have different laws, so just generally, usually no. Usually contractors don't have the same rights as employees. Same with like workers comp. If you get hurt at work and you're a contractor, you usually don't get workers compensation benefits.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Have you seen that Stefan Diggs case that just.

[A]

Yeah, I want to talk about it.

[B]

So she's fighting, so. Okay, I'll wait. But that's an example of she's trying to get workers compensation benefits and she was a contractor and she's not going like, that's part of the case they're doing. But yeah, let's definitely talk about that.

[A]

Okay, so, but for.

[B]

For sexual harassment, you have to be a little creative sometimes. And it depends on what happens. But like, just because you can't sue for sexual harassment doesn't mean you can't sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress or if it depends on what happened. So usually we can find a way to bring some kind of other tort.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If something happened. But yeah, you don't have the same rights as an employee if you're a 1099 contractor.

[A]

I always thought that was so fascinating because. Because obviously in this line of industry, in this line of work, I don't get to be a W2 employee. Everything I do is on.

[B]

Yeah, you're the boss.

[A]

Yeah. And so. And then most of my. The people that work, I say with me, not for me. Cause for me feels weird. Yeah. All the people that work with me are also contractors, except for two. And so they have very different, I guess, expectations and things like that. But I would want to be W2 because I don't want to worry about taxes.

[B]

The taxes. You get benefits, you get overtime, you get workers comp. If you get hurt. Like, generally, everyone probably wants to be w too, unless you have like a weird knit, like, different situation, which we do.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But let's talk about Stefon Diggs because,

[B]

shit show, no one prepped her for that trial, dude, I was like watching it. Like, oh, my God, I didn't even see it.

[A]

So I know I've only seen like,

[B]

you gotta watch the clips.

[A]

Okay, so in a nutshell, talk about what lawsuit Stefan Diggs is in.

[B]

Okay. My understanding of this lawsuit is. And this is like what came out at trial. So they. Stefan Diggs and this. I can't remember her name. They met on Instagram. Like, they started talking, flirting. They had a friends with benefits situation. And then he hired her to be his live in chef. All while he had like regular women on the side, including Cardi B.

[A]

Did he have like six women pregnant at the same time?

[B]

Something like that, yeah.

[A]

Insane. Yes.

[B]

Pretty scandalous.

[A]

I'm trying to find her name.

[B]

So they. So she says they got into a disagreement about pay because she confronted him and was like, when are you going to pay me? She's working as a contractor. And he slapped her and choked her out or something. So that's the basis of the claim. That's what everyone heard and everyone, you know, wanted to hate what was. There's this one of my favorite creators, the luncheon lawyer on Instagram. You have to look her up. She goes, not only did he lose the super bowl, he lost his girl. He's being sued in court. Like, she's so funny. But yeah, he was like having a really bad time. So everyone thought this trial would be like, okay, we're gonna go see him get his ass kicked again, you know, on national broadcasting. Well, no one prepped her. And I think this was a situation. She has a personal injury claim going on where I think she was probably given bad advice to demand $5.5 million for being slapped. So anyway, that was going on. The criminal cases, the trial that just happened. So he was the criminal defendant in the case, the trial that we just saw.

[A]

Timeout. Would he not. Would this not be like a. Like a possibly employment and. Or civil. Plus, she has three cases.

[B]

Yeah, I was about to say for the slap, personal injury. The defendant, she was a witness as a victim. And then they have a workers comp. Unpaid wages situation, Emotional distress from being slapped situation going on. So I think she has three cases at least. Yeah.

[A]

And she does have an attorney, or she does not have an attorney.

[B]

According to her, she has several attorneys. I don't know what the fuck they're telling her because I'm. I was watching it. I was like, oh, my God. I think no one prepped her. And then. So all these things, these cases are all evidence and negotiations are Admissible in each one. So you will have to look this up online. So they have their 5.5 million demand from the package per the PI, the personal injury. So on the stand, this, you're gonna watch it and see, you're gonna be like, that looks like my kid. When they're about to, like, try to pivot from something I caught them in, You're. That's a face she made. So they go, isn't it true that your lawyers demanded 5.5 million from him last week or when this complaint was filed? And she goes, well, he wanted to pay me a hundred thousand. And so you can't say that like, she has. It's not responsive, but it was like she had not a good time. It was really bad. They downplayed all of her stuff. Stuff. They made it seem like she was just in it for money. I think the jury deliberated for 45 minutes and came back and found him not guilty.

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

Like. Like, if she could get in trouble for that. So perjury, lying is a crime, but

[A]

what if it's the truth?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You, like, don't really care as much as you're claiming. You just do.

[B]

Right. So. So, no, she probably wouldn't be punished for that unless she was lying about something that is the reason he was, like, wrongfully prosecuted or something. But here's an example of why this is going to tank her other cases is because they will now have this jury verdict where now his lawyers, who were very good at trial, get to go, hey, a jury of 12 people went through this whole thing and said, he didn't do it. He wasn't convicted. It wasn't even a hung jury. It was unanimous, I think. And so they can now bring. That's admissible in these other two cases to be like. Like this didn't even happen. Like, that'll come in.

[A]

So did she claim that he did this to her, but he's saying he didn't do it at all?

[B]

I think so, yeah. I think he or I think parts of it were like, it was consensual, like, rough sex situation going on. Yeah, it was kind of like that.

[A]

Oh, my God, what a disaster. It's going back to the Blake Lively thing. I was so shocked to see her at the Met, and I read claims that she paid to be there this year because of her. I don't know if that's true. Obviously, it's all alleged. I'm trying to think of other celebrity cases that we could talk about.

[B]

One more thing I wanted to say is. So did you read the subtle. The joint settlement statement? There's a lot of misinformation online by keyboard litigators who don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, look it up. So normally, like any regular case that settles is confidential. It has non disparagement, mutual non disparagement, usually. So you can't talk poorly about the other party. And so the fact that they issued a joint statement that it says something to the effect of, we regret we didn't take it seriously and her concern should have been heard. No company in the world would agree to that. That's kind of an admission of liability. So it's like, strike Number one, where

[A]

I'm like, for Baldoni.

[B]

Yeah, for Wayfair, his company. And so that's like admission number one, where me and any other litigator will immediately be like, whoa, they admitted to something kind of right there, so that's not normal. And then just the way it was written, like, toward the end, I can't remember the exact phrasing, but it was like, we want all women to be whatever. Like, the way it was mutual. It was a win for her, in my opinion, because really. Because here's the thing. As a plaintiff, she could have just dismissed the whole case and walked away. Worst case scenario, she thought she was gonna lose. So the fact that they settled and it had that wording in the statement, that's a win for her as a litigator, because that is not normal. And so, like, when I. When I said this in a video recently, I'm getting, like, annihilated in the comments by people being like, you don't know what you're talking about. He's like, whatever. She. She settled for no money or whatever. But it's like, it wasn't about the money. It was about all of this coming to light if everyone actually educated themselves on it and not just took the PR smear campaign. Read those in New York Time text in that article, right? Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if she took no money. She won with that joint statement where he goes, yeah, we should have taken it seriously.

[A]

I wonder if he had to pay her attorney's fees.

[B]

I don't. I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

I'm just thinking of, like, I've spent a million dollars in child custody, and that's just family law and not any of my, like, that's insane entertainment stuff or trademark stuff. And so I think about just in 2025, I spent 350,000 in child custody.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So to me, I'm like, how much money did they spend? Just going through. And then I. When I had the lawsuit with Brianna, which is insane, it was dismissed, but I had to pay her lawyer fees. So that alone I had to pay her. I think it was like 150,000. So I'm thinking to myself, like, how much they spent over the course of this time. Will someone have to pay someone's lawyer fees? And I guess we'll never know. But I would love to see that number.

[B]

We'll never know because it's probably going to be confidential part. But one thing to know, one of the claims, the retaliation claims awards attorneys fees to the winning party. It's by statute, you can see. So, like, if I go to court and I win my discrimination and or retaliation claim. Claim. My client can keep their 100,000. And I say, Judge, I spent $400,000 worth of time on this. Can you multiply it by three? It's called a Lodestar or whatever. And we can ask. You don't get it if you don't ask. So I always go highest number, the thing that sucks. But then they have to pay it by statute if I win.

[A]

I just pulled up the 10 most explosive celebrity lawsuits. I don't know. Obviously, we know about Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively, Stefan Diggs. We know about back when. Remind me his name. Pirates of the Caribbean and Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp.

[B]

So this is interesting is I wonder how much now Amber heard, like, kind of talked herself into her situation at trial. Like, that did not go well for her. It didn't look like she got just slaughtered in the Internet. But part of me wonders, knowing what we know now about that Baldoni hired that PR team to do all this, like, proactively before the case. Part of me wonders how much of that was involved there that we don't even know about on Johnny Depp's side. Yeah. Yeah. Like, wasn't he represented by the same PR company or something, too? There's something involved there like, that.

[A]

I remember seeing him recently in like, a. Maybe like a perfect cologne ad campaign or something like that. And I was like, okay, he's gonna maybe work again, but I don't know that she'll ever get another.

[B]

No, she's like, relocated change. I don't know if she's actually changed her name, but she's, like, living in a different country. Not. Well, she has an Elon Musk baby, so she's just living over there.

[A]

She had a baby with him?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. At least more than one, I think. But. Yeah.

[A]

I didn't realize they had a kid together.

[B]

Yeah, I thought, well, that's like mission is to impregnate everybody, you know? Like, that's.

[A]

But I get a bad rap for it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When I have four baby.

[B]

Because you're a woman.

[A]

I did not realize they had.

[B]

If you were the richest man in the world, it wouldn't matter.

[A]

It wouldn't matter.

[B]

There's a song about that. Taylor Swift wrote a song about that. Yeah. It wouldn't matter the man. If you were doing it and you were a man, nobody would say.

[A]

Nobody could care.

[B]

But, yeah, isn't that double standard Wild. But yeah, she's living anonymously on Elon Musk money we're never going to see from her again.

[A]

You know, I mean, if she's living comfortably, then.

[B]

Yeah, but could you imagine that? Being your baby daddy?

[A]

Like, no.

[B]

Because like, a million for a baby daddy, that's pretty weird.

[A]

He also doesn't. Doesn't pay child support. I heard. Allegedly. Alleged. Don't sue me, Elon. And if you do, I don't have

[B]

anything you need to be like, in my opinion. Or somebody told me.

[A]

Somebody told me. I read online that Elon Musk won't pay child support, so.

[B]

Well, that'd be someone fun to garnish. But that's so, like, you pretty much know, like, you cannot get out of paying child support. It's like herpes. You're gonna have to deal with it the rest of your life. And if you ignore it, it. That. It'll. It'll. Yeah, it accrues interest.

[A]

I mean, I'm just saying. What's your favorite part of? I guess litigation.

[B]

My favorite part of litigation. Okay, so I have two favorite parts.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I love to be psycho. And to the other lawyers, okay. I've been a lot of therapy that I'm allowed to be crazy for work only. Okay. So that's why I love that. That's my outlet. Okay. I don't take it out on anyone. Portness and Joe. I don't take it out on people. I try not to.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We have, like, safe things that I'd be like, was I crazy today? And I'm like, sorry, sorry. So that's my outlet. That's my favorite part is. Cause I can be like, batshit crazy.

[A]

So you're like a pit bull in the courtroom. Yeah, I like that.

[B]

Let me do that for you. And usually I have like, the most abused, hurt client who was like, threatened, scared to even be doing whatever. Like, I totally get it. And I think it's really empowering for them to see me be like, hey, watch this. And then I just do something psycho to their boss in a deposition for like a seven Hour Depot. And I get off on that. You're like, fuck, I'm the only one having fun. And my clients, like, do it again. But so that's my first favorite part. And then I do just genuinely, like helping people. It's kind of like this, like, savior kind of complex you get when you're in this because it's like, I help them get some form of justice usually. Right. And so that's really rewarding too. It's because it's like. And a lot of people won't know about it. And so we kind of talk about that at the, at the onset of like you'll probably be confidential if you get money. Unless we go to a trial.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

However, those are my two favorite parts is it's like license to be crazy within my rules and then I get to help people.

[A]

My therapist said yes, literally.

[B]

Hannah says I'm crazy for work, for

[A]

like an employment situation. It's, well, I guess all of law. Right. It's not what we know, it's what we can prove. So who does the burden of proof fall on?

[B]

So it depends on what claims you're bringing. So for my cases, like employment, I represent the employee, the plaintiff. It is our burden to show. And in Missouri we have what's called motivating factor. So the burden is on the employee. Usually when. Well, in Missouri it's always on the whoever's bringing the claim when you're putting bringing harassment, discrimination, retaliation claims. And Missouri we have what's called the motivating factor standard, which sucks. It used to be the contributing factor, which I have a funny story if you want to hear about that.

[A]

Yeah, I do.

[B]

But motivating factor, we have to be like all of these reasons was the motivating reason they were fired or the mode. Her. Her. The reason she said, no, I'm not going to give you a blowjob to her boss is the reason she was fired. Okay. So we have to prove that was the reason. So it's really hard now. I mean, it's kind of more fair, but I like to make money, so it sucks for me. So it's kind of more fair. As a business owner I get. But before it used to be a contributing factor. So one time I represented someone like a long time ago when it was an old standard and it was like she had like 12 write ups for being caught for sleeping on the job. But there was one race discrimination complaint and then there were more write ups for sleeping on the job. Then she got fired. And so all I had to prove was one like it was contributing factor. All I had to show is that that report contributed to the reason she was fired. Which is kind of like a jury question. It's a legal argument.

[A]

But why was she sleeping on the job? Did she have narcolepsy?

[B]

I mean, maybe she was tired, I don't know. But anyway, it used to be like way easier to bring these cases. And so it changed. And I think the new law took effect in 2018. Like it changed over and it was like 17 or 18. And now we have the motivating factor. So it's actually that's why it like kills me when I see people saying this stuff about Blake Lively online is like, she has a motivating factor. Burden of proof that wouldn't have survived summary judgment if there wasn't stuff there. It's so hard to bring a case and win on it. And then also there were a lot of bots involved in this as well.

[A]

What do you mean bots?

[B]

Like anytime I make a post and me and a couple of other lawyer creators that talk about this case openly, like, there's more with mj, we constantly are like, could you see all the bots today? If we make a post, we get flooded with the exact same phrase, like word for word by a bunch of no picture, no name, no.

[A]

What does that do? What is the purpose of that?

[B]

To spin the public opinion. Because, like, I love to read the comments. So if I see a video and I open up the comment and see 50 people have this opinion, I'm like, oh, maybe that kind of like you were saying.

[A]

Who's running the bots though? Companies and people. Allegedly.

[B]

You can hire people to do that. That.

[A]

Because I saw on Instagram, which yesterday there was like all this stuff on my timelines about like Instagram going through and like getting rid of bots.

[B]

Yeah, that's what they're doing or they say they're doing.

[A]

So. But people are using bots to perpetuate whatever narrative it is or perpetuate.

[B]

I'm surprised it hasn't happened to you with like people.

[A]

I'm sure it has, but I thankfully I didn't lose any followers, so I clearly don't have a whole lot of bots. I don't. Maybe I'm not that important because the list of people that I saw on

[B]

the boss, maybe your enemies can't afford to pay for the boss. I think is more like, you know, what's actually broke ass and amazing.

[A]

Truly. And they're always the ones that are like saying all kinds.

[B]

Yeah. Cuz they have nothing to lose.

[A]

This episode of Barely Famous Podcast is brought to you by Alloy Health. Let's be honest, aging can come with some unwelcome changes. Sleep disruptions, hot flashes, brain fog, weight gain and decreased libido can hit us hard. That's where Alloy comes in. Alloy is a digital health platform that connects you with a menopause specialized doctor to help you feel and look your best in midlife. Your doctor will help you find the best, best safe science backed treatments for your symptoms hair, skin, weight and sexual wellness delivered straight to your door. Everything is done online from the comfort of your own home so there's no waiting for an appointment or waiting in line at the pharmacy. And Alloy is fast accessible and their treatments actually work so you'll complete your intake. Alloy solutions are available by prescription, so you'll need to complete an intake form and then you'll receive a treatment plan from your doctor. You'll actually be matched with a menopause specialized physician who will create a personalized treatment plan tailored to your specific needs. Plus you'll have unlimited access to your doctor so you can message them anytime and then you get a three month supply. Once you're approved, Alloy ships your prescription directly to your door with automatic refills which if you know me, I'm paying for the convenience. I don't care. I love when things come straight to my door. So join the 95 of women who've tried Alloy and saw relief in the first two weeks. Head to myalloy.com and use the code Famous. Tell them all about your symptoms and you'll get a fully customized treatment plan and unlimited messaging with your doctor. Plus you'll get 20 off your first order today. Head to my l lloy.com and use code famous to get $20 off your first order. Is social media bad for your mental health? Are we spending too much on other people's weddings? Why is heteropessimism trending? If the culture is asking it, NPR's it's been a Minute podcast is definitely talking about it. It's Been a Minute stands for your right to be curious. One big question at a time. Four days a week, host Britney Loose breaks down the ideas, trends and conversations shaping the culture. She goes beyond the obvious, takes talking with creators, critics and cultural V who help you see things differently. You'll hear dialogues with both up and comers and cultural icons, and host Britney Loose takes the things everyone's talking about and gives you new ways to think about them. It's not just what's trending, it's why it's trending and what that says about us. It's Been a Minute knows cultural trends don't happen by accident. Britney and her guests dig into the latest memes and unpack how they got into your feed in the first place and why they're stealing our attention. These are the conversations you want to have and the ones you'll be bringing up later with podcasts like it's been a Minute. NPR is here to listen. Ask more questions and take your curiosity further. Further. Follow NPR's it's been a Minute podcast and indulge your cultural curiosity. You know how there's. There's defamation, there's libel, there's slander. Right. And those in and of themselves are really hard to prove sometime. Mostly that I know of, like, defamation is so hard to prove.

[B]

Yeah. The hardest part is showing damages.

[A]

Right. The weird thing about content creation, and maybe you've come across this too, but what happens when you have these, like, T pages that are teetering the line between. Because they're spreading their opinion, because. But it's, it's being running around the Internet, like fact. So what does that. What happens then when you're. You're teetering a line like, this could be defamation. This could be.

[B]

So I think a lot of them operate on being anonymous because it's hard to find someone to sue if you can't find who it is. I know like, a page that happened to one of the main people was anonymous and then they got found out and then they stopped because it freaked them out enough, which I'm like, okay, good, understood, understandable. But if you, if it is your opinion or if you say, I don't know if this is true, but I heard whatever. Those are statements that are typically harder to sue for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, like, if I want to talk shit on you, I'd be like, my opinion. Kale is this. And she's whatever, whatever, whatever. That's my opinion. I'm not saying Kale is this. Kayl did this. So there's a very fine line in the wording of the statements, but a lot of those pages do it. It's just hard to find the person. And also, like, you can't bleed a turnip.

[A]

At what point does it become harassment? Yeah, because it's also like, my name and likeness and being a public figure. And so, like, there's all these, like, nuances to it. So, like, what happen then?

[B]

So that's going to vary by state harassment laws. So, like, whatever state it's happening in, for example, you could contact the police or whatever prosecution in that state. And. And like, I would. Okay, this is my one thing. Like state police, sometimes they don't like to do the paperwork. Whatever. I would contact them and with the timeline, with all your stuff, have your lawyer put together and be like, prosecute them for harassment. We did all the work for you. Just make the. Make the arrest, make the case.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the Best way. And that actually happens a lot more than people think. Like, I think it happened with one of the people involved in the Idaho four murder. Someone there was, like, this crazy person online accusing a professor of being the one that did it or something. And she won. She won her case. That person was federally or not federally. That person was criminally prosecuted for harassment. So that's an option, too. You can do civil and criminal at the same time, or you. Or get that conviction and then sue them civilly.

[A]

I just pulled up ten most explosive celebrity lawsuits. Number one is Justin Baldoni. Yeah, some of these I had not heard of. It's like, Tyler Perry accused of assault and retaliation. We have FKA twigs versus Shia LaBeouf.

[B]

Oh, that was a big one.

[A]

Oh, that was a big case. I used to love Shia LaBeouf. One time I Photoshopped a picture of me with him. And this was before all of the crazy stuff. It was. I think I was straight out of high school, and I was like, yeah, wow.

[B]

Before A.I. you did.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I really put in the work.

[B]

You put in the Photoshop.

[A]

It was a joke, though. Like, people knew that it was like a Photoshop. It was like us on a red carpet. It.

[B]

It is sad how, like, a lot of the child stars like him when just, like, off the deep end, which. It's like, we'll never know what happened to them to kind of cause that dynamic. But that was a bad one.

[A]

Amanda Bynes and then Britney Spears. It all makes me so sad.

[B]

It is so sad.

[A]

A lot of these I hadn't heard of. Busta Rhymes. Counter Sue's former assistant.

[B]

Did you watch the Afroman one at all? That was recently.

[A]

No. What was that?

[B]

Okay. Do you know who that is?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So he was suing the local police department. You have to look this up when you're, like, on your next flight or something, because it's so. Like, just watch the videos because there's a lot of security footage. And he. So anyway, I'm getting too excited because it's so funny. So what happened was someone came to his house. They raided his house. Really? For no reason. Like an anonymous tip or something. It turned out not to be true. They raided his house. They broke his door. They broke his gate. There's a cop going through the kitchen that, like, eyeballs a lemon pound cake, which is important for, like, later. And then he has all these video of them, like, looking through his cd, like, looking through his stuff. He said they stole, like, 200 bucks in cash from him or something. And so there's all this video footage. He was never prosecuted for anything. Nothing ever happened. So he started making music videos with the footage, with the footage, making fun of them. Genius.

[A]

That's kind of amazing.

[B]

Love it. Genius. And like, there's a lemon. It's like mom's lemon pound cake or something song. And they use a clip of this guy looking at it and it's like, he's like, I'd rate it too for that cake. Like, it was just really fun.

[A]

Gosh.

[B]

So he did all these different videos, music videos, which are like millions and millions of views on the Internet. So those officers tried to sue him.

[A]

No, no, you did this.

[B]

And like, using their likeness and whatever, but you don't have the expectation of privacy in someone else's house or like an open situation. So that was all fair game. Like, they entered his house. It was on recording. He didn't record them in the bathroom. You know, that would be like a private area, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So they went to trial and just got like, annihilated. You'll have to watch it. It was really enjoyable.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

And then he. Now he's doing like a victory tour with it.

[A]

Like, my boyfriend's in the back. Like, it's funny.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's so funny. He just came to my hometown and was like, they're in his American flag suit. And everyone's like, everyone brought him lemon pound cake.

[A]

Shut up. That is so funny.

[B]

Sarah made lemon pound cake for like 20 people. But yeah, look, you'll have to look at the clips because you can actually see the security footage in the. They don't look good in it. I would. I'd want to sue too, but I have to.

[A]

I'm going to be looking this up. Oh, my God.

[B]

And then one of the officers testified on the stand that he kind of got ran out of that line of work because his. His co workers would harass him with pound cake and stuff. Like, it was like a big spiral thing.

[A]

I'm gonna just like, send you. When you go home, I'm gonna send you a pound cake.

[B]

Send me the stuff you like and be like, so I can relive it too. But like, yeah, you have to. The music videos are hilarious.

[A]

So funny. I haven't heard of Afro man in forever. Like, I didn't even know he was still around.

[B]

No, this was like the best thing that could have happened to him because now a whole new.

[A]

Researched his whole, like, I love that for free. You know, anyone.

[B]

And it was a really good case. Like, he was really genuine. He testified. Great. Like, that's an example of someone who was prepared, who answered the questions. He was kind of funny with the jury, but not in an asshole way.

[A]

Like it. Right.

[B]

That's like the perfect way of a trial could go as a plaintiff. Because. Yeah, at the, at the onset you were like, oh, they're. They're not going to win anything. And I think they were asking for some, like, crazy amount of money from him too, for their emotional distress damages. Again, greedy, too. Greedy, greedy. Yeah. So.

[A]

Because he probably would have settled if you were asked for a reasonable, reasonable amount.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't know, though. If you're completely in the wrong.

[B]

Very. Like, this is wrong. So I don't know. But yeah, if. Yeah. Like, would you rather pay your lawyer 20,000 or ask for 20,000? Maybe he would have paid it, but true. Yeah. So you'll have to watch those. Those.

[A]

So funny.

[B]

That was a good one. He also did a song that was like, why'd you break my door?

[A]

We love when people troll back. Like, that's the best way to get through any of that.

[B]

And then he said. And then he. Okay, one last one. He said one about a wife of one of the officers involved. It might have been like one of the main detectives or something. And he was saying that he had, like, sex with her and stuff. Or that, like, I. Your wife kind of stuff.

[A]

Well, he must have, because you can't lie. Or you could.

[B]

She was cool with it because on. On the stand, the. The officer's like, no, this ruined my marriage. Like, he said all that stuff. It ruined my marriage. And they brought her up and the lawyer goes to this ruin your marriage? And she goes, no, my ex husband ruined the marriage. Like, I don't care about this video at all. And so, like, that was just great.

[A]

That's actually really.

[B]

And that's a clip. That's a clip online. You'll just find that.

[A]

Oh, actually, can we talk about the Diddy case? Why did so many get taught? Like, so many of the claims got tossed. But it's like, okay, look at Bill Cosby. Look at Harvey Weinstein.

[B]

Happened with him too. So, like, that different thing happened. Bill Cosby got released, or I think they issued a retrial for one of them because he entered into a pro, like a settlement agreement so that the victims would get paid, like, probably a lot of money and that had some term in there that they couldn't testify. Or he did, like a prosecutor agreement so that they would get their Money. But then he got prosecuted for it anyway. And he had that contract with, like, you can have deferred prosecution or you can make a contract with the prosecutor like that. And so they breached it because they basically said, testify and tell us the truth. We promise we won't prosecute you for it. Sign here just so that we can get the information. But then they used a different one. Use that later to prosecute them. So that's why that one happened. But the Diddy one, a lot of them were out of time. Some of them were too old, like, too much of a time had gone by. And so that's why a lot of them did get thrown out.

[A]

Because R. Kelly is still in prison, I think. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, I just wonder, like, how does this happen? Like, I don't understand.

[B]

So that would be like, when you hear it on a technicality. That's an example. Yeah.

[A]

Because I think when I. The last time I chat. GPT, what the statute of limitations was on rape because of the United States. The, the Mariska.

[B]

Yeah. Bill.

[A]

Was it a bill that was passed.

[B]

Well, and there's so many different. This is why it's fun to be a lawyer. There's so many different things because, like, I can argue something called continuing violation theory. So if my case is technically out of time, because we have a short statute of limitations, I can say, well, this is when it actually should have started, when they found out that this happened and try to toll it or extend it. You can also make an agreement, like, if you can toll the statute of limitations, a lot of people don't have know that. So, like, if some, if you beat someone up on the street today and you said, hey, I want to settle, don't sue me, let's talk about it. But the statute of limitations was coming up. You guys could make an agreement to, like, extend that further, even though that doesn't exist under law. You can contract to do that, and then if you didn't settle it, then you could sue them and you've agreed to extend that. So there are so many different things that we can get really creative with to do like that, but a lot of them are on technicalities like that.

[A]

How do we feel about that?

[B]

I mean, that's why I have a job. So I like it. I mean, it's going to be good and bad. Right. Like, it's. It works both ways. Like, we use it to benefit people and it also sometimes benefits the perps. Like, it's just how it works. But I mean, I like it because I think not. Not everything's black and white.

[A]

No.

[B]

So that's why it's good to be able to have that room to make that argument, I think.

[A]

What is your opinion on the Menendez brothers?

[B]

I think abuse, especially like if you grew up that way, a system of abuse makes people's brains wired differently. I mean, you know that from being abused by people on your own. So like, was that a rational person? No. Are there? I think, I think what they did afterward is kind of why what happened happened is that they tried to continue like balling out and living life. I feel like if what happened and they're like, hey, I just snapped and killed my dad because he was trying to molest me or whatever the allegations. I don't know all the details.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I think there would have been a little bit of a difference if they hadn't tried to like, go on life as normal. Because then the prosecution made the argument for money.

[A]

Barely Famous podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could actually save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[B]

Mom, can you tell me a story? Sure.

[A]

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[B]

Was it scary?

[A]

Honey, it was as unscary as car buying could be.

[B]

Did the car have a sunroof? It did actually. Okay, good story.

[A]

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[B]

Delivery fees may apply. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoy not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] I think the judge made the right call, because if we start unwinding things that have already either had a plea deal or the jury verdict or whatever, Whatever, I. That's a dangerous thing to do. Like.

[A]

But it's been decades.

[B]

Well, I mean, sometimes what they're.

[A]

Gypsy Rose got out.

[B]

Well, yeah, that's. Oh, we should talk about that.

[A]

I had her on the podcast. Oh, my God, I did.

[B]

I have to go find that episode.

[A]

I had her on the podcast. Well, what was so interesting about it? So I went to New Orleans to have her on.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I had read her book cover to cover and had her on. And it was really surreal being in her presence because she just seems like a very regular person.

[B]

Yeah, that would be.

[A]

And she's tiny. I mean, I don't even know if she's five feet tall.

[B]

So when I used to do criminal defense, that's how I felt. Every day I'd go walk in, and I'm like between a glass wall with someone, and I'm like, wow, I can't believe you did that.

[A]

No, it's fascinating because I'm like, you were really behind all of this. Like, you seem so normal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But people have ripped me to fucking shreds for that.

[B]

I'm sure.

[A]

But I'm like, I'm not an attorney, and while I would love to be one day, I don't have time. No, because it's one the of of those things where, like, I. I did that interview based on what I. What information I had at the time when I had Gypsy on, I was like, oh, like, this is so, like, surreal. I don't know. But so I. It is a little bit fascinating to me that she would get out, but the Menendez brothers have really done work, and so I feel like being in there for decades, they can't procreate at this point. Or in theory, they wouldn't. You know what I mean? Or, like.

[B]

Well, they're looking at if they'd be a continued danger to society. And I really have different choices. Charges. So that's what they were arguing. They were saying this was just. This beef was just with the parents. They're dead. We're not gonna hurt anyone else. That was their whole position.

[A]

That's what my position was. She.

[B]

She wasn't convicted of murder. I think it was, like, accessory to murder, because she had that guy do it on her behalf. I don't remember that. Like, the conspiracy or something. She was not charged with, like, direct Murder because, like, the ringleader, she didn't do the killing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They were. So that's why it's a little different and different sentencing. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, that's a good point. The fact that she's out walking around, it's because. So, like, it's because she's didn't do the act she was allegedly did of the murder. Allegedly. I think it's odd when she, like, leans into those jokes.

[A]

If you've seen videos, I mean, yeah, this is not like the Menendez brothers.

[B]

She did a trend with someone. I don't know who this was, but I saw the video. It's like, put a finger down if you killed your mom or something.

[A]

Yeah, I saw that. And I was like.

[B]

I know. I was like that. Who approved that your team is not doing their work. Yeah, but I don't.

[A]

I don't think she has TV producer.

[B]

They do, like, say that.

[A]

No, she. She does.

[B]

When I got down there happening to her.

[A]

So I went down there. That was so crazy. No, she had. So I get there and I recognize the producer. She used to work on my set. She worked on my segment.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, I knew her. It wasn't that she just worked on Teen mom like, she was worked on mine.

[B]

They are doing stuff for shock value. That's what. Like, that's why. That's why she's. That makes sense. That makes sense.

[A]

But I don't think she has a show anymore. I think it was.

[B]

Oh, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, it was, like, canceled or whatever. I don't know.

[B]

But the Internet's never going to let her live a peaceful life because every time she tries to rebrand and something, they just, like, come at her.

[A]

They just come. Right? Yeah. I'm like, oh, yikes. I don't know if you should do

[B]

that, but I do think. And, like, they both had abuse situations as children. So, like, there. There is, like, a little sensitivity I have toward that, because if you really see all the stuff her mom supposedly did to her and things like that, like the feeding tube and all these unnecessary things. It's on the doctors, too, though. I mean, they all.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

But I think their abuse situation was a little different with the Menendez brothers because there was, like, sexual abuse and things going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. So I. I was also surprised. But it is a good thing that the judge just won't unwind something just because of public opinion, because that's when we start to lose our, like, legal system. And as. As the nerd in me that Scares me.

[A]

You know, I just feel like if anyone was going to be like rehabilitated, I like believe the Menendez brothers that it would have been there. I really don't think they would be because also they're going to have to start completely over. They're going to have to completely start from scratch. And like, you've been removed from society for so long that like, you're going to have a hard time.

[B]

I just don't think they're getting out.

[A]

They're not.

[B]

Yeah. And it makes, but they can, they can keep trying, but I don't think it's going to happen.

[A]

O.J. simpson case. What's your theory on it? Do you think he did it?

[B]

Oh, yeah, I think he did it. I think the evidence shows that he did it. I think the glove thing was genius.

[A]

I put the rubber gloves on there. You can't put gloves on.

[B]

That is like a master class on lawyering for. What was his lawyer's name? I can't remember. He, he did it perfectly. He had such a good relationship with the jerk jury. He talked with them. It was conversational. He had inside jokes with them. Like, it was such a good.

[A]

Johnny Cochran.

[B]

Okay. How to be a trial attorney. That's what I would recommend people like, if you have your first trial coming up, go watch everything he did and make it your own. Because that was genius.

[A]

Was it? You're talking about the rubber gloves.

[B]

The, the, if it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

[A]

Well, they put the rubber gloves on. No, it's not gonna fit because it's gonna hurt.

[B]

He didn't have his arthritis medicine, so his hands were swollen too. And leather shrinks when it gets wet and they were bloody. So like it was like, of course it doesn't fit. But this is the thing is like, if you can make a good relationship with the jury because that was like a month long, months long trial and they got to know each other very well. If you can do that, the jury will do maybe things that they're not supposed to do, like nullification. Like they want to do what they think is right and he gave them the Runway to do that.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So if he had had. So like, if, if, if O.J. had had Amber Heard's lawyers, I don't think it would have gone.

[A]

No, it would not go on.

[B]

That was a full on performance by Johnny Cochran. Like master class in lawyering.

[A]

I want to know, know. Obviously we'll never know the answer to this, but like with CCTV these days, with the digital footprints, with the phones and the towers pinging. I mean, even just like Brian Laundry or the Idaho four.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do you think you're gonna get away with murder at this point in 2020?

[B]

Why are you bringing your phones to do it?

[A]

Well, like.

[B]

Well, the cars have computers in them and tracking in them now too.

[A]

I'm still so fat. I will never get over. And I know you're not a criminal at, but I will never, never, never get over the Bryan Coburger case. What is your opinion on. I still don't think he did it himself, by himself.

[B]

You don't? Why? Why?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Who do you think helped him?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Do you think he was involved?

[A]

Yes, I do think he was involved, but I.

[B]

So I was like, wait a minute.

[A]

I don't know if it was the roommates. I don't know.

[B]

Why do you. Because they didn't call right away. Okay, well, think of it this way. I think he was the only one that did it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I have a. We could. That'd be a whole nother hour. But I think he did it. I think he did it alone. There's no one else that has been been like, pointed to for it. But I know that's what his family is saying, that he was set up or framed or whatever. But a lot of people I've seen online think that. I can't remember her name. They think one of the roommates was in on it because she didn't call 911 right away. We've all been 20 something blackout drunk. And like, did I see that? Am I hallucinating? They had people coming in and out of that house all the time. I don't think she. She deliberately did that because I've been blackout drunk, paranoid because I also maybe did some other things. And I'm like, did I just see that or was that my dog making that noise? I'm just gonna go to bed and hope to no one's gonna kill me tonight.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I think we've all had that thought, like when you're a partying college kid for sure. And so they had so many people coming into that house. I think maybe she really didn't know and was too scared to go investigate because she was fucked up. I think that's probably what happened now. Didn't look good. She got. She got like annihilated by the public for doing that. And I feel so sad for her because I've done that and heard a bump in the night. And I was like, hope I Don't die tonight. I'm going to bed.

[A]

I mean, to be fair, I've also done that.

[B]

I think that's probably what happened.

[A]

But I just want to know, like. And you know what. Did you ever. Did you watch the documentary or read the book on the Idaho fort?

[B]

Both. Yeah.

[A]

The. Ethan's parents and family have handled the entire situation so much grace, that I'm like, I don't know how you go on using a child when you have other children to like.

[B]

And his mom was like, propping everyone else up the whole entire time.

[A]

No, truly, like an angel on this earth.

[B]

I feel so sad for his. It's like giving me goosebumps. I, like, feel that for his siblings. Cuz can you imagine? That's just.

[A]

No, I just read a book. I finished it yesterday on the plane and it was about twins and I. One died.

[B]

Yeah. Cuz now you have your twins. I. I'm sorry. I couldn't read that.

[A]

No, nobody warned me. I mean, they didn't tell me there was twins. They warned me. It was sad, but they didn't tell me there was twins.

[B]

Your book recap, like this needs a warning label.

[A]

Trigger warnings everywhere if you have twins. Well, they did that for. I don't know how much of a reader you are, but they did that for Verity. I was pregnant with the twins and they were like, don't read that. And until after you have them.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

I was like, oh, thank God, because I can't. I was gonna say something else about. Oh, the Brian Cobra. I am waiting for the day that we're able to. I want to hear from him.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I want to go into the prison.

[B]

Were you disappointed? We were just talking about this the other day because Joe's reading the book right now, actually, and so. Weren't you disappointed that it was like everything we already knew? I wanted more evidence, but I think they. He hadn't been. He hadn't pled guilty yet. So it was just everything that was public and not everything I want a comprehensive of, like, this was the evidence.

[A]

And then I think.

[B]

Then I think everyone will see differently and not maybe attack the roommate that much because there was so much. They had cell phone data. They had geotags on him. They had the sheath he ordered. He tried to hide that evidence and

[A]

no one ordered it.

[B]

Yeah, that's how they. That's how they initially found him. If he hadn't left the sheath behind, I don't know that they would have caught him because he left the sheath of the knife behind. They were able to find what it was. They asked Amazon, hey, who has bought this within the last X amount of time?

[A]

And he was on the list.

[B]

And he was on the list. And when they went in his account, he had tried to. To delete his purchase history. And it was like a special like marine knife or something.

[A]

You know what's crazy is chat GPT history and Google history.

[B]

Like, I'm so glad you brought that up because not. Not a lot of people know that we can absolutely get anything you've put in a chat gbt.

[A]

Yes. So that's because it's so new and there's not a whole lot of laws and, you know, they're starting to come up with them. They literally can subpoena.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they'll subpoena records and they

[B]

keep track of it all. Yeah.

[A]

And I don't.

[B]

Same thing with Snapchat. We can get all those messages too. That. That does not just go away. Like, people think, like, there is a record of everything.

[A]

And I'm looking at my chat like, I just asked ChatGPT. Such stupid shit.

[B]

Don't ever put legal questions in there and don't ever, please, dear God, nobody listening. Do not put what your lawyer sends you into there. It waives the privilege. So, like, if I say, hey, I think this is the strengths and weaknesses, this is what I want to do. If you put that in chat gbt, you are fucked.

[A]

Like I put. But it was about like a Lisa Grant agreement. Like, it was just like, can you summarize this?

[B]

Don't do it.

[A]

But it's a lease agreement.

[B]

Okay, Let me just tell you what this would look like, okay? I'm the mean lawyer deposing you and I go, isn't it true you asked the chap gbt, what is this about the lease agreement? If there's anything bad in a game, because it'll give you an honest opinion if the ways, depending on the prompt. So if there was something bad in there, like, it might not be enforceable because of xyz, I will be putting this in there like, well, you agreed with it on other things. Don't you agree with it now? Why'd you ask it that? Why didn't you ask it more about that? That like, people will beat the out of you in a depot with your chat GBT records. Just like, don't do it.

[A]

Okay. That was the. I mean, don't do it again. That was just. Hey, like, can you summarize this advice?

[B]

I would not ask it anything that. Anything. No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But also like, I see the worst of the worst on the back end where I'm like, okay, what am I going to do with this? Now that you put it and you spit it in chat gbt my last. But I just wouldn't put it in anything.

[A]

Fine.

[B]

Be safe. Be. Be smart.

[A]

But I normally just ask literal stupid ass on chat GPT. I am bl away by how stupid people are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, obviously the land at least.

[B]

I mean, I get some stupid. So I can't.

[A]

But I'm like average size, average family size in Europe. Like, that's what I'm trying.

[B]

Yeah. Those are all safe things. Just don't put anything. You might be like in litigation for what your lawyers say or anything because that would become bad.

[A]

But vegetarian veganism, environment debate. And I know that's what I'm looking

[B]

because it's like, okay, I could pay my lawyer this hourly rate or I could just ask free chat. What is things.

[A]

That's why I'm not asking it for.

[B]

For legal advice. People do. Because you get billed to read an email. Instead of talking about longer, you could just ask. I get why it's tempting. Just don't do it.

[A]

Like, I also looked up shark versus crocodile survival. Like, this is the that typically you would survive a shark attack over crocodile.

[B]

Because terrified of crocodiles.

[A]

Crocodiles are terrifying.

[B]

I'm terrified of them.

[A]

Cruise ship survival rates, if you fall

[B]

off, have you been seeing like all this stuff going? I'm scared of cruise ships?

[A]

No, cruise ships freak me the out because petri dish. There's no jurisdiction over some of those waters. So I mean, like the Amy Bradley

[B]

cruise ships want to keep things quiet and undercover because that's tourism. They don't want you to know if someone fell off and they didn't look for them, you know.

[A]

Okay, so that's all the time that we have. I wish I could talk to you longer. So if you want to come back, you're more than welcome. But where can people find you?

[B]

So I have all my social medias, all my own personal social media. I'm on Instagram, underscore page, Sparks. Tik Tok is lawyer page. That's how early I was that I got that name. Like during Lawyer page. I was like, I couldn't believe I could get that on Tik Tok. So that's on Tik Tok and then Facebook too. I just like, it's public. I just talked to people on there. But yeah, that's where to find me. Please don't ever call me if anyone needs help, I like you have to like twist my arm to. I'd answer if you call or like if Joe called. But please don't call me. You can email me if you have any questions. Pages sparks legal.org that's where you can find me.

[A]

Please don't call her.

[B]

Please don't call me. Please. I'm serious. So much. Thank you for having me.

[A]

Okay guys, we're back. You asked for it. And we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on kalelowry.com and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else.

[B]

Hi there, it's Becca Tobin. I am currently the mother of a

[A]

four year old, which means I have

[B]

been through it, but I still have

[A]

questions and maybe even a few answers.

[B]

From surrogacy to tough elder chaos, I have learned a lot and also not nearly enough. That's why I decided to launch Baby Gang, a six part series from the Lady Gang where I'm getting real about fertility, parenting and all the stuff nobody actually tells you. I'm bringing in some experts for the tough stuff and some other celeb moms and friends for parenting survival stuff.

[A]

It's honest, it's messy, it's emotional, and

[B]

yes, we are definitely laughing through it. Because whether you're in it, thinking about it, or just curious, we've got you. So join the Baby Gang wherever you get your podcasts. Hi everyone. I'm hospice nurse Julie and I have some bad news but also some good news.

[A]

Bad news?

[B]

We're all going to die. I know, but good news? That might be the best thing to

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ever happen to your priorities.

[B]

I've spent years at the bedside and what I've learned is simple. People don't usually regret the big things. They regret the small things, things they regret the things they didn't say. My new podcast, it's okay, We're All

[A]

Going to Die is where we talk

[B]

about the stuff everyone avoids.

[A]

Death, dying, and all of those.

[B]

We should probably talk about this someday conversations. So if you're looking for something that will help you check out. It's okay, We're All Going to Die. A gentle reminder that even the hardest topics can bring us closer together.

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Out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

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It's okay.

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We're all going to die.

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It's okay.

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We're all going to die.

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It's. It's okay.

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We're all gonna die. Hello and welcome to plutofo.

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