Faith, Love & Building Agape with Codi and Tabby

Summary

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Barely Famous with Kail Lowry

Episode: Faith, Love & Building Agape with Cody and Tabby

Air date: May 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply honest, lively, and at times raw episode, host Kail Lowry welcomes Cody and Tabby, the owners of Agape, Dover’s first and only piercing-only studio. The episode explores the couple’s personal journeys in faith, love, entrepreneurship, and identity, as well as the challenges and rewards of running a woman-owned business rooted in community and inclusivity. The discussion delivers candid insight into relationships, emotional growth, finding purpose, reconciling faith and queer identity, and building a safe space for all.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Agape: Origins and Philosophy

• Piercing-Only Studio: Cody and Tabby own Agape, the only piercing-specific studio in Delaware, focusing on professionalism and community.
  • “Any other piercing service that you get, from what we know in the last few months, right, we are the only one where you get piercings only without the tattoo side of things. So we're really excited about that.” (Cody, 01:56)
• How Agape Started: Cody details her unexpected path from LA club promoter to body jewelry entrepreneur, then becoming a professional piercer after returning home and struggling to find conventional work.
  • “If an opportunity is not there for me, I'm going to make one.” (Cody, 02:52)

2. Love Story: Cody & Tabby

• Meeting and Early Friendship: Their paths crossed through mutual friends in the local LGBTQ+ community, with a complex web of exes dating one another. They became close friends—something new for both—and took time to realize it was more than platonic.
  • “It was the first time that I had ever been friends with somebody before dating them.” (Cody, 07:03)
• Navigating Feelings and Messiness: Both talk candidly about dealing with emotional complexity, fear, and maturity while cautiously moving from friends to partners amid community drama.
  • “We have so much more control over our emotions than we think... If we understand that.” (Cody, 09:00)
• The Infamous First Kiss Story:
  • At St. Patrick’s Day, Tabby kisses Cody outside a diner to make her feelings undeniably clear.
    • “So I kiss her.” (Tabby, 17:32)
    • “That was the beginning.” (Cody, 17:37)

3. Partnership—In Love and Business

• Working Together: The pair reflect on the challenges of separating work and home life, and how business disagreements can bleed into the relationship.
  • “You never get to clock out... And that's any of your businesses, let alone the one that we had.” (Cody, 19:50)
• Communication and Comprehension:
  • “That comprehension comes from a willingness to want to hear them out.” (Cody, 21:13)
• Choosing Each Other Through Challenges:
  • “With Cody, it just was one of those things that even though ... I would be angry or hurt ... I just felt like I couldn't walk away completely.” (Tabby, 21:43)
  • “For me, when you ask, what was it that made me stay? It was the thought of losing her.” (Cody, 23:28)

4. Journey of Faith and Reconciling Identity

• Personal Faith Evolution:
  • Cody shares her upbringing in the church—stepdad was Pentecostal, mom was Filipino Catholic—and feeling “the loneliest person you had ever met” despite outward success.
    • “The pivotal moment for me was … I had all the money that I could ask for ... but I was the loneliest person.” (Cody, 32:52)
  • Her emotional return to faith happened by accident at her childhood church on Easter Sunday, leading to a profound sense of purpose and love.
• Queer Identity and Religious Stigma:
  • “There was a period where I separated myself from Tabby because of that exact question ... am I putting my relationship with Tabby over my relationship with God?” (Cody, 51:55)
  • On reconciling sexuality and scripture, Cody digs into biblical context, highlighting that many passages are misinterpreted.
    • “When I started really reading and studying the Bible, context makes a huge difference... without context, yes, tattoos and piercings sound like they do defile the body...but it was a pagan God who had them cutting their bodies.” (Cody, 35:56, 37:00)
  • “People can use anything as a weapon ... It’s what people do with those things that make it bad.” (Cody, 51:06)

5. Navigating Differences

• Spiritual vs. Lived Experience:
  • While Cody approaches life through faith, Tabby comes from a background of self-reliance and survival. Honest, passionate conversations bridge the gap.
    • “For me, surviving wasn't turning to something I couldn't see. It was going to work.” (Tabby, 43:49)
  • Their disagreements, especially over issues like pro-life/pro-choice, lead to mutual growth and deeper empathy.
    • “A disagreement seeks a victor; a discussion, a disagreement, seeks truth.” (Cody, 48:47)
    • “She made me understand that's like the tiniest percent, but I also had to have her understand that ... there are people that genuinely just use it as contraceptive. So coming right to the middle of that.” (Cody, 49:01)

6. What Makes Agape Unique

• Agape as Safe Haven: The studio is inspired by the Greek word for God’s unconditional love.
  • “Agape is a word. It's God's unconditional love for man.” (Cody, 63:58)
• Experience Over Transaction:
  • “It’s more than a piercing, it's an experience... people will go back to a place they had a great experience, even if the product wasn't the best, over a place that had a phenomenal product and terrible service.” (Cody, 75:31, 76:08)
  • They attract repeat customers, with many coming for reasons beyond the physical jewelry—remission celebrations, reclaiming their bodies after trauma, or finding safe space.
    • “I have always said that it's more than a piercing, it's an experience. At our studio, we have had some amazing conversations with clients just about why they're there. They're claiming back their bodies or they're going through something rough.” (Tabby, 83:07)
  • “A woman owned studio. That's perfect. This is a safe space.” (Tabby, 84:35)

7. Women in Business

• Breaking Stereotypes: Cody recalls being underestimated in high-level business rooms, only to prove herself through results.
  • “You own so many businesses in so many different industries... until they see the fruit of what you actually do, they don't really take you seriously.” (Cody, 67:54)
  • “People can dispute process, people can dispute the way you got there. People can’t dispute your fruit.” (Cody, 67:42)
• Facing Discrimination: Less attention from male-dominated environments and salespeople, but perseverance, reputation, and authenticity pay off.
  • “I went to Porsche... [they] didn’t even give us a second glance... Did not make the purchase... All because we were overlooked. But my thing is... if you judge so many books by their covers, your life could be so much better if you would just get rid of that lens.” (Cody, 68:45)
• On Competition and Community:
  • “You can't compete where you don't compare.” (Tabby, 86:14)
  • “Agape is not just a piercing shop. Agape is everything that we have poured into that shop, for women to finally be celebrated in a space that maybe the rest of the world could not understand.” (Cody, 86:17)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Surviving and Staying:
  • “With Cody, it just was one of those things that even though...I would be angry or hurt...I just felt like I couldn't walk away completely.” (Tabby, 21:43)
• On Building and Keeping Faith:
  • “If you know that God put this dream in your heart... you just need to be willing to hear that this big thing...God would not have plugged that in my heart if he didn't have your children.” (Cody, 76:34)
• On Safe Spaces:
  • “Women are superior. So that's why you come to a woman owned business. You're going to get an entirely different experience than a male owned business.” (Kale, 87:19)
• Finding Peace:
  • “When the voices coming out of you are louder than the voices coming at you, that's where you find peace.” (Cody, 54:58)
• On Faith and Authenticity:
  • “It is not the Bible itself which is bad... It is what people do with those things that make it bad. People used it to hurt me my whole life.” (Cody, 51:04)
• On Accepting Each Other:
  • “Regardless of whether you want to be with me or not... I'm still going to be here for you... You are worth more than what other people are making you feel like you're worth.” (Tabby, 58:50)
• Growth Mindset:
  • “Growth itself will always feel scary. Otherwise there's no growth.” (Cody, 88:35)
  • “The fruit is not for the tree. The fruit is for everyone else.” (Cody, 89:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:46 – Cody’s career journey and Agape’s founding story
• 05:30 – Early friendship and beginnings of Cody and Tabby’s relationship
• 14:06 – The St. Patrick’s Day “first kiss” story
• 19:04 – Challenges of working together as partners
• 21:43 – Why they kept choosing each other
• 30:28 – Cody’s spiritual journey: from belief to faith to purpose
• 35:56 – Understanding faith, scripture, and cultural context
• 43:49 – Tabby’s perspective on faith and survival
• 48:47 – Discussing pro-life/pro-choice from multiple lenses
• 63:58 – The meaning and intention behind the name Agape
• 67:42 – Being dismissed as women in business
• 83:07 – Agape as a community and safe haven
• 88:35 – Growth, fear, and entrepreneurial drive
• 94:09 – Next steps: wedding and a second Agape location

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Conclusion

This episode stands out for its unfiltered dialogue around love, faith, queer identity, entrepreneurship, and the power of community. Cody & Tabby offer a masterclass in vulnerability, patience, and purpose-driven business. Agape’s ethos is not just about body jewelry; it’s a space for healing, acceptance, joy, and unconditional love—embodied fully by its owners’ life stories and commitments.

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Transcript

[Child]

Mom, can you tell me a story?

[Cody]

Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car.

[Kale]

Was she brave?

[Cody]

She was tired mostly. But she went to Carvana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map required.

[Child]

Did she have to fight a dragon?

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Nope.

[Cody]

She bought it 100% online from her bed, actually.

[Child]

Was it scary?

[Cody]

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[Cody]

Okay, guys, we're back.

[Kale]

You asked for it, and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to

[Advertiser/Announcer]

a city near you on killlowry.com.

[Kale]

and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else. Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're listening to Barely Famous. All right, y', all, welcome back to Barely Famous podcast. I'm sitting with Cody and Tavi, the owners of Agape here in Dover. Thank you for coming on Barely Famous.

[Cody]

Thanks. Thank you for the insight.

[Kale]

And you own Agape, which is, to my knowledge, one of the first piercing only studios, to our knowledge, still the

[Cody]

only one in the state. So any other piercing service that you get from what we know in the last few months, right, we are the only one where you get piercings only without the tattoo side of things. So we're really excited about that. So people know that, like, this is what we do all day, every day, right?

[Kale]

Why piercings?

[Cody]

God. So that story's a little crazy. So I used to be a club promoter out in la. I lived in LA for a few years, and there was this guy who used to come in and just spin racks on racks. And that was back when that used to impress me, right? Like back in the. In my LA party days. And he used to spend 10, 15, $20,000 every night on bottle service for him, a bunch of his homies and a bunch of his broads. And so I obviously looked up to this man because, again, that's when that stupid stuff used to impress me. And so met him when I was a club promoter out there. And then when I moved back home, I was overqualified for every job. I had two degrees in English and business. I had the marines under my belt. I applied everywhere. I mean, even to the point where I applied as a manager, Royal Farms, legit, and got denied everywhere. So I said, you know what? If an opportunity is not there for me, I'm going to make one. So I called my boy up and I was like, yo, bro. Like, you know, be my distributor. So what he did to make all that money was he owned a bunch of body jewelry places like in the middle of the mall. Like those carts.

[Kale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cody]

Used to buy, you know, rather kind of vibes, kind of, but it was like a little cart. And he just sold the jewelry. He didn't do the piercings like piercing pagoda does.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Cody]

And so he had like 110 of those all up and down California. So that's where he made the stupid money that he did. I was like, bro, be my distributor. I love the culture of piercings. Let me sell the jewelry. So he was like, all right, cool. So he became my distributor. I opened up in the Dover Mall way back in 2011.

[Kale]

Are you serious?

[Cody]

I kid you not. I opened up a little cart in the middle of the mall, right? I had, like. I think I had, like a couple thousand dollars worth of inventory, just whatever I had in my savings at the time and started there. And then I did that for about a year. And then I was eating so much chick fil a that I was like, okay, I'm filled with enough Jesus's chicken. Like, I'm starting to gain some weight. And so I knew that I had to get out of this cart in the middle of the mall. This guy walks up, he owns a piercing studio or a tattoo slash piercing studio in Dover and was like, listen, we have people all the time asking for female piercer. There's not one anywhere around here. You'd be the only one. Are you interested? I was like, me and blood. Not so cute. I just. I was very wheezy. Like, I just. That kind of stuff. Was something I was into. And so I was like, I'm not sure. He goes, well, when it's done right, it's not a ton of blood, which was a lie. Absolutely. Back then. Back then, when we didn't use, like, good jewelry, good tapers, like, good system, good processes, it was just jewelry to needle, like, swipe through kind of stuff. And so I was like, all right, well, I'll try it, but didn't know at the time. And so I moved my stuff into his studio. He said, you can sell your jewelry 100% for free. Just learn to be a piercer for me. That way I can focus on tattoos.

[Kale]

You can truly beneficial, 100%.

[Cody]

So I was like, all right, cool. I'll give it a try. I'm sick of being in the middle of the mall, you know, 12 hours a day. Did that. Within, like, a month, my apprenticeship was done. I could not believe you learned how

[Kale]

to pierce and everything.

[Cody]

And within, like, a month, it was crazy. Again, this was back in 2012 when it was not as professional, when it was not as detail oriented, the quality, things like that.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

It was just poking holes and people putting joy in that kind of vibe. Yeah. And so then I really fell in love with the people. And so that's what got me into piercings in the first place. And then I operated and managed three different studios over the next about six years or so. And again, loved it. But I love the piercing side the most. I. I connected with the tattoo side of things because I connected with people. But me personally, I wanted to grow in the area of. Of piercings. So when we had the chance to open our own studio, I said, I think I want it to be just piercings. I'd only ever seen two examples, one in San Francisco and one in New York, of a piercing only studio. Loved the model.

[Kale]

But what's funny is that you didn't even want to do it, which is kind of like me with podcasting. I never really wanted to do it. And I was like, oh, I guess I'll do it kind of deal, you know, and then fell in love with it. So at what point in the journey did you two meet?

[Cody]

So we met.

[Kale]

Why are you laughing?

[Cody]

Because. So we met. Should have said, you good. You take.

[Tabby]

This is where we don't explain certain things.

[Kale]

Oh, you can. You can do the Cliff notes version if you want.

[Cody]

No, we just have two different stories on how. How it went down the first time. But anyways, go ahead.

[Tabby]

Ending a relationship. I guess she was ending a relationship, and we Happened to. Through a mutual friend at the time. Meet down at Rehoboth with all the other. Right.

[Kale]

Is very gay.

[Tabby]

Yes.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

I love it, though.

[Tabby]

Yeah. Was always great times. Like, we would go to, like, the drag shows and stuff like that and, you know, just kind of talked here and there through the mutual friend. Time had lapsed. We had had some conversations about other things kind of going on in life, and those were outside of our friend group of the people that we knew that we were just kind of, like, drawn to each other just to have, like, a conversation and to talk freely. And so we would. And then she was in another relationship during this time.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Tabby]

And during that time, we just became really close friends.

[Cody]

Like, legit. She was my homie. Like, I could talk to her about anything. We had so many parallels about our life that just led us to just being so similar in. In, you know, viewpoints of life and things like that. So we really got to know each other. She actually came to the studio that worked at two studios prior to us opening our own studio. So, you know, started off as just really great friends. It was the first time that I had ever been friends with somebody before dating them. And so it was totally different dynamic. Like, we specifically stayed away from each other because when we talk about mutual. Our exes were dating each other at the time. What the. So literally, first of all, the dating

[Kale]

pool is community, though. 100%, that's the gay community.

[Cody]

But I didn't on the head.

[Kale]

Because you were not.

[Tabby]

Because I. This was not new to me, but it wasn't something where, like, I had been in the community.

[Cody]

Like she was a baby.

[Kale]

Got it, got it, got it.

[Cody]

You know, so.

[Tabby]

Because I had been married before, like I have. To a man and my daughter, you know, and we were together for 10 years and, you know, have a beautiful daughter through all of that. And it was always felt like something was missing.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Tabby]

And then when I realized that what it was that was missing, everything just kind of fell into place. But I didn't always feel like I. That was my label. Like, I'm tabby. Like, yeah.

[Kale]

Like, why do I put a sexuality?

[Tabby]

So when people do that to me, it. I just kind of veer away from that because I'm like. I don't really know. I don't understand it because I don't feel that way. But she had mentioned feelings for me, and I was like, oh, okay. And just kind of went off. Yeah. And didn't think about it at the time, but then couldn't stop thinking about her. Why do I. Why did I never think about this? And now that she said that, like, I can't stop thinking about it.

[Kale]

Right.

[Tabby]

Maybe it's just because she said it. And so we avoided each other, literally, like the plague. Like, I'm avoiding you.

[Kale]

Scared. Like it scared you. Do you think?

[Tabby]

It didn't scare me. I was just like, what does it mean? I don't know.

[Kale]

You just, like, weren't sure about it.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Cody]

Yeah. I didn't even know what it meant. I just knew that I. It went from being completely platonic one day, literally, to literally being like, there's beyond just an attraction there. Like, I really want to get to know her.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Cody]

And again, for me, at the time, I was still talking to somebody, and it didn't make sense to me. So then that's why that I knew that that had to end. And I knew that I was like, hey, there's this thing that I've been, you know, kind of thinking about. And so, you know, from there, like I said, she had come to my studio a couple of times that I was working at things like that. So it just grew from there. And we just realized, like, there's so much connection here. But because of our emotional maturity, we knew that because of our exes dating each other and that being what could have been messy. Thank God it wasn't. Right. Just because of the situation. Yeah, the situation. We just knew we couldn't even allow our minds to get there. Like, we have so much more control over our emotions than we think that we do. If we understand that. Right. Like, so I'm not saying that we have all the control. I'm just saying we have some. We don't.

[Tabby]

Because then she invited me out. You can't. St. Patrick's Day weekend. Yeah.

[Cody]

You can't make.

[Kale]

You can't control feelings that you have for someone. I don't care what anyone says.

[Cody]

Not feelings for someone. I mean, control the way that you react to those things. Right. Like, I knew there was attraction there, but even in the beginning, did I find her pretty? Did she find me cute? Absolutely. Did we act on that at all? No. Because of how messy it could have gotten.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

Because of our exes dating each other.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

And now we're. We're friends with them. We just went and saw their baby and all that.

[Kale]

So, like, are they still together, too?

[Cody]

Yeah. Yep.

[Kale]

They're married.

[Cody]

They've been married for several years now. So they're, you know. So it just shows you how a little baby now. Yeah. Life is not about external what everybody thinks that you should do or thinks that it should look like. I think that, you know, when you have a level of emotional maturity and want to have a level emotional emotional maturity, I think that you'd be surprised how just great the outcomes can be for that.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Right?

[Cody]

So yeah, that's how it started. And then I invited her out for St Patrick's Day weekend and of course I got slosh drunk that weekend. And of course a drunk mind speaks of Silver's truth. And I just let her know, you know what I'm saying? You know, let's just, you know, hang out.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

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[Kale]

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[Cody]

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[Cody]

Hey, everyone, Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. Were married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Cody]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

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[Cody]

Liberty. Liberty.

[Child]

Liberty.

[Cody]

Liberty.

[Tabby]

So we were hanging out and we went to. We were at what? Sheridan? Sheridan.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Is that where we were first?

[Tabby]

In Smyrna. So we were there. I'd never been there before, so I met her there. She was out with friends, and then they wanted to leave and go to Irish Mike's during this time. It's really crowded. It's, you know.

[Cody]

Here we go.

[Kale]

What happened?

[Advertiser/Announcer]

What'd you do?

[Tabby]

So some guy, she gets a drink from the bar, and she turns around and this guy bumps into her. It was an accident. Her whole drink goes all over me.

[Cody]

Front down.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Tabby]

Yeah. Oh, it's great.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Tabby]

She doesn't say, you good? You okay? She just starts yelling at the guy, and I'm just, like, standing there like before.

[Cody]

I was saved. This is before. Jesus.

[Kale]

I was gonna ask that. I'm.

[Tabby]

I'm the one that should be yelling, what is happening?

[Cody]

My 14 drink that he just.

[Tabby]

So he could buy it.

[Cody]

So.

[Kale]

No, he couldn't. He said, I have $2, and he gave her $2.

[Tabby]

But I'm still wet from a drink. Like, I'm sticking.

[Kale]

You weren't wearing white, were you?

[Tabby]

No, I wasn't. I was wearing green and black because it was St. Patrick's Day. So I'm wet. Whatever. Fine. And we finished just. We're dancing, having a good time. I'm just like, whatever. It is what it is. So there was a gentleman that kept trying to buy drinks for me, and I kept saying no. So I'm. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I close out my tab. At the end of the night, she's closing hers, but I go outside to wait. While I'm out there, this gentleman starts talking to me. She comes out with her friends, and she goes, where's Tabby? And she's looking for.

[Cody]

I Wasn't angry.

[Kale]

You weren't maybe emotionally charged.

[Tabby]

You weren't there. You weren't there. You were, but you weren't. And I'm standing there. I don't have a phone on me because my phone was in the car because I didn't have pockets. I didn't want to bring it in there. I was with people, so I didn't think I needed it. He's talking to me. She comes out. Where's Tabby? She's like, oh, she's spitting game to some guy. And I'm literally giving her the, like, save me eyes.

[Kale]

Like, come get me.

[Cody]

Hello.

[Kale]

And you didn't pick up on what she was putting down?

[Tabby]

She got mad. She walked around the corner and left me.

[Cody]

No, see, this is where the story changes. I literally thought she was spitting games. So I was like, I'm not going block.

[Kale]

Yeah, but you liked her, so you were supposed to block.

[Cody]

No pause.

[Tabby]

Regardless of whether she liked me or not. The.

[Cody]

I didn't get that. And she knows. After 10 years of being together, she doesn't. She knows I have no understanding of.

[Tabby]

She doesn't see them. She doesn't.

[Cody]

Somebody could be throwing themselves right at me, and I have no clue. I'm just thinking they're being friendly. Like, that's the same.

[Kale]

I am the same way. But if I make a face, like, I could just look at him and not even do the eyes. And he knows what I'm saying.

[Cody]

Yeah, I don't. I've been getting in trouble for 10 years over this. She's looking at me, giving me clear, cute.

[Tabby]

What's wrong with you?

[Kale]

And you're like, shut up. You don't say it.

[Cody]

Okay. That's not why we're here. Can we come to the next.

[Tabby]

So. So then I want to finish. So then we go to. I say, I got to leave. Those are my friends. And my phone's in the car. So I run away and leave. Like, thanks for helping me.

[Cody]

I text her. I was like, no.

[Tabby]

And so I go to my car. I'm like, call her. And I'm like, she better answer.

[Cody]

You left me.

[Tabby]

And I'm like, yelling. And she was like, well, we're at Hollywood Diner. Do you want to come and eat? I thought you were talking to the guy. And I was like, no. So we go to Hollywood Diner. I'm like, wait for me outside. So I pull up, up. She's waiting for me outside. I'm walking over. Who gets out of their car but the gentleman that was just at Irish Mike.

[Kale]

Oh, Kid.

[Tabby]

So I walk up to her. He's like, are you following me? And I said, no, I'm not. And I walk up to Cody and I give her the, like, help me face. She doesn't help me. So I kiss her.

[Kale]

You just kissed her?

[Tabby]

He goes, oh, okay.

[Cody]

That was the beginning.

[Tabby]

Oh, yeah.

[Cody]

No, on my forehead at 2 o' clock in the morning after the bar, I made sure.

[Tabby]

I made sure that there was no more questioning.

[Kale]

Right.

[Tabby]

Like,

[Kale]

you're like, now you both know.

[Tabby]

And even if he had a question, he wasn't going to ask me. He was literally like.

[Kale]

He got the hint, he got the ice. He understood.

[Tabby]

He said, oh, we were in the

[Cody]

same cargo pants, but went inside.

[Tabby]

And then that was. She spilled another drink on me later in the night when she was again, yes.

[Cody]

No, pause again. A very different version. It was not me that hit the table that made.

[Tabby]

She's so animated together.

[Cody]

I'm glad you don't know my middle name, because I was about to come rule.

[Tabby]

If you've ever seen her just in person, she's animated. Right.

[Kale]

Cody is one of the. And I. I actually warned the girls, you know, it's like, if you had to warn somebody about me, what would you say? Before y' all got here, I said, just so you know, Alessandra, because she has to listen. I'm like, she's very animated.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

She has a lot to say.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Kale]

So I understand. In the best way possible. Of course.

[Cody]

I'm not naive.

[Tabby]

So we're sitting down, we're eating, and

[Kale]

you fell in love 10 years later.

[Tabby]

But I don't know what it was in the moment. I think it was more heated than

[Cody]

it was anything years later. She's the only person that can make me laugh the way that she makes me laugh.

[Kale]

And you guys work together. You run a business together, you work together.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Kale]

I mean, not many people can do that with their partner.

[Cody]

We almost could.

[Tabby]

We almost. I mean, there was a huge chunk of our relationship that suffered because in. Because of working and not knowing that balance of when we come home, we're no longer, like, working owners of a studio.

[Cody]

Right.

[Tabby]

We're not doing that. Although we do know that we have to talk about and, you know, handle certain things after hours. If you're mad at me or I'm mad at you for something that happened at work, I can't come home now and talk to my significant other about. And gossip about how that person got on my nerves today.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Right.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

Well, you know, you never get the clock out.

[Kale]

You don't you don't.

[Cody]

You never get the clock out. And that's any of your businesses, let alone the one that we had.

[Kale]

You want to keep the work and relationship separate.

[Cody]

Yeah.

[Kale]

And it's so hard.

[Cody]

And because the top priority has to be communication, everything else is predicated on tension. Yeah.

[Kale]

Because you can tell someone until you're blue in the face something.

[Cody]

And if.

[Kale]

Until they comprehend it, it's just going in one ear and out the other.

[Cody]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that comprehension comes from a willingness to want to hear. Yeah. I didn't always have that. I wasn't the best at that. That was something that she had to teach me and not teach me in a sense of like getting me to understand something, but from a sense of why do I want to understand? Because up until then, when I had just really had surface level relationships, I'd never been with anybody longer than like a year. Like, I'd never made it to a one year anniversary with anybody. None of my relationships were ever long lasting enough. Wanted to comprehend. All I wanted to comprehend was what I wanted. Right. Not what you wanted from me or from it. Or reciprocating basically 100%. And so in loving me the way that she did, giving me the grace and the patience to learn that lesson as we went, not look, force me to learn it overnight or her way, I think that that's when things got better for us, is when I wanted to hear her out instead of saying, no, no, but my way is best.

[Kale]

Right?

[Cody]

Right. You are great in medical. I don't tell you how to handle a boo boo. You don't tell me how to handle our business because at the time I thought that I knew. So that comprehension comes from a willingness to say, hey, I trust this person enough to want you to speak into our business or speak into these decisions that are being made. So I think that equally with communication, I think comprehension comes from a willingness to want to hear them out.

[Kale]

When you guys were going through any struggles in your relationship, but also running a business and how they kind of get convoluted, what was the deciding factor? What made you guys want to keep choosing each other through all of it? Because it could have been easy to just be like, on to the next, you know, like, this isn't working.

[Tabby]

I am a person who will literally pour my heart and soul into everything, everyone. And so I don't give up easy, but I also know when to be like, okay, at some point you need to walk away. With Cody, it just was one of those things that Even though in my mind, in the moment, I would be angry or upset or hurt at whatever it was we were going through that I just felt like I couldn't walk away completely. And I remember telling my friend, like, I pray on this all the time. Like, give me a sign. Let me see that I'm supposed to do something else. Like, that I'm. It's okay to let this go. Why can't I. Why don't I get that feeling? Why do I continuously have the feeling of what I'm hearing is, hold on, stay. It's okay. It's gonna work out. It's gonna be fine. Don't walk away, don't walk away, don't walk away. And for me, it was really hard because I'm. Like, you're saying, and what I'm hearing is, don't walk away. Am I. Am I hearing it or am I hearing it? Like, is it my.

[Kale]

Because they're different.

[Tabby]

Is it. Is it my. Is it my ears that I am hearing, or is it my heart? Is it like, what is it? And, you know, it just. I kept hearing the same thing, and so I just kept holding on to it. And I would let her, you know, do her thing, and. And. And, you know, kind of run, and I would still just be there each time, like, you can run, but I, I.

[Kale]

There was something keeping you there.

[Tabby]

I don't feel the same way that you're feeling. So run.

[Kale]

When she's saying she didn't feel the same way that you were feeling, were you trying to run?

[Cody]

Absolutely. That was my automatic go to. In life. When something becomes inconvenient, when something becomes challenging, when something becomes as if I could do it better on my own, I run, Right? And so for me, when you ask, what was it that made me stay? It was the thought of losing her.

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[Cody]

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[Tabby]

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[Cody]

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[Child]

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[Cody]

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[Kale]

I feel like at that point, you had essentially built a life with her that you really loved. And so it was like, okay, I could keep running, but what is that gonna do?

[Cody]

The autonomy that I thought that I would be losing, okay, the ability to make decisions on my own to. To financially do on for myself that what I wanted to do, the autonomy that. That I was losing, I was running from the idea that I was going to let anyone else take that autonomy from me. But what I did not realize at the time was the way that her love is shaped, the way that her love manifests in my life. She allows me all of that autonomy anyways. I was just nervous to see it in my own life because I had seen it modeled in so many other people's lives where people lose themselves, they lose their bank accounts, they lose their hopes and dreams for the sake of their partnership. And then I'm like, who are you even?

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

But she let me have the financial freedom in our relationship and in our business. She let me have the time freedom that I wanted when I wanted to just go away for a day. Because my mind and my heart and my. My spirit was just heavy and burdened. She let me have that time. She knew I wasn't running from her. I was just running to something. And it was my faith at the time. But, you know, it was weird that I thought that I would be losing that freedom that she freely gave me. Anyways, so I realized, what am I actually scared of? Of.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Right.

[Cody]

And so that that turn was really where I finally became committed to her. And then again, I didn't know what a committed relationship looked like. Anything close to a year. As soon as that year would come up, bye. And it was tough. Yeah. And then the last part, I think that that solidified it for me. The thing that made me finally put the ring on it, it was my own stuff, was when I realized, who else would ever be that patient? Who else in this world would give me nine and a half years of figuring myself out? And her just dealing with the patience. So God had to give her the gift of patience and had to give me the revelation of a different mindset and understanding of relationship.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

So the idea of losing her was absolutely. The thing that made me stay is like, I don't want this life without her. I don't want to grow in agape. I don't want to have agape without her. I don't want to have a life and a child without her. So I think for me, that was the thing that kept me to. To not just stay strong, but finally be committed.

[Kale]

So when you first got together, your faith was not what it is today?

[Cody]

No, not at all.

[Kale]

Can you talk about that? Because I think that so many people that are very religious or spiritual or whatever, you know, it's. You know, even my. My nanny for my kids. She's family to me, and I love her so much, but she's a strong believer. And also, it's. No. No body piercings, no tattoos. No. None of that. Right. Because yeah.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

God says.

[Kale]

And the Bible says you, your body is a temple. I think it is body. Your body is a temple. You don't get to do those. So how does agape fit into. And honestly, I guess your relationship, too. But like Agape, the piercings, the tattoos, your relationship fit into your religion.

[Cody]

Yeah.

[Kale]

And how. And. And really, what caused you to turn to faith and. And be. I don't. I don't want to be, like, offensive. Like, what? What? As spiritual, as religious as you are.

[Cody]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Is there something like a pivotal moment that you kind of remember that that was a shift for you?

[Cody]

Yeah. I would say to answer that, that Latter question, like, what was the pivot that made me turn to faith? Was I at the time when I really fully gave myself to God? I believed in God my whole life. My father grew me up in the church. My mother was very strict Roman Catholic, Filipino style. My dad was very Pentecostal. Like, just very spirit filled, kind of.

[Kale]

Are they both Filipino, both your parents?

[Cody]

My dad's big old white guy from the Air Force. That's how all Phil Filipinos get over here. So mom married him in the Philippines.

[Kale]

Cody, please.

[Cody]

So no, dad is, I guess, like German mostly, but yeah. So dad's from Pittsburgh area. Mom's from the Philippines. I was born in the Philippines. Okay. When I say my dad, it's my stepdad, but he raised me since I was one. He's the only father I've ever known. He's my dad. My biological father is a Jewish man, so I'm a Jew Asian, a Jewish. So biological father's Jewish. Never really been in my life. I think one time he had to sign paperwork for me when I was 17 so I could join the military early. No relationship other than that. But my dad raised me, you know, in a Pentecostal church, Spirit filled church. So I'd always believed in God. I just never really gave my heart to him. Right. You can believe in a relationship, but until you give your heart to someone, you don't really know what that walk looks like. Right. And so I think the pivotal moment for me was I. I remember distinctly, I had all the money that I could ask for. I had all the, you know, popularity that someone could ask for. I literally, you know, from a worldly sense, had the light life. But I was the loneliest person you'd ever met in your life. I could be surrounded the guy, the

[Kale]

guest that we had yesterday, the same thing.

[Cody]

I could be surrounded by a thousand people. And traditionally I am. Most days I'm surrounded by a ton of people. But at the time, I was the loneliest person you had ever met. I had no purpose, I had no drive, I had no confidence. I just knew I was charismatic, but I had no confidence.

[Kale]

You're like the care, the charisma was just. It doesn't matter if you don't know what to do with it.

[Cody]

Facts, right? The gift was in me and I used it, but what was I using it for, right? And so at the time I was like, there's got to be more than this. Waking up, making money, coming home. Because again, the bank account was growing. But my joy wasn't. My peace wasn't the things that actually matter.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

And have substance don't. So I was like, let me figure out what it is that I'm lacking. And I remember it was Easter Sunday, and my dad was a big Easter guy. Like, he loved Jesus's resurrection more than any other holiday of the year. Mostly for the food, admittedly, but yes. Also because Jesus died and paid for our sins. So. So I remember it was Easter Sunday, and I was. I missed my dad at the time he had. It was 2013. My dad passed in 2008, and I missed him so much. And I just got in my car and just started driving around, and I'm like, what is this emptiness that I feel? I have everything I could want.

[Kale]

You guys were together at that time, like in a relationship.

[Cody]

2016. So this was before her. Yeah.

[Kale]

Okay. So.

[Cody]

So my. My walk started a few years before I'd met her. My. My recommitment to my faith.

[Kale]

Okay. I think I misunderstood and thought maybe the pivot or the. The shift in your life was while you guys were together. So you already. She was already very religious.

[Cody]

Yeah.

[Kale]

When you guys were together.

[Cody]

And a very different kind of religious. Which we'll get into.

[Kale]

Oh, okay.

[Tabby]

The.

[Cody]

Very much so. Like traditional churches, everything you do, everything to serve.

[Kale]

Did you have nothing. Piercings at that time?

[Cody]

Not as many, but yes, I did.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Cody]

Absolutely. And so I went and drove down this. I was driving around. I went down this long driveway. Had no idea where this driveway led. It was just a really long driveway down this street. It was right off of Route 13. And I drive down. There's a church at the of End. End. Like, what is this? Like, this couldn't be more, like, insane, like, you know, serendipitous in the moment. I walk in, and it was the same people from when I was a kid. I had no idea that the church moved from where it was at in Camden to a different, larger building location. So I come in, and I'm seeing all the same faces from the last time I saw my dad. So I just wept. I literally dropped to my knees and wept. I'm like, God, how could you possibly lead me here of all places.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

To not just a church, but to my church that I used to attend with my dad, which is who I was missing that moment that morning. And so there's no way that you can just think that's just a coinky dink. Like, there's just no way. And right then and there, I knew I needed to commit my life to the Lord. And I Just, I fell in love with a God that loves me in a way that I. I've never felt from family, from friends, from money, from jobs, from social media. Like, I was loved in a very different way. So that was what changed it for me. Me now, where I really kind of have that juxtaposition of being so heavily tattooed, pierced, living a very different life at the time, because I was still drinking very heavily and not just drinking to, like, casually have fun. I mean, I was drinking, right? Like, I was pouring my life into these bottles. And so again, they were leaving me empty. Like, it was great the night of, but then the morning, all those problems are still there. All that emptiness and loneliness in your heart is still there. So I knew that, you know, that's not the life I wanted to continue. And so. So, you know, having that, I didn't have a regret for those things. I didn't have a conviction of, oh, these are wrong. And so then when I started really reading and studying the Bible, context makes a huge difference. Anyone who we know, who knows and has read the Bible understands if you read it out of context, it sounds crazy. If you read a children's book out of context, Little Timmy Train went through and jumped off of the tracks. We know that doesn't actually happen, right? Like. Like Little Timmy Train doesn't. It doesn't. But if you read it from the mind of a kid, with an imagination of a kid, all of a sudden it makes a little bit sense. It just was talking about the strength of Timmy the train. The same thing with the Bible. When I started reading it from an understanding of what is it actually telling me, not just what words on a page mean, but the Bible became something that I didn't just read it read me. It opened up my eyes to understanding that without context, yes, tattoos and piercings sound like they do defile the body. But when I understood that back then, they were cutting themselves to worship a God that didn't exist. Now, it doesn't sound too great, Right?

[Kale]

So it's not actually tattoos.

[Cody]

Correct. What they're talking about is worship to a God called BAAL at the time, who literally had you sacrifice children in his name. So it was a pagan God who had them cutting their bodies for the sake of the dead. So when you understand and read in context what God was trying to keep his people from doing, he didn't want you worshiping a false God and sacrificing babies, cutting your body. That's very different than me ordaining or ornating my body. With words that mean, God, I love you, or d miss you, or relationship, I'm committed to you.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Right.

[Cody]

Like, it's a very different thing. So what we understand now between religion is that religion looks at behavior, and instantly, yes or no, black or white, what we understand that Jesus wanted to do was what does your heart say that you're trying to do? Your heart isn't giving you tattoos on your arm because you worship, you know, a false God. You're wanting to ornate your body with artwork and with meaning and with memories. That's what matters. Right. We always talk about all the time, like, how intention matters.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

What was your intention when you did that?

[Kale]

Right. So it's more about, like, the misinterpretation.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Right.

[Kale]

Like, it's somebody miss it. Somewhere along the lines, somebody misinterpreted something because now it's this. Your body is a temple. You can't get piercings and tattoos. But that's not actually what it's saying. The same way it's not saying that

[Cody]

you cannot be gay or not even necessarily. Always a misinterpretation. For some people, that's just what works for them.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Them.

[Cody]

Right. I don't knock somebody for thinking that, hey, for me, piercings and tattoos aren't my thing. What I have a problem is when people say, it shouldn't be yours make sense. What I talk about is the fact that, you know, you and I could read the same scripture and it hit you totally different than it hits me. It hits you in the way it needs to hit you because of how your life is going and where your life is taking you. It might hit me different. Right. You read a book. You have a book club.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

You could read the same book. And two people get two totally different things out of the same scene of that book. For sure, the Bible is the same way day. Because again, I'm not just reading it, it's reading me. And so, yes, there are a lot of misinterpretations. Trust me. Like, again, we could get into that all day. We'll be here till tomorrow. But for me, what makes it easier to have discussions with people that might have a misinterpretation is I say, hey, for you. Do you boo, Boo. Big ups to you. That works great for you. So, like Catholicism, for example, it doesn't work for me. It's a lot of tradition. It's a lot of, like, you know, rules. It's a lot of law, you know, things like that. And for some people, that works. Some of the most pious Christians in the world that I know are Catholics. It just doesn't work for me how my heart interacts with with my God.

[Kale]

This one's for all my TV lovers. My entertainment from DirecTV gets you 60 plus channels and Disney Plus, Hulu and HBO Max all in one pack. But here's the thing, with so much great TV in my entertainment, you're going to want to talk about everything you've been watching. Just remember that your friends might not be as well watched as you. Don't be a spoiler and encourage them to get my Entertainment for just 34.99amonth.

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Go to directv.com genre packs and sign up today. New customers only. Service renews monthly unless canceled Credit card required conditions apply to app HBO Max Basic with ads begins after DirecTV 5 day trial. I have way too much free time said no one ever. Work, appointments, family and friends.

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[Kale]

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[Tabby]

Hold.

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[Cody]

I don't think it's always a misinterpretation. Yes, it's definitely sometimes a misinterpretation. The same way with, you know, you bringing up, you know, being gay. Right.

[Kale]

A lot of. I think that's what the Bible says. Yeah, I think it's more about. I already knew, but we talked about it yesterday. Like, I think it's about pedophilia.

[Cody]

It's a lot about using your body to worship other things. Meaning, like some of the scriptures that people bring up about being gay are about men giving up their bodies, like basically becoming prostitutes to these temples to worship that God, which is not what you're supposed to. Which is not what we're talking about. Some of the other scriptures talking about when, when people giving up the natural for the unnatural. It's straight men having sex with, with men, Right. For the simple pleasure of sex. But they were either married or they were traditionally straight. Right. Infidelity and lust. It was not. You do not see one single example in the entire Bible of a monogamous, long lasting, committed relationship. You just don't.

[Kale]

Well, I think also, like, even in the animal kingdom, right, not to compare humans to animals, but there are literally other mammals that are homosexual. So with you not being as spiritual as she is, did that ever cause a conflict? Did you ever, like. Like it did?

[Tabby]

Yeah. I mean, it was one of those things that. Because I don't view things. Not that I don't view things the same, but there are some differences in the way that we think. I have. My life has been completely different growing up. Like, I was on my own since I was 16 and just kind of fending for yourself throughout the years. And you see the world for what it is in that moment and, and nothing else. Like nothing else. You don't turn to anything else because you're just living for whatever is going on right there.

[Kale]

You're living in the moment to survive. Yeah, 1,000%.

[Tabby]

It's. It's a survival mode. And for me, surviving wasn't turning to something I couldn't see. It was going to work. Work and getting paid and pulling yourself by the bootstraps. Yeah, absolutely. And so even to this day, there are some things that when we have conversations that I'm like, I don't see it the same way. And maybe it's because of the things that I've been through in my life. Certain situations, certain experiences that are completely different than hers. But so I feel like, like our walks have been different and impactful in different ways. Because of the way we view things, we view things differently. So the things that she needs to fill her cup are exactly what she's getting from it. And the things that I need, and even things I don't realize that I need in the moment, it just are like they hit you. And so because I view things a little bit different, sometimes I ask a lot more questions or I'm picking her brain. I'm like, well, what do you think about this? What does that mean? And even to this day, sometimes I still don't understand it because maybe it's just not relevant in my life at that moment that I am not able to understand it. But I feel like there's also been times where we've had some heated conversations. Very not like argumentative conversations, just heated and passionate on both ends. Where I'm coming from a. A life experience point of view. And she's coming from,

[Kale]

like, a spiritual point of view.

[Tabby]

Absolutely. And. But the great thing is, is that we've had some phenomenal conversations. Even though they're heated. We're not saying, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong.

[Kale]

You guys give each other to believe whatever it is that you guys.

[Cody]

100.

[Tabby]

Exactly. And that's what we've learned from each other just having those conversations is that. That, like, that she's learned from me and I've learned from her. Because before I would have been like, no, no, I don't care what you're. I don't care what it says. This is. This is actual life. And until you've had to make a specific decision, I don't want to hear what you have to say about it.

[Cody]

And that's exactly kind of the same.

[Tabby]

But then we have these conversations where we just kind of balance each other

[Kale]

out, hear each other out.

[Tabby]

Yeah. And it's great to have them.

[Cody]

So to go back to that statement I made about. I was a very different Christian back then. Yeah, I was a very, very theologian Christian back then. This is what the Bible says. This is the rules of engagement. This is how you interact with God. This is how you interact with his Word. So I came at it from a theological perspective. What does the Bible say on this? Also somewhat literal. What does the Bible say on this?

[Kale]

Were you walking it and talking it, or were you just talking it?

[Cody]

I was walking it and talking it, but not necessarily understanding it. Meaning I had a lot of behavior modification, not a lot of wisdom and understanding. So what I mean by that is that we would have conversations, and I'll Be very honest. One of the biggest topics was pro life versus pro choice.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Cody]

I didn't come at it from a lived experience. I had, you know, been gay my whole life, so I had never had a pregnancy scare. I had never been through what it's like to. To have any sort of concern over pregnancy and things like that. She had come at it from not necessarily lived experience of herself necessarily having a scare, but a lot of her friends also from a medical perspective. So I think where the heated are the. The heated discussions came was we had different lenses. I had the lens of theology and religion. She had the lens of life, lived experience. Where those two things intersect is where you have real life application. And so that discussion started me on a whole different path of understanding. A whole different path of understanding that one discussion of Cody, you need to be. Because you're Christian, you need to be pro life without any warmth or understanding of what is a woman going through who's with a man she just found out that might have been cheating on her, but she's pregnant. She doesn't know what to do. She can't, you know, feed or. Or. Or survive herself.

[Kale]

Have.

[Cody]

Does she? I never understood that. I just said, the Bible says you can't kill that baby right now. Am I still pro life? Absolutely right. I do still want babies to have a chance to live. But at the same time, what it did for me was it changed my lens of understanding from a theological law to an understanding of there's a human heart involved in this. So it didn't change my position. It changed my understanding. It changed my compassion, it changed my empathy. It changed so much for me. And I think said, if this one discussion can change so much, what more. More discussions. And we also understand there's a difference between a disagreement and an argument. An argument seeks a victor who won, who was the loudest, who had the most points. A disagreement simply says, I'm position A, you're position B. How do we find the truth? So an argument seeks a victor, a discussion a, a disagreement seeks truth. What is the actual truth? And the actual truth is, yes, babies deserve to live, but so do moms. Moms. Right. Like, so it opened this whole understanding. So it changed everything for me. It changed the entire trajectory of my walk with God by having that one very passionate discussion. And again, she understood where I was coming from. Like, you don't just get to use it as contraceptive, right?

[Kale]

No. And I don't think a majority. Not to get political, but I think that most women don't Use it as

[Cody]

a contraceptive way that I got fugazied into thinking that that's exactly what they do. They just go out here, they. They just lay up with whomever, and then when it doesn't turn out your way, then you go and do this thing. She made me understand that's like the tiniest percent, but I also had to have her understand that so is the people that actually had to make tough decision of having to make some such a tough decision in that moment. And there are people that genuinely just use it as contraceptive. So coming right to the middle of that. And I think that that's why discussions just like what you do, Kale, I absolutely adore your openness. I adore your realness and your rawness, because the people that are willing to be that open and real and raw, people find a freedom here in this podcast. People find a freedom in these discussions. And even on the way here, we were praying about. I said, lord, whatever it is that we discuss, whatever it is that leaves these lips, let it not be my words, let it be yours. Let people be freed from whatever has them captive, because somebody could be listening to this right now that is just singing at home, and they're like, man, but I do. I love this woman. And, you know, the Bible says I can't do this. And my mom said that I. That this isn't right. And they're. They're literally trapped in that lie that you're not beautiful, that you're unlovable by such a. By such a big God that these rules, you know, hold you back and hold you down. I mean, we.

[Kale]

I said I wasn't going to cry.

[Cody]

I told you. And so literally, I adore you, and I look up to you.

[Kale]

I cry every day. It's okay.

[Cody]

I do, too.

[Tabby]

It's fine.

[Cody]

Listen, it's good. The reason those tears flow so freely is because you've been through so much.

[Kale]

No. Well, I think specifically surrounding, like, the Bible and sexuality is really upsetting because there's so many, like, incredible people in my life who are gay, and they just don't accept it themselves because of what they think the Bible says or what somebody's mom thinks the Bible says. And that really just breaks my heart.

[Cody]

It does, absolutely. But think about the controlling nature of people, Kale. People always want to control something. The difference between faith and religion is faith is God saying, this is how I design to live with you. Religion is man trying to control that walk and saying, here's a bunch of rules, and this is how you make

[Advertiser/Announcer]

it black or white.

[Cody]

This is how you make it right or wrong. Wrong.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

I'm not saying that that worldviews are wrong. I'm not saying being Christian versus Catholic, being Muslim versus this vers that. I'm not saying any of that. What I am saying is there is a very big difference between people taking the Bible. People can use anything as a weapon. A knife prepares a wonderful meal every single night at our home. You put that knife in the hands of the wrong person, all of a sudden it kills people. All of a sudden it hurts people. It's the same thing with the Bible. You absolutely. I mean, a paperweight is cute until you throw it at somebody, right? Yeah. The Bible is the same way. It is not the Bible itself, which is bad. It's not the church itself, which is bad. Right. It is what people do with those things that make it bad. People used it to hurt me my whole life, in fact. And I will be very honest with this, it's not something we discuss often. There was a period where I separated myself from Tabby because of that exact question.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Cody]

I wondered, am I putting my relationship with Tabby over my relationship with God? Is this something that God even wants for me? And I will say half of the decision to do that was coming from a place of, am I idolizing my relationship? Because I made Tabby my everything for a period. Like, I was like, you know what? Like, I spent more time with her than I did at church. I spent more energy and money on her than I did at church. So I started, what are you going to do?

[Kale]

Live at the church?

[Cody]

No, but at the same time, when you, at the time kind of, it

[Tabby]

seemed like that, you know, in our relationship, she was there, there a lot more than we were together. And sometimes it just kind of, that was around that time when it just felt like there was this pull and she would talk to me about it, and I'm just like, I don't, I, I'm not seeing it the same way that you are. Again, going back to, like, the things that I, I, I don't feel like the same God that loves me and loves you is going to tell me to hold on and tell you to run.

[Cody]

And that's the point.

[Tabby]

Do you know what I mean?

[Cody]

But it wasn't the same God telling us those things. It was me. To the outside voices.

[Kale]

You're listening to this podcast, so I

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[Cody]

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[Kale]

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[Cody]

brain IQ my mentor once told me this. When the voices coming out of you are louder than the voices coming at you, that's where you find peace.

[Kale]

Say that one more time.

[Cody]

When the voices coming out of you are louder than the voices coming at you, that's where you find peace. So my problem in that moment was I let the voices coming at me Cody, you're gay. Cody, you can't be gay. Cody, you can't love Jesus and be gay. Cody, God doesn't love you if you you are. I let those voices Be louder than the voices coming at me, which were. Or coming out of me, which are. You're wonderfully and beautifully created. You are made in the image of God. There is no one like you. Those voices were silenced by the voices coming at me. So for I spent a period where I questioned and wondered, is this what God would have for me? But I loved God so much that I allowed myself to find that out. So that when I came back, I was a thousand percent certain that I was not putting a relationship, whether it be with a man or a woman, above my relationship with God. And when I tell you the amount of confidence that gave me, the amount of growth that. That gave me, the amount of conviction to tell other people God loves you. No matter your past, your matter your mistakes, no matter your what you've done, no matter what you feel about yourself. He loves you in a way that if no one else lived and it was just you and him, he was. Would love you all the same.

[Kale]

And then you came back 100% certain.

[Cody]

10 toes deep is how I came back.

[Tabby]

10 toes deep.

[Cody]

And now you're engaged.

[Tabby]

I'm just kidding.

[Cody]

And now she got the rock, and now we have the wedding in September. You always gotta throw that in there. Let me tell you.

[Tabby]

Ten years later, that's okay.

[Cody]

The problem is. And again, going back to the voices at you, we let outside voices speak to us as far as what's right or what's best for our relationships, right? And that's when we fail miserably in them. And so.

[Tabby]

And the voices that. That she was hearing coming at her are. You're. You're gay. You can't be with a woman. Like, you have tattoos, you have piercings, all of these things. And the voices that were coming at me, that were loud with me are. You always have to fight for everything that you want. You are alone in this. No one has your back. You have to do everything yourself. You can't rely on somebody else. You can't. I can't trust her. Her, because she's never been through the things that I've been through. So how could she possibly understand why I am anxious or overwhelmed or why I cry or why I'm angry. And so our voices that were coming at us were completely different. So when we view our, you know, our. Our sense of faith, like she was struggling with that. And I'm struggling with, like, my anxiety or I'm struggling with the fear of letting someone completely in to know everything about me because I've had to protect myself. Like I Have to protect myself. Who else is going to. Parents didn't.

[Cody]

Right.

[Tabby]

You know.

[Cody]

Right.

[Tabby]

So. And if I let her in and I let her know everything, is that going to be too ugly? Is all of the ugly going to,

[Kale]

you know, scare her away or scare

[Tabby]

her away and then she's worried about. About, you know, I'm gay and this is what people see, and am I going to.

[Kale]

Literally.

[Cody]

That's how deep it got.

[Tabby]

And for me, that wasn't a thought in my head because I'm like, you're

[Kale]

so worried about the other things. Worried about survival mode.

[Tabby]

Absolutely.

[Kale]

Right.

[Tabby]

And then when we realize that she calms my anxiety and I look forward to, you know, when I'm sad or. Or overwhelmed or even when we're not happy with each other, I just want her to just hug me.

[Kale]

You want her in your presence?

[Tabby]

I want that because everything just goes quiet, like when I have her. And I feel like the same thing goes for her when she's overwhelmed in those moments about that, I was able to be that person, not because I was in a relationship with her, but just because I was able to say, it's okay.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Tabby]

You don't have to listen to all of that outside stuff.

[Kale]

Right.

[Tabby]

Regardless. And conversations that we would have. I would say, regardless of whether you want to be with me or not. Not. I'm still going to be here for you. I still want you to realize that you are worth more than what other people are making you feel like you're worth. Like, you're smart, you're funny, you're charismatic. Charismatic.

[Cody]

Like you hate my germs. They've been the same jokes. I don't hate.

[Kale]

Because you've been together for 10 years.

[Tabby]

I don't hate them, but I do tell people, don't laugh at her. She's not funny.

[Kale]

I do that to him.

[Tabby]

But that's funny. That's my way of being funny.

[Kale]

Right.

[Tabby]

Because people are like.

[Kale]

Like, don't gas her up. Do not give her a big head.

[Tabby]

It's all right. We don't need it to be bigger.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

She needs to thin out the door.

[Tabby]

That's okay.

[Cody]

We all know that it's all of the. The growth in relationships comes from the renewing of your mind.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Cody]

You cannot bring your past into your present. Once you do that, you've already lost.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Right.

[Cody]

And so the Bible talks about all the time the renewing of your mind. You have to look at it from. Again, a different lens. Right. If you. The photographers and videographers in the room, if they go to Take a shot at something and they just can't quite get the shot. Right. They don't throw away the whole camera. What do they do? They change the lens.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Okay.

[Cody]

Right. Then they get a clear picture. Right. If you throw away the whole camera, you don't have a shot. If you just change the lens, you've done two things. Number one, now the picture's clear. And number two is the next time that that challenge comes up, you know what lens to put. Same with your kids. There's no way that you have had. How old is. Is Elliot now? 16. 16. I thought so. I couldn't remember for 16 years. You've had to change your lens with Elliot, and Elliot's had to change his. Their lens with you.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

And so I think there's this beautiful understanding that I found with her that I don't need to change the person like I have in the past. I don't need to change the. The situation like I've tried to do in the past. I need to change myself because I can't help what she does. Right? I tell one time, my pastor said, you can't take offense. You can only. You can't give offense. You can only take offense. Right? I can't say anything. Like, if I've told you right now, if I. You told. Pulled. Pulled the color purple and said, you show is ugly. And that man told you this morning when you woke up, God, you are so beautiful to me. You're not going to take offense to what I said because someone is already instilled in your heart the truth, which is, Kale, you are beautiful. So I can't give you offense. You can only take it.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Okay?

[Cody]

And so what I realized is I don't need to change her. I don't need to change the situation. I need to change myself. And that is not only tough, it is an intentional thing you have to specifically do in business. Business, in relationships, in your money. Right?

[Kale]

But it never goes away either. You have to constantly.

[Cody]

It is a daily decision. And that's why faith matters to me. Faith is not about one time. I declared, jesus, I love you. Be the Lord of my life. Now I'm saved. I'm going to heaven forever. It is about every single day. When I'm at my end, that's when he begins. And so faith is not just something you do on Sundays. It's not just a God that saved you one time and now you're good. You're going to make it. Your name's written in the book. I don't Want to wait for heaven? I want heaven now. I want my heaven here on earth. And that's what Jesus came to bring. And so when you understand and when you read about his ministry, his true ministry, he came to bring a different lens on religion. Before lens worked, religion worked, law worked. Do this, don't do that. Stay away from the big sins. Kind of love your neighbor by doing this. And Jesus came and elevated. He said, no, no. Not only are you cheating, if you actually cheat on your partner, if you even think of lust, you're cheating, cheating. So what he did is he didn't come to abolish it. He came to deepen the understanding of, why does it hurt her when I run away? Right. Even if I don't run to a woman, even just running from her hurt her. And then when I realized that I'm like, yo, like, even though I'm not running to someone, I'm still running from her, that's not okay.

[Kale]

Right. It's like a betrayal for her.

[Cody]

But religion just says, as long as you don't cheat, you're good. That's not the case, is it? And so I think that for me, my walk with God is such a daily thing. It used to be a very Sunday thing. It used to be a very theological, you know, thing, and now it is a. An understanding of life. 100. I don't get to take it off. You don't get to take off being a mom? No. You have none of your kids around you right now. None of them.

[Kale]

There's no. No. I don't put it on dnd. Because in case there's.

[Cody]

You never walk into a room, even without your kids. And you're not mom.

[Kale]

No. I'm always mom.

[Cody]

Correct. I'm always the daughter of God.

[Kale]

I never thought you were gonna say that.

[Cody]

I never walk into a room where even if no one else sees the cross around my neck, even if I don't pronounce on Facebook. Christian.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

That people know.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

Like, that's how you know you're really a mom, is when. When none of your kids around and you just can't stop thinking about how you're going to be a better mom to them, what you're going to do to make them smile next, how you're going to be there for them when the next challenge comes, because it inevitably will.

[Kale]

It will. Yeah.

[Cody]

It's not about what you do that makes you mom. It's who you are, sis. It is literally your very presence, your very existence. That's what faith is to me. I don't get to take it off. In fact, because I love God so much, I live different. You could be living a very different life today, Kale, if you ain't had them kids. Very different life, right? Yeah, but you love them so much,

[Kale]

be right there with Susie.

[Cody]

You're willing to live a very different

[Kale]

life at it all the time.

[Cody]

So, you know, that's what it is for me. That's what it's done.

[Kale]

When you guys opened agape is. Is agape a religious term?

[Cody]

It is. So agape is a word. It's God's unconditional love for man. There's nothing you can do to separate yourself from the love of God. There's no sin that you could commit. There is nothing that you've done that

[Kale]

makes sense for a body piercing place. Because so many people interpret it as, I shouldn't get tattoos, I shouldn't get piercings, I shouldn't, I shouldn't, I shouldn't. And so that kind of breaks that stigma a little bit, which I think is really cool.

[Cody]

It does, I think, think that two things. It does when. When I ask God, what do I name this thing? Because I gave this space to God before I even opened it, I said, God, this is your space. Whatever you would have done in this place, let me know what it is. And so when I was thinking about what to name, I mean, I had, of course, 100 different cool, cute, you know, fun play on words and poking holes kind of names. Yeah, yeah. And agape is just what came up. And so the thing that he kind of gave me in my heart as to why is number one, believers would trust and understand. Understand it.

[Kale]

Okay?

[Cody]

Because anybody who's ever heard the word agape, they're like, oh, snap, Now I know that I'm safe in this space because even though maybe some spaces that they've been to that offer tattoos and piercings, they didn't exactly feel safe in that space. Convert, you know, they didn't feel celebrated or loved in those spaces. Now they're like, no, this is a Christian place. I know that. Secondly, the people that don't know what it means, they're saying it. So it's conversational 100. It's conversational. People ask me all the time, what does it mean? And for us personally, what it meant was our unconditional love for our community we really, really loved over. We really love the people we love. What it can, you know, bounce back to. I know you recently made a post of just wishing we could see so much more and trust me, we are working on that. And so for us, we said, no matter what, highs or lows, zero dollars for a million, we're going to love this community. And so for us, it's not just a community of piercings and tattoos. It was the wholeness of the community of Dover that we wanted to love. So there's so many layers to that name came that, you know, that's kind of what it came from, though.

[Kale]

Honestly, though, like marketing in and of itself because like you just said, people either recognize what it means or they have to ask. And so that's actually a bold marketing move I feel too.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Cody]

And how many people that call it agape? And they're like, oh, yeah, like a hole.

[Tabby]

And again, like, no, it's actually agape, but it's okay. And then they ask, what does agape mean? And we have the conversation. And sometimes like, I mean, it happens all the time when I, when I

[Cody]

answering, I want to say you probably the very first time you came in, but yeah, we.

[Tabby]

I mean, even when I answer the phone and I'm like, agape body piercings, this is tabby.

[Cody]

They're like, oh, what is that?

[Kale]

Say that again.

[Cody]

Agape.

[Tabby]

And then they're like, oh, I thought this was a gape.

[Kale]

Unless it sounds mad, agape sounds way better than a gape. Like, I never thought it was a gape ever.

[Cody]

But you know, and they're like, yeah, like a gape.

[Tabby]

Like. Like a gaping hole.

[Kale]

A gaping hole, Yeah. I mean, Cody does have gauges, so.

[Cody]

Yes. No, it's.

[Kale]

But let's think about being women in business. What is it like being women in business?

[Cody]

You know, coming from the perspective of specifically being a female business owner, a woman owned business, I think that, you know, obviously just being a woman in general in the world that we live in, when it's predominantly owned and run and, and. And you know, male dominant in any industry, in any area or facet of life of business of so much it's challenging. And I think that people can dispute process, people can dispute the way you got there. People can't dispute your fruit. And so I think the moment that people see that whatever it is that you are doing is working, I think they take you a little bit more seriously. I've been invited in rooms with the amount of wealth that just would astound people. And of course, when I walk in just being this very casually dressed, heavily tattooed and pierced woman at the. That I think that they have this perception of, first of all, who's this person Even. What is this person even doing in here? Everybody else is in a three piece suit. Everybody else has M's in their bank account and on their wrist. What is this person even doing here? And then as soon as we start actually discussing real business, real life application of things, then they're like, oh snap, she. She might actually know something.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

And then they take you. Totally. What'd you say?

[Kale]

She's educated. Yeah.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Cody]

Oh, she really is a good Asian. She literally, she. All of a sudden it changes. And again, I'm sure you've dealt with the same thing. You own so many businesses in so many different industries and run so many different companies that until they see the fruit of what you actually do, they don't really take you seriously.

[Kale]

My favorite thing is going, when I travel for work, like getting on a plan plane, when I stand up to get in the first class line, let's

[Cody]

go talk about it.

[Kale]

And it's all white businessmen in three piece suits. And they're looking at me like, there's no way she's sitting in first class.

[Cody]

Yeah, but I. Oh, she won a ticket on a prize somewhere.

[Kale]

She must. Yeah. Did she get an upgrade for free just because I don't look like them? Right. But yeah, I probably have the same amount in my bank account as they do, so.

[Cody]

Not more.

[Kale]

Well, I don't know about that, but.

[Cody]

But yeah, 100%. And I've literally felt the same exact thing flying first class, you know, being in rooms and making purchases that are pretty big. I mean, Tabby and I literally just had a similar experience when I went to go upgrade my, my vehicle. We walked in, the two of us were looking at vehicles, didn't even give us a second glance. We went to Porsche, I was looking at the, the Cayenne. We went to what other two dealerships? We've been to the Lexus dealership. They didn't even give us a second. Didn't say hello, nothing.

[Kale]

Nope.

[Cody]

Two guys that don't have any more of a presence of wealth than we do, but because they're men, all of a sudden, they got so much more attention and love and, and celebration and I'm just like. And they didn't even make the purchase. I was not only had the ability to, but could have made the purchase that day and didn't. All because we were overlooked. But my thing is, is that anytime things like that happen, I wonder what does the rest of their life look like? If you judge so many books by their covers, your life could be so much better if you Would just get rid of that lens. Just that would meet so many more people. You would have such deeper relationships. The same people that throw their cart in the middle of a parking spot and don't, you know, put it back in the car corral. I wonder what your house look like. You understand what I'm saying? People don't need help sinking their own ships. I don't wish ill on those people anymore because they already have ill in their life.

[Kale]

Like, you don't have to wish it on them because it's. They're already carrying it. Okay?

[Cody]

Right. But a boat doesn't sink because it's surrounded by water. A boat sinks when you let the water in for sure, right? So going back to that idea of like, if this man wakes up every morning and tells you, you are so beautiful, you are so intelligent, you are so driven, you are so this and so that no one could walk up to you and say anything differently. It's not about the what's coming at you, it's what you receive.

[Kale]

It's because if he's telling me every day I believe it, I start to know that it's true.

[Cody]

And then going back to faith, when you have a deep rooted understanding of who God made you to be, you live different, right? There's an African proverb that says, to a naked man, any clothes will fit. Meaning if you don't have a deeply understood root of who you are, then anybody that says anything, you, you gonna take.

[Kale]

Yeah, that's true.

[Cody]

You might take a tank top when really you need a jacket, but because you took the tank top first, the jacket's no longer accessible to you. Whereas if you'll give up that tank top and take the actual warmth of a coat that you actually needed, right? It might be challenging, it might be long, it might be whatever. But I'd rather wait for the jacket that I know that I need than take that tank top. And that's what we have so much happening in the world. When it comes to religion, when it comes to the gay community, when it comes to. It comes to money, when it comes to relationships, is that everybody's running around here naked and they'll take anything over, waiting over the right thing. You know, business opportunities, you know, they come at you left and right. There's people wanting to throw money at you, but not all money. Good money, honey.

[Kale]

Yeah, I know. I learned that the hard way.

[Cody]

We all have.

[Kale]

But so do you feel like there's ever. Specifically in Delaware, do you feel support by other small businesses and other women in Business.

[Cody]

So I will say that there, there is a intentionality that has to happen in your journey of, of ownership when it comes to business. In Dover, I can't speak to anything else because again, you're much more traveled and learned than I am. But just speaking about the fact that I started and I'm still in downtown Dover, I will say part of our success has been, number one, the pivot and understanding of marketing. Everybody understands social media is just the way to. To go. I just adopted it much earlier because I understood the necessity of it. I understood the fun of it. I understood the fact that that's how you reach more people. Back in the day, you had to knock on doors to give people a message. Now you can post one posting and millions of people like your, you know, tens of millions of followers, one post and boom, everybody has access to it. So I adopted social media early, which I do believe gave us kind of a great head start, you know. And the message was not we do great piercings. The message was not we carry 14 UN yellow 14 karat gold. The message was, when you want to feel something, when you want to feel good about yourself, when you want to celebrate something, when you want to overcome this season of your life and start something new and fresh, come here. That's what we'll give you. That was been our messaging from the very beginning.

[Kale]

So kind of creating like a community and culture. Correct within agape.

[Cody]

Indeed. But the other thing is letting myself and forcing myself to be involved in the work that is necessary. It is so easy to criticize. It is so easy to say this is what you should and should not do. It is hard to be the ones doing right. Right. The church is filled with people that have so many ideas, but no hands to the plow, as we like to call it. Right. It's the same in business. I made myself be a part of three different boards for downtown. One of them was Downtown Dover Partnership, which is dealing with all the economic development. One of the boards was just a fun block party destination downtown Dover. Who throws like the October fest, a couple of the bar crawls and things like that. Like they throw block. Yeah. Well, it's been, I think two years or so since they had their last event just because the board has gone through a big transition and money's tight, things like that. But all they want to do is just bring people downtown. I mean, we had upwards to 6, 7, 8,000 people downtown party.

[Kale]

There's nothing there for people to go downtown for.

[Cody]

So the event itself was at the time the thing that they're trying to, to go for downtown Dover Partnership is the thing where we're trying to develop downtown and get businesses down, down there and, and get things, you know, developed. The third board that I was on was for, we did the St. Patrick's Day parade for, for the city of Dover for three years in a row. So my point being is, is that you can't criticize the fruit if you're not willing to put your hand to anything. Right. And so I love what you're doing in, in Smyrna in that you, you can't criticize the, the athletic community or what's, what's, what's vacant and not be willing to do something about, something about it. So I think that some of the businesses getting up and you know, know that, that come and that go either don't get involved in the work that's necessary to develop the area that they want developed, or number two, they don't put in the work to try to build their own thing up. They just think that people will just come. And that's not the case anymore. Back in the day when malls were the thing, if you were just in the mall, it was enough. Now the mall is dying because it realizes, oh snap. People can get the same thing at home by clicking a mouse. Not having to put on any nice clothes, not having to do their makeup, not having to drive and spend gas money to get there. So now we had to pivot and create an experience, not just a product. And without that experience and product, you can get it on Amazon for $7 less than that. Dick Sporting Goods. What are you going to do? So what did everybody start to do? Develop an experience. That's why people go to Ulta. That's why people still go to Sephora. She could absolutely stay at home, never go into any of those two places and order everything right online. But why does she go Know there's something about the experience of shopping there.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

That she enjoys. Even if she buys nothing. There'll be times where we go into Kohl's. I'm doing an Amazon return. She somehow finds a way over to Sephora.

[Tabby]

I love the way Sephora smells.

[Cody]

Okay, so anyways, if it could be

[Tabby]

bottled, I would want to wear it.

[Cody]

So for us, with piercings, you could throw a stone and find 12 different shops within a five mile radius that you can get a piercing at. Why do they come to Agape for the experience? Yeah, you know that.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Cody]

You've, you've traveled all around, you've been to Some big cities with some big, big piercing studios.

[Kale]

But it's the. There was another similar to that. We went and got tattoos in a place, New York City.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

The shop was cool, the vibes were cool.

[Kale]

They let all of us sit together while we did it because it was like a bunch of girls from work that went and that. To me, I would go back there, hands down, I would go. I mean, it was. It's in the middle of the city. It was a little costly, but for the experience, I would do it again. Same for you guys. Like, I would go back there 100 times over.

[Cody]

Yeah, and that's the point. People will go back to a place they had a great experience, even if the food or product wasn't the best, over a place that had a phenomenal product and food, terrible service.

[Kale]

Okay, so let me ask you this then. Since you've been on those boards, you're women in business, you've owned a physical business. I'm terrified, right? Like, when Killer Sports opens, I am absolutely terrified. Because part of it. I'm only speaking to the listeners or the viewers of this podcast. I'm only speaking about our local area. I don't know if this applies anywhere else, but everyone wants, wants, wants, wants, wants, and then they don't book, Right? So, like, when I open it, what happens if nobody books? Then what?

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Cody]

Well, this is that juxtaposition of faith versus practical application. What my answer to you would be, if you know that God put this dream in your heart, if you know that God gave you this vision, then you know that he has the one ahead of you making a way. Meaning that you just need to be willing to hear that this big thing, thing that you're putting all of your eggs into that basket. That is a very expensive endeavor that you're getting yourself into. That if you have this understanding that God would not have plugged that in my heart if he didn't have your children. If. If Elliot came to you and said, mom, I want to go to college, and you knew there was no way that they were going to be able to make it to college. Not just from a place of, like, you're not very good at tests or you're not very good with books, but also from place of, how am I going to pay for this? Would you. You keep just slamming that dream in his heart. No. If you knew that he didn't have the gifting for it, if you knew that you didn't have the resources for it, you would not keep plugging that thing in. But if you knew this man is smart enough if you knew I got him. No matter how empty your bank account looks, Big Mama's got you. You're going to keep planting that dream.

[Kale]

Literally. Call me Big Mama. That's so.

[Tabby]

Really?

[Kale]

That is so.

[Cody]

I'm just saying because it shows you the vastness of what they believe in you, sis. Your kids believe you to be so big.

[Tabby]

Explains it.

[Cody]

You know that those boys believe you to be so big that there's nothing Big Mama can't do. So you literally go ahead, but you keep slamming that dream in their heart. It's because you know it can happen. It's the same way with.

[Kale]

With the economy. And then also just like the state of Dover is. Are there ebbs and flows with it though? For piercing specifically?

[Cody]

Just like with anything, right? Like obviously tax time and people's ill set priorities, you know what I'm saying? That's a pretty big season for us. But we don't have as many ebbs and flows as previous places that I've been at with piercings and tattoos. I say that because it's not something that people do just because they have extra money. They come to Agape because they want something. They're expecting something from us. Right? So, like your point, they could go to any piercing shop and if money was the. Was was the determining factor, they would never come to us because we're the most expensive. We're the most expensive for a reason. You know that, right? Between the equipment, the sterility, the environment, the training. I mean, just the amount of money that I've spent in equipment, $30,000 just to make sure your stuff is clean and sterile. Other places they order 50 cent, you know, eBay, needles and things like that. Right, but.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

So, you know, going back to that place of like, faith and understanding that God is ahead of you, making a way you. You live more confidently. And you just understand that as long as I am just willing, if I build it, they will come. Right? I get that it's scary. I sold my Jeep and my sneaker collection to open Agape.

[Kale]

Did you really?

[Cody]

At the time, my two babies. I sold my Jeep, which was three months from being paid off. I sold every sneaker that I owned, which anybody in the room that is a sneaker head knows they are my everything. You and your Gucci vans. Everybody upcycle.

[Kale]

Everybody. The Gucci vans are upcycled.

[Tabby]

I was just gonna say they like,

[Kale]

we're recycling around the two things that

[Cody]

you have invested the most time, effort and energy into. Because I didn't have children. I don't have children. So the two things I invested the most time, effort and energy and resources in to. I gave up to open Agape. The day we opened, we had $47 between the two of us.

[Tabby]

Yeah, that was it.

[Cody]

If I didn't trust God for every single day, there were times we were in the back watching the Walking dead, hoping that people would walk in and pay cash. Because if they didn't, I had to wait till the next day to get my credit cards. We weren't eating lunch. That's how lean things got. But here's the point. No matter how lean things got, we never had none. So now, being on the other side of things and seeing things grow, grow. Even if it does get lean one day, Kale, it's not going to take me out. If Covid didn't take me out, being shut down for six months between breaking my ankle and Covid, if that didn't shut me out, what do I have to fear? Kill you came from being a teen mom.

[Kale]

That doesn't mean people are going to book my training facility.

[Cody]

What I'm saying is you're going to be able to endure. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. It. The people will come.

[Kale]

Let's be real.

[Cody]

You're feeling a need.

[Kale]

But that. But. But so are half the other businesses in Dover. You guys have sustained all these years. Because, I mean, one.

[Cody]

What.

[Kale]

What year did you guys open?

[Cody]

Agape 2019.

[Tabby]

Yeah.

[Kale]

So y' all have been open for seven years.

[Cody]

It'll be seven years this fall. Y.

[Kale]

Okay. Y' all have sustained everything that's happened downtown Dover. I've seen businesses open and close, open and close in those seven years. Right. So I guess I just don't know. I want to. Whatever I need to do to involve myself, but also to bring other people into those business, like, into those buildings to build it up would also give everybody more business.

[Cody]

That's exactly what is being worked on. But, you know, it doesn't happen overnight. There's so much on the back end. It's going to be great. When people see the building, they're not going to see all. They see the tree. They don't see the roots. They don't see the years that you've spent building relationships, raising the money, having doors open to you. They don't see all that. All they're going to see is the building one day. But you know what it took to get there. You also know that you were not going to stop until it Was there. You're going to endure in a way that you've already been prepared for. You've been through so much in your life. What could take you out about now? You've been. There's been everything

[Kale]

it's gonna get. So here's the price tag.

[Cody]

Every month to that point, you're gonna find the niche that only Kale can fill. We found a niche that even though the industry is saturated, the industry is crazy saturated. I want to say there's over a hundred tattoo and piercing studios in the state of Delaware, but I will say the niche.

[Kale]

Some of the piercing portion of the local tattoo shop shops is gone because of Agape in a good way. And I say that's a good way. Not because I want those tattoo shops to suffer any financial loss from losing your piercings, but you guys do it in a way that they never could.

[Cody]

And go. What they do, they focus on the tattoos.

[Kale]

So they need to do what they're focusing on. What they're. What they should be focused on. Right. Is their. Their art is the tattoo part of it.

[Cody]

And the same thing will happen when you open. I hope there will be other locations that say, hey, she's got that part on lock. Let me just focus on what I am doing good at. So we both win and see, that's the difference. Competitive nature comes. Everybody thinks. Everybody thinks there's only one pie, and if you get a bigger slice, I get a smaller slice. When people realize, you got your pie, I got mine. Now we're not competitive. Now I'm cheering you on while you're. I send people to tattoo shops all day long. I'm not like, absolutely all day, every day. I even have people email me the pictures of what they want to get done and tell them what artists I think would be great at that. You know why? Because we both women.

[Kale]

Yeah. That's the mentality I've always had. You can ask Alessandra. Like, that's always the mentality I have. But I guess, like, in an area that's really small, it's hard to not compete because it's so small that, like, if somebody else came in and opened a. A piercing, only then what. You know what I'm saying?

[Cody]

I'll give an example.

[Tabby]

The experience somebody believe is what. Oh, of course. What absolutely has our. Our clients coming back back. I have always said that it's more than a piercing, it's an experience. At our studio, we have had some amazing conversations with clients just about why they're there. They're claiming back Their bodies or they're going through something rough. We've had groups of women come in who they were doing a celebratory remission from one of their friends who had breast cancer. And this was their celebration. They wanted to come to our studio and we were just blown away to be a part of this. I mean we have had just so many conversations and so I feel like we're thriving because it isn't just, just you're not just coming in and just. You're not in and out like you're coming in. We're meeting you, we're greeting you.

[Cody]

We want to get, we're celebrating you.

[Tabby]

We it. This is all about you and we want to get to know you. What are you doing? What are you up to? Why are we doing this? And you hear some phenomenal stories and then you hear some stories that are really like gut wrenching but at the same time you're like, wow. They felt safe enough to come here and share that with us.

[Cody]

You had a woman who.

[Tabby]

A woman owned studio. That's perfect. This is a safe space. You know, we're a piercing only studio. So we have our individual rooms where we can take you in and we can talk to you privately. It's a one on one appointment. So there's not a lot of commotion of people passing through doing other services and stuff. So. So they get a completely experience. They get a completely different experience than they would get at other places. Because we are solely piercings and because Cody has set it up the way that she has for it to feel very boutique esque.

[Kale]

It is, you know, for sure.

[Cody]

I want to make it pretty.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Tabby]

And you know, so we get walk ins and we have people like stop by. But most people, most of our clientele you said, is.

[Cody]

Are

[Tabby]

repeat customers.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Tabby]

So they're repeat clients and they're the ones that we thank all the time because they're the ones that keep us afloat.

[Cody]

You know, to your point of the competition. Right. You could have this entire setup, even have the same editor, even have the same staff put these mics out. You put a different person at the, at the helm of this thing. It's not going to turn out the same. Why? Because you bring a gifting and a perspective and an understanding and a vision that no one else could bring. I could hand my same needles, tools, equipment, everything building to someone else. They're not going to do a copy like me. No, they won't. So you don't have competition. She said this to me and it changed everything. Because I used to, you know, when I stopped working at those other locations, I used to be like, what they are, what they. About what they doing. Right? Like just, you know, you can't compete

[Tabby]

where you don't compare.

[Cody]

Say it again.

[Tabby]

You can't compete where you don't compete. Hair.

[Cody]

They can't touch us because we're not doing the same service. Not because they don't have access to the same jewelry that we have, but because they're not going to do it the way that I do it. No one's going to do that. Sport facility. Sports facility. Like you do it. No one. And so that's the point of faith, is not having this pretentious. Just confidence or cockiness. Because again, kale is. It's not what you're doing, it's not what you're building. It's who you are that you're putting in that place. Agape is not just a piercing shop. Agape is everything that we have poured into that shop. For women to finally be celebrated in a space that maybe the rest of the world could not understand. For some men who just feel like all day long I gotta be this big macho dude, but in here I just want to just get a dope piercing. In here I just want to just be celebrated and relaxed and entertained and this and that. Like, we have guys come in, repeat clients. Clients. Why? Because they're like, man, it feels good to be in here.

[Kale]

Because women are the superior.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

I'm just.

[Kale]

Women are superior. So that's why you come to a woman owned business. You're going to get an entirely different experience than a male owned business.

[Tabby]

So no hate. But it's, I mean, there's a little

[Kale]

hate on my end. Yeah, I am a man hater.

[Tabby]

So I just, you know, I. And, and then when we say you can't compete where you don't compare, it's not saying, like any place is worse than the other. It's just saying that what we're doing is, is, is not the same as everyone else. So what we're giving them and their experience in the business is literally what

[Kale]

has sustained you guys all this time.

[Tabby]

Absolutely. Absolutely. With our kids, doing our kids piercings with our curations. And, you know, we'll have moms come in and say, I wanted to come in first and check it out and get a piercing before I brought my daughter here. Or dad wanted to come in. Dad stops by to see the studio because they've heard great things about us. And he's like, I just wanted to stop by and get a feel for myself before I book my 13 or 14 year old daughter to come in here. And when they come in, we have great conversation. So it's like it's completely different and they're blown away by it. So I feel like that is where we have like found your space and I feel like you're going to do the same thing.

[Cody]

Growth itself will always feel scary. Otherwise there's no growth. If you were 100% certain in it, then there really is no sacrifice. There really is. No. Like the very definition of growth is, it's unfamiliar. The reason you're even willing to do this building is because you've been so successful at all the other things. So you're like, what's next? Otherwise, otherwise you would just keep opening all of the same or more of the same in a different area.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

But the reason this building is on your heart is because God is planning it there. Because you are going to fill a need that is not available, available anywhere else. And, and so again it goes back to this level of faith, of understanding of God, plugs in our heart exactly what we need. But remember, the fruit is not for the tree. The fruit is for everyone else. Your ability to grow all these other businesses was not just for you. Yes. You benefit from it, right? Yes. You've made a living for yourself.

[Kale]

Beneficial. Right.

[Cody]

Everyone else. Correct. Right. And that's why God is going to bless you. Because you have used your, your platform, you have used your resources. You've not gotten cold hearted from all the people that doubted you, that talked trash about you.

[Kale]

But going back to like women in business and stuff, do you feel like your experience as women in business has been good here in Delaware?

[Cody]

I think that it was a tough beginning.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Cody]

Because just like with anything, people don't take you seriously. People don't invite you in rooms right away. I think that once again, people can debate your process, people can debate how you got somewhere, but people cannot debate you, your fruit. I think that once people saw that what I am doing is good, that it works, that people love it, that it's beneficial and that it comes from a good place, I, I get invited to rooms that I never thought in a million years I'd ever be invited into. So I think there is an exponential aspect to how quickly you can go from being the underdog, from being the person that's not taken seriously and then it just is really, really slow and then it takes, takes off. But I think that that's also necessary, at least in my Lived experience because it prepares me. I think that I am really great at preparing for challenges. I haven't always been great at preparing for success, and I think that that is where people mess it up. They're impatient. And then when you don't learn the lessons, when you're at that small scale, you're going to learn a much harder when you're at the upscale. And so I think that I'm grateful for the time that I spent being the underdog. I think it means so much more to me because I was the underdog, because I had to be patient, because it took a few years to pop off. But now that I am on the other side of it, I'm much more humble, I'm much more grateful. I'm much more level and balanced than I would have ever been if I didn't have the haters, if I didn't have the people waiting for me to fall, if I didn't have the. The preparation to time. Right. Like, people hate waiting, but people never hate preparation.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

That's true.

[Cody]

So if you switch that lens from waiting to preparation, and the only difference between the two is expectation.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Cody]

When you have an expectation and you finally say, this is what it's going to be, you'll never look back with regret, then everything that was a challenge simply became a. A vehicle of growth. Right. Like, you know, looking back, back at your history with business and with your fame and with, you know, the things that you've put your time and effort and resources into, you know? Yeah, there were some tough challenges, but that's the reason you are where you are right now. Not that I would have wanted them to be that way. I didn't want us to have these challenges in our relationship and in our business, but I would not go back and change them because it has made us who we are now.

[Kale]

Right.

[Cody]

And I think all of us know that. Does it suck in the moment? Absolutely.

[Kale]

But you all kept pushing through.

[Cody]

You kept pushing through because what could take us out now? I've been through some. I should have died a dozen times when I lived in la, walking down Hollywood Boulevard with thousands of dollars of, you know, of cash in my pocket, because that's how we got paid as club promoters, was in cash. But the point being is, is that I think that these challenges that we go through in life as women, in business, as women in general, I think that, you know, when we say that we're the superior race, it's because just by being a woman, we go through challenges. Men simply, they'll Go through challenges as well, but not because they men. Women go through challenges because we're women. And I think that that's why it's so important that we come together, that we stay, you know, that we stay out of this divisiveness that politics and religion and all these other things can bring us. And I think that we have seen that when women come together with a vision, when women come together with a confidence, when women come together with a level of faith on the future looking good, there's really not much we can't do.

[Kale]

Oh, I would agree.

[Cody]

There's really not much we can't do.

[Kale]

Men will struggle with that, so I struggle with tools.

[Cody]

So whatever. Same. Thank you.

[Kale]

What's next for you guys? And what's next for Agape? I know you guys are getting married in September, so I can't wait to get an invite to the wedding.

[Cody]

So that was step one. She still got to figure out the font and on the. On the paper, on the envelopes.

[Tabby]

So.

[Cody]

But, yes, those are being printed. So the wedding is in September, So we're really excited about that. We're gonna be taking a couple months off after that. Number one. Well, number one, because we got invited for.

[Kale]

Well, wait, you have another piercer over there, too. Other business is still running.

[Cody]

We could not. Oh, my God. We could never do that.

[Tabby]

Take over the phones before. I can do all of that stuff, too, because. Okay, so phones are wild.

[Cody]

When I say the next couple of months, I don't mean, like, the next three months completely off. I mean. So we're getting married in September. We have had a trip planned for, like, three or four years with two of our best friends to go on a trip to New England for, like, two weeks. So we're doing that. I'm taking her home to the Philippines for the first time. She's never been.

[Kale]

What's next for Agape?

[Cody]

So for Agape, I am looking for a second location. Not looking for. I'm. I'm working towards a second location. Probably somewhere in, like, the Newark Christiana area. Just because we have a lot of people kind of in that area that it's tougher to get down to us because of traffic, because of just so much appointments. And we're by appointments. If you're more than five minutes late, we have to reach. Reschedule you. The number of people we have to reschedule from up north is insane. We even tell them, like, if you're more than this many minutes late, so it's tough for them. So we're Thinking about opening a second location up there and then otherwise just enjoying life, enjoying God, enjoying the blessings, enjoying serving people like that's really what it is. And again, to go back to what you're about to, you know, have your endeavor in you're serving others. You could easily spend that money and time on yourself, your family, on anything else. But you're using, using your platform, your resources, your blessings for the sake of others. So again, that, that fruits, that that tree is going to bear fruit.

[Advertiser/Announcer]

I hope so.

[Cody]

Stop worrying about it.

[Kale]

Thanks for coming on Barely Famous.

[Tabby]

Absolutely.

[Cody]

Thanks for having me. Thank you for the invite. I know we've been trying to do this for a few years now. Yeah, I know we've been. But we just never really executed. So it's great to be here. And again, thank you for what you do for the community. Thank you for what you're wanting to do for the community of Dover, of Delaware, of women and, and all these different things. And again, just more than anything, it's not what you're doing, doing Kale, it's just who you are. That is. Thank you. That is the blessing.

[Kale]

Thank you guys.

[Cody]

Okay, guys, we're back.

[Kale]

You asked for it and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on Kalery.com and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because

[Advertiser/Announcer]

you might get it before everyone else.

[Kale]

Finding the one can feel impossible. And in today's world, it's even harder. False profiles, inaccurate pictures, incompatibilities, ghosting on dates. Is this sounding familiar?

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[IQ Bar Announcer]

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[Kale]

I woke up to this blinding light

[Cody]

and I was transported to another place.

[Kale]

Pluto tv.

[IQ Bar Announcer]

Then I heard a voice.

[Cody]

Come with me if you want to live.

[Kale]

There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free.

[Cody]

Truth is that it's just so Beautiful on Pluto TV.

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Free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe, Arrow, the 100 and the X Files may cause excitement, loss of sleep and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV Stream now. Pay Never.

[Child]

Hi there, it's Becca Tobin. I am currently the mother of a four year old, which means I have been through it, but I still have questions and maybe even a few answers. From surrogacy to toddler chaos, I have learned a lot and also not nearly enough. That's why I decided to launch Baby Baby Gang, a six part series from the Lady Gang where I'm getting real about fertility, parenting and all the stuff nobody actually tells you. I'm bringing in some experts for the tough stuff and some other celeb moms and friends for parenting survival stuff. It's honest, it's messy, it's emotional, and yes, we are definitely laughing through it because whether you're in it, thinking about it or just curious, we've got you. So join the Baby Gang wherever you get your podcasts.