Let's Talk About It With Isaac (Ike) Knighton

Summary

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Barely Famous – "Let's Talk About It With Isaac (Ike) Knighton"

Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Isaac (Ike) Knighton
Date: April 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This raw and revealing episode of Barely Famous features Kail Lowry and her partner Isaac Knighton (“Ike”) in a direct, no-holds-barred conversation about their relationship, media scrutiny, blending families, co-parenting, personal growth, trust, public perception, and healing after past relationship trauma. Kail and Ike address online rumors, misconceptions, and the intense pressures of making a private life work in public view—especially when both have complicated histories.

Theme:
Complete transparency about the start and evolution of their relationship, clearing the air about the rumors, and unpacking the emotional labor of high-visibility relationships.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Rumors and Scrutiny: The Start of Kail and Ike’s Relationship

[02:39]–[03:44]

• Kail and Ike share how they never got to have a conversation about going public; the relationship was made public by others, forcing them into “damage control.”

• Kail explains that they didn’t choose privacy so much as having it imposed by circumstance.

• Ike was not in the Teen Mom orbit and didn’t catch the negativity until the relationship went public.

  "We didn't even get a chance to have those conversations before it hit the Internet. Once it hit the Internet, it was like, oh, my God, damage control. Let's just pretend this isn't happening."
  — Kail [03:14]

2. Choosing Privacy (or Not) Under Pressure

[04:00]–[05:58]

• Kail underlines that staying private was about protection—not secrecy—as Ike wasn’t involved in social media circles.

• Both agree that inviting outside voices strains relationships and mental health.

  “Once you let a lot of outside forces into your relationship, it sways your opinion or viewpoint on your significant other.”
  — Ike [05:05]

3. Online Negativity & Processing Public Opinion

[06:12]–[09:30]

• Both Kail and Ike speak candidly about reading lies and stressful exaggerations online.

• Ike experienced public scrutiny for the first time, and even ended up on “Are We Dating The Same Man?” Facebook groups, which was overwhelming.

  “I'm reading certain things and I'm like, when did I do that? Or who did I do this with?”
  — Ike [07:14]

• Kail expresses frustration at being typecast as someone only valued for money or drama.

4. Blending Lives Quickly: Love, Loneliness, and Moving In

[09:30]–[11:10]

• Kail admits the relationship moved fast and was selfish—but necessary for her mental health after years of loneliness, even in past relationships.

• Both felt being together under one roof was the best way to learn if things could work, especially with children involved.

  “I have lived in a really lonely world... this was the first time that I felt like I was... with my best friend.”
  — Kail [09:40]

5. Family Challenges & Co-Parenting Dynamics

[11:10]–[14:00]

• They discuss valid concerns about moving someone new in with children and navigating the skepticism of ex-partners.
• Kail confronts common criticisms—her “track record,” loneliness, and mistakes—but stands by her choices for her family.

6. Clearing Up Specific Rumors

[16:12]–[19:00]

• Rumors addressed:

  • That Kail paid for Ike to move (she didn’t)
  • Timeline and “back burner” accusations (no overlap or sneaking around)
  • Motivations (Ike genuinely interested in Kail, not her status or resources)

  “If I was money driven, I would have seeked you out... years ago.”
  — Ike [18:02]

7. Mental Health, Negativity, and Social Media

[20:56]–[25:00]

• Kail describes how social media attacks extend to her friends, kids, and partners, causing mental health struggles.

• Both set boundaries for online consumption; Ike deactivated accounts, Kail blocked Teen Mom fan pages.

  “I try to protect her from a lot of opinions…”
  — Ike [20:56]

8. Communication, Expectations, and Healing Old Habits

[31:15]–[34:45]

• Kail outlines her journey from relationships where needs were unspoken, to learning explicit communication with Ike, especially around the chaos of parenting.

• Ike highlights the importance of direct conversation, not mind-reading, and how their routine is “routinely chaotic.”

  "I'm expecting him to read my mind and I, it... I didn't realize I was even doing that until he said it to me in the car the one day."
  — Kail [31:45]

9. Personal Red Flags and Growth Reflections

[35:36]–[38:06]

• They discuss honesty about previous relationship mistakes—cheating, self-centeredness, learning boundaries.
• Ike’s growth centered on not repeating the same mistakes; choosing to prioritize communication and presence.

10. Parenting, Blended Families, and Kids’ Input

[38:37]–[41:00]

• Kail opens up about asking her kids for feedback about Ike and ensuring their safety and comfort.

• Safety, trust, and a background of long-term acquaintances shape her process.

  "I've had private convers[ations]... I needed to get some input from them because I want them to feel like they're heard..."
  — Kail [39:20]

11. Public Perception, Worthiness, and Self-Esteem

[44:22]–[47:42]

• Kail repeatedly addresses how she is painted as unworthy, unlovable, or only worthwhile for her resources.
• Discussion about whether breaking patterns or making new ones is possible while under public scrutiny.

12. Trust, Loyalty, and Long-Term Intentions

[48:42]–[51:09]

• Kail values that Ike doesn’t attack exes publicly, correlating that with loyalty—a trait she’s rarely received.
• Ike: loyalty means “do right by me in all manners, just do right by me.”

13. Marriage and Kids: Thoughts on the Future

[66:30]–[74:13]

• They talk openly about the prospects of marriage, children, and what “doing it right” means after past experiences—while also recognizing that there is no “perfect timeline.”

• Marriage is a mutual (and early) relationship goal.

• Both affirm they want to build, not just “kill time” in relationships.

  "Once I got to know you as a person, I was like, like, she'll be my wife."
  — Ike [74:21]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Giving Up Privacy:
  "Outside forces—they want something to run with."
  — Isaac Knighton [11:10]

• On Being Misunderstood:
  "Do people think that I don't know this about myself? Do they think that I don't understand that I have repeated the pattern that my mom did to me?"
  — Kail [08:29]

• On the Chaos of Blended Family Life:
  "We have a routine in the chaos."
  — Kail and Ike [25:50]

• On Whether Ike’s With Kail for Clout or Money:
  “I'm in it for her, honestly. Money I can give two shits about. Clout, I can give two shits about.”
  — Ike [56:24]

• On Loyalty:
  "Once if I find out you're not doing right by me now, I go from calm, cool, collective, funny guy... Now it's the [angry]. Because you take my kindness for weakness."
  — Ike [48:56]

• On Feeling Worthy of Love:
  “Take everything away, take my team away, take my money away. I don't have anything to offer.”
  — Kail [76:51]

• On Growth and Regrets:
  "The wisdom that I have now, if I was 18 years old with this wisdom, I'd probably be a doctor or some.”
  — Ike [74:13]

• On Their Future:
  "I want to see every phase of your moon."
  — Ike [72:41]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening and Relationship Rumors: [02:39] – [05:58]
• Emotional Honesty & Online Negativity: [06:00] – [09:30]
• Blending and Co-Parenting: [09:30] – [14:00]
• Rumors and Money: [16:12] – [19:00]
• Social Media’s Toll: [20:56] – [25:00]
• Communication & Growth: [31:15] – [34:45]
• Red Flags, Growth, and Chemistry: [35:36] – [38:06]
• Kids and Family Integration: [38:37] – [41:00]
• Self-Esteem, Loyalty, and Motivation: [44:22] – [51:09]
• Marriage, Kids, and Future Goals: [66:30] – [74:13]

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Episode Flow & Tone

• Language and Tone:
  “Real, raw, and unfiltered”—the conversation is deeply personal, at times emotional, candidly confrontational of rumors, and often sprinkled with humor and gentle sarcasm, especially when discussing their own chaos or quick decisions.

• Chemistry:
  Kail and Ike demonstrate vulnerability, mutual respect, and a willingness to share their most uncomfortable truths. Their repartee—joking about personalities, chaos, and social media—is affectionate and direct.

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Conclusion

This episode pulls back the curtain on the emotional and psychological reality of managing public relationships—especially for someone like Kail, frequently in the tabloid spotlight. Kail and Ike address every uncomfortable rumor, admit to mistakes, and detail the hard work and open communication required to blend lives and families. Their candor—about parenting, mistakes, loyalty, trauma, and growth—is both a love story and a survival story for anyone navigating relationships in an age of online scrutiny.

Essential Listening For:

• Fans following Kail's personal journey
• Listeners seeking honest talk about love after betrayal
• Anyone struggling with social media’s effect on mental health and relationships
• People managing blended families or rebuilding trust

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Transcript

[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

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[Kale]

Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on killlowy.com and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else. Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're listening to Barely Famous. Hey, welcome to a new episode of Barely Famous podcast. I'm sitting here with Isaac Knighton, the Long awaited episode of just covering all the things regarding us because we're reading the things that we see online. We are seeing the comments, we're seeing the pictures. We're here to do a tell all on ourselves. So before you guys started dating, this is for Ike. Did you hear any rumors about Kale back in the day?

[Isaac Knighton]

I didn't hear, like, any negativity, but I also didn't really. We were more Facebook friends than Instagram friends.

[Kale]

But you didn't hear any I didn't

[Isaac Knighton]

know negativity that I heard coming from her direction.

[Kale]

You guys made a decision to keep your relationship private. How did that transpire? How do you feel like it affected both of you and your relationship? I honestly don't think that I made the decision to keep anything private. I think the decision was made for me. The situation with Elijah happened so fast. Like, it. My world was flipped upside down. I already knew him. We were talking, shooting the. And it sort of just like all sort of snowballed from there. And I don't think that we ever really got a chance to have a conversation about where. Whether or not we would have our relationship on the Internet before it already hit the Internet. And then at that point, it was like, damage control. Now we're going to be private because we were forced into how this has all, like, snowballed, if that makes sense. I don't know if what I'm saying is, like, making sense. Like, we didn't even get a chance to have those conversations before it hit the Internet. Once it hit the Internet, it was like, oh, my God, damage control. Let's just pretend this isn't happening.

[Isaac Knighton]

Once things had. In our talking stage, I'll call it a talking stage, it was very limited because, like, it felt so kosher. Like, we've known each other for so long that our conversations didn't feel like, forced or they didn't feel like.

[Kale]

Like a regular talking phase. When you're like, first meeting and you're getting to know, like, we felt like we already knew each other. And I. I hope I'm not speaking for you when I say that, but the decisions were made for us and. And that's not. That's not new, right? Like, with all the babies and with my other relationships, like, even with Elijah, like, those decisions have always been made for me and I've never been able to make the con. I think the only time I really was able to make those decisions was Rio and the twins. But even then, people were still outing it. So it was like I was More so trying to do damage control for privacy than. And I think that what is happening now is like, people are upset because I haven't been public about this relationship, but it's purely out of protection, dude. I think for him too, not just for myself, but for him, like, the same reason, some of the same reasons I left Teen mom and didn't put that relationship on the Internet in the beginning are a lot of the same reasons that I didn't want to do that to him. Because he's not really on the Internet. He has TikTok now and that's it. He doesn't have anything else. And so that's not something he ever signed up for. And so when people are like outing it and putting it out there, it's just like, I don't. We don't really know what to do outside of, like, let's try to keep it private so that it doesn't get fucked up.

[Isaac Knighton]

Correct. I think, I think what you. Once you let a lot of outside forces into your relationship, it sways your opinion or viewpoint on your significant other. So I think us trying to just keep it to ourselves and keep each other happy, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. I think us trying to keep everything under our house, the. Under the household. I feel as if it was in best interest because for me, I'm not necessarily like a social media person. My social media content, 99% of it is phishing related. Anything that I was doing online, it wasn't anything that was respectfully, like, worthy of being, I don't know, publicized maybe. So when the relationship was put out there for the public eye and then you read all these opinions and you read all these lies. Lie. A ton of lies.

[Kale]

We're gonna clear. We're gonna clear the air.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Kale]

I think when Javi got on Instagram Live, I think that's what was the. It was the start of the trickle down effect. Some people may have questions about why I'm addressing it so many months later, and it's like, I don't want to

[Isaac Knighton]

be when we want to. Like that we don't move on your time. Well, on their time, we address shit when we want to.

[Kale]

Part of the reason why I wanted to do this now too though, is like, I have blocked all the teen mom pages. I've blocked all the pages for me to see what is being posted about you and I specifically. But, like, for me, I have no reason to lie about any of this. And it's just one of those things where, like, I know who I am. As a mom. But I need to, I want to say that like when Ike and I entered this relationship, we were uncomfortably honest with each other about everything. From who we cheated on, the relationships that we were in, you know, messing with other people. Like we were so honest about all of that. And so I already, like, I could sort of decipher what people were trying to say about him. Like I knew the pieces that were true and the things that were almost true. Like it's like almost like you heard it second, third, fourth hand sort of deal. And so for me, it was less upsetting because I was like, I already know what like the actual truth is for him. I think it's like that was the first time that that did exploded for you.

[Isaac Knighton]

So I've, I've never been the center of attention on social media, right? So when I'm getting all of this and I'm reading certain comments and, and getting messages with, let me say, 70%, right? There was a little truth in there with a lot of lie. So I'm reading certain things and I'm like, when did I do that? Or who did I do this with or where was I when this happened? And at first it was, it was overwhelming. Not gonna lie because it was just reading all this false accusations and things and I'm like, this is nuts. This is nuts. Before Kale and I were outed, I was never talked about on social media. I was never on a T page or are we dating the same man page.

[Kale]

Were you posted on that?

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, I was posted on that. Just so many fucking lies. I'm very, I'm a private person. I don't like to disclose, you know, a lot of things that I'm doing. Whether it's, you know, the simplicity of my work schedule, whatever, the simplicity of what I'm doing on the weekend. No, it's just for me or for two other people to know, not 30 people to know. Learning a lot about myself that never transpired.

[Kale]

People think that I'm unaware that I have four baby dads and I'm not really great in relationships. Do people think that I don't know this about myself? Do they think that I don't understand that I have repeated the pattern that my mom did to me? I'm very aware of that. So I could understand where the dads would be concerned. However, I wouldn't put my kids in harm's way. Valid concerns about me having multiple relationships in my kids lives, that's valid concern. Do I think it warranted alive? No, I don't I do think it's like. What's the word? Culmination. A combination of all of the things. One of Javi's biggest concerns was how fast Ike moved to Delaware. And, yes, that was my doing. I did say, like, move to Delaware. I said that. Sorry, I put you in a bad, bad position. That's concern that I would be concerned. Maybe. I. I don't know. I try to put myself in his shoes, and I think, like, if him and Lauren were not to be together and he were to introduce somebody else, like, I'm. I feel confident in my motherhood, and I also feel confident that Lincoln would be okay. I'm not saying like it, but I think he would be okay. It's not ideal. I don't think he thinks it's ideal.

[Isaac Knighton]

I think it was. I think it was rather quickly. And then we started to. Honestly, I'm going to be real. We started to understand each other more underneath the same roof.

[Kale]

I'll say this. While it wasn't ideal, I think it worked out the way it was supposed to work out, because had we done long distance for a year, two years, three years, and then he moved in and it didn't work out. Now we've both just invested three years of our time in a long distance. And I get it. It's selfish. I have kids. It shouldn't be the main priority. But, like, for people to understand me, they have to understand that I have. Despite all of my relationships, I have lived in a really lonely world. And I'm gonna get emotional talking about it because it's so frustrating, but it's like, I have been so lonely, no matter what relationship I'm in. And this was the first time that I felt like I was. I've been with my best friend. Like, and I said it on the podcast. You guys know this. Like, I've only ever said, like, you can't be best friends with your partner. That's not real. Like, it's literally not real. So when I met him, it was like, okay, well, if he moves to Delaware, I will know very quickly if this is going to work or it's not going to work. And I get it. It's. It's selfish. And when you have seven kids, you don't really get to be selfish. But also, it's like, I want to share a life with someone. I don't want to just go through the motions.

[Isaac Knighton]

Don't want to live. I want to be able to experience happiness with somebody. Overall happiness. So sorry for cutting you off.

[Kale]

No, it's okay, I I think we learned each other very quickly and so that did help. But no, I don't think it was ideal. I don't think it is my best choice that I've ever made. I also don't need other people to point it out for me if we

[Isaac Knighton]

had a relationship problem, right? If you take that to an outside source, you are fracturing the home that you have. I've learned through my trials and tribulations, right that it's okay if I'm maybe vent to one person and that one person could be a good friend of mine and it's really just an ear. I don't speak ill about her. I've never called her what they say, Miss Piggy. I've never called her Miss Piggy, never called her Shrek, Never never called her any derogatory names. So seeing all of these comments and things like that, it's like bro, when the did I say that and who did you say and who did I say it to? People wanted something to run with if

[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

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[Kale]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Isaac Knighton]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.

[Kale]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Isaac Knighton]

I want to clear the air. Yes, I was in a relationship for off and on for eight years, approximately eight years, give or take.

[Kale]

And I always knew about that relationship. Yes, he cheated on her, as he said earlier. I did. He never cheated on her with me. I've never cheated on any of my partners with him.

[Isaac Knighton]

Correct.

[Kale]

But I did know about his ex, and I never disrespected their relationship, to my knowledge.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yes, I do have a daughter. When I found out that her mother was pregnant, it was a rough time. And I'm not really going to dive a lot into detail, but it was a rough time. And ultimately, when all was said and done, her and I tried to work it out, but it only lasted for like two or three weeks. I read something online. Kaylin Ray did not pay for me to move from Philly to Delaware. Oh, I. Yep, that was something on there.

[Kale]

I didn't pay for you to move to Delaware at all.

[Isaac Knighton]

Correct.

[Kale]

From anywhere. From Easton, from Allenton, home from Philly, from New York, from Dominican Republic. Nowhere.

[Isaac Knighton]

Correct.

[Kale]

I was a little upset by that, too. Unrelated to him specifically, but anybody is like, everyone always asks me for money. Everyone always asks me for this. Everyone always asked me for that. And he never asked me for a dime. So it's like, it's frustrating that that is how people view me and that is how people view my relationships.

[Isaac Knighton]

And it doesn't viewed me and it

[Kale]

doesn't matter who I'm in a relationship with. They automatically assume that I am not good enough to have someone be genuinely interested in who I am. And it's always what I can do for them. Like even just the general public thinks that of me. And it's. It's actually really upsetting. God forbid someone finds, like, actually has an interest in who I am. No, I'm sure the money is a great benefit, no doubt, but I don't think that's how this started. Because if that was the case, he would have tried a long time ago, and he's never crossed that line prior to this. So it gets frustrating.

[Isaac Knighton]

I've. I've had to, you know, just have a lot of conversations with her, to be fair, and just reiterate, like, my true intentions to where it's like, listen, like, respectfully to you, I don't give a fuck what you have. I'm here for you. I'm not here for what you could offer. We've known each other for X amount of years, and to her point, like, if I was money driven, I would have seeked you out. Salt. Salt. Thanks. What? The Easton sought you out years ago. Right? It's. It's. That's not. It paid all my bills alone for years. For years. So this is confusing. And I know for. For her, it's. It's, you know, a bit emotional because she can go online and she just gets fake messages from people or people make dumbass comments. And it's like, what.

[Kale]

It does get in my head, not just for all the relationships I've ever been in. It gets in my head like, I'm only worth someone coming to me for money. Right? I'm only worth someone coming to be with me because, you know, I'm a shitty person and I'm. I can't keep a man. That's like the number one thing. Kale can't keep a man. Alessandra left the room for a second, but she can speak to this, too. People literally attack the people that they know are in your life and have been in for a really long time, to the point where we've both received death threats from people from. Why won't you control Kale? Why won't you tell her you're an enabler? It's upsetting because obviously, you guys know you. You've all expressed concerns, not just regarding my relationship or Ike, but just in just general situations. You guys have brought concerns to me, and I'm like, I'm gonna do this how I need to do it, because this is how I learn. And unfortunately, if I have guilt for it, if I wish that I didn't do it, that's something that I have to go through on my own. Nobody can say something to me that's going to. And I think it's. It's upsetting because I've. I've read. I read something over the weekend that said, like, I. I pay Emily to be my friend and to do things for me. Right? No. Even Emily was like, why are you. Why is he moving to Delaware? Why? Like, this is all too soon. Like, just because you guys don't agree with it doesn't mean that we don't have to be friends over it. Like, you guys are all expressing concerns. You want me to have no friends because I don't make the best choices all the time. I think when you read things over and over again or when you see things over and over again, whether you. Whether it's intentional or not, it gets into your head. And so if I'm reading comments on social media that are so negative about all the things I do wrong and nothing I do right, I'm gonna snap, right? And so it's in fact making it worse. One, I have teens and tweens on social media. So they're reading it. Two, I'm reading it. Do you know what I mean? And so you're actually making it 10 times worse. And I think that Ike being in my life and my kids lives is actually the least of the con of the concerns, right? Like, there's so many other things that we. We could all be worried about. Then definitely he's no harm to my children.

[Isaac Knighton]

I try to protect her from a lot of opinions. I don't really try to let it affect me too much because ultimately, you know, my partner, you know, we. We are supposed to grow old together, right? So we. We can't bring outside forces into a relationship when a lot of people don't understand actually what's going on underneath the roof. I remember me being. I think I was on Instagram and I had opened up just Instagram, and I have, like, I don't know, 50 to 100 new followers. But every time I would refresh it, they're just growing.

[Kale]

And I'm like, I remember you showing that to me.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah. I'm like, what the is going on? So she runs in and she's like, babe, we gotta talk. Oh, number one, what the did I do? Right? That's. That's what did I do? But she was like, listen, Javi went on live. You know, he said some things, but I was just up, down. I'm like, like, what the is going on? And then seeing that. So I instantly deactivated Facebook and Instagram because now I had like, Teen mom pages following me. And. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not. I'm not about to deal with this. So then she had informed me, like, hey, what had transpired? So now I'm just like, what the is happening right now? What is going on. So. So, you know, together we had sat down and we had tried the process as well as we could at that time. Just. We have to just kind of get through this storm.

[Kale]

Ike and I hadn't even had a conversation about whether the relationship would be public or not. But at the point that Javi named Ike, he also brought Ike's family into it because obviously, by nature, it's just, like, instinctual. You want to defend your nephew, your son, your brother, whoever it is. I don't know who all defended you, but you're bringing them into it because they want to. This is new to everybody. These are people that have never been. Have had any kind of publicity like this. And so it put everybody in a up spot because now people in his family are trying to defend him, but they also don't know. They didn't know about our relationship. He hadn't even shared with them that he moved to Delaware yet. So you're putting. And now there's misinformation because these people are trying to defend him and they don't know the situation. And so they're only speaking on what they know. And then we're over here. Like, we wanted to keep it private. We didn't even talk about whether or not we were going to go public with it or not.

[Isaac Knighton]

I think it was, we're going to lock down, right? We're going to focus on. On what we need to underneath this household. Let the outside talk about whatever.

[Kale]

I don't necessarily think that there were any other conversations about, okay, we're going to keep it private. It was more like, we're going to lock down and make sure we got to figure out what we got to figure out first. It wasn't really about, like, whether we were going to go public or private.

[Isaac Knighton]

But I do want to say, shout out to everybody who stuck up for me. Thank you. I do want to say that because there were a lot of people fighting battles for me behind closed doors. I got some phone calls from some, and they're like, yo, you know, hey, this is what's going on. This is what I said in your defense. You know, I. I know the story about, you know, your daughter. I know how you are in real life. Like. And they were like, you know, bro, like, you stand on your own, too. Like, respectfully, to piggyback off that.

[Kale]

Isaac doesn't talk about anyone.

[Isaac Knighton]

I don't.

[Kale]

He doesn't talk about his exes. He doesn't talk about his daughter's mom. He doesn't talk about those People. So it was really upsetting for me. Like, obviously some of the situations are not ideal. He. He has acknowledged that he cheated. He understands, you know, all of that. I don't think that it was necessary for some of the people to talk and they really didn't say anything about anything. Yeah, it was just a bunch of.

[Isaac Knighton]

They just wanted to throw out misinformation and things like that. When you and I started conversing, there was nobody else. So when everything had transpired and there's all of this get thrown out, it's like, no, I wasn't talking to you or I wasn't, I wasn't hanging out with you. No, when Kale and I on our. Honestly, when we hung out, I was single already for a year. So I wasn't in a relationship. I wasn't severely talking to anybody. No, it was just occupying time with.

[Kale]

So you were having hookups but not relationships?

[Isaac Knighton]

Yes, correct.

[Kale]

Did you have regrets in the beginning? You never had a regret. You never looked at the show that is my life and said, you know what? On second thought, I'm going home.

[Isaac Knighton]

No, because the show, that's your life. The that I've had to grow up with and deal with. This is nothing. So like to me, this is a mother in the best interest of her kids trying to better them educationally, in sports, mentally, emotionally. Like, you're trying every avenue to better your children's life, even when you're upset and over stimulated.

[Kale]

But just like the crying, the schedules, like a regular day from no day is the same. There is no routine. There's no such thing as a routine. Like when I see people are like, oh, what's your routine? What's your day?

[Isaac Knighton]

We have a routine.

[Kale]

Yeah, it's pure chaos, but we have

[Isaac Knighton]

a routine in the chaos.

[Kale]

But you never were like, you know what? This is too much.

[Isaac Knighton]

No, because once I was able to process everything, I'm like, this is just another day. Like it's not too much for me to handle. I was managing 40 people a day.

[Kale]

Yeah, but that's not the same as living with the kids 24 hours a day.

[Isaac Knighton]

You're right. But managing 40 adults who are married, divorced, cheating on her women, whatever the case may be, it's crazy.

[Kale]

What about me and my seven personalities? Did that ever we going to be

[Isaac Knighton]

here while for that one. Your seven personalities? It took a while for me to understand

[Kale]

starting something new isn't just hard, it's actually terrifying. People don't always see the behind the scenes of starting a business or starting a new project. And so when I started this podcast, I didn't even know what I was doing. I was just kind of learn as you go, right? What if no one listens? What if I make a fool of myself? But despite it all, Shopify was there for me and Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all E commerce commerce in the United States. From household names like Skims to Gymshark. Get started on your own studio designs with hundreds of ready to use templates because Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style and you can accelerate your efficiency whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones. Shopify is also packed with helpful AI tools and they write the product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography. You can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. But best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise and everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. What if people haven't heard about your brand? Shopify helps you find customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns, which is awesome. And you can tackle all those important tasks all in one place. From inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting that tool that you need because everything is all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations so much smoother. It's time to turn those wh ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com barely famous go to shopify.com barely famous that's shopify.com barely famous. If anyone listening to this has a mother figure in their life that maybe isn't their bloodmother but is someone that just like a mom to you and you don't know how to gift them something that actually means something. Because let's face it, most Mother's Day gifts are about one moment. But I have an idea that's worth so much more which is story worth story worth gives your mom a year long experience or the person in your life who is like a mom to you and gives your family a book filled with the stories that only she can tell. Each week Storyworth will send her a question about her life and she responds however she wants. Months writing back over email or web voice recording or new this year, a guided phone call so there's no apps, no logins, no tech hassle or anything like that. And Storyworth makes it easy for her so she can focus on the joy of remembering and reflecting. And you can help pick the questions too. You can choose from pre written questions, write your own, or let Storyworth create personalized questions based on her life. You get each story as she tells it and after a year, Storyworth compiles everything, her words, her photos, her life into one beautiful hardcover book. Book. So I'm telling you, trust this process. It's so worth it. And new this year is Story Worth's unlimited plan. So you buy it once and you'll be able to give Story Worth Memoirs to friends and family all year. Plus it comes with their newest features and multiple full color book copies. That means you can get all your Mother's Day gifts for your mom, your grandma, or any mother figures in your life. Plus you can actually take care of Father's Day while you're at it too. If you're like me, I sometimes have to get stuff stuff when I remember it in the moment, even if that means it's six weeks in advance. This year, give your mom or mother figure in your life a gift that helps her reflect on her life with a fresh perspective and gives your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's day is Sunday, May 10th and if you order right now, you can save up to $20 at StoryWorth.com famous save up to $20 at Storyworth.com famous StoryWorth.com famous this is a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naula. When his son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe to pay for medical expenses.

[Isaac Knighton]

It was 5k to pay the bill for my son and I needed only 22 hours.

[Kale]

It was amazing.

[Isaac Knighton]

People really trust on GoFundMe.

[Kale]

How did Juan raise $5,000 in less than a day? He posted a short video on GoFundMe telling his story in 30 seconds.

[Isaac Knighton]

30 seconds. Be specific. Be quick and tell what are you going to be using the funds for?

[Kale]

I was nervous to do it because

[Isaac Knighton]

it doesn't feel okay to ask money. But you shouldn't be nervous. Sometimes you just have to do it

[Kale]

and see the results.

[Isaac Knighton]

We were able to save my son's life thanks to gofundme that we still

[Kale]

have my son with us. Start your GoFundMe today at GoFundMe. That's GoFundMe.com GoFundMe.com this message reflects one person's experience.

[Isaac Knighton]

So did you have regrets I didn't have regret. I didn't have regrets. But I had a lot of questions like how do you go from hehe haha to I'm overstimulated.

[Kale]

Oh, so regular stuff.

[Isaac Knighton]

Oh, how am I supposed to know that? You know, you want certain things, you would like certain things done, but not necessarily communicate it in a way to where I'm responsive. How am I supposed to be able to understand that? So it took some growing and, and learning and really continuing to study one another.

[Kale]

Well, it, that was very hard for me. I came out of a relationship where what's understood doesn't need to be explained. Elijah and I did not have deep conversations. Elijah and I did not have. He didn't come with me to work. Elijah and I did not do things together. Right. So that was our relationship was you read my mind and we don't talk about it. Getting into a relationship with him where he needs communication and he also has never been around seven kids, I had to communicate. And that was different for me that before Elijah I was with someone who didn't meet any single possible need I ever had in my whole life. So I didn't rely on him at all. That was never, that was never a thing. So I think that for me it was a little bit of a learning curve because I'm like one thing that he brought up to me, it was always like, like when I was trying to express what I needed. I can't be with someone who. And then I would say whatever it was and he's like, I didn't know you needed that. Like I. How am I supposed to know you're telling me you can't be with me. I don't know that you need that. Cuz you never said it. So he. I'm expecting him to read my mind and I, it. I didn't realize I was even doing that until he said it to me in the car the one day. It's like, Kale, you keep saying you can't be with me basically. And I started crying because I'm like, oh my God. Like I couldn't imagine like, like moving to another state to be with someone and like wanting to start my life with this person. And now all of a sudden I'm with them all the time and they're telling me they can't be with me for several reasons every single day. Like that really opened my eyes to what the I was, what my expectations of him were, which were unrealistic expectations. On the flip side of that, there are so many things where we are, like, we just look at each other, we know we're thinking.

[Isaac Knighton]

The telepathy.

[Kale]

Yeah. So it was a learning curve, I think, for both of us. When you say you had questions. He literally sat me down one day and was like, how many things are going through your brain right now know? And then it's like, well, how do, how do you list that to like, how do you tell someone?

[Isaac Knighton]

To your point, it's like, wait a minute, how am I supposed to know? But you don't even know what you're thinking.

[Kale]

Because I do know, but I don't know how to put it into words.

[Isaac Knighton]

Correct. So it's. I'm supposed to read her mind. But it's like how once I was able to sit her down and express it, like, listen, I. I'm able to run off of communication. And it took me some time to realize that to now when I was able to understand who I am as a person and understand what I want for my partner and understand the mistakes that I've once made. I'm like, babe, just sit down, like, talk, like, what is it? And sometimes, I mean, it's. It's still a little challenging, you know, to where she has to, you know, gather herself and say, okay, listen, can you help out with this? Or I seen that you did this. Can we try it this way? Okay, that's fine. But to be able to read somebody's mind and be able to say, okay, well, I thought this and I thought that, but I was completely wrong. That's what. Where lines get blurred. Because I'm assuming one thing, but I'm completely wrong. And I know assuming it's not the best, but I'm trying to get into a schedule or routine of this, but now it's, whoa, completely different. So kind of stepping out of her comfort zone and being able to communicate. Although whether her, her emotions are heightened or she's just not feeling the best, you know, she has a lot running through her mind. Just talk about it. What's up, what's going on? I can be an Earth year. Talk to me, but it took me a while to get to this point.

[Kale]

Would you do anything different? And like, when you look back at how everything transpired, would you have done anything different?

[Isaac Knighton]

I'm going to say no. And the reason I say that is because to your point, some time ago, in, in the conversation, it was if we waited three years, right? And three years, you know, her and I are official living long distance, living, living, you know, in, in different states and things like that. That's three years waste, wasted. That's three years that we're only FaceTiming and texting and seeing each other once a month. Yeah, once a month because her schedule's busy. My schedule was decent going into it and being able to understand each person and being able to learn and grow and things like that. I wouldn't change anything because to me now I feel as if we're fairly regulated, you know, and we're starting to, starting to understand each other a lot more better.

[Kale]

What are your red flags? Specifically, like Isaac Knighton's red flags.

[Isaac Knighton]

Like what are mine personally?

[Kale]

Like, ones that I should stay away from. Like, you know what I mean? Like, obviously you look like a red flag, but what are your red flags?

[Isaac Knighton]

Sometimes I'm, I'm too independent. So when I'm, when I'm upset or when I'm frustrated. Right. I like to self isolate. So I guess that could also be a red flag. So when I'm self isolating, I'm really just in my head trying to process whatever my emotions are at the time, time and trying to regulate, regulate them accordingly so I don't lash out verbally. So I, I do like to self

[Kale]

isolate and for three days, four days, a week, two. He has not done that to me.

[Isaac Knighton]

No, not to her. For a period of time I was very self centered. Like I have to figure out my life. I have to worry about my emotions. I have to worry about my mental, my emotional, my spiritual health. I have to. Who else is going to do it for me? But as I progress and started to actually understand other people's emotions and feelings, it's like, wait a minute. Like you're not the only person the world doesn't revolve around you. Like, you have to be mindful of how you speak, the tone, the tonality of how you speak, how you word your sentences.

[Kale]

Did you expect for us to connect the way that we did though, or did you know that we would have?

[Isaac Knighton]

Both.

[Kale]

You didn't expect it, but you knew we would have.

[Isaac Knighton]

Like it sounds contradicting. Yeah, but like the first time we hung out.

[Kale]

Out. Oh, I knew.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, but the, but like I didn't expect it. But the first time we hung out it was like.

[Kale]

Then you knew.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, and I'm like, and, and it was just you and I hanging, hanging out. Like it wasn't additional people. So when you and I hung out, it was like, it was just very natural. I felt like your personality was natural, although you were nervous as hell. You nervous as hell.

[Kale]

I don't I don't think I expected to have a full blown relationship, but after the first time we hung out, I think both of us just knew what it was.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Like we just both felt the same way. And then we had a conversation about where we are in our lives. And for me, I think, I don't want to speak for you, but I think for both of us it was like we've been in up relationships before, acknowledged where we've been toxic in the past, and we both wanted the same things moving forward. Like, we don't want to waste time, we don't want to waste each other's time or anybody else's time for that matter. Ready to be like, committed and faithful to somebody. And I feel like we were both on the same page with that. And I don't want to speak for you, but no, that's.

[Isaac Knighton]

I feel like, I feel that 100.

[Kale]

I don't know that there would have been a better time or a worse time. So, yes, while it wasn't ideal in terms of like the timeline of me finding out I was cheated on and, you know, my relationship with Ike, if I move on and I happen to move on with somebody else, like, that's not up for debate. Like, I can't, you cannot deny chemistry and attraction when it's there. Right. Contrary to that, I would say that I did think about what type of person he was before I brought, brought him into the rest of my kids lives. Right.

[Isaac Knighton]

Like, I, it's not like we, we.

[Kale]

I didn't just.

[Isaac Knighton]

And, hey, come meet my kids. It wasn't, wasn't any of that.

[Kale]

It wasn't. Right. And it's not like I met him on Tinder. Right. I'm not saying that there are unsafe people on Tinder, but I didn't just meet him for the first time and introduce him to my kids. Like, I have known him since, since pretty much high school, so. And, and not in depth, obviously, but we did you. Y' all did a background check on him. I already, like, I knew he wasn't lying when he said, you know, I don't have a background.

[Isaac Knighton]

I've never been incarcerated.

[Kale]

I know where. I know most of the places you've worked. I know I've met your entire, almost your entire family. Like, I, it's not like I'm not putting any thought into it. I do understand the concern surrounding my kids.

[Isaac Knighton]

Kids.

[Kale]

I get it. I do. And that's. I'll end the sentence there. I get it. Some people will argue that I'm the same as my mom, but with money. I've read that comment several times. I don't know if there's a way for me to explain it. Like right here, right now in this conversation, I'm thinking back to like my childhood and my mom, the men that my mom had me around. I can't say that I've honestly ever complained about any of my mom's husbands or long term relationships. So I think it impacted me in a way that didn't necessarily set a good example. But my mom's husbands and my mom's like long term boyfriends have. They never hurt me. They only ever helped my mom and they only ever helped me. It was the men in between that she also had me around. Those were the dangerous ones. So like, I think in some ways that's sort of like my justification is like my mom never really had me around. Like her long term boyfriends that were helping her, they never, they never hurt me. It was just the ones in between. So like, I think in my head I've always justified it that way. Maybe like subconsciously. I don't know that I have anything to say about, you know, why I do it. I don't know. But if I'm not happy as a person, a, a woman first, I cannot be a good mom. And I'm not saying that I rely on men for happiness because if we're being honest and you look at my track record, they've all made me miserable in some ways. I've, it's, it's been actually more detrimental and hurtful than, than helpful. I don't, I don't know, I don't have an answer, something that I need to work on in therapy. And I did tell my therapist about him. So we're sort of just getting into that now. But I don't have an answer. But I, I have had conversations with my kids about Ike. I've had my, I've had conversations with my kids about Elijah. I've asked them do they feel safe around Ike. And I know it's, it's going to be controversial because it's like, don't involve kids in adult decisions. But at the end of the day, like, some of my children are old enough to tell me whether they like or dislike a partner. I have. And I think at the point that one of my kids tells me, hey, I really don't like that person. I would reevaluate eight. But I've had private convers and I told him about it. I said, listen, I, I talk to the kids about you. Like, I needed to get some input from them because I want them to feel like they're heard, have an opinion, be able to tell me one on one what they think. And all of them like him. So I don't, I don't know. I've been doing a little spring reset in my closet lately and I'm super excited because I'm focusing more on quality over quantity. Get rid of the clutter and rebuild a capsule wardrobe with quality pieces. Pieces from Quince. Because all of Quince's pieces are well made, they're versatile and easy to reach for every single day. If there's one thing that Alessandra taught me is if you do a timeless wardrobe, you're able to mix and match so much easier. And Quince makes that so easy for me. Their fabrics feel elevated and the fits are so thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. So it makes doing this so much more possible. Quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials like 100 European linen, organic cotton, and super soft denim. If you know me, I'm not a big denim girly, so I'm very particular about my denim and all of these styles. With quinn, start around $50. Their spring pieces are lightweight, breathable, effortless. The kind of things that you can throw on and instantly look put together, which is exactly what I need. And here's the thing. Quince works directly with ethical factories to cut out the middleman. So you're paying for the quality and not the brand markup, which is super important to me. I always want to promote businesses that do that. That so you guys can refresh your spring wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com famous for free shipping and 365 day returns. They're now available in Canada too. Go to Q U I n c e.com famous for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com famous when it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want.

[Isaac Knighton]

Like all the way.

[Kale]

Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. What would you say that you. Where. Where are you at in your life right now? Are you complacent? Content happy? Are you indifferent? Where do. Where are you at right now? Not career wise, but just like in

[Isaac Knighton]

like my overall as a person Yeah, I think I'm happy. Like happiness is number one after that. I mean when you're happy, you're able to make the proper decisions. You're able to have a proper thought process.

[Kale]

I actually watched a TikTok about that regarding motherhood. When a mom's mental health and like their happiness is at the forefront, they're able to make more logical and clear headed decisions as a parent. But when you're stuck in survival mode or you're constantly miserable from being stuck in survival mode, you're not going to make those same decisions that you would if you were content, happy, etc. Well, Kale's selfish. She's only thinking about men. Oh, Kale sheets never get cold. And it's like, okay, that's what they said when you, when you get.

[Isaac Knighton]

He said the bed was still hot.

[Kale]

But I think to be fair, I do think that the, the timeline has been blurred a little bit.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yes it has.

[Kale]

Because I think they thought like Elijah was out and he was in like within days or I had you on the back burner. Actually one of the kids dad said I had him on the back burner when I was with Elijah, which is never. I mean, mean, you can say it. I, I don't even have to, but he can tell you like we didn't have those. I think the last conversation we had, you wish me a happy birthday.

[Isaac Knighton]

I wish I didn't know that she was in a relationship or anything like that. Like her and I, we've platonic.

[Kale]

Like I didn't delete it out of my phone. I wasn't being sneaky about like he wished me happy birthday. I left it there and like literally that was the extent of it. So just for clarity, like never had him on the back burner. It was strictly platonic. Kale, you said, oh God, you would never date a man with children. Why am I with him if he has a daughter? He is the only person. If this didn't work out, I would never date a man with children. I would not. I still stand by that. I think because of the circumstances of the relationship with the mother of his child. Also her living so far out of state, not just a two hour drive across the border, it's like 8, 10, 12 hour drive. And also understanding the nature of their relationship when she got pregnant, I feel, and knowing him for as long as I've known him, I think all contributes to why I would be open minded to dating. Dating him. The only other circumstance I could see myself dating a man with children is if the mom is dead. I have. I have. People are like, I would never take advice from Kale. Well, why? I've been in a million relationships, and I suck at them. And I've learned from every single one of them. And I also. I don't know, I feel like I have experienced enough to give advice that this is what works, this is what doesn't. This is what I did wrong. This is where, you know, dating a man with kids or no kids or this or that. I feel like they think I don't learn anything. And they also think that. That I can't keep a man. I have left every single relationship I've ever been in. Nobody left me. It sort of ties back into the conversation of, I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy of anybody being genuinely interested in me. It's only for the money. It kind of ties into that whole situation. Kale can't keep a man. It's like, men are going to do what they're going to do regardless. And I. I trust that this is who he is, because I've literally. He's never dogged out anybody in his life. Life. To me, anything will say negative that's been said has always been with respect. Like, he's told me things that are not great, but with respect about other people. Like, oh, you know, like any conversation that's come up about previous relationships or toxic behaviors that he's done, he's sort of been said it in a respectful way. But for me, it's like, if we break up or things go south, are you going to run to the Internet? Are you going to go run and tell your families all the. All these negative things about me and never speak positively about me? Are you going to say, you know, negative things about my parenting? Are you going to, you know, say, I'm not a good person, like, those types of things? Because I think so often everyone, with the exception of Elijah, has pretty much dogged me out at some point, for whatever reason they may have. But I've witnessed conversations that he's had with people that are not necessarily in his favor, and he still has never gone on the Internet. I mean, we've been friends on social media, you know, on and off with your accounts and stuff, for, like, 10 years. And he's never posted negatively about his ex or his daughter's mom. And so for me, that's sort of where the loyalty is for, like, my partner. Partner is like, I don't want you to run to the Internet to dog me out or say all these horrible things. When you know that, yeah, there weren't. There was negative things, but, like, they don't outweigh the positive.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah. I want to say this, though. I did speak ill one time on social media about. I'm not gonna say it. You know what it is.

[Kale]

I know, but you were also in your 20s, correct? That was 10 years ago. I'm not worried about what you said 10 years ago.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, but it was one time.

[Kale]

We'll say, like, the last three to five.

[Isaac Knighton]

No, I don't. No, because I'm. I'm a firm believer, like, what you put on social media, like, if you make a Facebook status, you know, my boss fucking sucks. Right. That's, like, why you don't have to do that. So for me, like, I wouldn't really put that negativity on social media. I did one time.

[Kale]

I. I am aware of situations that he easily could have spoke on as well. I'm not saying he was perfect. I'm not defending him, because I've actually defended them in several scenarios.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yes.

[Kale]

But he's never dogged them out. And I think that for me, like. Like, loyalty in that way is like, I have the utmost respect for Elijah in those situations because he could have went online and said all the negative things about me, and he never did. So the respect that I have for him, he will have my loyalty for that. And same for. For Ike.

[Isaac Knighton]

Loyalty for me is just do right by me. Like, in. In every manner, just do right by me. This thing that we have called life. Like, we only get one. Like, I understand that we have to go through hell to get to heaven. Understand where you went wrong in life.

[Kale]

Life.

[Isaac Knighton]

Understand where you need to grow. So once you're at that mental space of I'm done with the bullshit, and you're able to solely say, hey, you know what? Like, I'm going to be going to do right by this person. Like, just do right by me. Just. Just behind closed doors, behind my back, to my face, in all manners, just do right by me. Once if I find out you're not doing right by me now, I go from calm, cool, collective, funny guy singing all the time, shit like that, too. Now it's the. Because you take my kindness for weakness. So ultimately, just do right by me in every manner. That, to me, that's loyalty.

[Kale]

I'm the black cat. He's the golden retriever. He could talk to anyone. He'll always put on a happy face to talk to someone if he has to. He could talk to a fucking wall.

[Isaac Knighton]

I was talking to the security guard at, at the damn soccer game. The one day.

[Kale]

Oh yeah. I mean, I walked in and I'm like, what the. Is this a bromance? Like, I don't know what the is going on. So he's the retriever for sure. Would you agree?

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I mean, I'd rather bring positivity. I'd rather be the, the.

[Kale]

So I'm negative.

[Isaac Knighton]

I'm not saying that. But if you're in one of them moods, I ain't going, I ain't going to lie to you. If you in one of those moods, like when they really say, like, happy wife, happy life, like a man could buy the house, build the house, he could do everything.

[Kale]

But if the wife's not happy.

[Isaac Knighton]

But if the wife is not happy, there is hell within those walls. It's when she opens up her father phone and, and I've said this to her actually before. I understand the platform that you're on. I get that. But the moment that you open up social media and you start scrolling through those likes and comments and you start reading the negativity, you go from, man, I, you know, I, I woke up, had had a decent night's sleep. You know, let's get this, this day on. It'll wreck your whole to, oh my God, why is this person lying about this? Why is, why are these people making false allegations regarding whatever the case may be, all of this negativity? So honestly, I try to be the golden retriever to bring, bring the light and hey, you know, let's, let's be optimistic. Let's look at the good, the, the

[Kale]

positive and that's happened in our relationship. Like people coming forward and saying certain things that I have to second guess because I, at this point, and, and I hate that I have had to bring this up a couple times. Him up a couple times. But like, Elijah shocked not just me, but every person. Like, if Elijah Scott Williams could cheat anybody can. I looked at him when our relationship was outed because people started saying things and even though I was like, okay, what this girl said could not be true because you were physically with me is like, I have to second guess everything. Just second guessing our relationship because of comments or second second guessing my motherhood because of comments or second guessing my friendships because of, you know, and it's, it takes a toll on you because then I, at some point I've, you know this more than anybody. I've had mental breakdowns. Like everyone is against me and everyone secretly hates me.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Like my own People, I just think

[Isaac Knighton]

if she's able to wake up and hit the alarm, right, okay, hey, we're up. It's, it's our day. Day. Time to start the day. I think if she's able to do that instead of, hey, you know, waking up and boom, the Internet, it's detrimental to, to your mental health. I'm going to say mental health first and then emotional health because.

[Kale]

But then my motherhood, it's a trickle down effect because then it's like, okay, well, and now I'm double backing on all of my questioning all my own choices for my kids. I am snapping at them because I'm like, I don't.

[Isaac Knighton]

You can't regulate your emotions.

[Kale]

You're just so lost. Yeah. And so, so, like I, I would say that that whole situation so, so closely after I found out that Elijah cheated on me, those two things flip my world upside down. And, and it all was because of social media. Because had they come to me directly and said something right, like, that's one thing, but social media, I mean, it's a blessing and a curse, truly.

[Isaac Knighton]

It's more negative than positive. That's how I see it. I mean, but it also depends on, I guess, you know, who you follow and things like that. But if I just look, look at the overall, it's more negative for me. Like, giving up social media is easy as I don't care about it.

[Kale]

Like, but I also, I make money on social media, but it's my livelihood.

[Isaac Knighton]

It's your, it's your job. I'm gonna say it's your life.

[Kale]

Thankfully, now I do have a team behind me that could in theory, post everything so I never have to get on. I have, I have decreased the amount of time I'm on. Those three to five minutes that I'm on is enough to wreck my day. It's not like in those three to five minutes, it's solely positive and it's,

[Isaac Knighton]

it's ruining her day. And I'm over here going retriever.

[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

it feels like such a natural way to create. And I have so much control over my website. I can just tell Aria, my AI agent to create whatever I'm imagining in my head.

[Kale]

Or I can click anywhere on my site and change things myself.

[Isaac Knighton]

Try it for [e-mail] Harmony that's wix.com Harmony the first thing that you do, the alarm's off. It's you look at. Okay, hold on. You look at your text. After you look at your text, it's social media, so it doesn't matter what platform it's on. Like you're going from. Okay, do I have missed calls? Text message, whatever. Cool. Social media, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram.

[Kale]

Are you in this for Kale? For Clout for money. Mixture of both.

[Isaac Knighton]

I'm in it for her, honestly. So money I can give two shits about. Honestly, I can hold my own clout. I can give two shits about clout. But I've expressed that to her a lot of times because back to the social media thing, right? She. She'll get fake messages from burner accounts and things like that. And, you know, she second guesses things and I just have to provide as much reassurance that I can. It's like, I don't ask you for anything. Like, financially, I don't ask you for anything. I can give two shits about clout. I'm not saying, hey, post us online. Post.

[Kale]

No. But I think that sometimes in my position, like, somebody doesn't have to ask for those things for it to be what they're in it for. Right. Like, I don't know how to say no to people.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah.

[Kale]

So someone just can mention to me, like, oh, I really liked the perfume you were wearing. And I'm like, oh, here, you can have it. Like, that's the type of person I am. And I. It definitely comes from a place of trauma. It's like, like, you know, I think that. And that was something I've said to you, but I'm saying it here on this episode is like, you don't have to ask for those things for that to be what you're in it for.

[Isaac Knighton]

That's how I take it, though. Like, if I wanted something, I would ask for.

[Kale]

And I get that. But I think for maybe Alessandra, myself is like, you don't have to.

[Isaac Knighton]

I, I understand that. I mean, not to veer off the question on myself, but I. I've been around her long enough to be able to pinpoint certain individuals who, who are in her life that can use her for clout or use her for the. Hey, you know, I just want to be in your presence because I know what can come from it. For me. No, I just. It's her that's, That's. It's her. Like, I just wanted her. Want her as a person, not anything that comes with the perks. There we go. I don't care about the perks. It's just her. I don't expect anything. Anything. Maybe that's what it is. Like, I don't expect anything.

[Kale]

I don't. I. I don't think that even him saying that would. People will still believe that because you can say that all day. And I told him that that's something that I repeat to him.

[Isaac Knighton]

All the time.

[Kale]

It's like he'll, you know, try to reassure me. But like, it's like people say that to me all the time. People tell me all the time, I just want you. I just want you. I just want you. And that's great to hear, but like at the end of the day, like, you know that people could say that till they're blue in the face and they, that is exactly what they're doing is using me. And he said it to me not too long ago. He's like, you're second guessing this, aren't you? And I said, yeah, yeah, because I don't know what you could tell me that your intentions are me.

[Isaac Knighton]

We could, we could be together, engaged, married for 20 years and still every day she's going to think, well, I

[Kale]

mean, if you look at the track record so far, it's like that is essentially what's happened.

[Isaac Knighton]

But what can these people gain from you?

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Isaac Knighton]

And I didn't come into this with an expectation to gain anything or, or take or any. It was just when we hung out and we were in each other's presence with no friends, no commentary, and it was just us. And I was able to pick up on her at that time. It was a golden retriever energy. She had that golden retriever energy. That energy that honestly, I'm used to giving, not receiving. When she gave me that, that personality and I was like, yeah, this is it. I only want you for you and that personality and, and the vibes, the positive vibes. Because I've been in a lot of instances where I just felt a lot of negativity coming my way. And for her it was just her being, her. Her being witty, her being.

[Kale]

You think I'm witty?

[Isaac Knighton]

Depends on the day. But her being, honestly, there's something like. She asked dumb questions too. I think it's funny like. Like, what if I was a worm? Would you love me?

[Kale]

I did not ask you that. But would you, would you use me for bait for your fish?

[Isaac Knighton]

No, cuz I fly fish. So you'd just be in the container.

[Kale]

Oh, so you'd keep me?

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah. Keep you.

[Kale]

It goes back to the conversation about I'm not worthy. I am not worthy for anybody, for anything other than what I can provide or give to them.

[Isaac Knighton]

What can I gain from.

[Kale]

It's never been like, you know, I really care about you as a person. And, and also it's always the people that would never do it in return. So that's hard because, you know, I think about even like my exes that I've invested in. If the roles were reversed, they would not have done half the that I offered or tried to do for them. And it's weird because I think it also depends on the partner that I'm with too. Like, if you asked all my exes and Ike what their perspective is on that alone, I think they would all have a different say based on what I have been able to provide for them and what the confidence level is. Because I think it also depends on the person I'm with too. For the short time that we've been together, I would say the first half was like a big learning curve for both of us. And more recently, he just as is starting to do things without me having to ask. Like he's sort of anticipating the needs that are coming. I. One morning, this is my perspective on it. If it happened differently then you can say this. But like I just remember one morning I like I, maybe my alarm went off, maybe it didn't. I don't know know. He got up and I, I stayed asleep and lunches were packed, kids were in the car to go to school. Like he did it and I woke like I got out of bed and I didn't, I don't know if I didn't realize what time it was. I don't, I don't know what happened that morning. But all of it was done and he was already ready to go out the door with the kids. So it's like he's sort of anticipating whatever what happened.

[Isaac Knighton]

Why didn't I get up hers retired girly. I, I just really try to just put my best thoughts forward and say, you know, hey, today, what can I help out with? Where. Where do I feel is an area that is in need versus I know that this is already taken care of or I'll get to this, but this is the priority first.

[Kale]

Like last night for example, we were talking about who was going to go to Elliott's play. Well, I bought a lot of tickets because I didn't know who was going. I didn't know what the situation was until closer to the play. And he said to me, well, I'm not going. I have to take Creed to some. And it was just made me feel good to know that he was just like taking initiative. He was just going to do it. And like, obviously he's not thrilled that he's missing out on what Elliot has going on. But like it's nice to know that he was just already bridging the gap. So even if we changed plans, he Thought already two steps ahead.

[Isaac Knighton]

And I know I said earlier, like, this shit is easy to, to you. It's like it's chaos. But for me, it's like everybody has their place. But for me, it was just coming in and trying to understand, you know, each individual's personalities. So once I was able to understand everybody's personalities and try to anticipate what's next and things like that, it was like some people might fold. For me, I, I've just, I was raised on chaos. I wasn't raised with, you know, being, being heard as a kid. I wasn't raised as, you know, hey, there's a, there's a problem. Let's sit down and fix it. A lot of things for me were swept under the R drug. We're not going to talk about happened, but it never happened. Whatever.

[Kale]

So we actually have really similar childhoods. Yeah, I'm not saying that that makes him qualified, but I think he understands it at a different level because, like, when I think about, like, my kids, dads, I asked him to his face, like, it doesn't bother you that I have kids by four men? And he was like, no, I come

[Isaac Knighton]

from a whole blended family. So, like, I'm the youngest of six, her having seven, I'm like, but the dad, dads.

[Kale]

The fact that I had four kids, dads didn't bother you?

[Isaac Knighton]

No, that's. To me, that's fine. To circle back, why I feel I'm best qualified is like, I just feel like I've, I've lived this already. So me being able to have soft conversation with kids, have soft conversations with, you know, the boys who are slowly turning from boys to men at some point, trying to give guidance, guidance, trying to give soft opinions on things, it's just second nature. So the quote, unquote, chaos isn't necessarily chaos. It's. I don't know, the norm. For me, at least you have a good sentence or quote that you say, and I thrive in chaos. Right. That's what, that's what you state. So. But there's like, the reality of it is you're good at managing the chaos but thriving in it.

[Kale]

I would. Well, when I say chaos, I'm talking about all the appointments, all the sports, all the things that I'm fine with. It's the mental load that I'm not thriving in unmedicated or medicated. With the amount of children that I have, if it's one or two kids, maybe you don't have to do that. But we're talking blended households.

[Isaac Knighton]

Seven of them things. I never imagined myself having kids. Like, I like the idea of it, but when all was said and done, I. I didn't think that I would actually have kids. Coming from a. A blended family. Right. And just seeing a lot of things and experiencing a lot of things. So I didn't. I didn't really think having kids was for me. So then I started working with kids, understanding. So I, you know, I used to coach football, and from coaching, I'll say coaching allowed me to really gain a soft spot. And then working with kids was. Was another soft spot. So I think growing up, not wanting kids, it was like, no. But then as I started to progress and really started to mentally mature, it was like, okay, cool, I could do this.

[Kale]

And then when you started working with kids, then you. Your daughter's mom.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah. So then, you know, obviously I have a daughter. So for me, it was like, okay, cool, it's my time. You know, I'm. Time to buckle down, do what the hell I gotta do. It's not just me anymore. You know, I got. I got a plus one. And obviously, you know, things didn't work out as discussed at that time, but now it's really just trying to make sure the family underneath this household is taken care of, you know, from babies on up. So having kids with Kaylin Ray, I told her, you know, I want to go about it correctly. I would like to have a wife. From there, the discussion of children, but I don't want to be one of these people out here who has AS, 2, 3, 5, 10 baby moms. I don't want that. I've. I've learned and have grown. So at this point, it's. I want to do this the right way.

[Kale]

So would you say you're open to having kids, but it's not a deal breaker? Would you say that?

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, I'm open to it. Like, I'm. I'm app. I'm open to it. I just want to go appro. Like, do it the right way. I don't want to be 50 years old, have five baby moms, 12 kids. Like, I don't want to do that. I. I want to have a wife,

[Kale]

not me, with four baby dads. But to be fair, I wanted, like, I tried with all of them.

[Isaac Knighton]

So, like, you tried for the family aspect that. So ultimately, like, you wanted to settle down and build. Yeah, that's where I'm at. I want to settle. Well, we're. I'm settled, but I want to build. I want to continue to learn each other. Daily and, and things of that nature. But I want to have a wife. I want to. I don't want to just have a baby, mom.

[Kale]

It's not a, a deal breaker for me in any way, shape or form. But I, I think that when you fall in love with someone in a real way, naturally you want to procreate with them. And so it's one of those things where, like, I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't. If I said, oh, I didn't think about having a child with him. Right. Like, it's not. I'm in a place in my life where, like, if it happens, it. Like, like if we would. One, we would have to go through ivf and two, like, if it didn't happen, it, I would be fine.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah. Like, it's, it's not like, oh, well, if we don't have a child, the relationship's over. Nothing. No, like, for me, if we go about it the right way, cool.

[Kale]

But for me, I, I don't necessarily see a right way because I've been married and that didn't work out. And then.

[Isaac Knighton]

How old were you?

[Kale]

21. So I was 20 when I got married.

[Isaac Knighton]

It doesn't really count. Like, you were still a kid.

[Kale]

Also fair. That's.

[Isaac Knighton]

That is bad, like, to be fair, like, you're still a. Yes, you're an adult.

[Kale]

But I actually, we had a convers recently and I was just like, it's crazy how he learned, like, so obviously he has a daughter and he saw how that all worked out. Right. And he never did that again. You know, after that. He was in, you know, his on and off relationship for eight years and never had a child with her. Right. I never learned that, like, I want to be loved so bad in such a genuine way that I was going against my better judgment and going against all the red flags that I saw because I, I think people look at it as like, kale, kids can. Can't keep a man. But for me, it was like, I just wanted a family so bad that I was willing to do whatever it took. And then it didn't work out for me. And so I, that's, in my opinion, that is, I didn't learn the first, second or third time, and then the fourth time was really just whiplash, to be honest. And so I said to him, like, it's crazy how you learned the first. Like, you never put yourself in that position again. But for me, I kept putting myself in that position because what I want, wanted at that time.

[Isaac Knighton]

I realized that when I was going through a lot of things. I didn't want to feel like that again, didn't want to do it. I didn't want to feel like no matter what I was doing, it wasn't good enough. At that point, it was like, isaac, you've put yourself in this position, learn from it.

[Kale]

Where I did not learn over and over and over. And the idea, I was like, sort of living in denial, like, okay, like, there's no way this one won't work out. You know what I mean? So for him, it was like, I don't want to feel like this again. I'm not putting myself in that position where I was like, oh, this time it'll work out.

[Isaac Knighton]

Like, I literally remember, like, the emotions I was going through, and it was like, this is not good. I just knew, no, what I'm going through right now, like, this too shall pass, but learn. And I. And I want to say shout out to, you know, people who were in my life at that time, you know, who were very positive, you know, helping me with. I was stressed. You know, my mental health wasn't the best best. My brothers definitely helped me out. You know, my old man, grandfather, you know, my mother helped me out at that time. So I was harboring a lot internally and. And it did fester a lot, but I was able to at least vent to them, and they were able to provide me with, you know, some. Some positive feedback regarding, you know, the conversations that we were having having. To me, it's like, cool. Like, I've never done this, so I'm experiencing a lot that was taken from me. You know, a lot of people are very opinionated regarding, you know, how my daughter's mother and I, how our relationship is. They're very opinionated. And, you know, a lot of people, they would try to spark a fire, and then I react to it. And then while they're sparking that fire, here I am just feeding all of that energy out at. At this point, you know, it's just like, I knew, knowing what I know now, you know, when my daughter was born, I would have been okay. You know, I. I know at the time, finding out that I was going to be a dad, you know, I was extremely happy. To me, it was like, okay, it's. It's time, you know, it's time to man up, you know, and. And I was working two jobs at the time, working 13, 14 hours a day, just trying to make sure, you know, I'm doing what I have to do on my part. So being in her kids lives make me. And this is every day. Like this isn't just a one time thing. It's just how can I be that support for not only her, but the babies, the kids? How can I be that person to comfort them in when they're upset? How can I be that person to offer advice or if I was in that scenario, what would I do? How can I try to do my part to make sure that what I'm doing, you know, it's, it's. I would have been able to do with my daughter if the situation was different.

[Kale]

Like you mentioned wanting a wife. Is marriage something that you guys have talked about, discussed? Is that something like you both want. I know pretty recently Kale has been very much on the I want to be a wife train.

[Isaac Knighton]

That, that was discussed very early in the relationship. We, we've gone through the, the relationship, failed relationships. We've gone through the, we're talking stages of people in the interim of relationships. We've, to me at least, like, we've had our fun, quote, unquote fun. Right. We've lived, we've learned, we've accepted where we went wrong. But now it's time to make changes. So at this point, like, I don't want a baby mom. Obviously, you know, I understand the IVF route and things like that, but like, I don't want a baby mom. Like, I want to be able to grow old with somebody who I'm able to.

[Kale]

Not too old though.

[Isaac Knighton]

Like, I want to grow like 85. Nice. 90. I just want to grow old with somebody like that revolving door, the temporary happiness or gratification that only lasts so long. Like, I want to be able. And I said this to her. I was like, I want to see every phase of your moon. I want to see when you're the happiest. I want to see when you're the saddest.

[Kale]

I feel like you've seen all of that.

[Isaac Knighton]

I have, I have at this point. But initially, like that, that's what was discussed. Like, I don't want to. You're not going to be that same person that I met because the same person that I met was the happy. Go luck. There's a little chaos, but life's good. No, I know. Know behind closed doors, behind that, that smile, behind that happiness. No, like all that. I want to know who you are. That was discussed. And, and to me it was just like, I don't, I don't want to date somebody for six years. Seven. Yeah. Just to kill time. No, I'm, I Want to build.

[Kale]

I think we've already both done that. That was. I just to piggyback off what he said, like, those things were already sort of discussed, like, early on.

[Isaac Knighton]

Yeah, we.

[Kale]

Well, live and learn.

[Isaac Knighton]

Learn. I mean, ultimately, like, you're not born with a blueprint for life. The wisdom that I'll say I have now, when the stove was hot, I had to touch it. I. I couldn't. I. I couldn't take what somebody else was telling me. I had to touch it. The wisdom that I have now, if I was 18 years old with this wisdom, I'd probably be a doctor or some. But, you know, ultimately, marriage is a goal that I have. You know, that revolving door. It's when all said and done, once that instant gratification is over and done with, like, you're lonely, you're sad, but

[Kale]

do you think that you want to. You're thinking about marriage with me specifically, or you're thinking about marriage in general? Because that's the other side of it

[Isaac Knighton]

is like, so with your personality is. Is what I love about you the most. So marriage. It wasn't marriage in general. Like, I like the idea of it. Like, yo, like, I would love to have a wife, but once I got to know you as a person.

[Kale]

Don't. I'll start crying.

[Isaac Knighton]

Don't. You better not. Once I got to know, like, you as a person, I was like, like, she'll be my wife. Because I ultimately, the wittiness, the humor, the great singing, the. The. The openness of how open she is. Take me or leave it. You know, that is somebody that I love. Like, I don't want somebody to try to paint the picture that. That life's great. Once I was able to continue to learn her, continue to understand her. It's like, you don't find many people that you really vibe with. You don't find many people that you really can sit back and just chop it up with. You don't find many people that are. Take me as I am. This is who I am.

[Kale]

It takes me a long time to learn from my mistakes. Like, goes. Ties. Ties back into the conversation of, like, repeating the same mistake over and over again. Having four kids, die dads. And I start to believe that I like. It really is just the money. Like, it's really just what people can get from me. And it's like, because of the nature of this relationship and. And how it started in a way that was not ideal is also like, okay, well, I also have to take that into consideration. I also have to Take into like just all of it. Like damaged goods. Right. Like I'll always be viewed as teen mom damaged goods. Can't keep a man always being cheated on. Yeah, I've cheated too, too. And so I think that a lot of it is just like, you don't feel worthy. Yeah, I don't know how someone like me could feel worthy. When I look at like big picture, the relationships with my kids dads, there has never ever, ever, ever been a. Like I. I put specifically Javi and Elijah on like this pedestal. They've even them. They've never done that for me. So it's like, it's hard for me when it's like, okay, I'm reading all the negative comments about myself. My kids dads have never thanked me for anything. Oh, I'll say Elijah thanked me for the kids. Right, right. Like, so those are the people that I should. That I was supposed to. That were supposed to love me. At some point it's hard for me to picture myself as like. Cuz I. Like I said earlier, like, I don't cook. I have a team of people that do things for me. And so it's like, what do I. What am I really offering him? Or what was I really offering Elijah? I wasn't really offering them anything. So it's like, am I worthy? Take everything away, take my team away, take my money away. I don't have anything to offer.

[Isaac Knighton]

I try to provide a lot of comfort and reassurance and I try to do my part and it's a within thing. So all. All I try to do is just hear her out and just be that emotional support that she needs at that time. Because it's hard. I get it right myself. My past ain't the best. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've associated myself with people I shouldn't have associated myself with. I chose instant gratification at times. There was a point in time for me where I was able to buckle down and just look within. And although there's a lot of negativity that's put out on me about social media, on social media. Excuse me. I know who I am as a person, but it took me a while. And for her I feel bad because it's like, you know, she was a kid on tv, she. She sacrificed a lot and. And her. To me it's like, obviously, you know, she was in a relationship with Joe when she was younger, things like that, but she was a kid having a kid.

[Kale]

But I feel like in some moments I do know who I am, am like I think overall like I have up. Deeply, deeply, deeply up. And I know that. But I think overall at my core like I am a good person. But that doesn't, A good person doesn't qualify you as worthy to be a wife. I only know how to sell myself as like a businesswoman or a mom. I don't know how to sell myself as a wife.

[Isaac Knighton]

Can I give you my perspective?

[Kale]

No, because I'll cry.

[Isaac Knighton]

Okay, so I'll tell you anyways my perspective of you. Okay. Number one, mom first. Okay. You, you literally, literally put your kids first no matter what they say on the Internet. Right? Because they don't see this day in and day out. They don't, they don't see the 6:00am wake ups and 11:00 clock at night just, just wrapping up. They don't see straight from school, a homework, sports.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Isaac Knighton]

So my, my viewpoint, my viewpoint is you're a mother first. That, that to me is the best quality that you have is your mother like she's a mother mother like she makes sure her kids go for nothing. And, and another thing is I can't cook a homemade meal from scratch. Right. That's great. Cooking to me isn't a big thing. The, the biggest thing is you're a mother first. And I love the way that you are a mother. I understand things that happen behind the scenes. I understand the, the stress that you're through day in and day in and day out. I'm able to understand your, your personalities. I'm able to understand, I'm able to understand sometimes your thought process. I'm able to understand you for who you are. Being able to cook doesn't disqualify you to be a wife. No. There, there are certain reasons why a man will exit a relationship. Personality is top two. I'm being real person. If you are a Debbie Downer. If you're a person who just so negative. If you're a person who doesn't bring positivity. If you're a person who is just always who can't take accountability. If you're a person who is deflecting everything, your personality can make or break a relationship. And I'm not saying you, but just in general for you. Your personality is why I'm here. It's you as an individual. You're literally like. We see eye to eye so much. It's a bit scary. I wasn't prepared for anything to be fair.

[Kale]

Like you weren't prepared for a relationship?

[Isaac Knighton]

No, no. I wasn't prepared like to Be outed, right? I wasn't prepared for that. I wasn't prepared for, you know, a lot of the behind the scenes things that happen. You know, I just stepped into the. So if the relationship and no, I'm not going to be prepared for it because there's going to be a lot of things. There's going to be a lot of taken from this. They're going to clip it, right? And they're going to say, oh, this, that, blah blah, blah. But no, I'm not going to be prepared. This shit's going to be all over the place and they're to going, going to screen record it or they're going to clip it, they're going to throw it up on TikTok. They're going to do all of that unnecessary shit. Hell no, I ain't going to be prepared. Absolutely not. There's going to be so many opinions and so many lies. Well, there have been so many lies and so many opinions that were told about a lot of the shit that has transpired that it's. I'm not even going to have the mental capacity to try to defend myself because I didn't even do it the first time. But I'm not. I don't give a fuck about what public eye has to say. I'm not. Are you?

[Kale]

No. I'm never ready. I'm never ready.

[Isaac Knighton]

See you later, alligator baby.

[Kale]

I wait for you. Thank you. Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it. And we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on kalelowry.com. and if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else.

[Isaac Knighton]

One of the biggest threats in your

[Kale]

life are the ones you don't see coming. We may be raising the first generation

[Isaac Knighton]

who fall in love with a church chat box before the real person. And what if the way you think isn't even your own?

[Kale]

If I make you think something is

[Isaac Knighton]

popular, I can get you to accept it. Real conversations, tackling the issues shaping our lives. You're feeding this to your family. It could happen to your kid. I've been to way too many funerals. The Dr. Phil podcast, available now on YouTube and all podcast platforms.

[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

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[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

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[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

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[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

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[Kale]

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[Isaac Knighton]

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