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- [00:00]
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- [00:32]
Kale Lowry
Welcome to the show.
- [00:33]
Kristen
Things are going to get weird.
- [00:34]
Kale Lowry
It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're.
- [00:37]
Kristen
Listening to Barely Famous.
- [00:53]
Kale Lowry
Happy Friday everyone. Welcome to Barely Famous. Kristen sitting with Elliot and myself for this episode and she's not on camera, but she will be interviewing us for Elliot's episode. Happy Pride, everyone. I'm super excited to sit here with my son Elliot. And Isaac is going by Elliot. Now we'll talk about why I didn't wear any makeup today because I figured I'd probably cry at some point and it's probably best just to go in fresh face. I'm super excited and also nervous, apprehensive a little bit because obviously this is a very sensitive subject or maybe should be treated with care. I have some reservations about what we're discussing today because obviously this is my son and I don't want to ever put a target on his back or put him in a dangerous position. But with that being said, still want him to live his truth and live authentically and be proud of who he is because we're all proud of him. And.
- [02:00]
Elliot
Don'T cry already. I love you.
- [02:03]
Kale Lowry
And I'm not crying because I don't want to do this. I'm just crying because this is a really, this shows your strength and I'm just really proud of you. It's a really brave thing to do because not everyone can or wants to or has the safe space to live authentically like themselves. And so just tears of pride, truly being proud of you. And you know, I know that we've, we've faced a lot of challenges leading up to this point and not that I ever didn't want you to share who you are with the world, but I just, out of protection, wanted to make sure it was the right time in the right place and in the right way because I think a lot of times I have wanted to say things about myself or explain myself or prove everybody wrong in some way and my friends will be like, kale, just wait. Like there's a right time and there's a right place and There's a right way to do it, and you're gonna regret it if you do it any other way. So just sleep on it, give it some time. And I feel like that's exactly what we're doing today, is finally being able to share your story on your terms, in your words, and not letting other people influence your decision or take away your autonomy and your ability to share your own story. So it's gonna be an emotional episode. 90 seconds in. Already crying. So I'm just proud of you and I hope that maybe this will help somebody watching the look at someone that they love and maybe they have been homophobic or haven't been supportive of someone, you know, being gay or part of the queer community. I really hope that this will challenge them and cause them to self reflect a little bit and understand that, like, it doesn't matter who you love at the end of the day, like, as long as you're happy and safe, like, that is the goal, right? Like, life is hard enough. I don't. I don't get it. And I have just loved you through all of it, through everything. So that's my little. Those are my feelings.
- [04:16]
Elliot
Happy pride, everybody. I'm very nervous for this episode. I'm here today to show you who I am, not who you saw on TV for 12 years of my life. And it's very important to me because I feel like growing up on tv, it's hard to show who you really are when a camera is in front of you all the time. It's almost like you have like a. It's like a TV face. You know, it's harder to be yourself and to be more comfortable than. Because it's gonna be everywhere, all over the Internet. It's also weird because people will take what's online and make it their own and not. It's not the truth always. So I'm here today to show who I am. Going into this, I was pretty confident. I'm definitely ready. But stepping into it, I felt a little nervous, but I think it's important to talk about. Let's get it going.
- [05:21]
Kale Lowry
This is going to be emotional. I have no makeup on because I know I'm going to cry. So are you excited? You nervous?
- [05:27]
Elliot
Yeah, I'm. I'm glad it's with the people that it's with because it makes me more comfortable.
- [05:33]
Kale Lowry
There's Alessandra, myself, Kristen and Elliot in the room.
- [05:37]
Isaac
We've got a nice little closed production today.
- [05:40]
Kale Lowry
Yes.
- [05:41]
Isaac
Elliot, it was super important for you to set some expectations with the listeners and viewers of this episode, do you want to go into a little bit of detail about that?
- [05:50]
Elliot
Yes. I really want to make it clear that this is for me and for all the people that say things like, oh, we always knew, or we. Or, oh, I bet his dad doesn't like this. Like, things like that is not necessary. And I want it to be clear that this is for me, and I've built up the courage over time to make it known and let me have my moment. I'm really sick of people coming up with their own stories and, like, putting things in their own words and things coming out on other people's terms about me, because my life isn't entertainment for other people. My life is my life. Like, I can do what I want with it. And for people to take things from my life, like, personal stuff is not okay. It's. If I want to share that, I should share that on my terms.
- [07:07]
Kale Lowry
Agree.
- [07:07]
Isaac
We got to have a phone conversation about what you wanted to talk about in this episode and something that you shared was that it's really important to you to enforce boundaries within your private life, and you're also trying to do that within your public life now. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
- [07:23]
Elliot
Yeah, I think. Well, for me, it's important to have a private life because it's like, if I'm just, like, all over the Internet all the time and have no social life with people around me, like, that's like, what is that? You know? Like, it's very important to me to have a private life, too. So I feel like it's important to have boundaries within that, even for people that I know personally that know about me being on TV and stuff, like boundaries, for them to not share my personal life with the world and just anybody, like, fans, like, don't take something that I share with my personal life and put it publicly. But at the same time, I also have to be more cautious of that.
- [08:25]
Kale Lowry
Yeah. I think some of the conversations that you and I have been having lately is that there is a difference between your private life and your public life. And you have every right to hold on to certain things, to keep them private, and to put out whatever it is that you want to put out. However, I have tried to explain to Elliot these last several months is that whatever you share on a private platform, unfortunately will also get leaked. So your private Internet life is not actually a private life. Right. And so, you know, I have a private Facebook page that I don't add anyone to. But I understand that even though Those are all people I know in real life. And I don't add anyone I don't know. That's still very possible. I still have to be even careful with that because that can also get out. And it has. And so trying to explain that to Elliot has been a little bit challenging because we feel like we can trust the people in our lives. But I think that it's become very apparent over the last several months, if not a year, that that's not the case. And so you're trying to find the balance of what you want to share, because just because you grew up on TV doesn't mean that you necessarily want to put all your business out there like I do. And I don't want anyone to ever think that I am teaching you to put all your business out there. It's like, yeah, whatever you choose for yourself should be respected by, you know, the listeners, the viewers. And I think that there is a world where people can love you for putting out what you want to put out and not necessarily putting all of it out. You don't. People can love you and not expect you to sell your soul to social media.
- [09:59]
Elliot
Right. And I agree with that.
- [10:01]
Isaac
Kayla, you said something really interesting, that you want to put all of your stuff out there. Do you feel like that's actually the case, or do you feel like you have to before someone else does?
- [10:12]
Kale Lowry
I do feel like for my specific situation, that I have to put all my business out there and I have to go to extra lengths to film certain things before it gets out by other people. And I don't want my son to live in a world where that's the case. But I do understand that that is the case. We are in a very unique situation where we. I mean, just to use my own life as an example, Right. Like, it's usually because if I don't, someone else will. Sort of like my pregnancies, all my pregnancies have been leaked. So for you, I think there's a way to do it where it's private, but it's not a secret.
- [10:55]
Elliot
Right. Like, you want to have some sense of control and to put it out before someone else does. That's your control.
- [11:02]
Kale Lowry
Agreed. And for you, that's what I would hope for is that. But people will respect it. And I think so often to have boundaries. Yeah. Just having boundaries surrounding it, but boundaries are for us, not for other people. That just because we put them and say these are our boundaries doesn't mean that they're going to follow them. And so that's Sort of what I've been trying to explain to you is like the boundaries are not for other people, they're for you.
- [11:23]
Elliot
Right?
- [11:24]
Kale Lowry
And that's hard.
- [11:26]
Kristen
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- [12:52]
Elliot
I have a question for you. Do you.
- [12:54]
Kale Lowry
Since when are you the host of this?
- [12:57]
Elliot
Do you think that it's a little too late to set boundaries for yourself?
- [13:01]
Kale Lowry
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes I think that I've set the tone and there would be so much work to undo and so much reworking and rebranding and re everything to set boundaries. Now, like, I literally talk about myself on the podcast like there are no boundaries in kill out world. So.
- [13:18]
Elliot
Right.
- [13:19]
Kale Lowry
If anything, maybe it will help you learn what to do and what not to do and you can understand how much are you willing to share and set that tone right away, Set the bar right where you want it. And so for me, it's like I've already shared so, so, so, so, so much. When I scale back, people think, oh, she's keeping secrets. But really It's. I want to try to maintain some sense of, like, normalcy or privacy.
- [13:46]
Elliot
Do you think, though, that people will think you're keeping secrets no matter what?
- [13:50]
Kale Lowry
Yeah, they think I lie. They think I'm keeping secrets. And that's like, you can't help people's perception, but that will happen to you too. So you have to be careful and have to be sort of methodic on how you want to approach everything.
- [14:03]
Isaac
Elliot, do you feel like watching your mom go through this? At what point do you feel like you started paying attention to the things that she goes through, specifically on social media, Take the TV out of it and, like, the filming aspect. But at what point do you feel like you started paying attention to deciding for yourself when you decided to go on social media? I want to operate this way. I don't want to operate that way. Maybe in your personal life, you talked about the boundaries that you have for the people around you. When did you decide to start having those and, like, implementing them?
- [14:32]
Elliot
I started noticing things, like, with you and started learning from you and what you've gone through and what you post and what's on the Internet of you. Somewhat recently, like maybe a bit over a year ago, I notice just things of that nature, and it helps me build a strong sense of what to do in certain situations. I think that it has helped me a lot seeing through your eyes how you do things. It helps me do it better. You know what I mean?
- [15:13]
Kale Lowry
Well, I think there's a difference between, like, an influencer, a content creator, and then someone like me who literally shares everything. And I think that you've watched and you've seen rumors about me that you know are not true.
- [15:23]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [15:23]
Kale Lowry
And so you kind of get to look at the. The bigger picture and decide what you want for yourself when people are not deciding what they want for you and taking it and running for.
- [15:35]
Isaac
When you decided to start having your boundaries within your personal life, at what point do you feel like you gained the confidence to start doing that and implement those? And was it because of things that you've watched, or was it like you were like, I need this for myself.
- [15:47]
Elliot
I decided for myself to set boundaries more recently.
- [15:53]
Kale Lowry
When you say set boundaries, what does that mean for you? Like, when? Because I think that we need to make that very clear. What are your boundaries? Like? Are you saying that you're not going to talk about your personal life? Are you. Are you saying that you'll speak on things when you want, that you really don't want to put your personal life out There, like, what does the. What are the boundaries to you?
- [16:13]
Elliot
Boundaries to me are I'm gonna share what I want to share when I want to share it. You know, I'm not gonna share everything on the Internet, but I'm also not going to share nothing on the Internet. So I think it just needs to be a sense of respect.
- [16:32]
Kale Lowry
Like, you don't want people commenting, saying what you should share, what you shouldn't share, what they think of you. You don't want any of that.
- [16:40]
Elliot
Yeah. And I also don't like when people of my personal life go into those comment sections and put things out there that I did not share myself. And I've seen things like that before.
- [16:53]
Kale Lowry
I had words with two people specifically who did not come to me, and they re shared stuff about you that really pissed me off. I blocked them. I told them, don't ever talk to me again. Because at the point that you and I did not share them and you did not share them, what the made you think that that was okay for you to reshare that without talking to me and confirming with me? It did not come from either one of us.
- [17:17]
Elliot
Right.
- [17:17]
Kale Lowry
I think those are fair boundaries and those what's understood should not not have to be explained. But for some reason we're sitting here and like explaining. And I think the cool thing about Patreon, like, the people who are on this Patreon, it's real, they are respectful and they have been patient and they know that you're going to share and I'm going to share what we want to share. And they're the ones who are supporting you, and they're the ones who are going to support you whether you decide to share what's in your personal life or you don't. They're just here to support you. And I love that about this community, specifically because they're not pressuring you. I see their comments, I read what they have to say. I know. I see their feedback. And they're not. They don't expect you to just share everything. And I think that's what. That's the community that we want to continue to build off of. And obviously, we know that the Internet comes with trolls, and the Internet comes with people who are hateful and they want to. They prey on downfalls. But I think for this community itself, like, we're not really speaking to you guys. We're sort of speaking to everybody else who is not being respectful of a minor. Right. Like, at the end of the day, you are a minor. And for people to Go on social media and talk about your sexuality or to talk about, you know, people in your personal life, your friends on their social media is, to me, crazy, because you are a minor and your friends are minors.
- [18:33]
Elliot
It's also hard because people who aren't in the public eye don't understand. So it's hard for us to explain to them, like, boundaries and stuff and have them understand them, you know, like.
- [18:50]
Kale Lowry
So some will argue, then why be online at all?
- [18:52]
Elliot
Yeah, exactly.
- [18:53]
Kale Lowry
Well, I think It's a catch 22, which is what we were talking about before we started rolling. It's like. It is a catch 22 because we have created a safe space within this community. On Patreon and most of the Kale Lowry universe we'll call it, we've created a safe space, but there are obviously gonna be trolls that infiltrate that somehow. It's a catch 22 for you too, because you're in a weird position where you're, like, a pseudo Nepo baby, and you have the ability to, like, make money on social media at 15 years old, and you have the ability to share your passions for, you know, like, ASL and pride and, like, just be a regular kid on social media, because so many regular kids have social media. But then what is the balance? Like. Yeah, and I think it's just trying to figure out what that balance is, you know, in this unique position that you're in.
- [19:39]
Elliot
That's the only thing I've ever wanted, really. I really want a balance of my personal and public life. And it's hard to do that when you can't really. You can't go back, you know?
- [19:50]
Kale Lowry
Yeah. And that's a fair ask. I feel it's very. It's valid.
- [19:54]
Isaac
Speaking of catch 22's Kale as his mom, but also as a public figure, yourself this entire episode, but also Elliot's life on tv, social media. What is this like for you to, like, know it, but then also have a child that wants to go through it? So you're looking at it as a parent. What is this like for you?
- [20:14]
Kale Lowry
It's been a roller coaster because, obviously, I'm so proud of him. I'm so proud of you. And I want people to see you and, like, know you and feel your energy and, like, you're so passionate about things that people, I think, overlook. And so, on one hand, I, like, want you to do all the things right. Like, you have a real opportunity to impact people's lives in a really important way. But on the other side of it, like, I understand what comes with that? And I just want to protect you from all of those things. And it's hard because I don't. And I'm speaking for the entire cast, and I hope they don't get mad at me for saying this, but I truly don't think that any of us understood the implications and impact of what we would have on our children. And at the end of the day, like, we weren't thinking that we were exploiting our children. For myself, I signed up for this show out of pure desperation and needing money and needing to figure out a way out of the situation that I was in. I don't think that I ever thought about where we would be in 15 years. I thought it was right now, I'm gonna get paid. I'm gonna figure this out, and I'll get my life together for my son. And so I have a hard time now because I know the benefits of social media. I understand the benefits of being a public figure, the opportunities that can come from it. But I also know where that leaves us mentally sometimes. It can be draining. It can be so many good things, but it can be so many bad things. And so, as your mom, I want to protect you, and I want you. I want to be able to say, okay, that's great, but don't do this, this, and this. But I also understand as a human being that sometimes we have to learn the fucking hard way. We got to do it ourselves to learn that lesson. And sometimes it's the same lesson over and over again until you fucking get it. And so I don't know. It's a really weird place to be because I know so many people that I've talked to on Barely Famous that have been like, I would never let my child be a part of this industry, or my child's never getting social media, or I understand all sides of it, and I think that no one situation is alike necessarily. But I know for you, there's a place for you to be passionate about ASL online, and there's a passion. There's a place for you to be passionate about your vinyl collection, and there's, you know, room for you to do all the things that you want to do on social media, and there's a balance. But I think that we. We do really need people find it. Yeah, to find your balance, but also for people to respect that, like you are a child. So I say all that to say that it's been a really hard place for me to be in as a parent and a public figure at the Same time for you.
- [22:47]
Kristen
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- [24:09]
Elliot
Your first order to go back on what you said about not thinking about, you know, what it would be like in 15 years when you were a teenager, my age, being on the show or trying to get on the show. I can also see that it's not something that someone your age at the time would think about.
- [24:32]
Kale Lowry
Social media wasn't out there the same way it is now. So If I was 16 and pregnant.
- [24:38]
Elliot
Today, it would be different.
- [24:40]
Kale Lowry
I would have a. I think I would like to think that I would look at it from a different perspective because I could see all the apps, all the Internet, all the trolls, all the forums, all the, all the things back then Instagram came out after you were born, or I got on Instagram after you were born. So it was very different. And so I think that also played a part. Do you ever feel resentment because I had us on TV your whole life? Like do you get upset with me or angry with me ever?
- [25:07]
Elliot
No, I.
- [25:09]
Kale Lowry
It's okay if you have been.
- [25:10]
Elliot
No, I don't. I really. I really don't. I might feel a way that we were on it for so long, but at the same time, I try my best to look at the positives, and we wouldn't be right here in this moment if it wasn't for everything you've done, you know? And I just couldn't see it another way. And I'm really grateful for you. You're, like, the only person that I ever. You're the only person I need.
- [25:52]
Kale Lowry
We stopped rolling. You asked me if it was important for you to share this, and what was it?
- [25:58]
Elliot
It was about taking pictures with people.
- [26:00]
Kale Lowry
When people come up to us in public, I don't mind. I'm an adult. I have. You know, I can make my own decisions. But we have come across times where people be, like, I said, get in it, or they'll physically grab him.
- [26:11]
Elliot
Oh, yeah.
- [26:12]
Kale Lowry
Specifically the Jelly Roll concert in Philly.
- [26:14]
Elliot
That lady. Yeah.
- [26:15]
Kale Lowry
Physically grabbed him to be in the picture. That's not okay. Yeah. And just respectfully, you know, keep in mind, he is a child and he's a minor, and. And he's probably gonna say no, regardless. He doesn't like to be in pictures.
- [26:30]
Elliot
I think, over time, like, at some point, but not as a child. Later in life, I think, like, at some point I'll be okay with it. But now I love talking to people and just come up to me, don't touch him. Yeah, don't touch me. Don't touch me. But with pictures, come up to me and ask, but where I am now, I probably will say no.
- [26:56]
Kale Lowry
Well, I think it's hard, too, because, I mean, we don't know where these pictures are going. We don't get to see them. If they're on somebody else's phone, we don't get to see them. So it's like, we don't know where they're going. And, like. And you can't ask Three Chin sometimes. So I don't want. If I have. It's an ugly angle. I don't want it to get posted. But people get so excited. And I know. I get it. Like, I do. But he's a child. You know, they go through puberty. They're going through their own little, you know, identity things and trying to figure out who they are. They don't want pictures like that on the Internet.
- [27:26]
Isaac
Truly. With the rise of AI that can do anything with any image.
- [27:30]
Kale Lowry
That's terrifying.
- [27:32]
Isaac
That's another thing.
- [27:33]
Kale Lowry
And so we. We're not saying this to be mean and say, like, we're not thankful for you guys. Because I think what you're saying is like you to talk to people.
- [27:39]
Elliot
I love it.
- [27:40]
Kale Lowry
But the pictures is. It's hard. It's. AI is so powerful, but also so scary.
- [27:46]
Elliot
It is.
- [27:47]
Kale Lowry
You know, we're not saying it to be rude or not thankful for you guys. It's just, you know, keep in mind he's a minor.
- [27:52]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [27:53]
Isaac
Have a conversation. Keep spatial awareness. And that goes for not even just you, not even just your mom. Anybody in general. You see somebody that you are absolutely loving their content or their media presence or an actor, an actress. It does not matter.
- [28:08]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [28:09]
Isaac
Just don't grab anyone. Don't grab an adult. Don't grab an elderly individual. Don't grab children. Don't grab a pregnant belly. Don't grab anything.
- [28:16]
Elliot
Yeah, don't do it.
- [28:17]
Isaac
Not even animals. Let's not touch animals. You know, like, we'll just. Don't do it. No touching.
- [28:22]
Kale Lowry
Agreed.
- [28:23]
Isaac
Love that.
- [28:23]
Elliot
Yeah. Also, I. It does make me uncomfortable when people take pictures from afar. I. I prefer if you would come up to me.
- [28:32]
Kale Lowry
We know you're excited. Yeah, but he's still a human being.
- [28:35]
Elliot
Yeah, but the way I think of it, like, I feel you. Like, I understand. Like, if I were freaking come across Post Malone in public, like, you know, like, I would feel the same way. But you have to think, like, we are still human. We still have feelings. We're not robots. So just come up to us, have a conversation, and I'm comfortable. I'm cool.
- [29:01]
Isaac
Elliot. We're obviously referencing you as Elliot.
- [29:03]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [29:04]
Isaac
As. And that's what you would like to be called moving forward. And that's what we all call you in your personal life. Can you share with us why you go by Elliot now?
- [29:12]
Elliot
I started going by Elliot because at some point I wasn't happy with my first name. I don't know. Like, I just. Not. Because I don't. I don't know. Like, it just doesn't feel like me or in some way.
- [29:27]
Kale Lowry
Can I share what. Why I thought you were not doing Isaac.
- [29:32]
Elliot
Huh?
- [29:33]
Kale Lowry
To build a separation between your life on Teen mom and who you are today.
- [29:37]
Elliot
Yeah, no, that's part of it.
- [29:39]
Kale Lowry
Okay.
- [29:40]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [29:40]
Kale Lowry
That's why I thought that we. I mean. And I don't really remember the conversation. I just know that, like, Elliot started coming home and like, all his teachers. So you started going to a new high school. It wasn't the high school that you, like, would have gone to. The paperwork all said Elliot. Like, the teachers were writing Elliot, and it was, like, comments about Elliot, and I was like, wait a minute, are we going by Elliot now?
- [30:01]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [30:01]
Kale Lowry
And it's so funny because it's hard once you know, somebody has a certain name. Right. Like my.
- [30:06]
Elliot
Especially if it's family.
- [30:07]
Kale Lowry
My childhood people all. You know, my mom's whole side of my family, even my. My dad's side of the family calls me Kayin. Like, it will never be Kale.
- [30:14]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [30:15]
Kale Lowry
I got the nickname Kale when I was in eighth grade, and it's stuck ever since. So for me, I don't. If you call me Kin. You must have known me from my childhood.
- [30:24]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [30:24]
Kale Lowry
So for you, everyone's always called you Isaac. So now retraining our brains to call you Elliot, obviously, we're getting used to it, but Creed.
- [30:33]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [30:33]
Kale Lowry
Started recently. He's 4, and he started calling you Elliot. And it's so funny. He's like, who? My brother Elliot. And I'm like, first of all, yeah. How easy was that for him? But, like, I think I can appreciate the separation between who you were and who you are today. I. I think that that is cool for you to recognize. It's cool for you to sort of decide what makes you comfortable.
- [30:57]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [30:58]
Kale Lowry
And that was your decision. So when you go to your dad's house, are they calling you Elliot, too, or.
- [31:04]
Elliot
I don't expect that from them.
- [31:05]
Kale Lowry
Okay.
- [31:06]
Elliot
I didn't expect it from you either. Like, I didn't think, like, oh, you have to call me Elliot. I don't take any other name, but, like, I would have been fine if you kept calling me Isaac. Because I know that, like, it would be hard for. That transition would have been hard. And it was a bit. Because, I mean, called me by my first name my whole life, you know. Yeah. I think the separation from my personal and private life or who I was on TV from who I am now, that's like, the main reason. But at some point, I don't know, I just realized, like, I like my middle name better, you know, fair. Like, fair.
- [31:51]
Kale Lowry
I couldn't think of a. I wanted your first name to be Elliot, but I couldn't think of a middle name at that time. If I could go back, I'd name you Elliot Ace.
- [31:58]
Elliot
I like that.
- [31:59]
Kale Lowry
Yeah. That would be what I would have named you. I like that because I. I didn't. Isaac is cool.
- [32:06]
Isaac
Does it bother you when people that you've told you want to be called Elliot, too? Don't do that.
- [32:12]
Elliot
Oh, yeah. Yeah. A little bit.
- [32:15]
Isaac
It.
- [32:15]
Elliot
I mean, like, I can't force you to call me by my middle name, but it does Bother me when it's kind of like. Well, I mean, it doesn't bother me that much, but it. Oh. Like. And it's not that big of a deal, but it also kind of does feel like, like a boundary thing. I get a little bit, you know.
- [32:38]
Kale Lowry
When people call me Kaylin today, obviously, there's. You can call me that.
- [32:42]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [32:42]
Kale Lowry
But Kristen can call me whatever she wants. But, like, when certain people refer to me as Kayla, I'm like, you don't have a right to call me that. Like, it's weird.
- [32:51]
Elliot
It's weird.
- [32:52]
Kale Lowry
It's not who I am. It is, but it's. I get it. I get what you're saying.
- [32:55]
Elliot
It also makes me more comfortable around you if you call me by my middle name. You know, like, if somebody at school called me Isaac, I'm like, hey, like, you know, you don't know me. Yeah, you don't know me. Like, you know, unless it's someone that knew me before I started going by that, then it's fine, you know, relatable. If you were calling me Isaac, that's fine. Or if it was, like, to my two best friends from school, from. From my old school, I would have been fine. I'm fine with that.
- [33:28]
Kale Lowry
Right.
- [33:28]
Elliot
You know?
- [33:28]
Kale Lowry
No, that makes sense to me.
- [33:29]
Isaac
When you say to someone, you know, my name's Elliot, and they've known you as Isaac, and they actively just choose not to use Elliot, do you view it as disrespect? I think I would a little bit, yeah.
- [33:41]
Elliot
But unless I knew them before I started going by that. But at the same time, if everyone around me or if everyone around them is calling me Elliot, you know, like, it's kind of like. It's hard sometimes it can be hard to, like, listen for two names, you know?
- [34:00]
Kristen
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- [34:53]
Kale Lowry
Is through an app.
- [34:53]
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- [35:39]
Isaac
Elliot, what kind of support do young people like yourself need when making the decision to come out? Do you even feel like it's necessary to actually come out? What are your thoughts around that?
- [35:48]
Elliot
I don't think it's necessary to come out. I mean, I'm doing it for me so you can do what you want. Like, if you feel it's necessary to come out, then do it. But if you don't, then just be yourself, you know, like, you don't have to prove anything to anyone. So just be who you are and be true to yourself. At the end of the day, it's for you.
- [36:08]
Kale Lowry
There's so many things I want to say. There's specifically to this. Nobody wakes up and tells their family they're straight. Literally nobody.
- [36:16]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [36:17]
Kale Lowry
The other thing is I. The being born gay versus choosing to be gay. Are you choosing to be straight? Because last time I checked, when you are straight, you just wake up and you're straight. So why would it be different for someone who nobody's choosing to put themselves in a place where they're facing adversity and dangerous situations. Nobody's choosing to put themselves in a position where their family is kicking them out and they're on the streets. Nobody is choosing that.
- [36:42]
Elliot
That.
- [36:42]
Kale Lowry
And so I really just cannot encourage you guys enough. And I'M speaking to the adults who are having children or maybe have family members that are homophobic. I'm speaking to you guys. It's like one, well, maybe don't have kids if you're not going to love them unconditionally. That's number one. And number two, your child is not choosing this. This is something that is.
- [37:03]
Elliot
They're born with.
- [37:04]
Kale Lowry
I like, I believe they're born with. And so if you don't like what I have to say, I encourage you to do some research to really look into it and understand like why you just feel like it's wrong. Like, that is the only. Like you feel like it's not natural, but it is. Because if it wasn't, nobody would choose just to be gay. Just to be gay.
- [37:24]
Elliot
Nobody would do that with the things that people go through with that, you know, like you're gonna choose the easy route.
- [37:36]
Isaac
What kind of support do you feel like, like you've had that other kids do not have and could use like any, I don't want to say tips, but for parents out there, like, how.
- [37:48]
Kale Lowry
How best can we support our children who are part of the queer community?
- [37:54]
Elliot
I don't know. There's not much you can say, like just love them unconditionally, be and let them be who they are and maybe make a comfortable environment with them. You know, like make sure that they feel safe and protected and happy and comfortable around you. I think it's important to make sure that you are aware of certain things, like maybe have a conversation with them. Yeah, I don't know. There's. I feel like it's easier said than done.
- [38:26]
Kale Lowry
It's easier said than done. I also think that people are homophobic and don't realize they're homophobic. They don't understand why they're homophobic. They just have been taught their whole lives that it's not natural and to be gay or to be part of the queer community. And I think that they have to understand that per first. And that takes a certain level of self awareness to even get to that point. And so there's a lot of work that needs to be done. But like I said earlier, I think when you have kids, you have to choose to love them unconditionally because you cannot control who they love. You cannot control. Right. What their sexuality is. And for me, I never gave a. No, I. If you came home and told me that you wanted to marry a woman, cool. You tell me you want to marry a man, cool. I don't give a. Because at the End of the day, that part does not affect me or my life. It only affects you. And who you love is who you love. At the end of the day, I'm not going to sever a relationship with my child based off of who he loves or doesn't love.
- [39:25]
Elliot
Right.
- [39:26]
Kale Lowry
I'm not gonna forfeit a relationship with you because I don't. But I also don't think that way either. Like, I am also. I love who I love. I've been with women. I've been with men.
- [39:36]
Elliot
Right. So actually, I do have something. I think that it's important for parents to. If they're not comfortable or don't know how to approach it or don't know how to make their child comfortable, immerse yourself in the community. Go to a pride event or talk to somebody that's gay.
- [39:58]
Kale Lowry
Because sometimes you don't even know someone's gay.
- [40:00]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [40:00]
Kale Lowry
They're just like the rest of us.
- [40:02]
Elliot
Exactly.
- [40:03]
Kale Lowry
I think that there is a stigma surrounding the queer community. The gay community, that is, like, they're. You're different.
- [40:08]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [40:08]
Kale Lowry
But you're really.
- [40:09]
Elliot
Think about it like you grew up watching me.
- [40:13]
Kale Lowry
I mean, and people know and love you.
- [40:16]
Elliot
Yeah, exactly. So the way you, like, watch me online, like. Like, love your child. I. I don't know.
- [40:26]
Kale Lowry
I also think that there are some people who. It's fine when it's someone else's kid.
- [40:31]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [40:31]
Kale Lowry
It's fine when it's someone else's kid until their kid is part of the queer community. And again, like, I. I can't put myself there because I don't have those same, like, thoughts or concerns. Just, like, I just never cared.
- [40:43]
Elliot
But I think it's just hard because you have to experience it to understand. Like, you have to, like. Because some people are born and raised homophobic.
- [40:53]
Kale Lowry
Yeah. And they don't. It's, like, implicit. Like, they don't realize. Yeah. And that's not okay.
- [40:58]
Elliot
But also. Right. And there's no room for their own opinion. So, like, I think the first step is just trying to, like, try to build comfort and try to immerse yourself in the community. Try to, like, you just have to realize that we're not different. We're just regular people.
- [41:25]
Kale Lowry
How did you know that I was a safe space for you to be yourself and to be gay? Like, how did you know that you could trust me or that you could talk to me or tell me or how did you know? Like, what was it?
- [41:41]
Elliot
Well, don't cry again. I don't know if it will make you cry, but I mean, I guess I've just always been comfortable around you. You've always made me feel comfortable around you. I've never felt like I couldn't tell you something or like you just made a good environment for me and like I've always been able to come to you about things, you know.
- [42:09]
Kale Lowry
But how do you know that?
- [42:12]
Elliot
Just, I don't know. You just. I can just feel like myself around you, you know, like, you know.
- [42:23]
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- [43:44]
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- [44:43]
Kale Lowry
And what about your brothers? Did you feel the same way about them?
- [44:47]
Elliot
Yeah. Yeah.
- [44:49]
Kale Lowry
Because I don't think they care.
- [44:50]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [44:50]
Kale Lowry
Although Lux thought you twerked. That meant you were gay.
- [44:54]
Elliot
I remember that.
- [44:55]
Kale Lowry
Do you ever twerk?
- [44:56]
Elliot
No.
- [44:57]
Kale Lowry
I don't know the record. Lux, that's for you, babe.
- [44:59]
Elliot
That's for you. I don't know how to twerk work.
- [45:01]
Kale Lowry
I don't think Lincoln ever cared either.
- [45:03]
Elliot
No, I feel like. Yeah. Like they just look at me and they're like, oh, that's my brother. It doesn't matter if he's gay. It's my brother.
- [45:12]
Kale Lowry
It's not contagious. Like, I think people are worried too, like.
- [45:14]
Elliot
Oh, like a lot of straight guys, especially.
- [45:17]
Kale Lowry
Interesting. But okay, that's interesting.
- [45:21]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [45:21]
Isaac
That's in my opinion, because people, it's. There's still a stigma around it and it goes against like the nuclear family, it. That we're all fed from a very, very young age and that it's like, like it's wrong if you're gay or it's like it's a very weird thing. At least coming from me as a straight person, I see it. To me, it's also like, it's mostly coming from people that are not comfortable within their own sexuality.
- [45:48]
Elliot
Right.
- [45:48]
Isaac
That perpetuate it.
- [45:49]
Kale Lowry
Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. It's so interesting though, because I'm like, there are people who don't want their kids around gay people or whatever. And it's like, but my kids are around, around. My other sons are around you. You're gay. And they're not. And they're not affected by it. They don't care. If anything, they'll just ask you questions because they don't know. But it's almost like normalizing it for them because they don't think any different of you. You're just their brother.
- [46:16]
Elliot
Yeah. And I also think that just because they're around me doesn't. It's not contagious. Like, you Said, like, they're not going to turn gay because of me. They're. If they're gay, they're all. They were born that way, you know.
- [46:29]
Kale Lowry
Do you feel as though I did anything or your dad did anything in your childhood to make you gay? Because.
- [46:37]
Elliot
Absolutely not.
- [46:39]
Kale Lowry
People have said that you weren't around your dad enough or I, you know, was doing certain things in my parenthood that turned you gay. Do you feel like any of that is true?
- [46:52]
Elliot
No. And, like, I mean, I have had 50. 50 custody. It's 50, 50 custody. So. Been with my mom and my dad equally. I think that people confuse, like, who they're around, like, the parent. They confuse it with, like, masculinity. You know, like, it's not about sexuality. It's about how masculine, feminine they are.
- [47:16]
Kale Lowry
So to you, when you look at a man or a woman, what is masculine to you? For your generation, what would you say is masculine?
- [47:25]
Isaac
Or with your generation, have they taken those roles and the stereotypes more out of it than how your mom and I grew up? Like, is it looked at the same where everything your mom just explained about Elijah, do you even identify that as masculine in your generation? Because you might not.
- [47:44]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [47:44]
Isaac
Okay, so some of it still bled through to your generation, but some of it is not necessarily identifying this trait as masculine or feminine. Like, if you saw a man crying, would you say that they're feminine, or would you say they're just crying?
- [48:02]
Elliot
That's normal. Yeah.
- [48:04]
Kale Lowry
Okay, so men crying in our generation, millennials, is not normal.
- [48:09]
Isaac
It should be.
- [48:10]
Kale Lowry
It should be.
- [48:12]
Elliot
And that's why.
- [48:13]
Kale Lowry
And that's why part of this is good for this entire conversation is like, how we view masculinity versus femininity.
- [48:19]
Elliot
I don't even think that you can be like, I don't think anyone is just masculine or just feminine.
- [48:25]
Kale Lowry
And I would.
- [48:26]
Elliot
Well, I think everyone has traits of qualities of both. Yeah.
- [48:32]
Kale Lowry
Well, so your generation is more. So deconstructing the gender roles and the stigma surrounding masculine energy or masculine behaviors versus feminine behaviors and things of that nature, I think that your generation is deconstructing that where. And millennials, too. I think millennials are starting to. But for me, like, I grew up with the men in my life and the men, my grandfather, my uncles, you wouldn't catch them crying. You wouldn't catch them talking about their feelings. You don't catch them.
- [49:02]
Elliot
You know, it's just not healthy, though.
- [49:05]
Kale Lowry
It's not. But we know that now.
- [49:06]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [49:07]
Kale Lowry
But for generations and things before me, it's like, that was not Something. That's why. I mean, being gay and being part of the queer community was not talked about. It was like, don't ask, don't tell. You don't talk about it. You just. If you know, you know. And you might want to stay away from them because it might be contagious. Where, like, today is like, we're having bigger conversations and raising more awareness around it. Just being normalized.
- [49:28]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [49:29]
Isaac
So I know this episode was planned out for a while, and you had had a lot of conversations with mom and things like that. And then, unfortunately, your plans were disrupted by somebody publicly posting some photos that were shared on a private Facebook page from prom. Do you want to talk about that? How it made you feel, the impact that took on people around you? And just take us through what that was like.
- [49:54]
Kale Lowry
You went to prom. You were asked to prom by a junior.
- [49:57]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [49:58]
Kale Lowry
A male. And those pictures and videos were leaked.
- [50:04]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [50:05]
Kale Lowry
And then I got home crying, ugly crying. How were you feeling when you saw that everything was leaking?
- [50:17]
Elliot
I was devastated. I. I also ugly cried before you got home. It's just. It was very disappointing because, I mean, nobody knew that we were playing this episode, but it's just disappointing going back to things being on my terms. It's like, even if you thought you knew I was gay already, like. Like, it's disappointing that I couldn't.
- [50:46]
Kale Lowry
Share your own experience.
- [50:47]
Elliot
Share it on my terms.
- [50:49]
Kale Lowry
Agreed.
- [50:50]
Elliot
And the way it happened was just not okay. It was very. I don't want to say negative, but it was very like, you know, at.
- [51:01]
Kale Lowry
The point that you did not post it yourself or. I did not have permission to post it.
- [51:05]
Elliot
It wasn't necessary.
- [51:07]
Kale Lowry
Was a. Just a violation. It was. No, it wasn't even about respect. It was about the fact that you're a minor, and it was a huge violation of just your privacy in general.
- [51:18]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [51:18]
Kale Lowry
And I think that that was really, really heartbreaking.
- [51:21]
Elliot
Yeah. And honestly, it's not even about just me anymore. It's about the people who are in those pictures. It's about the people.
- [51:31]
Kale Lowry
Their safety.
- [51:32]
Elliot
Yeah, their safety.
- [51:33]
Kale Lowry
And that maybe they weren't out yet.
- [51:35]
Elliot
Yet. Exactly.
- [51:37]
Kale Lowry
Maybe he wasn't out. Maybe his family didn't know. Maybe his friends didn't know. And now you've put them in a dangerous. Both my son and, you know, his date, you put them in a very dangerous position. And I think just to have your post go viral or your post get likes or for your po, like, for that instant gratification of yourself. You leaked pictures of minors to be able to Say that you heard it first or that you have the information first or you knew it. You called it not even money because I don't even think anyone got paid. I mean, I think the tick tocks maybe, but reposting pictures for what?
- [52:13]
Elliot
And that's the problem. It. People don't understand that if I don't share it, it shouldn't be out there.
- [52:20]
Kale Lowry
You know, if you did not share it yourself on your public plat. And, and that's the catch 222 that we were talking about is like your private Internet stuff is not actually private. Private. It's private, but it's not private. People will people. And I've learned that the hard way and I've learned it so many times and I still haven't really learned it is like I want to give people the benefit of the doubt and I want to trust the people around me. And I think, oh, I can just post this on my. On my personal Facebook. Yeah, but there are people in your real life circle, unfortunately, that will want to. They will pray on your downfall and they will post it and they will take it. And you'll never know. You'll know when. You'll find out when it's entirely too late.
- [52:58]
Elliot
Late.
- [52:59]
Isaac
You guys were planning the episode before that happened.
- [53:02]
Kale Lowry
Yes.
- [53:03]
Isaac
And that was on your terms. That was having conversations like what we're having now, which I'm very glad that you still wanted to, you know, share it this way and have everything out in your own words. I know you had told me that you went to mom about wanting to.
- [53:20]
Kale Lowry
Post something immediately, originally, before this episode that we're recording today came out, he came to me and said that he was ready to come out publicly and he wanted to do it on Instagram.
- [53:32]
Elliot
Yeah. I didn't really know how to approach it.
- [53:35]
Kale Lowry
It made me nervous for you to post something on Instagram and then other people to screen, record, make videos and make money off of you coming out. It's exploitative and it's not fair. And so if you're going to share your story, then you should be able to tell your story in your own words. I'm not making a dime of profit off of this. This is going to you. So know you have the right to tell your story, but you should be the one benefiting from your story. And that was what was important to me for you as your mom. Part of the reason why I was just saying, like, for people to repost and to reshare to be able to have the final, final word. Final word on who you are and what you're posting and who you love is like, to me, it's disgusting. For everyone out there that thinks that this was done for money, it's not. It's just, you know, Elliot felt like it was time to share his story. And in. In my opinion, he should be the one that collects any money that comes. It's his story, his words, his terms, his everything.
- [54:30]
Elliot
For me, though, the main concern was not about money. It was about me sharing my story on my terms because it's important to me and it's also important for me to hopefully inspire other people and, like, help other people who are in the same situation or similar situation work through it the best that they can. And I also can make rather it be one minute video. It can be an hour, maybe longer, you know, so that's also important to me. I think that to have my moment, it's better if it's longer and more.
- [55:16]
Kale Lowry
In depth.
- [55:17]
Elliot
Yes, in depth.
- [55:18]
Isaac
So after the incident with your information and your private pictures being leaked online, you had shared with me that you went back to mom and you wanted to immediately post something. Yeah, mom shared with me that she. It was a very interesting position. I would love for you to speak on that, Kayl, because you've had a lot of us tell you, sleep on it. Don't do that now. You're going to regret it. And you hate every bit of it every time. So what was that? What was that like for you, for you to be in that position when you have already had the feelings and the experiences of us telling you?
- [55:53]
Kale Lowry
No, I'm. While you were saying that, I pulled up the conversation between Elliot and myself.
- [55:58]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [55:59]
Kale Lowry
Once all these pictures and things leaked on social media, they just kept coming.
- [56:04]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [56:05]
Kale Lowry
You texted me and you said, I'm not letting this slide. By the way, I won't wait till Pride Weekend and I will be posting a video about this because my boundaries are crossed and I won't let it go on anymore. We have made it very clear to them and they continue to disrespect me. It was. It's. It was a full circle moment for me because I have been in that place so many times and Kristen, Alessandra, other people have said, kale, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait. And I would be so angry and so upset and so heartbroken about whatever it was that I just wanted to speak on it right now. And that this is where that cliche saying comes in, like, what's done in the dark will come to light. But I literally Texted Elliot back. And I said, don't do that. You're going to regret it, I promise you. And anytime that I have immediately responded out of, you know, being emotionally charged, anger, hurt, whatever, because I wanted to explain myself and get the last word and for people to see me, what for who I am, everyone. It always backfired and it always made things worse. And you said, in what way will I regret this? And I said, they will not listen to you either way, no matter what you do or say. You're letting them win if you do that. And I don't agree or support you, you posting the video. You said, I'm a human being and if I speak up, they'll shut up. And I said, you're allowing them to rip this from you. They don't give a. And no, they won't shut up. They literally won't. They'll spin whatever you say, and it'll get worse. You'll give them everything they want. They'll say, oh, confirmed. Yep, he said it. I knew it. And then what you said, but they're going to rip it from me anyway, so I might as well speak up. And I said, might as well not. You're acting on emotion and impulse right now.
- [57:43]
Elliot
And that's exactly true. True.
- [57:45]
Kale Lowry
And you said, but I can't wait any longer. I said, you're not going to solve anything. I understand the frustrations because I. I've been there. You can absolutely wait. You're gonna make it worse. I have not steered you wrong yet. And it's not worth it, Elliot, I promise you. And you said, I just don't understand people. I responded and said, you will drive yourself crazy trying to. You cannot control what they do. You need to take time. Use this as fuel to make sure you say everything you want to say. Write it in a note on your phone. But you cannot let them win this. And he said, okay, love you. You're right. I am acting on impulse. It's just not fair that they can like this. And I don't even know them. And I just said, it's okay to be mad, but write it all out on your phone so you start to feel better. It's not fair. It's actually heartbreaking. And I, I fully agree. Like, this is something that you should be able to speak out on your own terms and you shouldn't be responding simply because people are instigating and making you feel like about it. It's like, yeah, this should be a proud moment. It should be a happy moment. It should be everything that you want it to be to inspire other people. And I don't want you to speak out because you're angry or you're hurt.
- [58:47]
Elliot
Yeah, it definitely was out of impulse after that that I wanted to speak up sooner, but I. Like she said or like she always tells me, sleep on it. And I did. And I felt better and I knew it was better to wait because I can have my moment and share, say everything that I want rather than out of anger. Talk about it in a one minute video.
- [59:19]
Kale Lowry
I think I've said enough things out of anger. And you've seen that and felt it. That. Yeah, it never really turned out well for me.
- [59:25]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [59:26]
Isaac
What was that like, having to tell him, like, give him the advice that you've been given and hated? What was that?
- [59:31]
Kale Lowry
Like, I felt it from both sides. Like, I felt like I understood both sides of it for the first time. I understood your perspective or Alessandra's perspective or anything. Anyone in my corner's perspective for the first time on the other side of it. And like, in the moment, you don't want to hear it. You're like, but I want to do this. I want to say this, I want to get this off my chest. But like, truly there is no. They're going to feel how they're going to feel regardless. So let them hear this entire episode. Let them hear it from your own mouth. Let them let you not be emotionally charged. And it'll be perceived. They're going to end up having their own feelings regardless. But it might be perceived differently when you're speaking from a place of love and compassion and inspiration and aspiration and all of those things versus emotionally charged anger. Because, I mean, look at my entire life on T mom. Everything came from an emotionally charged place. Everything came from an angry place. And a lot of people did not. I mean, I'm getting messages now that are hearing me from the podcast saying, oh, I have a completely different perspective because you said it differently.
- [60:33]
Elliot
Differently, yeah.
- [60:34]
Kale Lowry
You have a different tone on your podcast versus on the tv. That would have been you. Elliot is speaking from a place of anger, of hurt, of heartbreak, of, you know, all of these things versus you coming on here now and having an actual conversation and a dialogue versus talking at people.
- [60:52]
Elliot
It sucks that the world works the way it works, but understanding that is half the battle. Yeah.
- [61:02]
Isaac
If you take anything from this experience, looking at someone who's been on the emotional side with your mom for a very long time and also seeing how public reacts, you're never going to be able to People are going to perceive things however they choose to, whether they come in with their own narrative or their own issues and they're triggered and whatever. But you're going to walk away from this proud of your own delivery and how you said it. And it's for you, right? So, like, that's my hope.
- [61:34]
Kale Lowry
1,000% for this. 1,000%. Couldn't have said it better. Thank you all so much for tuning.
- [61:39]
Kristen
In to part one.
- [61:40]
Kale Lowry
I hope you guys will spread love and positivity surrounding this. I hope that you guys will show Elliot support and give him grace through all of this. This is a very brave thing for him to do. And I hope that you guys tune in for part two.
- [62:28]
Justin Sylvester
I'm Justin Sylvester. And I'm Blake Lee Thornton. Join us for Yesterdays, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give them the queer love that they deserve. The things that got us riled up during dial up, those makeouts that should have been breakout and the drops that were cemented in pop. I'm talking Bennifer, Tyra versus Naomi, Tom Cruise jumping on that couch, and so much more. So please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere you get audio related content. We also take Venmo and Cash, app ach or credit card number as well. We're malleable, you know we're gay today.