Healing the Hurt We Didn’t Ask For With MY sister Mikaila

Summary

Podcast Summary: Barely Famous – “Healing the Hurt We Didn’t Ask For With MY Sister Mikaila”

Host: Kail Lowry (PodcastOne)
Guest: Mikaila (Kail’s sister)
Date: December 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and revealing episode, Kail Lowry sits down with her sister Mikaila for their first podcast conversation. Together, they open up about their emotionally complex family history, growing up apart, learning about each other’s existence, their relationships with their late father, and how generational trauma, secrets, and family dysfunction shaped their lives. Bracingly honest and raw, the sisters address difficult topics: identity, estrangement, grief, reconciliation, and their hopes for a healthier future for themselves and their children.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Meeting Each Other & Discovering Sisterhood

• How They Found Out About Each Other:
  • Mackenzie (Kail) found out about Mikaila at age 12 after a family argument revealed her existence ([02:25]).
  • Mikaila didn’t learn about Mackenzie until she received a Facebook friend request in high school, which her mother initially asked her to delete ([02:42]).
  • Both express how adult decisions and secrecy deprived them of a relationship during their formative years.
• Distinct Family Experiences:
  • Their mothers each had different, difficult relationships with their father (Raymond), leading to secrecy and tension ([04:37]).
  • Early attempts at connection were hindered by unresolved pain between the parents and fear of disruption.

2. Dealing with Absent and Flawed Parenthood

• Father’s Role & Legacy:
  • Both sisters reflect on limited or inconsistent relationships with their dad, describing him as kind to them as children but “complacent” and affected by his own demons ([07:08], [34:00]).
  • Discussions of generational trauma and substance use on both parents’ sides, and speculation on “why was he drawn to women with vices?” ([29:50]).
• Identity & Last Names:
  • Mikaila speaks about her “identity crisis” after her mother changed her last name, wishing to revert to Lowry when she turned 18 ([22:17]).
  • Both reveal baggage about their surnames, their struggle to belong, and the later discovery that “Lowry” isn’t even their biological lineage due to a family DNA revelation ([50:21]).

3. The Impact of Family Secrets and Adult Decisions

• Family Conflict and Reconciliation:
  • Both recount a period of five years where they stopped talking due to misunderstandings (miscommunication about a trip, misunderstood TV scenes, grief) and struggles to manage conflict healthily ([37:01]).
  • They see parallels with their parents’ inability to get along, saying old wounds bleed into new relationships.
  • Mikaila: “That experience with our father...I think it bled into us because look what we did. We did the same toxic behavior and stopped talking to each other for five years because we couldn't get our shit together.” ([36:43])
• Reconnecting:
  • The sisters describe reestablishing contact through birthday messages, with both feeling hesitant and fearing being blocked ([42:58]-[43:24]).
  • Realization: they’re closer now, having grown and matured emotionally in the intervening years ([42:44]).

4. Grief, Coping, and Compassion

• Losing Their Parents:
  • Both share their approaches to grief (disassociating, turning cold, not knowing how to grieve properly)—and emphasize the importance of forgiving themselves and each other for lost time ([38:18], [41:41]).
  • Discussion of their father’s death, ambivalence, and validation of different grief responses ([42:00]).
• Breaking the Cycle for Their Kids:
  • They feel a responsibility to “keep our shit together for the sake of our kids” so cousins can grow up together and not repeat painful family patterns ([63:13]).
  • Mackenzie: “No matter what your family situation looks like, you have to put all your personal feelings aside for the kids.” ([63:55])

5. Ancestry Revelations & Family Truths

• DNA Surprises:
  • Both took DNA tests and learned their dad was not biologically a Lowry, but a Morris, unraveling another family secret ([50:21]).
  • They grapple with relatives’ denial, the stories told to protect feelings, and the right to share their version of events: “That is our story. That is what happened to us.” ([58:21])

6. Reflections, Advice, and The Future

• “We’re Not Really Strangers” Game:
  • Sisters play a bonding Q&A, exploring perceptions, comparisons, giving and receiving advice, and lessons learned ([58:46]-[62:54]).
  • Both wish they’d grown up together, with Mackenzie expressing a newfound joy in being able to say “my sister” at all ([44:38]).
• Support Systems:
  • They discuss the importance of a “village” and commit to supporting each other moving forward, recognizing that asking for help is difficult given their upbringings ([65:18]).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Missing Out Due to Adult Failures
  • Mackenzie: “The adults couldn't get their shit together enough for us to have a relationship.” ([04:07], [36:35])
• On Longing for Family
  • Mackenzie: “I’ve never been able to say [‘my sister’] my whole life… I keep saying it just to hear myself say ‘my sister.’” ([44:38])
• On Generational Patterns
  • Michaela: “Look what we did. We did the same toxic behavior and stopped talking to each other for five years because we couldn’t get our shit together.” ([36:43])
• On Grief and Validation
  • Michaela: “Is it bad that I don’t feel anything at all [about our dad’s death]?” ([42:13])
• On Responsibility Going Forward
  • Mackenzie: “No matter what your family situation looks like, you have to put your… all your personal feelings aside for the kids.” ([63:55])
  • Mikaila: “I think following this conversation, we need to keep our shit together for the sake of our kids.” ([63:05])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:26] – Introduction; sisters begin sharing their family story.
• [02:25] – Discovery of each other’s existence.
• [04:07] – The impact of family conflict and secrecy.
• [22:17] – Mikaila describes her identity crisis over surnames.
• [29:50] – Patterns of addiction and family dysfunction.
• [36:35] – Grieving lost time, “should’ve grown up together.”
• [37:01] – Discussing their estrangement and reconciliation.
• [41:41] – Responsibilities and regrets in siblinghood.
• [50:21] – DNA revelations and the truth about their last name.
• [58:46] – Playing “We’re Not Really Strangers:” reflection and bonding.
• [63:05] – Key takeaway: keep it together for the kids.
• [65:18] – A renewed commitment to be each other’s “village.”

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is an unvarnished look at the pain of family secrets and the resilience required to build new bonds amidst past hurts. Kail and Mikaila open their hearts about longing for connection, working through dysfunction, and consciously rejecting toxic cycles for the next generation. For listeners, it’s a poignant reminder that healing is messy, but possible—and that hope can exist in the relationships rebuilt from what was once lost.

Transcript

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[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kayla, and you're listening to Barely Famous.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Welcome to Barely Famous. I'm sitting with my sister for the first time on this podcast and I' so excited because I think that people want to hear about things from your perspective. How we met, how you found out about me. If you ever watched Teen mom before we met, or I guess 16 and pregnant.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

And then obviously we have to talk.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

About our dad dying. So we got to talk about lots of things today.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'm ready.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. All right. So first, how old are you? You're 29?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, I'm 29.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'm 33. So we're four years apart. And according to Raymond, we weighed the same when we were born. Yeah, what was it?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It was like 6.5 or something.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

8.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

8.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

8 pounds. I'm a big. You thought I was 6 pounds?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I thought that's what we were.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, 8 pounds, 5 ounces.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That's how big we were.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, we were big babies.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Likely.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It was 81. Oh, wow.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. Lincoln was the closest. He was 86. Okay.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So. And then I found out about you around 12 years old. I was like 12. Got in a fight with my mom's husband at the time and he said. And he said something along the lines of like. And that's why you have a sister that your mom never told you about.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I never knew until you added me on Facebook.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Are you serious? I probably got Facebook. I was in high school, so I mean, I was probably a junior or Senior in high school. When I added you on Facebook, I'm.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Trying to think of, like, how old I was. I just know it was like, summer, you added me. My mom told me to delete it, so I did out of respect. And then you added me again because.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You know how on Facebook, it's like, you don't know if they declined it or if it didn't go through.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I was like, what the. Like, it must have not gone through.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, it did.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I just. And you were like, I'm not allowed to do it.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I. I told my mom. I was like, who is this? Because Lowry's a last name. She kind of looks like me. Like, no one had ever said anything. I always had a feeling I. There was, like, some other part. Not of the story, but, like, feeling like I had a sister or something or some other sibling at least. And so I was like, why does she kind of look like me? And she just shut it down immediately, Which I get it. Not having a good relationship with, you know, our father, but I don't know. I just never think that you should do that to your child, because how many years did we miss?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, that was when we went to go see Raymond in September. Was it the September?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That was the one thing that. I don't know if you remember me saying it to him, but I was like, the adults couldn't get their shit together enough for us to have a relationship. I think, like, in some ways, it was upsetting to my mom. I don't know if my mom knew the relationship between your mom and our dad, but if it was better than what my mom had with him. I think it was one of those situations where, like, in my mom's head, she justified it basically being like, well, he's there for her and not for you.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I can guarantee you. I think. I'm not trying to discredit your situation, but I think ours was just completely, like, different, because I don't think. I'm gonna be honest. I don't think. I think both of them had a very toxic relationship, but in different ways.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Agreed.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

My. From what I understand what Raymond disclosed to you about some of the questions, he was not being honest, and I think it's because we weren't the only ones there.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Wait, really?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. Like, so I don't think that he has never been physical, and I don't think. I know he has never.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay, but to your mom. Not necessarily.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That's why. That's what I'm saying.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It's possible that he Was never violent with my mom.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I. I don't think. I think for him. I don't see him as a violent person. Okay. I think it's situational.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Right? Of course.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Not that it's right. It's not right by any means, but I just think that from stories I've heard, from things I've asked about, like, to my mom, when she was alive, like, her face just. It looked like someone was holding a gun to her head. Like, it was. There was nothing. Like, I would be surprised if there wasn't that physical aspect. So I understand why she didn't want to say anything. I mean, it's like one of those things. Do you want to involve that part of someone's life if they're fine without it? Because her fear was that you were gonna come into my life and he would, too. He'd follow.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Okay.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So she did not know what my relationship was with him. No.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No. And then. But once she met our Aunt Susie.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Not my mom.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

A different Susie. Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She started feeling better about it, and.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That'S whenever we could start having a relationship. So did you know. When did you start asking questions about who your real dad was? Because you remembered him when you were. You saw. The last time you saw him was when you were five?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, I think it was. I just kind of gave up on asking questions. Whenever you ask enough and you never get answers, you just stop asking. So.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So were you asking, like, after the last time you saw him at your fifth birthday, were you asking, like, where is he?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Did he go to the store?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No. You didn't ask?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, because it was. His relationship with my mom was always in and out. So it's like, one day he. Because I remember, like, that's not the only thing I remember about him. Yeah. I remember, like, being in his truck, going for rides with him. And this is back in the day where, like, you could throw your kids in the front seat. Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And it didn't.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, it didn't matter. And so, like, I remember. I remember enough to where it's like, I wasn't that curious. I remember the tattoo he had. Like, I just. The memories I had of him. Extremely positive. Because when you're a kid, that's all you know. Yeah, that's all you know? And so I just didn't feel like I needed to ask. Like, I always kind of said as a kid, okay, so whenever I go to his funeral, it's like, I already had in my mind that I would never see him again because my mom was so anti. So I just didn't ask questions I didn't want to. Like, Like, I told him whenever you were there, like, I'm just not a curious person. Like, if it doesn't, like, it directly affects me. Yes. But nothing about the questions I ask is going to affect me as a person. Like, my outlook on anything.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Right.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It, like, it's. It's kind of. It's like. I know it's hard to, like, understand saying like that, but I don't know if something's not gonna directly correlate to anything, like, moving forward. I just, I don't care, but.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So you knew about your. Our dad, but you didn't know about me? I knew. I found out about my dad. I started. I think I started asking questions about him between 10 and 12, somewhere around there. But I knew about him to the point where I was searching for information. I was like, digging through my mom's closet, and that's where I found information about him. And then my mom and I was arguing with my mom's husband, and he used it against me that there you were. Like, he knew that you existed. And at that point, I didn't have a computer, I didn't have social media. I didn't have anything. And so it wasn't until high school. But like it when I tell you that I looked for you and our dad from the time I found out about you guys until I graduated high school, like, I never stopped looking. And Michaela will tell you guys, like, I. I think I was 18 and I tracked down. I found out that you had a brother. This was after I went to go meet Raymond. On 16 and pregnant.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, you didn't. You didn't track down him. You tracked down his best friend.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Right, Right. But I found out how I did that was I went to go meet our dad. I met him in 2009 for the first time ever in my whole life. I met him and. And he told me you had an older brother. When I learned that you had an older brother, I. At his house in, In Waco, I was like, well, what is his name? And he told me, and he told me the first and last name. So then I was searching for your brother on socials and came across his best friend. So then I reached out to the best friend and I didn't hear back from anybody. I don't think, I think he might have told me, like, he would be willing to try, but he didn't have any promises for where it would go. I think that's sort of where it was. If I remember correctly. And then I want to say I talked to your brother maybe.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, he's, I think, very protective over the situation. He. I'm sure he remembers a lot because he was older.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I mean, he's older than me.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, he.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So we're four years apart, and then your brother was born.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He's. My brother's five and a half. Like, we're five and a half. Okay, so he's born in 90, but.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So he's two years older than me. So he's. I would imagine he was way more protective over you.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, so. But that's the thing is, like, I think he saw part of that toxicity, and I think that shapes you as a kid. I mean, like, we. We know, like, toxic situations, like, they're.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

They stick with you for life.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

They do. And someone in my family was telling me about, like, some things, like, she has, like, had seen, like, physically on, like, someone in that situation. I don't want to say who, but. And it was just. Just kind of heartbreaking to hear. Like, it's just. I don't think he wanted to let that part in at all.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think that's all valid. Like, I never held it against you, your brother, your mom, anything. Like, I got it. But once your mom felt comfortable and I got to go hang out with you and your mom and your stepdad and I met your brother, like, I think your mom probably felt better.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, my mom loved you, cuz.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Your mom was the sweetest lady to me.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, she. She loved you.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I. I didn't have any. Like, I. I think it probably made her feel comforted that I didn't have a relationship with him too.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, yeah. Well, I think it just e. Eased her fears. And I'm not trying to pin him out to be a horrible person. I don't think he was. You can be a. Okay person, but be in toxic situations, even if you were the cause of the toxic.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Get ahead of it.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

And I've been using Dimes, clean hydrating products. And honestly, they've made such a difference that I gifted them to a friend of mine, and I'm obsessed. The first time I heard of Dime, my sister asked me about their perfume too. So all of their products are really amazing. And being a busy mom, I need products that work at the right price. I want a budget. I also want to be able to recommend certain products to my children who are teenagers now. And that's why I'm loving Dime. They have everything from skincare, beauty, body care, and the viral fragrances that I've just mentioned. I have seven summers right here at my content house too, just to have it on hand. I also love the Don Le Bois and it's all over Tik Tok. So if you haven't see it yet, seen it yet. I'm telling you now. It's that good, warm, woodsy, and totally fall in a bottle. I'm telling you. Start with their hyaluronic acid serum, which is basically like giving your skin a big glass of water.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay?

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

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[Mrs. Claus (Advertiser)]

Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.

[Santa/Elf (Advertiser)]

This thing weighs a ton.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Brusky. Live with your legs, man. Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[Santa/Elf (Advertiser)]

He's talking to you, Bridges.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'm not that.

[Mrs. Claus (Advertiser)]

Of course he did.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Right, Santa, you know my elf, Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

[Santa/Elf (Advertiser)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

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[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

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[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Visit t mobile.com I don't think he was a bad person. I didn't even get that vibe, like, from him whenever we saw him. Yeah, I genuinely think he. I think I share a lot of characteristics of him.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Yes.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

The. The. Not the sort of like, nonchalant, like, don't give a. About. Like it is. What it is is. So, Raymond.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That you. That's a problem.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Yes, for sure, too.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, yeah.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

The same humor.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Because sometimes I'm like, was that a joke?

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Or like, what are you like.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know what. He's getting up. So there was a time that I went to Dallas and it was me, Bone Quay Sterling. I think Chris went like my ex.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

We went to the Cheesecake Factory. Oh, not the time. Okay.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

What happened at the Cheesecake Factory?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, I just remember I met Chris there. Like, I met Chris at the Whataburger.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

What?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think it was by the Cheesecake Factory. Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Wait, you've met. Have you met Joe?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I met Joe. Javi. Chris.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Did you meet Elijah?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You can meet him tomorrow.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'm down. But yeah, I met him at like. I think it was. We were either walking to the Cheesecake Factory or we were in the Whataburger parking lot.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I have no memory of this whatsoever. I was about to say that we were in Texas and, like, you know all my friends because I brought, like, they came to Texas.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I do know your friends, but, like, no, I met him in like, a parking lot.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You met Chris in a parking lot in Texas?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That's what I thought.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I. I believe.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Maybe it was Texas, maybe it wasn't.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't remember, but I thought it was Dallas.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Whenever. Remember that video on Instagram, the one.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Where you try to do a cardio? Yeah, yeah. We have that in common. That we could never do them. So that was definitely a genetic quality. Was that we can never do.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It was around that time.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

The first time I meet you, I flew to Texas and I met you. I think I was 19 or 20 because I already had Elliot.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, and the thing that annoys me, though, is I think people have this. Like, they just. I've Seen where they say that I only want to be in your life because of Teen Mom. I had. I did. I never watched Teen mom or sixteen and Pregnant before I found out about you.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Really? Because I was lying to people my whole life saying I had a sister named Melissa or Mackenzie.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like, it depends who you talk to.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, it wasn't until I found out and my mom even still was like, I can't remember if it's the Caitlyn or the. The K. Lynn. Like, she couldn't remember.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She couldn't remember who I was.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I think she got your name mixed up because she watched the show.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Your mom watched 16 and pregnant and Teen Mom.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, I didn't watch it until she told me. And then the only reason why I started was because I started on the episode of you meeting Raymond.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Did your mom let you watch it? Did she know you watched it?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So did you see me and you saw him and you were like, that's my dad. Or you didn't realize it was your dad?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He kind of looked different from my memory because.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. Remember when he looked like Alan Jackson? He didn't look like Alan Jackson when I met him.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I know. Yeah. And that's. I don't know. I just think that whenever I saw the episode, it was kind of hard to believe that that was him because he looked completely different. And then the meat freezer thing and then, and then I just think about your conversation about Dunkin Donuts.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Wait, so you were watching it, you didn't know it was your dad?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, I, I did after because.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But while you were watching it, in.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That moment, you know, it didn't click for me because he looks so different. If I was just watching it, I would have not. I've. I would have had no idea.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Did your mom say, that's your sister?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She was like. I said she was confused, which, you know, which one of you. It would be like her name wise. But that's whenever I started watching it and then I would. Because I wanted to know who you were. I mean, we spent how long not knowing each other?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know, I just. And, But I never kept up with it consistently. People would text me about it and I'm be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, I'm not watching the show and I try to keep up with it, but I'm very horrible with commitments like that.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So this is so fascinating to me. Okay, so you find out that I'm on tv, you see our dad, for the first time in a long time, I watched both.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I watched both. I watched both you and Caitlyn because I didn't know.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, interesting.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

There was a period. You thought that she might be your sister?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Kinda, yeah. Because my mom didn't know. Well, I didn't. I wasn't convinced.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay, okay, okay. But it was like, it could be.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, My mom was like, it could be her or her. I, like, I wonder how your mom knew.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like, did she watch it and she just recognized. She was like, that has to be Raymond's daughter.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know if, like, she did because she was a ucker for reality TV anyway, but I know that she kept up with the episodes. And I'm like, I'm. I mean, you could talk to me about this all day long, but I'd rather get my information from my sister, not the tv.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, yeah. This is. I. It's so fascinating to me because my whole life, I. I lied to people saying, well, I guess it wasn't. It didn't end up being a lie. Like, I had this picture of myself, and it was. It was like, I made it at daycare. Like, the daycare made it for us. And it was like this little block of, like, wood, and they, like, hodgepodge the picture on the keychain, and they, like, you, like, give it as a gift to, like, your mom or something. And it was me. And I, like, found it years later, and I was like, no, this is my little sister. And I knew it was me, but I would tell people it was my little sister, like a pathological little liar. And I was like, this is my sister Melissa, or some people. I would say, this is my sister Mackenzie. I was not far off. Like, I really. Michaela is not far off?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I knew something was telling me I had a sister, but who would.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Have thought it would have. We would have had the same name in our names.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, and then that pissed me off, too, because my mom told me my whole life that she named me off of a. Like, it was like a name she saw, like a soap opera.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. My mom's was like Dr. Quinn or something like that.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She was full of. Because then I met you, and I'm like, we have the same name. There's no way. And you used to be a Lowry.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

What was that decision? Did you tell your mom that you did not want to be a Lowry? Or did your mom say, no, I was actually.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay, so this goes in two parts. So my mom, she wanted to change my name for one because of her being scared.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Fair.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And two, she wanted. What she told me was that she wanted me not to feel left out because she and my brother had the same last name due to her previous marriage. But that being said, I was very. I wasn't angered by the situation, but it made me have an identity crisis. Because when you go your whole life knowing that you are not something and. But having to still go by that last name, for me, it really messed with me. I hate it. I. I told myself when I was. When I turned 18, I'm gonna change my name back to Lowry.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Really?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. I really, like, because, you know, I just really had an identity crisis with it because, like. But I would never tell anybody. Like, no one would know. But then the information about us not even being Lowry's is. So it's a bigger identity crisis.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I feel like I still am fighting the identity crisis to this day.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Because I never felt like a Lowry. I had sort of the opposite feeling of you. Like, where I grew up in Honesdale, which I don't think I got to take you there yet. At some point. I'll take you. But where I grew up, everyone was Irwin, which is my mom's last name, and. And I had cousins that were my age, but I never grew up with them. Like they went to. We went to the same school, but I never grew up with them. I never spent time with them, I never was around them. And what? My one cousin, Ali Irwin was in my grade. Like, she was. I think she's april also. She's april92. So we were a month apart. And I never got to grow up with her. So I was so upset. I begged my mom to change my last name to Irwin. And she would be like, yeah, I'll get to it. Like, sort of like not saying no, but she never did it.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And then when I had Elliot, I was like, well, I'm gonna make him a Rivera, I guess. And my mom was like, no, make him a Lowry. But I was just so, like, I didn't feel connected to Lowry. And now that I have as many kids as I do, I. I always regretted naming Elliot Rivera because Joe and I were never married. And I knew as soon as I was pregnant, the first thing that I found, like, the first thing I said out loud was, what if I don't want to be with him forever? And I was with my friend when I said that. And so I don't know why. I don't know why I ended up giving him Rivera. Maybe I was hopeful that we would be together. Maybe I thought I would fall back in love with. I don't know. I regret naming him Rivera and I don't regret giving Lincoln Mary Quinn because I was married to his dad. But then the rest of my kids, they're all Lowry and it's like I always wanted to be in Irwin. So why didn't I when I had the opportunity to change my last name, change it to Irwin and then could be make my all my kids Irwin. And now that I found out that we're not Lowry's and our dad was not a Lowry is really upsetting to me because it's like I just, we just wanted to find a place to belong our whole lives. Like we didn't know our dad. I don't know if you felt this way but like growing up, like I knew it wasn't right that I didn't know my dad. Like I knew it wasn't right. I. Or did you sort of feel indifferent cuz you knew him a little bit?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know, maybe I knew him a little bit but like I never missed. I felt like my mom did an amazing job of making me feel like she wasn't the only parent she was to me, both mom and dad and I would tell her happy Father's Day and all that kind of stuff. So I don't think I ever missed him because there was nothing to miss where I had. She did such a good job of, you know, being that single parent that, you know, I, I felt like selfish missing him so I just chose not to.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

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[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I can't have the jitters.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I just want to help.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I wish that we could have grown up together and I told Raymond that when we saw him in September. Like I should have been able to spend summers with you. And I wish that I would have had a different story. But I. I'm less angry about it now. But I think from leaving Texas this past September to now, it's just like I still don't understand. Like I wish that we could have grown up together because at that point I would have had a different maybe connection with the last name. I would feel like I belonged somewhere. I would but my mom also didn't do a good job. I think she did her best, but my mom's. Just because it's your best doesn't mean it's good enough. And so that's sort of where I'm at with it, is like, my mom was battling addiction every single day. And so she did the best she could. Battling addiction, but, like, it's really not good enough, unfortunately.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, that kind of makes me, like, curious, because my mom had her vices like she did. And was Raymond just drawn to it because both of our parents struggled? Yeah. And him saying whenever he met, like, he. There was nothing physical. How do you have two different relationships? And I know he. At one point, I'm pretty sure. I think he had a drinking thing.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Did he?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I. I only ever remember him with a beer in his hand.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Fair.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I had my first sip of beer at, like, 4 years old because of him. Maybe that's just a Texas thing. I don't know.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But it could have also just been, like, the 90s, because I feel like.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

In the 90s, I'm regretful of it, but, like, it was such, like, a core memory of mine because it was all that I remember, like, associated with that. I, like, still remember that first taste, like, if that makes sense. And it's just. That's how, like, were you just drawn to addiction or, like, my mom wasn't, like, some drug addict or anything. That's not what I'm saying. But she was. She just had her vices. And some people struggle more with their vices, and I think that some people are drawn to that.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I just wish that there was some sort of communication between your mom and my mom at any given point, because.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't think my mom would have gotten along with your mom at all.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I don't think my mom would have gotten along with your mom, but if they would have just put their aside, they. We could have had a relationship.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think so, too. After hands were thrown. Because my mama would have thrown hands.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know if Susie would have.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But, like, my mom would have.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

They would have been mad at each other for the wrong reason. Reasons. Do you know what I mean? Like, it wouldn't have been, like, because I loved your mom like, she was. So I went to her funeral. Like, she was so good to me. I don't have anything to say, like, negative about her, but it's like, yeah, Susie was. And I say was, she's not. I. I don't know if she's dead, but what I remember of her being sober. She was really fun to be around. So, like, had you taken Raymond out of it, maybe they would have been friends, But I don't think they would have got along for the simple fact that Raymond was the common denominator.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. And I think their situations were just so different with him.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But what is interesting that you and I talked about in September was that your grandparents also had, like, pretty wealthy. Well, well off. Yeah, my mom's parents were the same.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I think it was like, almost the same situation too, because, like, my family at one point owned part of the town.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. So very, very similar. And I. It's so interesting to me that Raymond was able to pull both women for, you know, and. And our families were very well known and very like, well to do wealthy families. And both of them sort of struggled with some of the same things. And so it's really interesting to me. He must be drawn to it or like, maybe his picker was broken. And I was disappointed to find out that he was just joking about the Philippine siblings.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't think he was joking. And I. After that visit, I would argue that there's probably more siblings than just the Philippines.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He was married to someone.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I was just about to say that. I was just about to say he was married. So he had married my mom.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He's obviously a fertile person. Tell me, you can't tell me that we couldn't possibly have someone in Hawaii.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, we definitely do. And also our names were. Are like, the idea came from Hawaii. Yeah, but so he was married to someone in Alaska and how many times. Wait, no, I'm sorry. He was married to someone in Hawaii. Yeah, he was married to her. He was married to my mom. He was with your mom. And then his life partner that he was with while he was. When he passed away.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Do you think our names are the way that they are because he was still in love with his first wife.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Because she was Hawaiian. Yeah. No, that's such a. That's such. I bet you he was in love with his ex wife, or I guess she would have been before my mom and before yours, obviously.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

See, and that makes me think, like, he. I know he wasn't incapable of love because I felt love from him whenever you did. I did. I felt a lot of love from him whenever, like, I was around him because he might not have treated my mom. Well. I didn't see that, though.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You only saw how he treated you.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And that was a way that I feel like a dad should have treated Someone.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So he was good to you?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He was very good to me. I think he really loved you too, because he wouldn't have pulled you out of that hospital if he didn't.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

True.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think he knew love, but he knew, like, he was really, like, he knew where to put his energy. I don't think. I think he was smart enough to know to not put his. His love into toxic situations. Kids can't be toxic. They're. Kids are born innocent. For him, I feel like we were innocent. And I don't. I don't know. I think. I think he was. I think we could have had a awesome life with him. I don't think it would have been, you know, the picture perfect life because, you know, his situation. He obviously. I don't think he valued himself because if he did, he would have tried harder.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I would agree with that because, I mean, he. He knew it well enough to go get two degrees. Yeah, he had two degrees. He joined the military, but.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And he didn't. Just four years and out.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But it. I just, I guess I can't understand the complacency, but some people are just complacent at the point that your. Both of your kids are taken from you and you don't have them anymore.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But I don't think he thought he deserved it. Anything after. After us, I feel like he.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He gave up.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He gave up. I mean, wouldn't you.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, just like, why would you. Why would. Why would you keep going at that point? You're like, what am I supposed to do? Keep putting like, pouring all of my self into this and getting nothing in return? Like, I get it now and I don't fault our dad for it at all because, like, I sort of understand his perspective. I just wish that, you know, like, today I forgot my makeup and we're.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

In Philly and I forgot my makeup.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And we're sharing makeup. Like we should have been sharing makeup this whole time for the past 15 years. We should have been sharing and talking and calling each other and I should have been flying out when you had Blakely. Like, that should have been our relationship from day one. But instead I meet her when she's what, seven years old?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, you first met her at nine months at my mom's.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Right, right.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But then officially, like, officially. Yeah. Six.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Six years old. And it's so. It's so interesting to me too, because. And I said this to Kristen and Alessandra. I obvious. I know I met her at your mom's funeral, but she was a baby.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So it Was. Was just in different circumstances, of course, but like, when I finally met her and, you know, she's six and just runs up to me, it was just like an instinctual. I could cry thinking about it. Like. Like an instinctual love for her right away that I can't describe to other people and like, maybe that other people know, but I have never known.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

An instinctual love for another child. I don't really like kids, so.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Like.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Just the first day ever meeting her, you know, when she's older.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like this instinctual love for my niece and like, it's not fair that the adults couldn't get their together enough for us to have had a relationship far before we started it.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, that's the thing is, like, I don't. I think that that experience with our father, you know, and everything, I think it bled into us because look what we did. We. We did the same toxic behavior as we stopped talking each other for five years because we couldn't get our together. Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Can we talk about that for a second too? I don't. I. I feel like I remember people posting about us not talking. Michaela was supposed to visit Delaware at. At some point and she got bit by a dog.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And you texted me about it, and I was upset that you couldn't come, but it was like, no, not really. It wasn't like, overall a big deal. Right. But MTV had asked me to film a scene with somebody about it. And you thought I was laughing at you.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I actually had people in my ear, texting me, egging me on.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I wasn't laughing about you.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

What?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I was laughing.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I wouldn't have been offended if you were like.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, but it wasn't that. Like, I was more uncomfortable with the fact that, like, they made me do this FaceTime call with him and my, like, my friend was in the basement, so it was like, more like, oh, my God, we're doing this FaceTime. This is so. Like, I was more pissed off about that than I wasn't.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like, I was annoyed because I was like, obviously I wanted to see you. I wanted you to come to Delaware also. They wanted to film it. And so then when there's pressure of them wanting to film it, it was like, oh, my God, she got bit by a dog and now I have to film this FaceTime. It was more like that. And so we didn't talk. And then I remember there was something when you reached out and we argued about, like, Blakely had hives or something and I, like, didn't follow up to check up on her or something. And so, yeah, it was just.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I was in such a bad mood.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So was I, though.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, but. And that's the thing is I think, like, so I was grieving my mom and I'm really bad about disassociating. And when I disassociate, I turn extremely cold. I burn relationships.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

We have that in common. Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

My engagement almost didn't happen because of it. Like, I was that cold. And it wasn't intentional. I just don't know how to grieve properly. My first instinct is to disassociate.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Right.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I kind of blame myself because.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I blame myself too.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I. No, no, because you tried to let it go. That's the thing.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You literally. I remember you telling me multiple times, let's just agree to disagree. I said, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Sounds like me though. So I would have been like, if it was the opposite, I would have done the same thing. But.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But then that's where I kind of fault it because if I. If we could not have gotten our. Together, like, if we could have, have. We could have been involved in every single. Every single, like, child, obviously. I met Lincoln. I met Elliot. And I think after that we just stopped talking.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Have you met Lux?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, he's.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

He's crazy. But you'll love him. I. There was just something. I don't know. I. I think because we were just both triggered.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Now we can talk about O Positive.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. I've had the privilege of working with.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

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[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

What should have been a normal fight.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, it blew up.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It blew up. And we just. It was easier to just completely disassociate and not talk because we didn't grow up together anyway. So it was like. It's not like you're in my life every single day. I'm not in your life every single day. But I think both of us were going, like, because I stopped being friends with. I want to say that was the same year I stopped being friends with Becky. I think I was.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, no, it was the same year.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I was not in a good place mentally. So I'm not blameless. Like, I wholeheartedly had a hand. Like, I didn't check up on you guys. I never. After you had Blakely, after your mom died, I don't feel like I did a good job as a sister in general.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't. I don't. I don't think after our dad died, I did a good job of checking on you, honestly.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Our dad.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I didn't have a relationship with that man.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I know, but I never even asked you how you felt because, you know what? What did you. You said, are you okay? After he passed away. I said, you said, are you okay? I said, is it bad that I don't feel anything at all?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You're like, no, I feel like that's valid.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, but I. But that's the thing. Even if it. Even if you feel the same way, I still should have reached out to you about it, too.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. But I don't.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No. Like, it doesn't matter.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I just have a lot of blame because I was the one that was like, no, absolutely not. I Am not going to agree to disagree. I'm not doing that. So I blame that on me. And, and I don't know, I feel bad because I really think that we could have gotten. I think we're closer now than we were before.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But I think that's because we both grew up so much within the five year period.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like completely different people. And I don't know, I think I was just angry at the time.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Why did we. How did we reconnect?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I reached out to you for your birthday and I think on my birthday you might have tried to tell me. And then you're like, oh, I didn't see this message. But I never even tried messaging you before because I thought you had me blocked on everything.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Because you're like, I changed my phone number.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, no, but you were like. You told me that you were gonna block me back.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like of course you did.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I thought. So I didn't even.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You told me you were gonna block me. And I probably did for like a day.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. So I, I just was like, okay, okay.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't remember. I don't remember some of that. I believe you cuz my memory is not great.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

My friend's not either.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I definitely remember reaching out to you for something. I think it's my birthday and I saw the message from you, but I had not seen it first.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, I know, I know. Cuz you were like, oh, I didn't see this before. Everything's fine. I think at that time you just didn't want to talk about the situation.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I mean, I don't love talking about it cuz we have to admit that we were up.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I don't. But it's just like I. I don't know. And I wish that there was a world where I could move to Texas and we could just be sisters and have normal sister relationship.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I would that have. I feel like that could go to one of two ways. Like we do have. We have I feel like the same personalities but also different. Very different. Like in certain aspects. So it's like it would have either made us hate each other.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

True.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Which obviously that's just siblings. Or you know, I think we could have been like best friends. But I feel like on the path we're going now, I feel like it looks really good, really optimistic.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't see that happening again.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It's so weird for me. Like I don't ever call you Michaela. I say my sister because I do too. Never been able to say that my whole life.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'M gonna cry again. And I didn't, like, I've never, I.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Was never able to say that.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like, I lied about it when I was like seven.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But you always wanted a sibling.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. And so like, being able to say my sister and like, actually have a relationship with you means something to me. And so I, it's, it's never like, oh, that's Michaela's, or like, oh, I'm gonna call Michaela. It's like my sister. I keep saying my sister just to hear myself say my sister.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, and that's why it kind of bothers me whenever people try to say that I'm want to be in your life for the wrong intentions.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't care even if those were your intentions. I was like seeking you out and trying to have a relationship.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, that. But that's obviously not me. I've like, I don't ask for that part of your life. I ask for what people don't see.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

My. Our whole side of the family in Texas. Well, like, we'll say Raymond's whole side has never actually my mom's side either. Neither one. I don't have the same experience where like family members reach out to you for it. Never on my mom's side or my dad's side. And I don't know if that's like, like a true testament to like the people that, that are part of my actual family. But I mean, even the Irwin's on my mom's side, like, never, ever, ever have reached out just to. Because I'm their cousin. All of a sudden you're reaching out because I'm on tv. They never did that. My dad's family never did that. Like, our dad's family never did that. The only people that do it is like friends.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, you should evaluate those friends.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But Kristen will, she's like, I told you about that one.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, I just think that whenever you are around people that actually truly care about you, they aren't going to do that. And I think the people that are like, if someone, if you're friends with someone that initially knew you only as the person on TV or the person on the podcast, in my opinion, I wouldn't even give that time of day. I'm an energy person and that is bad energy to me.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But as up as Raymond, like, and I say up, but what I mean is, like, he sort of just barely got by. Never once did he ever reach out and ask me for anything.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Cared about you. Like, that's a. I'm literally like, if someone cares about you. They're not gonna ask from you to better themselves. They will work on your. Their relationship with you. They don't want material things. There's a reason why I've never asked you for anything. I don't want that. I don't care about that. I don't care about the Persona that you have for other people. I don't care, Like, I think that you're a really good person. That that's what I want to show. Well, I, I. Well, that's the thing is people don't think. People think of you as this person on TV that was extremely edited, which is a big reason why I didn't even watch it.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Really?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Because you knew it was edited.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, every, like, whenever we first met, like, that the person on TV was not the person I saw.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It's so interesting.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I'm not saying that you were fake. I'm saying the editing was.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, I mean, which.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It's reality tv. It's got to be interesting. But, like, I don't. I think that maybe our side. I don't know. I don't think your success or anything is on anybody's mind. I don't even tell people. Like, I tell people that you're my sister, but I don't tell them, hey, it's the girl from Team Mom. It's the girl from the past podcast. I do not not disclose that unless you.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Did your brother know when I found him online?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Probably. Probably. I don't know.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I wish. Do you remember what friend it was that I reached out to?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

What's his name? Just his first name. Stephen. I. If I remember correctly. And if you ever talk to him, are they still friends?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

If you ever talk to him again, will you ask him? Because I feel like I don't know if I'm making up this part or if it, like, really happened. Like, I'm pretty sure he messaged back and said that he was going to talk to Spencer.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

MySpace. Right.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'm pretty sure. And he basically was like, I'm gonna talk to.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I could see it. He's a really nice person.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. But I don't know if I made that part up.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You know, like, what is it called repressed memory when you. Someone, like, basically, that's like, all my.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That's all my memories. So.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I'm like, I don't want to say that for sure. Happened.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I see it happen. He's a very good person. Like, he is like, he basically, without.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Fully saying it, he was like, I'm not promising you anything kind of deal.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, no, that sounds like him.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay, so that probably happened then. What's also interesting to me is like my mom's side of the family had never mentioned you and it was like it was always not spoken about. Like I didn't speak to other family members about my dad until I was an adult. But I'm just glad that we're here. And I. I just met Blakely for the first time when she wasn't a baby a couple months ago. Yeah. Yeah. But like love her so much I would take her as my own, like literally. And it's so weird because it's like in instinctual.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. I think her and Lux would be.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Be her and Lux and Creed too. Yeah, for sure her and Valley will have a good time.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh she would love it. And she was mad that initially that she didn't have a sister.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh well, cuz my sister's pregnant with a boy and that's so exciting. So. But what if you have the baby on your birthday?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'd be ecstatic.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You would?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I would. Cuz we need more Tauruses in this.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Lakely and I are both, both March babies. And then you and baby boy will be April babies.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I don't have any kids born in March or April. So I think now we have something every month probably. Except for May.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Right?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

May and December. But every other month have birthdays. I think no car.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, my husband is December.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So before we move on to this game that I have no idea what it is, I want to talk about the DNA situation that we uncovered, if you will. Before our dad died, before we even knew he was sick, I took a DNA test on ancestry DNA and I also took a 23 in me. And then I told Michaela. You took ancestry.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Ancestry.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And then our dad's, who we found out to be half sister, took ancestry DNA as well, learned that her and my dad do not share the same father. Through this we learned that our last name should have been Morris M O R R I S. I believe it was just 1s. And the story is that. And this is all alleged. So if my family on my dad's side is listening to this, I'm trying not to ruffle feathers. But like this is also my story and Michaela's story. Allegedly Grandma Sylvia couldn't get pregnant. Found Thomas Morris and I'll just read the story. Hi Michaela. I don't recognize the man in the picture. I kind of suspect my uncle could possibly be your dad's father. I looked at your DNA numbers and percentage and was very close to another woman's DNA that also had an adopted dad and she knew my uncle's name but was just trying to locate him and confirm he was her bio. Wait, so does that mean that's a sibling? No, no, it's an aunt, right? It's my dad's sibling.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, I would think it would be an aunt. Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So he had other siblings.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, I didn't look at the updated DNA stuff though.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

My uncle was in between marriages when your dad was born and my dad told me that my uncle was seeing a woman and said her husband could not have kids and she wanted to have a baby. So it's a possibility that our grandmother couldn't get pregnant and this man got her pregnant and then she went back to her ex husband at that time.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Now we can talk about Rocket Money.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Because I am budgeting.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

From October 1 to February 1 is my budgeting season. I'm trying to save to put as much down on this new build as possible. And I don't know if anyone heard, but I'm also opening Killer Sports, which is in Smyrna, Delaware and I'm so excited. But that would not be possible without Rocket Money and helping me budget where I started with. With Rocket Money, I started canceling my unwanted subscriptions, ones that I forgot about, trials that ran out, whatever, and I.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Was able to put in an in.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Ground pool at my house when I built it. So that was amazing. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bill so that you can grow your savings. And Rocket Money shows you all of your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. If you see a subscription that you no longer want, Rocket Money will actually help you cancel it. Their dashboard lays out everything so you have your total financial picture, including bill due dates and paydays in a way that's easy to digest. I don't know if anyone else is new to like the financial literacy our parents didn't teach us, right? So we have to figure it out some way. And Rocket Money is a great place to start. They'll even try to negotiate to lower your bills for you.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I love that.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Rocket Money has saved users over 2.5 billion, including over $880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. They're 10 million members save up to 740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features, which is a game changer Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to Rocket Money.com famous today. That's Rocket Money.com famous Rocket Money.com famous.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

According to our aunt Susie, she was never in Houston, which I find it hard to believe.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She could have also just got the city wrong. Wrong. The city could have just.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But it's also like, come on, everybody has been to Houston at one point. If you live in Texas.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, true.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So and what if, what if she just didn't tell her husband?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You know, anybody could have said Houston just to say Houston, but also this woman because it's like a third hand story. It is very possible that it was Waco or Dallas or Fort Worth and she just got the city wrong. Yeah, like, I mean I could tell you right now. My mom told me my dad was from Arlington, Texas. My whole life it she.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

She was right.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

It was Texas. But maybe the city was wrong. You know what I mean?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But it's still kind of close though.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. So like to me the location is less important. But.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That'S like a pretty damning story right there though.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

To me this is the most logical. Some variation of this because our grandfather, like whom our dad thought was his dad, he was named after. So it's Raymond Guy and Raymond Glenn. Our dad being Raymond Glenn. Raymond Glenn also had a brother named Derek who messaged me. And Derek is not their biological fa. Is not their biological brother. He was adopted by Raymond Guy, but it was really his wife's child's child. So I think it was either his step grandson or his stepson. Like it was just like a weird. Derek is not Raymond Guy's son, but he grew up thinking he was was our dad's brother.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'm just really kind of confused of.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Is our aunt Susie is Raymond her dad?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She says yes.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. How if he could not have kids?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, that's why she's saying that that's a lie. Cuz she's saying he obviously could have kids since she was one of the kids.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay, but if he did that with. If she did that with Ardon, why would not aunt.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And they were only a year apart. Like Raymond and our aunt were in the same grade.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I just find that a little hard to believe because that's where I've been very confused. Because if you have like, I know sometimes like fertility issues come from like what you're eating, how like what vitamins you're taking, like simple things can fix it. I know for a fact and.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Don'T think it's this case.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She thinks that our grandmother was raped. I, I personally don't believe that.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't either. Because back then we couldn't. Women could not have their own bank accounts. Right? They did not. I doubt she drove, I doubt she had her own car. But this was in the.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

50S.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, 50s.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And the story was that she was married to Raymond Guy.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Everything had to be approved by the man.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So we had married, divorced, and then remarried. I personally, it's my opinion that she wasn't raped, but she said that Raymond Guy told her that the. That her mom was raped and that's how she got it.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Might have been the story that made him feel better.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That's where I'm at. I'm at the point where grandma wanted a child pop up, couldn't give it.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

To her, but he probably wanted it too.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Doubt. No doubt. Yeah. She stepped out and all of a sudden pregnant.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, that actually happened a lot. A lot. And some people did like two, three times.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

The story that I got from that same woman on ancestry was that he was a willing participant to give her a child. And I believe that because it was her first child, it wasn't like it was her second or third or fourth. You know what I mean? Like it just. All of the pieces are not adding up. But unfortunately, Thomas More Morris is also dead, so I can't. There's no way to verify from him what his retelling is. But we do know that that is biologically our grandfather.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Do you have the same ancestry? Like people like matches pop up on ancestry that you do 23andMe. Like, no. Is there more on 23andMe?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I have found because I don't have that 23andMe. A lot of my mom's side is on 23andMe and a lot of my dad's side is on ancestry, which is really interesting. But I would say for you to do 23andMe anyway because there's like a health component to it. But it's really upsetting to me because it's like the proof is in the pudding. Like we can lay it all out and like some people choose not to believe it. And that's what's really frustrating. It's like I know that if she hears this she's going to be upset, but it's also like that's our story. Like that is what happened to us. And so like I could understand why it would be upsetting cuz like she has her own beliefs and I'm not knocking her for it. Sometimes you just have to let them believe what they want to believe so that they're happy. Happy. Like, I don't.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

But it shouldn't dissuade you from letting other people know the truth too, right?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like with Raymond, I would have wanted to know. But also, maybe he wouldn't have died at peace though, either. So that was like the other thing where it's like he maybe was at peace with us being there.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And so he felt comfortable enough to let go had we dropped that bomb on him. And he would have died with no peace. Like, that would have also not been great. So it's like, hard either way.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

For sure.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay, let's play this game. I don't know what it is, so we're just gonna wing it together. It's called we're not really strangers. Okay, so step one. Perception.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Do I seem like a morning person or a night owl?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Why can I say both?

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I just like, I know that you have to be up because you have kids and that's just how it works. But I feel like you're. You're gonna go to bed at like 9 o'. Clock.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't like to stay up late and I also don't like to wake up early.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, I don't strike me as either.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I like to go to bed early and wake up late.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I consider you a noon person.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yes, that is me for you. I feel like you're more of a night owl.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Are you really? I wonder why. Like, you don't mind staying up, but do you get up easily in the morning?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You're not a morning person.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

My husband has to call me to wake me up and he. Effie's home because he works nights.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

If he's home, he has to wake me up because he knows I'm gonna press news. Oh, yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I'm gonna press news at least three times.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, well, I have like 10 alarms, so.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Do you. Do I remind you of anyone? No, you remind me of me.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, yeah, that's what I was. Yeah, but like, of anybody else?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, no, absolutely. Like there's nobody like you.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, absolutely not. I think you're the nicer version of me.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Me? I'm nicer than you. I would argue. I mean, I can.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I can be nice. Don't get me wrong, but I think I hit com confrontation head on.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. And I don't.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And you're just nice about it.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't like confrontation. My sister will just say exact. You're like.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

You know what?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I take that back. If there's one person that you remind me of. It's Sterling. Okay, Because Sterling, if she doesn't like something, she's saying it. Right?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She's way more vocal than me, though.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. Not way more, which is so funny. Michaela has known Sterling for many, many years.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

2011 is when we met.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I met her in 2013. Okay, so I've known you as almost as long as I've known her. She will say exactly what she to anyone.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And she doesn't sugarcoat it either.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, she does not.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

What you see is what you get.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yes. So I. I sort of see that in you with the confrontation thing. Not that she's, like, trying to start confrontation.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, I don't either, but I'm not afraid of it. Like, for sure.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

If you could have it your way, who would you be with, where would you be, and what would you be doing?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

In what kind of way?

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I have no idea. I'm thinking this might be for lovers.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, I have a husband.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay, so hold on. I'll pick a different one. I'll pick a different one. Are you lying to yourself about anything?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think I lied to myself for a long time that I was nice. Okay. I'm not. I'm not mean, but I can be mean. But, like, I'm not as nice as I thought I was.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And evidently it's not just one person told me that.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So I'm the opposite. I think I'm nicer than I like.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think you're nice. Nice.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, but I thought I was a lot meaner.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I thought I was nicer. So, yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Okay. The level three is reflection. What am I most qualified to give advice about?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think you're really good. Like a good mom. So I think parenting advice, you're.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

I don't.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I don't know.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Some people would disagree, but I think.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You would be good to give advice on. You're like Kristen in the sense that you. Your husband works nights. You could give good advice on how to navigate having your partner work nights, raising a child. And also, honestly, like, family dynamics. Like, you could give advice. Like some of your. No, I guess not. Perception. Like, some of your ideas of how to handle the grief and loss of our dad when we didn't really have a relationship with him. I think is helpful. So I think you could give advice.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, I can separate, like, logic from emotion.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Really well, like, compartmentalized.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, 100. But no, I think. Think you. You would be, like, the first person. I think I've asked you for parenting advice before. Like, you Would be my first person to go to for parenting advice.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh, thank you. Thanks. What is a lesson you will take away from this conversation?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

We've kind of unpacked a lot here.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I feel like one hour was not enough.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think the moral of, you know, I think following this conversation, we need to keep our. Together.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

For the sake of our kids. And, like, because I want our kids to have a relationship, I want our.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Kids to think about when they go away to college, if they choose to go to college. Or, like, getting a job. Like, oh, my cousin goes here. Like, I can.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Or, like, when can we see them.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. Or, like, planning family vacations. Because, I mean, think about it. Blakely is right in between Lux and Creed.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And then Rio and baby boy are only gonna be three years apart. And then the twins and Rio are only two years apart. So to me, like, they could be in college together. We could go on family trips together. Like, I think that is the biggest takeaway is, like, across the board, no matter what your family situation looks like, you have to put your. All of your personal feelings aside for the kids.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. I mean, I think it affected us in both, like, parent wise, and I think our relationship at first.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I think that's the last thing I want for her.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. No, our kids should be growing up like siblings. They're first cousins.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Oh. Yeah. And it's like she wants. She wants everything to do with her cousin that she met one time in Houston. And so she's. I know she's gonna be a family kid, so I know the minute that she meets the twins and. Or the triplets.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

She's gonna be like glue. Like, she's gonna want to see them all the time. And I. I don't want to ever tell her no. I just want to be like, okay, well, let's find a time.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Right. Like, it's not. No, it's just, like, we have to.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Plan it, but that.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That's on us then.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yes.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You know, it's not just like, oh, we'll figure it out and then never talk about it.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No, I agree. I started this.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

That, like, me coming here.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

We had to talk.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, Well, I already told. I know you haven't met her, but my assistant, Rebecca. Was it you or was it my. It might have been both of you guys. I literally texted them, and I said, I need to figure out when you're due because I need to come down to help you with the baby, and I can take Blakely out to do something so you have one less thing to worry about. Or I could take the baby while. While you sleep. Like I was literally texting her, like, I need to figure out a time to go, even if it's in the summer, a couple months after he's born. So that you can go on a date with your husband and I can stay with the kids or like you can go sleep, whatever. Like that's what sisters are supposed to do.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And I. We didn't get that the first time around.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well. And I think that also we don't like. I think. I. I don't want to speak for you, but like, I know in my situation, like now I don't have hardly any. Like they say it takes a village. I feel like I don't have that much of a village. You know, my mom passed. Obviously Raymond wasn't in our lives. My brother, they got three kids, their own. You know, it's like I never like to ask for help. And I don't know if it's just because like we come. I come from a very, like a family where they're just. You're expected to do great things, but I just don't ask for help. And I think that has a lot to do with like why maybe we. I know that was your. Whenever we had that fight, like that was a conversation. Like you hate it that we never saw each other. It's just like, I don't. I. It's hard for me to be like, hey, let's find the time. Because for me that's like asking for help.

[Kayla (Podcast Host/Advertiser)]

Hope.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I know it's not, but it's like the same concept for me.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get that. I. There for a long time I felt like I didn't have like a consistent village. Like Kristen was like my village for 10 years. Like literally just her. Because it felt like it was just like a revolving door for a long time, like of people who. It was take, take, take, take, take. And so it didn't feel like a village in a real way. Bone was a big person. That was a village for me. Her sister would be kind of in and out. But like now I feel like I have a real village and I'm sure that they would extend that to you. So like if there was ever a time where you like were like, I just need help, like, we'll rally.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. And I feel like my brother's wife, my sister in law, like her family is kind of taking you in and.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Like taking you under their wing.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Because. Nice.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

We don't, we don't go anywhere for like, Thanksgiving or Christmas unless they invite us.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And we don't either. Yeah, like we're. Chris had invited us to her house, but we were like, we don't even know where to go. I don't have any of the kids.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, there was one time, like I spent it with my. One of my friends.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I was, I think last Thanksgiving or the Thanksgiving before that, I was in Texas. Yeah, I went to Sterling's for Thanksgiving twice. And it was just like this. I don't know. But we could be each other's village.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Well, for sure. I mean, I've spent Thanksgiving before. Well, I spent Thanksgiving.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I think that was like the first time I came up here.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Wait, did you meet my mom's family then? Yeah, that all fell apart. That all fell apart. They all have kids. The. The twins have kids and one of the twins had twins and you met all of them. But I don't have my kids on the same year at the same time as they do. So it's like, why am I gonna drive four hours, four and a half hours up here and the kids can't even get together.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah. It was a long drive, I remember.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And it was. It's even longer now because at that time we were still in Pennsylvania.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

So. But yeah, moral of the story is get your together so the kids can have. Have a life together that they deserve. And I promise you, they do not give a. About the parents drama like they. I would not have given one single. If both of our moms hated our dad. As long as we got to have a relationship, I would not give a.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

You have to put your kids first.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

No doubt. So where can people find you?

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

I have an Instagram. That's about it. Michaela, Cersei.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

And that's it. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming on Barely Famous.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Thank you.

[Mackenzie (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Yeah, see ya.

[Michaela (Sister, Podcast Guest)]

Bye.

[Santa/Elf (Advertiser)]

Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street Ted, the Expendables and so much more on Pluto TV. Stream now pay never. I'm Justin Sylvester. And I'm Blake Lee Thornton. Join us for yesterdays, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give them the queer love that they deserve. The things that got us riled up during dial up, those makeouts that should have been breakouts and the drops that were cemented in pop. I'm talking Bennifer, Tyra versus Naomi, Tom Cruise jumping on that couch and so much more. So please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or anywhere you get audio related content. We also take memo and cash app ach or credit card number as well. We're malleable, you know. We're gay today.