From Combat to Conservation Part 1 with Jimmy Armel

Summary

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Barely Famous – "From Combat to Conservation Part 1 with Jimmy Armel"

Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Jimmy Armel
Date: May 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deep and compelling episode, Kail sits down with Jimmy Armel—Army veteran, former Ranger, and founder of the nonprofit "Not Lucky"—to unravel his extraordinary journey from combat deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan to providing offshore fishing adventures and shark tagging missions for veterans. The conversation covers Jimmy's military service, the traumas and challenges faced by veterans, candid reflections on war and American politics, personal battles with addiction and recovery, and the genesis of his conservation-driven nonprofit. Raw, unfiltered, and brutally honest, this is an episode for anyone seeking to understand the realities behind military service, recovery, and the transformative power of purpose.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction to Jimmy Armel and 'Not Lucky' (02:31)

• Jimmy owns both the "Not Lucky" boat and its affiliated nonprofit.
• The headline draw is shark tagging, but the core mission is broader:
  • Not Lucky takes any veteran or active duty service member (and immediate family) offshore fishing at no cost (03:02).
  • Shark tagging is a special winter initiative: satellite tagging great white sharks and naming them after veterans lost to combat or suicide (03:33).
• "Fishing is the front door. So Not Lucky takes any veteran or active duty service member offshore fishing free of charge. They can bring immediate family. ... We love having the kids out." – Jimmy (03:04)
• The tagged sharks' movements and data are made available for global research via Gray's Fish Tag Research (04:17).

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Jimmy’s Background and Unexpected Path to the Military (05:02)

• Grew up in Winchester, VA; family is rural, outdoorsy, and hunting-oriented, though fishing was his personal interest.
• The decision to enlist came unexpectedly after a night experimenting with psychedelics.
  • After seeing news coverage of the Iraq war while on LSD and ecstasy, Jimmy felt a calling to "see for himself," believing he couldn't judge without direct experience (06:51).
• "I always say it was God. That was like, was it God or was it the drugs?" – Jimmy (07:17)
• Enlisted literally the next day, arriving at the recruitment office "still up" from the night before, wearing only cutoff jeans, a straw hat, and no shoes (07:42).

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Army Service, Iraq, and Transformation (10:25)

• Joined with no idea what job to pick despite high ASVAB scores; chose frontline infantry to "see what it was about" (11:03).
• Multiple deployments: Iraq (2007-2008), then five tours to Afghanistan with the Army Rangers.
• Early trauma in Iraq:
  • First day in country involved an ambush with severe casualties due to explosively formed projectiles (EFPs) (16:03).
  • "Imagine a coffee can filled with explosives... copper turns into a molten copper slug... go through concrete, engine block, and another wall." – Jimmy (16:16)
• Jimmy suffered brain injuries from blast concussions, ultimately leading to medical retirement (17:11).
• First tour was marked by both violence and attempts at humanitarian assistance, including supporting local families, advocating for vulnerable Iraqis, and even trying to adopt a child (21:04).
• Emotional toll and personal trauma are addressed candidly, especially the accidental death of a child during a raid and the lifelong burden it has imposed (24:20).
  • "I took my first bad guy life and then I accidentally killed a child that deployment. And that was something that I've carried a long time." – Jimmy (24:20)
  • Recent healing work in Peru using Ayahuasca helped him forgive himself.

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Reflections on Prejudice, Politics, and the Realities of War (19:01, 39:33, 47:02)

• Kail and Jimmy discuss how war and culture intersected with American prejudices post-9/11.
• Complexities of attitudes among locals toward US troops—some helpful, many fearful, all under threat by insurgent brutality (21:04, 23:37).
• Graphic and frank discussion of atrocities witnessed, such as child abuse and sexual violence in both Iraq and Afghanistan (45:54, 46:30).
• Political critique:
  • Open skepticism about the justification for the Iraq War, government propaganda, and exploitation of conflict for political and economic gain (47:17, 50:13).
  • "I 100% believe the Bush administration allowed 9/11 to happen... Because then you have Cheney, who was the big wig at Halliburton... kickbacks... trillions." – Jimmy (49:04)
• Sharp contrast drawn between the “public story” at home and the experienced reality on the ground.

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Mental Health, Addiction, and Returning Home (30:09–71:15)

• Upon returning, the military’s mental health support and reintegration were ineffective and largely consisted of superficial surveys; honest responses risked career-ending consequences (26:02).
• Parallel drawn between challenges for returning veterans and postpartum depression—systemic stigma keeps people from getting real help (29:41).
• Many veterans are quickly placed on multiple psychiatric prescriptions, often without meaningful therapy or support (31:17).
• Jimmy’s personal struggle with PTSD, heavy alcohol dependence, deteriorating living circumstances, and eventual suicidal crisis described in harrowing detail:
  • "I went from hanging out of a helicopter... to living in dog feces." (63:13)
  • Pivotal moment: saved from suicide by his dog, Skiff (64:57).
  • Recovery began with a withdrawal-induced near-death experience and a powerful, otherworldly realization: “This isn’t the hardest thing I’m going to ask you to do. And I'm not done with you yet.” (69:59)
• Reflections on stigma and misconceptions about PTSD and mental health among veterans and the public (70:39).

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Reinvention, Employment Struggles, and Purpose in Conservation (70:34–74:11)

• Faced with the impossibility of traditional employment (applied to 53 jobs; rejected), Jimmy realized he needed to find something deeply purposeful.
• Despite having managed multi-million-dollar operations and complex intelligence duties, he couldn't translate those experiences to civilian work or overcome stigma.
• Inspiration for "Not Lucky":
  • "When's the only time I don't want to die? When I'm fishing. ... The only way a poor person to fish every day is to take people with more money than you fishing. And so that's where the charter business was born." (74:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why he enlisted:
  • “If you're going to do something, go experience shit, right? Even if you're against something, you got to listen... or else you're just kind of an asshole.” – Jimmy (09:21)
• On American perceptions of the Middle East:
  • "I thought they all rode camels everywhere and everything was sand before I went." – Jimmy (37:47)
• On realities of war and trauma:
  • “The first time I saw [a chained special needs child], I started beating the dog out of the man of the house.” – Jimmy (45:19)
  • “...the Taliban. That's who's in control of Afghanistan right now, who we're still sending, I think it's $18 million a week to.” – Jimmy (46:45)
• On returning to civilian life:
  • "Within two years, I went from hanging out of a helicopter ... to living in dog feces, man." – Jimmy (63:13)
  • “The first time I won’t want to die is when I’m fishing.” – Jimmy (74:08)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:31: Jimmy describes Not Lucky's mission and shark tagging
• 06:51: The impulse to enlist after a psychedelic experience
• 10:25: Experiences with Army enlistment, assignment to infantry
• 16:03: First combat experience—explosively formed projectiles in Iraq
• 24:20: Accidental death of a child during a mission and lifelong impact
• 31:17: Problems with veteran mental health care and overmedication
• 46:30: Sexual abuse of children observed during raids in Afghanistan
• 47:02–51:13: Candid political critique on Iraq/Afghanistan Wars, Bush administration, and Halliburton connections
• 63:13: Lowest point: addiction, suicidal thoughts, and the role of his dog in saving him
• 69:59: Near-death experience during withdrawal and moment of personal epiphany
• 74:11: Realization that led to the founding of Not Lucky charter fishing

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Episode Tone

• Candid, unfiltered, raw: Both Jimmy and Kail are extremely open about tough subjects, from war crimes to suicide and addiction.
• Darkly humorous: Moments of laughter amidst trauma—Jimmy uses humor as a coping mechanism.
• Empathetic and reflective: Kail and Jimmy frequently check in about how their words might be perceived, fostering vulnerability and respect.
• Intensely personal, transformative, and ultimately hopeful: Jimmy recounts his fall and rise with sincerity, honesty, and optimism about the healing power of purpose.

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Next Episode Tease

• This episode is "Part 1"—Jimmy's journey continues in Part 2, where further details on recovery, mental health advocacy, and the growth of Not Lucky will be explored.

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Transcript

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[A]

Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on killlowy.com and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else. Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave Villain K, and you're listening to Barely Famous. All right, y', all, welcome to Barely Famous podcast. Today I'm sitting with someone new and different and you may not have even had any idea that this was a thing. I'm sitting with the owner of Not Lucky. This is a nonprof and also a ship where he. Shark tags. And welcome to Barely Famous.

[B]

Thank you, Jimmy.

[A]

Okay, so you own Not Lucky, which is a boat, and then you also own the nonprofit for Not Lucky. But is it all about sharks? Are both things all about sharks? The Not Lucky boat and the nonprofit?

[B]

No, no, no. That's just kind of like our headline thing, if you will. Like the attention grabber.

[A]

For sure. For sure. Okay, so can you tell us what you do exactly?

[B]

So fishing is the front door. So Not Lucky takes any veteran or active duty service member offshore fishing free of charge.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So they. They can bring immediate family.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Kids, wife, obviously, like that kind of thing. We love having the kids out.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then if they. And you don't. You don't have to have PTSD or anything to get on the boat. That's like a huge misconception.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You can just come fish. If you're in town, give us a call.

[A]

So you're in town, give them a call. Not Lucky. So you don't have to have, you know, a disability or something like that from being a veteran. You can just be a veteran or active duty service member.

[B]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[A]

Okay. I love that. And it's not just sharks. It's just deep sea fishing in general.

[B]

Yes. And then during the winter time, we have great white sharks come through the Southeast. And then we did. We started a program where we satellite tag them and name them after veterans that are no longer with us, either through combat or. Or suicide.

[A]

Wow. Yeah. And then what is the purpose of tagging them?

[B]

So it's the. The tags that we currently use. You stick it. Okay. With a tagging stick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you get the tag in there and then this thing stays on there for six months attached to the animal.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it records every turn it makes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Records how. How deep it goes, the depth it traveled in, and the water temperature. So there's a lot of unknowns when in the. In the great shark world.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And this is free access for anybody doing the research, whether it's, you know, a white shark, conserv, college kids, professors, whomever wants it. It's available at Gray's Fish Tag Research's website.

[A]

Had you always had a fashion fascination growing up with the ocean and fishing and all things shark?

[B]

No, no, really, I had a fascination with the ocean. I did love fishing. My mom's side of the family is super outdoorsy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like very rural country. Like very rural. And they all big hunters. They're huge into it, very good at it. All of them fished a little bit. I never got into the hunting thing. I was more into the sports and girls. Y. I mean, I, I enjoy hunting now, I guess a little bit. But, you know, fishing, I did always enjoy that with my grandfather.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the fishing actually started. When I first got to Ranger battalion down in Savannah, I was married briefly.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Awesome girl. Yeah, it was all me.

[A]

We love a self aware man.

[B]

Oh, I'm very, very self aware. But she was like, you know, back then, if we weren't training at a shoot house or at the range, we would go to basically go to work. You'd work out, do your paperwork and be home at noon.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I'd go on another run and have a couple brewskis. Yeah, well, wife would get home from work and it's. I wasn't hammered every day or anything, but she's like, hey man, like, this is like, you gotta find a hobby.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And I went to Bass pro and got a 30 rod in Rio and started sitting on the pier. And then it obviously escalated.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, clearly escalated. Okay. You, you, you're briefly married. You're. Have you always lived in Georgia?

[B]

No, I grew up in Winchester, Virginia.

[A]

Oh. So not too far from here.

[B]

So I joined the army in 2005 and then went to right outside of Seattle, Washington. Fort Lewis. That's what it's called.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We were there for like six months. Reflagged. Went to Germany.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

We were there. And then from there we went to Iraq for 15 months.

[A]

What year was that?

[B]

That was 2007.

[A]

So after 9 11.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So 911 was 2001. I joined in 05 and actually joined because I thought I was going to be all anti war. I. I dropped acid one night and we were eating some ecstasy and had a moment and was like somebody accidentally turned on the news and no kidding. It was like, obviously it was Iraq. It was 05.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that's the war still going on. Yeah. Hopping and pop really was just getting rolling.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We had just saw. We were from. I'm from a small town, Winchester, Virginia. We lost a really good dude. David Owens had a couple other really good guys get hurt. And you know, we didn't know much and let's be honest, was a bad thing. It's an ugly thing. And we were all talking the anti war stuff and then like everything kind of went silent and I had this inner voice. I Always say it was God. That was like, was it God or

[A]

was it the drugs?

[B]

I mean, with psychedelics sometimes I, I don't know, man. There's. And like that's, that's a whole other thing, right? But yeah, I mean, whichever it was. Yeah, I was like, hey, man, you guys don't know what you're talking about. The TV's full of lies. Which it was. It was like, you need to go see this for yourself.

[A]

So you enlist in the army.

[B]

The very next morning I showed up.

[A]

Shut the upper.

[B]

I swear to God. Yeah, I was still, I was still up. Like, I roll up in the recruiting station wearing nothing but cut off jeans and a straw hat, eyebrow ring in, no shoes on. They knew me because we were, we painted the place. They knew. Like, they knew. I mean, I had a reputation in town for being a little bit of a wild dude.

[A]

Yeah, you give off that vibe. In a good way. In a good way.

[B]

It's good now because it feels like

[A]

you have a lot of stories, you know, like, it feels like you've lived a lot of life.

[B]

I, I'm very, I'm very lucky. I'm very fortunate for. For 42, I've gotten. I'm on like my third life now.

[A]

No, I love that though, because I feel like I've never had anybody that's been to Iraq on this podcast.

[B]

Oh, really? I went there once in Afghanistan five times. That's how not lucky all started.

[A]

Well, that's what I was.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I actually, I know this wasn't really part we're going to talk about not lucky as much as we can, but I also am like, really fascinated by the fact that you literally enlisted the next day. Did, did you have to take during that time? Because, I don't know, I was a kid. Did you have to immediately take the ASVAB and do all the things? Or at that time, were they so desperate for soldiers that they like, basically bypass all of that?

[B]

Well, so they, they knew me in there once again. Right. So they were like, jimmy, what are you doing here? And I was like, I want to go to Iraq. And they're like, well, once again, like, I was the wild dude. I was the dude that people bought cocaine off of on the weekends.

[A]

What did you think you were gonna do over there? Stop the war?

[B]

No, I, I wanted to go. I, I wanted to go see it, see what it was about. And then I thought I was going to see something and then come back and be like a very well informed protester or some shit. Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which if you're going to do something, go experience shit, right? If you're going to be like, you got to. You got to experience stuff, man. And even if you're against something, you got to listen, like, you got to understand the other side, or else you're just kind of an asshole.

[A]

Jimmy, not everyone thinks like that.

[B]

No, they don't.

[A]

It's infuriating because we talked about this yesterday. Like, I literally said, because I got kind of political on a podcast episode. And I said, before you unfollow me and before you crucify me for what I'm saying, please go do the research on what I'm saying so you can make an informed decision. Because so often we're meeting people and we're talking to people, and we are the people who are not looking at the other side. And so in order to have a full, well rounded, like, educated guess and decision and opinion, you have to see both sides of everything. So that. Do people think you were nuts when you got there?

[B]

Oh. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, they. They at the recruiting station, they're just looking at me, and they're like. He looked at me. He was just like. He was like, dude, what are you. He's like, are you. Are you drunk? I was like, nah, bro. I was like, I ate some acid when he crushed up some meat pills and we're snorting them. And he was like, go home. When you sober up, come back. Come back and talk to me. So I went.

[A]

He didn't think you were coming back?

[B]

No, I sobered up and went back. And then I had taken the asvab. No, he. I took the asvab. Then when you went back. Yes. No, no, no, no. You schedule it and then you go to it after that. It's like, separate from the routine.

[A]

Yeah, I took it myself because I was going to join, but that's another story for another day. Okay, so. So you go the next day after dropping acid, doing all the things, they send you home, you schedule it, you come back.

[B]

Yeah. And then I did really, really well on the asvab. And they were like, hey, you can have any job you want in the army.

[A]

Shut the hell up.

[B]

Yeah. And they were like. They were like. I was like, yeah, okay, I want to fight. And they were like, what do you mean you want to fight? I was like, frontline, whatever that means. Yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. They were like infantry. I was like, sure, that sounds cool. And they were like, did you know

[A]

what you were getting yourself into?

[B]

I just I needed to go see this join.

[A]

I wanted to be like a load master. Like I wanted to be a paper pusher. I wasn't trying to be out front

[B]

line or like airborne man.

[A]

Really.

[B]

My first day in Iraq. Well, I didn't know that. I loved it. Right. Once again I was curious. And the way I looked at it, in order for me to understand it, I had to be in it.

[A]

But what if you died? Did you ever think going to go

[B]

to be alive at this time, man? From the time I was 11 till the time I was 39, I really didn't want to be here, man. Like this whole happy thing and like all of this like loving life is so new. Like, like three. Like three years old. April of 23. Yeah. When it all happened, when everything changed. It's been like up to that point, man. Like it was. It was a struggle.

[A]

Tissues. So you would have been okay going over there seeing what was going on in Iraq?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you'd be fine if you died? Like no tear? No. No sweat off your back?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. Because I. I didn't. Yeah. I didn't want to be alive, man. You know, I had a. Not as rough as some, but you know, I had a rough childhood a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I got the best mom in the world. Dude, stop.

[A]

I'll cry right now. Yes, I will cry right now.

[B]

I'm the biggest mom is boy you'll ever. You'll ever meet. Actually. Yeah. Going to see her after this.

[A]

Does she live around here for.

[B]

In Winchester, four hours away.

[A]

I'm so glad.

[B]

I'm excited. We. We talk every day at least text.

[A]

Oh good.

[B]

Super, super close.

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[A]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Okay, so you go, you pass the asvab, you can get any job you want. And you immediately are like, yeah, sure, sign me up for infantry.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, let's go. Right. So I was all pumped up to go to war, to basic. Was supposed to go to 82nd Airborne. They were due to deploy immediately. I'm all pumped up. Orders change last minute, Fort Lewis, their units just getting back. That means you have two years to wait before you can go to combat.

[A]

So you joined the military and didn't go right to Iraq.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Were you okay with that?

[B]

No, not at the time, but now I am. Because everything led to me sitting here right now. And I'm really happy with where I'm at in life. Yeah. So. And I'm one of those people. Right. If you would have changed anything, like, everything could have been different.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it was meant to be, too. I was supposed to be. I was supposed to go with that unit. I had the best commander, the best officer that you could ever imagine. He's the one that got me to go to Ranger Battalion. So that first deployment was 15 months. And then like, our first day there, there was a. Our third platoon element goes out on a patrol, right? Immediately they get hit with an efp, an explosively formed projectile which was provided to the Iraq's insurgency by the Iranians back then. Right.

[A]

What the does that mean?

[B]

So an elect. Explosively formed projectile is. Imagine a coffee can, okay. Filled with explosives. We're being. We're. We're making this down to just the most simple level.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then. Then imagine a piece of copper that is concave. Okay. It detonates. Copper turns into a molten copper slug that can penetrate. It'll go through concrete like that. Then it can still go through an engine block and then go through another thing of concrete.

[A]

And Americans had that or the.

[B]

No, yeah, the terrorist did.

[A]

And they blew it up on you guys.

[B]

Yeah. So they hit that. Our buddy's truck, and it took his legs off right in front of you. Our platoon was still on base, so they called us up as the quick reaction for us and was like, yo, you guys go to go secure this place. So we're like, you know, roger that. So we're on. You're. This is your first time out of the gate, right? You're going to get your buddies, whatever. All of a sudden, boom, we get hit. Thank God it wasn't nefp. It was just like. We called them teasers, right? They just like, ring your bell, give you a concussion, and that's it. So we.

[A]

So nonchalant. Yeah, yeah, just a concussion.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's why I ended up getting out of the army or getting med boarded out of the army. Was involuntarily. Was for brain damage.

[A]

You have brain damage?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like right now.

[B]

Pbis? Yeah, I got, like.

[A]

How long were you in the Army?

[B]

11 years.

[A]

And you were in Iraq for 15 months of this, and you're seeing all kinds of stuff

[B]

that happened, and then it got quiet. And then. Then we. Man. So that deployment was like, the hardest thing that's ever happened to me.

[A]

Was it everything that you thought it would be? Like, how you thought you were going to go out there and come back and be a peaceful process?

[B]

No, no. I changed very quickly our third or fourth week there. So, like, when you're conventional army, like, at least at my unit, like, I'm, you know, different people might do different things or whatever, but you're basically like a cop. So you're. You own an ao. You own an area of operations. They call it mahala or neighborhood. Right? So you. You own this mahala, and you're going around and you're talking to people like

[A]

other American soldiers or Iraqis, like, this

[B]

is their home, their neighborhood. You're like, hey, what can we do to make this better? Because you want them to tell you where bad guys are at.

[A]

Okay, When I think back, 2001, the Twin Towers, that happened when I was in fourth grade, 2001, okay, so fourth grade is what, nine, 10 years old? From that, I think that biases and prejudices and all of the things just through the roof, right? And so we're on this side, and we're thinking. Okay, let me not say we're thinking. We're told as children, at least where I'm. Where I grew up is like, pretty much anyone from the Middle east in that area is a bad person. Every single one of them. You're in the middle of all of this, and you're meeting people in Iraq, the Iraqis who are. They want help. Is that some of them want help, or did they not want Americans there doing this?

[B]

Yes, both.

[A]

Both.

[B]

Right. I mean, this is what I tell people, right? And. And it's a. It's a funny thing, right? Because just like any group of people, it's good and bad what people don't understand, especially when you get into places like Afghanistan, it is. So I don't know how to say this correct, like, politically correctly. I just. I try to be. I try to be polite, of course, but it is. It's very. It's Afghanistan very. It's very backwards. So, like, I've trained the guys there. The one. They don't know how old they are because there's no birth certificate. There's nothing like that. I met guys that were in their early 20s that had never been more than 10 kilometers or 6.2 miles from

[A]

their home, and they don't know how old they are.

[B]

Is it in everybody? But a lot of it, yeah.

[A]

So that was part of the political conversation we had yesterday, unrelated to this podcast. It's like, sometimes governments will keep people. I don't know how to say this in a better way, but keep people stupid.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

To. To. To be able to do what they want to do. It's keeping people stupid. And that sounds like a prime example of what I was describing yesterday in a conversation. And I don't think that people fully understand that that does happen. Like, I think that we. So many of p. So many Americans, I'll say, think that the government is supposed to help us, and it's for us and all the things, but. But it's not like I genuinely believe that. And I know that sounds a little bit kind of out of. It sounds a little bit crazy. But when you see things and you know things and you travel, you have a whole different perspective on where people are at. And that was one of the things I brought up yesterday. So do you think that at that time that the government in Iraq was intentionally keeping people stupid?

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's everywhere. I think that's everywhere since the beginning of time. And I'm. Yeah, I'm a great one to talk to about this because I am an open book, and you can not upset me.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

I promise.

[A]

Well, it's more. Any. Anything I ask is more out of pure curiosity, not trying to be ignorant. I want to know.

[B]

So, like, and I love this. Okay, this is. No, this. I'm, like, I'm super excited right now.

[A]

So you. You're in Iraq, and there are people there that are nice and trust you, and they want to tell you where the bad guys are, or are they scared to tell you where the bad guys are? Or both.

[B]

Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the thing is like. Like, that was one thing our commander was very adamant about. Like, we have to show these people we can protect them. And we did. I mean, I even went as far as, like, all female family. The father had been killed. Don't remember how or why. Natural and whatever. I don't remember. So in that culture, a lot of times women are not. Not looked upon as equals. So they had this, like, little roadside stand. And this family was very much taken advantage of a lot. So the man of the house, the grandfather was what they called me. He had, you know, like, down syndrome. Okay. Which me Noon, translates streets to crazy, but that's what they call it over there. So they were getting, like, robbed and all this stuff constantly. So we. We put a stop to that. Had my mom's church sending over feminine hygiene products, Beanie Baby, I mean, everything you could imagine. I was slipping them cash to stash away. I tried to marry the sister and adopt the little sister just to get them out of Iraq.

[A]

Are you kidding me?

[B]

Yeah, they wouldn't let us do it. My family was all on board with food.

[A]

Wouldn't let you.

[B]

You. Chain of command. Like, higher.

[A]

I mean, first shirt.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it was reasonable, I guess.

[A]

Well, that's not reasonable to me.

[B]

Think it was reasonable because I. I had a very good support plan. Yeah, but, I mean, man, young, young, young dudes in the army, man, we're pretty dumb. Like, we're pretty dumb.

[A]

You were trying to. I understand the intentionality behind it. I'll say that.

[B]

Right. With the support, they should have Looked into the support I had, and then they maybe would have changed their mind.

[A]

I guess I was just curious about, like, what, you know, local Iraqis and stuff, thought about what was going on or what they thought of Americans at that time. Because back home here in the United States, I would argue that probably a lot of people were under the impression that everybody in that area was not good. Of course it was. Yeah.

[B]

Propagandized in America, it's very much like everywhere. And what's, what's crazy about when you start getting into insurgencies and, and people that fight, like the, like, when I say terrorists, I'm talk legit bad dudes, like Al Qaeda, isis. The way they fight is so. It's beyond savage. It's immoral. So, like, for example, they'll. They'll go up to a dude and be like, hey, boss, this is an ied. You're going to go put that over there and then you're going to detonate it when we tell you to.

[A]

And then they die.

[B]

Yeah. If you don't, we're going to rape your family in front of you and then kill them.

[A]

Them and then kill you to their own people.

[B]

Or. Yeah. Or we're going to give you 100 bucks and you're going to go put that box over there. What are you going to do? I'm not doing 100 bill and putting the box over there.

[A]

Right. But they're doing that to their own people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. You're talking about, I mean, like, like I said, we're talking like legit terrorists. This isn't propaganda talk. These people will strap bombs to their own children. I've seen this. I physically seen the aftermath of it.

[A]

And what support did you have when you came home after that first 15 months?

[B]

So they, they give you a questionnaire when you get home asking you how you feel. And I, I act it like on that deployment, you know, I took, you know, took my first bad guy life and then. And then I accidentally killed a child, that deployment. And that was something that I've carried a long time. And this last trip to Ayahuasca in Peru a couple months ago, I finally, like, lifted it. And I mean, it still hurts. Like, I still think about it, but, like, I've forgiven myself for it, you know. But like, you got a kid on your hip one day and then two nights later you're raiding his house, not even trying to hurt anybody. You're literally just trying to get his dad to find out who's paying him to put in the IDs. That situation I just told you about is that exact situation. And all we were trying to do is capture and make him look like we think he, we know he's a bad guy and he wasn't in on this. This was our idea. And we were going to take him back and be like, yo, dude, like, who's the real bad guys? We were gonna hold him for a little while. Releasing. And the kid was asleep behind the door and couldn't get in the door, which is a security risk. And so I breached it with a shotgun. And I didn't know they usually sleep on the roof during the summer. And he was, he was asleep behind the door and like the rounds went into the base of his neck and his grandma was next to him. And, and you get home and you get a questionnaire, right? And it's like an online thing and it's like, I think they call it the Post Deployment Health Survey. And it's like, do you have trouble sleeping? Are you angry? Do you want to hurt people? But you know, if you answer those things honestly, you're going to get taken off from your job and then your career stops.

[A]

So you have to lie. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over 900 on average. They make it super simple. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick note with coverage options tailored to your choices. Plus you'll see which discounts you may qualify for, like the online quote discount or savings for paying in full. In fact, 99% of Progressives Auto customers earn at least one discount. See if you could save when you switch to Progressive. You'll feel good about making a savvy choice. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little extra cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary. Let's talk about hair growth. I don't know if you've noticed my hair is growing. And thanks to Nutrafol, I'm getting my hair back. Okay, Mother's Day is also coming up and it always sneaks up on you with the same question. What actually feels meaningful to you, to the woman in your life? Flowers are great, right? But something that I love for, for Mother's Day and all gift, gift giving purposes is something that actually is practical and makes sense for me, which is Neutrophil Neutral is one of those gifts truly thoughtful for any mom or woman in your life and help them support their hair growth from within. If you're a mom, you most likely spend a lot of time taking care of everybody else but yourself, and Neutrophil is a good reminder that you need to take care of yourself as well. So Nutrafol makes it easy to support your hair growth with one simple daily routine. Neutrful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. This Mother's Day Nutriful makes the perfect gift gift, offering targeted hair growth supplements for every stage of motherhood from postpartum to later in life, supporting stronger, visibly thicker hair through it all. So whether you're gifting it to yourself or to a loved one, take hair growth off the to do list for a limited time. Nutrafol is offering 25 off the fullest hair kit that supplements plus the hair serum duo and free self care gifts when you visit nutrafol.com that's nutrafol.com spelled n u t r a f o l.com early birds always rise to the occasion for summer vacation planning because early gets you closer to the action. So don't be late. Book your next vacation early on VRBO and save over $120. Rise and shine. Average savings 141 select homes only My name is Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a non verbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child, so she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis and we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

[B]

GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising

[A]

platform trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe. Not comparable, but similar to postpartum.

[B]

You have to Yes, I was just. I've Been reading a lot about postpartum recently.

[A]

It's really hard as a mom because you're scared to. And they're not the same. Right. But it's just the, the systemic problems that we're having, especially here, you know, in the United States, but everywhere else, too, is like, you have a baby, you fill out a questionnaire, but if you say that you're suicidal or you feel like you have the baby blues, or if you feel like you're going to get your children taken away or you'll have to jump through a million hoops, I don't know. That's the first thing that came to mind. Okay.

[B]

I just had a lady on my, on my podcast, she had cancer as a child amputee, and she went through it, and that's what got me reading it. And we talked about it on the show, and I was like, whoa, I need to learn more about this.

[A]

Yeah, so. So. So not similar, but. But similar.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely call it. Call it similar. Just, you know, it's just different mechanism of injury. Right. Your brain's still going through very similar stuff. Stuff. It's just a different mechanism, you know, and it's just. That's the thing, man. And we need to, we need to stop that, like, stigma. Like, you know, we, you know, we got gunfighters out there. I hope they change. I. I don't like the. How they do that, but I mean, even back then, going to a counselor, like, asking for counseling, dude, you can't, you couldn't. They would, they would stop you from seeing it like a gun now, now that you're on the other side of it. Right. I just sent two guys just recently retired.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Both of them, Two of them go. And this is very, very common. Two of them go to their first mental health appointment with the va. Okay. Our session. Okay. So you're talking intaking questions, basics. They leave with four prescriptions.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

All. All brain altering and like, as once again, back then, it wasn't even an option while you were in. So, yeah, to answer your question, there was nothing when you got home.

[A]

So you essentially. And that's. Yeah. And I would say that that's pretty common, especially for military and then especially during that time because nobody knows what you've seen. Right. Like, and I would imagine it probably wasn't very easy to come home and tell people what you saw over there and what you did over there and all of those things.

[B]

Nothing really hit me hard. The kid did, obviously.

[A]

Yeah, of course, of course.

[B]

It was like, whoa, you know, like. Like killing bad guys, like, that's never. Never once bothered me, like.

[A]

Yeah, but I'm sure you would.

[B]

I think it's awesome.

[A]

But like, your guy that you knew that got his legs blown off.

[B]

Yeah, like that stuff that messes you up, right? And then, like, you know, I've seen, like, my buddies killed. I've, you know, helped to get a litter off of a helicopter that had my buddy's dead body on it. And then we went into the mountains for 20 hours after that, chasing the 200 some dudes that were doing it and killing them. And just what you do, like that's on. That's on actually YouTube history channel did a special and that. My first Ranger mission.

[A]

You were a Ranger?

[B]

Yeah. Army Ranger? Yes.

[A]

Okay, so you come back from Iraq. How long until you go to your first tour in Afghanistan?

[B]

Well, so I re enlisted in Iraq. I thought I wanted to be a Green Beret, a Special Forces dude. My commander, Denny Young, the most gangster officer in the history of the military. Love that guy. He was like, hey, man, I'm going to support whatever you do. You're one of my top dudes. Like, like, why do you want to go this route? And I was like, you know, when things went down with that kid, there was like an investigation, but, like, there was another commander who wasn't a combat guy from another unit that was kind of being a dick and was like, trying to really, like, basically put me away.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And. And I did nothing wrong. Everything was 100 followed correctly. Like. And anybody that knows me for two seconds would know I would never gonna hurt a child.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, not me, man. Anyway, put it back. Was like, okay. Like, I love this gun fighting thing. Like, that first day when our convoy got hit by an ied, it was the most calm I'd ever felt. And I was like, I want to do this the rest of my life. I was like, this gun fighting is awesome. I want more of it. I have a very addictive personality. And so he was like, dude, YSF not what I just told you. I was like, dude, I want a gunfight. I want to, you know, take the fight of the enemy. He was like, dude, they do a little of that, but they're like, they train forces and they go out with force, like local forces, like Afghans or Iraqis. I was like, yeah, no, I'm not cool with that. He was like, you need to go to Ranger Battalion. And I was like, okay. I was like, what do you do there? He said, every single night you go to the worst of the worst in the country. And you capture and kill them or capture or kill them. And I was like, I'm in, dude.

[A]

You'll do it?

[B]

Yeah. He said, and then from there, go to Delta Force selection, which I didn't. Didn't do well at. That's where they found. That's where I found out. After that is when the med board process started for brain damage. But after. So after that deployment, I went to Ranger selection, which was called RIP back then.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was 30 days.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's just a suck fest. It's not. It's not what I would call hard. You just can't quit, right? So, like, you know, the first day you get there, and it's like, you know, it's Georgia. It's Fort Benning, Georgia. So you're on this, like, hot pavement, and they make you lift your duffel bag over your head, and there's like, 100 some of you in formation, and then they're like, open ranks, and they do what's called smoking you. Right. Make you do all these workouts, right, Just to. Just to exhaust you. And they're like, we'll stop when three people quit.

[A]

Did three people quit?

[B]

Oh, yeah, eventually. It took a few hours. You know, people were passing out and puking and. Yeah, and that was day. That was day zero. They call that day zero. And then, like, you know, you'll be like, hey, go get a uniform on. You're going to the range. And then they'll smoke you, make you sweat, and then go over to the sand pit and tell you to make sugar cookies, which means you throw sand up in the air to get it all over you.

[A]

So is this supposed to prepare you for.

[B]

They just want to make sure they're sending the toughest of the tough. And then you get trained up at the unit. Now they do it a little differently. They do more skill stuff there now, too.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

But like, our day, it was just. They want. They want. They don't want anybody to quit, right? There's a saying in the special operations community, right? When Delta. When SEAL Team 6 is in trouble, they call Rangers, okay? When Delta Force is in trouble, they call Rangers.

[A]

So you're.

[B]

Rangers are in trouble.

[A]

What you're doing is you are the one.

[B]

Rangers are just a can of hate ready to be unleashed somewhere.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Like, just imagine a bunch of dudes where all you do overseas, you're all in your 20s. You're all, you know, testosterone through the roof. And, you know, we were. We were night walkers, right? So Meaning we slept during the day because you operate at night, so you sleep during the day. You wake up, you go see if there's a mission, if there's a mission, you get the plan together. This, that and the other. Then you go what's called the ready room, which is just like the most gangster ass locker room you could ever imagine. It's like where your kids that. It's all wooden cubbies. It's where your kits at and your guns. In the middle, there's a table where you build explosive charges for the missions. Oh, yeah, you get all your stuff on, there's music playing. You go out, there's a CH47, you know, the Chinook with the twin rotors sitting there. Chaplains out there, says a prayer about bringing death to our enemies. You get on the helicopter and you go.

[A]

It's a real life movie.

[B]

Oh yeah, Every night. And then you get back and you know, you go to the guy's house and, you know, hopefully you capture them so you can get intel and you get, you know, the SIM cards and all the stuff we're looking for. And you know, if they want to throw down, they leave in body bags. And then you go back and you work out and you call home, say hi, and you go to sleep and you wake up, you do it again the next night.

[A]

Are we still talking about Iraq or are we talking about Afghanistan?

[B]

Well, now, now we're now from Ranger, Ranger selection. I go to my unit and like, within two months, we're in Afghanistan. I was home less than a year.

[A]

Year. Okay.

[B]

And I went from Iraq to Afghanistan in less than a year. So I went, came home, went on leave, went to Ranger selection, went to my unit, was there like two months and then deployed again.

[A]

And you wanted to deploy again?

[B]

Oh, God, yes. I, I would have lived over there if they let me. There's absolutely nothing.

[A]

What was your, what was your thoughts? What did you think about people in Iraq and Afghanistan before you went and what did you think, think after you went?

[B]

I thought they all rode camels everywhere and everything was sand before I went right once, once over there. I absolutely despise the group that makes it bad and makes the good people's lives hell. And I feel absolutely terrible for the good people. It very quickly turned into me, me for, for me, like. And I'm a patriot. I, I am. I don't like where our country's at now. I am not a political guy. I'm not an extreme guy on either side of the aisle. I advocate for vets. Politically and stuff. Right. But like very middle of the road, dude. But very quickly it stopped becoming about like the big picture for me. Like once you see like over there with like a special needs kid, they chain them to a wall, Right? Not everybody, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like normal because the first time I saw it, I started beating the dog out of the man of the house. Right, right. So we're searching this house in Iraq. This is like week three.

[A]

But this is normal there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because I about. I was. I. I wanted to kill this dude. Right. So like we're going to.

[A]

I wasn't prepared for any of this. What the is going on.

[B]

Yeah. And this is, this is why dudes come back so messed up.

[A]

Well, I didn't understand.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no, I know you don't. I mean, I don't think anybody does because people don't talk. We don't talk about it.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

It's not talked about.

[A]

I don't think it's unheard of to have thought previously that like, it's a desert there. There's no, like, people are basically building houses out of huts in the sand. Like, that's what I would say a majority of Americans probably thought that. I really. I. And I know that's so up. So you go over there and you realize very quickly that's not what it is. And you have essentially immediate empathy for the, for the good people. Right.

[B]

Yeah. I've always been and looked at them

[A]

as humans, cuz I think so often like American, white American specifically. And I don't mean to get political, but it's just weighing heavy on me these days. White Americans just, I think look at black and brown people as less than

[B]

I. I look at that. So my two of my sisters, actually, one of which I'm super, super close with, her husband's black. So you know, my baby nephews, they're all, you know, beautiful mixed babies and whatnot. I grew up in a rural area, so. And then I was introduced. I. I did a lot of research on racism. 2009 into 2010, I almost death in Jacksonville for being white. Like, no, like, they only, like, I. I had to get my face put back together. Fractured both jaws. All my teeth were down in my gums feet. Facebook was crushed. It's been a wild ride, man.

[A]

I don't. Where do I go from here? I don't.

[B]

I don't know where.

[A]

So wait, we need to go back to that at some point though. Okay. So, so do, do you feel no, no, don't apologize. Do you feel like you had implicit bias before you went over there? Do you feel like you had internal racism? Do you feel like there was like.

[B]

No, I, I didn't. I wouldn. Racism I'm sure I had. Not from you talking about from getting beaten.

[A]

No, no, no, no. Just like how you grew up in rural Virginia.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no. We were raised very. And I, I call it not the modern day conservative Christian definition. The, the back in the day rural cons, like where everybody like you treat everybody like God's children. You love everybody no matter what. You help everybody no matter what. My whole family's always lived like that.

[A]

Okay, so you didn't have like precon there. You saw that there was good and there was bad.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

This one's for all my TV lovers. My entertainment from DirecTV gets you 60 plus channels and Disney Plus, Hulu and HBO Max all in one pack. But here's the thing. With so much great TV in my entertainment, you're going to want to talk about everything you've been watching. Just remember that your friends might not be as well watched as you. Don't be a spoiler and encourage them to get my entertainment for just 34.99amonth. Go to directv.com genre packs and sign up today. New customers only. Service renews month unless canceled. Credit card required conditions apply to app HBO Max Basic with ads begins after DirecTV five day trial.

[B]

To me, it was very easy to see, but I also completely understand why there's guys, you know, service members, especially ground pounders, like, you know, infantry guys, gunfighters that, you know, have a hatred for a whole, the whole group of people. I can understand that. It's a, it's a hard thing, man. You know, you're getting brain damage and you're, you're watching your buddies die and you're getting shot at and you're getting dopamine dumps and all this. And it's all associated with this one group of people in your eyes, right? And it's, it's sometimes hard when you're in those moments. So draw back and look at the big picture. Look at where we are. Look at where our country is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Look how everybody is just with talking about stuff. Excuse me, yelling at each other about stuff. Now take that and put it like war. Like it's kind of the same thing, just way more intense and more.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah. But, so you go over there and you see a child chained to a wall.

[B]

Yeah. So, well, this one, this. This first one wasn't chained. He was locked in. In a room. So we're doing what's called a courtesy search. You're just like, hey, can we make sure you only have your one AK and you're not having a bunch of money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because they, if they, they have to agree to it, and then if they're being some forced to hide something against their will, they find it, it's not their fault. Yada, yada, yada. I'm going around with the man of the house and I'm like, I come up on this door. This door is different than all the other doors. It's heavy metal door. It has like a trap door at the bottom and it's got a padlock. And I'm like, that's weird. Week three, dude. I didn't. I didn't know what I was looking. I was like, that's odd. Whatever. It's a storage room, right? That's something valuable in there. I don't know. I was like, can you get the key, please? My interpreter's like, get the key. And the guy's like, no. I was like, okay, that's a cool story. Get the key. And he's like, no. And I'm like, all right, somebody bring me a pair of bolt cutters. You know, I get on the radio, bring a pair of. Everyone upstairs. This is. And I'm not like, I Like, this

[A]

is how you're laughing at, like the

[B]

belief of it all. Yeah. I've always been like this trauma response, right? Since I was a child. Anyway, so I clipped this freaking lock, I. I push open this door, and the most wretched smell you can ever imagine comes out in this teenager, maybe early teen, mid teenager, you know, like cloth loin, diaper thing comes running out at me screaming like a freaking banshee, bro. We're on the second floor, just swan dives out the window.

[A]

What? Yeah. Did he die?

[B]

No. So I'm on the radio. I'm thinking, like, it's a squirter, meaning like a bad guy running away. Once again, this is like. I don't know what's. You're learning. You're learning like you. I have guys there that were training me and stuff. But like, you can't go over everything. You can't go over fine in a. A human locked in a. A room with a bunch of urine and feces and eating out of dog bowls.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, so that my guys. I thought it was A squirter, like. So I'm like, yo, there's a squirter, like he's running east. He just jumped out the window. My guys go and get him. My buddy comes over the radio, and this was 2007 in a war zone, so everybody chill out. But. But he was like, jimmy. And you know, he detained this guy and he's like, jimmy, Jimmy. He's. He's. And I'm like, what? Wait, what did you just say? He's like, dude, no bro.

[A]

Special needs.

[B]

He said downs, bro. Like, he is not. He. This kid. Is this kid special needs. Yeah, he did, yeah. He never used those exact words. And I'm like, I. I'm next to the man of the house and I just. I freak out. I just start beating the out of this guy, right? So I'm working this dude over. Like, like, pull me off of him because, like, I probably wasn't going to stop until he stopped moving or I couldn't move anymore. My interpreter's like, jimbo. He was like, this is normal. And I look at him, I'm like, what the did you just say to me?

[A]

That's normal. Did you see more?

[B]

He's like, it's not okay. Yes. In Afghanistan it was worse. That's where you'd see him chained up, like in doghouses. Dude. They would take Afghan terrorists. We would raid a house, right? Or a compound. Not a house, compound. Right. This one's heavy. All right, so get ready. You rate a compound and you'll have like, let's say one bad guy, three, four bodyguards and whatever they take around with them. What's called a chai boy, which is a pre adolescent, early adolescent teen to do what they will with. That's why I had no problem going back over and over.

[A]

They did what with him?

[B]

Assaulted him sexually.

[A]

What? What?

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

I thought you meant like do their dirty jobs.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, man. Sexual assault is so common.

[A]

Where did the kid come from?

[B]

Wherever.

[A]

They just kidnap them? Basically, yeah.

[B]

They do what they want, man. It's the Taliban. That's who's in control of Afghanistan right now, who we're still sending. I think it's 18 million a week too.

[A]

We are sending 18 million a week to Afghanistan.

[B]

Oh, we were sending 80 some million a week for a hot minute. That's a act. 100%, yes, ma'. Am.

[A]

Were Iraq and Afghanistan, was that the same war that we were fighting? Like.

[B]

Well, they called. Well, yes and no, cuz I feel we should not have been in Iraq.

[A]

We should not have been in Iraq.

[B]

Oh no. God.

[A]

Why, why were we in Iraq?

[B]

We were, they were allegedly weapons of mass destruction. Right.

[A]

Because.

[B]

Yep. Because he said Al Qaeda was hiding there. Which is cuz.

[A]

Said Al Qaeda was hiding.

[B]

Bush.

[A]

George Bush. Yeah.

[B]

They could have stopped 911. Bush had a report saying, saying bin Laden is going to attack the United States of America and he ignored it. Yeah. And if I say anything like this, you can be checked like it's true. I'll tell you if something's not, if I know it's not true.

[A]

So they knew it was happening and didn't stop it. Why?

[B]

Right. Well, what they say is that, well, they weren't cross talking and the agencies just simply made mistake because the FBI was tracking these dudes, the hijackers that were training to learn to fly planes but didn't care about learning or landing them. Yeah. So.

[A]

So we should not have been in Iraq. So it basically became one big war with both countries. But we really weren't, we shouldn't have been at war with Iraq.

[B]

They wanted to go in Iraq because of the landscape of the battlefield. Okay, so the Bushes had beef with Saddam from his dad's era. Okay.

[A]

I knew that.

[B]

The Bushes are also very tight with the bin Laden family. That may be. Laden family. Yes.

[A]

What, what do you mean tight with them before they killed Osama bin Laden.

[B]

Yeah. Because they're, it's all oil.

[A]

They were friends.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They're friendly.

[B]

Yeah. And then the Saudi ambassador for the United States when 911 went down, his nickname was Little Bush. His wife was, they actually got her sending money to one of the hijackers. But it was considered a donation, so it's okay. That's fact.

[A]

So how did it turn from being friendly to then now we want to kill Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein?

[B]

Well, my opinion, my opinion is, my opinion is, is that Bush had the intel clear. Well, we know he had the intel to stop it. I believe that, that they, I, I 100% believe the Bush administration allowed 911 to happen. Because then you have Cheney, who is, was the big wig at Halberton. He had stepped down for his vice presidency, but he also held a ton of stock. Right. And he also, he also got basically kickbacks. So Halliburton, if you look at Iraq, it's super flat. There's cities, there's rural terrain. Right. So what does that mean? You can app deploy every piece of the army there. Like Afghanistan, you can't take tanks and around because there's mountains and stuff, right? You can only deploy so many units there. Iraq, Iraq though, Iraq, you can deploy everyone. So Halberton and kbr, sister companies, they got a no bid contract for everything in both wars,

[A]

okay?

[B]

You're talking trillions, which if you go back to it, Israel also gave us the weapons of mass destruction intel intelligence. Just like this happened. The current state we're in and all 18 of our intelligence agencies said there was no weapons of mass destruction, just like they said there was no uranium. Now it's literally, it's literally the exact same thing that happened now. Like I'm not for how this went down. Iran, that regime that we, that just fell. I will be very. Let's, let's be clear because you got to look at all sides. Not good. They are not, not good people.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

That being said, how it's been gone about is, is less a lot to be desired. Like, you know. Yeah, yeah. So, but I mean you're, that's just, I say it's just how the world works. I thought everybody knew this and I think everybody, like I thought everything that I'm talking about, I used to think this was all common knowledge.

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Because like in my world this is like absolutely what it is.

[A]

No, but that's the propaganda in America is that I would argue that most Americans do not know.

[B]

We haven't had a president worth a since jfk and look what happened to him. And you know, when he got killed he wanted to make apac, which is the Israeli lobbyist sign, which I have no issue with. Right. You should have a lobbyist.

[A]

Maybe you should be a lobbyist.

[B]

People that influence lawmakers, right? So like I go and advocate. Like I was at the state capital of Georgia a few weeks ago. There's lobbyists there. I meet with lobbyists, they get relationships and whatnot with law lawmakers and then like introduce things and talk and you try to persuade them to do things.

[A]

Basically what I want to do in Arkansas right now. Okay, so am I a lobbyist? No. Okay, well, can I be? Maybe not. Not this year. We have so much going on.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Finding the one can feel impossible. And in today's world, it's even hard. Harder. False profiles, inaccurate pictures, incompatibilities, ghosting on dates. Is this sounding familiar? But if you're ready to make the move to a new place, it doesn't have to feel like dating. All it takes is a simple search on apartments.com to find your perfect match. Whether you're looking for a three bedroom condo downtown, a two bedroom duplex in a quiet neighborhood, a cozy studio in a walkable city, or even a single family home in a culdesac. You can find a place that checks all the right boxes. So whichever stage of life you're in, settle down in your perfect home by using apartments.com. no more swiping or awkward first dates. Make it easier to get a place that gets you visit apartment. Not even a year between Iraq and your first tour in Afghanistan, you come home. How long do you come home? You said you did five tours in Afghanistan. Yes, five. How long long in between each time do you.

[B]

Six, seven months? About.

[A]

So you're not even home for a year in between each.

[B]

No. In Ranger regiment you sign, you sign a waiver wavering your dwell time. So they made rules because early in the war and PTSD and stuff, when they were deploying guys too much and for too long they have dwell time. So if you go like, I think the conventional army is like a six to nine months deployment these days. It used to be 12 to 15. And then you're, you're allowed like, you're guaranteed two or three years at one home. So you sign a piece of paper going into Ranger battalion saying, I wanted to basically you're like, deploy me as much as humanly possible.

[A]

Okay, Just.

[B]

I mean, it's awesome though. Like, it's the best feeling you could ever imagine. Imagine. You're so right. Like, like, look, look at the. Look at what. And this is very. This is Jimmy's opinion here, but look at like the, the essence of what a man is supposed to be, right? Provide and protect, right? Especially in today's society, the, the provide thing saying. Well, you know, women are really killing it now. Like in Fortune 500 companies, I think women are up to like 12 and a half percent higher salary than, than their male counterparts.

[A]

Good. It's about time.

[B]

Yeah, but do you see what I'm saying? So, so that, that's kind of thing. So really like a, a manly thing. Like every man wants to feel. I think most men want to feel masculine, right? So protect, right? Every man wants to protect. Like you see guys on Facebook, Everybody ever mess with my family? You know, that's the thing. You protector, right? Well, well, when you're over there and man, just like picture this, right? So there's a thing called, we call it a little bird, right? It looks like a mosquito. And it's like things you always see with guys. Like, you ever see the movies with guys legs hanging out the side of the helicopters and all that.

[A]

Okay, that's real.

[B]

Yeah. So you're in Afghanistan like, you know, I was 20, 26 or something. Or 28, whatever. I was 30, I don't remember. I was at this time, late 20s, early 30s. And you go, and this thing's on and you, you get your mission brief, you're praying with the chaplain. You clip in, your feet are on these running back boards. This thing takes off and starts going, whatever. It flies 140 miles an hour or something ridiculous. And they fly super, super fast and pitch black. You got your night vision down, so everything's green. No depth perception. You're following land features in case they try to blind shoot an RPG at you. You climb a mountain, you feel the G's pressing down from that. You peak the mountain, you go weightless, shoot back down, they give you.

[A]

So you basically had a death wish.

[B]

Oh, no. Yeah. At that time, probably. Yeah, yeah. And then you.

[A]

Because you could have died at any moment.

[B]

Yeah. You were, you were hooked in, you were strapped in, you weren't gonna fall out. Like you're, you're, you're safe. And then like. But that's how you get there, right? So like they're like, give you like a two minute call, right? And you're like telling your guys because you're. I was a team leader. I was like, yo, two minutes. You know, you unplug from the comms and like you have an IR laser and you're lazing the point of entry. This thing touches down and you un clip as it's really close to the ground. And as soon as that back. The back portion of the landing gear touches, jump out, you run. And then somebody slaps a charge on the door, they blow the door open and you go in and like that.

[A]

Are you okay?

[B]

Yeah, I wasn't for a long time, but I wasn't okay before that. Right. Which is a whole another thing. Right. We, we like there. We all want to raise more awareness about mental. I want to raise mental health in general. Like, I think we know the veteran population suffers. I don't think people know to the extent.

[A]

They don't.

[B]

So less than 5% of people ever deployed actually saw combat.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's actually closer to 1%, but I always keep it under 5 just to. For.

[A]

Okay. So, so that there's kind of a misrepresentation.

[B]

And listen, this is. I was not 70, but like, this is the way I, this is the, this is the way I believe it happens. Okay. I believe that back home everybody thinks when you deploy, everybody fights.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Common Misconception. Understandable. If you are a young dude especially, and you're sitting at a bar and are telling you and pumping you up and thanking you for fighting and doing this, you're probably not going to tell them any different, especially if they're buying you beers. I would. A lot of people would, but some people won't. Right. How do you disprove it? And like, you can't. Like, it's, it's so wrong to question a veteran.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Like, I'm not aggressive about it, but if I see somebody being full of, like, I, I bring. I just had a full former full bird colonel get mad at me because he was probably stopping like, throwing all this stuff and people were listening to him because he's like, I'm a full bird colonel with 36 years.

[A]

And you're like. But you've never seen.

[B]

He never did anything in like, like duty positions in Germany. Like, homeboy was in for 36 years and somehow set the whole war out. Like, you got to try to miss the war for that. Like, that, that, that, that takes effort.

[A]

No, for sure.

[B]

No for sure.

[A]

You're basically like lying about everything.

[B]

But so you have that class of veterans, right? Like, and then with the whole mental, like, with that are gonna. It's just like everybody. It's just like we're talking about Muslims and stuff earlier, right?

[A]

Yeah, so.

[B]

And the veterans are the same way. We're not all good. I'm not here, like, definitely not ever going to say that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We need to police our own more. We need to police our own. Like, you need to tell a dude he's messed up. Like, I mean, there's, there's stories that, like, there's been movies made about stuff that's happened over there that we all know is false. I mean, it's insane. Like, and once again, it's like well known in our community. But it's just all. It's like, it's ego, right? You know, people, people want to feed that, that their own ego.

[A]

Yeah, well, drama also sells. Like, you get attention for drama and you make up stories or you embellish and exaggerate. Like, you're gonna get more attention, more drama, more all the things.

[B]

So addiction, like anything else, man, that dopamine. Dopamine's dopamine. Right.

[A]

So. But from the time you first go to Iraq and your last tour in Afghanistan, was that the full 11 years, then just about the last, like two

[B]

years was spent getting out. So all of those deployments happened within seven years of Each other.

[A]

So back to back to back to back.

[B]

I actually missed one from when I got beat up. I should have deployed eight times. Yeah, but you.

[A]

You missed one.

[B]

But. Or seven times. Excuse me? But yeah, I had to pull. I missed one.

[A]

Okay. And then. So the last two years, you're getting out of the military and, you know you have brain damage at this point. Mh. What was your reaction to finding that out?

[B]

So when I first started, found out I was, you know, possibly getting. They call it med boarding, I was trying to be hopeful. I was already on a little bit of a downward spiral. Started drinking heavier, and then once they told me that it was done, it

[A]

was like, you know, it was like the processing of. Of getting out was done.

[B]

No, that, like, hey, you're definitely getting out because.

[A]

Oh, they told you you were getting out. You didn't want to get out?

[B]

No, no, no, no, I didn't want. Hell no, man. Hell no, man. You can't.

[A]

So. So feeling fine to me. So, like, what. Why. Why did you have to get out?

[B]

Well, because there's, like, physical damage to my brain, right. So like, more concussions. Like, you know, you get your bell rung, it could be lights out, potentially. So, you know, I might. Basically, it's like they beat up a rental car and they turned it in is essentially what happened. That's. That's okay. It's part of the machine. I under. I understand that. Yeah. It's just. It's how it has to work. Sadly. They could do better taking care of us after they turn us in.

[A]

Right. They use you and abuse you and then.

[B]

And then as bad as. That's where they dropped the ball. But no, I. I didn't want to get out, man. You know, were there resources for you

[A]

after the fact, besides the VA?

[B]

No. No. And the VA really lacks mental health.

[A]

You just served 11 years for the military. You're killing the bad guys you have. Is it wrong for me to assume you have ptsd?

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

Just want to make sure.

[B]

Yeah. Now you're good.

[A]

Someone called me a lunatic, and I'm. That's a sensitive subject. So I don't want to assume you have PTSD and you don't. So you have PTSD. You've been using, abused for 11 years. You are forced out of the military.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's no resources for you. So now what? So what do you do? Can you get another job because you have severe. Some PTSD and brain damage. Can you get another job anywhere?

[B]

Well, on my way out, you know, I got. I ended up physically dependent on alcohol. Alcohol.

[A]

Okay, so now. And so now you have an addiction?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it was bad.

[A]

And what's up about that piece of it with the military? Is that like. Because there's not really laws outside of like DUIs, there's nothing anyone can do about you drinking?

[B]

No, no. And you know, and like, and as far as like treatment and stuff goes, I was talking to a mother on the way up here whose son died of an overdose because he was on a waiting list to get into a VA treatment facility.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. This is the battle we're. This is the battle we're fighting, man.

[A]

We talked about this yesterday, unrelated to you. The withdraws of alcohol can kill you.

[B]

Yeah, it almost killed me. I had a near death experience. Like whole thing left my body the whole nine yards.

[A]

Because I think that people think, oh well, the withdraws of heroin will kill you. Or the withdraws of cocaine will kill you. Or the withdraws of meth will kill you. No, it won't. The withdraws of alcohol will kill you.

[B]

With, with heroin, opioids and alcohol are the only two that the not having the substance will kill you. The other stuff that can kill you are symptoms caused by not having it.

[A]

If that will feel like it's death, like, it'll feel like even if you

[B]

die, it's not from not having the substance. Right. So like, like cocaine, you could die from heart attack, but that's not from not having the cocaine. It's from to the symptoms caused by it. Does that make sense?

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

Where alcohol and opioids, it is a physical dependence. You have to have it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or your, your body starts. It'll shut down.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I mean, I got to a point where, I mean, my house was covered in dog feces. I've woken up with like, covered in dog.

[A]

That's the mental state you were in, was like, you're not taking care of what you need to take care of.

[B]

You're not. The grass in my house was hip high. You couldn't see the front of my house because the tree growth. There were six trees in front of the house. Yeah, man. The dog mess everywhere. You couldn't see my sink because of trash. Pizza boxes everywhere.

[A]

Like you were going through it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And who's helping you?

[B]

I mean, my mom was trying. Right. But what do you do to somebody that doesn't want help? What do you do? I'll tell you. You can't do anything, man. You got to hit that Rock bottom.

[A]

How did you get out of it?

[B]

So, you know, one night I. I was like, you know, this is it, man. Like, I'm behind on everything. Like, you know, I was spending all my money. Like, everything's gone. Marriage is over. This, that, and the other. I. I'm not a gunfighter anymore. I'm nobody. I'm just another. Like, I'm another fat drunk at the bar. Hey, no shortage of those, you know. So you go from being this. This apex predator, top of the food chain. The most elite infantry unit in the entire world, in the history of the world, is the Army. Range dangers. And, you know, within two years, I went from hanging out of a helicopter like I talked about, to living. Living in dog feces, man. Yeah. I hated myself. And so one night, you know, I got a bottle of. It's called Middleton. There was a place that did. It was like, 200 bucks a bottle back then. There's a place because your military would give it to you for, like, 160. And I bought that over. Literally, over drew through my. My cat. You know how you can do it with cash and it'll do? Yeah. So I. I did that from the bar I was drinking in. Went next door to the liquor store, got it. Drove to my house, wrote a note to my mom, and, you know, picked up my. My. I had a Springfield XD45. And I still have it. And I picked it up and, like, I put it in my mouth and I pulled the slack out of the truck Trigger. And I had a dog then named Skiff. We lost him to cancer a year or two here, Two years ago here. And he did the whole, like, pet me thing on my knee, you know, pawn and pet and. And I pulled the gun out of my mouth, crying. He crawled into my lap and he put his head on my chest, and I leaned back in the recliner, and I passed out.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, man, that was a wild night. And so I woke up the next morning, did what I always did. Poured it, poured another, poured a drink. I always had a yeti cup. And I filled that thing up with ice and put a bunch of whiskey in it and started drinking.

[A]

And that was normal for you?

[B]

Oh, that was every day.

[A]

Did you remember what you did the night before?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I was like. I was. It scared me, so I was like.

[A]

To do something. Do you think that was what kind of broke you?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, the first. You know, it was like I. You know, I kept thinking about my mom. Like, she fought tooth and nail for me when I Was a kid, man. You know, we went through a lot with my. My dad and, like, that woman, man. Like. Like, she's my everything. And so I'd, like, think about her, and then I'd be like, man, what am I doing? And I'm like, how do you even come back from this? And I'm like, well, the first thing is this booze has got to go. Took me four or five weeks. And the girl I was dating at the time, she's awesome. Awesome girl, man. I went to her apartment and drop to dry out. I refused to go to a hospital. They were trying to get me to go to a hospital.

[A]

So you just cold turkey were like, I can't do this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you went over to her house and did people. Were people. Like, what the. Or did you have immediate support, like, the girl that you were dating, your mom?

[B]

I did. Not many people knew what was going on. I told a couple of my neighbors, my girl, like, my mom, like, that was it. My neighbors went and cleaned up my yard and my house. Yeah. And I mean, you got to keep in mind, like, these people would see me pass out in my yard. They'd have to call ambulances for me. And, like, that was. That happened a few times. But, yeah, you know, I'm drying out on this couch. And, you know, you don't really have much control over things going on with your body. And I had my. I think I had a BlackBerry back then. I don't remember. Whatever phone I had, I had, like, Pandora or whatever on whatever I was listening to back then. And obviously, you're shaking violently. You're dry even. You're just the most pain you could freaking imagine. I've been through a lot of pain, and that hurt the most. And anyway, I'm, like, laying there going through it, and all of a sudden, man, I got. I got tightness in my chest, sharp pain, and I was like, oh, this ain't good. Left arm went numb. And I'm like, oh, it's a heart attack. Yeah. So I'm like, no big deal. Control your breathing. Call 91 1. You're fine. Like, I don't. I. I don't freak out in bad situations.

[A]

Like, how could you after everything you

[B]

been through, everything can. Everything goes to. And I'm like. I'm like, hey, man, it's all good, dude. Like, we're gravy. So I'm, like, sitting there, I'm like, this is no big deal. Like, you're. You're pretty healthy dudes. Like, you're gonna Be fine, like. And I went to like. But you're, you're shaking like you're not like, you're like. So I try to pick it up. I. I drop the phone. It takes a weird bounce under the couch. I can't stand up because I'm like half season. I roll off the couch, can't extend my arms.

[A]

Call 91 1. Who's calling?

[B]

Right? So I'm, I'm like laying there and I'm like, I'm in so much pain. So I finally, I'm like, screw it, man. I la back and there was just a tiny bit of relief. Like, I mean it was still the worst thing ever, but it was a little bit of relief. And I rolled over on my left side and I was like, man, that felt even better. But I mean, I was still. I was like, I'm dying. I just was like, okay, this is it. Like I'm supposed to die. And I looked, I happened to look straight ahead. Like I'm laying on my side and at my girlfriend's bottom shelf is where she kept her liquor. And I'm laying there and I was like, I had a split second thought, I was like, if I can get to that and get a sip of it in me and it might help. Yeah. And then I was like, nah, that I'd rather die. So I laid here looking at it and I remember being in an incredible amount of pain, but finding the humor in everything I've been through in my life.

[A]

And this is what takes you out.

[B]

This was going to kill me. I mean, dude, I've done, I've overdosed like on heroin. Like.

[A]

You've done heroin?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

There's.

[B]

Hasn't. Really isn't much I ain't done, man. I've. Yeah, dude, I've tried everything, man. Yeah.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Before. Yeah, man, I was like a cutter when I was a kid. Like before that was even was a thing like self mutilation. Yeah, man. Like when I was a young teenager and I was wild, but you were

[A]

like, this, this me not drinking anymore is what's going to kill me.

[B]

Yeah, I thought it was funny. I thought it was like I found the humor in it and then all the pain went away. And then I felt the most blissful feeling you could ever imagine. Imagine. And then like the room got like. You know, like when you look in a sky and like there's like these like, I call them wispy clouds. Like you can see directly through them. Yeah, but it's thicker than fog. It's like see through fog. Okay, I'm seeing that. And I'm like, this bliss. Just. I can't even describe it. And I'm like, this is awesome. I was like, this is death. This is great. And then I hear this voice say, this isn't the hardest thing I'm going to ask you to do. And I'm not done with you yet. And I back in my body, seized out, passed out, woke up, girlfriend there. And then.

[A]

Did you ever get to the hospital?

[B]

No.

[A]

Was. So do you know if you had a heart attack?

[B]

Man, my heart's been good since the nonchalance of it.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

It's just, man. I mean, it's just like, what do you. What do you do, right? Like, I think they had like. I've had like 11 recorded concussions. That's recorded ones. Like, I mean, my gosh, man. Like, what do you. You know, it's like our mentality, right, is you run until it's completely broken, and then you deal with it. And if it doesn't completely break, you don't worry about it because there ain't nothing to worry about, man. And that's just the way, like, I kind of look at everything, you know?

[A]

So then what?

[B]

You know, I applied for 53 jobs, right?

[A]

So you go to look for a job at this point?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I apply for all these jobs, right? You hear of everybody. You know, we support the vets and we hire vets. And, you know, I do have a theory that some people do look at, like, see a ground, like a gunfighter's resume. And, you know, there is a stigma attached to us, right? Some of it's rightfully earned, I guess, maybe a little. But I also think it's a lot misunderstanding. Like, when people hear ptsd, they think that, like, loud noises scare me and I snap and this, that and the other, like, no. Like, when a loud sound goes off, my brain probably has initial reaction slightly different than yours. But I'm not going to dig a hole in my front yard. I'm not going to try to fight somebody that doesn't agree with me. Now, I'm not going to say at one time it wasn't like that, but that was more alcohol, right? But do you see what I'm saying? It's like. But I think that's what kind of prevented me from getting a job. You know, my last job in the army, I wasn't even kicking doors at this point. You know, I had a big old beard overseas. And, you know, Basic undercover, if you will. We called it low vis Louis visibility. And, you know, I had a couple hundred grand in American cash to get fake IDs for these operatives I was training to do this special mission. It's called. It was a 1208 program, separately funded from the DoD. Had the same security clearance as the president, signed for $28 million of equipment, charged with 30 Afghanis, dozen Americans. And I can't get a job?

[A]

That's what I was about to say. So you've done all of this, but you can't get a job?

[B]

Yeah, I was running. I was running. I want to say it was like, four businesses, undercover businesses through Afghan simultaneously.

[A]

Okay, so. But did your hazard pay or your, you know, separation. Did you have separation pay?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you got back?

[B]

No, no, I get. I'm very forthcoming about this. So mine, I think it's. I think I get like 4200amonth now.

[A]

Yeah, but back then, did you also get.

[B]

Yeah, as soon as I got out. Well, you get some extra pay above the conventional military for being a Ranger, if you like, because we deal with explosives, so we get that you get parachute pay, which all parachute units get, and then pro pay once you're an E5. So you get, like, it's like a total of 600 extra bucks a month. But they actually tried to do it to where special operation guys get more. Right. Because they're, like, based off your job because they're saying, hey, man, if you're trained to get on a helicopter and go into the middle of the place in the middle, I do all these crazy things. You should probably get more than the guy who just goes to do one office worker. Yeah. No offense to those guys. We need those guys. But, yeah, there's a difference.

[A]

So when you come back and you're the. The two years that it took to get out of the military, are they. They're paying you the 4200 right away?

[B]

Yeah, as soon as I get to

[A]

SA you a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. So. Well, the whole time they were seeing whether to get me out or not, I'm getting paid normal pay, so I'm getting paid normally. And then once you're separated, that's when that. That 4200amonth or whatever it is, something like that kicks in, I'd have to look. Exactly. But it's around there. And then, you know, I. I once I couldn't find a job. What do you do, like, 50 grand a year, ain't.

[A]

Not when you got to PTSD. You're still a recovering alcoholic.

[B]

I had included like 20 some grand in debt because I was a drunk. I had a 510 credit score. And then like, you know, you're just, you know, almost committed suicide. And then I was like, I can't find a job. Like, what am I going to do? And then I was like, I need to stay alive first and foremost. When's the only time I won't don't want to die is when I'm fishing. When's the only time for poor. Only way a poor person to fish every day is to take people with more money than you fishing. And so that's where the charter business was born.

[A]

Hey, guys, I hope that you loved part one of Jimmy's story. Stay tuned for next year, next week for part two. Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it. And we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on kalelowry.com and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else.

[B]

One of the biggest threats in your life are the ones you don't see coming. We may be raising the first generation who falls in love with a chatbot before the real person. And what if the way you think isn't even your own? If I make you think something is popular, I can get you to accept it. Real conversations tackling the issues shaping our lives. You're feeding this to your family. It could happen to your kids. I've been to way too many funerals. The Dr. Phil podcast, available now on YouTube and all podcast platforms. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. You swear if I'm lying, I'm dying.

[A]

This is the mindset free. This is the mantra. With movies like titanic, dream girls and

[B]

gladiator, why are you not entertained? And tv shows like survivor, spongebob squarepants, the fairly odd parents, and ghosts, pluto

[A]

tv is always free.

[B]

Pluto tv stream now pay never.

[A]

This.