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- [00:00]
Elliot
Just riding.
- [00:02]
Kale
Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain K, and you're listening to Barely Famous.
- [00:23]
Gail
Moving on. Can you talk about the first person that you shared that you were gay with that was not Bomb. Talked a little bit about this, so I would love for you to.
- [00:34]
Kale
I was not the first person that he confirmed he was gay to.
- [00:37]
Elliot
No.
- [00:38]
Kale
I think that I always knew, but.
- [00:41]
Elliot
I mean, it's better to hear from me, though.
- [00:43]
Kale
Yeah, of course. And, like, if you never told me, also, I wouldn't have cared either, because I. You would have brought your first boyfriend home, and I've been like, all right, cool. So, like, you never had to come forward and tell me.
- [00:53]
Elliot
Yeah, it was actually. I think that in the back of my mind. Don't cry. In the back of my mind, it was always thinking about you. It was always, like, telling other people is leading up to telling you. Like, you were the person that, like, was. You were the most important person to tell. You know, why I would have loved.
- [01:21]
Kale
You if you never told me.
- [01:23]
Elliot
I know, but, like, I don't know. Like, I just. I feel like it so important to tell you. Like, it just felt right to me. And, you know, like I said earlier, like, you're the only one I need, so I feel like it's just. It's a. It's a confidence thing, you know? Like, it makes me feel good to be able to tell the one person that I'm so close to, you know? And, I mean, even as my mom, like, I think it's just very important, you know, I just didn't.
- [02:00]
Kale
You didn't. You don't have to make an announcement. You didn't have to have that conversation.
- [02:04]
Elliot
And I know, but I feel like it just feels right. As my mom, I feel like you.
- [02:13]
Kale
Were robbed out of coming out. If that's. What. If that was the path that you wanted. Yeah. Twice.
- [02:20]
Elliot
Twice.
- [02:20]
Kale
Two different. When you first. First. First confirmed or. Or shared. And then. And then again now.
- [02:27]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [02:28]
Kale
Your private life coming out was robbed from you, and then your public coming out was also robbed from you, in my opinion.
- [02:36]
Elliot
Yeah. I. The first person I told was a ex friend of mine, and he did not take it well. I told him and he went to our whole class and told everyone. This was in, like, fifth grade, mind you. So, I mean, looking back on it now, I'm like, okay, this was kind of like, I could see this happening, but, like, from that perspective, from me as a fifth grader, it hurt me because I was like, I Built up the courage to tell you something, and you took it and kind of ruined that for me, you know, which is.
- [03:27]
Kale
Hard because Obviously now at 15, you understand that, like, kids don't understand the importance of that. They don't understand the courage it took for you to tell him. He doesn't understand.
- [03:38]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [03:39]
Kale
The fact that he, like, puts you in a really dangerous position. Like, he doesn't understand the capacity of what that meant for you to tell him.
- [03:47]
Elliot
Right.
- [03:47]
Kale
And so do we give him grace? You know what I mean?
- [03:50]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [03:52]
Kale
And so.
- [03:53]
Elliot
And it sucks, but I mean, like, nobody has that maturity level at that age. So, I mean, for me to realize it at that time, it's hard to kind of find the people that understand. Nobody's gonna understand, you know, So I think that was the hardest part. I mean, I wasn't fully out until seventh grade.
- [04:20]
Gail
Elliot, are you comfortable sharing a bit about what happened after you found out that what you had shared with your ex friend was shared amongst others?
- [04:31]
Elliot
Oh, what? I told you about the note.
- [04:33]
Kale
I thought the note was funny.
- [04:37]
Elliot
So I wrote him a little letter. And out of anger, actually, now that since we were talking about speaking on impulse, and my substitute teacher was, like, reading the note as I was writing it and pulled me to the side and was like, why are you writing this? Who are you buying this to? And so we. Yeah, it was like a whole situation. We had to, like, go down to guidance and stuff. And that's. That's how my mom found out.
- [05:14]
Gail
What were your thoughts like when you found out what had transpired in full with the whole situation? What were your thoughts as his mom and feelings and like, what was that like?
- [05:27]
Kale
So Joe went and picked up Isaac from school and called me and told me about the note, and you were in the back seat, and, you know, your dad sent me a picture of the note, and I laughed. I thought it was funny. I was like. Like, he should suck a dick.
- [05:43]
Elliot
I did tell him that he like.
- [05:46]
Kale
You, and I thought it was funny. I also already knew you were gay, so, like, I didn't give a. I was just like, how dare him. Obviously, I. I was upset that a kid did that to you. Obviously. Now I'm like, well, he was in fifth grade. Like, kids don't understand the weight of their. What they're doing.
- [06:01]
Elliot
It's kind of.
- [06:02]
Kale
I was upset because I didn't know how. Like, I wasn't there with you and your dad, and so it was hard for me. I didn't know what was going on. I would imagine that that Was probably a time where you felt sort of lost and didn't really know where to go because you didn't know. Am I getting in trouble for the note? Am I. Am I gay? Am I not gay? Do I have the support of my dad? And now my dad has to tell my mom? Is my mom going to react the same way? So, like, it was probably a very confusing, emotionally charged time, and so I was upset because I couldn't be there with you. I think you were looking for validation and to know that everything was going to be okay.
- [06:41]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [06:42]
Kale
And I don't necessarily feel like you got that.
- [06:44]
Elliot
I didn't. But it wasn't your fault. Obviously wasn't your fault. But I think another thing that sucked was the anxiety of happened, like, literally the last week of school. It was a Thursday. And, like, I didn't know what to expect from the next year, you know? Like, you know, and I was just so terrified to see what that looked.
- [07:18]
Kale
Like, because you're gonna go the whole summer without seeing a lot of these people. Are they going to remember? Are they going to treat you differently? Are they going to think differently? Are they going to talk about you? Are you. Is it going to be forgotten? Like, yeah, I would imagine there's some anxiety with.
- [07:31]
Elliot
With that and that. That was the worst year for me, sixth grade, like, after that, did not have any real friends.
- [07:38]
Kale
The following year, when you went into sixth grade, do you think that that changed? You said that you didn't really have friends that year. Do you think that it was because of the way that you were forced out at that time?
- [07:48]
Elliot
Maybe because. But at the same time, I also just didn't have a place. Like, I didn't know who to hang out with, what to do. Like, I just didn't. I didn't really know myself, you know, so it was hard to fit in with a group of people. So I think that also ties in with it.
- [08:10]
Gail
You talked about that year being your worst year.
- [08:14]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [08:15]
Gail
How has your confidence level grown since then?
- [08:18]
Elliot
I. Yeah, I've definitely been more confident. It. It's a learning experience, you know, it's. Even though it's not how I would have wanted it to go, it also helps. It helped me grow and learn about myself, and I'm more aware of who I am and who I prefer to be around and what I'm comfortable with and just, oh, like, who I identify as. Like, who I am as a person, you know, and it is shown character and it builds character.
- [09:02]
Kale
You're aware that a lot of people, your age do not have the level of self awareness that you have. Right.
- [09:07]
Elliot
I learned that along the way.
- [09:10]
Kale
There's a lot of people, there are a lot of adults my age that don't have the level of self awareness that you have. I just think that you're pretty logical, in touch with your feelings, in touch with your emotions. Challenge societal norms, challenge, you know, popular beliefs that a lot of kids your age, I think, just learn from their parents and pass down. And that's part of the problem.
- [09:35]
Elliot
I agree. There's no room for them to speak for themselves or push back or. Yep. Ask questions or set boundaries and create a space for themselves.
- [09:45]
Kale
Has public how you will be perceived to other people, has that influenced your decision to come out or to talk about your sexuality or to be on social media? Be on social media in general. Like, are you worried about what people think of you to the point that you will or will not post certain things?
- [10:02]
Elliot
Yes and no. I. What people say don't really affect me. Like, you're stupid for saying that, but, like, if someone's like, trolling, like, or saying something like, it doesn't really bother me. I mean, there are certain things that bother me, but, like, like when people talk about my family, like, about you, or about my relationship with my dad, or, like, just let me speak about it myself. Like, you know, like, you don't need to. You don't need to say any of that.
- [10:37]
Kale
You don't need to make assumptions.
- [10:38]
Elliot
Yeah. Like, there's no reason. And you don't know. You don't know me. You know, like, you see me on social media and whatever, but you don't hear me. You don't know who I am, you know, unless I tell you. Unless I show you.
- [10:58]
Kale
Right.
- [10:58]
Gail
You know, Kale, what has it been like for you to look through your lens and watch Elliot navigate this, not just in both of your private lives at home, but also knowing there's public eyes on him as well?
- [11:10]
Kale
I think Elliot does a good job not putting a whole lot of his personal life out there. And so there hasn't been a whole lot for me to be worried about outside of, obviously, his sexuality and what target that puts on his back. He's more mature than I think a lot of people maybe expected from me to have a son like that. So I. The only thing that I've truly worried about is obviously, like, creeps, but also people trying to out him this whole time. He doesn't really. You're not really putting your personal business out there. It's more like, asl and, like, funny things. So I haven't really had to.
- [11:47]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [11:48]
Kale
Guide him too much in that way.
- [11:50]
Elliot
And I also think that with my level of maturity, I think I learned that from you.
- [11:56]
Kale
Like, what not to put out there.
- [11:57]
Elliot
I think I learned from being on the show. Like, and, you know, I have eyes, so I guess I just see how other people. Like, I observe how other people operate and how other people are and what other people do and what not to do, you know? So I kind of like. It gives me an idea of what not to do.
- [12:22]
Gail
Gail, you already knew, and you've said it a couple times, like, who Elliot was from a very young age. Did you ever need him to come out to you? You know? And for Elliot, what was that like, knowing that your mom already knew? I mean, she's known since before I met you and you were two.
- [12:40]
Elliot
I don't know. I just. I was like, you know what? That makes sense, you know, like, of course you knew, you know, But I think that, like, leaving, leading up to that point, you made me feel so comfortable around you. Like, I could have told you at any point, you know, you didn't have.
- [12:59]
Kale
To tell me at all if you didn't want to.
- [13:01]
Elliot
That, too.
- [13:02]
Kale
You literally did not have to tell. Like, I didn't need an announcement. Didn't need confirmation. As long as you. You telling me made you feel better. Like, if it was for you, that's fine. But, like, I never needed you to make a statement, make an announcement. I never. I never needed that. I just.
- [13:20]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [13:21]
Kale
Want to always have, like, a safe space for you at home, and I want your brothers to always be accepting of it, and I, you know, want there to always just be a safe space. That's really what was important to me. Because at the end of the day, like I said earlier, I'm never going to sever my relationship with you or create any sort of friction in our relationship because of who you love, because that's at the end. It's not. Whether it was a man or a woman, I'm not. It's not my business.
- [13:47]
Elliot
Yeah. And it's not a choice, either.
- [13:49]
Kale
It's not a choice. It's not my business. And when you move out of the house and you live with whoever you're gonna live with and you are raising, you know, I don't want to say family, because if you choose to be childless, that's also fine. But, like, you have a family with, you know, your partner, whether it's a man or a woman, at the end of the day. That does not affect me. And as long as you're happy, like, I don't care. I don't.
- [14:11]
Elliot
So my only child will be a cat.
- [14:15]
Kale
If you want to clean litter boxes for the rest of your life, I.
- [14:19]
Elliot
Mean, it's worth it. It'll be worth it.
- [14:21]
Gail
Okay, Elliot, for you, I know that you had talked a little bit about being bothered by comments of people saying, like, oh, I already knew. How is that different when you hear from people in your personal life who you did come out to, and everyone's like, okay, or, we knew. Or do you feel the same way, or is it a little bit different?
- [14:42]
Elliot
It's definitely different because of the way it's. The tone and how they say it, you know, like, with my mom, it's more accepting, more comfortable. It's. It's a peaceful environment. And. And you're. She says. Or she would say, like. Like, I knew. Like.
- [15:05]
Kale
Like, it's okay. Like, I already knew.
- [15:07]
Elliot
Yeah, exactly. But, like, people on the Internet, they're like. They're like, oh, this is old news. I already knew this.
- [15:14]
Kale
Like, the closet was glass.
- [15:16]
Elliot
Yeah. Like, things like, it's kind of nasty. Kind of. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's more.
- [15:22]
Kale
It's not what you say, I guess, how you say it.
- [15:25]
Elliot
Yeah, I agree.
- [15:26]
Gail
And also, it sounds like also just the relationship with you, with the person who might say it.
- [15:31]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [15:32]
Kale
Was there anyone in your life that you told that was surprised, that was, like, shocked?
- [15:37]
Elliot
The only person I can think of that, like, reacted a little, like, shocked, like, oh, this is, like, new, you know, Like, I may have. Or, you know, it was probably my titi.
- [15:48]
Kale
She.
- [15:48]
Elliot
She took it like, well, obviously, like, she made me feel good about it, like. Like, you did. And I feel very comfortable around her and stuff. But, yeah, I think she was a little. She was a little surprised because, like, you know, we don't see each other as often, so it's hard to, like, catch up, you know? So I think that the time that I told her was. It was shocking, you know? Like, it was just the time that I told her, you know, rather than, like, maybe if I told her in person and had, like, a better conversation about it. I think that the way I told her was just. It might have been shocking for her. Yeah, she's very loving and accepting about it, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're pretty close.
- [16:34]
Gail
You had talked to me about telling her she was the first family member outside of your mom that you told, right?
- [16:41]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [16:42]
Gail
What made you want to. And, like, you shared a little bit about the reaction. Why do you feel like it might have been a little shocking just because you don't talk all the time?
- [16:51]
Elliot
I think it's just like not a regular conversation, you know, like it's something that, it's like serious, you know, like, and you know, like we don't really have those conversations. So I feel like it brung us together really. You know, like, and we were, we were already close. But I feel like for me to be able to build the confidence and tell her, it made us. It made our relationship stronger.
- [17:21]
Kale
Good.
- [17:21]
Elliot
And you know, now I talk to her all the time about like things like that, you know?
- [17:28]
Kale
Yeah.
- [17:30]
Elliot
Or like, not even just about my sexuality. Like, just about like regular day to day things, you know? Or like I'll call her sometimes and I'll be like, oh, you know, I'm good. You know, I'll tell her about my day and like, oh, drama club, things like that, you know?
- [17:49]
Kale
Yeah. So you guys got closer. What about your grandma?
- [17:55]
Elliot
My grandma was. Now I love my grandma to death, you know, but we know. I know. Yeah, yeah, I love her to death. But I didn't. Deaf, deaf. Death. Death.
- [18:10]
Kale
You love her to death.
- [18:11]
Elliot
I keep saying death.
- [18:12]
Kale
I know.
- [18:12]
Elliot
Ugh. Because I used to get those confused. Like when I would used to say death, I would say death.
- [18:19]
Kale
Yeah.
- [18:19]
Elliot
You know, like before I even knew what all that was about, you know.
- [18:23]
Kale
Okay, so you were saying you love your grandma to death.
- [18:25]
Elliot
Yeah, I love my grandma. Death. No, death. I love her to death. But I didn't love how she kind of brought religion into it. Like, she kind of was like, I didn't love how she kind of brought religion into was just very odd to me because before she started talking about that, she asked me about my, like, beliefs. And then she started and I told her that like, I don't really believe. I'm not really spiritual. And she started to bring in. She started to bring God into the situation. And I just thought it wasn't necessary and it wasn't related. And she also kind of mentioned like my I shouldn't go and tell people that I'm gay because I don't know who I am yet. Like, she said it very subtly, like it wasn't direct. But that's what she said. Basically. That's like what she was saying.
- [19:42]
Kale
Did you have to create like a new relationship with her then? Like once she had the knowledge or like once you sort of came out to her, like now you had to rebuild a new relationship with her?
- [19:52]
Elliot
Like, kind of. I think it was just Kind of a setback again. Like, I could tell her I. Like, I won't talk to her really about that or. Well, at the time, I wouldn't. But I mean, now I think that, you know, since I've gotten older and, like, I, Like, I'm still gay. Like, she.
- [20:17]
Kale
Still gay.
- [20:18]
Elliot
She trusts now. I think she. I think she realizes now that, like, I am who I am, and that's not gonna change. So I think it's, like, it's okay now. Like, she won't do that anymore. But I think at the time, it was just hard for her to, like, she didn't know how to approach it.
- [20:38]
Kale
You know, she's also from a different generation. Exactly. She's at a generation. She's from a generation older than me. And so at that time, and I'm not justifying it or excusing it. I don't. I told you my feelings when you originally told me that. But she does come from a different generation, even above me. And so, like, millennials are deconstructing all of this. And, yeah, you know, it might have taken her time to come to terms with it, unfortunately. But your relationship now is great, and you love your grandmother to death.
- [21:09]
Elliot
Yeah, not to death, but I think, like, leading up to the point where, you know, she could come to terms with was very awkward. Like, she would try to, like, talk about it a little bit. It was very awkward considering, like, the conversation that we had. And, like, it would always be her that would bring me up first. You know, I think it was her way of trying to make me feel comfortable around her with it. But it's not her fault it didn't work.
- [21:44]
Kale
Right.
- [21:44]
Elliot
But, I mean, I think it just needed time.
- [21:47]
Kale
Okay.
- [21:47]
Gail
You know, lastly, Elliot, I know you really wanted to talk about how much your mom's support.
- [21:54]
Kale
Oh, my God.
- [21:55]
Gail
And how it's been to have her to help you navigate this and how grateful you are. So I would love to give you the floor to tell your mom how you feel.
- [22:05]
Elliot
I talked about this on the phone with her, and I can already see your tears. Don't cry, please. I already. I talked to her on the phone, and she and Kristen was like, oh, yeah, she's going to cry about this. Like, this was gonna be emotional for you. I just want you to know, and I don't want you to ever doubt that. As much as you love me unconditionally, I love you unconditionally. And you have been my guiding star. You've been my guiding star through this whole thing, throughout my whole Life even. And I am forever grateful for you. And I can't see another world without you.
- [22:53]
Kale
You still have to push me down the stairs.
- [22:56]
Elliot
I can't, Mom.
- [22:57]
Kale
I can't.
- [22:58]
Elliot
No, I can't. I can't do it. I just love you too much, and I can't. I don't know what I'm gonna do for half of my life without you. Like, I don't know, like, I'm gonna be lost. I'm gonna text you when you're dead. I'm gonna te. And I'm gonna say, hey, Mom, I just went skydiving and it was so scary, but I loved it.
- [23:27]
Kale
You'll text me when you your pants.
- [23:28]
Elliot
For the first time. I'm gonna. Yep. And I'm gonna be like, oh, it's like cheddar's. Like, you did that one time. And I, I.
- [23:40]
Kale
You don't have to thank me and you don't have to tell me any of this. Like, you don't owe me any thing. You literally don't owe me anything. I love you unconditionally because that is my job and that child. And when you become a parent, you love your child unconditionally.
- [23:56]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [23:56]
Kale
So.
- [23:57]
Elliot
And I agree. But I feel like you take that extra step to make me feel even more welcome and even more unconditionally loved and more comfortable, and I just, like, you just have helped me grown in so many ways and realize so many things. You just make me feel better about myself and about who I am, you know, like, you just make me feel good at the end of the day. Like, even if we were to fight or bicker about something, like you at the end of the day, I think, like, you know what? This is my mom. And do we fight? I mean, we don't, but, like, I don't know.
- [24:43]
Kale
The last time we got in a fight. Do we ever fight?
- [24:47]
Elliot
No, actually. But, like, I feel like if we were to fight, like, I would think, like, this doesn't affect me. Like, we still have such a close bond that nothing can get in away with that. And like, you've shown me in so many ways that I have you, I have your support no matter what, and you have mine always, you know, always.
- [25:12]
Kale
Ride or fucking die.
- [25:15]
Gail
You just.
- [25:15]
Kale
Guys, they asked for it.
- [25:19]
Elliot
They asked for it and it just slipped out.
- [25:23]
Gail
I am so thankful to both of you for allowing me to be part of this and interview both of you. I'm so proud of you, Elliot. And I hope this is everything that you want it to be.
- [25:34]
Elliot
Is. Is considering everything that has happened. It's the best. It's my best sense of control, you know, And I'm glad it went good about it. Yeah.
- [25:46]
Kale
Is there anything left off the table at this point? Is there anything else that you want people to know or you want to share?
- [25:53]
Elliot
No, I don't think so. I just think if you're in a similar situation, just be yourself. And as a parent, you should love and, like, support your child. You should love and support your child unconditionally, no matter what. And it's important to know who you are and to embrace that.
- [26:14]
Kale
Cuz who you love doesn't really affect anybody else.
- [26:17]
Elliot
Yeah.
- [26:17]
Kale
As long as you're safe and happy. So.
- [26:19]
Elliot
Yep.
- [26:20]
Kale
Thank you for sitting with us on this emotional episode of Barely Famous podcast. We'll see you next week.
- [26:32]
Elliot
Sa.