From Case Files to Fiction with Ashley Flowers

Summary

Barely Famous Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: From Case Files to Fiction with Ashley Flowers
Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Ashley Flowers
Release Date: May 9, 2025

---

Introduction

In this electrifying episode of Barely Famous, host Kail Lowry dives deep into the intricate world of true crime with none other than Ashley Flowers, the mastermind behind the immensely popular Crime Junkie podcast. As an esteemed figure in the true crime community, Ashley shares her journey from a biomedical researcher to a celebrated podcaster and author, offering listeners a rare glimpse into her creative process and the driving forces behind her success.

Ashley Flowers' Journey: From Science to Storytelling

Ashley begins by recounting her unexpected transition from the realm of biomedical research to the captivating field of true crime storytelling. With a degree in biomedical research, Ashley's initial career path involved genetic research at the University of Notre Dame, where she worked on innovative projects like inserting spider DNA into silkworms to create stronger threads for applications such as Kevlar vests.

Ashley Flowers (02:02): "Every time I reinvented myself, I found a new passion. My journey from genetics to crime podcasting wasn't linear, but each step led me closer to where I am today."

Her diverse background highlights her adaptability and innate curiosity, traits that have undoubtedly contributed to the depth and authenticity of her storytelling in Crime Junkie.

The Birth of Crime Junkie: Passion Meets Purpose

Ashley delves into the inception of Crime Junkie, emphasizing her desire to create a podcast that resonated with listeners seeking meaningful and engaging true crime narratives. Contrary to the typical advice given to aspiring podcasters, Ashley advocates for developing a personal process tailored to one's strengths and preferences.

Ashley Flowers (03:38): "I have a list of ideas on my phone, and my co-writer and I lock ourselves away for days to plot out the entire book. It's meticulous, but it ensures that every twist and turn is perfectly placed."

She credits her best friend, Britt, for encouraging her to explore the podcasting medium, despite her initial skepticism. This collaboration was pivotal in establishing the unique dynamic that defines Crime Junkie today.

Writing Process and Inspirations: Blending Fact with Fiction

Transitioning into her role as an author, Ashley discusses her latest work, The Missing Half. She explains how her extensive experience with true crime cases informs her fiction writing, allowing her to craft realistic and compelling narratives that captivate her audience.

Ashley Flowers (15:48): "Once I have an idea, I know it has the potential to be a hit. I lay out the beginning, key twists, and the end, ensuring everything ties together seamlessly."

Her approach involves drawing inspiration from real-life cases without directly replicating them, thus maintaining the authenticity of her stories while providing fresh and unexpected developments.

Balancing Personal Life and Career: The Challenges and Rewards

Ashley opens up about the challenges of balancing her burgeoning career with her personal life, particularly parenthood. She shares heartfelt anecdotes about touring with her young daughter, who has become an unexpected star, adorning her presence at podcast events and book signings.

Ashley Flowers (44:17): "Balancing motherhood with running a business and touring is exhausting, but seeing my daughter engage with my work makes it all worthwhile."

Her candid reflections offer listeners a relatable perspective on the sacrifices and rewards that come with pursuing one's passion while nurturing a family.

Insights on True Crime Consumption: Morbid Curiosity and Social Responsibility

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the allure of true crime and its impact on both consumers and creators. Ashley articulates the concept of "morbid curiosity," explaining that it serves a psychological need to understand the darker aspects of humanity.

Ashley Flowers (18:45): "We all have this innate desire to peek into the darker parts of humanity. It helps us make sense of the inexplicable and brings a sense of order."

She advocates for responsible consumption of true crime, emphasizing the importance of supporting advocacy work and community engagement to transform passive listening into active participation in making the world safer.

Ashley Flowers (20:43): "Consuming true crime responsibly means supporting nonprofits, participating in advocacy, and being mindful of the narratives we endorse."

Future Projects and Aspirations: Expanding the Crime Junkie Universe

Looking ahead, Ashley shares her aspirations to expand Crime Junkie's reach through books and potential television adaptations. She expresses enthusiasm for the possibility of seeing her work adapted into a limited series, highlighting her commitment to maintaining the integrity and depth of her stories.

Ashley Flowers (35:27): "I see 'The Missing Half' as ripe for a limited series. It's grounded in reality with layers that translate beautifully to the screen."

Additionally, she hints at upcoming projects and collaborations, showcasing her relentless drive to innovate and engage with her ever-growing audience.

Conclusion: Empowerment Through Storytelling

Ashley Flowers concludes by reiterating the transformative power of storytelling in the true crime genre. She emphasizes the dual role of podcasters and authors as both narrators and advocates, using their platforms to foster understanding, support victims' families, and inspire proactive community involvement.

Ashley Flowers (37:47): "Our mission is to make the world better by shedding light on these cases, supporting families, and encouraging our listeners to take meaningful action."

The episode wraps up with Ashley offering resources and directing listeners to her various platforms, ensuring that her audience can continue to engage with her work beyond the podcast.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Ashley Flowers (02:02): "Every time I reinvented myself, I found a new passion. My journey from genetics to crime podcasting wasn't linear, but each step led me closer to where I am today."

• Ashley Flowers (15:48): "Once I have an idea, I know it has the potential to be a hit. I lay out the beginning, key twists, and the end, ensuring everything ties together seamlessly."

• Ashley Flowers (18:45): "We all have this innate desire to peek into the darker parts of humanity. It helps us make sense of the inexplicable and brings a sense of order."

• Ashley Flowers (20:43): "Consuming true crime responsibly means supporting nonprofits, participating in advocacy, and being mindful of the narratives we endorse."

• Ashley Flowers (35:27): "I see 'The Missing Half' as ripe for a limited series. It's grounded in reality with layers that translate beautifully to the screen."

• Ashley Flowers (37:47): "Our mission is to make the world better by shedding light on these cases, supporting families, and encouraging our listeners to take meaningful action."

---

Where to Find Ashley Flowers and Her Work

• Podcast: Crime Junkie
• Instagram: @ashleyflowers
• TikTok: @crimejunkie
• Books: Available at all major bookstores and online retailers. The Missing Half includes a Target-exclusive bonus chapter connecting it to All Good People Here.

---

Ashley Flowers' candid and insightful conversation on Barely Famous offers a compelling look into the dedication and passion that drive her success in the true crime genre. Her commitment to authenticity, community engagement, and creative storytelling continues to inspire both aspiring creators and loyal listeners alike.

Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

Craving your next action packed adventure, Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command. Like Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir where a lone astronaut must save humanity from extinction. Narrated with stunning intensity by Ray Porter. From electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance and far off realms, unleash your adventure aside with gripping titles that'll keep you guessing. Discover exclusive Audible originals, hotly anticipated new releases and must listen bestsellers that hook you from the first minute. Because Audible knows there's no greater thrill than the one that speaks to you. Discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat. Start your free 30 day trial at audible.com wonderyus that's audible.com wonderyus looking for.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Your best sleep ever? Sleep Number Smart beds are literally made for you.

[Ashley Flowers]

They adapt to your changing needs.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So whether you're dealing with sore muscles or running hot at night, your bed automatically adjusts for optimal comfort. Want softer, firmer, cooler Warmer? With personalized firmness settings and temperature control that cools up to 20 times faster than leading competitors, you'll get the perfect sleep environment every night. Why choose a Sleep number Smart Bed? So you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the Sleep Number Everything Smart Bed sale. Every smart bed and base are on sale during our Memorial Day event. Up to 50% off limited time. Exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[Ashley Flowers]

Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're listening to Barely Famous. Welcome back to another episode of Barely Famous podcast. Today we have Ashley Flowers. Welcome to Barely Famous. Thank you and congratulations. Published day for the missing app. So exciting. I know. Okay, you said it took you for. Or you read. You wrote it a long time ago.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay, so tell me about it. Let's talk it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah. Well, the book's been done for like a year and a half.

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh. So what was that waiting for, man Publishing.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I like, it was like you have to find all the right times, right? So like the, the publishers need like a certain amount of time to like get it in bookstores, sell it. Then it was like, by the time it was ready, it was going to be the election. It was like, not ideal.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And then they're like, okay, we can wait till January. But then like, who knows what's going to happen this January.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And so we just, it just kept pushing and pushing and pushing. So we landed on May 6. Somehow it felt like a. It was never gonna Come. But here we are.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. No, it's perfect timing, I feel, because we're just coming off of spring break, but going into the summer so people will have more time to read.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Beach read. That's what I'm hoping for. Exactly.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay, so what inspired the missing half?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So for me, I don't know how, like, the, like, it's always just, like, an idea that comes to me. So the same for my first book, All Good People here, it will be whether it's a concept or one twist. And then for, like, my writing process is kind of built around that one thing.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Which, like, I realized I had an event last night with Gillian Flynn, and I was listening to, like, her and, like, very legit authors talk about their process, and I was like, oh, that's not how I do it.

[Ashley Flowers]

No, I've. I've interviewed a lot of authors, and all of their. None of them have a similar process.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And that's what they said, too.

[Ashley Flowers]

They were like, none of them.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

They're like, our biggest advice to people. People get so caught up in, like, how do you do it? And taking the writing class and, like, taking the course and reading the book about writing. And they're like, the best thing you can do is just put pen to paper and start writing for yourself and figure out what your process is.

[Ashley Flowers]

So do you just, like, carry a notebook around and write notes down all day, or do you sit down and you do deadlines and you, you know, create a schedule for yourself?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So my notes app is on your phone? Oh, yeah. It's psychotic. But I have, like, a list of ideas. And then what? The way that all my actual process for this is, once I have the idea, I have a co writer who's, like, one of my best friends now. Her name's Alex Keister. And her and I go away, we, like, lock ourselves in a cabin or in something for, like, three days, and we get the whole book plotted out. We know the beginning, the middle, the end, every twist in between. We know pretty much how every chapter is going to go. And then once we feel like we have the book, then we set deadlines for, like, okay, we need the third of the book done by this time. Second, and, you know, we should be completely done. Like, then we'll set deadlines for ourselves.

[Ashley Flowers]

I don't know how you do it, because I'm just a fly by the seat of my pants person. So I think I would just. It would take me a year and a half to write a book.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I have too much going on to fly by the seat, my pants anymore.

[Ashley Flowers]

Which I don't even know how you do it all. So how did you. Did you always know that you wanted to write books?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

No, I didn't know that I wanted to, like, tell stories for a living. I. My degree is in biomedical research. Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

So different from what you ended up doing Completely.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Every time. I. I always tell people, like, I kept reinventing myself, which is like, also my greatest advice to someone is like, you're never stuck in what you're doing, and you get one life, like, try new things. So I thought I wanted to go into medicine early on, and so I worked full time at a hospital, was going to school for that. Thank God I worked full time at a hospital because I actually saw what that life was like. Not for me.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay, fair. I mean, you wouldn't have known unless you did it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I know.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And so then I went into research. I did genetics research. I moved back home to Indiana and did genetics research at the University of Notre Dame. And I was putting spider DNA into silkworms. And then what? I know. Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

What does that do? Are you like, creating like a.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So they. Spider thread is incredibly strong, but, like, the web tangles it, so you can't use it. Silkworms, like, spin it in one thread, but. So they wanted the really strong thread, but, like, in a way that they could, like, use it for. I think they use it for, like, Kevlar vests. All these, like, crazy things you wouldn't think of.

[Ashley Flowers]

So it was like a hybrid.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah. So I did that spider man stuff. I did that. And then after that, I went into a, like, a very small six person startup company selling a device that disinfected medical, like, hospital rooms.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And then after that, when I was done with that, I was like, you know what? Like, time to reinvent myself again. Medical sales, not for me. And I googled companies that let you bring your dog to work. And like, you Googled that? Yeah. In Indianapolis. Like, companies in Indianapolis where I can bring my beloved dog to work. I love this so much. And I found this software company. They're a custom software company. So I went and did business development for them. And it was when I was working with them that I started the podcast. So there was like a year overlap where I was doing both. And I, like, growing up, I just, like, I never thought I was a creative person, but I don't think I allowed myself to be. I didn't think there was a future or a viable future.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I. I think, like, my parents were just Very practical. We grew up very poor, and it was like, you got to find, like, you got a good career, something that's going to be, like, stable. Something you can, like, no matter where you go, you can get a job. Looking back, though, like, it was right in front of me. Like, I have video after video where I wrote a mystery story and made. My sister and my cousin were like, all acting it out and I'm directing it. I even, like, inserted commercials because apparently back then I knew you had to pay for it somehow.

[Ashley Flowers]

Somehow, some way, you're gonna fund it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah. So, like, all the signs were there and it wasn, you know, until I fell in love with podcasting.

[Ashley Flowers]

But what made you leap, take the leap into podcasting? Right, because we. You started Crime junkies around the same time. I started my first show in 2017, and I'll be honest with you, I only did it because my co host asked me. She reached out to me, was like, hey, do you want to start a podcast? And everything that I learned about in, you know, going to school for radio, TV and film was like, there's no money in podcasting. This isn't going anywhere. And so I was just like, I'll do it for her. And I didn't actually want to do it. So, like, what made you even want to get into podcasting?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So I like my best friend Britt, who I do crime.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

She had been trying to get me to listen to podcasts for years. She was like, early, like 2010s onto podcasting.

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh, one of the early birds. Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And I. Because I drove a ton for work, I audio booked out the wazoo, and she would tell me about podcasts, and I was like, that sounds terrible. Yeah, I'm not going to listen to one of those.

[Ashley Flowers]

Same. That's where I was.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And she. I finally. She got me with cereal. So in 2014, I got obsessed with cereal.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And then I was looking for anything and everything. I was listening to all of it, the good, the bad, in between, but, like, all crime stuff, because that's what I'm into. And there just was not the format I was looking for. There just wasn't enough good content back then. And so I spent a few years just kind of a learning the space and like, what's working, what's not working, what do people respond to? What does it seem like they like and be kind of just waiting for someone else to make the show. I wanted to hear, okay. And then I finally got to a point where I was seeing that there was no barrier. To entry into podcasts. Like, anyone could do it. And why not try to make the show that I, as a listener, want to hear, which has kind of been my premise for so much of Crime Junkie. And, like, the community is. It's me, right? I know what I want. I know what I was looking for. And it's how I've decided even to go into, like, books, into publishing. Like, everyone initially was like, we just want a true crime book from you, Ashley.

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, it makes sense, right?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And I was like, no, you're, like, not understanding. You're, like, putting my listeners in a box. Like, they're not just into true crime. I'm a crime junkie, and I love fiction novels.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And I think that my. My community, like, are looking for different ways for us to show up in different places.

[Ashley Flowers]

100%. And you've been doing a press tour, so what's that been like?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It's been wild because I'm on tour for Crime Junkie right now. And as the book came out, so, like, Friday, we did Radio City Music hall, and then. Which was wild. And then I, like, had to go to Boston and did Boston. Then I came right back to New York, and then it was like the Today show and then an event with Gillian Flynn.

[Ashley Flowers]

I thought you were on the oppressed tour for your book.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I am now.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So. But I'm also on tour for Crime Junkie, okay?

[Ashley Flowers]

So people can go see Crime Junkie live.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I've got two more shows left, so.

[Ashley Flowers]

Why did I not know this?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I don't know.

[Ashley Flowers]

It's so weird because, like, on social media, I'll have, like, we did tour last year, and they're like, how did I not know you were coming to my city? And it's like the algorithm. If you don't see it, you don't see it, and you completely miss it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And what's wild to me, too. And this is like, we're going on a social media tangen. We've been studying a lot the way that, like, the algorithm is. The algorithm is changing things. It's like, it doesn't matter if you even follow the person.

[Ashley Flowers]

You won't see it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Why? I want to know, like, I'm following this person for a reason. And I feel like it's. The algorithm overrides even, like, what you're subscribed to or what you're following.

[Ashley Flowers]

I literally thought it was for the book tour only.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

No. Yeah, we're on. We're on crime. I got two shows left. I've got one in Phoenix. And we. We go out with a bang in Las Vegas.

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh, that's so exciting. Yeah. And I've heard it's fun to go to Las Vegas right. In the spring. So it's, like, right before it gets too hot.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the desert. It'll be hot.

[Ashley Flowers]

It'll be hot. I guess it'll be hot. So when you first started Crime Junkies, did you then. So Brit wanted to. Wanted you to listen to podcasts. So did you go to her and you're like, all right, let's do this. Or you kind of just came to the idea together, and we're like, we're gonna podcast.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I. I really wanted to start the show, and to me, it only makes. Again, my idea of the. Of the show I wanted was. Was two people really, where one person was telling the story, and the other person was kind of the representation of the. The whole audience that was listening.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And it really was what Brit and I's friendship is, like, where, like. Like, I would come to her and just tell her these stories. I would find we'd have a conversation about it, and it just. I. I never. It's not like I auditioned friends. Like, it never occurred to me it would be anyone else, just because that was the natural dynamic Brit and I had.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And I mean. Yeah, she was like, she's totally. She was so down for it.

[Ashley Flowers]

I love that.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

And then when you decided you were gonna write books, did you just go to her and say, I think I'm gonna write a book?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I don't even know that I went to her. I think. I think I went to her, like, afterwards, and I was like, I have a book. Will you read it?

[Ashley Flowers]

She's like, can you be my beta reader?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

I love that. What did she think? What was the reaction that you got?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I guess for both books she loved, I actually. I leaned on her pretty heavy before the book was done on the first one, because I set the first book in Wakaroosa, Indiana, which is close to where I live, but it is the town Brit grew up on. So, like, I was imagining, like, her farmhouse when I was writing so much of it. And so I had her just read it to be like, okay, make sure I didn't mess anything up. Does it feel really authentic to you, who grew up in Wakarusa? So I leaned on her hard for that.

[Ashley Flowers]

And you guys grew up together. You were childhood friends, Is that right?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

We were born on the exact same day.

[Ashley Flowers]

Shut up.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And we have been best friends for 36 years?

[Ashley Flowers]

Are you kidding me?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

No.

[Ashley Flowers]

How did you meet then? And your parents met in the hospital or what?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Our moms. Our moms were best friends, so we grew up in this, like, very insular cult, like, church.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So our moms were best friends, and her parents had been trying to get pregnant for a really long time. 11 years. And they finally decided they wanted to explore adoption and had, like, done all their paperwork and stuff. And at the same time, my mom had gotten pregnant. And so Britt's mom came to visit my mom in the hospital when she had me, and she's like, you know, it was a very bittersweet feeling. Like, I was really excited for my friend, but at the same time really sad that this was something that I couldn't have, that I wanted so bad. And my mom told her. She's like, well, for all you know, your baby could be being born right now. Like, right? She's looking at adoption. And then a couple of months later, they got Brit and found out she was born the exact same day.

[Ashley Flowers]

How crazy is that?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Never known a life without each other.

[Ashley Flowers]

I love that. Would you ever write a book with her?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It's so funny. We. There was this one case that, like, pre crime junkie, over margaritas and chips and salsa one time, we're like, we should make this a book. So there's, like, definitely bullet points somewhere. But I. I don't know. I mean, her and I work very differently too. I don't know.

[Ashley Flowers]

Really?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah. I don't know what, like, getting through a whole book would, like, look like with the two of us.

[Ashley Flowers]

That might be fine.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Oh, yeah. She's like the spreadsheet queen. She'll keep me organized for sure.

[Ashley Flowers]

I think that's my dynamic. Also, when I show up to podcasts, my co hosts always have topics and I just show up. It's like, I'll ad lib off of whatever you're saying because I don't have enough original thoughts, apparently. Okay, let's talk about Rocket Money for a second, because I'm obsessed with it. This is how I was able to save for my ingrown pool. But also, the first time I ever logged into Rocket Money, I canceled eight subscriptions right off the bat because I forgot about them. I either wasn't using them or I forgot about a free trial. And I didn't cancel. But you guys can sign up for an account with Rocket money and choose $0 when given the option for how much to pay. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and Cancel your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. And you can see all of your subscriptions in one place and know exactly where your money is going. So into the new year, this year, I was like, I want to make sure that I'm cutting back on spending where it's unnecessary. And that's essentially what Rocket Money does. For those of you who don't know and don't want any of those subscriptions, they will find them and cancel them for you. So Rocket Money's dashboard gives you a clear view of your expenses across all of your accounts. And you can easily create a personalized budget with custom categories to help keep track of your spending. See where your monthly spending trends in each category so you know exactly where it's going and where you can cut back. You can also get alerts if bills increase in price and there's unusual activity. Activity. Or if you guys are just going over budget, you guys can track all of that through Rocket Money. The new goals feature automatically saves money for you, so you don't even have to think about that. So it'll help pay off bills, put away money for a house, or just build your savings in general. But Rocket Money makes it so easy. Rocket Money actually has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to 740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket money. Go to rocket.com famous today. That's rocket money.com famous rocket money.com famous. Okay, so was there any point during this writing process with. For the missing half that you were like, this is it. This is going to be the book?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I mean, I. I don't feel like I am a creative enough person to, like, figure it out as I go. I would not have started writing it if I didn't think it was the book.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay, so you already knew before you even started.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah, like, that's what I'm saying. Like, once I have that idea, I'm like, like, this idea. Or the couple of points I have is like, are, like, great enough that I know this will be a banger for sure if I can figure the other pieces out. And for this one, I felt like I had the beginning, a couple twists, and the end. And I was like, as long as I make it all make sense together, yeah, it's gonna, like, surprise people. It's gonna be a really fun ride for crime Junkies.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay. I literally have no idea how you do it, because you talk about crime cases on your podcast, and now you're writing about it. Do you ever, like, feel like it's heavy or, like, for your mental health, you're like, okay, I've had enough for a minute.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

No, really? No. Like, and I. Some. I. I've always say, some people, I think, are just built to live in this world.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think it's why you can be, like, in the FBI or working, like, crimes against children. Like, some people can just operate in a darker space. So I think I'm just. I'm built for it. Like, it's all. It's all I consume. I mean, every once in a while, like, I'll. I'll pop over to a reality show for sure. Like, yes, I was on, like, Temptation island immediately. Like, but it's. It's not as dark, I think, for me, as many people find it, because of the work we're doing. So if I was just consuming. Consuming, talking about. Talking about it, about how terrible the world was about all the bad people and all the way things could go wrong and the end. Stop. The end. Like, yes, that would get very heavy. But we. I mean, we started with this very, like, mission focused. I mean, from day one of, wanting to really, like, change the way true crime is consumed, the way people interact with the community, engage with the content, create the content. And we've done a ton of advocacy work, worked with a ton of families in law enforcement, and. And so, in a way, it's like, by talking about it, I feel like we're making the world better and.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I have the sense of, like, okay, if we weren't here doing this, like, who would be? And I think without the other end of that, it would get really heavy. But since I've had that since the beginning, even when I was just a consumer, before I started, started the podcast, I felt heavy about just consuming it all. So I started volunteering with my local Crime Stoppers. I was on their board of directors. It was kind of like what even that was like the other half of what led me into podcasting, because they were looking for ways to get the word out about their program. It was like. I mean, I was the youngest person on the board by far. And so they're like, you know, everyone thinks we're the Spike, like, Smokey the Bear or Scruff McGruff Dog. Like, we need to advertise. And so if you listen to, like, very. Like, our first couple of episodes are, like, Baked in ads for crime stoppers.

[Ashley Flowers]

Which makes sense, right? I mean, that makes sense to me, but I. I still find it so fascinating that so many of us, myself included, are so fascinated by true crime. Because what about it? What is the morbid curiosity that we all have?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I mean, I think we all like looking into, like, the darker parts of humanity. It. I think it says a lot about who we are as a person, as a community, as a society. So, like, getting a peek when people feel like they can get a peek at that from a distance. I mean, you know. Right. I feel like it's why people like watching, like, reality tv, too. They want to see, like, other people's lives be messy.

[Ashley Flowers]

But why? You know what I mean?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Because I think it makes them feel like theirs isn't so bad. And I think a lot of people have very heavy trauma. I mean, I think the statistics are, like, one in four women experience sexual abuse in their life. Like, I think very heavy things happen. And there is this, like, a little bit of, like, well, it could be worse. Or, like, at least that didn't happen to me. So I think there's a piece of that. I think there's a piece of. Our human nature just wants to make sense of things that don't make sense. And like, we're constantly trying to. To solve things, to bring order to things, so we' wanting to solve the mysteries. And then I think for a subset of our listeners, and particularly women, many of the crimes are happening to women. And I know when I used to listen what a lot, what I was listening for was like. Or watching for whatever I was consuming is like, what went wrong? Like, how did that happen? What could have happened differently? Like, how do I learn something, take something from this to not put myself in a scenario? And we do a ton of, like, education on the show that, like, that people. I mean, we get emails all the time from people that were like, if I had not heard X, Y and Z, like, in this, like, this situation happened to me, I think it would have ended very differently.

[Ashley Flowers]

How do you think people who listen to crime junkies or read your books can change the way that they're consuming the true crime? Because obviously we're not going to stop consuming it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Right?

[Ashley Flowers]

But, you know, how can we help? I guess I know you talked about Crime Stoppers and things like that, but.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think there's a lot of ways. I mean, I think at the. At the very basic way, it's making sure you're consuming something that you feel good about is what you're consuming. Was that created strictly for sensational purposes? Is there a higher mission? Like what. How does the family feel about what's being created? I mean, there are. There are a lot of questions to ask, and each person needs to decide what's important to them. But I mean, truly, just like the choice you make in hitting play is funding ad dollars, is telling studios and industries what to make more or less of. So I think that there is power just in that. And then there are tons of ways for people to get involved in a deeper level. I mean, we do a ton of call to actions at the end of our episodes. So, I mean, there's sign the petition, write the letter to the attorney general, and then there's tons of ways. The way I got involved with Crime Stoppers, I mean, there's a ton of nonprofits nationally, locally for people to get involved in. And so it's really up to each individual person in. In what they. What they want to do. But I mean, truly, just the way what you hit play on is, is changing consumer behavior as well.

[Ashley Flowers]

I agree. I think you're. I think Crime Junkies is the only true crime podcast I've heard have a call to action at the end. But I don't know.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

There are definitely others.

[Ashley Flowers]

I'm sure there are. I just. I don't. Not off the top of my head that I can think of. So I think that's really cool that you guys do that. Yeah, for sure. What do you think sets this book apart from, you know, other books in the same genre?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

The. It really is, like, all of my know how behind it. So I think I really paid attention to a couple of things when I was writing this book. Like, I. The same way Crime Junkie, the show was made for me and listeners like me. I wrote this book for readers like me. I am the reader who, like chapter two or three, I'm, like, guessing based on, like, the order in which people are introduced. Like, all right, you're sus. Like, you're here. I think this twist is coming. I know. Like, oh, well, this can't. Like, I. I know every twist coming. I. Oh, like, I can guess the ending, like, 99% of the time. And so I really wanted to surprise even those people that felt like they've read it all, seen it all, done it all.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And I think having the knowledge that I do, like, I mean, I've told 700 crime stories at this point, something close to that, I've consumed even more. I know what makes a great twist. Like, in all of that content, I know what has stood out to me after all these years. And so incorporating those pieces, I feel like you get like the best of the best. And it's so realistic too. Like, I painstakingly made sure that this book felt like it could happen. Like there's no cheats to anything. Like it's grounded in reality. Even the relationships between victims and law enforcement, victims and each other and victims in the media. I've seen those conversations and those relationships play out. And so I wanted it to feel, even though people will know it's fiction, it feels like it's rooted in reality.

[Ashley Flowers]

And I appreciate that as a, a fiction. Girly. Just overall, I, I don't love thrillers that have such far fetched theories and like twists. I'm like, okay, now this isn't for me.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Like, yeah, are we like, it's like we're venturing into sci fi.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah, like, this isn't for me. And so I do appreciate the realistic grounded in reality, honestly. But. So when you are covering cases on crime junkies, but then also with your novels, like, how do you, how does your brain work? Do you feel like you can solve some of these like, like unsolved mysteries? Because I feel like when you have that type of brain that you just, you're like, this is it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Well, I think every crime junkie does. I think like our, our anthem is probably like, get me alone in a room with that case file and I will be the one to solve it.

[Ashley Flowers]

There are a couple cases though, that I just don't think that I like, I, I obviously have my own theory, but not one that I'm like, okay, this is what happened for sure.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Like, and I, I agree. I don't know. Well, that's the thing saying I think I could solve it given the right power and resources. Like if I were the one who could order the DNA testing or go actually interview the person. But I, I don't know that there are. Is any that are unsolved that I'm like, oh, without a doubt. I know.

[Ashley Flowers]

No, not even JonBenet Ramsey.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I do not know anything. Without a doubt in that case.

[Ashley Flowers]

Really? Dude, I thought maybe you had it figured out. Like you would be the one to figure it out.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Listen, I'm still trying. Just because our episode is done does.

[Ashley Flowers]

Not mean that you haven't stopped thinking about it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Does not mean I didn't have a meeting a week ago to talk about this case with our legal counsel.

[Ashley Flowers]

I think everyone was really impressed and also really excited that you got to interview John Ramsey in his home. That's. What was that like? To interview him in. In his home.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It was weird.

[Ashley Flowers]

Did you get any eerie feelings?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah, but, like, how much of that is me and how much, like, it was. It was just, I think, a strange sensation overall. I mean, because truly, I mean, they've got this, what they call their grandkid room. And, I mean, JonBenet is not a grandkid, but, like, she's always six forever, and there's literally, like, her. Her boots and her tap shoes and, like, to be in that, like, the last page she colored at. At Jay's restaurant, like, framed on the wall. Like, to be in that room was just very, very strange. To hear him talk about her in person is really strange because he's so.

[Ashley Flowers]

Far removed from her as his daughter, it almost feels like she's a granddaughter. I think I read online.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I don't. I don't know that it's like. I don't. I don't think that's what it is. I mean, like, at some point, she. I don't think she. She feels like a granddaughter to him. I just. She just never got to grow up. Like, they only have. Have six years of memories, but it was. You know, it was like we went. We. We traveled out there, and I thought it was a great interview. I got to ask him some tough questions that I didn't really get answers to, but it was also interesting to hear him say, like, verbatim, like, word for word, the stuff I had just read in, like, a 1996 transcript. So, I mean, it's.

[Ashley Flowers]

Did your feelings change compared with what you thought before you interviewed him?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

No, I think my feelings changed as I started really digging into the case. But, like, the more I dug and dug and dug, I. I still don't know what. Again, I can't. I would be lying if I said I know what happened.

[Ashley Flowers]

I don't think he did it. That's just my thoughts. I won't put you on the spot and ask you what yours are, because if you have meetings about it, I don't want to, like, jeopardize whatever you have going on, but I don't think he did it. He might know what happened, but I don't think he did it. It. That's. Those are my thoughts on it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I truly don't know. Like, I. I truly have no idea what happened. I. But I still think that something happened in the house that nobody wants to talk about.

[Ashley Flowers]

I do, too. That's exactly what I think. But I Don't think it was him. I don't know.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It's so literally nothing makes sense in this case. And like, you can, you can spy out forever. Like, yeah, I think about the note for like, the next 10 years. Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. What was your favorite part about writing the missing half? And also what was your favorite part about writing all good people here?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think the fact that it was all fiction was such a nice break because I got to still play in the world of mystery and twists and all the things I love about trying to solve a case, but with the stakes being absolutely as low as they can be. Like, there's no real family on the other side of this. There's no investigation to, like, hurt. Like, I just got to have fun without a lot of the pressure of a true crime case.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And it was like, that's what I enjoyed the most.

[Ashley Flowers]

Is there anything that you would pull from real life cases that you've talked about on the podcast and would say, okay, that could make sense in a story? Obviously not, you know, exact things, but just you're like, okay, well, that's a really twisty piece of this case that could work in a book there.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yes. And I would say, like, they, I don't really go into it thinking like, oh, I'm gonna put this from this case. But they all stay with me enough that I look back and I'm like, I can look at some of the twists and be like, oh, that reminds me of this case. Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Like, I was talking at the Gillian Flynn event last night. There is part of, like, the theme of this book is the idea that when someone goes missing, especially at a young age, you really get like a snapshot of their life. And that 19 year old people will infer everything about you, about, like, who you were at 19 and because you didn't have the chance to grow up. And like, we were all a hot mess when we were 19. And one of the pieces, it talks about how people are picking her apart. Like she stole this nail polish or something from a store. And it did remind me of, of the Maura Murray case. She went missing when she was 21. And after she went missing, like, people just ripped her apart online. I mean, they were calling her a psychopath. They were like, I mean, diagnosing her with, like, mental illnesses based on things like she stole a lipstick or she.

[Ashley Flowers]

If that gives any. What does that have to do with her going missing? Right. Like, is she less of a human?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Well, they're saying, like, oh, it was, it all played into who she was, and maybe she had more secrets and maybe, like, so. And I see that happen over and over again where people just feel like they can look at this much of someone's life and, like, know who they are, and it's just wild to me. So, like, I will. I'll pick out, like, little things like that in. In the rear view and like this in this one, too. There. Oh, I don't want to spoil it, but there's. There is one piece of this story that looking back on it, I'm like, oh, my God. I know I've heard a story like this before, but now I, for the life of me can't find what the real story is. It's. It's one I know we never covered, but, like, it's killing me.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. Do you feel like you also in the spotlight, you have audio check. You're an author now. You have the. The podcast. You're a mom. Like, you're doing all of these things. Do you feel like people also pick you apart and feel like they know you based on however much you show?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I don't really read a lot of the Internet to know what it is they're saying about me that makes one of us. Really. Do you read all the comments?

[Ashley Flowers]

It's bad how? I don't know. I. And I'm getting better at it. Like, I have, like, a team that helps me, but I.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

You also kind of, like, grew up in it, which has to be a lot harder.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah, I feel it. And to your point, like, I feel like I'm still stuck in at 17. Like, I feel like people still hold on to who I was when I was 17, 18, 19, which is bananas. Like, weird.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Thank God people didn't know who I was at 19. Like, like, if they. If they only looked at that or I went missing, like, I would never have the chance to grow up and be like, oh, successful Ashley Flowers. Yeah, girl. I was like a hot mess trying to figure it out watching Teen Mom. Like, I didn't know what I was doing. You watch Teen mom, obviously.

[Ashley Flowers]

It's so weird because I'm like, I. I guess I don't put myself at. On that same level. So anyt. Like you or. You know, I had Carly Fortune in here earlier. Like, they. I. For them to know who I am feels so weird because I still feel like I'm 17 and like, just not real. I don't know.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I feel the same way. Like, when I go and meet, I'm always like, I. I'M like, I'm not gonna bother anyone, like. But I don't. I, like, probably freaked out. I don't. I don't know. I don't know, man. I just. I'm like, it's just me. Like, I don't give up.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. So. No, I get that.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I definitely have imposter syndrome.

[Ashley Flowers]

Same. Well, did you have imposter syndrome for this book? Or you were like, it had been so much time since you wrote it that you're like, I'm ready for it to get out.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Oh, I'm ready to get out. I think I always do a little bit, but I. And this is. I think this is the really, like, essential part that I'm grateful for is that a lot of my success didn't come until I was, like, 30. And so I had time to, like, really figure out who I was and, like, what was important to me and what. Whose opinions I valued and whose opinions actually, like, would change me and my life and all of that. And so I do have this. This usually this sense, like, I want people to love what I. Because I. I'm making it for them. I want them to love it. But if people hate it, it's not like it won't kill me.

[Ashley Flowers]

No one's going to hate it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I know. I'm pretty. I'm pretty confident in it. I'm pretty confident. I'm pretty confident in it.

[Ashley Flowers]

You said. I know. How do you separate? Yeah, I. I kind of touched on this a little bit already. But how do you separate the emotional, like, reality. Your reality with all of the heavy cases, how do you separate them? You just. You just do. Like, do you go home to your family and you're a mom and you don't talk about tri. Crime and cases?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Not. I mean, that's my daughter. She's only three right now. But, like, I talk about it to my husband. Yeah, I mean, this is. This is what I do for, like, at work. And so, like, if I'm not talking to him about the case file that I'm, like, reading in bed at night.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Because this is what I enjoy. Like, that's. I mean, it's like going home and talking to your spouse about what you did at work.

[Ashley Flowers]

Is he as obsessed as you are? Because I think I know men aren't. What is that?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Or at least not. I mean, some of them are into it. Like, I know we have male fans and not creepy ones. So far. So far, so good.

[Ashley Flowers]

I feel like I've never met a man that is as invested in True crime as I am. Like, I fell asleep to the ID Channel.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Same.

[Ashley Flowers]

You know what I mean?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Same. They're very rare. Yeah. My husband, he's like, well. And it's not like he doesn't like it. It terrifies him. Well, I can't watch Law and Order svu. And I'm like, boo. That's like. It's so fake.

[Ashley Flowers]

You should make a cameo on svu.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

You know how hard I'm trying.

[Ashley Flowers]

You absolutely should.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I have been telling everyone. It's like, on my life. Neither. They're not here. We need to get around telling them forever. I was like, I just like, let me play the dead body. If nothing else, something.

[Ashley Flowers]

A barista, anything.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I know.

[Ashley Flowers]

That would be so cool if you could be on any.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

The guy who's just like. She's just, like, stacking. It doesn't matter if they're asking about a murder. She's like, still got to do her job. Like, I'll do that lady.

[Ashley Flowers]

Or even just, like, act in a. Like a series or something. That would be really cool.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

People love a good crossover.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I want to do when the. When the book is TV or film or something like that. That's the goal is to do, like a.

[Ashley Flowers]

Is it optioned?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

No, but it will be. I'm manifesting.

[Ashley Flowers]

Have you had calls about All Good People here?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah. And I, like, I just want to make sure. It's really hard to, like, give up your baby to someone.

[Ashley Flowers]

I've heard that.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And let them do with it what they will.

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, because I think, at least from what I've heard, they have to, like. I don't know how many pages. All Good People is here. Art. All Good People here. Thank you. Yes. I don't know how many pages that is, but what I've heard is they have to, like, cut it down. Like, basically cut it in half to make it into a tv, like a movie script. And so it's really hard when you've worked so hard on this baby and they have to cut it and change it to make it fit into, you know, one and a half hours. Yeah, I can imagine that that would be really hard to.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It's the cutting. It's the. I mean, when I had some initial conversations and they wanted to change, like, major plot lines, and I was just like.

[Ashley Flowers]

But then it changes everything. I know.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I'm like, just go write another story.

[Ashley Flowers]

Why.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Why do you even want mine?

[Ashley Flowers]

But you have. You have high hopes for this one to be on the big screen.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah. This one doesn't involve Children. Children was also the issue with all good people here. People are. Are a little wary. This one, I think, is like, an easier sell. So I think this was like, this is ripe for a limited series or short film or something.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay. So Dreamcast, do you have one?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think that for. I haven't thought about all of the characters, but I think that for Nick. I really loved Anna Kendrick when in the latest show she did on Netflix about the Dating Game killer. She's done, like, a really good, like. Like dark character. And I don't know, like, I. I could see her being Nick.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Anybody else that you've thought of?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Not really. For this one, I spent so much time thinking of all good people here. I always. I'm like, always vying for merit. We. She's incredible. I have to, like, specifically, though, write an older character for her in my next book because she was in, like, Nurse Jackie. She was an unbelievable. On Netflix. She does. Oftentimes she's like the sidekick character. Like she. She was for a lot of people who watch Severance. She was in Severance. Oh, she's so good.

[Ashley Flowers]

So those two people. Would you want a limited series or, like, a movie?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think for all good people here, a limited series.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think for the missing half a.

[Ashley Flowers]

Movie, that would be so cool. You'd have to get an EP credit.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I'm, like, thinking I'm this close to writing it myself.

[Ashley Flowers]

You should. Why wouldn't you? Sure.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I'll just, like, you know, give me a long weekend. I'll write a movie script.

[Ashley Flowers]

Do you have plans for a third book?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I haven't, like, I have not had my writing retreat yet or set deadline.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

However, I do have. Have the one idea to build it all around.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

That has been like, sitting with me for probably the last year. And so I'm like, at the point now where I'm, like, starting to itch. I need to, like, get it out.

[Ashley Flowers]

Before it just completely goes out of your head. And do you just put it in your notes app?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Put in my notes app. I've told my co writer Alex about it. I told my agent about it last night. She gave her gooseies, so I know it's a good one.

[Ashley Flowers]

I love that you always know when you have a good feeling. Right. What do you hope people take away after reading the Missing Half?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think some of the stuff we talked about where in the. In the first book, one of the big things that I wanted is just this sense of like, hey, you never know what's happening behind closed Doors.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And for this one, a little bit of it is that sense of, like, you don't. You cannot look at the week, the month, the year leading up to some event and pretend like you know that victim or the way you're going to talk about that victim or like, you know, them or their family or their circumstances. There are just layers and layers and layers. And I mean, it go. It ties back to the first. You don't know what's happening in their life, in their family, or who they would have become had they had the time to grow up and make choices or even if they're older, make. Just make different choices. So it's a little bit of that. Like, can we just give people the benefit of the doubt? Can we not assume the Internet. I just like the way that we feel like we can talk about people we don't know is just wild to me.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. I don't know how we get the audacity, to be honest.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Crazy.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. No, for sure. Do you have a case or cases that have stuck with you since 2017 or even before that, before you started Crime junkies.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

All of them.

[Ashley Flowers]

All of them.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I have, like, truly, it's my superpower. Like, the. I could retell you a story that I told a year and a half ago. Like, I. The details of cases are just, like, locked in my brain. But there. I mean, there are a few that are just, like, so wild that if I'm ever, like, talking to someone about it, they, like, come up over and over again. Like, there's a case of this guy named Robert Juan, who, in D.C. was murdered, and he was, like, in town for work. He, like, took the train in. He ended up having to work late. So he doesn't go back home. He just stays with friends in the city. His wife and his family are home. And he gets in his jammy, he goes to bed, and he is found with a knife, like, in his heart. Like, he's been stabbed. There's, like, not no blood. The people in the home, like, no one broke in. They swear that someone had to have broken in, but, like, they're acting super weird. It feels like they showered before police got there. It is. It is bizarre. Beyond bizarre. And, like, no one can explain it. And so it's like, it's those where they're obviously always the unsolved ones that I get obsessed with. Maura Murray will be, like, forever what the Internet talks about. And I'm right there with them wanting to know what happened.

[Ashley Flowers]

How long do you study or research a case before you talk about it on your podcast?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think it depends. So if for like the weekly show, we have a team now of reporters, so they're out like all over the country going in, interviewing family detectives. If it's something for like our weekly show, usually there's at least a few weeks that go into it it, if not longer. Because a lot of times we're just juggling a ton of stuff at once and things come together slowly. You have to file FOIA requests, you have to line up interviews, and you're like doing multiple at a single time. But then there are others where we do like, I have a limited series called the Deck Investigates and me and a reporter spent eight months like, like working on this non stop. And we got our like 10 episode series or whatever. So it really varies. It's kind of all over the map app.

[Ashley Flowers]

That's incredible.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot of work. A lot of people go into it too now.

[Ashley Flowers]

And so then for one episode you have put months and months or weeks together to do one episode, but then you. The next week you have to have an episode to air.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It's the. I was telling Brett the other day, I was like, I feel like that like old. I don't know if it's a Sesame street song where it's like, this is the job that never ends.

[Ashley Flowers]

No, because I've stressed out about just regular recordings and we're just bullshitting our way through the episodes and I'm like, do we have enough topics week? And you're over here investigating like lengthy cases.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It's wild. But again, like, this is why we have. In the, in early days when we started, I mean, it was just me and so I had to do everything in a week. Like that's just how it was. And but as we've gotten more resources, more whether it's, you know, money, people, whatever, it's part of the responsibility. I feel like, hey, like the show has grown. I have to, to. I have more. I have to do more with what I have.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

And so I wanted to make sure that we were doing a ton of original reporting, that we were making an effort to cover cases that weren't getting coverage everywhere else. And so our, you know, it started with like a couple of four years ago, I hired two reporters. I was like one for the Deck and one for Crime Junkie. And now, I mean, all of audio check is 80 people and huge.

[Ashley Flowers]

80 people.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

80 people.

[Ashley Flowers]

Did you ever envision this is where you would be or did you dream big from the beginning?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I absolutely did not think this is what I was gonna do.

[Ashley Flowers]

80 people.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I, I never started as, like a hobby. Like, I did give myself one year. I was like, this has to be a job because I knew how much time I was gonna pour into it. And, but, but at the one year mark, I was like, if I can't quit my full time job, I have to quit the podcast. And like, right at the one year mark I made it. But I also, when I left the job I was at, there were like a couple of things I saw. I mean, I saw that, like, employees were always like, it was like the HR of everything. I saw it way I'm on the owner of the business. I was like, oh, hr, not for me. And then I saw how much I hated slack.

[Ashley Flowers]

We use slack. I don't use slack. The team uses slack.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah, I like it drives me bonkers. And so I was like, so cocky when I left. I was like, and I love Bob. He actually works for me now. He's the owner of the company. But I was like, I was so cocky. I was like, bob, I'm never gonna have, like, employees. It's just gonna be like, me and Britt and my brother and I' never going to have slack. And now we've got 80 employees and like 400 Slack channels.

[Ashley Flowers]

And you're like, I can't, I can't live without slack. Yeah, it's like the aim of today, like, work.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I have been telling everyone that AOL is missing a huge opportunity if they made an aim for business. Do you know how quickly us millennial.

[Ashley Flowers]

Business owners would do you know what aim is, Lissa? Do you? Okay, they're, they're in their 20s, so I didn't know if they used it. I wish they would bring that back. And sidekicks, because my sidekicks for AIM business. Absolutely.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I don't know who at AOL I need to talk to, but AIM for Business is my million dollar idea.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah, no, truly, I'll just be the assistant, the coffee runner while you have that meeting. But that is so funny. 80 employees is insane. And here you are with books and Audio Chuck and Crime Junkie and. And I. How do you do it all? How do you balance being a mom and this?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I mean, like, I'm trying. I, I hopefully, hopefully it goes well. I like the, you know, proofs in the pudding. And she's not grown up yet, but I think I'm doing a good job. I tell people, like, my version of Having it all, like, that's just had to change. Like. Like what I wanted to have it all in. Business is completely different. Like, having it all and, like, mom, like, if I'm gonna keep the business going and you make sacrifices both places, I have to say no to business things to spend quality time with my daughter. And I've had to skip out on things that, like, my daughter's doing because I've got work commitments. But I'm like, you know, and in trying to do it, I mean, it makes me tired. I've got. I am gone because I'm touring for Crime Junkie and the book. I was gone for a whole week. So she's in New York City with me right now. And, like, in between meetings, when normally I would, like, take a break, I'm like, I'm having to play, attend. But it's so cute because she's like, she got to go see me. Just say hi on stage. Every other city. And so now her new favorite thing is she'll, like, find something that's, like, a stage. She was on the toilet seat today, and she's like, goes. She, like, takes her little hair, and then she's like, hi, crime Junkies. And we have to scream for her, and it's freaking beautiful.

[Ashley Flowers]

I love that. I just had my first daughter, so I'll be curious to see how she gets to be when she's around that age.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

So spicy.

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh, she's spicy now. And she's 18 months old, and she's a twin with a boy. So the boy is, like, super cool, calm, and collected, but she's spicy. So when you're saying, like, she's on stage and, like, oh, yeah, but, like, that's my dream for my daughter, is for her to, like, have a fun personality and, like, be fun fun. So, yeah, I mean, I'll accept her no matter how she is, but it would be fun to have one that.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Is really a big personality. It really is fun. And, like, I forget because sometimes I watch her with other kids, and I'm like, oh, other kids are kind of boring because Josie's so real. She's just so, like, she's on the carousel with her face painted like a tiger, singing as she, like, oh, I love that.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah, I love that. Do you think she'll take over Crime Junkies when you're done?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think she's gonna try.

[Ashley Flowers]

That would be amazing.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

But I think she's likes the limelight of it too much. Like, okay, that's, like, all the red flags in true crime like, if you're doing this for the limelight, you're in it for the wrong reasons. The recording, the performing is, like, my least favorite part of all of it.

[Ashley Flowers]

Like. Like on stage.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

You mean on stage even. Even, like, in the podcast. Like, having to, like, figuring out the story and doing the reporting and, like, all of that. Like, that is where I find so much joy and, like, getting it to the finished product, but then, like, then we have to record it.

[Ashley Flowers]

You don't like that part?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah, the, like, the. I'm good at it. I know. I know what I'm good at, but it's not my favorite part.

[Ashley Flowers]

No, we were talking about it before you guys came in here, that your voice is meant for, like, radio ever.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Like, in a million years. Thought that, but. Thank you.

[Ashley Flowers]

Do you edit your own stuff or does someone else edit? Because I cannot hear my own voice. I don't want to hear my own voice.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

No.

[Ashley Flowers]

When I say it on the podcast, that is the last. The first and last time I'm saying it and hearing it.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I had to edit, like, a few episodes early on.

[Ashley Flowers]

What do you think the turning point in your success was? Like, when you said you gave yourself one year and you sort of hit it at that. One year. Mark. Mark. For people who are trying to break into the podcasting space or the writing space and want to be an author, like, what would you suggest? How did you. How do you think that crime junkies really hit the ground running?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I mean, for me, it was a lot of, like, the. I mean, I was doing my own, like, on the ground marketing. I. I had, like I said, I kind of studied what other podcasts were doing and not just, like, in their content, but I was, like, watching the way that they were cross promoting with other shows and how they were getting the word out, and I knew who my listener was. Like, I had that dialed in. And so I felt like when I had a little bit of my own money to do marketing, like, if I. Or if I had nothing, but I had to go find them. Like, I knew where to find them, okay? Because I knew who they were. I think if you're. If you go out and it's like marketing 101, but if you go out and you're like, well, my show's for everybody. Okay, well, maybe someday, I hope for you, but, like, who are you trying to talk to today? And if you could get a hundred listeners, readers, like, who is it for? And the more you know that, the more you can lean into it.

[Ashley Flowers]

Okay.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I think that really Helps. But I was doing everything, man. I was like, I bought car magnets and would just like everywhere I would drive, I'd like drive around with like the Crime Junkie podcast on my car, just like, let people know it's a thing. I bought these little stickers and every time I would go to a bar or a rest stop, like, I'm like, I know who's my audience is these, like, women. I'm like putting them all over women's restrooms. I'm like leaving the cards everywhere. So I mean, I was like doing boots on the ground stuff myself.

[Ashley Flowers]

You sign other shows to Audio Chuck, right? So do you help them also break into the space or is it like people that like, are you helping them develop or is it already established shows?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

We've done both. And so. But a lot of like, what people come to us for if we want to bring a show in the network, is that what we have built up is this network and now, I mean, discoverability and podcasting is so hard. And one of the most effective ways to get people to listen is to advertise on other podcasts where the audience is. And so having that built in audience where we're now getting, getting, you know, 10 million people to show up every week, if we can tell those 10 million people to go listen to something else.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

It. It's like we've got our own, like, built in marketing machine now.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right. Okay, that makes sense. We. I have one of my best friends is trying to break into the podcasting space. So I hope that she listens to this and that helps her.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Oh, perfect.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah. And where can people find the missing half? All good people here tell us where to find you. Crime junkies and audio chat.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Yeah. So Crime Junkie podcast on Instagram. I am Ashley Flowers on Instagram, Ashley Flowers, crime junkie on TikTok. And both of my books are now officially available wherever books are sold. I will say that for those who read the first book, there is a Target exclusive book that has a bonus chapter that actually does tie back to the end of All Good People here. And it kind of brings the universes together and it gives people answers, more answers. Answers to the end of All Good people here.

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh, that's really exciting. Yeah. Thank you for coming on Barely Famous.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Thank you so much. This is amazing.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yes.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

I'm Kaitlyn Bristow, host of off the vine podcast, where I get real, maybe a little too real sometimes. Sometimes with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor Franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness. Na na na na na na na.

[Ashley Flowers]

Na na na na na na na?

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Nikki Glaser. Wells Adams. Elise Myers. Just like in this, like, business jacket. Like, I would love some tacos. Heidi d' Amelio. Big Brother's Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened and we're going to get through it and so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions and get a little vulnerable. Because you know what?

[Ashley Flowers]

We're all just floating on this weird little planet together.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Follow rate and review off the vine podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. Are you looking for your next case? Pluto TV has all your favorite crime dramas streaming for free. Gonna need some backup.

[Ashley Flowers]

Which means suspense is free.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Very cool. Watch CSI New York, Criminal Minds, Blue Bloods Tracker, FBI and SWAT all for free. You can't outrun this. Someone is gonna pay for all this crime, but it's not gonna be you. Take care of business, fellas. Watch all the cases, all for free from all your favorite devices we got you.

[Ashley Flowers]

Feel the free Pluto TV stream.