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Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're listening to. What you guys don't see behind the scenes is that internally I'm freaking the out. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I thought that maybe something would come up and she would cancel and then I just go live through this anxiety again. But let's welcome Frida McFadden into the barely Famous Podcast. Thank you, Frida, for coming on Barely Famous Podcast. I'm so excited to have you. Thank you.

Frida McFadden (2:07)

I'm so excited to be here.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (2:10)

I have to tell my listeners a funny little story. You're familiar with it. So I emailed Frida when, after I read, I think, one or two of your books, the first two that I ever read. And I emailed Frida and I was like, hey, if you want to collab on a book, like, I'm. I'm totally down. And Frida emailed back and she's like, I Don't. I don't do well with collabs. But, like, thank you. And I thought that was so funny and honest. And I literally remember telling my hair stylist, because she's the one that got me into your books. I said, I was just honored that you even said no to me. Like, that was fine. And I was completely okay with it because I was like, so many people just ghost you and not answer.

Frida McFadden (2:52)

I mean, I was excited, but there are still people that I know from, like, middle school who are mad at me over, like, group projects. They were like, she is so bossy. I'm sure they're talking about it in therapy. Like, I'm like, I. I know. I know myself at this point, so I'm like, yeah, I. I don't do collaboration well. I'm. I'm very bossy.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (3:16)

But, no, that's completely fine. I was just like, you miss 100% of shots that you don't take. So I had to, because my. My hairstylist I had read. I believe it was the Housemaid first. And then she was, like, just so consistent about asking me was I reading Never Lie yet. And so I was. I was like, finally let me read it. And so I think that's when I emailed you.

Frida McFadden (3:40)

Well, I was just excited to get the email. I mean, I have to tell you, like, I. I knew you were talking about my books, and I was so excited because, like, you're the first, like, celebrity whoever, like, mentioned. Not that there have been a lot in general, but for the first one, I was like, oh, my God, somebody famous is talking about my books. And I was like, oh, my God, I was so excited. So I will never forget that. It was so cool.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (4:06)

I will remember that until the end of time. So you have a new book coming out? Well, it. When this interview airs, this book, the boyfriend will have been out. So the boyfriend came out October 1st, and. And I got an art copy of it and was able to read it. I rated it 5 stars on Goodreads. I'm obsessed with this book, first of all. So can you tell us a little bit about how you came up with this story?

Frida McFadden (4:32)

Definitely. So, you know, I think, like, it was initially inspired by my mom because when I was a kid, she. My parents got divorced when I was, like, 3 years old. And so, like, my earliest memories of, like, ages 3 through 9 are, like, my mom dating, but old school dating. Like, what? It was, like, like, in the 80s, obviously dating myself. Like, you had to, like, put personal ads, like, in the newspaper like, there was not even like, Craigslist. It was just like the newspaper and there were these dances and she, you know, we were alone together. So I heard about all of it, even though I was like, you know, savage. So I think it just like stuck in my head as like, something that's sort of like the dating game in New York City as just like this kind of fascinating thing. And it was a little scary. Like, I think I didn't even know how scared to be of my mom doing this when I was like, a little kid. But. And you know, now as an, you know, as adult dating myself and my friends dating, and I just, like, I just find it really interesting. And the other thing I just want to mention is, like, I think there was like an angstiness in my head then because my younger daughter is really into this singer named Melanie Martinez. And she plays this very, and I love her too. She plays this very kind of angsty songs about relationships and, like, crazy relationships. And she's wonderful. And I think that was just like, playing in my head all the time. So it kind of inspired me to like her vibe. So it was for my, that was.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (6:21)

One of the biggest questions that I had gotten on social media when I said that we were doing this interview. People were like, does she ever pull inspo from her real life experiences or people? So that's actually really cool that this one specifically was inspired by like, just real life experiences.

Frida McFadden (6:35)

So much of it is inspired by real life stuff, like by, especially by younger daughter inspires a lot of characters. She was actually reading the Inmate recently and she was like, laughing. She's like, I said that. Like, she's like, you took that from a conversation we had? And I was like, yes, I did.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (6:57)

That's probably so cool for her that she gets to, you know, she gets to see herself or, like, pieces of you, you guys, you know, in the books that she's reading. So that's really cool that you let her read the books that you write. That's awesome.

Frida McFadden (7:08)

Yeah, I mean, she, I think I, I think my books are pretty. I mean, they have moments that are a little bit less PG13, but I think it's okay. You know, I don't curse a lot. There's no Stevie sex scenes. I, I, I kind of. Because I know my parents will read it, so that's always in my head, you know, So I, I make sure that they're, you know, something that I'm not embarrassed that anyone in my family will read it, because they will.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (7:37)

So, yeah, I actually Just let my son, he's 14, and I let him read one of your books for the first time and he picked that for our book club next month. So. Yeah, yeah, he, he loved it and so I thought that was really cool. I do like that they're really, you know, for everybody. The books are for everyone.

Frida McFadden (7:56)

Yeah, I love that when like, you know, a middle school age kid will message me and they're like, I loved your book. And that always warms my heart. I'm like, young people reading makes me.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (8:07)

Yes, that's actually what I actually said to. I just recently said that to one of my friends. I said I really wanted. I got back into reading. I wasn't really a super reader as a kid and then I, a couple years ago I just was like, let me start reading on planes because I actually have quiet time and I'm, I don't have kids when I'm traveling for work. And so I got back into reading and I said that to one of my girlfriends. They said, you know, I just want my kids to not see me on the phone all the time and to see me with a book. Like, if they're going to see me doing anything, let it be with a book. And so even my toddler, he'll pick up books and like just kind of page through them, which I think is cool because I'm like, okay, now I know that this is setting a good example.

Frida McFadden (8:49)

Exactly. I love that you talk about like books so much in your social media because everybody's talking about everything but books. It feels. Well, book talk, obviously they are. But like, you know, books are like, you know, kids don't read books anymore. There's too many other things. Like when I was a kid, you know, I read because there is nothing else. Like what do. Yeah, the only other thing that you go outside and play. I didn't want to do that. So, you know, there weren't options. But like, the kids have so many options. I love when people on social media are promoting books. I think that's so amazing that you do that.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (9:26)

Well, thank you. I actually, I love that I don't scroll as much because I'm always reading and if I can't read, I listen. So that's been a really, that's been a huge game changer because even my kids will be in the car, they're like, mom, is your book done? And I just laugh because I'm like, they not like they don't even realize that listening, reading, just flipping through books, that's. They're all really, really good habits. And so that's. I want to promote that more, you know, as I further myself in motherhood and my reading journey. So if someone is new to your books, can someone start with the boyfriend?

Frida McFadden (9:59)

Definitely. I mean, all my books are standalone, but there's no book. I'm going to say. Well, no, there are no. I would say, like, if you have a child, they probably shouldn't start with like the teacher. Like, I prefer that. Like, that's the one book. Like I said to my kids, don't read that yet when you're 18. But I think any of them are good places to start. I'm really proud of the boyfriend, so if someone started there, I'd be thrilled.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (10:26)

Oh, for sure. I hope that anyone that's listening to this that's new to their reading journey or new to Frida definitely pick up the boyfriend. I already promoted it all over my socials because it's so good. And for all the listeners who have not heard of boyfriend or they're about to go order it, what can they expect from this novel?

Frida McFadden (10:43)

It's about. It's sort of a typical dating novel in some ways in that it's a woman who's, you know, on a dating scene. She's in her 30s and one of her close friends is killed by a guy she was dating that she met on a dating app. So. And then she starts dating a new guy and some things about him are a little sus, as my kids would say. So, and I think what's a little different is you get a different perspective from a long time ago of a teenage boy and some very dark things that happened to him and they're sort of interwoven and it all comes together.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (11:29)

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Frida McFadden (14:46)

So the going back to my daughter again. So she's very into bugs. We actually have right now in our house two praying mantises. Their names are Fettuccine and Alfredo. We have a jumping spider named Smurfette. We have a roly poly farm. They are not all named. So she's very, very, very into bugs. And she actually wanted an ant farm. And I remember saying to her, like, my husband was like, supporting this. He's like, oh, this will be good. We should get her an ant farm. And he's. I'm like, they're going to get out. And he's like, you won't get out. And, like, they'll definitely get out. There's no way they're not getting out. Like an argument about this. So a lot of that was kind of inspired by her love of bugs. She actually wants to be an entomologist. I don't know if that will carry into adulthood, but, I mean, that's really cool.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (15:43)

How many. No, no kids. I know know what that is, but I learned about it in this book, so.

Frida McFadden (15:48)

Exactly.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (15:50)

I love that your daughter's teaching your readers about these things because that's really cool, though, for. I just can't get over that, like, being able to incorporate parts of your really, like, your personal life into these books. So what did you always want to be? An author?

Frida McFadden (16:05)

Am I an author? I'm still not sure. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I, you know, it was like, for me, it was just like, it didn't seem. I know. I know it's a real career, but, like, it seemed like not a realistic career. It's sort of like being an actor or something. It's something where to be successful at it. Like, as a career, you have to be very lucky. I think a lot of people who write books, you know, they don't make a living off of it. You have to do other things. So, like, I'm a very practical person. I'm just like, I like to write, and I did it constantly when I was a kid, but I, like, didn't think of it as, like, this is something I'll do as a career. Like, it was never something that even occurred to Me, honestly. So I just. I knew I wanted to be a physician. I was like that kid, 5 years old, I want to be a doctor. You know, and then I did it.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (17:02)

That's so cool, though. So at what point in, you know, maybe your adult life or young adult life did you realize, okay, I'm going to. You decided you were going to publish your first book?

Frida McFadden (17:13)

Well, I was always writing. Like, I never really stopped. Like, medical school residency, maybe a little less. But, you know, like, whenever I had time, I was always writing. And I did actually send books to publishers because. Or agents. Like, I tried to get an agent. I actually got an agent when I was 22. And I was so excited. I was like, this is it, this is it. And then they. They sent it around to publishers for a year and nothing. I guess that wasn't it. But, you know, I. I tried. Got a lot of rejections. And then self publishing became a thing, and I was like, oh, I'll just do that. And, you know, at the time, I had a blog I used to write in. It's now gone. But, you know, I had an audience, so I was like, hey, audience. I wrote a book. Buy my book. So. And you know, people did, and I sold, I think, 500 copies. And I was like, this is great. I've lived my dream of publishing a book. Yeah. And that was gonna be it. And then it just. Then I got another idea. I was like, oh, write another book. And then I just kept getting ideas and I was kind of like, I managed to publish one a year, and then I. I cut back a little on my job and my kids got a little older. You actually have time when they get older again. And I was publishing a little more frequently, and then it just. Yeah, it really just took off all of a sudden. And I didn't mean it to. And I'm still kind of surprised.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (18:50)

So was it more of like a passion project for you because you're. Were you self publishing all that time?

Frida McFadden (18:55)

Yeah, up until the House Made was actually my first book that was not self published.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (19:02)

Wow. Okay, so what book came directly before I found. I. I think. I think I've. I own every single book that you've ever written, all the way back to. I think the. Is the first one. Baby City.

Frida McFadden (19:14)

No, my first one is the Devil Wears Scraps.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (19:18)

Okay, I have that one. I'm looking at it right now. So I do have. I have them in alphabetical order. Not publishing date. Okay, so you, You. You've been writing thriller or suspense novels since the beginning of time.

Frida McFadden (19:31)

So the. The Devil Wears Scrubs is not suspense.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (19:34)

That is.

Frida McFadden (19:35)

So I was. I started out writing, like, women's fiction, but I always love reading suspense thriller. And at the point where I was, like, reading a lot of them, I was like, I could do this. And then I. And then I started doing it and I would say my first. Like, I had some kind of medical thrillers, so I had Suicide Mad, which I recently republished is Dead Mad, which is. It's sort of a funny story, but just a little segue on this. You can't say the word. I think I can say it here. Suicide. You can't say it on. On Facebook. So the book. Every time anyone mentioned the book, like, the post would get deleted or it would get warnings. So I had to republish it as Dead Mad, which I have both.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (20:27)

I have Suicide Med and Dead Med. I just. That's probably my most recent one is the Dead Med. But you also edited. Edit it. Edited. I can't even say the word. Edited it.

Frida McFadden (20:40)

I edited it. Yeah. There was a plot point in the original, and it was. With my first thriller, the plot point was. Was embarrassingly bad. Like, I don't.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (20:54)

It was.

Frida McFadden (20:54)

I'm not even going to say it was. It was so stupid. Like, I don't know. I was. I. I wrote the first draft of it when I was 26, I think. Ish. 25. 26, so 25. You know, your brain is, like, not entirely myelinated. The process is, you know, almost done, but, you know, you're 25. And so I edited it when I published. I was a little older, but I. I didn't see a way to take that part out. It was just bad and it was embarrassing me. Anytime anybody would be like, I read this book, Suicide Mad. That was weird. I'm sorry. So. And you know, people, you know, I couldn't just say backlist, who cares? You know, because people were reading it. Like, a lot of people were reading it. And I finally, you know, I told my agent, Christina. I was like, I really want to redo this book. And she's like, oh, you know, is it that important? And I said, this is what happens in it. And she's like, oh, yeah, you should definitely redo that right now. Should I just say what it is?

Podcast Host/Interviewer (22:01)

Go ahead. Yeah.

Frida McFadden (22:03)

Like a character has an eye on his butt. So, yeah, like, you could see why I didn't want that in a book anymore. So, yeah. So I said to my agent, yeah, character has a butt eye. And she's like, yeah, you did fix that.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (22:26)

So to be fair, you're a physician, so I feel like some people are.

Frida McFadden (22:32)

Like, yeah, this is realistic. This could. Maybe she's seen this happen. No, I have not seen this happen.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (22:41)

You've never seen that. Okay, so now we've clarified that. You've never actually seen it, but it is. It is. It could happen. Sure.

Frida McFadden (22:51)

So anyway, I took it down off, you know, Amazon. I like, you know, I unpublished it. I got the audiobook down. But the thing with, like, the paperbacks is Amazon has to, like, sell out their stock. So I couldn't just, like, say to Amazon, like, throw all of the piece out. Like, they wouldn't do that. Like, so, like, I took it down and people noticed that, oh, my God, she unpublished this book. I have to get a copy. So, like, this book about the but eye that I'm embarrassed for anyone to read suddenly is like, number one on Amazon beating, like, Anthony Fauci's book. I'm just like, oh, my God. And people are like, oh, you must have planned this. I was like, I did not plan this. This is humiliating. And finally they sold out our copies. But I. I did not plan this.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (23:51)

I mean, I kind of love it. Just for conversational purposes, you'll always have this story to tell. And also, I did. I read a post, I believe it was, by you, on your Facebook fan group that basically was like, please don't read this. And so I. I won't read it specifically for that post, but I will read what happens. Yeah, so I will read de, but I won't. I won't read Suicide Med for you.

Frida McFadden (24:19)

Like it. I'm a much better, you know, plotter than I was back when I published. So.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (24:25)

But that speaks to your growth, right? Like as a writer and with all of your plot twists and things like that. All right, let's talk about struggling with focus, productivity, efficiency, all of the things, right? Maybe you have ADHD like me and you're looking for tools to help you. I have a solution for you. Everyday dose has a combination of coffee and nootropics and lion's mane that helps with focus and mood improvement, which is amazing. One of my girlfriends told me about this because she also has adhd and she was like, here, Kale, I have a solution because I was just using regular coffee multiple times every single day. An everyday dose is actually coffee plus benefits. They combine the high quality coffee with powerful ingredients. Like I was saying, lion's mane and chaga collagen protein and nootropics to fuel your brain. Boost focus and give you clean, sustained energy all day long. But what I love about this is that it tastes the same same as coffee without the downside. So there's no crash, no jitters, just clean sustained energy. And you guys can get 61 off your first coffee plus starter kit, a free A2 probiotic creamer with over a hundred dollars in free gifts by going to everydaydose.com famous or entering famous at checkout. That's everydaydose.com famous for 61 off your first order. Everyday Dose is also available at your local target. All right, y' all know I run a million podcasts and I have my own podcast network. But I would never have been able to do all of that without Shopify. I'm telling you 2026 is the year you launch your business. I'm manifesting it for you. I also have killer sports about to launch, so that's really exciting for me. And I will be using Shopify every step of the way. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. And millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap from household names to first time business owners. Just getting started Shopify is amazing. It gives you all the tools to easily build your dream store. You can choose from hundreds of beautiful templates that you can customize to match. Your brand setup is fast with Shopify's built in AI tools that write product descriptions and headlines and help you edit the product photos. But the marketing is built into you can create an email and social campaigns that reach customers wherever they scroll. And as you grow, Shopify grows with you. So you can handle more orders, expand new markets and do it all from the same exact dashboard. So I say all that to say this in 2026. Stop waiting to start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com barelyfamous go to shopify.com barely famous. That's shopify.com barely famous. Hear your first this new year with Shopify by your side. I know I guess your newer works versus Suicide Med but I, I'm always think that I'm on it. Like I, I think I have it down to what's going to happen next and then every single time I'm wrong. So how do you one, how do you come up with the plot twist? And two, how do you teach yourself and learn from, you know, every book experience in writing the plot twists?

Frida McFadden (27:26)

I think you know what I've realized recently is it's not the twist is important. And I Don't know how I come up with them. It's just my brain. Like, I, I, if I wasn't a doctor, I probably would have become a mathematician because I was, like, on the math team. I love puzzles, so I'm. This is like a puzzle in reverse for me. Like, I'm okay. So I think that's, like, why I'm good at the twist. But I realized recently, like, it's not even so much what the twist is, but the red herrings. Like, if there's another twist that people think it's going to be, that's actually even more important than the twist that it actually is. Like, it's like when you're, they say, like when you're on trial, like, if you're on trial for murder, like, you not only want to convince the jury that you didn't do it, you want to give them another theory, like an alternate person who could have done it. And if they believe that, oh, this other person probably did it, they're not going to think you did it. So that's kind of what it's like. Like, you're, you're giving them, you give them an alternate theory. And then I see a lot on Facebook. People will be reading my books and are like, I figured it out. I'm on the 10th page. I know. So I try to, you know, to do that to make people think they figured it out. But it's actually, you know, the, the alternate theory for court.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (28:52)

Did you ever think about becoming a lawyer for that reason, since you're kind of able to give people another theory, as. You know what I mean?

Frida McFadden (29:00)

Yeah, I, I mean, I think, I think I'm not outgoing enough to be a lawyer like all the other lawyers I know. Like, they're very, like, they love performing, and I'm not like that. I'm, I, I'm a little. I'm more of an introvert, actually. Like, writer, you know, like.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (29:17)

Yeah.

Frida McFadden (29:18)

So I, I don't think I could perform in a courtroom. I think I'd be terrible at that.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (29:22)

I mean, I don't know. I'm having a good time here. We've laughed a lot. So I don't know. So when you were. I'm not sure where you stand in your career as a physician if you are still a practicing physician. But, you know, either way, how did you find the time to write while you were, While you are a physician? Because I would imagine that being a physician demands a lot of hours and time and. Yeah, I'm sure you take some work home with you. And as you've mentioned, you have a husband and kids. So what was that like? Were there deadlines? Were you ever stressed with, you know, writing and being a physician and a mom and a wife?

Frida McFadden (29:57)

Definitely. Like, I, you know, at first, you know, when I was self publishing and I was doing one book a year, it was fine. It was like a hobby. It was just like something to do, you know, like in my spare time, the little spare time I had. And then I cut back my physician work, and at the point that I had a publisher, like, I started working with source books and we were publishing a little bit more frequently and it was becoming more of a career. It started to feel like I'm doing two careers, plus I've got two kids. And I was like, I can't do all this. Like, it was last summer, I believe, when I was trying to make it work because I didn't want to stop being a doctor. I love being a doctor. And I was just like, I can't. I need to keep doing this, but I need to keep writing because I love that too. And I just couldn't choose. And I think it was last summer when I was trying to write and things kept getting in the way and I had no time, and I was like, almost having panic attacks, like, how am I going to get this done? How am I going to get this done? And I finally, like, begged a retired co worker to cover me for a week so I could just finish something I was working on. And he came and I got caught up. And I'm like, I did it. I did it. And then a week later, I was like, completely behind again and stressed, and I was just like, no, I didn't do it. I can't do it. And I realized I have to make a decision. I have to decide am I going to do the writing thing or am I going to do the doctor thing? And the writing thing is like, I love being a doctor, but the writing thing is, like, my passion. And it's one of those things, like, you know, if I let this opportunity go, like, it might never come back to me. Like, I'll always have my medical license. I can go back to that. But I felt like I had to see through this writing thing. And I still do work as a doctor. I come in on weekends and, you know, and I need people then. And I also, like, cover vacations and I do stuff, some teaching with the residents. So, like, I. I do still keep my hands in it. I keep my skills up so that, you know, 10 years from now, maybe things are not going so well in the writing world. I'll go back to being a doctor again, so. But I just couldn't do it all, especially with my kids still at home.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (32:23)

Like, for sure. I mean, kids in any profession is. I mean, just that balance, that work life balance, I think is. Is tough. But I think it's kind of cool that you still get to keep your hands in being a physician and keeping your your up, because it's almost like your careers flipped places, so you didn't really give one up completely for the other. But you know, where being a physician took precedence before. And then writing was your. Your passion project on the side. Now they've kind of flipped. So I think that, I mean, you're doing an incredible job balancing everything, so I think that's awesome. When you got. When you're writing, do you kind of go into your writing process with an idea already sort of formed, or do you sit down and maybe you have not and you come up with it just when you start writing?

Frida McFadden (33:11)

Yeah, that's the whole Plotter versus Pantser. Pants are beans. Like, you come up with it by the seat of your pants. Like, I do think that needs explanation if you've never heard it before. So, yeah, I am definitely a plotter, you know, with the twists. Like, if you're coming up with a puzzle and you need to know, like, how it ends, like, you can't. You can't come up with that. Like, like you're sort of. You're gonna write yourself into a corner if you do that. I have to know where it's going other. So I could set it up and have it, like, come to this final conclusion. And I'm not somebody who writes out every little scene. Like, I don't have a little notebook with all the themes. But I do know what the twist is gonna be. I know where the major characters are. I know what the general plot arc is going to be. And I spend months, like, planning it out in my head and thinking about it and all the characters. And my other thing that I do is I tell my husband the plot and he will say to me, like, that sucks. Do better. He doesn't give me ideas. He has a math PhD, so he's very analytical too. So, like, he'll poke holes in it. He's like, well, no one would really do that. Or like, that's ridiculous. That's a terrible twist. And then I'll say, like, well, do you have any ideas? He's like, no, you're the writer. So, yeah, so. But, you know, if he says it's cool, then I'm like, okay, I can. I can run with this. Like, that's really what I'm looking for. I'm like, the thumbs up or the thumbs down? So I. I make sure I get that thumbs up before I start writing.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (34:53)

You and your husband seem to be debunking the theory that if you're good at math and sciences, you're not the best writer. Because I. I feel like if your husband has a PhD in math and you're a doctor and would have been, you know, in the math field, this goes against everything we're taught in school. So I just need the younger listeners of this podcast and younger free to readers to keep an open mind. Because just because you're good at math doesn't mean you can't write and vice versa.

Frida McFadden (35:19)

That is true. I love math. I'm actually relearning calculus right now because my. My teenager is taking calculus and I'm like, I need to, like, like, bone up on it.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (35:31)

Yeah.

Frida McFadden (35:33)

And I'm like, having so much fun. I'm like, going through the problem. I'm like, I love stuff.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (35:37)

Well, your next character, there's the inspiration for your next book. And your next character, she or he can be math and a writer. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Frida McFadden (35:45)

I keep telling my husband he and I should write not a whole book, but maybe like a novella together. Because a whole book, I think we kill each other. Like, as I was telling you, I can't collect up. But he said, you know, you would have to basically tell me exactly what to write. Like, so he's willing to be bossed around.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (36:02)

But, I mean, fair, fair.

Frida McFadden (36:04)

He's like, if you could, like, tell me every scene. And like, he's like, maybe I'll do it.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (36:09)

So, I mean, I'm. I would definitely buy it. I think that would be fantastic. I think people are very invested, too, in who you are outside of writing. I've seen so many theories about who you are, your identity, and I actually read a theory this morning that AI actually writes your books. Have you seen that?

Frida McFadden (36:28)

Oh, all. I mean, that is like. It's funny you say that because I. That is like the theory with every author that, like, every author, really, they're like. They're like, yeah, they're. They're probably AI. I've seen it a ton, and me and other authors, I don't want to mention anyone by name, but I saw a couple others getting really upset over it, and I'm not upset. I mean, I think, I don't know, it's almost a compliment. They're like, this is so. This seems like the perfection of a machine.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (36:59)

I don't know. No, I agree. When I read that it was funny. That's how you know she's good. If you think that AI wrote the books, then you know she's good.

Frida McFadden (37:08)

Yeah. If you actually like use chat GPT and like, like see what it comes up with though. Like, like it would never like have something like as dark as a murder. Like there's, it's so like gentle. Like it'd be like. And he killed her. But he did, he felt really bad and he turned himself in. Like it couldn't like AI is like they're being very careful to keep it from getting evil. I think they're reprogramming it.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (37:34)

Yeah.

Frida McFadden (37:35)

Compassion or something. So any AI, it's like super nice.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (37:40)

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Frida McFadden (39:49)

I'm allowed to say some. Yeah. So the house made. I. I can't give all the details, but that was picked up by Hidden Pictures, slash, Lions Gate. And we have a script, so that's very exciting. I don't know if I'm allowed to say anymore, but okay, that one very excited about. And the co worker was picked up by Sony and a script is in the works and they have two really amazing script writers working on it and that. I think they're going for a TV show, so.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (40:23)

Okay.

Frida McFadden (40:24)

And then Never Lie was picked up by Netflix. And 21 laps with Shawn Levy. So it's like the. The Wolverine. Deadpool.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (40:40)

Yeah. Yeah.

Frida McFadden (40:41)

I was like, oh, my God, I saw that article. And I had just seen the movie, too, which I loved. I'm like, a massive, like, you know, Marvel fan.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (40:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Frida McFadden (40:50)

I was just like, oh, my God. I didn't even know it was the same people. I'm, like, clueless about everything. And I. I was, like, so proud of that article. I was, like, sending it to everyone. Like. Like, Deadpool is making my movie.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (41:08)

That's.

Frida McFadden (41:09)

That's. That's what it was, right? Deadpool's making my movie. That was my assignment of the whole thing.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (41:14)

I love that, though. That's so exciting. So will you get a hand in any of the casting?

Frida McFadden (41:19)

Probably not. Like, people are asking me. They're like, can I be in your movie? I mean, I don't have any way to make that happen.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (41:27)

Right.

Frida McFadden (41:29)

I'm, you know, I'm just excited to see who they cast, so.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (41:33)

For sure.

Frida McFadden (41:34)

I definitely don't think I'm gonna get much say in it, but that's okay.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (41:37)

I mean, I have. I have a couple ideas for Millie's character. We talk about this a lot in book club. When we read a book, the first question I ask is who we would cast for characters if something got picked up. And I also just Want to say that I absolutely love Dawn Shift. Like, we are big, big co worker fans in my. In my book club. In order initiated into book club, you have to read the co worker. And we refer to each other as turtles because we just love it. And I saw your post. So you did a post in your Facebook group talking about how, you know, you see sort of like the negative comments or feedback that you get on the books. And I think one of the lines said that you were like, I get it. That the turtles were overkill. I personally don't agree. I loved it. I loved on ship and I love the turtles. I did not think it was overkill.

Frida McFadden (42:30)

I'm glad to hear that. You know, you never know. Like, I. I gave this to a beta reader before publication, and she actually said more turtles. She's like, add more. Like, nobody prior to publication was like, this could be too many turtles. Like, that was never hinted at. Like, that's the weird thing about publication. Like, what you hear, like, prior to the arc advanced copies going out is totally different from what you hear when the advanced copies go out. And that's totally different from what you hear when everybody gets it. So, like, the turtle thing, that I kind of heard pretty quickly. But, like, there are other things that, like, I didn't realize, you know, like, were issues until, like, the book was to the masses. And at that point, you really can't change anything. So self publishing, you could change a lot, like, when it's in advanced copies. But I'm glad that, like, I didn't know about that because, you know, it. Like, I think people. It's hard. I. I wanted dawn to be a certain kind of person, and I think if I cut back in the turtles, it would have. It would have hurt her character in my head. So.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (43:46)

I agree. I love John. I don't. In my opinion, I didn't see anything wrong. Anything else wrong with the. I didn't think anything was wrong with the book to begin with. And if anything, it added to her quirkiness. I mean, that's what I said about the boyfriend. I loved the nickname and the. The quirks with the bugs and. And, you know, I just loved all of that. I think that it's. It sets it apart from other thrillers and suspense novels that we read, you know, so if you're a suspense girly or. Or. Or guy and you read suspense novels, that's something that's missing from other books that we read, in my opinion. Yeah. I have my own personal question about the housemate is watching so in the Housemaid Is Watching, there's a line that you wrote in the book that said something along the lines of the third book in a series is never the best.

Frida McFadden (44:36)

Yeah.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (44:37)

Talk about that.

Frida McFadden (44:38)

So, yeah, like, I'm not gonna lie and say that book was easy for me to read and, like, I really wanted to write it. I'm sorry. Easy for me to write. I really, really wanted to write it. And it wasn't, like, about money or anything. I just felt like there was. Was more to the story, like, and.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (44:54)

Right.

Frida McFadden (44:54)

And my readers wanted it so much, and I was just like, I really want to give it this end. I had an idea and I was like, I love this idea. But, you know, sometimes you're writing a book and it's flowing and you're like, the words are like, just, like, flying onto the page. And it wasn't happening with this one. And part of it was just. That was the summer that I was struggling just between careers, but I was just. I was struggling a lot with the book, and I was scared because I wanted it to be great. Like, I wanted so badly for people to love it. I didn't want it to just be like, oh, she just did this as a money grab. I wanted so badly for people to be like, this is the ending we were hoping for. I wanted. You know, I really wanted that. So, like. But, you know, I. I was not connecting as much. And I had that problem with the first two books, too, so I wasn't 100% worried about it yet. But, yeah, I put in that line just because it almost like, took the pressure off of me because I felt like, you know what? Like, you know, it doesn't have to be the most amazing thing that's ever been written ever. You know, like, there are going to be people who don't love it as much as the first two. Like, I've read theories where I love the first two and didn't like the third one. And I was like, and that's okay if people don't like it as much as the first two. Like, just write the book you want to write, tell the story you want to tell, and it's okay. And it sort of like, it almost like, freed me up after writing that line to just be like, okay, like, I don't have to put so much pressure on myself. This is going to be okay.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (46:38)

And it absolutely was okay. And I. I love that, for one. I mean, just even talking about it on the podcast, I feel like humanizes you. And for anybody who didn't Maybe love it or. Or maybe didn't love it as much as they like the first two. I think this will give them some context and understand that. I mean, you're an author, but you're human too, right? And so you wanted to write it like you said, and you want. The readers wanted it, so you did your best. I loved it. I feel like it put a little bit of you in the book, and so that's really good.

Frida McFadden (47:05)

Like, if my. If my daughter ever reads it, she's just gonna be, well. Or the praying mantis in the back. Right. It.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (47:13)

That. Oh, my gosh. I didn't even think about that. You're right. The praying mantis about it.

Frida McFadden (47:20)

And she did once interrupt us to tell us that the praying mantis was molting. So funny.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (47:31)

I know. I love that.

Frida McFadden (47:33)

Yeah. Now I'm blushing. But yeah.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (47:39)

So if you. You were having. You were going through some stuff at the time when you were writing that, but. And maybe didn't connect the way that you wanted to. Do you have a most favorite book out of all of the ones that you've written or a couple favorites?

Frida McFadden (47:51)

I mean, I love the Boyfriend was an easy one to write. I really enjoyed that one. The Inmate is another one that, like, I really connected with. I was, like, super excited to write it, and I was just, you know, rereading it when we re. Released it, and I was like, oh, I love. As you know, that's another.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (48:08)

Okay. And do you have a favorite character from any of the books?

Frida McFadden (48:12)

You know, I always. I don't. I don't want to say, because then, like, if I say, you know, I love this guy, you'll know if he's good or bad. So.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (48:22)

Okay. Okay.

Frida McFadden (48:24)

Spoilers.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (48:25)

Fair. I actually, if I ever had another child, I love the name Miller and Millie. Like, those two are so good. And Millie, for a girl, I just love that so much. And I have a feeling that we're gonna see a huge surge in Millie and Enzo as names in the coming years.

Frida McFadden (48:44)

So cool. Like, I. I was just, you know, watching Friends was my. One of my favorite shows. I saw an old episode, and I remember, like, when Rachel named her baby Emma. Like, every child was named Emma for a while. And just to be part of anybody naming their child something because of me, like, oh, my God, that's just, like, so cool.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (49:04)

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Frida McFadden (50:39)

I think, you know, obviously good reviews are great. I love good reviews. But I feel like I learn a lot from bad reviews like I read, especially the early ones. I just want to know. I want to grow as a writer. I want to know Too many Turtles or well, you know, whatever. Like I want to know what I did and I definitely learned from them. And like, so they're important to me. Like, of course I wish every review is like amazing, but. And sometimes they're entertaining. So like, here's an aside. So I recently published, I don't know if you saw it, like a satirical novella.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (51:20)

I bought it.

Frida McFadden (51:22)

So it's called the Widow's Husband's Secret Lie. So it's basically like 150 pages of me making fun of myself. So, you know, in general, you know, while good review bad reviews are hard to hear, I felt like in this case because the whole thing was just meant to be like a joke. Like I actually was really amused by some of the bad reviews. I thought they were really funny. And I actually. Because they're like making fun of me making Fun of myself. It's like very meta somehow.

Advertiser/Guest Speaker (51:56)

So.

Frida McFadden (51:57)

So actually, if you'll indulge me. So I actually I. I wrote down some of them. Some of the bad reviews of the novel.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (52:07)

Yeah.

Frida McFadden (52:07)

So I. I was recently discovered, if you watch Jimmy Kimmel, he has this thing where celebrities read mean tweets about themselves. Have you ever seen that?

Podcast Host/Interviewer (52:18)

Oh yeah, I've seen these and they're so, so funny.

Frida McFadden (52:22)

And I watched them and I'm like jealous because I'm like, I want to read meme stuff about myself. So I wrote down some of the. Some of these reviews and I'd like if it's okay to do a dramatic reading.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (52:37)

Absolutely, Absolutely. We love this.

Frida McFadden (52:40)

Okay. So I'm not an actor. Like they are. So I'll just do my best past.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (52:46)

Okay.

Frida McFadden (52:46)

I had no idea what a satirical novel was going. Was going into this. And it's safe to say now that I do know that I absolutely cannot stand this time kind of novel. Literally the worst. Not funny at all. Just bad.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (53:05)

No.

Frida McFadden (53:07)

Just no. This is the dumbest book book I have ever read in my life. I don't know if this was all a joke. Was only like 150 pages and was weird the entire way through. This attempt at humor was shitty and the twists were useless. Note to self, don't read another one of Ms. McFadden's sacirical novels. So stupid. LOL. Still thinking about how stupid this was. This one just like an eye roll. It's just like an eye roll emoji. That was like the whole review. Like, fair. It's fair. I didn't find it funny. Mostly just Frieda making fun of her own books, which is what I do too. I have never read a satirical novel before and now I understand why.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (54:06)

I mean.

Frida McFadden (54:10)

That was my dramatic reading.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (54:12)

I mean, I loved it. I feel like that should be the clip in and of itself is. Is you reading those. But I just. What do people think when they're reading, when they're writing these reviews? I would love to know.

Frida McFadden (54:22)

I. I mean, I thought these were kind of funny, but they were.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (54:25)

They were funny. I just, I don't especially.

Frida McFadden (54:28)

I was just like, yeah, that could sum it up. Like I can imagine. Like if my husband were true view that book. That would be.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (54:36)

He'd be like, this is so dumb. Or what? What did he say to you? Oh, that's a. That's a terrible idea.

Frida McFadden (54:41)

Yeah. This is so stupid. Lol.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (54:46)

I mean, at least you're getting some entertainment out of the reviews.

Frida McFadden (54:51)

Like I can Only, you know, if you can't laugh at yourself like that, you know, especially as a writer. Like, for sure, you know, if you're like, you know, you, you, if you're like, some people think of a brain surgeon. Not a brain surgeon, but like, if you go to a brain surgeon and they're like, aha, I'm so bad at this, like, that's not good. You don't want that.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (55:10)

But like, I, I never go to a surgeon that says that.

Frida McFadden (55:15)

Right. But like an author, you could just be, you know, you can say, okay, you know, some people like it, some people don't. I'm not, you know, who's an amazing, I'm not Shakespeare. Not, you know, see somebody objectively amazing. Like, I'm, you know, some people like it, some people don't. So good.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (55:33)

There was a, I don't remember the name of it. It was like the couple across the street in the, I don't remember.

Frida McFadden (55:40)

It was like a satire that Kristen Bell. It was like a Netflix. I didn't see it. I think I, I saw the ads for it, but yeah, the Window Woman Watching. I think it was a spoof of the Woman in the Window or, or something like that.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (55:55)

Yes. And I didn't know what satire was before that, and I, I fall for it every time. Like, even on Tick Tock, there's accounts that are specifically satire and I fall for it every single time. And sometimes it takes people, but that's what it, it's entertaining if nothing else. And then I call myself out later and be like, I didn't even realize that was satire or I didn't realize that was rage bait. And you know what, it's all entertainment, so.

Frida McFadden (56:20)

Yeah, it is what it is. Like, I, I, I don't take anything very seriously. I feel like, you know, in life you gotta laugh at yourself. You gotta laugh at things and, you know, that's, Otherwise you just go crazy.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (56:35)

So do you think you'll write another satirical novella?

Frida McFadden (56:40)

I feel like I got it out of my system here, but, you know, who knows? But I'm not, I'm not planning any. It was sort of a one time thing. I think I got all my books in there. I kind of said what I needed to say, so I, it's, it's not on the agenda.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (56:59)

Okay, that's fair. Do you have any sequels or other interconnected books happening or in the works?

Frida McFadden (57:07)

I just feel like, you know, sometimes I, I love the characters and I want to like continue them, but I feel like just the presence of a Sequel with a thriller is sort of like a spoiler. So, like, if I were writing bromance, sure, I could, you know, bang out the sequels, but, like, just like a character from the first book being in the second one is a spoiler. So I. I don't know how to do it in a way that doesn't spoil the first book. So I'm mostly focusing on standalone now. I don't know if I'll ever do another series. I don't want to say never, but it's definitely not a thought in my head right now.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (57:49)

So when I finished Ward D at the. I believe it was Ward D at the end, it starts. It shows you, like a passage from the Inmate. Yeah, I believe. I wasn't paying attention. I don't know what I was doing, but I was like, oh, my God, there's a sequel. And I thought that it was a sequel. It's not a sequel. So I realized. So my. My hairstylist also friend, she was like, kayl, that is not. Because I texted her. I was like, did you see the sequel? And she was like, like, I need you to go back and, like, reread what you just sent me, because that's absolutely not a sequel. And I was cracking up because I clearly wasn't paying attention. But that's. I get what you're saying. Yeah, that makes sense.

Frida McFadden (58:28)

What's funny is, like, you know, other people have been fooled by that. Like, I just want to say, like, somebody once, like, sent me an email, and they thought that that extra chapter was part of the book, and they were like, I don't understand. That last chapter had to do with everything else. Like, it kind of ruined it. With last chapter, I'm like, that's a different book. But, yeah, pay attention.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (58:53)

Because if anyone is listening to this and you get to the end and there is a passage for, you know, what's next? Probably not a sequel. Pay attention. At that point, you just send them a link to the book itself and be like, here you go. Like, maybe this. Understand? That's so funny. So if there's anything that you could say to your readers or future readers that maybe haven't started any of your books yet, what would it. What would it be? What would you say? Say.

Frida McFadden (59:16)

I guess I would just say, like, to my readers who are already reading my books, I want to say thank you. Because, you know, I, like, my readers are, like, incredible. Like, they're so supportive and nice. I have this reader Facebook group, and people are so nice. Like, sometimes I'm reading It, I'm just like almost crying. I'm like, you guys are so nice. And you know, to people like, like who haven't read my books, I just want to say, like, you know, just have fun. These books are supposed to be fun. They're not supposed to be. It's not War and Peace. It's. It's supposed to be a good time. Like, I always look at it as a fun ride and you know, don't. You don't have to read into it deeply. Like, just have fun with it and if you're not having fun, then, you know, maybe I'm not for you and that's okay.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (60:06)

No, I absolutely love these books. They brought me out, they bring me out of reading slumps. Got me really right back into reading. And if anyone needs a recommendation, come to me. I'm your girl. I will send you all the recommendations free to books I own, I think every single one. But for those who may be interested in starting their journey as an author, do you have any advice as far as self publishing or, or how to get started?

Frida McFadden (60:31)

Yeah, I mean I am. I have a lot of real, real life friends who are like starting out as authors and, and I mean, my main advice is just do it. Just do it. You know, like, don't sit on it. Don't, you know, like, you learn by doing. My first thriller had a but eye in it. Okay, so like whatever is in your book, it's not as bad as that. I mean it can't be. Where else could the eye be? So just do it because you'll learn from it. You'll learn. Don't put bad eyes in your book or other things. You'll learn other things too. I also recommend this book called Save the Cat Writes a Novel. And it's an excellent book about how to plot a novel. And I've learned a lot about plotting over the years. I used to think that a book was just a bunch of things that happen and there doesn't have to be any cohesion but, but you know, like, there does need to be a plot. So a book like that will really teach you about the plot arc. So I recommend that to everyone. It's very helpful. Like, I could tell like when I my friends who like after they read it, their plots get so much tighter. So I highly recommend that. So. But yeah, just do it. Like self publishing is a thing and you know, you're only going to learn from experience.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (61:59)

Experience for sure. I would agree with that. Oh, and really quickly, someone else also asked if you have A favorite book or a favorite author yourself?

Frida McFadden (62:08)

I have so many recently, I've actually been binging Stephen King audiobooks.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (62:18)

Oh.

Frida McFadden (62:18)

And I. I was. He's a favorite of mine when I was younger and I'm like, listening and I. I've discovered audiobooks recently and love them. And I'm listening to the Institute now and I'm just like, it's so good. And the narrator is so good and like, I'm just like looking forward to doing things that I can, like, put them, you know, my earphones in and listen. It's so right now that's like, you know, my book of. Love it.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (62:48)

I love that. And where can people find you? For anyone who is listening that wants to join your Facebook group group or follow you on socials, where can they find you?

Frida McFadden (62:57)

I've. So I've got a reader group on Facebook. It's. You could search for Frida McFans or freedom at that and Facebook reader group, something like that. I'll pop up. I'm on Instagram. You can follow me. You could also just follow me on Facebook. But the group is really fun because I post there a lot and I try to read most of the posts and I do a lot of giveaways there of like signed copies and. And if there are signed copies for sale, like, I'll announce it first in that group because they do sell out quickly. So any, any news, I'll put in that group first, so you get dibs. So I hope people go.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (63:36)

Once people told me about that group, I immediately was like running to join the group. And I love it there. I've seen a lot of support just for you. Even if they have criticism, it's constructive. I feel mostly, oh yeah, people are.

Frida McFadden (63:48)

Very nice and like, like, sometimes the other mods will, like, if somebody says, oh, I didn't like this book, they'll like reject the post because they don't want me to feel hurt. But I'll always let it through. I'm like, yeah, that's like nothing much. At least they didn't use the trash bin emoji or a poop emoji. Like, if they didn't use one of those two emojis, I. I consider it a nice review.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (64:12)

See, that's so nice that you are like welcoming all types of opinions and review, please.

Frida McFadden (64:18)

No, I just want to know, like, like, I just want to get better and know what people think. So.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (64:23)

Well, I love that you have the boyfriend that is out now. You guys can get your copy on Amazon, your local bookstore anywhere you guys get your books. I believe most of your books are on Kindle Unlimited, is that right?

Frida McFadden (64:34)

Yeah. So most, almost all of my ebooks are on Kindle Unlimited. Yeah. So you can get it for free if you have Kindle Unlimited.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (64:43)

And then you guys can also pre order the Crash that comes out January 2025. I already have it pre ordered which I'm so excited about.

Frida McFadden (64:50)

I'll have to get you an arc though.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (64:53)

I would be happy to read one. I'll never turn down one of your arcs. That would be fantastic. So you guys can order, pre order that one on Amazon as well or wherever you guys pre order your books. And thank you so so much for joining us on Barely Famous.

Frida McFadden (65:06)

Thank you for having me. It's been so much fun. Sam.

Podcast Host/Advertiser (66:11)

Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street Ted, the Expendables and so much more on Pluto TV. Stream now pay Never. I'm Justin Sylvester. And I'm Blake Lee Thornton. Join us for Yesterdays, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give them the queer love that they deserve. The things that got us riled up during dial up, those makeouts that should have been breakouts and the drops that were cemented in pop. I'm talking Bennifer, Tyra versus Naomi, Tom Cruise jumping on that couch and so much more. So please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or anywhere you get audio related content. We also take memo and cash app ach or credit card number as well. We're malleable, you know we're gay today.

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