It Ends With Us Legal Drama Breakdown With Rebecca

Summary

Barely Famous Podcast Summary
Episode Title: It Ends With Us Legal Drama Breakdown With Rebecca
Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Becca Friedman from OK! Magazine
Release Date: January 24, 2025

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Introduction

In this intense episode of Barely Famous, host Kail Lowry delves deep into the burgeoning legal drama surrounding the adaptation of Colleen Hoover's beloved novel, It Ends With Us. Joined by Becca Friedman from OK! Magazine, the conversation unfolds the intricate web of accusations, lawsuits, and the impact on all parties involved, including stars Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, as well as author Colleen Hoover herself.

Background and Emotional Impact

The episode opens with Becca expressing her heartfelt connection to the source material:

Becca [01:18]: "Reading that book was super emotional and honestly helped me change my perspective. I even feel like I grew from reading the book."

Becca and Kail discuss their admiration for both the book and its cinematic adaptation, highlighting the profound themes of overcoming abusive relationships. They lament how recent controversies have overshadowed the story's original message.

Social Media and Public Perception

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the role of social media in shaping public opinion:

Becca [03:44]: "Is social media not right? Because when you remember when the premiere was on TikTok and stuff, and people knew that there was drama going on before it ever came out..."

Kail reflects on the swift nature of online rumors and speculations, emphasizing how platforms like TikTok can prematurely fuel controversies:

Kail [04:01]: "Tick Tock and... I'll tell you what. Tick Tock and. And true. I hate to call them sleuths because I think there's a negative connotation, but they're... they'll figure it out before it actually is confirmed."

Both agree that the rapid spread of information (and misinformation) on social media complicates the public's ability to discern truth from speculation.

Timeline of Legal Actions

Kail meticulously outlines the sequence of legal events:

• December 20th: Blake Lively files a CRD complaint.
• December 21st: The New York Times reports on an alleged smear campaign against Lively.
• December 23rd: Liz Plank leaves Justin Baldoni's podcast under mysterious circumstances.

This timeline underscores the escalating tensions and the immediate legal repercussions following Lively's allegations.

Allegations and Counterclaims

Becca dissects the core allegations made by Blake Lively against Justin Baldoni and others:

Becca [07:05]: "Non consensual discussions of her weight... Justin was trying to find out how much she weighed because he said he has back issues."

Kail raises ethical questions about workplace conduct and the responsibilities of production companies in maintaining a safe environment:

Kail [25:04]: "If someone brings up a conversation, a conversation that somebody else is not comfortable with, I need to make sure that as the owner of the company and I'm present, like, I have to make sure everyone's comfortable."

Impact on Colleen Hoover and the Adaptation

The hosts express concern over how these legal battles overshadow Colleen Hoover's work:

Becca [05:10]: "There is always going to be three sides to a story. What's he said, what she said, and then there's the truth."

They discuss how this controversy could set a precedent for Hoover's future projects, potentially affecting forthcoming adaptations like Verity and Reminders of Him.

Comparisons to Other High-Profile Cases

Drawing parallels to previous celebrity legal disputes, Becca and Kail compare the unfolding drama to the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard case, contemplating potential long-term career impacts for the involved parties.

Becca [48:15]: "I could see a world in which this both lawsuits get dismissed, and I see a world in which this turns into Johnny Depp and Amber Heard and it is detrimental to one of their careers."

Possible Outcomes and Future Implications

The duo speculates on various potential outcomes, from the dismissal of lawsuits due to lack of evidence to protracted legal battles that could further tarnish reputations.

Kail [47:25]: "I hope that the truth prevails in whatever that looks like for either of them or for both of them."

They also touch upon the possibility of documentaries emerging to chronicle the saga, similar to previous high-profile cases.

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

In wrapping up, Becca emphasizes the complexity of the situation, acknowledging that both parties may hold valid points while recognizing the challenges in uncovering the absolute truth.

Becca [43:26]: "And I do think that, wow. Justin may have a solid case against Blake in certain aspects of the lawsuit. There could be a chance that Blake could have a strong case in other aspects of the lawsuit."

Kail concludes with a hope for resolution that honors the original message of It Ends With Us while ensuring justice and accountability for all involved.

Kail [48:00]: "I hope that Colleen Hoover continues to get the recognition that she deserves for the book and for the movie. I hope to see Justin's cut one day just to see what the differences. And I hope that the truth prevails in whatever that looks like for either of them or for both of them."

Conclusion

This episode of Barely Famous offers a comprehensive breakdown of the multifaceted legal drama enveloping It Ends With Us. Through insightful analysis and empathetic discussion, Kail Lowry and Becca Friedman shed light on the intricate dynamics between celebrities, the influence of social media, and the enduring impact on literary adaptations. The conversation underscores the delicate balance between personal integrity, professional responsibilities, and the quest for truth in the public eye.

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Notable Quotes:

• Becca [01:18]: "Reading that book was super emotional and honestly helped me change my perspective."
• Becca [03:44]: "Is social media not right?"
• Kail [04:01]: "Tick Tock and... they'll figure it out before it actually is confirmed."
• Becca [07:05]: "Non consensual discussions of her weight... Justin was trying to find out how much she weighed because he said he has back issues."
• Becca [05:10]: "There is always going to be three sides to a story. What's he said, what she said, and then there's the truth."
• Becca [43:26]: "Justin may have a solid case against Blake in certain aspects of the lawsuit..."
• Kail [47:25]: "I hope that the truth prevails in whatever that looks like for either of them or for both of them."

---

Attribution:
This summary was generated based on the transcript provided from the Barely Famous podcast episode "It Ends With Us Legal Drama Breakdown With Rebecca," released on January 24, 2025.

Transcript

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[Kale]

Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're listening to Barely Famous. Today I have a writer from okay. Magazine. Becca, welcome to Barely Famous podcast.

[Becca]

Thank you for having me.

[Kale]

Yeah, of course. So today we want to talk about it ends with us, Colleen Hoover, Justin Baldoni, and Blake Lively. And I loved the book. I loved the movie. There's a lot of drama surrounding this. What's your take on it? Where are we at?

[Becca]

I also was a huge fan of the book and movie. I mean, now obviously I watched the movie back a second time recently and it makes you look at it differently and it makes you question and stuff. It makes me sad because of how much I loved the book. And reading that book was super emotional and honestly helped me change my perspective. And I even feel like I grew from reading the book. So it to me makes me sad that this story has now this whole other side to it and it's taking away from like the true themes and meanings of the book. And now it's all about these a list celebrities and the whole idea of he said, she said instead of the true. Like women's, women's lives were changed from this book.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becca]

And people walked away from abusive relationships. People. And even after watching the movie, people came out and said, like, I finally was able to leave. And I just wish that the story could just stay focused on that.

[Kale]

Right. And I will say that Colleen Hoover and her books have. They were a huge reason that I got back into reading because I think one of the first books that I read was a Colleen Hoover book.

[Becca]

Me too.

[Kale]

You know, to sort of jump off on my, on my reading journey. And so that's really important to me. But also being a survivor of a domestic, of domestic violence myself, I really resonated with the story. And so I actually went to see the screener with my best friend who had not read the book. And we both Cried at the movie the first time we saw it.

[Becca]

Sobbed.

[Kale]

I hate that Colleen Hoover's first adaptation is sort of clouded by all of this. And I was saying too earlier, I don't know where the line is. Right. Because Blake deserves a voice, Justin deserves a voice, but Colleen Hoop. This is a huge moment in Colleen Hoover's career. And so that's really sad because this, the book and the movie have such a strong message, such an important message. And I want to get into like, the timeline and I feel like this all happened so fast.

[Becca]

Yeah. And one thing I was going to say too is I think it's crazy how one thing we had been talking about before too is this whole idea of social media and are people on social media? Right. Should we believe everything we see on social media? But then there's this whole other thing of was social media. Right. Because when you remember when the premiere was on Tick tock and stuff, and it was blowing up and people knew that there was drama going on before it ever came out. People saw Blake and Justin acting weird at the premiere and the whole Internet knew. So it's like, is social media not right?

[Kale]

I'll tell you what. Tick tock and. And true. I hate to call them sleuths because I think there's a negative connotation, but they're. I mean, they'll figure it out before. Right before it actually is confirmed. And I feel like the Internet can do some wonders with that because I. When other people caught on, I didn't catch on to that. I just don't have the eye for that. I was shook when people were making these, like, allegations or like, having speculation surrounding this because I was like, why are you guys turning something into something it's not? I just didn't. Maybe, maybe they weren't really friends, but that's all I. That's the conclusion I to was like, maybe they're not really friends. They just work together and that's the end of the story.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

But people really speculated what was going on before anything happened. I. I think I was late to the game. Like, I had no idea that there was drama.

[Becca]

So when I first saw. Because obviously I was covering the premiere, I was covering what Blake was wearing when she wore the Britney Spears dress, and I was covering all aspects of that. But then there's also these angles of, well, the Internet is saying something is going down, but then you can't just base. That's not factual.

[Kale]

But you know what? You're a journalist and I've been on tv, so we Sort of have a different perspective, and we see it through a different lens because we have that background. I think that the general public, who has not been in that same. Those same positions, see things through a different lens than we do. So we know to sort of take it with a grain of salt and maybe understand that right off the bat that there is two sides or three sides to the story where someone else might see things and call it for what they see it as.

[Becca]

Right. And I think that's a good point to point out. There is always going to be three sides to a story. There's what he said, what she said, and then there's the truth. And I think in this case, it's going to take some time for the truth to come out. When covering the premieres and stuff and analyzing that, my first. I didn't want to believe that. I was like, there's no way. There's drama. What are you talking about? The Internet's just being annoying again. Yeah. Like, just leave them alone. This is such a beautiful story. Just. I was literally, like. It felt like I was, like, hanging on the edge of my seat. I was like, please just don't touch this, Mom.

[Kale]

Let this go away so I can focus on the message of the world.

[Becca]

And I was just such a fan of Colleen and her story and her.

[Kale]

Her work.

[Becca]

And I was like, just, everyone, love Blake, love Justin. Like, just. I. Just for once, could we just all be happy and just let this film have the success it deserves? And then when these lawsuits came out, it's like, wait, no, this is really happening. As much as you didn't want to believe it or didn't want to believe that there was drama, now they're both saying, no, you guys were right. Honestly, like, I feel like the lawsuits are saying, no, the Internet was right. There's something going down. But now it's just about, I guess, finding out what went down and what side of the story ends up being right.

[Kale]

That leads me to my next question. I guess this is a general question just for anyone. Is omitting information lying? In this case, I would say yes.

[Becca]

I think omitting information makes a good case for saying that it's liable and saying it's damaging to your reputation, because what if that information's included? Then someone might have a different, completely different perspective.

[Kale]

I would be curious, though. We talked about. In the beginning of this episode, we talked about, you know, how the entire situation sucks for Colleen. Right. Professionally speaking. But do we think that all of this has made people go watch the movie? More.

[Becca]

I watched it again for a second time on Netflix after this all came out. Yeah.

[Kale]

Did you have a different perspective the second time you watched it?

[Becca]

100. You did 100.

[Kale]

Did you pick up on anything?

[Becca]

I mean it's crazy because it's crazy because this whole thing is about there's sexual assault accusations here and the whole part of the story and it's Justin's portraying this evil character, I guess you would say, like Ryle at the end of the day you're supposed to believe at the end of the day like he did things to hurt Lily and he did things. And now in real life, in real life Blake's saying Justin hurt him her. So it's kind of crazy to think about. And when watching the movie back again, I'm looking and I'm like, is what's Blake, what's Blake's emotions as she's acting as Lily? What's Justin feeling towards Blake as he's Ryle playing, like having feelings for Lily?

[Kale]

I look at clips from the movie and I think to myself, how were these two able to work together so closely when there was so much animosity between them during all of this or alleged animosity or potential animosity or maybe it was one sided and the other party didn't know how. I do think they did a great job. I loved it. But I do wonder how they were able to effectively do these scenes and have these intimate moments on camera and for the movie when they potentially felt like this about each other.

[Becca]

I think we have to also remember that these are two of the most famous actors, actresses in the world.

[Kale]

I had never heard of Justin Baldoni before this. I'll be honest with you. Is he on that? Yeah, I had, I had never seen him or heard him. So I heard of him in Jane.

[Becca]

The Virgin and he. Well, he's also a director. He's A lot of his credentials, I guess you would say are from directing too and not necessarily starring so more.

[Kale]

So, but like behind the scenes. I also don't know that I had ever seen. I knew who Blake Lively was, but I don't know that I had ever seen her act. I didn't watch Gossip Girl. I had never seen the Shallows. Is that a show?

[Becca]

Yeah, it's like a shark movie.

[Kale]

I've never seen any. I knew who she was. Oh no. You know what I saw?

[Becca]

Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants or the Age of Adeline.

[Kale]

No, I have no idea what that is. Okay, so I knew who she was vaguely. I didn't know she was as big as she is. And I'm not talking about physically. I mean her present. Like, I didn't know that she is as popular and famous as she is. And so I was like, I cannot believe this is even going on. Okay, so going back to the timeline, we have December 20th, Blake Lively files the CRD complaint. Then the very next day, the New York Times posts the report about the alleged smear campaign against Lively. Two days later, December 23, 2024, Justin and Heath's co is Heath, the last name of somebody. So Baldoni and Heath's co host on the Man Enough podcast, Liz Plank, leaves the show with no explanation. So that leads me to believe that she's probably thinking, oh, my gosh, she wants to. And I, these are all my own thoughts. These are nobody else's thoughts. I allegedly think that maybe she was like, okay, well, if Blake Lively is a victim in this, like, I can't support Justin, right? Like, I don't know that for sure. I don't know what her thought process was, but she leaves it with no explanation. Which I didn't even know he had a podcast.

[Becca]

Me either. And I think also, it's just such a sensitive topic. My brain, at least automatically went to the MeToo movement. And we're supposed. We. We finally, as women especially, created this whole movement where it's like, no, me too. And I, like, Blake, is accusing Justin of sexual assault. Your immediate thought is to believe the woman. And that's what we've been taught to, at least as a woman, to support other women and believe women and be a girl's girl. But then it's like, how can you know if it's true or not?

[Kale]

So she leaves it the next day, the very next day. And it came. Oh, it says it came days after Lively's complaint against Baldoni. So that's. I mean, that has to have impacted his. Maybe not his income, but the brand as a whole, which is sort of like defamation, I would say libel, slander. Defamation still falls into that sort of category. And then on Christmas Eve, 2024, we have Baldoni's former publicist suing him. Abel Nathan and Wayfarer. Stephanie Jones and her agency, Jones Works, llc, filed a lawsuit against him, his company, and then his current publicist, Abel, and crisis communication specialist Nathan in New York, December, 20. What's the deal with that? I don't think that I necessarily understood where the publicist came into it, because why would someone else then be suing Justin?

[Becca]

I think that has to do. And I. This, again, this is also my opinions and not. Okay, magazine's opinions and stuff. But I do think that might have to do with the whole smear campaign aspect of it and, like, how these publicists, it almost feels like they're playing chess.

[Kale]

Like, so did they think that Justin did it?

[Becca]

I. I'm assuming. I mean, you don't file a lawsuit without having a case, I would say. And so by filing a lawsuit against him, they must have thought that he bent the rules or.

[Kale]

It says, quote, defendants Abel and Nathan secretly conspired for months to publicly and privately attack Jones. And Jones works to breach multiple contracts and induce contractual breaches and to steal clients and business prospects. What does that mean? I'm not understanding. Like, I know what it means, but where does it fall into, like, into all of the drama?

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[Becca]

This wasn't the adventure I had in mind when you said, let's rent a car in Italy.

[Kale]

Relax. GPS says we're on track.

[Becca]

Wait, does that sign say Switzerland?

[Kale]

No, no, no. We should be near Sicily.

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[Kale]

Because then on December 3rd. On December 31st, 2024, Baldoni, Wayfair and others sue the New York Times. And in the lawsuit, the New York Times is accused of libel, false light, invasion of privacy, promissory fraud and breach of implied in fact contract for its article about retaliatory smear campaign. The plaintiffs. The plaintiffs allegedly conducted against Lively after she voiced concerns about purported misconduct. Misconduct on set. But who is. Who is in charge during this entire time on set? If there were issues on set?

[Becca]

So there was a. I'm pretty sure.

[Kale]

Actually, because if I just put your. Put yourself in Blake Lively shoes. If what she's saying is true and these horrific things are happening to her, I am no longer pursuing. I'm putting a pause on everything. And until everything is situated, we're not moving forward.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

I'm not going to and I don't want to. Victim shame. Right. So that's not an attack on her. But you think. You would think so.

[Becca]

It says on January 4, 2024. So that's back over a year now. Blake did address her concerns in an all hands meeting with the entire.

[Kale]

What were the concerns at that time?

[Becca]

In a text that Nathan sent Abel. He doesn't. Nathan says he doesn't realize how lucky he is right now. The whispering in the ear, the sexual connotations like Jesus Christ. And other members feel com. Uncomfortable watching it. I mean there's just so much so that is like so almost his own team admitting that he in admitting that he's allegedly doing this stuff.

[Kale]

Changing the scenes, you mean?

[Becca]

Well, this part specifically was about him whispering sexual connotations in her ear.

[Kale]

But how do they know what he's whispering? Just playing devil's advocate a little bit. Right. Like, I don't.

[Becca]

I mean, I. I guess it's happening on set. Maybe it's more than a whisper. I mean, maybe. I mean, I can whisper over here like, you're so sexy and like, you hear that, you know?

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becca]

So I feel like maybe it was like that.

[Kale]

Okay, so then we have December 31, 2024, which is what, three weeks ago? Four weeks. Three. Yep. Three weeks ago. Lively files a lawsuit against Baldonian Wayfair Associates. January 2. Baldoni's lawyer expresses Intent to sue Lively. I think this is where everything intensifies publicly, right. To. In the court of public opinion. Right. People went from being sort of on Blake's side to now switching over. And then this is where I feel it really intensified that people were like, okay, we believe Justin.

[Becca]

Yeah. And feeling bad for Justin because he.

[Kale]

What about Colleen?

[Becca]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Does anyone feel bad for Colleen?

[Becca]

I.

[Kale]

Is everyone looking at Colleen and like, okay, this is supposed to be a pivot. Pivotal moment in her career. This could potentially set the tone for the rest of her adaptations that are coming. We have. Verity is in. Is in the works right now. Right. And I think there's a. Regretting you is another one. I think reminders of him was picked up. So this is the first one that is going to set the tone. I just. I don't. Does anyone feel bad for her? Where are their thoughts in here? Where. I don't for both of them. And. And maybe they've reached out personally and privately. I don't know. But where is the. Just as publicly as you're destroying this for her, where is the. The public apology?

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

The public. You know, you feel bad, don't you?

[Becca]

It also gets confusing because then we have Colleen come forward in support of Blake, and then it's.

[Kale]

I think that was early on, though. And if you. If you were following the case really closely or the cases and. And all of this really closely. I did read. And again, this is all alleged. I don't know this to be absolutely factual, but there was something that I read that was talking about how Blake said that she would refuse to promote the film and the work if everyone was basically not on her side.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

So.

[Becca]

And how is that fair?

[Kale]

Again, this is Colleen Hoover's first adaptation, so she wants to support the actress, the main character of her story, and I don't blame her for that. I understand where she's coming from. And I think that, you know, everybody involved here really owes Colleen Hoover an apology.

[Becca]

I agree. It's hard, too, because I understand all sides. I did understand, especially from when this all started. I loved Blake as a actress. I loved the role she was in. I loved watching her on the screen. I don't know her as a person, obviously, but I. That doesn't mean I wasn't completely pleased with the way she was promoting the film. And I know that that was where a lot of the issues started. It was kind of like flowers and happ. Happiness. But Justin's over here, like domestic violence and this message of the film and being able to leave A toxic environment. But then I also can see how Blake was like, but this is about Lily being her own person at the end of the day and not just being defined by her domestic violence. And.

[Kale]

But it wasn't. To me, that's not how I took it. Right. It was. It's like the message is that you have. You. You can leave, you can get out of the cycle. You can. It ends with us. Right? Like, that is the message. Not about who she is as a person. It's about having the strength to leave a really toxic sit. I just wonder too, just from an ethical and moral standpoint, is at the point that you realize there is problem after problem after problem. And he said, she said on set. At what point? I mean, I understand there are millions of dollars involved, and I get that, but it had already been prolonged for so long and it had already had to stop because of the writer strike or whatever the case was. When there are this many issues and the allegations to this level, at what point did Sony have a responsibility to put a halt to all production because of some of these allegations? If what Blake Lives Lee is saying is true, then should the lawsuit as well? Because I don't know about anyone else, but I mean, I've been in, I've been on set before, and I've had people tell me, oh, you should sue them for that. You know what I mean? Because as a production company, as an entity, they should. They had a moral and ethical obligation to say. We have to pause here.

[Becca]

I do believe that Blake might have sued Sony, actually.

[Kale]

Well, allegedly on January 7, 2025, which as of the time of this recording was two weeks ago or one week ago. Sorry. Baldoni's team sends Disney CEO and Marvel boss a preservation of evidence letter in relation to Deadpool and Wolverine because allegedly Ryan Reynolds character was making comments essentially making fun of Justin Baldoni in his character of Deadpool. Nice pool. I. I saw. I read it online as Nice Pool. I didn't know if that was for. Because Deadpool might get flagged.

[Becca]

Deadpool, like, switches personalities throughout the film. Okay, so there's nice pool, there's kid pool, there's all these different pools.

[Kale]

Okay, so they were saying that he made comments in reference to whatever Blake Lively was going through on set of it ends with us. And so that's sort of what the extent of the timeline that I have, but in blank in Blake's complaint summary. I mean, it's long. There's a lot going on here. And to your point, she said in the complaint that she was being shown images of naked women, specifically a video of Jamie Heath's wife giving birth. Non consensual discussions of her weight. I did read, we'll say, speculation or allegations that this was in reference to an injury that Baldoni had. And so he had to ask for that reason. You know, I don't know if there's typical protocol for something like that, but maybe he didn't need to. I don't know if he did or didn't ask her directly, but maybe there's like a chain of. Like a sequence of events that need to occur for that. I don't know.

[Becca]

He allegedly texted or sent a message or spoke to Blake's personal trainer asking how much Blake weighed, because he had. There was a scene in which he had to pick her up, which Blake, I believe, alleged wasn't initially included in the script of him having to all of a sudden pick her up and stuff. And so now he was trying to find out how much she weighed because he said he has back issues. Okay.

[Kale]

And so at that point, if you have back issues and it wasn't initially part of the script, maybe remove it.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

Like, that, I will say, is like, I don't want to be asked how much I weighed by a man or a woman.

[Becca]

Right?

[Kale]

So for me, I don't want that in there. So at the point that you have a back injury, period, point blank, that is the end of that scene. You know what I mean? Number three is Mr. Baldoni allegedly speaking to Blake Lively's dead father, which it. You know, I didn't know right off the bat. Number four of, like, no. Two speaking. Two. Oh, like, in spirit. Okay. I'm not sure.

[Becca]

Interesting.

[Kale]

Number four is Blake Lively requesting that an intimacy coordinator be present on set during the scenes between her and Baldoni. No more improvised kissing. And that Mr. Baldoni and Mr. He not touched Lively, her employees, or other female crew members without their consent. Now, I did see where there was a conversation had about the intimacy coordinator. And Blake Lively, denying or declining, rather doesn't need an intimacy coordinator. And she was giving direction in a video. Right.

[Becca]

I remember seeing that go viral on Tick Tock up there. All of a sudden, she's saying she demanded. Demanded an intimacy coordinator be present. But then there's videos of her teaching or directing Justin how to be intimate. So it's.

[Kale]

And I think there was a screenshot of text messages where she's declining. I don't allegedly. Do your own research. An agreement was reached which included the following. No more showing nude videos or Images, including the producer's wife to Blake. No more mention of Mr. Baldoni's or Mr. Heath's previous pornography addiction. And that's in quotes. Or Blake Lively's lack of porn. Pornography as consumption. That's weird, right?

[Becca]

And then it's just like, why is. What does porn have to do with this movie?

[Kale]

It comes down to the conversations that are being had on set. You know, I own a company where tons of people are on set. We all talk about crazy things, right? But I always make sure that everyone's comfortable. If you. If someone brings up a conversation, a conversation that somebody else is not comfortable with, I need to make sure that as a, you know, the owner of the company and I'm present, like, I have to make sure everyone's comfortable. If nobody's comfortable, don't participate in the conversation and actually don't talk about that. So I think at what point were these conversations not being shut. Shut down when someone was uncomfortable, right?

[Becca]

And what more could the entire cast or production or crew have done before this movie went public? Before they had to show their faces side by side at the premiere, which they never ended up even doing, which I think only made things worse. And if it's true, Justin's alleging that he had to go into the basement at the premiere. And then there's whole. That aspect of things about he's the director and he can't have his. Like, that's his moment.

[Kale]

At what point was PR involved? Because I feel like PR handles a lot of this stuff or should handle all this stuff before it comes out. Because you have to almost think ahead from a PR standpoint, right? Because you have to understand that if there's animosity between characters or between actors and actresses, knowing that they're never going to be photographed together on a premiere or at a movie or at a promotion or whatever that looks like, you have to know that there's going to be speculation. So there also wasn't anything done there either.

[Becca]

I. One thing I thought, too, is when people were speculating and stuff, what if a statement was put out? Then what if there was just some sort of explanation from Blake or Justin of why this was happening and why they weren't on screen together. I feel a real conversation about that could have prevented the spiral of speculation. Of course, there's always going to be speculation, but when the Internet's confused, it just makes them speculate even more and it makes them form their own opinions. But then I was even going to ask you, as a personality and stuff, do you feel addressing problems head on even is helpful.

[Kale]

Not always. So there are certain times where I'm like, okay, the general public hates those. You know, when people are going to get divorced and they put out this like joint generic statement about irreconcilable differences or something so generic. And it's like, in a way, I understand them because they are basically calling a spade a spade. But without getting into the nitty gritty details, I do think that that probably could have prevented a lot of the speculation because it would confirm that there is in fact issues without getting into what they are. And I think that would have. That potentially could have saved the day.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

That's what.

[Becca]

That's what I was also thinking of. If they were just like, you know what?

[Kale]

We did get along.

[Becca]

There is issues between us personally. But at the end of the day, this film is beautiful.

[Kale]

Yeah, 100%. I think that they're. Without it getting lost in. In the sauce. Like the message of the movie. Colleen Hoover, all of that. I do think that. And, and. And that doesn't mean that that would work for every situation.

[Becca]

Course.

[Kale]

Because there are definitely. I've gone to my PR and I'm freaking out about something. They're like, actually, if you put out a blanket statement like that, you're like, you're actually bringing more attention to the issue and people will dig further for this. Specifically, we would be. We would have sort of an explanation without the details.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

And they could have handled that privately. But I think this was more. And again, don't misquote me when I say this. I think this was more battle of the egos.

[Becca]

Agreed.

[Kale]

And at the end of the day, we're getting the message lost.

[Becca]

And I do. I can't imagine what it would be like for. To have as big of a public presence as Blake or Justin and having all these public perceptions. I personally can't relate. You can relate to a certain level. Of course, it didn't feel good for everyone to all of a sudden jump on the Blake Lively hate train and stuff. Of course that must not have felt good for her. But is there a way she could have handled it better? Could she have had an open conversation with fans about why they didn't love the way she was promot the film and. And say, I hear you and understand. And not just continuing to post the number for the domestic violence hotline, but actually speaking directly to the people who are impacted and your audience. They're the ones at the end of the day that are watching this film and buying tickets to See the movie and buying a Netflix subscription to watch it on Netflix and buying Colleen's book to read the book. They're the ones that are making this film a success. And so maybe could she have that conversation?

[Kale]

Is that her responsibility as someone who never experienced domestic violence, or was that PR's responsibility to prep her and, you know, the training, media training on that specific. Should she have gone and done her research and sort of put herself, I don't know, domestic violence, talk to domestic violence victims and survivors and things like that? Like, was that her responsibility or was that her team's responsibility? Because she can only promote what she knows. If she's never experienced something like this, she's going to be out of touch for something like this. She can only post. That's all she can do is post the hotline. But I do think that it was mishandled. And whether or not Justin Baldoni was ever involved or experienced domestic violence in any way, I do think that he did a good job keeping trying to keep the message alive. And I think there was some sort of foundation or he donated. I don't know. I. I thought I saw something like that, but I don't know whose responsibility that is.

[Becca]

I also. It was just so evident and clear that there was just such a disconnect between them. And I just feel this should have been sorted out before that film ever got put into theaters, because it's pretty obvious.

[Kale]

I think it would have grossed the same thing a year later.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

If they would have handled the issue.

[Becca]

People were so excited for this story. Not because it was Blake Lively as Lily, not because Justin Baldoni was directing it. It was because Colleen Hoover wrote this amazing, incredible, impactful story, and people were. My mom was waiting outside with her Lily Bloom Floral Shop sweatshirt outside with her makeup done, ready to go to the film. It had nothing. She didn't even know who Blake Lively was. I asked my mom, I was like, do you know who's playing Lily? Blake Lively. She's like, who's Blake Lively?

[Kale]

No, I agree with you. And I, again, I still think that it would have had the same amount of success if it came out a year later and worked out all of this, because I think all of this could have been avoided. But that's not too. I don't want to blame Colleen Hoover in any way, shape or form, because I feel like once you get optioned for it sort of out of your hands at that point. And so I feel like it puts her between a rock and a hard place. Because definitely, you know, she wants to believe the woman, the person who is allegedly a victim. And then you also have Justin Baldoni coming forward with all of his side of it. And it's like, his side, her side and the truth. What do you do?

[Becca]

And then there was opinions online that I remember seeing of is Justin doing. Saying the opposite of what Blake's saying. 2 Make Blake look like the bad guy is. I saw that online. It wasn't my own opinions. I saw some stuff of was Justin being so pro, like survivors. And just because, you know, I did see that.

[Kale]

You know how Blake was like the lawsuits.

[Becca]

No, no. This was like when the film was first coming out, like they were promoting. I'm thinking about when, like before the lawsuits, when the Internet was first. Like, what is going on? Why do they hate each other? They clearly hate each other. And people were wondering, like, because Blake is the main character, Lily, and she's promoting it one way. People were wondering if Justin was promoting it the opposite way. To be spiteful or to make like for. And then that kind of goes to. That kind of goes to show of why Blake is like, there's this whole smear campaign. Because was Justin doing that purposefully?

[Kale]

He's literally promoting the message of the book and the story to begin. Like, to me.

[Becca]

No agree. And I think. I mean, even if he was, I just still point blank, there was nothing wrong with the way he promoted the film, in my opinion, because he. Obviously he should. He's as a director that he. That's his baby in his hands.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becca]

He took such a precious, sensitive story. Of course he should promote it that way at least. And whether that went against how Blake was doing it or not, it's kind of like tough at that. Like, too bad at that point. And maybe there could have been two ways to promote the film. Maybe if none of this tension. Maybe if they still promoted the film separately. But they posed together on the red carpet and they at least played pretend that they were getting along and did interviews together. Maybe they could have gotten away with promoting the film completely opposing.

[Kale]

They would have done it together. And she was talking about the fashion choices and some of the things that Lily. Lily and her character and her personality. 100. And he was promoted. I do think. Because I do. I would agree with you. I would agree with you. Right. I. And I never thought about that. I think that all of it was mishandled from start to finish because I think it could have been prevented altogether. But I think to your point. At what. At the point that you are in this industry. Is there some sort of responsibility to Justin and to Blake that they should have been forced to do the interviews together or because she was making these allegations? You don't want to be around your abuser. Right? Like, that was the whole message of the book too is like, where's the line? And I think that's the question is like, if this isn't black and white, it's such. There's such a big gray area here.

[Monday.com]

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[Kale]

Relax. GPS says we're on track.

[Becca]

Wait, does that sign say Switzerland?

[Kale]

No, no, no. We should be near Sicily.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Routing.

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[Kale]

I don't know what numbers look like in the entertainment or movie industry, but it's $351 million a lot to make for like a box office film.

[Becca]

Let's just compare really quick. Like I'm curious what's like similar. Like I'm curious what like any. Anyone but you made. I feel like that was just such a non controversial film that just was. What is that anyone but you with Sydney Sweeney and Glenn Powell.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becca]

Oh my God. You have to. It's such a feel good movie.

[Kale]

Okay. Because I don't know what it what is or Wicked versus average. Like I have no idea what what movies make. But it's.

[Becca]

Well, also notice how it ends with us has not. Is not in any award show nominations.

[Kale]

Because of the controversy or what.

[Becca]

I mean not all films will make will get awards, of course. And But I just feel like for.

[Kale]

Colleen Hoover, the hype around surrounding this movie, I also deserved an award. This is my maybe unpopular opinion. I do think that they should release Justin's version of it ends with us. It already has made the money that it's made. Why not release Justin's version? Or I guess Blake would have to allow that.

[Becca]

And I don't that I don't think that will ever happen, unfortunately.

[Kale]

Okay. So again, another opportunity that's missed because of all the mishandlings of this is like that could have been signed off on is like, okay, my version has to be cut. Like released first and then the second cut could be done. Right. Okay.

[Becca]

So anyone. This is actually. This was a good comparison. Anyone but you? Sorry, I kind of just cut you.

[Kale]

Off, but no, you're fine.

[Becca]

Anyone but you had a budget of 25 million.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becca]

And they grossed over 220 million worldwide. So it did less. I mean it was less of a. It wasn't as exciting of a story, but I would say it ends with us. The numbers are. Could have been better.

[Kale]

I would for it ends with us. You think it could have been better?

[Becca]

I think because if anyone but you a story that didn't come from this book that people are so obsessed and in love with made 220 million and it ends with us 100 million more. It's. It's a lot, of course. But let me see how much Wicked made now too, because.

[Kale]

Oh, that's not a fair comparison.

[Becca]

No, I know, I know, I know.

[Kale]

I don't get the hype around Wicked, but that's a conversation for another episode.

[Colette]

Okay.

[Becca]

Wicked grows 697 million globally. But if you see the extent of.

[Kale]

That we're talking about. It definitely was successful somewhere in the middle which I feel like is still on the higher end, especially with people. I mean movie theaters are closing left and right. Right. Because with all the streaming and things like that, people don't want to put the money into box office theaters. I feel.

[Becca]

I definitely think it's still. It wasn't a complete like waste of time or anything. I think it still did numbers wise successful in terms of gross like how much they grossed in profit.

[Kale]

I don't know. There has to be a loophole that Justin can release that because imagine the money that that would make then because people are either they either support him or they don't.

[Becca]

Has there ever been something released that way though where.

[Kale]

No. But I think they missed the mark. The way that this was mishandled from top to bottom. They have missed so many opportunities to make this better and bigger than what it was. And we're focused on this. He said, she said, love, hate, whatever animosity between Blake and Justin, which is completely unfair. But they missed the mark. There was a way for them to both get what they want by releasing both cuts.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

In my opinion. I'm also. I've never been on a movie set so I have no clue. But it's just the whole thing playing out. I don't.

[Becca]

I think of course especially when you have people that read the book first and fell so deeply in love with the story and the little parts of Better in Boston and like that the little key stuff. I remember being upset that the little clues of each part of the story weren't include and of course there's always going to be criticism in that when you watch a movie adaptation and you're going to wish it was exactly how Colleen wrote it, but it's never going to be that way. And I think those parts of people not loving the film are just what comes with it. And I don't think that those should be considered at all in all of this. But of course I think the perceptions and opinions and he said she said of Justin and Blake are just so unfortunate for the actual story itself.

[Kale]

Colleen did say that when you write a book and it's we'll say 300, 350 pages and then you adapt that to a movie script, you have to cut it down to like 100 or 150 pages. I will say that I wish they did give it ends with us because it was so big. Why not make it a little bit longer to. Because some of the main points I will say did get lost. I think it's. They still did a really good job like telling the story. But I will say that that the people that are die hard Coho fans and die hard fans of this book would have liked to see some of those moments. But there's no way to tell those parts of the story without cutting. Without making the script basically 300 pages. So I. I do understand that in terms of contradictions in this case or cases, one of the things was the unwanted physical contact. Blake Lively says that Justin engaged in unsolicited physical contact. His rebuttal is that he's denying these allegations, asserting that all physical interactions were consensual and professionally appropriate. Inappropriate on set conversation. Blake says that she contends that Justin and the producer Jamie Heath discuss personal sexual experiences and previous pornography addiction in her presence, creating a hostile work environment. And Justin, his response to this is that he disputes this characterization, stating that any personal discussions were either misconstrued or did not occur as described. Retaliation and SMEAR CAMPAIGN Blake says that she is. Blake asserts that after raising concerns Baldonian Heath hired crisis management experts to orchestrate a campaign aimed at damaging her reputation through social media and media placements. Justin refutes this, claiming that any public relation efforts were standard industry practice and not intended to harm Lively's reputation. And then on set behavior and professionalism. Blake claims that Baldoni's behavior created a toxic work environment leading to her feeling unsafe and disrespected at the point that she felt that way, should the entire production have been put on pause. He refutes this. He maintains that he conducted himself professionally at all times and that any concerns raised were addressed promptly and appropriately. If she continued would maybe I would believe that that's probably true. That he was professional and we're, you know, they addressed whatever they needed to address and they were addressed appropriately. Because if I'm that uncomfortable, I would.

[Becca]

Say I think the only way we might have some sort of answer. Obviously it's hard to ever know what the real truth is because we weren't there and everything that's said is after the fact now and not when it was actually happening. I wonder if it does end in court as people are saying. People that were actually there on set are gonna have to come speak out and either choose a side and share their what they witnessed too. And I feel like having other people besides Blake and Justin kind of just throwing punches at one another that's gonna be.

[Kale]

Are gonna be paramount to this case.

[Becca]

Exactly.

[Kale]

What if there are people that don't have. They don't pick a side. Like people. The people that were on set don't, you know, feel one way or another.

[Becca]

Right. Or if the people on set are saying, you know, that everything was consensual. We. I was there too. And. And they were. Blake was fine with it.

[Kale]

If that's what people are saying, how they felt either. So that's the. That's the tricky part of this is, like, what Blake is feeling or saying that she felt. We can't dispute that.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

You can only maintain what you feel that you did.

[Becca]

And I do think that, wow. Justin may have a solid case against Blake in certain aspects of the lawsuit. There could. There's also a chance that Blake could have a strong case in other aspects of the lawsuit. Like, there. Is there a way that this ends where they're both wrong?

[Kale]

I don't. Maybe it gets dismissed. There's not enough evidence on either side because of, you know, and I've seen that. I mean, that happened in my own lawsuit. Right. Like, it was completely dismissed because there was not enough evidence on either side. It was just dismissed because.

[Becca]

Right. You know, because while, for example, the whole trailer thing and being invited into the trailer. What if Justin is right on that aspect where Blake. Maybe Blake didn't mean to or Blake didn't necessarily, or after the fact, she regretted it or something, whatever way it was.

[Kale]

But if you regret it, you don't turn around and file a lawsuit.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

I mean, that's crazy. That's like someone having consensual sex and turning around and saying, I was raped. That doesn't. It doesn't work that way.

[Becca]

Right. And while Justin could say, you know, I like that part is not true, could Blake prove that other part was accurate? Non consensual kisses on set or unwanted kisses on set, like. Like I. The way I at least have felt, found myself is like, I don't know. I think there's issues in both of both sides.

[Kale]

Both could be true, both could be false. Right. There's such a gray area that we don't know.

[Becca]

And while Blake could be wrong in some cases, I feel Justin could also be wrong and held accountable in some cases, 1000%.

[Kale]

Blake claims, she said she believes that the alleged misconduct and subsequent retaliation adversely affected the film's production and her performance. And Justin's response. He argues the production proceeded smoothly and that any challenges were unrelated to the allegations, which. This is my first time actually seeing that response. And that's basically what I've been saying this whole Time is you weren't uncomfortable enough to stop it.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but you didn't put an end to it. And I just don't know again, at fault because victims sometimes don't come forward. And so that's the flip side of it is that, you know, some people don't speak up or they speak up way after the fact. And I think that, that, that doesn't. Some people will argue that that makes, makes them question that person's credibility. And I don't necessarily always agree with that.

[Becca]

Yeah. And I think there's a gray area, there's other celebrities where it's been proven true of. You know, the stuff that you did in 2000 could still bite you now. And even. No matter. I mean, this is a year later we're talking about. Whereas, you know, you have actors like Danny Masterson's now behind bars for the rest of his life for something that he was accused of doing in 2000. And then he. It's only in, in the 2000s where he's now was found guilty of it. So it's a two decades later. So then it's two decades and he can still be in jail for that. Whereas a year later, this is coming out.

[Kale]

So Diddy and Bill Cosby and all of them. I mean, that's decades later.

[Becca]

Decades. So at the end of the day. Yeah. Should she have come forward right away?

[Kale]

Maybe, but I don't think it undermines credibility.

[Becca]

Exactly.

[Kale]

Because rape victims come forward long after it happens. And I, I will never victim shame someone if they decide to come forward two years later or two months later. At the end of the day, that is their truth and their experience. And I would never undermine someone's credibility for that.

[Becca]

Right. And that's where the whole I feel push and pull of this whole case is. Is sure. Smear campaign that's so easy to just be like la di da about or care like take a side about. But then you have the word sexual assault thrown. And then it's like everyone, everyone freezes. Yeah. Everyone's like, if Blake Lively's saying she was sexually assaulted, like, how do you not that handle that with care?

[Kale]

Well, so the legal actions and motivations. Blake says so her, she views her lawsuit as a necessary step to address and rectify the alleged misconduct to advocate for a safer work environment. I think across the board we should be promoting a safe work environment, no matter the setting, no matter the place, no matter the industry. Justin's response, he says that he Perceived. He basically perceives the lawsuit as unfounded and potentially damaging to his career. Asserting that he's been unjustly accused. Which also is valid. They're both valid in their motivation. Right.

[Becca]

But then Blake is saying her damn reputation was damaged if this alleged smear campaign actually was conducted to make the whole Internet hate her. So it's kind of just like. I don't know. It's really. It's confusing.

[Kale]

Honestly, I don't know how I see this case evolving over months to come. I. I hope that Colleen Hoover continues to get the recognition that she deserves for the book and for the movie. I hope to see Justin's cut one day just to see what the differences. And I hope that the truth prevails in whatever that looks like for either of them or for both of them.

[Becca]

Right.

[Kale]

That's where I stand.

[Becca]

I would say I could. I see a world in which this. Both lawsuits get dismissed, and I see a world in which this turns into Johnny Depp and Amber Heard and it is detrimental to one of their careers.

[Kale]

One of their careers. Because I think I'm starting to see Johnny Depp come back from that. But I think Amber Heard has been buried.

[Becca]

I mean, I'm, like, afraid to use the word buried now because of the whole we can bury anyone that's now become like an infamous part of this lawsuit.

[Kale]

That's a scary place to be because, I mean, she has a family to provide for.

[Becca]

Yeah. And. And that just also makes you question or wonder is she saw Amber Heard go through that? Obviously everyone kind of did. And yeah, she. How could you go ahead and file that lawsuit without being 100 sure that you have a case?

[Kale]

Do you think a documentary will come about, come out of this the same way that it did for Amber and Johnny Depp?

[Becca]

I do think so. I think.

[Kale]

Can this podcast get in there then too? Because I was on the one on.

[Becca]

Johnny Depp put us in. I think the lawyers are gonna have a lot to say after the fact of this, at least. I mean, I don't know who are her reps.

[Kale]

I don't even know who her reps are. But his. Justin Baldoni's attorney is everywhere.

[Becca]

I've seen him everywhere. And then new revelations.

[Kale]

This is breaking news. It's probably not breaking news. I'm just the last to know. Johnny Depp's team is representing Justin Baldoni and his representing Blake.

[Becca]

She does have a strong. Like her publicist is badass. Yeah.

[Kale]

But they can't fight. They can't litigate.

[Becca]

No.

[Kale]

PR cannot litigate so who is. Who is. Let me look it up. I do think she is Blake Lively. Oh, no one's googled this Lively's attorney. And why aren't they speaking up? I feel in my personal, humble, not important opinion is that lawyers don't come forward and do a whole press tour on their stance unless they feel like their case is 100% solid. Because my lawyers, and that's across the board from family court to trademark to entertainment attorney here in New York, they will tell me, I cannot tell you for certain what is going to happen. They tell me that every single time.

[Becca]

Right. And he's over here, Justin's lawyer, as in he is coming here out. He's like, I have receipts to like, Blake is done. Like that's the message he's sending at least. So for a lawyer to sit there and such a renowned lawyer as he.

[Kale]

Is, I don't know who her attorneys are. I'm not seeing it anywhere, just off a really quick brief Google search. But I'll be curious to see how this plays out. And please let us know if you have. I'm always the last to know everything when it comes to this. So if you guys have any updates, please send them and let us know what you want to hear about next. Yeah. Thanks for coming.

[Becca]

Thank you so much.

[Kale]

Where can our listeners find you on socials or find your articles?

[Becca]

So my articles can be [e-mail] My socials are Rebecca with an extra A. So Rebecca 2A Friedman, F R I E D M A N. And that is my Instagram.

[Kale]

Perfect. Thanks for coming on.

[Becca]

Thank you so much.

[OK Magazine]

This just in, I know we just recorded an entire episode about all of the things about Justin and Blake and okay. Magazine just hit the breaking news with Justin Baldoni counter suing Blake Lively, Ryan Reynolds and her publicist for $400 million over. It ends with a smear campaign. And I do know based on everything that I'm reading is that Justin Baldoni also named Taylor Swift in this, this part of the lawsuit. He's claiming that they met at Blake's penthouse and they were talking and Taylor inserted her two cents, basically saying that she really liked Blake's cuts, her ideas, you know, all of that. And so I thought that was really interesting. And I do think, I mean, that's a scary place to be is to name Taylor Swift in anything good or bad because I feel like the Swifties will come after you. So I. He might lose a lot of fans just by naming her. I don't know it's kind of scary. But on Thursday, January 16, Royer lawyers for the It Ends With Us director in his production company filed a counter lawsuit against Lively, her husband Ryan and her publicist Leslie Sloan and the agents PR firm Vision PR Inc. For a bombshell $400 million. So this is kind of crazy. I don't know where this is going to go. Maybe they'll settle, but maybe egos won't let them. So we'll keep you guys updated. I'll be curious to see what happens. And you'll have to let me know if you're Team Justin or Team Blake.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Is this thing on? I'm Kaitlyn Bristowe, host of off the Vine Podcast where I get real. Maybe a little too real. So I'd with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor franchise and beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness.

[Colette]

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[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Nikki Glaser, Wells Adams, Elise Myers.

[Kale]

Just like in this like business jacket. Like I would love some tacos.

[Kaitlyn Bristowe]

Heidi D'Amelio, Big Brother's Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened and we're going to get through it. It what I do and so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions and get a little vulnerable. Because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow rate and Review off the Vine Podcast Wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Kale]

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Or Tracker, or curl up with a surefire hit like Forrest Gump. Run Forrest.

[Colette]

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[Becca]

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